strider470

Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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31 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Is the boat tipping towards the camera, or is that just an optical illusion?

Looks like about 15 knots of wind from starboard side of boat. Big ass D section+flags. Definitely heeling.

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3 minutes ago, JonRowe said:

Really? So the US requires the flag to be reversed on the starboard side... how backward. </pun>

The stars and stripes, (USA flag) cannot be shown in retreat when fixed to a moving object like a human, boat, vehicle or spaceship etc.

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1 minute ago, 17mika said:

Fences also on port are visible in a photo. 


I think the anhedral is more about minimization of vertical immersion upwind on the foil, when arm is canted as outboard as possible (max RM), with the outboard half of the foil parallel to water surface and the inboard foil rolled to windward, to provide leeway resistance. Just speculation ,of course.

Sounds good. With independent flap control it may be possible to get considerable up wind lift from the vertical element. Maybe.

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11 minutes ago, RCH said:

Luna Rosa missed the mark on those foils. Just saying.

Spare judgement until we can see performance numbers. Unless of course you have more experience than the salaried engineers who designed those...

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3 minutes ago, barfy said:

Sounds good. With independent flap control it may be possible to get considerable up wind lift from the vertical element. Maybe.

Is independent flap control legal? I thought it wasn't but I have not read rules for a while, so I might be wrong

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2 minutes ago, josh_bartoszuk1 said:

Looks like about 15 knots of wind from starboard side of boat. Big ass D section. Definitely heeling.

Its sinking. They forgot to put the bung in. 

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32 minutes ago, WetHog said:

What difference does it make what the foils look like now?  These are just testing foils and the foils that matter won't be advertised, right?

WetHog  :ph34r:

No.  Because of the low number of foils that each team can make, these are very likely the teams idea of what the best foils will be.  They have to test the hell out of them to be able to iterate on the real boat.  Simulation etc will only get you so far before you simply have to test it on the boat.

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1 minute ago, 17mika said:

Is independent flap control legal? I thought it wasn't but I have not read rules in a while, so I might be wrong

I believe it is. The flaps need to be able to show symmetry in the full range of motion across the arm, but I don't think they need to be controlled as such.

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22 minutes ago, RCH said:

Luna Rosa missed the mark on those foils. Just saying.

Luna rossa will be calling shortly for your napkin scribbles

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17 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Most beautiful boat to date.

Really? Have you seen Te Aihe? 

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21 minutes ago, 17mika said:

Is independent flap control legal? I thought it wasn't but I have not read rules for a while, so I might be wrong

All could find is:

15.6 Both foil flaps of a foil shall have the same range of angular rotation and twist. With both foil flaps of a
foil centred in their ranges of motion, each foil flap shall be symmetric with respect to the other about
the foil wing symmetry plane, with a build tolerance of 3.0 mm.

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I love the Italian approach to signal etiquette - just throw the spare bundle over the gunnel.:)

Pretty boat, but I’m not convinced her vestigial keel is fast. I’d guess it adds wetted surface area rather than aids getting onto plane, or airborne. Maybe helps with slow speed stability if needed during pre-starts, and they bank on foiling the rest of the race?

Rutter chord is interesting - lots of paddle when she’s at waterline, but lots less when up she rises. Again, perhaps helps control when waterlining?

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

AM are the outlier in terms of things that matter.  They're starting to look like they've missed a trick with their hull design.

Either that or they figured something out that ETNZ and LR haven't...

The bottom line here is simple.

Everything is speculation until these boats line up and race against one another for more than pride and bragging rights. 

At that point, we'll know...

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45 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

The stars and stripes, (USA flag) cannot be shown in retreat when fixed to a moving object like a human, boat, vehicle or spaceship etc.

What happens if you do? Does Trump call you a bad name?

Besides, it’s way more fashionable to display it upside down these days. 

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6 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

What happens if you do? Does Trump call you a bad name?

Besides, it’s way more fashionable to display it upside down these days. 

Look, Trump's aides just took away his smartphone, turned on some Fox News and put him down for his nap. Please don't wake him up. Our country runs so much better when he's not awake to fuck shit up...

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42 minutes ago, Salty Seacock said:

Really? Have you seen Te Aihe? 

Flipper looks cool, but it isn’t pretty. 

