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9 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

How times have changed. I thought it was yacht clubs who entered, not teams. I thought RNZYS were the defender, not ETNZ. How times have changed that we can so easily forget the clubs and just talk about the teams ;)

How many times were GGYC mentioned in AC35 or AC34 for that matter? How many Anarchists can name BAR's YC without googling it? The YCs delegate their authority to their representative Racing Team.

Now fuck off and whine about something else.

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3 hours ago, Indio said:

Now stop whining or fuck off

FIFY

Yep latest conspiracy theory from the usual desperadoes - the ones who accuse others of 'continuous aggressive attacks against other teams' by the way :blink:

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14 hours ago, Indio said:

How many times were GGYC mentioned in AC35 or AC34 for that matter?

Now fuck off and whine about something else.

So, after whining for years against them you now take GGYC as a model for TNZ, you are an embarassment for your fellow kiwis.

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Funny how sensitive the fanboys have. Maybe British sarcasm is too much for some.

I find the debate about loyalty and chasing money interesting. Despite listing a number of names, I have not yet seen any that left their team for another to improve their pay. For instance, Coutts and Barker both left TNZ because they couldn't agree on their future roles in the team. That they later got paid much more on joining a new team doesn't mean they left for money.

 

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The ETNZ grinders that Clarkey goes on, and on and on about, reminds me of when Alinghi released their grinders when they (secretly) chose to allow an engine powered system.

In ETNZ’s case they chose early in the game, based on Gashby’s advice, to go with cyclors; to not hire McFarlane and the others for AC35. GD had explained it in several interviews, including the one with Clean.

Those grinders may have been paid well by SBTJ (hopefully they were) but: they’d already been jettisoned out by ETNZ. This time, the same could happen but with a harder go at getting any outside-NZ gig.Guys like cyclist Moloney are getting into Finn training for the Olympics and the McFarlanes have lost out. Bad blood..

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31 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

The ETNZ grinders that Clarkey goes on, and on and on about, reminds me of when Alinghi released their grinders when they (secretly) chose to allow an engine powered system.

In ETNZ’s case they chose early in the game, based on Gashby’s advice, to go with cyclors; to not hire McFarlane and the others for AC35. GD had explained it in several interviews, including the one with Clean.

Those grinders may have been paid well by SBTJ (hopefully they were) but: they’d already been jettisoned out by ETNZ. This time, the same could happen but with a harder go at getting any outside-NZ gig.Guys like cyclist Moloney are getting into Finn training for the Olympics and the McFarlanes have lost out. Bad blood..

Hey, it wasn't me talking about grinders, it was the other guy, I think he was slightly inebriated haha

He just said he didn't know who any of the grinders were (and by the way, it wasn't just grinders) who left Team NZ for Team Japan. He'd never heard of them and no one would ever remember them because they were losers anyway. 

That's exactly right, they were jettisoned by Team NZ, like most Team NZ members are after each campaign. Dean Barker wasn't jettisoned. He decided to go on his own accord, because for some reason he felt screwed. You can't tell Me he didn't have a word to the other guys to go with him.

Its the cycle of an Americas Cup. Even Burling hasn't re-signed yet, and that would lead me to assume neither has Tuke. Dalton stated the only guys who retained were key guys like Bernasconi. The rest were off competing in other disciplines, but would be back once the next cycle gets underway. Those guys (Junior and Maloney) will be back once the ball starts rolling on the next campaign.

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Just now, sclarke said:

Hey, it wasn't me talking about grinders, it was the other guy, I think he was slightly inebriated haha

He just said he didn't know who any of the grinders were (and by the way, it wasn't just grinders) who left Team NZ for Team Japan. He'd never heard of them and no one would ever remember the,m because they were losers anyway. 

That's exactly right, they were jettisoned by Team NZ, like most Team NZ members are after each campaign. Dean Barker wasn't jettisoned. He decided to go on his own accord, because for some reason he felt screwed. You can't tell Me he didn't have a word to the other guys to go with him.

