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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
OC Racer

RIP Doug Peterson

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21 hours ago, P_Wop said:

One of my favorites.  Pat Molloy's Intuition.  Many happy (and hazy) days in Genoa with The Whale (RIP) prepping her for return shipping to the US after the 2-Ton Cup in Sardinia in 1981.

Intuition_10.jpg

 

Wop,

     You have to refer to 'Whale' who used to live right down the street from the 17th St Raw Bar, right? He was an institution in Ft Lauderdale and I'm sad to hear of his passing. I left a big motorsailor on his dock after a delivery and managed to live aboard it for a while despite that being a big NO-NO in that neighborhood. We really should start a thread on the 'Whale' her as he had more sea stories that anyone I ever met! 

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

Thanks Woody!

    You really earned your keep with those photos.

 

Those were on display at the Celibation , It was EPIC The Who's Who stepped up and spoke of the MASTER who was part Hippy 100% Analog and a World above and beyond the known world of Yacht Design he Kicked Ass in !!!!

Doug was to us Local another Ass in a seat at Fiddler's ...

Not to say we didn't realize or appreciate his accomplishments

But he came in and sat at the bar as just another regular

To understand you would need to realize who the Regulars were

An America's Cup Hall of Fame on any Givin evening !!

Fiddlers was mentioned hundreds of times by all speakers

It was Doug's Employees Bennifits :-)

Too much to even touch lightly on

Sorry for any who could not attend :-(

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11 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I wish I had been there, RIP Doug P.

    BTW Woody, did the CHS reunion chairperson get ahold of you?

No interest, I still live 300' from where I lived before kindergarten

and still know those I want to know from Skool

Reunions are like PA, no place to go if you are Happy

And who wants to be around a bunch of geriatrics who

don't ride or fly or have a boat

I'm Not one of them !!

Nor have anything in common 

How/where did you come up with that question ?

 

 

 

Back to Dougie !!!!!

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Owned a Peterson 41 for 20 years.  Thanks for designing my and many others memories. 

RIP Doug

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17 hours ago, DA-WOODY said:

 

 

 

 

      

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Image may contain: 1 person, beard and eyeglasses

Image may contain: 3 people, indoor

Image may contain: ocean, sky, outdoor and water

Image may contain: one or more people

Image may contain: ocean, sky, outdoor and water

 

 

 

Thanks for posting these Dennis.  I was not able to make to SDYC yesterday afternoon.

Sail on Doug.

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From Today after the Ash scattering as the SV America returns into DAGO Bay

1 of 100 + photos (before I went to shoot OTL)

2017DP183.JPG

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few more

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2017DP190.JPG

2017DP256.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, carcrash said:

Wings would roll Ganbare to windward in light air -- higher and faster. So no, Ganbare did not beat Wings. Ever. I do love Peterson designs, but just gotta keep it real.

Real would be acknowledging that Ganbare won the Regatta.  I have no idea what you are talking about.  

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Got it, from the timing of the comments, I assumed that Wings was part of the regatta.  Why not?  Given you mentioned sailing against Ganbare later, I assume you were SD or LA-based.  

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1 hour ago, carcrash said:

We did not race that one regatta. Wings beat Ganbare in every race and regatta we raced against them, including Whitney and PORC. They did beat us to marks from time to time, but never to the finish line. Just keeping it factual.

But clearly, history has proven without a doubt that Doug had a better solution to the IOR than Gary Mull. Doug's first was just about as good as Gary's nth design. Doug kept improving! Sailed many a mile on Doug's designs after that, and not winning was unusual. Doug was a brilliant designer and a man to emulate.

Interesting history.  Strange in that Ganbare was only finished in the days before the North Americans regatta in the last week of May.  Whitney Series ended in April.  PORC was May/early June.  Ganbare obviously did not do the May races.  Early June Ganbare was back in the shed getting the bottom rebuilt before shipping to Europe.  She was sold in Europe, never to return to the USA.

Makes us wonder when all these regattas where the Mull beat her happened?

