strider470

Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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7 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Best to stop the IMOCA taking the 16 year old to NYC...

I've heard she signed on for the TOR too, by then she will be old enough...

 

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8 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The one hull with no keel (balast) makes these boats IMO more dangerous than they should be.

The keel is the Main Reason Monos are usually pretty stable propositions. You take that away and they become very unstable & unsafe.

How many monohulls have you seen race without a keel?

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35 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

How many monohulls have you seen race without a keel?

Windsurf much?

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32 minutes ago, Teaky said:

Windsurf much?

Are you really going to call a windsurfer a monohull sailboat?

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10 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The one hull with no keel (balast) makes these boats IMO more dangerous than they should be.

The keel is the Main Reason Monos are usually pretty stable propositions. You take that away and they become very unstable & unsafe.

How dangerous SHOULD they be?

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12 hours ago, dg_sailingfan said:

The one hull with no keel (balast) makes these boats IMO more dangerous than they should be.

The keel is the Main Reason Monos are usually pretty stable propositions. You take that away and they become very unstable & unsafe.

Mono hulls without keels generally have movable ballast which is the crew. That is what they try do do with the movable ballasted foil, but it's not as easy to move as a crew and...the boat is pretty big.

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3 hours ago, Forourselves said:

Are you really going to call a windsurfer a monohull sailboat?

Until you show me a multihull windsurfer, yes.

 

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Mono hulls without keels generally have movable ballast which is the crew. That is what they try do do with the movable ballasted foil, but it's not as easy to move as a crew and...the boat is pretty big.

Not quite, for the last 100 years the Mullet boats have been racing in Auckland with a centre board and internal ballast.

 

51cce9a8-412b-4620-bb3a-a8a00113b0ee-800.jpg

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Not to mention the much bigger flat bottomed scows that used to work the Hauraki Gulf from out of Auckland, the Ted Ashby still doing so, not exactly hjigh performance racers to be sure, but certainly very large sailing monohulls without keels or movable ballast.

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Do not under any circumstance ever Look at how they sail (& race) Thames Barges - no Keel there - and acreage of sail area to boot.......

(I think they qualify as monohulls ;))

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

Not quite, for the last 100 years the Mullet boats have been racing in Auckland with a centre board and internal ballast.

 

51cce9a8-412b-4620-bb3a-a8a00113b0ee-800.jpg

Interesting, thanks, Tabarly with Pen Duick V also had hulls he could ballast. However all these designs had their ballast within the width of the boat. However it's true that I think have have seen somewhere movable ballast on an horizontal ladder where the crew could also walk. Not sure.

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7 hours ago, Forourselves said:

How many monohulls have you seen race without a keel?

O.K., my Tornado doesn’t count, but what about my E Scow? Yep,  I’d say that I’ve seen thousands of monohulls racing without keels.

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9 hours ago, craigj said:

O.K., my Tornado doesn’t count, but what about my E Scow? Yep,  I’d say that I’ve seen thousands of monohulls racing without keels.

It sounds like many are getting confused to assume that a keel is only used for ballast. 

A sailboat can not sail under control or up wind without a keel, centerboard, daggerboard, sideboard, leeboard, foil or whatever you want to call the part of the boat that is in the water and opposes the force of the wind on the sail.  A centerboard on an E-scow is just a retractable keel.  Correct, it has very little ballast, but it is a keel.

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4 minutes ago, Herfy said:

It sounds like many are getting confused to assume that a keel is only used for ballast. 

A sailboat can not sail under control or up wind without a keel, centerboard, daggerboard, sideboard, leeboard, foil or whatever you want to call the part of the boat that is in the water and opposes the force of the wind on the sail.  A centerboard on an E-scow is just a retractable keel.  Correct, it has very little ballast, but it is a keel.

The implication from the original statement was that monohulls required ballasted keels or movable crew for ballast to sail, this clearly ignored the fact that many heavier centreboarders don't require either hence the examples provided...

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9 hours ago, Herfy said:

It sounds like many are getting confused to assume that a keel is only used for ballast. 

