strider470

Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

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from the Gtran,

You are preparing for the Cup by participating in the TP52 Super Series, but what are the contact points with the Ac75, single-hulled with ballasted foil, without keel and double mainsail? What is the advantage of practicing on a boat like the TP?

That of Tp is today the most professional circuit that exists; if we did not run with the TP we would not have done anything as a team. The Extreme is very interesting as a circuit and the GC32 are faster boats, but speed is not everything: in the meantime in the boat there would be only 5 people, and then missing the columns, the boat, the shore team ... from a point of view of team building, to create the amalgam, we need to train more in a circuit like that of TP.

But the final boat will be completely different ...

Yes, but it will also be from a GC32! We had to choose whether to stand still for the whole 2018 or prepare for the TP. And that's fine for us.

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4 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ Zero news

 

Thanks. Looks like VV is still a sharp guy though, good to see.

This coming TP52 season could be hot.

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Philippe Presti may even be a stonger asset to LR than JS.

The combination is especially good, they have some very successful history. There are many good videos on the OR YouTube channel he features in, doing race replay assessments and tactical planning strategies. Cerebral and positive guy, JS seems to rate him.

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On 3/22/2018 at 12:23 AM, Stingray~ said:

The combination is especially good, they have some very successful history. There are many good videos on the OR YouTube channel he features in, doing race replay assessments and tactical planning strategies. Cerebral and positive guy, JS seems to rate him.

They combined for a stunning result last time - worth every Lira

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6 minutes ago, nav said:

They combined for a stunning result last time - worth every Lira

The fact that there is is only one winner in any regatta does not make for a reasonable excuse to constantly denigrate everyone else who participated hard.

But since you do that regardless, it’d be kinda fun to see JS lead LR while kicking some NZ ass in Auckland, come ‘21 :D 

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The fact that there is is only one winner in any regatta does not make for a reasonable excuse to constantly denigrate everyone else who participated hard.

But since you do that regardless, it’d be kinda fun to see JS lead LR while kicking some NZ ass in Auckland, come ‘21 :D 

Good luck with that.

Since you seem to be doing their PR, are you claiming them as 3rd or 4th best combo?

PB needs to know what he's getting, but maybe is JS being employed as crossfit trainer ;)

* re your new standard^ : let us know when you have recanted all the abuse you've piled on Dean and Grant

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Me, doing PR for anyone? Damn you’re conspiratorial.

Just like last time there will be interesting facets of all teams in the very high-level competition that the AC always is, most of those facets highly admirable.

JS has by most reasonable measures already staked a solid claim of success in modern AC History and guess what? He may not have peaked yet. Has Presti played a part in that success? Definitely.

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On 3/22/2018 at 8:04 AM, Stingray~ said:

Thanks. 

More from this effort: http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/2018/03/21/fondazione-adelasia-di-torres-incontra-il-fondazione-adelasia-di-torres-ha-incontrato-il-challenger-of-record/

La Fondazione Adelasia di Torres incontra il Challenger of Record

Interesting, translated  ......

"New steps towards the America's Cup for the Adelasia Torres Foundation that today met the Challenger of Record, which is the coordinating and support body of the challengers in the thirty-sixth Cup, which will take place in Auckland, to present missions and projects.

"At the center of the meeting, the America's Cup Challenge, to be launched by the Arzachena Sailing Club, supported by the Torres Adelasia Foundation, with the aim of telling the world about Sardinia, its culture, its wonderful landscape, its strong push towards innovation. The historical-cultural message inherent in Adelasia's participation in the international competition was lively with great interest.

"Renato Azara, president of the Foundation, has announced the will to design and build the America's Cup boat in Sardinia, drawing on the island resources and forging partnerships with the best international research centers and with the Tuscany Region's Nautical District.

"The meeting was also attended by the Director of the Salvo Manca Foundation, the Scientific Technical Director Valerio Lombardi and Judith Mayr, Organizational Manager; for the Challenger of Record, there were CEO Laurent Esquier, Director of Legal and Corporate Affairs Alessandra Pandarese and Communication Manager Jennifer Hall.