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5 hours ago, AlR said:

Interesting history.  Strange in that Ganbare was only finished in the days before the North Americans regatta in the last week of May.  Whitney Series ended in April.  PORC was May/early June.  Ganbare obviously did not do the May races.  Early June Ganbare was back in the shed getting the bottom rebuilt before shipping to Europe.  She was sold in Europe, never to return to the USA.

Makes us wonder when all these regattas where the Mull beat her happened?

I'm talking Rick Taylor's Ranger 37 "Wings" in the One Tons in San Diego. Are you talking about another Wings? And as the One Tons are boat for boat, and Ganbare won, I state firmly that Ganbare did in fact beat Wings!

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6 hours ago, carcrash said:

We did not race that one regatta. Wings beat Ganbare in every race and regatta we raced against them, including Whitney and PORC. They did beat us to marks from time to time, but never to the finish line. Just keeping it factual.

But clearly, history has proven without a doubt that Doug had a better solution to the IOR than Gary Mull. Doug's first was just about as good as Gary's nth design. Doug kept improving! Sailed many a mile on Doug's designs after that, and not winning was unusual. Doug was a brilliant designer and a man to emulate.

Carcrash, did you sail with Rick Taylor? Are you Rick Taylor?  That is the Wings (Ranger 37) that sailed the One Tons when Ganbare was built.

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On 7/6/2017 at 10:55 AM, House Salad said:

From the Right Coast, Not By Bread Alone (commonly referred to as just "Bread") was one of the most successful IOR boats of her time. There is a Ganbare 35 sitting in a slip in Stamford Landing Marina, Stamford, CT right now. She is light grey with a green sail cover. I can't remember her name right now, I'll come up with it. She could easily be the old Bread, repainted in grey. A shot of Bread back in the day (1979). Thank you Paul Mello for the photo.1979OneTonNAsNewport6.thumb.jpg.e5f36a070eed8e597ade91125f22b253.jpg

The light grey Ganbare 35 in Stamford, CT is called Sleeper. I'll try to snap a pic.

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On 7/7/2017 at 10:01 AM, Rasputin22 said:
15 hours ago, sailronin said:

I'm talking Rick Taylor's Ranger 37 "Wings" in the One Tons in San Diego. Are you talking about another Wings? And as the One Tons are boat for boat, and Ganbare won, I state firmly that Ganbare did in fact beat Wings!

One of my neighbors, Trevor Lewis, crewed that regatta on the Ranger 37 Wings. He told me he never saw a boat make less wake than Ganbare and Ganbare spanked them. I wasn't there but why would he say that if it weren't true. 

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Just look up the PHRF for them now - the Peterson owes the Ranger 10 seconds or more. That's a lot considering they raced boat for boat as Tonners.

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Those East Coast boats pictured are all the early Cooper built version before his foreman Martin went on his own to build them.

I remember being in Mosquito Creek one day when they were brand new and there were 1/2 dozen of them in a row. They had been pulled because the keels were wiggling. Apparently because that flat bottom design was so new they didn't know that floors were needed and just bolted the keels to the hull bottom. They all needed subsequent reinforcing.

After that fiasco Cooper was probably glad to see the back of them when Martin took over the building of them.

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50 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Those East Coast boats pictured are all the early Cooper built version before his foreman Martin went on his own to build them.

I remember being in Mosquito Creek one day when they were brand new and there were 1/2 dozen of them in a row. They had been pulled because the keels were wiggling. Apparently because that flat bottom design was so new they didn't know that floors were needed and just bolted the keels to the hull bottom. They all needed subsequent reinforcing.

After that fiasco Cooper was probably glad to see the back of them when Martin took over the building of them.

And when you compare Bread and Sleeper, they are almost assuredly two different boats. Bread had an early version of rope clutches in 1979 and Sleeper is still a winch farm today. I wonder how many of these are sitting in the back of old yards, rotting.

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Those East Coast boats pictured are all the early Cooper built version before his foreman Martin went on his own to build them.

I remember being in Mosquito Creek one day when they were brand new and there were 1/2 dozen of them in a row. They had been pulled because the keels were wiggling. Apparently because that flat bottom design was so new they didn't know that floors were needed and just bolted the keels to the hull bottom. They all needed subsequent reinforcing.

