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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Who's in AC36?

Rumors at this stage

Luna Rossa

Dennis Conner

Another USA team

Oracle

Alinghi

Australia

Artemis

Team Ben Anslie

Team France

Japan

Two New Zealand defenders RNZYS, Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club

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I hope the following don't come to fruition: Orifice, Alinghi and Port Nicholson Yacht Club.

Who on earth mentioned Dennis? He's too old for this game now surely?  Even just as a fundraiser. 

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I think it'd be great to see Alinghi back in the game. Yes, they did some really shitty things pre 2010, but since then they have maintained a great brand and team and have had much success in multihull competitions all over the world. They have had huge and consistent success in the ESS, The GC32 series and the Bol d' or Mirabaud. They have a lot of history in the AC, and they deserve to be back in the game. Luna Rossa, Alinghi, BAR, Artemis, an Australian team, a U.S team (maybe Oracle), Team France, I think we'll see a spanish team as well. 

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1 minute ago, sclarke said:

I think it'd be great to see Alinghi back in the game. Yes, they did some really shitty things pre 2010, but since then they have maintained a great brand and team and have had much success in multihull competitions all over the world. They have had huge and consistent success in the ESS, The GC32 series and the Bol d' or Mirabaud. They have a lot of history in the AC, and they deserve to be back in the game. Luna Rossa, Alinghi, BAR, Artemis, an Australian team, a U.S team (maybe Oracle), Team France, I think we'll see a spanish team as well. 

I am not sure that I would like to se them. I never trusted them and I still don't trust them. AC33 gaves deep scares.

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Just now, sclarke said:

I think it'd be great to see Alinghi back in the game. Yes, they did some really shitty things pre 2010, but since then they have maintained a great brand and team and have had much success in multihull competitions all over the world. They have had huge and consistent success in the ESS, The GC32 series and the Bol d' or Mirabaud. They have a lot of history in the AC, and they deserve to be back in the game. Luna Rossa, Alinghi, BAR, Artemis, an Australian team, a U.S team (maybe Oracle), Team France, I think we'll see a spanish team as well. 

Nah fuck Ernie and Lazza. They don't deserve to be within a thousand miles of the cup.

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Conner was on the news hear late last week about backing the kiwis and sailing in Auckland again. 
He has a house there too.

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BAR & TF say they will be back

Artemis to become an Australian team

+ another AUS

Clean suggests 2 USA teams, Alinghi as one?

Luna Rossa

Team Lazzasan

Spain

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15 hours ago, jaysper said:

Nah fuck Ernie and Lazza. They don't deserve to be within a thousand miles of the cup.

Jays every comp needs villain. I think it will add a very interesting dimension to have Alinghi back in NZ trying to win the cup again, as long as its not with Peter and Glenn...........

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2 minutes ago, JJD said:

Jays every comp needs villain. I think it will add a very interesting dimension to have Alinghi back in NZ trying to win the cup again, as long as its not with Peter and Glenn...........

I don't care if they are villains during the cup (like Conner was), its what the cunt did with the cup afterwards.

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I don't care if they are villains during the cup (like Conner was), its what the cunt did with the cup afterwards.

Be that as it may, Id be happy to see Ernie spend big to be in Auckland in 4 years time........and lose miserably in the challenger series.

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2 minutes ago, JJD said:

Be that as it may, Id be happy to see Ernie spend big to be in Auckland in 4 years time........and lose miserably in the challenger series.

And how would you feel if he won the cup again?

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

And how would you feel if he won the cup again?

I would hope that CNEV won it from him next time :D

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4 minutes ago, JJD said:

I would hope that CNEV won it from him next time :D

Ok, well that's just mean! Really mean! :D

What would they win it with? A radio controlled boat?

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4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Ok, well that's just mean! Really mean! :D

What would they win it with? A radio controlled boat?

Good question considering they  never had, nor have, nor having , nor have had, or even having had a regatta or boat or club house or members. Foiling Punts perhaps?

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16 minutes ago, jaysper said:

What would they win it with? A radio controlled boat?

I know someone who they can hire as their principal designer ....

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1 hour ago, ezyb said:

I know someone who they can hire as their principal designer ....

I knew Lord Xenu's name would pop up as soon as I posted that :D

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Couple of Skippers floating around with nothing to do and nothing on the horizon

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8 hours ago, JJD said:

Couple of Skippers floating around with nothing to do and nothing on the horizon

 

JS and RC you mean?

