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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
strider470

Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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13 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

What mistake it was for the italians to retire, sad.

I think the Italians are in a much stronger position now than they would have been had they not pulled out from AC35.

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1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

I believe wrong on this. The flight control system concept was all LR. They gave it to ETNZ, along with fully funded staff and some money. ETNZ team members are happy to confirm this, even if it is only in private. I believe that ETNZ properly developed the concept. I also believe this was the single biggest advantage that ETNZ had over everybody else, because it allowed them to use inherently less stable foils which were lower drag. All the other differences are a smoke screen. The overall package was great, but thge difference was foil control and what that allowed. It is why even after seeing the foils, other teams couldn't copy because they had no way of controlling them.

In the interests of productivity I won't dispute your account of what ETNZ may have told you, as it will simply be a case of "he said, she said".

But I will dispute this continually emerging notion perpetuated by the likes of Wethog and your post that LRs autopilot tech was the magic ingredient to ETNZs win. This is patently false and I will demonstrate with facts! :-)

Firstly, *all* the teams had auto pilot rigs on their boats (maybe not GTF?) that they used in training and practise racing. However they all had to migrate to manual inputs for the proper regatta. This was all as intended - learn and optimise the boat without the variability of human error in flight control, and once that's sorted get good at flying the thing that is already tuned.

And we saw this in the practice footage and early racing - auto = fast and stable, switch to manual = suddenly wild and crashy. Except in ETNZs case. It turns out that relying on a wheel grip for the helmsman is far inferior to a dedicated flight control box handled by someone else. ETNZs manual control configuration was superior and that came as a result of Gashby "throwing the ball" mandate, which resulted in and was enabled exclusively by the use of cyclors and then was made real by some ingenious control interfaces created by ETNZ that still conformed with MC rules.

In fact it was this *manual* control system of ETNZs that won them the cup, not the auto that some allege they got from LR.

Their *manual* performance for foil control permitted those fast foils you mention. No-one could copy them because of how deep this manual solution was, it wasn't just some better software in the herbie (as surely Oracle would have address this) Their wing control system also helped and in the same way wasn't copyable.

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25 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

I think the Italians are in a much stronger position now than they would have been had they not pulled out from AC35.

I am not sure, I would have loved to them in last AC. That said, after AC 34, it was TNZ turn to win.

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Firstly, *all* the teams had auto pilot rigs on their boats (maybe not GTF?) that they used in training and practise racing. However they all had to migrate to manual inputs for the proper regatta. This was all as intended - learn and optimise the boat without the variability of human error in flight control, and once that's sorted get good at flying the thing that is already tuned.

i'm pretty sure that GTF had the autopilot

it was featured in francks video tour of the boat (in his steering cockpit)

really good and interesting videos, it would of been cool if the other teams did that, although i understand why they wouldn't hahaha

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13 minutes ago, inebriated said:

i'm pretty sure that GTF had the autopilot

it was featured in francks video tour of the boat (in his steering cockpit)

really good and interesting videos, it would of been cool if the other teams did that, although i understand why they wouldn't hahaha

This?!

 

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Just now, rh2600 said:

This?!

 

yeah

2:54ish mark

i wonder what drove the team away from having the twist grips?

they seem like they would be so much easier to use and its not like it was a secret innovation, all the teams but them and ETNZ used it

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39 minutes ago, inebriated said:

yeah

2:54ish mark

i wonder what drove the team away from having the twist grips?

they seem like they would be so much easier to use and its not like it was a secret innovation, all the teams but them and ETNZ used it

Depends on who you ask mate...

If you ask me (and some others), Cammas is happy to show his gear here because he knew he was never going to win this thing, and all of the gear was already a generation behind what every other team had. His gear is rudimentary because of low budgets and being somewhat of a late entrant (he's an old friend of Larry's) encouraged by LE in order to bring up the numbers.

I'm sure plenty of their stuff was either IP or physical hand-me-downs from OTUSA/SBTJ. GTF and Cammas were participants, but never seriously entertained winning - that was why it was even more fun to watch them at their best when they spooked the odd other team. 

Why did LE want a non-competitive team there? Simply "The more the merrier?" or to further stack the Challenger Committee with friendlies with nothing to really lose and so doubly less likely to resist OTUSA/ACEA's mandates in their quest to neuter the eventually challenger?