Its the cycle of an Americas Cup. Even Burling hasn't re-signed yet, and that would lead me to assume neither has Tuke. Dalton stated the only guys who retained were key guys like Bernasconi. The rest were off competing in other disciplines, but would be back once the next cycle gets underway. Those guys (Junior and Maloney) will be back once the ball starts rolling on the next campaign.

so now you're trying to say that you were not the first one to drop those names implying that they left for money??!

"Loyalty - Dean Barker, Jerome Lomas, Derek Saward and Winston McFarlane, all Kiwi's who left ETNZ because Dean Barker felt he was screwed by ETNZ. Loyal only to themselves."

seems like you jump ship quicker than them when someone who REALLY knows their shit comes in

don't try to say you weren't talking about the grinders mate

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1 hour ago, inebriated said:

so now you're trying to say that you were not the first one to drop those names implying that they left for money??!

"Loyalty - Dean Barker, Jerome Lomas, Derek Saward and Winston McFarlane, all Kiwi's who left ETNZ because Dean Barker felt he was screwed by ETNZ. Loyal only to themselves."

seems like you jump ship quicker than them when someone who REALLY knows their shit comes in

don't try to say you weren't talking about the grinders mate

No kid, I said you were the one going on about grinders, which you were, remember? You said Dennis Connor wasn't a grinder, then I said to watch the video of 95. You asked for some names who I thought left for the money. I gave you 3, you just didn't know who they are and that you had never heard of the 3 names I gave you, so I educated you about who they were and what position they held on the Softbank Team Japan boat as grinders, and also that they were part of ETNZ also as grinders, before they left with Barker. You said "Well no one remembers the losers" which is when I said "Tell that to Dennis Connor, thats when the grinders topic came up. There ya go kid...like I said, you're digging yourself a deeper hole

 

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Just now, sclarke said:

No kid, I said you were the one going on about grinders, which you were, remember? You said Dennis Connor wasn't a grinder, then I said to watch the video of 95. You asked for some names who I thought left for the money. I gave you 3, you just didn't know who they are. We got onto grinders because you know nothing about the Americas Cup and didn't watch Americas Cup 34, so had never heard of the 3 names I gave you, or the fact that they were part of a team in AC35. That's how we got onto grinders kid.

"You asked for some names who I thought left for the money. I gave you 3"

yeah, but then as soon as stingray comes in, you admit that you reckon they copped the boot from TNZ

you cant suck Daltons dick while you try to suck up to a realist sclarke

shit doesn't work that way

"You said Dennis Connor wasn't a grinder, then I said to watch the video of 95"

yeah mate

i sometimes make bacon and eggs

am i a fucking chef by trade?

no

just because the man fucking touches a pedestal after a halyard breaks doesn't mean he isn't the fucking skipper of the boat

Glen Ashby steered for an AC34 race (hardly a race)

was he the the skipper of ETNZ in 2013

no

jeez, no wonder you're on -10 rep

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11 minutes ago, inebriated said:

"You asked for some names who I thought left for the money. I gave you 3"

yeah, but then as soon as stingray comes in, you admit that you reckon they copped the boot from TNZ

you cant suck Daltons dick while you try to suck up to a realist sclarke

shit doesn't work that way

"You said Dennis Connor wasn't a grinder, then I said to watch the video of 95"

yeah mate

i sometimes make bacon and eggs

am i a fucking chef by trade?

no

just because the man fucking touches a pedestal after a halyard breaks doesn't mean he isn't the fucking skipper of the boat

Glen Ashby steered for an AC34 race (hardly a race)

was he the the skipper of ETNZ in 2013

no

jeez, no wonder you're on -10 rep

Do you even read posts before you respond? They were Jettisoned from ETNZ just as every other member was, including Burling, Tuke and Ray Davies which is why Davies went back the 52 Superseries and Burling and Tuke are competing in the Volvo. All 3 will be back with ETNZ once AC36 gets underway. It is worth mentioning all ETNZ staff who were part of the team in Bermuda had to take a significant pay cut to do so, and were offered contracts with other teams, but remained with the Team because they were proud Kiwi's and chose to represent New Zealand. The others, not so much, they left for supposed "Greener pastures" (more money), as Dean Barker stated, He thought Team NZ was quote "a toxic environment in which he did not feel comfortable being a part of any longer".