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some of you may already know this about me by now

buy i hope to god that ETNZ bring a strict nationality rule into it

lets be honest, AUS would come out strong, especially if ORACLE team AUS kick the bucket

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On 29/06/2017 at 2:49 AM, MR PLOW 270 said:

some of you may already know this about me by now

buy i hope to god that ETNZ bring a strict nationality rule into it

lets be honest, AUS would come out strong, especially if ORACLE team AUS kick the bucket

I think the impediment to Oz success in the cup is the lack of a money belt or someone like Dalton that can raise the shit out of money. 

I don't think there's a problem with a lack of talent.

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Nationality rule is all good but it will exclude money from BRICS which is who should also be encouraged to enter. 

As for the cockhole above who is spewed on about all those teams not taking part simply because it's ina monofilament....HAHAHAHA!

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Following the News that AC 36 will be raced in Monohulls here is how I see it:

Teams (NO for AC 36)

Oracle Team USA = Likely No

SoftBank Team Japan = Likely No

Artemis Racing = Lean No (TT would have the money but Nat. Requirement could/will play havoc with the Team)

Groupama Team France = Likely No

Teams up in the air (YES; Maybe for AC 36)

Land Rover BAR (Does Ben have enough money to get to the Start Line?)

Australian Challenger headed by Spithill, Slingsby, Lankford, NO and Iain Jensen....(Can Slingers, Jimmy convince someone from Oz to sponsor them?)

Different US Team (would have to be sponsored by the DeVos or Ricketts Family)

Team Alinghi (Would have preferred a Cat; Ernesto has the Money to challenge but does he have the Sailors & Designers?)

Teams (YES for AC 36)

ETNZ (Defender)

LR (CoR)

Final Takeaway:

Here is a direct Quote from little old GD just before AC 34 in San Francisco got started "The ridiculous costs needed to be absolutely nailed on the head".

The irony of his Quote is this: While the Defender of the 35th AC OTUSA tried everything to bring the costs down so that more Teams could participate (BAR, SBTJ, France) like little old Grant wanted it's become apparent that the costs for a Team wanting to challenge for AC 36 will go up (almost spike to epic porportions) and not come down more.

My currently guess estimate would be that any Challenger who is serious about winning AC 36 assuming ETNZ/LR allowing 2 Boats to be built would need a Budget between $ 150-180m to have a shot. How many future Sponsors are willing to pay this much of money?

If you look back at the last AC that had been held in AUCK (AC 31) only 3 Teams (Challengers) had a real shot at winning...Alinghi, Oracle and OneWorld....all other Teams were just making up Numbers to make the Event look good. Things are different now. 2008 the World had the most horrendous Financial Crisis. The Economy isn't booming. I'd rather doubt a Sponsor would pay money just to participate.

You have a history of being wrong in every post you've ever shit out here...

why don't you wait until the protocol is unveiled before wildly guessing, Groupama and SoftBank sponsored teams in the last AC knowing they had zero chance of winning the cup...

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2 minutes ago, ro! said:

You have a history of being wrong in every post you've ever shit out here...

why don't you wait until the protocol is unveiled before wildly guessing, Groupama and SoftBank sponsored teams in the last AC knowing they had zero chance of winning the cup...

In this case he's absolutely on the money though

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1 hour ago, MischiefBDA said:

In this case he's absolutely on the money though

You have the same history of being wrong as he does...

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3 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Where are the Japanese Sailors? They ain't there. I want a strong AC 36 where every Team that enters has a chance of winning. No way Groupama or SoftBank is pumping 100m+ into a Team just to be there.

So you want something that has never happened in the history of the AC, every team to have an equal chance of winning, and you want it now because NZ has the cup...in every sport there are teams with smaller budgets and no chance of winning, but that doesn't stop them entering the competition..

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27 minutes ago, ro! said:

So you want something that has never happened in the history of the AC, every team to have an equal chance of winning, and you want it now because NZ has the cup...in every sport there are teams with smaller budgets and no chance of winning, but that doesn't stop them entering the competition..

A4E was speaking of over 100 millions budgets, you know what you used to complained about RC plans, did you change your mind ?

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17 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

A4E was speaking of over 100 millions budgets, you know what you used to complained about RC plans, did you change your mind ?

I have never complained about how much it costs to race for the AC, it's always been about finding the money and building the best boat to win it..lazza has spent the most money and hired the best lawyers and has lost it to a better team..