A sailboat can not sail under control or up wind without a keel, centerboard, daggerboard, sideboard, leeboard, foil or whatever you want to call the part of the boat that is in the water and opposes the force of the wind on the sail.  A centerboard on an E-scow is just a retractable keel.  Correct, it has very little ballast, but it is a keel.

Yole boat cracking along quite well without to much underwater.

 

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2 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Yole boat cracking along quite well without to much underwater.

 

I now understand what the windward foil arm is for. 

745BD701-027F-4CCC-BFF0-6C89FDFCB87E.png

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On 8/15/2019 at 6:14 PM, Ex-yachtie said:

How dangerous SHOULD they be?

In the hands of BA, very. I saw a dock actually crap itself in fear. 

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On 8/15/2019 at 6:33 AM, Forourselves said:

You can't attract people to the sport by racing around in cruising boats the average person can sail.

Australia's success at the 2012 Olympics led to more kids signing up for learn to sail at our club than we could handle. While a 49er might take a bit of experience, a 470 or Laser can be sailed by pretty much anyone.

It seems to me people are attracted to sports they think they can play and afford to participate in.

From my limited experience in a local club, the America's Cup has had zero impact on getting novices to sign up for our learn to sail program. I don't expect that to change because of the AC75s, but who knows?

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3 hours ago, RobG said:

It seems to me people are attracted to sports they think they can play and afford to participate in.

That's an excellent point and while I am very interested in AC, it is from a technical and show perspective, probably as most of us. Not something I am thinking when sailing (to try to mimic like a kid doing a sprint and mimicking Usain Bolt).

Actually showing some "Optimist" races could be more beneficial to promote sailing than AC (and could be pretty fun to watch). I am sure many kids could probably see themselves in those small boats going around... In some countries, they are doing like national championship for many different sports during a single week and most are shown on public TV, I actually think this is a great way to promote lesser known sports. How else would you know the existence of foot-golf, casting, boule (precision throw), ...

And probably that some people might be attracted by sailing cruisers if they knew a bit of the atmosphere on board. Sure, if you look at them from a distance and don't know what is happening, this is not really thrilling and can turn into perfect snore fest. But there is so much more into sailing than the white sail moving slowly over the horizon... It is just to find the right way to convey which side of sailing you want to show. 

 

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14 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Yole boat cracking along quite well without to much underwater.

 

Cool to see my "local' boats!! 

Grew up in Guadeloupe next to Martinique were the Yoles have been under a revival in the last decade or more.

It's quite a workout and a balancing act...

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Mini moon fully remote controlled...

 

Screenshot_20190818-071730.png

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23 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Mini moon fully remote controlled...

 

Screenshot_20190818-071730.png

Of course it is. It probably has a return to home function. Who needs sailors when all you are after is data. Way easier to get objective data when on full auto pilot I would think.

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28 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

Mini moon fully remote controlled...

 

Screenshot_20190818-071730.png

Wow.  Jimmy's own team's trolling him now.

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12 hours ago, barfy said:

Who needs sailors when all you are after is data. Way easier to get objective data when on full auto pilot I would think.

I guess that's why F1 teams do all their testing with driverless cars, there's nothing for humans to learn by practice.

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6 hours ago, RobG said:

I guess that's why F1 teams do all their testing with driverless cars, there's nothing for humans to learn by practice.

If you consider CFD a ´driverless car´you'd be correct, otherwise your talking outa ya arse.....

 

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6 hours ago, RobG said:

I guess that's why F1 teams do all their testing with driverless cars, there's nothing for humans to learn by practice.

Drivers need to drive,I was taking the piss a bit there...But etnz said their mission was to learn how to drive as well as their flight controller, which they succeeded at in maneuvers.

A full auto system, whether manned or not, could quickly test a large set of situations needed for validation much faster than a human. A bay with a mile of sea room in all directions be a bit different than a car track I reckon.

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7 hours ago, Onthelock! said:

If you consider CFD a ´driverless car´you'd be correct, otherwise your talking outa ya arse.....