'Preliminary discussions were made on technical issues, pending the publication of the Measurement Rules and Technical Specifications of the new America's Cup boat, called AC 75. Also on the conformation of the crews, the race routes and the stages of approaching the Cup, we it is sent back to official publications.

It has been clarified that high visibility events will be organized all over the world, particularly in conjunction with each regatta session, which will be disputed from the start with the AC 75 and not with replacement boats. Of particular interest is the fact that at least one regatta stage could be in the Mediterranean."

Must confess I haven't been following affairs in Italy.  Xlot, is this a separate emerging challenger, or a support group, please?
Interesting too to see old hands CEO Laurent Esquier, Director of Legal and Corporate Affairs Alessandra Pandarese and Communication Manager Jennifer Hall on board with the Challenger of Record.

 

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3 hours ago, nav said:

They combined for a stunning result last time - worth every Lira

^^ Already attacking P$B, your allied a few weeks ago, I forecast good times soon. :rolleyes:

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11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Me, doing PR for anyone? Damn you’re conspiratorial.

Just like last time there will be interesting facets of all teams in the very high-level competition that the AC always is, most of those facets highly admirable.

JS has by most reasonable measures already staked a solid claim of success in modern AC History and guess what? He may not have peaked yet. Has Presti played a part in that success? Definitely.

on the other hand, his camo wheel may have been the last one he hangs onto.

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Just now, barfy said:

on the other hand, his camo wheel may have been the last one he hangs onto.

 

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i bet that luna rossa will be pretty pleased with sponsoring ETNZ last cup looking at the outcome of the bases

one would almost think that they're a defender as well!

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On 3/24/2018 at 2:07 PM, Stingray~ said:

From that one, it appears this group was or is in Milan, meeting with LR... Which is where GD is meeting Challs. Could they really be one of the 6?

Dalton is in Milan providing the prospective challenging fleet with details over the class rule for the new 75-foot foiling monohulls. http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2018/03/26/base-plan-agreed-36th-americas-cup/

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58 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

From that one, it appears this group was or is in Milan, meeting with LR... Which is where GD is meeting Challs. Could they really be one of the 6?

Sorry SR, I'm NOT going to comment any further on the Nth Italian wannabe challenger. OTOH, thanks for bringing up Alessandra Pandarese - last seen as Onorato's legal advisor, wearing an OR windbreaker in that infamous picture

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1 minute ago, Xlot said:

Sorry SR, I'm NOT going to comment any further on the Nth Italian wannabe challenger. OTOH, thanks for bringing up Alessandra Pandarese - last seen as Onorato's legal advisor, wearing an OR windbreaker in that infamous picture

Ha, just what I expected as a response :) But since we’re in the silly season, and given this motley crew has been meeting with the COR again, this time ‘in Milan’ which coincides with GD’s visit now, and given they are (hope to exist..) like LR in Sardinia, and given the ~possibility~ there’s some kind of deal being done in cahoots with P$B, well.. Who knows?

Yes, cool on Alessandra.

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  ^ He's talking sponsorship - more likely of the event, since he's saying it's some years in the future

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53 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ He's talking sponsorship - more likely of the event, since he's saying it's some years in the future

Thanks.

They hooked with ETNZ late in AC35.

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Garmin / LR

http://www.italiavela.it/articolo.asp?idarticolo=garmin-official-supplier-del-team-luna-rossa-challenge_30414

from a gtran, 

Both TP52s will be equipped with latest generation Garmin instruments: the 7 "GNX 120 maxi displays, the solid state 9-axis compass, the 10 Hz 19x GPS antenna and the GST43 pass-through transducer for the detection of speed and water temperature. The team will also be provided with the innovative quatix 5, the next-generation smartwatch with integrated GPS and numerous functions dedicated to sailing, including the ability to display on your wrist the information needed for each crew member during the races. The new quatix 5 also features multi-sport features that have always distinguished Garmin products, making it essential for the athletic preparation of the team. Garmin will also support the media and analysis part of the workouts, providing the VIRB 360 action cameras, the first 360-degree camera in 4K with integrated GPS, and VIRB Ultra 30, for Ultra HD shooting, image stabilizer 3 axes and G-MetrixTM data. The team's official chase-boat will also be fully equipped with Garmin instruments: combined GPSMAP 922xs chartplotter and gWind wind transducer for total control of the weather, the sea floor and currents on the race course. All the experience and innovative solutions developed together with Luna Rossa will then be brought on board the revolutionary AC 75, the class of modern high performance "flying" monohulls with which the 36th America's Cup regattas will be held. it will be an extremely performing and demanding boat that will require sailors and equipment of the highest level. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

These guys again

4 months ago, audio, Italian

 

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11 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Nothing new.