No, he wasn't skipper, but he was a wing trimmer and back up helmsman. Dennis Connor came up because you said "No one remembers the losers" in which you got it wrong again, because Connor has lost the Cup, yet will always be remembered as a huge part of it, so clearly they do remember the losers. So you're wrong kid. 

Kid, you're getting it all wrong because you don't know anything about the Cup.

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4 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So, after whining for years against them you now take GGYC as a model for TNZ, you are an embarassment for your fellow kiwis.

Keep posting and proving how totally pathetic your comprehension of English really is. 12000 posts and still an ignoramus, worthy of of the ignominy of being ignored.

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

Dean Barker wasn't jettisoned. He decided to go on his own accord, because for some reason he felt screwed. You can't tell Me he didn't have a word to the other guys to go with him.

There you go again. You are trying to make a case that these guys left ETNZ and went straight to SBTJ. They did not. They were unemployed for a significant period of tim,e after they left ETNZ. They did not leave ETNZ so they could go to SBTJ. They left without any idea of what their future would hold. They did not leave ETNZ for the money, which is what you have been trying to insinuate.

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49 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

There you go again. You are trying to make a case that these guys left ETNZ and went straight to SBTJ. They did not. They were unemployed for a significant period of tim,e after they left ETNZ. They did not leave ETNZ so they could go to SBTJ. They left without any idea of what their future would hold. They did not leave ETNZ for the money, which is what you have been trying to insinuate.

Sure, Dean had absolutely no idea he was about to be made CEO of Team Japan. (The highest executive position there is for an Americas Cup team) No idea at all. You don't quit a job and not know you are going to be made CEO of another competitor. And you also know with a promotion comes a significant pay rise. I guess you're gonna say "Russell Coutts left Team NZ and didn't know he was going to be skipper of an Alinghi team which would compete against his former employer. But go ahead... try and make a convincing argument that Russell didn't leave for the money either. And before you say, "well just because he ended up on the salary he was paid, doesn't mean he left because of it. Thats B.S. Of course he did! If you're offered a significant promotion with a significant payrise, you take it. Team Japan was basically an Oracle team funded by Oracle and run by Oracle, everyone could see that. Do you remember the photo of Jimmy and Dean side by side with a caption that said #letsgetDalton. Quite symbolic. Well everyone knows how that turned out.

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Just now, sclarke said:

Sure, Dean had absolutely no idea he was about to be made CEO of Team Japan. No idea at all. You don't quit a job and not know you are going to be made CEO of a competitor. Just like Russell Coutts left Team NZ and "didn't know" he was going to be skipper of an Alinghi team which would compete against his former employer. But go ahead... try and make a convincing argument that Russell didn't leave for the money either. And before you say, "well just because he ended up on the salary he was paid, doesn't mean he left because of it. Thats B.S. Team Japan was basically an Oracle team funded by Oracle and run by Oracle, everyone could see that. Do you remember the photo of Jimmy and Dean side by side with a caption that said #letsgetDalton. Well everyone knows how that turned out.

ever wondered why you are on -10 and people like Team_GBR are on +100's???????

because he isn't a tinfoil hat fuckwit

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2 minutes ago, inebriated said:

ever wondered why you are on -10 and people like Team_GBR are on +100's???????

because he isn't a tinfoil hat fuckwit

Hahahahahahahahah I'm sure the rest of the forum would strongly disagree with that. 