I know where I stand on that one.

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Depends on who you ask mate...

If you ask me (and some others), Cammas is happy to show his gear here because he knew he was never going to win this thing, and all of the gear was already a generation behind what every other team had. His gear is rudimentary because of low budgets and being somewhat of a late entrant (he's an old friend of Larry's) encouraged by LE in order to bring up the numbers.

I'm sure plenty of their stuff was either IP or physical hand-me-downs from OTUSA/SBTJ. GTF and Cammas were participants, but never seriously entertained winning - that was why it was even more fun to watch them at their best when they spooked the odd other team. 

Why did LE want a non-competitive team there? Simply "The more the merrier?" or to further stack the Challenger Committee with friendlies with nothing to really lose and so doubly less likely to resist OTUSA/ACEA's mandates in their quest to neuter the eventually challenger?

I know where I stand on that one.

haha yeah

i think i'm of a different opinion

franck seemed like a pretty cool guy and i kinda hope he somehow makes it to the next ac by some magical force

how sick would an AC75 in that colour scheme be

they didn't have the tech but they had the aesthetics for sure ahahaha

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1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

And we saw this in the practice footage and early racing - auto = fast and stable, switch to manual = suddenly wild and crashy. Except in ETNZs case. It turns out that relying on a wheel grip for the helmsman is far inferior to a dedicated flight control box handled by someone else. ETNZs manual control configuration was superior and that came as a result of Gashby "throwing the ball" mandate, which resulted in and was enabled exclusively by the use of cyclors and then was made real by some ingenious control interfaces created by ETNZ that still conformed with MC rules.

In fact it was this *manual* control system of ETNZs that won them the cup, not the auto that some allege they got from LR.

We agree that it was the flight control system. I have never said it was an auto system. The concept of the joy stick and using it to match an optimised position is what won them the AC.

I believe you have things the wrong way around. ETNZ developed a very good auto control system, not LR. This was programmed using both on water testing and also their simulator, which accurately predicted behaviour on the water. The problem other teams had was that they had no way of replicating the auto control in manual mode, because their systems were linear step controls. What ETNZ had was the single, 2 dimensional control operated by Tuke, through the joystick. It was the concepts behind that system that LR developed and it is that system that I believe won them the AC. 

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59 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

We agree that it was the flight control system. I have never said it was an auto system. The concept of the joy stick and using it to match an optimised position is what won them the AC.

I believe you have things the wrong way around. ETNZ developed a very good auto control system, not LR. This was programmed using both on water testing and also their simulator, which accurately predicted behaviour on the water. The problem other teams had was that they had no way of replicating the auto control in manual mode, because their systems were linear step controls. What ETNZ had was the single, 2 dimensional control operated by Tuke, through the joystick. It was the concepts behind that system that LR developed and it is that system that I believe won them the AC

I don't know why you give so much credit to ETNZ's foil control system when because of the cyclors they were the only team that had enough hands to operate such a system.

ETNZ had a wonderful package that could not be copied by the other competitors and this resulted from their management and security systems.  I don't believe that it is possible to allocate any one part of their package as the reason that they won the cup.

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2 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

I don't know why you give so much credit to ETNZ's foil control system when because of the cyclors they were the only team that had enough hands to operate such a system.

The hands were only worth if you had the system, the others could have done the same with the system.

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1 minute ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The hands were only worth if you had the system, the others could have done the same with the system.

The other competitors could not even consider anything like ETNZ's system because they only had two pairs of hands .. ETNZ had a designated person to take care of the foil control.

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3 hours ago, rh2600 said:

In fact it was this *manual* control system of ETNZs that won them the cup, not the auto that some allege they got from LR.

 

1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

I believe you have things the wrong way around. ETNZ developed a very good auto control system, not LR.

You are both wrong! What came from LR was the overall concept of how to link the auto system to the manual system. This is the big advantage that they got so upset about losing when the boat was changed, even though in the end ETNZ proved it was the difference. The basics are that the inputs were tested in a simulator, tried in auto mode on the water and then matched by joystick once proven. That was the LR concept, which ETNZ managed to fully develop, or at least develop to teh point of being able to use less stable, lower drag foils.

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1 hour ago, Terry Hollis said:

The other competitors could not even consider anything like ETNZ's system because they only had two pairs of hands .. ETNZ had a designated person to take care of the foil control.

