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Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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29 minutes ago, Indio said:

3 months, evidently.

Makes sense.  It's three months to the AC and INEOS appear to have revealed their last set.  If three months is accurate, we should see others splashing their last set soon, and there would be no reason not to use them during the Christmas Cup.

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1 minute ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Makes sense.  It's three months to the AC and INEOS appear to have revealed their last set.  If three months is accurate, we should see others splashing their last set soon, and there would be no reason not to use them during the Christmas Cup.

The 3-months was from Dan Bernasconi in one of his interviews..

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Moving from Archimedean craft to foilers – and particularly to foils – demands a new mindset as much as it does a new approach to composite construction and engineering

Persico
https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/150-content/december-2019/834-almost-a-clean-sheet-of-paper?_gl=1*l32dwo*_ga*YW1wLTRzdkFSVGtrdDZsTjdjR0R4RHBxaV9JcUFKUWdobWwwSWM0Q1QtNklqZnA0TFYyRnBBMEVNV0ZsMmhDN2xjWUU.

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33 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Moving from Archimedean craft to foilers – and particularly to foils – demands a new mindset as much as it does a new approach to composite construction and engineering

Persico
https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/150-content/december-2019/834-almost-a-clean-sheet-of-paper?_gl=1*l32dwo*_ga*YW1wLTRzdkFSVGtrdDZsTjdjR0R4RHBxaV9JcUFKUWdobWwwSWM0Q1QtNklqZnA0TFYyRnBBMEVNV0ZsMmhDN2xjWUU.

What is perhaps not known is that Persico Marine is really a vanity project within the much larger Persico Group (industrial molds, automotive, plastics). It began as a way to keep one of the 2nd generation happy, but the funny thing is that through the association with LR  Persico is much more known in Italy for that, than all the rest

 

 

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18 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

first team to make sushi out of Flipper on live TV..? 

It'll make a change from Bermudan Turtle Soup.

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1 hour ago, Nutta said:

It'll make a change from Bermudan Turtle Soup.

Geez ETNZ got lucky with the rudder in BDA hitting that small turtle at the bottom gate. A dolphin or Orca in AK would be game over

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9 hours ago, fish7yu said:

 

Interesting vid. 

1)Those are everyones  Xmas presents sitting on container ships off Auckland for several weeks. 

2) That rig either has some serious control feathering the main constantly, or it's sloppy as an old flagpole. Some forestay sag, are they running lower loads after their disaster in the med? Looks like a big jib (#2?) for those conditions. Racing these in 20 knots is going to be wild. 

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2 hours ago, Nutta said:

It'll make a change from Bermudan Turtle Soup.

trickier to gloss over I imagine, dolphin probably leaks a bit more that turtle?

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2 hours ago, minimumfuss said:

Geez ETNZ got lucky with the rudder in BDA hitting that small turtle at the bottom gate. A dolphin or Orca in AK would be game over

Says the turtle/dolphin/orca. 

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3 hours ago, minimumfuss said:

That rig either has some serious control feathering the main constantly, or it's sloppy as an old flagpole. Some forestay sag, are they running lower loads after their disaster in the med? Looks like a big jib (#2?) for those conditions. Racing these in 20 knots is going to be wild. 

I beg you: please tell me they’re doing something right ...

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19 hours ago, Indio said:

I wonder if LR-PP have an auto-switching pressure plate or wheel pressure grip to disengage one wheel when one of the two helmsmen takes over from the other..

No.  Un-necessary complexity and weight.

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^^^ In these stills LR always looks to be riding quite high. Does their hull shape preclude them from flying flat and low, or will they need bow down trim to get that low rider aspect?

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No, I think they generally fly level rather than nose-down, but not any higher than the others.

Possibly they still do have some issues with height stability though - they are certainly not as stable in ride height as Te Rehutai is.

DSC_2550.JPG

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If they're flying level, they're not getting the degree of end plating seal, because of the greater rocker in their keel profile.

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22 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

trickier to gloss over I imagine, dolphin probably leaks a bit more that turtle?