 

He was taking the piss..

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12 hours ago, barfy said:

Drivers need to drive,I was taking the piss a bit there...But etnz said their mission was to learn how to drive as well as their flight controller, which they succeeded at in maneuvers.

A full auto system, whether manned or not, could quickly test a large set of situations needed for validation much faster than a human. A bay with a mile of sea room in all directions be a bit different than a car track I reckon.

Yes to all that. Validation of the model doesn't take very long, it's the humans that need time in the boat. You also need humans to validate the model as they'll do things the model doesn't know about. What humans have learned from the simulator also needs to be validated. We're a lot like AI, we learn stuff by stimulus—response, but exactly what we've learned is't validated until it's been put through many scenarios. Occasionally you'll find a response learned from the simulator is totally wrong in the real world. You can't find those (the unknown unknowns) through automated testing.

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Crikey I have long wondered why they have crew at all in these craft.

Humans not there for generating power for anything but headsail controls and sail changes to suit course layout no longer a feature event etc..

Appendages flight ride height control mainsail control all by whining power packs.

Appears that  the whole competitive sailing thing has a engine of some sort running constantly.

The deed of gift points to a yacht race.

Dalts and Co should go buy fucking stinkpots.

D5549CEA-E3FF-4829-A36A-AB9C417E59AC.thumb.jpeg.d207fdbe40a4fdd7701b1375abf11bc7.jpeg

 

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19 hours ago, RobG said:

Yes to all that. Validation of the model doesn't take very long, it's the humans that need time in the boat. You also need humans to validate the model as they'll do things the model doesn't know about. What humans have learned from the simulator also needs to be validated. We're a lot like AI, we learn stuff by stimulus—response, but exactly what we've learned is't validated until it's been put through many scenarios. Occasionally you'll find a response learned from the simulator is totally wrong in the real world. You can't find those (the unknown unknowns) through automated testing.

Would not some types of testing require large numbers of situations to be tested? Such as a genetic algorithm? Then the autopilot would not only be validating models that have high confidence, but actually working through populations of parameters looking for interesting solutions that perhaps the simulator hadn't stumbled on. I know it sounds bat shit crazy, but I know that these teams will leave no stone un turned.

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That? From a design company? :(

Way to fail "frate"......

Oh it's just a guess - as you were

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Not their fault they haven't whored themselves to promote some random regime.

Prada has enough cash not to need the extra crap yes? 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Not their fault they haven't whored themselves to promote some random regime.

Prada has enough cash not to need the extra crap yes? 

Ewww, bitter.

Prada will look good on the line, for sure. If crap = style I would think you are wrong about them. If crap = sponsors..Maybe.

Your sir ben would have had a full sail of graphics if he didn't go whoring to someone in, what is it, cypress?

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

Not their fault they haven't whored themselves to promote some random regime.

Prada has enough cash not to need the extra crap yes? 

What...like the frackers??

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Not their fault they haven't whored themselves to promote some random regime.

I thought we'd arrived at a moratorium on the Oil Wars! ;-)

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1 hour ago, barfy said:

Ewww, bitter.

Prada will look good on the line, for sure. If crap = style I would think you are wrong about them. If crap = sponsors..Maybe.

Your sir ben would have had a full sail of graphics if he didn't go whoring to someone in, what is it, cypress?

I just can’t get past the yellow. The yellow on the foils alone with ETNZ grew on me, but plastered all over the main just doesn’t look right. 

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

I just can’t get past the yellow. The yellow on the foils alone with ETNZ grew on me, but plastered all over the main just doesn’t look right. 

When I was growing up on the great Lakes a mates dad had all of his boats that colour, canoe, beach cat, runabout, family boat. 

Shit colour for the water I reckon.

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6 minutes ago, barfy said:

When I was growing up on the great Lakes a mates dad had all of his boats that colour, canoe, beach cat, runabout, family boat. 

Shit colour for the water I reckon.

Umm...  I live on the Great Lakes and my beach cat is that color.  :D

I’ve got nothing against the color. It just doesn’t go with the usual silver/red or white/red Luna Rosa makes look so good. 