 

Sardinia to America's cup 2021 of sailing with one of his boats: the project has already sailed with the "Adelasia di Torres" Foundation. And now from the presidency of the Regional Council come blessings and suggestions for the development of the initiative. "It is a very well articulated and strongly identifying project - declared the number one of the maximum Sardinian assembly Gianfranco Ganau during a meeting with the representatives of the Foundation, the president Renato Azara and the director Salvo Manca - who marries very well with the 'need to enhance our island from all points of view: not only sea, landscape and natural beauty, but also technological innovation, applied to one of our great vocations, boating, and useful interventions to increase tourism in the arc of all the

A company that can be supported by the institutions. "We are facing a great opportunity - confirmed Ganau - that Sardinia must grasp to the end, that's why I think it can be useful to set up a regional interassexesory table that from here and until 2021 can support the initiative, following all the steps ". Foundation increasingly convinced. "Ours is a well-structured project that starts from the construction in Sardinia of the boat that will participate in the oldest trophy in the world - stressed the representatives of the Foundation - for which we want to involve all the Sardinians, a unique opportunity to showcase the our island that would have a huge image return.We are working on structured interventions aimed at enhancing Sardinia from an economic point of view,

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In the meantime checco bruni is second at the moth worlds.

Fight for the ac75 helm has begun :D

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1 hour ago, 17mika said:

Fight for the ac75 helm has begun :D

Yay!! Go Checco!

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from http://www.giornaledellavela.com/news/2018/04/03/bentornato-fenomeno-pietro-sibello-mette-piede-sul-49er-5-anni-assenza-vince-subito/


Nel 2010, premiammo come Velista dell’Anno Pietro Sibello. Il fortissimo e sfortunatissimo Pietro Sibello. Nato ad Albenga (Savona) nel 1979, con il fratello Gianfranco è stato il più bravo interprete della classe 49er in Italia. nel 2004 le prime Olimpiadi ad Atene, poi nel 2008 si è visto “strappare” dal collo il bronzo olimpico per una vera e propria scorrettezza perpetrata da un equipaggio avversario e non sanzionata dai giudici di regata, nel 2012, anno nel quale avrebbe dovuto prendersi la rivincita a Londra, un angioma gli ha impedito di partecipare alle Olimpiadi. Ma si tratta di un campione indomito, che ha sempre saputo rialzarsi e superare le difficoltà. Fino ad arrivare su Luna Rossa (sarà a bordo nella prossima Coppa: in più è tra i protagonisti del programma Next Generation di Luna Rossa, ovvero la campagna di selezione di giovani talenti in vista dell’America’s Cup del 2021)

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7 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

http://farevela.net/cms/2018/04/11/luna-rossa-ecco-primi-giovani-ingaggiati-matteo-celon-enrico-voltolini-e-andrea-tesei/

First three graduates from the New Generation initiative: mid-level Laser, Finn and 49er sailors. LR's PR department does its customary lousy job of bowdlerized statements, F1 drivers are entertaining by comparison

Dunno what what the Italian version imparted but I, at least, was pathetically grateful for receiving a press release in Italian AND English. Agreed not much passion, poetry or drama.  Jest the facts, Ma'am!  This not just a Luna Rossa failing. Absence of attractive, informative  writing appears largely endemic to AC communication.  Anyway, here's what i received:

Cagliari, 11th of April 2018 - Luna Rossa has completed the first sessions dedicated to the selection and training of young talents from the world of Italian sailing and is pleased to announce the names of the first three sailors who will be part of the team and race in the upcoming regattas.