Your new best friend has now pulled a $180M budget out of his arse to win it but now wants all the teams to have an equal chance to win..

 

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21 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

T-C, not only did ro! change his mind about 100 million budgets, Grant Dalton did too.

ETNZ will lose their beloved Cup AGAIN because they didn't control the costs of this thing called AC. It may or may not happen in 2021 but it will happen down the road because at some Point a billionaire will come, pumping some $ 200m+ into a Team and snatch it from the Kiwis unless they limit Teams to a certain budget.

Correct, not sure GD can control P$B lust for big budgets.

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Budgets are going to really blow out this time around. It always happens when there is a new rule and there is no way of limiting it. Worse, they are talking about boats that will need more sailors and that is going to jack up costs as well. 

Will they limit teams to 1 boat? I would be very surprised with a brand new concept. In the last cup, without the 45' surrogates, it would have been impossible to develop the boats. There won't be any surrogates and to only have a single shot at designing a winning boat would be a huge risk for the people making the rules, so why would they. The only way they could do it is if there is a large element of one design.

Even if they say you cannot sail 2 boats at a time, the increases in crew crew size will probably add $10-15m to a campaign budget alone. Design teams are going to need to be bigger because you have to design the platforms as well. You are going to need a sail budget that i suspect will exceed the costs of the wings. I find it hard to see any area where you will save money compared with the last campaign. I also suspect that housing the teams in NZ will be more expensive than it was in Bermuda.

Will $100m cut it next time? I think that is a minimum but some will spend way more. Spending doesn't guarantee winning, but under spending does put you at a disadvantage.

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On 6/28/2017 at 11:42 AM, StumbleNola said:

For the US teams...

Oracle - maybe 

Jim Clark - Comanche

 

???

 

OR-Xerox won't challenge in AC36, for the simple reason Larry doesn't want to be humiliated again so soon after AC35. They have never been competitive when they've had to qualify through a Challenger Selection Series. And even with the massive design head-start advantage they had over the Challengers in AC34 and AC35, they were lucky to defend in 2013 and had their butts reamed in Bermuda even after gaming the rules to disadvantage the eventual winner.

They were lucky that Bertarelli handed them the DoG opportunity in 2010 otherwise they would still be also-rans...

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21 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I find it hard to see any area where you will save money compared with the last campaign. I also suspect that housing the teams in NZ will be more expensive than it was in Bermuda.

ETNZ will make the biggest savings because most of the 90 odd people that they will employ are already living with their families in Auckland.

ETNZ have also demonstrated that you do not need to develop your boat at the sailing venue so teams like LRBAR will also make similar savings.

Teams like Oracle and Artemis will be at a disadvantage because they do not have a home and that's as it should be.

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5 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

ETNZ will make the biggest savings because most of the 90 odd people that they will employ are already living with their families in Auckland.

ETNZ have also demonstrated that you do not need to develop your boat at the sailing venue so teams like LRBAR will also make similar savings.

Teams like Oracle and Artemis will be at a disadvantage because they do not have a home and that's as it should be.

I really haven't got a clue what you are babbling on about! All I said is that it is going to cost a lot more to be in NZ than it is to be in Bermuda. I believe that it is fairly hard to compete in an event if you are not there and there will come a time when they will have to move to NZ.

I also don't really care if ETNZ save money. I am interested in what the costs are going to be for a challenging team and they are certainly going to be more than last time, probably by some way.

Another thing which will up costs is the comment made that some of the event will be in Italy. I guess the Italians will save a bit of money but for everybody else, it will have serious budget implications.

Spin it however you want, it is hard to get away from the fact this time around teams will need deep pockets. That's not a complaint because that is the AC. It is a fact and one that will impact the number of teams that enter.

 

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19 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

ETNZ will make the biggest savings because most of the 90 odd people that they will employ are already living with their families in Auckland.

ETNZ have also demonstrated that you do not need to develop your boat at the sailing venue so teams like LRBAR will also make similar savings.

Teams like Oracle and Artemis will be at a disadvantage because they do not have a home and that's as it should be.

What if P$B has a paper signed by GD allowing them to push for a high budget boat to eliminate they former "protégé" ?

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Many team sports limit teams player payroll. NFL and NBA for instance.

It has the effect of forcing teams to add a number of younger unproven members to the teams at lower cost contracts to balance out the superstar contracts. Rookie contracts.

Just a thought.