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Just now, Monkey said:

Flipper looks cool, but it isn’t pretty. 

Salty just likes the pretty colors and swirls on the Kiwi boat...

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4 hours ago, Herfy said:

I see they have the torpedo foils.  Could have delayed the launch after seeing the AM foils!  They can only splash 6 foils and may have realized the NZ type foil was inferior?

In your dreams, Herfy. 

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Just now, Priscilla said:

just push hubby out of the way and give it a good wack.

Damn straight!

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5 hours ago, Herfy said:

I see they have the torpedo foils.  Could have delayed the launch after seeing the AM foils!

I think this theory has some legs. 

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1 hour ago, Herfy said:

They touched the water, they count towards the six.

People keep referencing "touching water", but based on what I read in the class rule, I don't think this is the case.  The rule states, "fitted to the boat", nothing about getting wet...

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1 minute ago, Ex-yachtie said:

I think this theory has some legs. 

And a couple of torpedoes, apparently. ;-)

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Congratulations, Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli team.

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32 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

What happens if you do? Does Trump call you a bad name?

Besides, it’s way more fashionable to display it upside down these days. 

Do you really think Trump knows what the flag looks like?

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

What difference does it make what the foils look like now?  These are just testing foils and the foils that matter won't be advertised, right?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Interesting that ETNZ is a foil outlier already, Hoggie. It will be interesting to see how they converge over time...or not.

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

So what do we think happened here?  Did Jimmy drive the forklift into the side?

Annotation 2019-10-03 063931.png

Annotation 2019-10-03 064028.png

 

Edit: Shit, sorry, wrong colored lines.

I missed this Jimmy driving the forklift thing... did that happen? (I am well aware that it didnt crash into the boat)

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Superb, I love simple and fast looking boats. Could be a Starck design

Looks like a Pilot Cutter without the freeboard, from this angle. ;-)

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16 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Do you really think Trump knows what the flag looks like?

Of course he does! He loves gold. ;)

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1 hour ago, Brutal said:

Everything is speculation until these boats line up and race against one another for more than pride and bragging rights. 

At that point, we'll know...

Ahhhh I think you'll find that AM is already 'dominating', well according to the forum 'legends' :rolleyes:

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30 minutes ago, wlrottge said:

People keep referencing "touching water", but based on what I read in the class rule, I don't think this is the case.  The rule states, "fitted to the boat", nothing about getting wet...

The getting wet come from this video.  They say that you can only declare six foils.  

Every time the boat goes sailing or gets put in the water, you have to declare all of the parts.  

So, since the boat is in the water the parts have to be declared and the foils have to be one of the six possible.  I guess that could allow them to fit parts to the boat, but not have to declare all those parts unless they are used when the boat is sailed (in the water).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB2ae6oV1HU

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13 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Looks like a Pilot Cutter without the freeboard, from this angle. ;-)

Yup, if you took those flappy yellow bilge keels of I think it has promise.

4AD05C8A-9C06-4B69-A8A5-880E69D68836.thumb.png.a43a2e6049443adf58d2e283632b44a1.png

 

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8 minutes ago, Herfy said:

The getting wet come from this video.  They say that you can only declare six foils.  

I don't have time now, but if you look at 5.6 of the rule (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZRwGU-q4zGlD1jfStdY2kpzVB9PM96w/view), that seems to indicate that if you fit it to the boat, you have to declare it and once declared, it counts against your limit.

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26 minutes ago, Purple Headed Warrior said:

I missed this Jimmy driving the forklift thing... did that happen? (I am well aware that it didnt crash into the boat)

No. It was in reference to banter elsewhere associated with this image. 

259AA8C6-54A7-4B15-B05A-495DDBEE38DF.png

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The torpedo on the foils is about the 20% change I thought, so lots of different foil changes.

 

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Thats a really pretty boat !  good on them

If it turns out that some races are sailed in conditions on the transition of foiling it could make for some really interesting sport!

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

This is how you do it, no mechanism just push hubby out of the way and give it a good wack.

CEDC466C-0F89-4BDE-B5FD-F0BFF55EA854.thumb.jpeg.834c9677e949dec21f1f6f1db95ba111.jpeg

 

image.jpeg.c8fedbf2bf3d13fe288ea982da8c9467.jpeg

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Based purely on the limited photos we have on Big Luna right now I'm willing to say it looks the most refined of the 3 boats in the water right now...