Matteo Celon, age 22, is a Laser-class sailor from Lake Garda who has also competed in the Extreme40, M32 and Melges circuits. “These sessions have given us a unique opportunity to sail closely with top sailors and to gain experience that we could not have achieved on our own. I believe that this project truly reflects the start of a new generation in Italian sailing.”

Enrico Voltolini, age 31, is a naval engineer. His sailing career starts in the Star class with a European and two Italian championship titles. From 2013 to 2016 he raced with excellent results in the Finn circuit representing the Fiamme Gialle military team.  “The New Generation project has allowed us to approach a world that is apparently distant from the Olympic classes but that actually shares several aspects. It is an exceptional opportunity for us to learn and grow.” 

Andrea Tesei, age 26 from Trieste, has sailed in the Olympic 49er class for the past five years, placing top10 in the world ranking and runner-up for the world title in 2015. He won a bronze medal in the 2017 European championships and obtained several titles and medals in national championships. Andrea has also raced in the main professional circuits such as in the Extreme Sailing Series, World Match Racing Tour and Melges World League. “These weeks of training have given us a real feel of what it means to work in an America’s Cup team. It has been an incredible learning experience also thanks to the humility, enthusiasm and will to share of the sailors working with us.  It’s hard to describe how I feel at being be part of team Luna Rossa. I can’t wait to go out there and prove my gratitude by giving my absolute best to the team!”

The New Generation project has proved to be an excellent instrument to select a pool of young quality athletes and will continue throughout 2018.

 

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  ^ OK, but that's beside the point. What really matters is who is LR"s Design Coordinator - I can only agree with A Class Sailor that it cannot be Martin Fischer

 

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Fischer is being given that title in several recent articles and including at ~:35 secs into this. But it does not necessarily explain his exact role(s).

 

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On 4/18/2018 at 10:46 AM, Xlot said:

^ OK, but that's beside the point. What really matters is who is LR"s Design Coordinator - I can only agree with A Class Sailor that it cannot be Martin Fischer

Was a real pleasure seeing you in Roma, Xlot! You are a real charmer on a big variety of subjects and the ladies who were at the table are looking forward to our next trip, and to the next Roman lunch invitation. So am I.

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The pleasure was reciprocal, SR. But next time I do have to share with you the result of my lifelong quest, the place where they make the perfect carbonara!

 

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https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/Economia/luna-rossa-torna-made-in-bergamola-persico-firma-due-imbarcazioni_1276791_11/

Luna Rossa torna made in Bergamo
La Persico firma due imbarcazioni

La Persico di Nembro torna a lavorare per il team di Luna Rossa.La società fornirà due imbarcazioni al team di Bertelli per l’America’s Cup del 2021.

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^

Not really clear whether this is TP52 or AC75 or both.

 

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On 3/15/2018 at 4:32 PM, Stingray~ said:

...they could conceivably force AC36 to be a Match between just the two of them - through mutually agreed rules changes as things progress during this cycle....

The Challenger Selection Series has no place in the Deed.  It is a separate regatta, organized by the CoR.  The prospective challengers agree among themselves that if the CoR is not the winner of the CSS, the CoR will withdraw its challenge, thus satisfying the Deed requirement, "when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."  The winner of the CSS that goes forward to meet the Defender is actually the next challenger for the AC.  If the CoR wins the CSS then it's as if the CSS never occurred, as far as the Deed is concerned.  

No mutual consent is required to freeze out the other challenging clubs - they were never in the AC to begin with.  It's only through the mutual consent of the Defender that the regatta organized by the CoR uses the same venue and management structure as the AC regatta so as to give the appearance that the two are parts of one event.

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Cagliari, 3rd of May 2018 - While the team prepares for the launch of the new TP52 on May 13th, Jacopo Plazzi, Umberto Molineris and Nicolas Brezzi have officially become part of Luna Rossa as a result of the training sessions dedicated to promising young sailing talents. To date, in less than four months, 80 youth sailors have been invited to take part in these sessions.