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2 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

I also don't really care if ETNZ save money. I am interested in what the costs are going to be for a challenging team and they are certainly going to be more than last time, probably by some way.

------ snip ------

Another thing which will up costs is the comment made that some of the event will be in Italy. I guess the Italians will save a bit of money but for everybody else, it will have serious budget implications..

You may not care if ETNZ save themselves money but we can be confident that ETNZ care.

As for the challenging teams why on earth would ETNZ be concerned about their costs .. I seem to recall that five teams voted against a planned event in Auckland which had the effect of reducing ETNZ's income .. I for one am delighted that their attempt to eliminate ETNZ has backfired.

We don't really know if an event will be held in Italy .. wait for the protocol to come out.

 

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

As for the challenging teams why on earth would ETNZ be concerned about their costs .

 

Because they are screwed if not enough challengers turn up to justify taxpayer input to team and event costs.

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28 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Because they are screwed if not enough challengers turn up to justify taxpayer input to team and event costs.

Do you think so? .. Event costs will go up if there are a lot of entrants .. for all you know they might have a series in Italy to reduce the number of entrants while ETNZ carry on with their development in Auckland. 

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43 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Because they are screwed if not enough challengers turn up to justify taxpayer input to team and event costs.

Dream on LOL!! The success of AC36 will not depend on the OR-Xerox poodles challenging. The cheaters won't challenge because they don't want to be humiliated again. Groupama and Japan? Waste of space. Artemis? Maybe..

Whatever our government contributes to AC36 will be money well spent, with the world-wide exposure the AC generates easily quantifiable. Don't compare Auckland to that con-job Russ and Larry did on Bermuda.

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Teams spending money in AUK is a driver of the business case. Qualifiers in Italy? well we shall see. I'd be surprised when the intent to capture team spending in NZ. Yes it's confirmed there will be something in Italy, my WAG is that will be some kind of ACTS.

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11 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

From Bob Fisher at

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/americas-cup/bob-fisher-potential-americas-cup-teams/

Russell Coutts, now back in Auckland, has stated in an e-mail to me: “My understanding is that Oracle/Larry will not be entering.”

"It would appear that one Rich American Called Larry Ellison has had enough – the cost of the Cup has proved too high even for him. Which leaves one to wonder just who will show up?"

I hope I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the Kiwis are narrowing the field down to an insanely narrow bunch:

The nationality rules knock out most potential teams and leave really only France, UK, Italy, US, NZ, Australia, plus a few others at the margins (Sweden, Spain, etc).

The location and need to have the races in the European and US night time, in winter, knock out any teams relying on sponsorship that relies on a positive ROI, e.g. not vanity sponsorship. That decimates a slew of US/Eur sponsors such as Groupama, MAPFRE, etc.

The cost of building a new platform and being competitive knocks out anyone who can't commit Larry-level dollars and Larry-level technology. 

So here's my depressing prediction for teams making it to the line:

ENTZ

Luna Rosa

One Aussie team backed 75/25 by private/sponsorship dollars

That's it. I think that Sir Ben will try but will find that Land Rover is only willing to chip in a few bucks and will come up short on raising the rest. I think that one or two US billionaires will toy with it but will ultimately decide that they cannot be competitive on a new platform in such a short period of time. 

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I'd put the chances of BAR being back higher than an AUS team. But no, not a certainty. There's certainly one large white elephant in Portsmouth if LRBAR was a one-shot effort.

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limp is right...

 

But then again think of all the new teams you are going to be able to champion.........and then abandon

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13 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

As for the challenging teams why on earth would ETNZ be concerned about their costs ..

This surprises me. If ETNZ show no concern for costs, then it will prove once and for all that Dalton is a hypocrite and that he says things he doesn't believe in just to wind people up. You cannot spend years attacking others for allowing costs to spiral out of control and trying to buy the cup and then not care about costs when you are in control. I think Dalton is a better man than that., but clearly his supporters aren't;)

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14 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

 

As for the challenging teams why on earth would ETNZ be concerned about their costs ..

 

 

Amazing how some can change their discourse in such a short time. You make Larry you good here again.

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6 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

From Bob Fisher at

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/americas-cup/bob-fisher-potential-americas-cup-teams/

Russell Coutts, now back in Auckland, has stated in an e-mail to me: “My understanding is that Oracle/Larry will not be entering.”

