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Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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1 hour ago, The_Alchemist said:

Exactly like Ben said in the podcast interview.  Looks like they all know what is going on and NZ it testing the LR version in the Hawk.

There’s no end plating in the hull with the hawk. If anything it is the opposite, as it has less of a bustle the ETNZ b1

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14 minutes ago, uflux said:

There’s no end plating in the hull with the hawk. If anything it is the opposite, as it has less of a bustle the ETNZ b1

Agree. The bottom chine all but eliminates any endplate effect from the deadrise.

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6 hours ago, uflux said:

There’s no end plating in the hull with the hawk. If anything it is the opposite, as it has less of a bustle the ETNZ b1

That is your assumption, I think you are wrong.

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11 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

You think the kiwis will ask them to sort out the ride height control like they did with the 50?

fair swap? ;)
 

 

You have no evidence that this was the case. Rumours were they started with the LR training wheels.it's very unlikely the final assist " flying dot" had anything to do with the original autopilot.

Or maybe you can point to some evidence to the contrary?

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4 hours ago, barfy said:

You have no evidence that this was the case. Rumours were they started with the LR training wheels.it's very unlikely the final assist " flying dot" had anything to do with the original autopilot.

Or maybe you can point to some evidence to the contrary?

Oh calm the fuck down. Not even @hornrock took offence 

but yes you must be right  the gift package of a training ac45, Max Sirrena  and boxes of tech would have had NOTHING to do with the system that ended up getting used, it was pure coincidence they ended up COR as well too, using mono hulls.

 


 

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Oh calm the fuck down. Not even @hornrock took offence 

but yes you must be right  the gift package of a training ac45, Max Sirrena  and boxes of tech would have had NOTHING to do with the system that ended up getting used, it was pure coincidence they ended up COR as well too, using mono hulls.

 

I am calm cuz.  Just asking what evidence you had to back up your claim. Didn't even call you out on trolling or pulling shit from your ** hole to spread around on a slow day.

I would reckon, other than a testboat I believe, and human resource, a bucket of cash helped out etnz when dalts had the "closing shop" letter written.

In many circumstances code is easier to start from scratch rather than hack from an existing hacked up base, especially if there aren't a lot of libraries for specific peripherals. But I don't know, and hadn't seen anyone with creds write differently, so I'm not going to state it as fact. Get it?

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More of Martin Fischer here

Or did this get posted already?

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3 hours ago, barfy said:

I am calm cuz.  Just asking what evidence you had to back up your claim. Didn't even call you out on trolling or pulling shit from your ** hole to spread around on a slow day.

I would reckon, other than a testboat I believe, and human resource, a bucket of cash helped out etnz when dalts had the "closing shop" letter written.

In many circumstances code is easier to start from scratch rather than hack from an existing hacked up base, especially if there aren't a lot of libraries for specific peripherals. But I don't know, and hadn't seen anyone with creds write differently, so I'm not going to state it as fact. Get it?

Calm but can’t stop tapping away...

 

it was a light hearted joke. Clearly you are a bit of a cunt and can’t see that it was a joke. So maybe go re read what HR wrote, my comment and then come back if you think I was being 100% serious or stating facts.

 

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15 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

That is your assumption, I think you are wrong.

Oh...um sorry for pointing out the obvious.... but which bit is te kahu copying from LR?? 

DF232EA5-DE7D-4250-8DD8-852ED8BD7A07.png

3E145BEE-D271-4066-952C-03279EE3CD45.jpeg

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15 minutes ago, uflux said:

Oh...um sorry for pointing out the obvious.... but which bit is te kahu copying from LR?? 

DF232EA5-DE7D-4250-8DD8-852ED8BD7A07.png

3E145BEE-D271-4066-952C-03279EE3CD45.jpeg

It’s black? ;)

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54 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

It’s black? ;)

And it's got foils.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:
2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

It’s black? ;)

And it's got foils.

clearly you have missed the similarity in both having a rudder and a mast as well

was this on purpose or were we not supposed to notice that subtlety .. maybe its a secret you didnt think we would notice and they dont want others to notice till its to late to put them on before the races start

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5 hours ago, uflux said:

Oh...um sorry for pointing out the obvious.... but which bit is te kahu copying from LR?? 

DF232EA5-DE7D-4250-8DD8-852ED8BD7A07.png

3E145BEE-D271-4066-952C-03279EE3CD45.jpeg

image.jpeg.beb46582238cc6faf45ba8b42652eec9.jpeg

image.jpeg.a60874adbcd79b98191a622a75b9aa95.jpeg

At least look at all of the hull before you criticize the comparisons. 