Replacing the grinders with cycles could have been done overnight, it was just not necessary as without the system they did not need it.

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2 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

We agree that it was the flight control system. I have never said it was an auto system. The concept of the joy stick and using it to match an optimised position is what won them the AC.

I believe you have things the wrong way around. ETNZ developed a very good auto control system, not LR. This was programmed using both on water testing and also their simulator, which accurately predicted behaviour on the water. The problem other teams had was that they had no way of replicating the auto control in manual mode, because their systems were linear step controls. What ETNZ had was the single, 2 dimensional control operated by Tuke, through the joystick. It was the concepts behind that system that LR developed and it is that system that I believe won them the AC. 

This is where we'll have to agree to disagree...

From my point of view ETNZ was entirely responsible for the manual control system - as mentioned I've had the opportunity to physically handle it and hear from the horse's mouth what it consisted of... It was born out of such rough macgyver genius even down to the computer hardware that there's simply no way in my mind it came from LR - purely because it was still so prototypical even as ETNZ entered the finals.

Tuke actually only had one dimension of control on his unit ;-) AoA

In any event we are heading down a road where the argument from various contributors is now "etnz manual won thanks to LRs auto" and "etnz auto won thanks to LRs manual" - perhaps you guys could get together and figure out which angle you want to shoot for and then come back to us ;-)

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

 

You are both wrong! What came from LR was the overall concept of how to link the auto system to the manual system. This is the big advantage that they got so upset about losing when the boat was changed, even though in the end ETNZ proved it was the difference. The basics are that the inputs were tested in a simulator, tried in auto mode on the water and then matched by joystick once proven. That was the LR concept, which ETNZ managed to fully develop, or at least develop to teh point of being able to use less stable, lower drag foils.

And this is just wandering down the middle of the road of ambiguous double speak mate ;-)

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Replacing the grinders with cycles could have been done overnight...

Utter horseshit in any meaningful context...

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5 hours ago, inebriated said:

haha yeah

i think i'm of a different opinion

franck seemed like a pretty cool guy and i kinda hope he somehow makes it to the next ac by some magical force

how sick would an AC75 in that colour scheme be

they didn't have the tech but they had the aesthetics for sure ahahaha

IMHO Franck is a fucking world-class legend! He deserved to be at Bermuda, and he deserved any result he managed to get. It was awesome to see GTF flying at the seat of their pants barely keeping it all together, but at times getting in the zone and embarrassing other teams who should have been better - (hint it includes OTUSA, but excludes ETNZ).

But I chose not to conflate my admiration for Cammas for what purpose their presence served OTUSA at Bermuda. As far as LE is concerned, this manoeuvre is a merely a dabble for him when one considers the aggressive techniques and tactics he and OTUSA have employed in the past against (equal cunts) Alinghi, and ETNZ.

You can even hear it from the fucking horses mouth ;-)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/67664440/oracle-design-secrets-gifted-to-struggling-french-americas-cup-team

But Cammas, who told the radio station they were still searching for funding to find the "€7 million per year to be in the America's Cup with a chance to win", said they'd been given a helping hand by Oracle.

"We have some very good news: the Americans, Oracle, have decided to share their design and to collaborate with Team France," Cammas said.

"So that lets us make up a lot of time and we'll be sure to have the best boat, if we compete. So that will let us make up a lot of time and give us a certain level of technical credibility."

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5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Utter horseshit in any meaningful context...

It is was not a technogical problem, the only limitation was the time to train the legs of the crew, but the reason for success was not the global power delivered, it was the ability to free a few hands.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

It is was not a technogical problem, the only limitation was the time to train the legs of the crew, but the reason for success was not the global power delivered, it was the ability to free a few hands.

You're aware the config also enabled their wing system. And the accumulator setup was also entirely different.

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2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

You're aware the config also enabled their wing system. And the accumulator setup was also entirely different.

I know, the wing system designed by GA had his role, but my guess is that the key factor was the control system which allowed less stable, thus faster, foils.