I maintain there's no such thing as a dolphin. There is bottlenose tuna though...

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35 minutes ago, bortolo said:

 

I guess killer whales can make any potential MOB situation a bit too thrilling?

 

How do these boats react when they hit something big?  Wasn't there some guy that got really hurt at the Dubai Moth worlds a few years ago when he hit some kind of sunfish?

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Murray postponed a race on SF Bay once, due to there being a whale up by Sausalito, near the course. 
 

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48 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Murray postponed a race on SF Bay once, due to there being a whale up by Sausalito, near the course. 
 

What would do more damage: the impact damage of AC75 foil vs whale skull, or the optics of an AC75 making cetacean sashimi on international televiewing?

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1 minute ago, RMac said:

What would do more damage: the impact damage of AC75 foil vs whale skull, or the optics of an AC75 making cetacean sashimi on international televiewing?

At least we would get plenty of valid speed references with all the seagulls flying in to pick up the chum. 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Murray postponed a race on SF Bay once, due to there being a whale up by Sausalito, near the course. 
 

A wise move, I'd have thought. ;-)

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1 hour ago, RMac said:

What would do more damage: the impact damage of AC75 foil vs whale skull, or the optics of an AC75 making cetacean sashimi on international televiewing?

Neither one would be pretty! 

You’d think that structurally a main foil impact to something heavy could be devastating, given the length of the arm and the resulting ‘torque’ on the FCS.. yikes

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47 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Neither one would be pretty! 

You’d think that structurally a main foil impact to something heavy could be devastating, given the length of the arm and the resulting ‘torque’ on the FCS.. yikes

Those arms are pretty damned robust considering they are supporting a 7600 kilo boat travelling at 50+ knots with no known failures to date.

 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Those arms are pretty damned robust considering they are supporting a 7600 kilo boat travelling at 50+ knots with no known failures to date.

 

For sure, very impressive and I doubt dolphin slices would be a danger to the crew. 
 

Am just wondering what hitting (at the extreme end) a rock might do, would the boat turn fast enough to take the torque or would the FCS housing structure disintegrate first? Do whales frequent the Hauraki? 

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28 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

 Do whales frequent the Hauraki? 

Yes, whales, orca and dolphin are all common. 

Whales are less common in the inner gulf where the courses are. 

Edited by kenergy
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14 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Course C

F4ABB808-B55B-48F9-B1A1-BECAABA41634.thumb.jpeg.2f8cd8e47e6af657ff0a81074d72991c.jpeg

 

Note the spray: it’s ground effect

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7 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Great 360° I haven't seen any other team completing that on a video.

Practising for when they shoot the start line early?  :lol:

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10 hours ago, MaxHugen said:

Practising for when they shoot the start line early?  :lol:

Golf clap <_<

And FYI, the penalty would be dropping back

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21 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Great 360° I haven't seen any other team completing that on a video.

 

It’s certainly striking - as an example, it set FareVela’s record of views so far

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17 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Thought the correct protocol was to do the donuts after the victory:P

 

 

 

That's the problem with having two helmsmen. When they get to a roundabout, they can't decide which exit to take.

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6 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That's the problem with having two helmsmen. When they get to a roundabout, they can't decide which exit to take.

Crikey that duopoly is going to make for some interesting pre start action.

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21 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Course C

F4ABB808-B55B-48F9-B1A1-BECAABA41634.thumb.jpeg.2f8cd8e47e6af657ff0a81074d72991c.jpeg

 

These are Orca's which are not actually whales. The term "Killer Whale" comes from a spanish mis-translation of "killer of whales".

They are from the dolphin family and are common in Akld. One of the things about living in Akld is that you can see a pod of Orca on the ferry on the way to work.

 

 

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35 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

These are Orca's which are not actually whales. The term "Killer Whale" comes from a spanish mis-translation of "killer of whales".

They are from the dolphin family and are common in Akld. One of the things about living in Akld is that you can see a pod of Orca on the ferry on the way to work.

 

 

And whales too...