Jacopo Plazzi, age 27 and born in Ravenna, holds a European bronze title and several top ten results in world-class competitions in the 49er class. Jacopo is highly passionate about all high-performance sailing classes and has also competed in the M32 and GC32 circuits. "I started sailing in year 2000; I remember that winter period when I would get up during the night to watch Luna Rossa sailing live from Auckland. My passion was born thanks to this team and I am overjoyed to be part of it. The chance to contribute towards winning the Cup is my motivation to give my very best. We have been given an incredible opportunity and my goal is to learn as much as possible to return the team’s trust.”
 
Umberto Molineris, age 28 is from Ravenna. He achieves several top-ten results in world-class 49er competitions in partnership with Jacopo Plazzi. With the closing of the Olympic activities in 2016 he moves on to regattas in professional circuits such as RC44, Melges 32, M32. "My entry in this team is a source of incredible pride; for sailors of my generation it represents a unique opportunity for growth. I used to observe and study Spithill when he sailed in Ravenna in the trofeo Trombini, and now I am part of an America’s Cup team with him… A dream come true!” 
 
Nicholas Brezzi Villi, is 25 and from Trieste. He started sailing at a very young age but began competing as an athlete rower.  He first represented Italy 2010 and won the European Championship.  He participated with the Italian National team in seven World Championships earning a gold, a silver and two bronze medals.  He has also won the Italian Champion 12 times. In 2016 he returned to sailing and won an Italian ORC championship and, for two years in a row, the Barcolana regatta. “The opportunity to be part of a team of talented professionals, ready to work with us and accept athletes from different disciplines is an incredible feeling, a dream come true. I am enthusiastic and can’t wait to be involved in this unique learning experience.”
 

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16 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Cagliari, 3rd of May 2018 - (...)

Care to provide the source, link?

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Whiff of nepotism ...

 

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On 5/4/2018 at 9:59 AM, Rennmaus said:

Thanks! :wub:

Welcome

18 hours ago, Xlot said:

Whiff of nepotism ...

 

Like kissing cousins:wub:

 

At http://www.triesteprima.it/cronaca/barcolana-l-tp52-luna-rossa-arrivato-oggi-a-porto-san-rocco.html

Barcolana: l Tp52 Luna Rossa arrivato oggi a Porto San Rocco

 

È arrivata oggi a Porto San Rocco, dopo due giorni di viaggio su trasporto eccezionale dal cantiere Persico, il nuovo Tp52 Luna Rossa con cui il team parteciperà alla 52 Super Series in preparazione agli impegni di Coppa America. Il team, che fa base a Muggia a Porto San Rocco in questa fase di allestimento e test, è già arrivato e da domani lavorerà sull’imbarcazione per prepararla alla prima tappa della 52 Super Series, prevista a fine maggio a Sibenik, in Croazia.

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They'd be better off getting a couple of Superfoilers. They are the nearest sailing craft covering some of the sailing issues on the new AC's, (rig/sail design crapout, foil control problems and general all-round problem child). Glen Ashby's thoughts anyway - and it's always worth keeping an eye on him.

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at http://segelreporter.com/regatta/martin-fischer-deutscher-luna-rosa-design-chef-entscheidet-katamaran-rechtsstreit-fuer-sich/

Vor Gericht

07.05.2018 von Carsten Kemmling

Martin Fischer gilt als einer der hellsten Köpfe in der Yacht-Szene. Und seit der Fokus des America’s Cups auf dem Foiling liegt, ist sein Marktwert enorm gestiegen.

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Where's the G-tran button?

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19 hours ago, Xlot said:

Where's the G-tran button?

I tried but it was pretty garbled. Not much to it anyway.