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would i be right in thinking that the wing sheet being hydraulic was unique to ETNZ and an advantage over mechanical

it would mean that the grinders/cyclors wouldn't have to reverse directions at all to wind the sheet on

meaning the cyclors just had to get oil up

i know GTF had a mechanical transfer, and i'm assuming that the rest of the teams had it too (is there any way to convert hydraulic pressure to rotary force?)

and i think that this may have been a small reason why oracle had the shitshow cyclor at the beck, to get one more person off wing sheer grinding and on oil

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2 minutes ago, inebriated said:

would i be right in thinking that the wing sheet being hydraulic was unique to ETNZ and an advantage over mechanical

it would mean that the grinders/cyclors wouldn't have to reverse directions at all to wind the sheet on

meaning the cyclors just had to get oil up

i know GTF had a mechanical transfer, and i'm assuming that the rest of the teams had it too (is there any way to convert hydraulic pressure to rotary force?)

and i think that this may have been a small reason why oracle had the shitshow cyclor at the beck, to get one more person off wing sheer grinding and on oil

Nah...

All grinders produced hydro

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On 1/26/2018 at 1:10 PM, A Class Sailor said:

I believe wrong on this. The flight control system concept was all LR.

:lol:..keep spouting that rubbish, only the cheaters' sycophants like you and spinray want to believe it. The control system was developed in-house AFTER the foil designs had been decided on...not the cart-before-horse wet fantasy of yours.

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Luna-Rossa-base-Cagliari.jpg

Cagliari - The Luna Rossa team that has chosen the city of Cagliari for the training sessions that will prepare its crew for the next America's Cup challenge this time will not use the Pier Sabaudo, in the northern area of the port, but the Ichnusa pier right in the center of this, at the former Cruise terminal.

In addition to those of the maritime authority, other areas will also be made available to Luna Rossa.

At the Ichnusa pier, which is closer to the main arteries of the city, the facilities needed by the team are largely already in place. The new location will reach two goals, giving the right privacy to the team that needs reserved and protected spaces where to develop and test the boats and to respond to the requests of the city to have Luna Rossa visible and at the center of attention.

All authorizations should arrive quickly and then move on to the executive phase to create the new Luna Rossa base where the team will live for about 40 months until moving to Aukland in New Zealand.

Although the base has not yet been realized, the team has been in Cagliari for several weeks and will start a second training phase on 11 February.

Gtran: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.solovela.net/Luna%20Rossa%20far%C3%A0%20base%20al%20Molo%20Ichnusa%20nel%20porto%20di%20Cagliari%26Web_paginastatica%3Fpag%3Dpopup_news%26ID%3D1349586%26doc%3Dsi&prev=search

Similar at: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.comunecagliarinews.it/rassegnastampa.php%3Fpagina%3D61399&prev=search

 

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8 hours ago, strider470 said:

The article could be based on just this tweet, with a photo that must be from at least 10 yrs back, but who knows? JS was also mentioned in one of the BMQR vids.

https://mobile.twitter.com/mike2dot0/status/960280423891984384

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Why would a well organised and funded challange take on a losing skipper who had a major say in the running of a failed defence, when they already have experienced staff who were part of a sucessful challange? Fake news.

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3 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Why would a well organised and funded challange take on a losing skipper who had a major say in the running of a failed defence, when they already have experienced staff who were part of a sucessful challange? Fake news.

who else are they going to get?

i don't see any better alternative for them hahaha

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22 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

Missed it earlier, a pic of what definitely looks to be a recent photo of JS 

spithill.jpg

Checking out seek.co.nz

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On 06/02/2018 at 8:56 AM, Woolfy said:

Why would a well organised and funded challange take on a losing skipper who had a major say in the running of a failed defence, when they already have experienced staff who were part of a sucessful challange? Fake news.

I'll FIFY

Why wouldn't a well organised and funded challenge take on a winning skipper who had a major say in the biggest comeback of all time. 

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3 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

I'll FIFY

Why wouldn't a well organised and funded challenge take on a winning skipper who had a major say in the biggest comeback of all time. 

One of Bertelli’s biggest gripes about the DoG Match was around his loss of JS and others, to LE. 

There could be a bit of a bidding war down the line here shortly, between QR and LR.

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Maybe. On the other hand if either team were interested, why would the deal not have been closed months ago?

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By Suzanne McFadden

At the helm of Luna Rossa, but pining for NZ

Massimiliano “Max” Sirena is doing all he can to win the America’s Cup for Italy, after 20 years’ trying. And yet he longs to live in New Zealand and spend his days off riding motorbikes with his friend and foe, Grant Dalton, as Suzanne McFadden reports. 