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Barfy, Indio, rh3000 is that bingo/full house? 

Only fucking about, let’s face it, the pretty (or otherwise) stickers won’t matter a bit come race day, least of all a really shit rendering of a boat that really won’t look like the ones that actually race. 

not long now folks :-)

 

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Barfy, Indio, rh3000 is that bingo/full house? 

It is! Congrats! :lol:

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5 hours ago, Monkey said:

Umm...  I live on the Great Lakes and my beach cat is that color.  :D

I’ve got nothing against the color. It just doesn’t go with the usual silver/red or white/red Luna Rosa makes look so good. 

My mate had the most sweet narrow yellow cedar strip with bamboo seats and and a pressurized tank 12hp evorude. You had to pump the tank like a Coleman lantern.

YellowP clashed for me when etnz brought them onboard in 35, but I got used to it and thought it was a good accent...for the other skippers to focus on. 

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Meanwhile, boat launch has been postponed to an undefined date... :ph34r:

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16 hours ago, ITA602 said:

Meanwhile, boat launch has been postponed to an undefined date... :ph34r:

I wonder why.  Foil arm issues?  That picture of a supposed AC75 in the S&S thread, and is now being linked to NYYC, people say "why would you step a mast on a boat without a keel" or something to that affect.  What if it is AM's AC75 and they are forced to step their mast now to check fit and such without the foil arms because the foil arms are delayed?

Not trying to stir shit.  Just speculating out of my ass.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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54 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I wonder why.  Foil arm issues?  That picture of a supposed AC75 in the S&S thread, and is now being linked to NYYC, people say "why would you step a mast on a boat without a keel" or something to that affect.  What if it is AM's AC75 and they are forced to step their mast now to check fit and such without the foil arms because the foil arms are delayed?

Not trying to stir shit.  Just speculating out of my ass.

WetHog  :ph34r:

The LR boat was shipped from Persico very late. I was talking to a "guy" early august and he said that at that date the hull was supposed to be already in Cagliari, but it was not.

I guess the delay is not related to foil arm. Hull and arms were costucted under the same roof, and Cariboni (hydraulics) is half hour driving, so plenty of occasion to make them work.

I bet it's just fitting all other stuff inside the hull.

S&S maybe is just fitting the mast to check, what's wrong with that?;) you lose the wow effect of the presentation, but as a engineer i would have done the same.

 

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11 minutes ago, ITA602 said:

The LR boat was shipped from Persico very late. I was talking to a "guy" early august and he said that at that date the hull was supposed to be already in Cagliari, but it was not.

I guess the delay is not related to foil arm. Hull and arms were costucted under the same roof, and Cariboni (hydraulics) is half hour driving, so plenty of occasion to make them work.

I bet it's just fitting all other stuff inside the hull.

S&S maybe is just fitting the mast to check, what's wrong with that?;) you lose the wow effect of the presentation, but as a engineer i would have done the same.

 

New boat porn gets me excited and leads me to speculate.  And with the previous issues with foil arms it seemed like an easy thing to throw out there but I am sure with these new boats there are numerous ways a boat launch can be delayed.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Gtran of https://www.juorno.it/americas-cup-luna-rossa-rinvia-il-varonessun-vantaggio-agli-avversari/

bold mine

 

The challenge of the America's Cup has already begun. With moves that are made now but that can become decisive in two years, in 2021, in the super final in Auckland, New Zealand. First step, do not give any advantage to the opponents: it is the motivation for the further postponement of the launch of the new Luna Rossa jewel. The descent into the water was scheduled for August 25th, then September 9th. Now there is another change of course, or rather date: the day of baptism is still to be defined, but we should not go beyond the end of next month.

"No mystery and no problem - explains skipper Max Sirena - we are fully satisfied with the work we are doing. But we must keep the strategies in mind: we want to launch when we are sure that the next day, or at the latest within 48 hours, we can navigate. It doesn't seem right to give too many advantages. The launch is a special moment, like the birth of a child - underlines the skipper -: we can't wait for the hour ".