TE is a touch less convinced than Fisher, and maybe RC. Italics mine:

"As I said in the post here on SI earlier this week with my take on the number of teams/countries for AC36, never count Larry out. That doesn't mean that I think he will muster another challenge, but it is too early to tell. Everyone, including Larry, is waiting for the Protocol to be issued by RNZYS and CNDS, promised later this month."

https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2017/09/14/AC36-Bob-Fisher-on-potential-Americas-Cup-teams

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Australians in the Oracle team have been told that Oracle/Larry will not be entering. Spinbot can say what he wants, but his team is finished.

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4 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

Australians in the Oracle team have been told that Oracle/Larry will not be entering. Spinbot can say what he wants, but his team is finished.

Am simply quoting what others are saying.

My guess is that LE really is done, which is actually fine by me, whatever, but why would he be 'waiting to see the Protocol' if that were already true? 

The guy I hope most from his team to get a role in AC36 is JS, whose book arrived in my mailbox today. 

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6 hours ago, 2Newts said:

"It would appear that one Rich American Called Larry Ellison has had enough – the cost of the Cup has proved too high even for him. Which leaves one to wonder just who will show up?"

 

Larry is many things but stupid is not one of them. He had his chance to win the Auld Mug handed to him by Bertarelli's fake CoR and Larry used the power of his financial muscle to win the DoG match. Leveraging their AC33 multihull "experience", they opted to go with AC72 multis in AC34 - that did not go too well for them even with all their "experience" and they barely squeaked home. For AC35, they stayed with multis but manipulated the rules to give themselves every advantage they could - still was not enough.

Larry knows his AC history painfully well - he's never been competitive going through a Challenger Selection Series, and with AC36 confirmed to be in monohulls he clearly does not want to be humiliated again.

Good riddance!!

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It would be interesting to know what else besides the boat type GD sold out to P$B in that 2015 deal he took. We also now know that it included racing in Italy but: It may even have included a 3rd AC cycle of design sharing, which on top of the likely 3 or more times bigger budget between LR and ETNZ could spell trouble for GD. What else? For one, P$B sounded insistent that the Protocol details he'd agreed to would get announced this month.. What happens if that deal gets broken? What happens if the Protocol then gets changes?

'The Devil Wears Prada' ?

Pete Burling said a 'step back' to monohulls would be a mistake, there could be plenty of problems ahead due to that deal made 'with the devil.' Does anyone think GA, multiple-time multihull World Champion and wing-sail trimmer extraordinaire was happy to find out what P$B has announced?

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On 9/13/2017 at 2:29 PM, Alinghi4ever said:

But TT isn't going to AUCK just to participate. He wants to win.

So he is financing a 2nd RC44 program full of young Swedes for shits and giggles?  I doubt it.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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28 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It would be interesting to know what else besides the boat type GD sold out to P$B in that 2015 deal he took. (Snip)

 

Undoubtedly, GD sold his childrens' souls to the, Devil. ;)

What's your point again, Stinger?

 

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55 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 What happens if that deal gets broken?

GD will have to bend, otherwise P$B could make their signed agreement public, which could imply  legal options from other teams.

 

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6 hours ago, nav said:

limp is right...

 

But then again think of all the new teams you are going to be able to champion.........and then abandon

LOL! I didn't read A4E's comment because s/he is on ignore. But I loooove the reply!

Anyway, this can't really be A4E because s/he had two tanties and "stormed out the door" never to return didn't s/he?

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It would be interesting to know what else besides the boat type GD sold out to P$B in that 2015 deal he took. We also now know that it included racing in Italy but: It may even have included a 3rd AC cycle of design sharing, which on top of the likely 3 or more times bigger budget between LR and ETNZ could spell trouble for GD. What else? For one, P$B sounded insistent that the Protocol details he'd agreed to would get announced this month.. What happens if that deal gets broken? What happens if the Protocol then gets changes?

'The Devil Wears Prada' ?

Pete Burling said a 'step back' to monohulls would be a mistake, there could be plenty of problems ahead due to that deal made 'with the devil.' Does anyone think GA, multiple-time multihull World Champion and wing-sail trimmer extraordinaire was happy to find out what P$B has announced?

Well there is certainly going to be some design collaboration given that they are seemingly designing the class of boat together...

They will certainly have created a design that conforms to the new rules during this process, where as everyone else may just get the specifications for it.

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1 hour ago, Boybland said:

Well there is certainly going to be some design collaboration given that they are seemingly designing the class of boat together...