In Cagliari – the majestic and historic castled capital of Sardinia – Max Sirena has begun to build a new generation of Luna Rossa.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/@sportsroom/2018/02/07/81861/at-the-helm-of-luna-rossa-but-pining-for-nz

 

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On 2/8/2018 at 3:08 AM, dogwatch said:

Maybe. On the other hand if either team were interested, why would the deal not have been closed months ago?

It takes two to agree to a deal?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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On 2/7/2018 at 11:40 PM, A Class Sailor said:

I'll FIFY

Why wouldn't a well organised and funded challenge take on a winning skipper who had a major say in the biggest comeback of all time. 

 

Maybe because more recently when he was in o/a charge he was on the receiving end of a much bigger butt kicking??

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On 27/01/2018 at 1:05 AM, Tornado-Cat said:

It is was not a technogical problem, the only limitation was the time to train the legs of the crew, but the reason for success was not the global power delivered, it was the ability to free a few hands.

The hands free advantage was only realised by opposing teams during the racing when ETNZ was kicking butt. No one seemed to have figured that out before hand.

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

The hands free advantage was only realised by opposing teams during the racing when ETNZ was kicking butt. No one seemed to have figured that out before hand.

Cammas had done it years before hand :)

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

The hands free advantage was only realised by opposing teams during the racing when ETNZ was kicking butt. No one seemed to have figured that out before hand.

Plenty of us pointed out that potential advantage as soon as the cycles were revealed in Auckland.

It would have been too late for other teams too but I noticed a curious news article about a month before the reveal, where an ETNZ crew member, not the cyclist, had participated and had placed well in a road race, on his bike. While it did seem a bit ‘really? that must take serious commitment!’ I didn’t bother posting the link, thinking it was too unlikely that there was much to it. In hindsight it would have been a fun, speculative, scoop.

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49 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

Plenty of us pointed out that potential advantage as soon as the cycles were revealed in Auckland.

It would have been too late for other teams too but I noticed a curious news article about a month before the reveal, where an ETNZ crew member, not the cyclist, had participated and had placed well in a road race, on his bike. While it did seem a bit ‘really? that must take serious commitment!’ I didn’t bother posting the link, thinking it was too unlikely that there was much to it. In hindsight it would have been a fun, speculative, scoop.

Hmmm, from coverage I saw of the challenger series, KR didn't have a clue how ETNZ were flying the boat, he assumed Burling was with the buttons on the wheel. It wasn't until at least the LV finals or even later that there was mention of Tuke flying the boat - KR seemed more interested in Ashby's xbox. It wasn't till after the event that it emerged that the bloke in front of Tuke also flew the boat while Tuke crossed the tramp.

I'm not privy to inside info, but we were well into the event before I heard anything about the handsfree advantage, which kinda makes sense as people didn't really speculate that much about ETNZ until it became obvious they had a kick arse system and boat.

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1 hour ago, Horn Rock said:

Hmmm, from coverage I saw of the challenger series, KR didn't have a clue how ETNZ were flying the boat, he assumed Burling was with the buttons on the wheel. It wasn't until at least the LV finals or even later that there was mention of Tuke flying the boat - KR seemed more interested in Ashby's xbox. It wasn't till after the event that it emerged that the bloke in front of Tuke also flew the boat while Tuke crossed the tramp.

I'm not privy to inside info, but we were well into the event before I heard anything about the handsfree advantage, which kinda makes sense as people didn't really speculate that much about ETNZ until it became obvious they had a kick arse system and boat.

Korrect

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2 hours ago, Horn Rock said:

Hmmm, from coverage I saw of the challenger series, KR didn't have a clue how ETNZ were flying the boat, he assumed Burling was with the buttons on the wheel. It wasn't until at least the LV finals or even later that there was mention of Tuke flying the boat - KR seemed more interested in Ashby's xbox. It wasn't till after the event that it emerged that the bloke in front of Tuke also flew the boat while Tuke crossed the tramp.

I'm not privy to inside info, but we were well into the event before I heard anything about the handsfree advantage, which kinda makes sense as people didn't really speculate that much about ETNZ until it became obvious they had a kick arse system and boat.