The famous waving whale of the sparkling Waitemata.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/aucklander/news/whale-spotted-off-aucklands-waterfront/MIK7EM7J2UEHJAGAV4TSNYL67U/CIIQHWJEP2DKQVNVWE7NZDCQJE.thumb.jpg.3f4cd4acced3fc3d55647c48cf77b897.jpg

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New to me, from https://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/facts-about-orcas/

How do orcas sleep?

Orcas sleep in a very different way to humans. We have a breathing reflex and when we sleep or become unconscious, we continue to breath automatically. Orcas cannot sleep in this way, they have to remain conscious, even when they are sleeping! This is because their breathing is not automatic - they have to actively decide when to breath, and so they must be conscious even when sleeping. If like us, orcas went into a deep unconscious sleep, they would stop breathing and suffocate or drown.

To get around this, orcas only allow one half of their brains to sleep at a time; the other half stays alert enabling them to continue breathing whilst looking out for dangers in the environment. They only close one eye when they sleep; the left eye will be closed when the right half of the brain sleeps, and vice versa. This type of sleep is known as unihemispheric sleep as only one brain hemisphere sleeps at a time. Orcas periodically alternate which side is sleeping so that they can get the rest they need without ever losing consciousness. When sleeping, orcas swim very slowly and steadily, close to the surface.

 

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46 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

These are Orca's which are not actually whales. The term "Killer Whale" comes from a spanish mis-translation of "killer of whales".

They are from the dolphin family and are common in Akld. One of the things about living in Akld is that you can see a pod of Orca on the ferry on the way to work.

Whatever ... as long as they don’t bite

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

These are Orca's which are not actually whales. The term "Killer Whale" comes from a spanish mis-translation of "killer of whales".

They are from the dolphin family and are common in Akld. One of the things about living in Akld is that you can see a pod of Orca on the ferry on the way to work.

 

 

Where do they work?

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2 hours ago, Zaal said:

New video by Justin Mitchell 

 

On 12/4/2020 at 7:40 AM, Horn Rock said:

If they're flying level, they're not getting the degree of end plating seal, because of the greater rocker in their keel profile.

 

Painfully slow and high ... hopeless

And as HR correctly points out, the  keel rocker prevents getting real close to the water where it should matter most, i.e. from abeam of the mast to half main chord aft. Instead, they’re achieving that well forward of the mast. How could they make such a stupid mistake?

 

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32 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Instead, they’re achieving that well forward of the mast.

Surely that’s the sweet spot considering the AWA’s? 

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Surely that’s the sweet spot considering the AWA’s? 

Not really: consider where winglets are in relation to wing chord

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7 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Not really: consider where winglets are in relation to wing chord

? If you want to endplate the rig, especially the luff where the lift happens, then given the AWA it seems intuitive to water-endplate forward. Aft of that could cost more in weight and drag than necessary. 
 

Someone here recently likened the AM hull to a tadpole, that aquatic reference makes some sense even without 17 degrees apparent. 

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Not taking any chances ... Stefano Beltrando - boss of QI Composites, probably the best known inspection and non-destructive testing outfit in the business - was already a member of the LR technical team and is currently flying to AKL for the duration

008D1174-C9D4-4DDE-94AD-98FB448601F0.jpeg

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Have we seen this low aspect ratio jib on LR before?

5EBBE032-1CDE-47A3-9A8E-A21D5A207E31.jpeg

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8 minutes ago, uflux said:

Have we seen this low aspect ratio jib on LR before?

5EBBE032-1CDE-47A3-9A8E-A21D5A207E31.jpeg

Four fifths of fuck all breeze and fanging it with a storm jib pretty impressive.

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I think this is the video that compliments that shot. Some nice light air,.almost perfect manoeuvres...

 

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29 minutes ago, barfy said:

Some nice light air,.almost perfect manoeuvres...

They're running those big foils very deep - lots of foil arm in the water to get that nose down for end-plating. Is that going to be fast? I'm not sure. Their manoeuvers do look good though.