They will certainly have created a design that conforms to the new rules during this process, where as everyone else may just get the specifications for it.

Agreed, there's a real chance of that already happening.

 

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16 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Am simply selectively quoting anything what others randoms are saying if it allows me to troll NZ  (edited for accuracy)

......

The guy I hope most from his team to get a role in AC36 is JS, whose book arrived in my mailbox today. 

 

He's last years news at best, (hopefully a better author than helm),  but it's clear some Ozzies can see the future even if you can't and are talking instead to the guy who should have been helming in AC35

 

 

13 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

GD will have to bend, otherwise P$B could make their signed agreement  :lol:  public, which could imply  legal options :lol: from other teams.

 

 

Showing off your incisive lawyer's skills again TC?

PB said monos, monos it is, the rest is clearly still being worked out by those best fit, so Protocol in September, with some ACClass generalities - details to follow.....

Alles klar?

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8 hours ago, nav said:

 

 

PB said monos, monos it is, the rest is clearly still being worked out by those best fit, so Protocol in September, with some ACClass generalities - details to follow.....

Alles klar?

^^ Obviously monos, IMO, GD has no say and will bend over. The fun part will be to decide the details of the protocol when P$B wants something and the challengers something else. :)

As speculation is the fun part of this forum, I speculate that P$B will impose his agenda first, challengers will only decide details that don't matter, which means there will no real consultation. :D

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ Obviously monos, IMO, GD has no say and will bend over. The fun part will be to decide the details of the protocol when P$B wants something and the challengers something else. :)

As speculation is the fun part of this forum, I speculate that P$B will impose his agenda first, challengers will only decide details that don't matter, which means there will no real consultation. :D

You've been around here for many years..you really think GD is gonna bend over for anyone? Why don't you guys wait a couple weeks until the protocol comes out and then slag it off..

 You, spinbot and the the neveright alinghi twat are becoming the forums new crazed Indian..

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2 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ Obviously monos, IMO, GD has no say and will bend over. The fun part will be to decide the details of the protocol when P$B wants something and the challengers something else. :)

As speculation is the fun part of this forum, I speculate that P$B will impose his agenda first, challengers will only decide details that don't matter, which means there will no real consultation. :D

Meh! This is just you shit stirring.

Paying attention to you with regards to this is akin to asking Doug for advice on AC50 foils. *yawn*

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41 minutes ago, ro! said:

You've been around here for many years..you really think GD is gonna bend over for anyone? Why don't you guys wait a couple weeks until the protocol comes out and then slag it off..

 You, spinbot and the the neveright alinghi twat are becoming the forums new crazed Indian..

Funny how the gang of 5 was such a bad idea and the gang of 2 such a good one.

Funny how teams spending under RC was such a bad idea and such a good one with GD.

I remember your other complaints, are you going to increase the list ?

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49 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Meh! This is just you shit stirring.

Paying attention to you with regards to this is akin to asking Doug for advice on AC50 foils. *yawn*

Jaysper, instead of trying to parrot ro!, perhaps you could try to tell us something interesting, I just received a photo taken by friends of GD in front of Lac de Genvève this morning, was he there to buy chocolate ?

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I doubt GD will bend over on anything else, but it is very clear to me that the choice of monohull vs multihull is out of his hands and that decision was made by Bertelli. From there on, i suspect and hope it is a proper negotiated protocol as I don't think GD would allow anything else. 

My fear is that in an attempt to not look like they have stepped from the 21st century back to the 19th century, they don't go for something that is so radical that it makes a fast boat but a shit match racer. It is an irony that the slower the boats, the better the match racing.

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21 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Jaysper, instead of trying to parrot ro!, perhaps you could try to tell us something interesting, I just received a photo taken by friends of GD in front of Lac de Genvève this morning, was he there to buy chocolate ?

Firstly it's impossible for me to parrot ro!mo because I have him on ignore.

Secondly what the fuck has that to do with your yet again bullshit assertion that GD is bending over?

It's like me saying "Bob eats spaghetti, therefore American tanks are the best".

See the link? No, not do I. Same with your current line of dribble.

Just shit stirring. To what end is what I can't figure out.

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11 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I doubt GD will bend over on anything else, but it is very clear to me that the choice of monohull vs multihull is out of his hands and that decision was made by Bertelli. From there on, i suspect and hope it is a proper negotiated protocol as I don't think GD would allow anything else. 