The hands free advantage was obvious from the moment ETNZ made the public aware of their cyclors .. I posted that point out in this forum on the same day .. the fact that some people overlooked the advantage is their problem.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

The hands free advantage was obvious from the moment ETNZ made the public aware of their cyclors .. I posted that point out in this forum on the same day .. the fact that some people overlooked the advantage is their problem.

KR and myself obviously didn't read your post Terry and we remained ignorant.

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^ we posted plenty of photos of the various iterations of 'Tuke's controls' as well from reveal day onwards

"Nah mate, we've checked it out- waste of bloody time"

none so blind etc

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6 hours ago, nav said:

^ we posted plenty of photos of the various iterations of 'Tuke's controls' as well from reveal day onwards

"Nah mate, we've checked it out- waste of bloody time"

none so blind etc

From memory, they really only started getting excited over ETNZ's control system when freeze-frame snips after their nose-dive against LR-BAR showed the touch-screen devices Burling and Tuke were using.

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from http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2018/02/14/building-new-generation-sailors/

... Luna Rossa also announces the entry in the team of two highly qualified and talented sailors:
• Shannon Falcone – two times America’s Cup winner over six challenges, two Volvo Ocean Race campaigns, Transatlantic, Transpac, Bermuda and Hobart Race record holder.
• Pietro Sibello – two Olympic participations, European Champion and three Bronze World Medals in the 49er class and now at his second America’s Cup challenge with Luna Rossa.

edit, at LR: http://www.lunarossachallenge.com/en/news/223_XXXVI-AMERICA-S-CUP-LUNA-ROSSA-NEW-GENERATION-PROJECT

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Bertelli, Sirena and others to be in Rome on March 12, talking AC36

http://www.saily.it/it/article/il-velista-dellanno-fiv-ecco-tutti-i-finalisti

Il 12 marzo a Roma si assegna il premio Velista dell'Anno FIV 2017, edizione numero 24, organizzato con la partnership di Federvela e UCINA da Acciari Consulting. .. Tavola rotonda con Patrizio Bertelli e Max Sirena sull'America's Cup.

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1 hour ago, nav said:

^ running in? ;)

It at least gives a view of where the new base is going. Near the end you can see the building that had apparently been built as a cruise ship terminal but iirc the water there is somehow too shallow so it’s useless for that purpose.. maybe ships have gotten too big? edit, see Ichnusa at this Gtran: https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.unionesarda.it/articolo/cronaca/2016/07/22/cagliari_ha_il_nuovo_terminal_mai_pi_i_croceristi_senzatetto-68-517861.html&xid=17259,15700022,15700105,15700124,15700126,15700149,15700168,15700173,15700201&usg=ALkJrhgCa7rhp31KU1OjOHv17b3UrlFwWA

Cagliari being a good-sized city, we’ll hopefully see more coverage posted over time - perhaps even taken by ferry passengers.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~~ said:

Cagliari being a good-sized city, we’ll hopefully see more coverage posted over time - perhaps even taken by ferry passengers.

:lol: Of what? That generic little non-foiling, wingless, sailless speedboat?

Oh yes, I can just see thousands lining the rails to film that.

Seems to have decent batteries at least - most important.

Is it a Macgregor?

Onwards and upwards....

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25 minutes ago, nav said:

:lol: Of what? That generic little non-foiling, wingless, sailless speedboat?

Oh yes, I can just see thousands lining the rails to film that.

Seems to have decent batteries at least - most important.

Is it a Macgregor?

Onwards and upwards....

The coming JC75’s of course - preceeded by any possible (non) surrogates. And yes, you can already find touristy videos taken and posted by passengers arriving and departing Cagliari.

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13 minutes ago, nav said:

^ Ah, you mean crash videos - now those are always popular.

Ha, yes those could for sure attract crowds along the rails.

The way LR began their AC35 campaign was with a big effort, two simultaneous T boats running well ahead of anyone else, followed later by claims of a Design head start. This could be fun to follow, best we can.

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1 hour ago, nav said:

:lol: Of what? That generic little non-foiling, wingless, sailless speedboat?

Oh yes, I can just see thousands lining the rails to film that.

Seems to have decent batteries at least - most important.

Is it a Macgregor?

Onwards and upwards....

Even though spinbot hates Max, PB, LR and Prada he's added this to his spank bank...

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