This is a better piece http://www.fujitsu.com/fts/about/resources/news/press-releases/2018/fujitsu-to-help-america-s-cup-challenger-luna-rossa-to.html

Fujitsu to Help America’s Cup Challenger Luna Rossa to Design and Build Cutting Edge Yacht

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Gtran ^

There is great excitement at the Ichnusa pier: dozens of workers are at work at the cruise terminal because they have to build the Luna Rossa headquarters by June. The times are now very tight: next Sunday the boat that will participate in the America's Cup 2021 will be launched in Trieste. Then, after some regattas in Croatia and Portugal, he will move, with all his crew, to Cagliari to prepare the challenge in New Zealand. For three years, a hundred staff members will be in town to prepare for the event. And there is great haste: despite the concession of public spaces is not yet official ("But now it's a matter of a few days", reassures the president of the Port Authority Massimo Deiana), the yard is fully operational: outside the workers are preparing the bases of the two marquees that will act as hangars for the two boats (the regatta and the training boats) and the jetty where they will be moored. In one part of the cruise terminal, however, offices, canteen and gym are being set up. The goal is, in fact, to win the "Cup of one hundred guineas" (this is one of the nicknames of the trophy) in three years. Italian sailing will cheer for Luna Rossa. And, in the first row, there will be Cagliari. Because if the boat really wins, it is very likely (as some rumors suggest) that the America's Cup 2025 will be hosted in the waters of the Gulf of Angels.

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I'm impressed: the Cruise Terminal looks to be Cagliari's equivalent of AKL's Events Centre - but boats will be stored in tents. And "official authorizations, LR don't need no steenking authorizations" from Italy's paperwork-obsessed bureaucrats is quite refreshing

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Because if the boat really wins, it is very likely (as some rumors suggest) that the America's Cup 2025 will be hosted in the waters of the Gulf of Angels.

^ Right, almost sounds like this is part of the handshake. Paperwork be damned :) Yes, nice facility - and good water.

Is Cagliari a quick/cheap/simple day or overnight trip from Rome? Will be there in April again.

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18 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Is Cagliari a quick/cheap/simple day or overnight trip from Rome? Will be there in April again.

Quick but not cheap (if you're not a resident in Sardinia): plane from Fiumicino

Cheap: ferry from Civitavecchia or maybe high speed ferry to Olbia and rent a car

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You can get around in C with buses pretty well. Well 10 years ago anyway.

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Great looking boat.  Wish the AC36 boats were a version of this.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

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Is that the Max it can be without being  a problem about 7 metres?

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https://www.pressmare.it/it/team/luna-rossa/2018-05-13/xxxvi-america-s-cup-software-trieste-tp52-ac75-14032

XXXVI America's Cup: software “Made in Trieste” per il monoscafo high-tech di Luna Rossa

Trieste, 10 maggio 2018 - La tecnologia ESTECO torna a supportare Luna Rossa: fornirà ai progettisti il proprio software per l'ottimizzazione numerica, in vista della realizzazione del monoscafo AC75, che partecipera' alla prossima America's cup.

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Max at today's splashing of their TP52, talking about the AC75:

"... it will be very advanced, fun, high performance, as fast as catamarans, and potentially it won't foil all the time"

Reality setting in ...

 

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Max "....... and potentially it won't foil all the time" Thanks Xlot

Now there is the point we all should be discussing.  The point where one boat foils and the other does not.

Is this the big winning/loosing point?

In AC34 the boats were not designed to foil.  Did OR have foiling up their sleeve to produce at the point where needed? Or did ETNZ surprise everyone foiling on launch day?

Will some team in AC36 have foiling ability to reveal slowly as they need it?

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7 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

Max "....... and potentially it won't foil all the time" Thanks Xlot

Now there is the point we all should be discussing.  The point where one boat foils and the other does not.

Is this the big winning/loosing point?

In AC34 the boats were not designed to foil.  Did OR have foiling up their sleeve to produce at the point where needed? Or did ETNZ surprise everyone foiling on launch day?

Will some team in AC36 have foiling ability to reveal slowly as they need it?

In marginal (lighter) conditions, early take off by one of the boats could well be the deciding factor.

In AC34, for sure ETNZ was the first to go for 100% foiling in their program - don’t forget that OR’s first boat still had the flexing platform, so the decision to foil 100% (as opposed to 70% or 80%) must’ve come well into the design/build process, whereas the ETNZ platform  was built as rigidly as possible, and also somewhat conservatively designed with around 30% more reserve buoyancy.

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10 hours ago, surfsailor said:

In marginal (lighter) conditions, early take off by one of the boats could well be the deciding factor.