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3 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

image.jpeg.beb46582238cc6faf45ba8b42652eec9.jpeg

image.jpeg.a60874adbcd79b98191a622a75b9aa95.jpeg

At least look at all of the hull before you criticize the comparisons. 

The Luna Rossa hull and Te Kahu hulls look completely different! In pretty much every way! The problem with your comparison is, you've basically said, the Luna Rossa AC75 and Te Aihe hulls are similar. Te Kahu and Te AIhe are different so they must be doing something similar to Luna Rossa, when infact, they're actually not.

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9 minutes ago, The_Alchemist said:

image.jpeg.beb46582238cc6faf45ba8b42652eec9.jpeg

image.jpeg.a60874adbcd79b98191a622a75b9aa95.jpeg

At least look at all of the hull before you criticize the comparisons. 

Sorry ....but that makes zero sense... :blink:

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4 hours ago, phill_nz said:

clearly you have missed the similarity in both having a rudder and a mast as well

was this on purpose or were we not supposed to notice that subtlety .. maybe its a secret you didnt think we would notice and they dont want others to notice till its to late to put them on before the races start

Duh. They copied those additional attributes from the other Challengers. Keep up, Phill. ;-)

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57 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Duh. They copied those additional attributes from the other Challengers. Keep up, Phill. ;-)

ohh crap .. you mean the others have caught on already

we are fuked now ..

our last secret advantage is .. a sail .. hope they dont crack that one till its to late

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16 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

yes you must be right  the gift package of a training ac45, Max Sirrena  and boxes of tech would have had NOTHING to do with the system that ended up getting used, it was pure coincidence they ended up COR as well too, using mono hulls.

Sorry, maybe my phone doesn't show up the joke font properly. 

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12 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

image.jpeg.beb46582238cc6faf45ba8b42652eec9.jpeg

image.jpeg.a60874adbcd79b98191a622a75b9aa95.jpeg

At least look at all of the hull before you criticize the comparisons. 

Look mom, Hugo Boss got new foils ! Or is it Charal ?

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Oops!  only the first and the Italians do seem to have been pushing more than the rest.  Funny, it's usually the Kiwis that want to be first at everything:)

 

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20 minutes ago, 17mika said:

I am surprised nobody posted it yet! this is not SA I used to know :D

Mast down!  https://www.facebook.com/foilingweek/photos/a.303434046499804/1529874593855737/?type=3&theater

I really hope everybody is fine. masts can be repaired.

 

For non Facebook enthusiasts. 

83517525_1529874600522403_1047596910665269248_o.jpg

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This boat is starting to seem a bit fragile - early rumors of mast breakage, recent screen grabs of delaminated/warped deck and now this...

Wonder if they discovered fragility and hence are pushing for 20 knot limit as likely their B2 core structure design is similar to B1.

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4 minutes ago, rh3000 said:

This boat is starting to seem a bit fragile - early rumors of mast breakage, recent screen grabs of delaminated/warped deck and now this...

Wonder if they discovered fragility and hence are pushing for 20 knot limit as likely their B2 core structure design is similar to B1.

Did I miss those shots?

Definitely I agree that they're pushing cause probably this is the last period they can change something in the laminate schedule of boat 2.

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9 minutes ago, 17mika said:

 

Did I miss those shots?

 

No idea... I think the screen grabs referred are the shots in post #2183... there may be others...

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- do they have a spare mast?

- if they don't and enough damage to the boat... what do the rules say when they are not able to compete in the first ACWS due to damage?

 

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On 1/26/2020 at 4:30 AM, Horn Rock said:

LR1.thumb.jpg.84da438c62c33e66db262d213355768b.jpg

And what's with all the tape around that sagging area?

Screen grabs I was referring to

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Hmmm I wonder what damage the under hull boom has just done to the boat with the forces involved in that??

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They lost their mast in 16 knots of breeze!! Jeez...:blink: No wonder they are worried about wind limits. They should have asked for15 knots max 

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Cagliari - Last hour. Luna Rossa AC75 dismantled today during training in the Gulf of Cagliari with strong winds. This is the photo taken from the FB page of Foiling Week :

83517525_1529874600522403_10475969106652

 

The photo shows the crew intent on recovering the bow a few minutes after the breakdown. The tree, which fell on the left side of the AC75, seems to have succumbed to the base and would not appear broken. Recall that the AC75 tree is resting on the deck and not passing through. An accident that will be part of the monopolies' learning phase ... better now than in three months racing.