The boat, which arrived in Cagliari in recent weeks, is in the citadel's hangar at the Ichnusa pier: the team is working to make it competitive and successful since the first tests, the America's Cup World Series, in Cagliari from 23 to 26 April . But the objective is clear: to win the America's cup in the final challenge in New Zealand in 2021. Meanwhile, Cagliari is preparing to become the capital and point of reference for world sailing until next spring: after the headquarters of Luna Rossa it rises at Sabaudo pier, a large village that will host all the teams and boats involved in the first leg of the America's Cup World Series scheduled from 23rd to 26th April next year.

 

The Defender of the America's Cup is expected Emirates Team New Zealand, the Challenger of Record Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team (ITA), INEOS Team UK (GBR), NYYC American Magic (USA) and Stars + Stripes Team USA. The first team to install will be Ineos: the procedure for obtaining the concession for the area occupied a few years ago by Luna Rossa has already begun. Ineos will arrive in Cagliari between October and November. Then the other challengers will arrive: they will all stay at the Sabaudo pier, not far from the competition area of the first stage of the World Series and a decisive test in view of the Auckland challenge.

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3 hours ago, hoom said:

Did TE actually say what the 'breaking news' was?

From last week? Ya, he had Clean on for a guest talking head.

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TE: the italians claim they did not break their training boat, however they now train on their silver boat, so now guess... However the AC45 bows are cut in order to be accepted as a surrogate.

 

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

TE: due to new problems, foils arms delamination, foils mecanism problems: splashing is delayed to end of september.

93014FAB-1276-4E4D-8389-25A75DB90102.thumb.png.bc29e24bc912afb8a343316b6d72adc6.png

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1 minute ago, Stingray~ said:

93014FAB-1276-4E4D-8389-25A75DB90102.thumb.png.bc29e24bc912afb8a343316b6d72adc6.png

Yep, pretty worrying, foil arm delamination and moreover foil mechanism problem.

It was a very good TFE show today, I saw you were following too ;)

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12 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

93014FAB-1276-4E4D-8389-25A75DB90102.thumb.png.bc29e24bc912afb8a343316b6d72adc6.png

Is this some kind of shit stirring? Firstly a reference to a nearly 2 hour long Tom Ehman video with no indication of when in the clip he made the relevant statement (in the YouTube version it's at about 1:32:58), then an image of a story with no link and claims of delays due to various issues.

I found a number of links to stories with the same or similar headline, all carried the following quote from Max Sirena (in English via Google Translate):

"No mystery and no problem - explains Sirena - we are fully satisfied with the work we are doing. But we must keep the strategies in mind: we want to launch when we are sure that the next day, or at most within 48 hours, we can navigate. It doesn't seem right to give too many advantages. Launching is a special moment, like the birth of a child: we can't wait "

Links: Cagliaripad, 22 August 2019, Tutosport, 22 August 2019, Napoli Magazine 23 August 2019, etc.

No hint of any of the claimed issues, or maybe someone can post a link, image, video, whatever from a believable source?

 

 

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3 hours ago, RobG said:

Is this some kind of shit stirring? Firstly a reference to a nearly 2 hour long Tom Ehman video with no indication of when in the clip he made the relevant statement (in the YouTube version it's at about 1:32:58), then an image of a story with no link and claims of delays due to various issues.

I found a number of links to stories with the same or similar headline, all carried the following quote from Max Sirena (in English via Google Translate):

"No mystery and no problem - explains Sirena - we are fully satisfied with the work we are doing. But we must keep the strategies in mind: we want to launch when we are sure that the next day, or at most within 48 hours, we can navigate. It doesn't seem right to give too many advantages. Launching is a special moment, like the birth of a child: we can't wait "

Links: Cagliaripad, 22 August 2019, Tutosport, 22 August 2019, Napoli Magazine 23 August 2019, etc.

No hint of any of the claimed issues, or maybe someone can post a link, image, video, whatever from a believable source?