In AC34, for sure ETNZ was the first to go for 100% foiling in their program - don’t forget that OR’s first boat still had the flexing platform, so the decision to foil 100% (as opposed to 70% or 80%) must’ve come well into the design/build process, whereas the ETNZ platform  was built as rigidly as possible, and also somewhat conservatively designed with around 30% more reserve buoyancy.

well, as homer says...duh. 

early take off may win a race.

and wtf did the flexy b1 have to do with foiling. it was totally unproductive to stable flying. until .....

ETNZ's platform had more buoyancy and strength because it was built to the original wind limits FFS. That's why everyone called it a tractor.

Full retard. again.

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Hmmm ... in my reading, Max's comment is not so much about comparative (early foiling) advantage, but rather the acknowledgement that below a not-unusual TWS threshold (about 13 kts being the current estimate) there won't be any foiling at all - and that could mean several entire races

 

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

well, as homer says...duh. 

early take off may win a race.

and wtf did the flexy b1 have to do with foiling. it was totally unproductive to stable flying. until .....

ETNZ's platform had more buoyancy and strength because it was built to the original wind limits FFS. That's why everyone called it a tractor.

Full retard. again.

Too bad ETNZs boat was slower in high wind, then. You apparently missed the beginning of the regatta, when OR won a couple high wind races while they were still learning how to jibe. 

And too bad you can’t read - I specifically pointed out the flexi platform on OR’s first AC72 as evidence that it was not originally intended to 100% foil, as opposed to ETNZ’s first boat that was.

But hey, keep up the stalking!

 

 

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12 hours ago, Kiwing said:

@surfsailor So do I hear you saying that most competitors will foil most of the time?

What I was refering to in my post  was what percentage of the boats weight was being supported by the foils - so 0% would be classic archimedean mode, and 100% would mean the hull is completely clear of the water. Only ETNZ's AC72 was designed to foil 100% from the get go, AFAIK.

For the new AC75's, how much they foil as a percentage of sailing time on the race course really depends on the lower wind limit and how they are managing take off. For example, I can imagine a fast, light wind non-foiling mode that utilises both the windward and leeward foils for righting moment (downforce on the former, upforce on the latter) - but at some crossover point, foiling will be faster, and they will need to switch modes. That could be very interesting on the fly - all of this will be simulated and optimised in the computer long before they get anywhere near the water, but I would expect to see windward heel increased as they approach the crossover point (to utilise the lift from the rig to mitigate the down force from the windward foil) and then as the boat begins to lift in earnest the windward foil is gradually made neutral (via the flap) and then lifted out of the water to reduce drag. So lots of complex operations, with huge numbers of scenarios to explore to find the best ones.

One interesting facet is that in most (if not all) sailing modes the rigs will be vertical or heeled to windward - leeward heel functionally adds displacement, which is the enemy of foiling unless you're concerned the whole boat is going to fly out of the water like a giant bunny rabbit!

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from http://www.lunarossachallenge.com/en/news/247_THE-NEW-LUNA-ROSSA-TP52-IS-LAUNCHED-IN-TRIESTE.html

Together with Max Sirena, Gilberto Nobili, Vasco Vascotto and Francesco Bruni the sailing team is completed by Pietro Sibello, Francesco Mongelli, Shannon Falcone, Pietro Mantovani, Pierluigi De Felice, Giuseppe Acquafredda, James Spithill, Michele Cannoni, Jacopo Plazzi, Matteo Celon, Andrea Tesei, Enrico Voltolini, Umberto Molineris and Nicholas Brezzi.

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On 5/14/2018 at 9:45 PM, surfsailor said:

Too bad ETNZs boat was slower in high wind, then. You apparently missed the beginning of the regatta, when OR won a couple high wind races while they were still learning how to jibe. 

And too bad you can’t read - I specifically pointed out the flexi platform on OR’s first AC72 as evidence that it was not originally intended to 100% foil, as opposed to ETNZ’s first boat that was.

But hey, keep up the stalking!