Events in Italy is something that P$B also announced as part of his deal.. Which could be interesting considering the timeline and the CiC rules he also referenced. 

What is the shipping time between NZ and Italy?

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Events in Italy is something that P$B also announced as part of the deal.. Which could be interesting considering the timeline and the CiC rules he also referenced. 

What is the shipping time between NZ and Italy?

I don't see that as bending over. Based on the past, I think that GD would see it as OK to have an event in Italy. It would be very hypocritical to have complained so much about the lack of opportunity for TNZ and not agree to it in Italy.

It does throw up a number of interesting challenges. I think the shipping will be something like 5 weeks but for any team not based in europe, you will lose time shipping the boat to Italy. I doubt you could fly the new class (too wide). This is another reason i believe we will see 2 boats per team. NZ will lose something like 10 weeks if they don't have 2 boats. 

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21 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I don't see that as bending over. Based on the past, I think that GD would see it as OK to have an event in Italy. It would be very hypocritical to have complained so much about the lack of opportunity for TNZ and not agree to it in Italy.

It does throw up a number of interesting challenges. I think the shipping will be something like 5 weeks but for any team not based in europe, you will lose time shipping the boat to Italy. I doubt you could fly the new class (too wide). This is another reason i believe we will see 2 boats per team. NZ will lose something like 10 weeks if they don't have 2 boats. 

Why do you assume that ETNZ would attend a regatta in Italy? .. They can have a regatta for the challengers in Italy and ETNZ can use the time to develop their boats in New Zealand which is where the AC will take place.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Funny how the gang of 5 was such a bad idea and the gang of 2 such a good one.

Funny how teams spending under RC was such a bad idea and such a good one with GD.

I remember your other complaints, are you going to increase the list ?

Just turning my words around does not make you right...the gang of five was not right, they tried to disadvantage TNZ and LR and perpetuate a protocol that no one watched or cared about but kept sailors employed for the foreseeable future..

I don't care about budgets and keeping costs to a minimum..it's the AC and it's expensive to play...if that's a  PB win it's ok...lazza had his turn and with russes help fucked it up, TNZ beat them, it's thier turn, let's see what happens...

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35 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Why do you assume that ETNZ would attend a regatta in Italy? .. They can have a regatta for the challengers in Italy and ETNZ can use the time to develop their boats in New Zealand which is where the AC will take place.

It would take a very stupid CoR to agree to that. Why would you give the defender such a huge advantage of not losing shipping time? The only reason why Bertelli wants an event in Italy is for commercial benefits and it wouldn't be much of an event without the defender.

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8 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

It would take a very stupid CoR to agree to that. Why would you give the defender such a huge advantage of not losing shipping time? The only reason why Bertelli wants an event in Italy is for commercial benefits and it wouldn't be much of an event without the defender.

The concept of the defender racing against the challengers at a foreign venue started with Oracle and hopefully it will end with ETNZ.

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1 minute ago, Terry Hollis said:

The concept of the defender racing against the challengers at a foreign venue started with Oracle and hopefully it will end with ETNZ.

You are incorrect on that one. Go check your history (even back in the 12M days). It wouldn't be the defender racing against the challenger, because what really counts is that they won't be using their race boats. It will also depend on format. There are a number of ways they can structure an event using the new class and not break that tradition, 

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10 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

The concept of the defender racing against the challengers at a foreign venue started with Oracle

Ahem. Alinghi. ACTS.

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24 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

Do you know what the word "foreign" means?

Yes, and you are still wrong. Go have a look at the Acts leading up to 2007. 

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55 minutes ago, Modurn-ate said:

 The Prada Challenger elimination series in Italy makes sence and encourages sponsors.

 

I see. Would you mind publishing the rest of the protocol here too, since you obviously have it? The boat rule would be nice too, that would save a lot of speculation.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

Alinghi raced in the home waters of the event .. Oracle raced all over the world.

AC32 was in Valencia and ACT6, for example, was in Sweden. That's a pretty expansive interpretation of "home waters".

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11 hours ago, ro! said:

.if that's a  PB win it's ok...lazza had his turn and with russes help fucked it up, TNZ beat them, it's thier turn, let's see what happens...

On that we agree, and I hope w'll have other european teams too.

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17 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Events in Italy is something that P$B also announced as part of his deal.. Which could be interesting considering the timeline and the CiC rules he also referenced. 

What is the shipping time between NZ and Italy?

Shipping? As in an air lift?

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