TE was clear that the Italians deny any problem. However why did they decide to cut an AC45 and train on it instead of Mini Luna ? We are not into information but guesses, every one can chose his interpretation, that's part of the AC.

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Probably that have a much larger rig set up to test on the bigger boat?

plus the cut down 45 is fucking old news, they had it out rig testing early last year so what’s the issue? What’s the intrigue? 

New boat is fully automated with a single skin rig so ideal for checking the flight control is easy to switch  off, I mean you wouldn’t want it going full automatic in the middle of a match would you ;-) 

the 45 might be a better option for testing double surface rig? 

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11 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Probably that have a much larger rig set up to test on the bigger boat?

plus the cut down 45 is fucking old news, they had it out rig testing early last year so what’s the issue? What’s the intrigue? 

New boat is fully automated with a single skin rig so ideal for checking the flight control is easy to switch  off, I mean you wouldn’t want it going full automatic in the middle of a match would you ;-) 

the 45 might be a better option for testing double surface rig? 

By new boat do you mean mini moon? Or the B1? None of this auto stuff is going to measure for the match or acws, so it's not going to be in place for long.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

TE was clear that the Italians deny any problem. However why did they decide to cut an AC45 and train on it instead of Mini Luna ? We are not into information but guesses, every one can chose his interpretation, that's part of the AC.

I think the Italians are in some trouble & hot water as well.

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5 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

TE was clear that the Italians deny any problem. However why did they decide to cut an AC45 and train on it instead of Mini Luna ? We are not into information but guesses, every one can chose his interpretation, that's part of the AC.

That AC45 platform has been in use since the very start of their campaign! They have been training on it since the beginning of the year.

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1 hour ago, dg_sailingfan said:

I think the Italians are in some trouble & hot water as well.

Or maybe they think they have an advantage they don't want to give away.

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Bottom Line:

The Italians have no excuse. They should be the one challenging ETNZ in the Match given that they known the AC 75 Design Rule waaay before Ineos & AM did. If they don't get there = Huge Failure.

Luna Rossa is clearly the Team with the most at stake.

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8 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

Or maybe they think they have an advantage they don't want to give away.

If I take a good educated guess I'd say that the Brits (INEOS) are the ones who found some kind of loophole in the AC 75 Design to give them some kind of Advantage and not the Italians given that there are the ones having everything under wraps and not even giving a hitch when they will launch Boat 1. Why? They have Nick Holroyd as Chief Designer and he was the one who found the loophole in the AC 72 Design prior to the 2013 Cup to get the Boat out of the water and on foils. Do you think it's a coincidence Simmer & Ainslie hired Holroyd? I do not.

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53 minutes ago, dg_sailingfan said:

If I take a good educated guess I'd say that the Brits (INEOS) are the ones who found some kind of loophole in the AC 75 Design to give them some kind of Advantage and not the Italians given that there are the ones having everything under wraps and not even giving a hitch when they will launch Boat 1. Why? They have Nick Holroyd as Chief Designer and he was the one who found the loophole in the AC 72 Design prior to the 2013 Cup to get the Boat out of the water and on foils. Do you think it's a coincidence Simmer & Ainslie hired Holroyd? I do not.

WTF? You go on about the Italians being under wraps and not announcing a launch date for boat 1. Has INEOS shown anything to anyone? NO. Have INEOS announced a launch date? NO. So your guess is already wrong.

Holroyd was also the one who thought upwind foiling wasn't worth looking at in 2013. It ended up being the one area they were beaten in, and the reason why he was "let go" from ETNZ.

You have no clue.

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6 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

WTF? You go on about the Italians being under wraps and not announcing a launch date for boat 1. Has INEOS shown anything to anyone? NO. Have INEOS announced a launch date? NO. So your guess is already wrong.

Holroyd was also the one who thought upwind foiling wasn't worth looking at in 2013. It ended up being the one area they were beaten in, and the reason why he was "let go" from ETNZ.

You have no clue.

The Italians will not win this Cup. Bertelli & Clownish Spithill should give up.