After that fiasco Cooper was probably glad to see the back of them when Martin took over the building of them.

When you say "they didn't know" would that be Cooper or Peterson?

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2 hours ago, House Salad said:

And when you compare Bread and Sleeper, they are almost assuredly two different boats. Bread had an early version of rope clutches in 1979 and Sleeper is still a winch farm today. I wonder how many of these are sitting in the back of old yards, rotting.

Maybe some Mk II versions are sitting in back yards, but most of the original Cooper Ganbares are accounted for I think - which included some East Coast ones I wasn't aware of like Sleeper and the white one with red cove stripe listed for sale.

Pearce Arrow was heavily damaged years ago from striking a rock IIRC - not sure if she ever went back into service or not.

I think the one below will end up in a junk yard rather than a back yard.  Not sure which one this one was originally.  One of 9 vessels to break their anchor line and up wrecked on either Kits Beach or Sunset Beach during a recent English Bay wind storm.  She's done.  Although it looks like her keel may still be intact.  Obviously the Cooper fix worked ^_^

DSCN9999.jpg

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2 hours ago, House Salad said:

And when you compare Bread and Sleeper, they are almost assuredly two different boats. Bread had an early version of rope clutches in 1979 and Sleeper is still a winch farm today. I wonder how many of these are sitting in the back of old yards, rotting.

I found Bread. She was donated to the Sea Scouts in Bridgeport, CT. 

NotByBreadAlone.jpg

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

When you say "they didn't know" would that be Cooper or Peterson?

Dunno - Cooper for sure but I've heard that early Peterson plans were not really engineered - more lines & offsets than full plans.

Only gossip or rumour though.

I've seen other examples of that "unknown" engineering from back then though. My Quarter Pounder plans showed floors that were some layers of Lyasil (UDR) - no formers to create dimensional floors, just localized thickening "straps" of UDR. That was from a very well known designer a year or so after Ganbare.

I think they were feeling their way a lot back then - not unlike the current razor keel situation.

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3 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Pearce Arrow was heavily damaged years ago from striking a rock IIRC - not sure if she ever went back into service or not.

I think the one below will end up in a junk yard rather than a back yard.  Not sure which one this one was originally.  One of 9 vessels to break their anchor line and up wrecked on either Kits Beach or Sunset Beach during a recent English Bay wind storm.  She's done.  Although it looks like her keel may still be intact.  Obviously the Cooper fix worked ^_^

DSCN9999.jpg

Pearce Arrow went up on Worlcombe in a race. IIRC she was repaired.

I think that grey one is or was called Granite Carver. Don't know which of the originals it was - could well have been P. Arrow in an earlier life.

When are these dummies going to learn about anchoring off Kits beach? They should get a class action going against those assholes on Vancouver City Council.

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6 hours ago, 12 metre said:

Maybe some Mk II versions are sitting in back yards, but most of the original Cooper Ganbares are accounted for I think - which included some East Coast ones I wasn't aware of like Sleeper and the white one with red cove stripe listed for sale.

Pearce Arrow was heavily damaged years ago from striking a rock IIRC - not sure if she ever went back into service or not.

I think the one below will end up in a junk yard rather than a back yard.  Not sure which one this one was originally.  One of 9 vessels to break their anchor line and up wrecked on either Kits Beach or Sunset Beach during a recent English Bay wind storm.  She's done.  Although it looks like her keel may still be intact.  Obviously the Cooper fix worked ^_^

DSCN9999.jpg

Dammit, that Peterson looks pretty, even stranded there on the rocks.

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On 7/6/2017 at 3:54 PM, P_Wop said:

One of my favorites.  Pat Molloy's Intuition.  Many happy (and hazy) days in Genoa with The Whale (RIP) prepping her for return shipping to the US after the 2-Ton Cup in Sardinia in 1981.

Intuition_10.jpg

Wasn't Intuition's hull built of bonded (vs welded) aluminum?  One of the first boats I remember seeing (in pics) with a headsail that was almost completely transparent.  The headsail leads are "interesting"... 

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I remember those barber hauler grid things.

A really short lived dumb idea - the tail end of the hardware wars.