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Vittorio and Pietro noted something about LR grinders. Since the coffee grinders are less efficient when the knobs are both in the vertical position, and most efficient when they are both horizontal, LR grinders are put in a way that when one grinder is in the least efficient grinding position the one in front of him is in the best grinding position. This maximize the power output The grinding machines are probably not perfectly one in front of the other but lightly staggered, so the grinders can stay closer, without crashing their heads. Ineos solution is similar, the grinders are side by side, looking outside the boat, and maybe it's even better because all the grinders are grinding forward (sorry for the repetitions). They still don't know about AM, while it's probably difficult for ETNZ to adopt this solution, since there's probably not enough space in their pods. 

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

? If you want to endplate the rig, especially the luff where the lift happens, then given the AWA it seems intuitive to water-endplate forward. Aft of that could cost more in weight and drag than necessary. 
 

 

4 hours ago, uflux said:

Have we seen this low aspect ratio jib on LR before?

5EBBE032-1CDE-47A3-9A8E-A21D5A207E31.jpeg

 

Yet another unqualified comment, but the picture sort of confirms my “feeling” that the funny jib - like a slat - essentially serves to organize airflow to the main, that’s where the heavy work / pressure differential / bypass vortices should take place. Ergo, why does LR keep the seal forward?

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6 hours ago, barfy said:

I think this is the video that compliments that shot. Some nice light air,.almost perfect manoeuvres...

 

LR still has one crew member still changing side behind the sail, I thought they all stay on their side.

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3 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

 

Yet another unqualified comment, but the picture sort of confirms my “feeling” that the funny jib - like a slat - essentially serves to organize airflow to the main, that’s where the heavy work / pressure differential / bypass vortices should take place. Ergo, why does LR keep the seal forward?

That’s kind of te job of the jib mate. Jibs make very little power compared to the main as anyone who has ever sailed jib only will know. They act as over sized slats and make the main quite a bit more efficient. Also the jib has a problem if it’s creating vortices.

I guess you could have extended battens creating small vortices in the same way the Harrier has vortex generators on its leading edge. (OD mast means you cant add aero fuckery to the mast afaik) but how you would make sure the vortices stay on the right side and swap sides properly without creating the opposite effect seems difficult. 

But what do I know I’m not an AC aerodynamicist. 

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On 12/6/2020 at 10:21 AM, Stingray~ said:

New to me, from https://us.whales.org/whales-dolphins/facts-about-orcas/

How do orcas sleep?

Orcas sleep in a very different way to humans. We have a breathing reflex and when we sleep or become unconscious, we continue to breath automatically. Orcas cannot sleep in this way, they have to remain conscious, even when they are sleeping! This is because their breathing is not automatic - they have to actively decide when to breath, and so they must be conscious even when sleeping. If like us, orcas went into a deep unconscious sleep, they would stop breathing and suffocate or drown.

To get around this, orcas only allow one half of their brains to sleep at a time; the other half stays alert enabling them to continue breathing whilst looking out for dangers in the environment. They only close one eye when they sleep; the left eye will be closed when the right half of the brain sleeps, and vice versa. This type of sleep is known as unihemispheric sleep as only one brain hemisphere sleeps at a time. Orcas periodically alternate which side is sleeping so that they can get the rest they need without ever losing consciousness. When sleeping, orcas swim very slowly and steadily, close to the surface.

 

A bit like most Anarchists who only turn on half their brain at a time:D

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5 hours ago, The_Alchemist said:

LR still has one crew member still changing side behind the sail, I thought they all stay on their side.

Pietro SIbello, the mainsail trimmer, moves to windward after most manouvres.

 

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1 hour ago, Zaal said:

English version 

Interesting. So, how much more output can two grinders make on a pedestal, with one starting at TDC and the other at 90 degrees?

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Rewatching the 2000 LV cup that the AC channel just put up on youtube, am I the only one who misses the IACC nationality reqs? As convenient as it is to hear every skipper talking in English, the different languages onboard back then really made it feel like an international sporting event of nations against nations, not just a scrap for the title of best aussie/kiwi former dinghy olympian.

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There is lots to like about one design regattas, especially nation against nation.

But I love these flying machines and I love dreaming of the trickle down benefits as well.

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