Jimmy Spithill = Worst AC Helmsman & Skipper ever, a real cut & out of line person, bad behaviour, etc.

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3 hours ago, barfy said:

By new boat do you mean mini moon? Or the B1? None of this auto stuff is going to measure for the match or acws, so it's not going to be in place for long.

Ha ha, it’s a line of code, fuck measuring. Just make sure it’s turned off ;-)

once learned it can’t be unlearned, in the last cup the computer told the flight control dude on TNZ where to put his finger on the screen. 

That additional  stage(finger on screen) had to be added. the computer knew already and what to do about it. 

the Italians demoing a crew less boat is basically a look at what we can do moment, (rumour was TNZ used the Italian flight control in the last cup when Pravda withdrew)

both teams will be well advanced with very very good flight control systems, that is beyond doubt 

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6 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

both teams will be well advanced with very very good flight control systems, that is beyond doubt 

But to measure there are strict rules on feedback loops, already discussed. There will be no "follow the bouncing ball" control loop here. My reading is that tactical displays will be limited...starting time aids, all that stuff gone.

I'm sure everyone will, as you say, use highly developed aids to learn how to sail these boats without some of the usual stimuli like flipping it ten times ;)

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Well if F1 teams can sit there with lines of code (allegedly  inactive) whilst conforming to a ridiculous level of scrutiny way beyond the AC you will have to excuse my scepticism. 

Benneton F1 team we’re found by the FIA to have code pertaining to launch control on their cars  half way through a season where it had been banned for over 6 months. ( the excuse was for driver testing and set up) they say it was never run in race trim but their cars simply buggered off in wet races. 

 

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10 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

TE was clear that the Italians deny any problem. However why did they decide to cut an AC45 and train on it instead of Mini Luna ? We are not into information but guesses, every one can chose his interpretation, that's part of the AC.

It could also be that the AC45 requires more crew than the Mini Luna.  Maybe they just want more crew teamwork training to take place.  The videos of the Mini Luna show a helmsman and a couple of guys just sitting around.

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14 minutes ago, Herfy said:

It could also be that the AC45 requires more crew than the Mini Luna.  Maybe they just want more crew teamwork training to take place.  The videos of the Mini Luna show a helmsman and a couple of guys just sitting around.

One video shows no helmsman and no one sitting around. Perhaps the crew has become redundant.

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Could the reason they've stopped sailing the mini moon be something as simple as they've tested what they needed to in it's current configaration and now it's back in the shed being reconfigured in some way so they can test that configaration and compare the two?

Isn't that what you do with test boats?

Or am I just being too logical here and not entering into the spirit of things by not buying into the tin foil hat brigades theories?

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13 hours ago, Herfy said:

It could also be that the AC45 requires more crew than the Mini Luna.  Maybe they just want more crew teamwork training to take place.  The videos of the Mini Luna show a helmsman and a couple of guys just sitting around.

As we don't know here are the possibilities:

- they broke mini luna

- they preferred to use mini luna controlled at distance to test some flight system and use the modified AC 45 for their crew

- they want to train more people at the time, but this is not my favourite guess

And let us remember that TE told us they had to postpone the launch because of delamination on the foil arm and problems on the FCS.

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1 hour ago, Forourselves said:

Have they actually stopped sailing the test boat? Posted 22nd August

68865633_1592812970854101_59788719738689

 

It looks nice excepted that if you look closely the boat is towed with both foils down. It could be one of the first day they foiled, or if taken now they test something specific.

Anyway, I don't know why they post that on their Facebook, it's not a good sailing photo, we have seen much better from them and the other teams. It could be a PR person who doesn't know shit about sailing and was told to post something that would hook somebody like s clarke. :)

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

It looks nice excepted that if you look closely the boat is towed with both foils down. It could be one of the first day they foiled, or if taken now they test something specific.

Anyway, I don't know why they post that on their Facebook, it's not a good sailing photo, we have seen much better from them and the other teams. It could be a PR person who doesn't know shit about sailing and was told to post something that would hook somebody like s clarke. :)

Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

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