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Any interest in an AUDIO copulation of all speakers @ Dougie's Celibation of Life.

I have video of all but somehow I don't feel it appropriate to share those

I will be asking permission from each speaker beforehand as I'm that kinda guy

 

??????

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3 hours ago, J28 said:

Wasn't Intuition's hull built of bonded (vs welded) aluminum?  One of the first boats I remember seeing (in pics) with a headsail that was almost completely transparent.  The headsail leads are "interesting"... 

Yes, you're right.  I think the engineering was done with the advice of Northrop Grumman.  The hull skin was unbelievably thin, a couple of millimeters in the topsides, probably no more.  Far too thin to weld.  The panels were glued and flush riveted to internal stringers, just like a military aircraft.  So there was a huge maze of closely-spaced lightweight frames and longitudinals to support it all.  

This was about the last experiment in lightweight aluminium construction before it became obvious that composites were the way to go.

And the deck grids were a complete pain too.  Robin Aisher had them too on the sistership Yeoman (XXIII, XXIV? can't remember) in the 81 Admirals Cup, racing against Intuition.  Just impossible to adjust quickly (or at all) from one track to the next, and sideways too.  So glad we ditched all that kit.

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8 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Yes, you're right.  I think the engineering was done with the advice of Northrop Grumman.  The hull skin was unbelievably thin, a couple of millimeters in the topsides, probably no more.  Far too thin to weld.  The panels were glued and flush riveted to internal stringers, just like a military aircraft.  So there was a huge maze of closely-spaced lightweight frames and longitudinals to support it all.  

This was about the last experiment in lightweight aluminium construction before it became obvious that composites were the way to go.

And the deck grids were a complete pain too.  Robin Aisher had them too on the sistership Yeoman (XXIII, XXIV? can't remember) in the 81 Admirals Cup, racing against Intuition.  Just impossible to adjust quickly (or at all) from one track to the next, and sideways too.  So glad we ditched all that kit.

Jer,

Heres the deck grid on XX, (KissKiss). WTF were they thinking?

Y20.thumb.jpg.fe4733e8d1c8fc138541b885b268206d.jpg

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Here's another of Doug's best, this one a half tonner put together in Melbourne by Terry Grundy and superbly sailed with his crew including legends Phil The Whale Miller and Fred Warner, both sadly RIP. My dad had a near sister Peterson 30 built in NZ whereas Casablanca was built in Western Australia. We learned a lot chasing Casablanca around for a couple of seasons, 77 & 78, and watching Freddy and The Whale work seamlessly and quietly together on that boat is something I will never forget. 5966d7423893c_Casablanca001.thumb.jpg.fb4c3b861882e99c5d85a5a6612346aa.jpg5966d7448e520_Casablanca002.jpg.bbde503b8fbeccc3e6609493fc5e1e2d.jpg5966d7469e467_Casablanca003.thumb.jpg.3dd5d454b3b3858699ed29c4ae10db04.jpg

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15 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Jer,

Heres the deck grid on XX, (KissKiss). WTF were they thinking?

Y20.thumb.jpg.fe4733e8d1c8fc138541b885b268206d.jpg

 

Oh, buggery, I tink dey am my legs.....

 

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6 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

 

Oh, buggery, I tink dey am my legs.....

 

Cut short in your prime? Sydney, pre Hobart at CYCA, can't remember the year, they've all blurred together.

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4 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Cut short in your prime? Sydney, pre Hobart at CYCA, can't remember the year, they've all blurred together.

83.  I was helping the boys out a little on that thing, but I was primarily managing the spearchuckers.  So I raced with Ray Roberts on Surefoot.  I had an odd job on that one - bow and nav, both.  So I did every sailchange, and tried to get us on the correct side of the 200m line, across the paddock, round the Iron Pot and the final infinity up that bloody Derwent.  Cascade throat afterwards was a definite.  Good days.

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7 hours ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Jer,

Heres the deck grid on XX, (KissKiss). WTF were they thinking?

Y20.thumb.jpg.fe4733e8d1c8fc138541b885b268206d.jpg

 

7 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Oh, buggery, I tink dey am my legs.....

HOW much does it weigh? 

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