 

 

ya.

you keep up the talking...you'll catch up with SR post master soon.

what does your imagining of high wind races have to do with your post about marginal conditions? ? and that foiling early may win a race?

and the reserve buoyancy and stable platform were as much of a design choice to enable them to sail in the conditions that were originally posited as to contribute to stable foiling. maybe. i don't know and sure as F*** you don't . And not get swept out under the golden gate in bits.

 

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5 hours ago, barfy said:

ya.

you keep up the talking...you'll catch up with SR post master soon.

what does your imagining of high wind races have to do with your post about marginal conditions? ? and that foiling early may win a race?

and the reserve buoyancy and stable platform were as much of a design choice to enable them to sail in the conditions that were originally posited as to contribute to stable foiling. maybe. i don't know and sure as F*** you don't . And not get swept out under the golden gate in bits.

 

Go argue AC34 in the OR thread. Maybe re-watch the races first. Just for the record, reserve bouyancy does NOT automatically = safety (although it certainly is a factor), and as we saw in AC34, flying all that extra volume around adds to the platform drag. That's why in AC35 the hulls were one design - to avoid the temptation to push past a reasonable safety limit.

My other post was about the AC75s - that's what (most) people are discussing at this point. Because it was general - not specific to LR - we continued the discussion elsewhere. But yes - early foiling could well be a deciding factor in AC36 races.

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But yes - early foiling could well be a deciding factor in AC36 races. 

 

And so might faster top end foiling, smooth turns, not crashing off the foils every 2 minutes, having a fast main that doesn't break and can do tricks, not getting lost, smart starting tactics, not capsizing while at sub-foiling speeds, not sinking at the dock, keeping your wing flaps attached, getting the most from your heads'ls, not running out of electrical juice before crossing the finish line, not being on the course when Beneos has another Ben Hur moment, etc, etc, etc.....

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1 hour ago, nav said:

But yes - early foiling could well be a deciding factor in AC36 races. 

 

And so might faster top end foiling, smooth turns, not crashing off the foils every 2 minutes, having a fast main that doesn't break and can do tricks, not getting lost, smart starting tactics, not capsizing while at sub-foiling speeds, not sinking at the dock, keeping your wing flaps attached, getting the most from your heads'ls, not running out of electrical juice before crossing the finish line, not being on the course when Beneos has another Ben Hur moment, etc, etc, etc.....

Beneos going Ben Hur in these beasts would be something to see!

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On 5/14/2018 at 9:08 AM, surfsailor said:

In marginal (lighter) conditions, early take off by one of the boats could well be the deciding factor.

 

you are truly an idiot...

when i call you on this statement of the duh obvious for foiling boats as a waste of space:

you go off on tangents like,

-ETNZ's foiler was designed to foil as much as possible (it was the first boat designed to only foil, you would expect as much as possible),

-ETNZ was slower in high wind (so???)

-I am stalking you.

you are truly full retard, stay off the Maui bud bud, it's corroding your brain. and stop wasting space.

12 hours ago, surfsailor said:

reserve bouyancy does NOT automatically = safety (although it certainly is a factor),

oh and this gem of ambiguity .... of course ETNZ didn't know the limits of of what would happen to these boats so they designed in as much safety factor as possible.

12 hours ago, surfsailor said:

That's why in AC35 the hulls were one design - to avoid the temptation to push past a reasonable safety limit.

and you certainly made this one up. The spin was to reduce costs, the truth may have to limit surprises...but safety came from the dark corners of your humid brain.

but when someone else calls you on your languid shit you like ben hur. FFS

iggy for you

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42 minutes ago, barfy said:

< protracted whingeing and vomiting >

iggy for you

Thank you!

:)

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  ^ Interesting stuff (other than considerations on islanders' endogamy negatively affecting newscasters' height):

- LR's first AC75 will only be splashed in May/June next year, but a "prototype" boat (??) will be sailed in the near future

- full team complement of 200 people

- confirmed they'll move to AKL only from mid-2020

- they'll organize again Open Days, but for a limited number of visitors each time (SR, don't hold your breath)

- of course, should they win, Cagliari yadda yadda yadda ...

 

 

 

 

 

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