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Not so good for the team. Is this boat starting to have an Alfa Romeo feel about it?

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So mast base blew up or a lateral broke, and somehow it came down in a single piece?

 

As to the shot of the deck, who knows how structural that section is, could be one step up from a fairing and inconsequential or could be underdesigned and showing it!

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

Not so good for the team. Is this boat starting to have an Alfa Romeo feel about it?

We haven’t even mentioned the oil leak

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4 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

No one has actually gone on record saying what if anything did happen 

Well we know SOMETHING did happen. 

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18 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Wasn't it the mast base that broke with Ineos too ?

I thought those delamination issues actually ended up being with ETNZ??

That pisses on our cornflakes as far as getting any more comparisons of performance between LR and INEOS when they're out together...

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57 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Wasn't it the mast base that broke with Ineos too ?

Possibly yes but a little farther up would be the weak point. Might be running increasingly high rig loadings so aggravating it and maybe a tight budget so running longer gear renewal times. Thank goodness no one has been hurt.

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m3065_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

m3064_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

 

Top half is o.k. :)

m3063_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

all lunarossachallenge.com

 

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Every AC class has had major breakages.  An IACC sunk for fuck's sake.  Young America also broke in half.  Oracle went ass over kettle and floated out The Gate.  And remember when Platypus' mast broke after ramming into Geronimo? They had to borrow a spare! :)  It happens when pushing design limits.  Remember these are V1 boats.

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4 minutes ago, Swimsailor said:

Every AC class has had major breakages.  An IACC sunk for fuck's sake.  Young America also broke in half.  Oracle went ass over kettle and floated out The Gate.  And remember when Platypus' mast broke after ramming into Geronimo? They had to borrow a spare! :)  It happens when pushing design limits.  Remember these are V1 boats.

It also put Luna Rossa out of commission for a few weeks as they are spending crucial time training and working towards b2 design decisions. You can’t buy time!!

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Rig failure. Poor guys. I feel for them. 

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1 hour ago, Rskiff said:

What about all the past AC classes losing there rigs, it happens, move on. 

You're having a laugh right? :D This is SAAC, where every frame of some guy's fishing video that accidentally captures an AC75 in the background is forensically analysed for the smallest iota information for the regulars to argue about.

Of course LR will get back in the water - that is obvious and moot. But this is still an interesting event to discuss particularly as it relates to the design of these boats, which will happen in the proceeding posts, namely:

  • How far along is B2, given this event does it need to modified? Will this impact B2 schedule?
  • Was this failure the first incident of a rumoured design flaw in a supplied part? Will we see others?
  • Did the mast snap or did it come down as result of the failure seen on the deck in earlier videos?
  • What will this do to the wind limit discussion?
  • How will TC turn this into a narrative about GD having snuck into Cagliari in the dead of night with a Sawzall?

Interesting things to ponder...

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It's a lot better to  break it now, than during the match.

(Apologies to fellow kiwis for dredging up THAT memory)

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I vaguely remember Southern Spars saying they had already delivered some spare spars too ...

 

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Didn't see any photographs of splintering carbon.
Broke of at the mastfoot, mast still intact I guess
More photo's tomorrow.
885522469_mastlunarossa.thumb.jpg.8f98f96bc0be3cddb6bba2f4ba811ec0.jpg
1023584674_lunarossa3.thumb.jpg.7192cfd54d7cc0892d32826dc96a5e08.jpg

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1 hour ago, nav said:

m3065_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

m3064_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

 

Top half is o.k. :)

m3063_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1

all lunarossachallenge.com

 

Well, they nailed the end plate effect with the dock. Not sure if it’s fast though. 

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27 minutes ago, Schakel said:

Didn't see any photographs of splintering carbon.
Broke of at the mastfoot, mast still intact I guess
More photo's tomorrow.
885522469_mastlunarossa.thumb.jpg.8f98f96bc0be3cddb6bba2f4ba811ec0.jpg
1023584674_lunarossa3.thumb.jpg.7192cfd54d7cc0892d32826dc96a5e08.jpg

That looks like damage to the mast probably where it struck the hull?

we won’t see what damage was done under the deck to their boom system. I think that could be the most significant and time consuming damage to fix quickly :mellow:

 

D9AB8D5F-72FC-4BB4-A89C-EC237C1981A2.jpeg

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well done uflux .. i had just screen grabbed almost exactly the same area

 

half masted.JPG

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Is it me or it looks more rigging/fitting failure than mast breakage?