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36 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

The torpedo on the foils is about the 20% change I thought, so lots of different foil changes.

 

 

Exactly, I think it is 20% of the weight and AM+LR have all the weight in the bulb, so they can basically change the rest as much as they want.

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24 minutes ago, weta27 said:

A tow rope! T-C will be excited ..

Yep, some of the articles quote Max S saying they will begin with tow testing, starting tomorrow. Sailing by next week. 

And yes, must have been the nice Mistral causing it to heel, and I suppose the awkward nose to the wind launch angle from the dock. 

They have really good conditions in Cagliari, it should be a good sailing-days benefit - Max also says they need to make decisions and then begin the B2 build by end of this month.

56779F2F-9596-45B1-8DEA-6FB052A400CE.thumb.jpeg.7104f1161636f878bb2fe4d832e0c256.jpeg

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Pretty looking (although asthetically those foils are a bit much!).

Kind of looks like a giant mullety!

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1 hour ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Geez, those up tip foils might be enough to drag DL out of retirement :D

UpTip.jpg

Agreed, those uPtiPs are pretty interesting!

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5 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Pretty looking (although asthetically those foils are a bit much!).

Kind of looks like a giant mullety!

I’m hating the yellow foils. They kill the look of an otherwise pretty boat. I would’ve kept the Pirelli colors, but invert them. Red foils, yellow lettering. 

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4 minutes ago, minimumfuss said:

That black finish is showing us all their lumps. Looks like cellulite clad in spandex from some angles

Carbon often looks rough in photos but damn it’s a little too hard to see the size and shape of the flaps. There’s no discernable flap joint in any photos that I’ve seen, unlike the photos when TNZ and AM launched.

If they really do have 80% of the foil wing weight in those torpedoes then it’s possible the rest of the foils are fake.. Max S does seem a little obsessed about not revealing things.

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7 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I’m hating the yellow foils. They kill the look of an otherwise pretty boat. I would’ve kept the Pirelli colors, but invert them. Red foils, yellow lettering. 

The more Yellow you see, the faster she can go? Not too bad.

This is my favorite hull so far in some ways but ETNZ’s paint job frikkin’ rocks!

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The more Yellow you see, the faster she can go? Not too bad.

So top speed while upside down?  Intriguing theory. 

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5 hours ago, luminary said:

Slick?

Rupture?

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I think those foils might be close to identicle, except for the fences, should give them pretty solid evidence under what conditions they make the most difference and it's only a small amount of mass so you can easily convert the other one to being identicle.

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4 hours ago, WetHog said:

Interesting curvature of the deck from bow to stern.

But it passed its first test, it floats!

WetHog  :ph34r:

That's called a sheer, Hoggie. In this case, a reverse sheer. But you knew that, right?

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Max from https://www.lunarossachallenge.com/en/news/399_AC75-Luna-Rossa-the-new-flying-monohull-for-the-36th-Americas-Cup-presented-by-Prada

“A lot of effort has gone into reducing the transition time between the phase where the hull is fully in the water and the flying phase; it is a difficult balance to achieve, and we will continue to work on it during the development stage.”

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2 hours ago, wlrottge said:

I don't have time now, but if you look at 5.6 of the rule (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZRwGU-q4zGlD1jfStdY2kpzVB9PM96w/view), that seems to indicate that if you fit it to the boat, you have to declare it and once declared, it counts against your limit.

I haven’t read the rules, just going by what we have heard.  What you are saying is that it is even more restrictive and they don’t have to get them wet in order to declare.

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17 minutes ago, Herfy said:

I haven’t read the rules, just going by what we have heard.  What you are saying is that it is even more restrictive and they don’t have to get them wet in order to declare.

5.7.11 says that if you look at the foils and then simultaneously wet yourself it is an official declaration of some kind. 5.7.12 says: The measurers get to witness it?

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Interesting foil shape (from Sail World)yysw268053.jpg.92f53e3c19934ee5920c0c6f53a65bf5.jpg

Oh, wow! Very different...

I best JS likes it: Gone Shootin’ !

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Interesting foil shape (from Sail World)yysw268053.jpg.92f53e3c19934ee5920c0c6f53a65bf5.jpg

Pretty sure the little lumps are some kind of protector, they are not present in other photos. But the fences vary in size dramatically between the two foils.

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5 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

AM are the outlier in terms of things that matter.  They're starting to look like they've missed a trick with their hull design.

Or they're up on the other 2 who have launched..

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6 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Pretty sure the little lumps are some kind of protector, they are not present in other photos. 

This is the closest shot I’ve seen, they look real. The shape of the main torp is nicely shadow-hilited in this photo too, it’s a really good one.

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So won't the "keel" ridge make it damn difficult to turn when the hull is in the water?  Seems like things could get interesting if they splash down during a tack/gybe.  Kind of like grabbing an edge on your snowboard...

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Enlargement

Capture.thumb.PNG.f009c5e4cbbc15e6af52d89d8d66d596.PNG

Nice, TC!

The speed-secret silver-scaled Sardines!! They sneaked the Swordfish-throwback mirrors in there after all.

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7 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Nice, TC!

The speed-secret silver-scaled Sardines!! They sneaked the Swordfish-throwback mirrors in there after all.

The small and the big Sardine :)

Interestingly the closest photo from the foil is in a NZ magazine but only in a small version, let's bet the the original is a very big format and already analyzed by TNZ...

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The small and the big Sardine :)

Interestingly the closest photo from the foil is in a NZ magazine but only in a small version, let's bet the the original is a very big format and already analyzed by TNZ...

What are the white marks on them that look like Sharks teeth, just decoration or are they sensors? Wild.

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3 hours ago, wlrottge said:

I don't have time now, but if you look at 5.6 of the rule (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xZRwGU-q4zGlD1jfStdY2kpzVB9PM96w/view), that seems to indicate that if you fit it to the boat, you have to declare it and once declared, it counts against your limit.

I wonder the same. I mean the Italian boys are great, but.....have you watched their frackulating discussion?^_^

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Fascinating boat. The one thing I really don't get is the rudder skeg. Reminds me of my old Farr IOR. Everything else looks fast except for that skeg..?   

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37 minutes ago, Rainier said:

So won't the "keel" ridge make it damn difficult to turn when the hull is in the water?  Seems like things could get interesting if they splash down during a tack/gybe.  Kind of like grabbing an edge on your snowboard...

Not really, many boats have keels like that including almost all displacement mode launches.

It might not be the most maneuverable design to be sure, but it won't be that bigger issue once she is under way.

Could have implications in the start box I guess, but to be honest so might AM's very flat bottom with no keel for the rudder to work against, having only one foil down to leeward must make for intersting forces when trying to get the rudder to work when near to stationary, especially if the hull shape has very little lateral resistance, kind of like trying to turn a dinghy just after a beach launch, when your just drifting and before you get the board down.

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54 minutes ago, Indio said:

Or they're up on the other 2 who have launched..

That’s what I love about a whole new AC class!  We have no idea!  
 

(I honestly never thought I’d see that comment from you!)

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1 hour ago, Rainier said:

So won't the "keel" ridge make it damn difficult to turn when the hull is in the water?  Seems like things could get interesting if they splash down during a tack/gybe.  Kind of like grabbing an edge on your snowboard...

Or steering an old cutter in the marina.

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Carbon often looks rough in photos but damn it’s a little too hard to see the size and shape of the flaps. There’s no discernable flap joint in any photos that I’ve seen, unlike the photos when TNZ and AM launched.

If they really do have 80% of the foil wing weight in those torpedoes then it’s possible the rest of the foils are fake.. Max S does seem a little obsessed about not revealing things.

image.png.41c055a1488e828b49baa7f133ac0d23.png

Flap?

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Or they're up on the other 2 who have launched..

Sure, let's say that.

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5 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Interesting that ETNZ is a foil outlier already, Hoggie. It will be interesting to see how they converge over time...or not.

Still got the fracker to splash but, yes, flipper’s flippers are on their own path.  

Hull shape appears to this non-sailor to be a factor as well.  The boats can’t be towed on to their foils when the racing starts and I think one boat trying to get another boat off it’s foils during the pre-start is a viable tactic, as of now, if one hull design shows to not be stable in displacement mode.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

  

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You have to admire their attention to detail. They even color matched  their flying lines as they cross over the red Prada stripe.:D

lunarossa6.jpg

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