It would probably also mean less time off the water. Let's hope so

Michele

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Could have been a shroud that broke or pulled bringing the rig down? Fuck I picked it with that shot showing the weaknesses around the foredeck and mast area. It didn't look good to me.

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top looks like it needs a few hours as well

 

 

mast top.JPG

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2 hours ago, rh3000 said:

What will this do to the wind limit discussion?

Weakens LRers case for lower limits. They appear to be totally self serving.

2 hours ago, rh3000 said:

How will TC turn this into a narrative about GD having snuck into Cagliari in the dead of night with a Sawzall?

As night follows day he'll twist this to blame the Kiwis, the design concept etc.

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39 minutes ago, 17mika said:

Is it me or it looks more rigging/fitting failure than mast breakage?

It would probably also mean less time off the water. Let's hope so

Michele

I think so to, that D section should be able to be incredibly strong given the shape and size of it! Short of a materials failure or engineering it ridiculously light you would think the things attached to it would give way first almolst every time.

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39 minutes ago, 17mika said:

Is it me or it looks more rigging/fitting failure than mast breakage?

It would probably also mean less time off the water. Let's hope so

Michele

I hope so. If the one design portion of the rig is a problem, then we’ve got real issues. Already 0 for 1 on the foil arms. 

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I hope so. If the one design portion of the rig is a problem, then we’ve got real issues. Already 0 for 1 on the foil arms. 

Or if it was the shroud attachment pulling out of the deck then that is squarely on LR! Build a strong boat :blink:

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1 hour ago, Lickindip said:

a few clues to how they are controlling the sail shape

 

m3064_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_1580152770622B.jpg

or maby

a few clews to how they are controlling the sail shape?

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21 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I hope so. If the one design portion of the rig is a problem, then we’ve got real issues. Already 0 for 1 on the foil arms. 

or they didnt design for the known specs of the one design parts

 

if they all break the same thing in the same way .. yehh the one design

if they break different things in different ways .. boat design and crew use

 

not forgetting its a race sailing boat .. things often break

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3 hours ago, rh3000 said:
  • How will TC turn this into a narrative about GD

^^ Do you know what broke:

- The supplied rigging set ?

- The specified mast tube ? if yes, who build it ? Southern Spar ?

-The open hull attachment point ?

If think you can trust the italians to be vocal enough if relevant :)

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Forestay chainplate failure, according to S-W   Not a supplied part

 

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3 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

A lot less damage to boat and rig than if this was a wing sail.

If this was a wing sail, you wouldn’t have a forestay failure :D

 

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Could have been a shroud that broke or pulled bringing the rig down? Fuck I picked it with that shot showing the weaknesses around the foredeck and mast area. It didn't look good to me.

Interesting that the jib tack or forestay didn't seem to be attached to anything...

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35 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Forestay chainplate failure,

Not good. It's going to be at least two weeks before she's back out.

Will Sean Reagan have to go up to instruct them how to build boats?

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6 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Not good. It's going to be at least two weeks before she's back out.

Will Sean Reagan have to go up to instruct them how to build boats?

I wouldn't send Sean. He'd drink all their piss and impregnate their women. ;)

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5 minutes ago, NZL3481 said:

Interesting that the jib tack or forestay didn't seem to be attached to anything...

Probably a shock load they haven't anticipated has done it. Will the crew still have confidence to crank on the loads with this boat? Their main looked very stiff and nice. Who knows what the hidden boom arrangement can do?

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6 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Who knows what the hidden boom arrangement can do

apparently it can break the mast .. just a rumour mind

 

hydraulics ( probably )  v rigging ... only one winner there

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Comments on Sail World article make for some good entertainment...

Never heard of the first guy - anyone?

411375501_ScreenShot2020-01-28at2_46_53PM.png.ed2d4cd7d881ef4eecd361c260a62403.png

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3 minutes ago, Horn Rock said:

Probably a shock load they haven't anticipated has done it. Will the crew still have confidence to crank on the loads with this boat? Their main looked very stiff and nice. Who knows what the hidden boom arrangement can do?

Better it happened now than in a couple of months. They'll be analysing and questioning other areas about now. Any curbed improvements due to time restraints can be implemented now.

A better boat will emerge out of the shed in a coupla weeks. 

And, they have Jimbo the great. He'll work his way round the bend and alight the bowel with new found anti-Deano determination.

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