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Just now, sclarke said:

Hahahahahahahahah I'm sure the rest of the forum would strongly disagree with that. 

the rest of the forum gave you the -10, and liked Team_GBR

numbers don't lie

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I guess we will know in due course how many teams are going to enter.

At least 3 it seems.

I wish the Aussies would mount a challenge!

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6 hours ago, inebriated said:

the rest of the forum gave you the -10, and liked Team_GBR

numbers don't lie

Ocean Racing Anarchy. Not Americas Cup. Its a tough crowd

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6 hours ago, Kiwing said:

I guess we will know in due course how many teams are going to enter.

At least 3 it seems.

I wish the Aussies would mount a challenge!

Late January and kind of like crickets from the other possible teams. Lots of activity in NY, lots of discussion and planning for the bases in Auckland, one announcement about an investment in LR (from a member of the family ... sort of like announcing that Oracle would support Larry's team in AC 35), and one news article about a second Italian challenger from a "yacht club" that seems to be mostly a youth sailing outfit. But not much from ENTZ, not much from BAR, and RNZYS posts multiple times a week on their social media about their regular regattas and other activities. I keep coming back here for good news about new teams, and I keep reading lots of posts that are, well, anarchistic. 

C'mon Aussies! C'mon Chinese! C'mon anyone!!! 

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^ That was a pretty wordy way of informing everyone that you are uninformed.

NYYC has been declared as the 2nd challenger

BAR has clearly said don't expect anything but PR from us until the rule is published and digested...

So just relax (or organise a challenge on behalf of the Upper-Left YC)

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re-posting https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/100915735/team-nz-comfortable-with-peter-burling-and-blair-tuke-mixing-olympics-with-americas-cup

While Britain's Ben Ainslie Racing, Italian challenger of record Luna Ross and the New York Yacht Club all publicly announced their challenges late last year, there has been no word of further syndicates.

"Don't read anything into the silence, the entries are coming in," Dalton said, happy with the initial response.

Commercial sensitivities meant some of the new challengers didn't want their hand revealed just yet and that needed to be respected rather than creating speculation.

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ Grants channelling Russell ? Now I'm worried!

While GD is not specific about the entries being being past or future-tense, he is being more declarative than what RC typically was, so it likely is true or else GD would not be saying that the entries ‘are’ coming in and to ignore the ‘Radio Silence’ (a slide title TE actually showed this week with a touch of mystery/humor/curiosity)

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3 minutes ago, nav said:

TE would be off the bottom of any page of 'insiders' GD would ever be concerned with

Could be, but TE has already had interviews with Russell Green and Dan Bernasconi, and did use the exact same ‘radio silence’ phrase on a slide this week. 

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On 1/25/2018 at 5:01 PM, Tornado-Cat said:

Ah ah ah ah, which you don't.....Indiot :lol:

Point proven...AGAIN! Iggy for you now..

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On 27/01/2018 at 6:04 PM, Stingray~~ said:

Commercial sensitivities meant some of the new challengers didn't want their hand revealed just yet and that needed to be respected rather than creating speculation.

"Commercial sensitivities" means commercial teams, which live off media exposure. We are asked to believe there are commercial teams that don't want that exposure. If RC had said such a thing, how many here would have believed him?

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

"Commercial sensitivities" means commercial teams, which live off media exposure. We are asked to believe there are commercial teams that don't want that exposure. If RC had said such a thing, how many here would have believed him?

You mean to tell me the same words said by two different people always carry the same weight and meaning for you?

Some people you trust/believe, some others you don't...

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Oh I see. We should trust something that stinks of bullshit, because of who made it.

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10 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Oh I see. We should trust something that stinks of bullshit, because of who made it.

Nice try... jog on and watch some dogs...

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I am getting Deja Vu all over again! 2 things seem to be always true

1. How many times have we heard that the previous defender was (insert every negative you can think of) but the new defender is completely different? 

2. Fanboys will be fanboys and will believe whatever their heroes say, even if it sounds to the rest of us as same old, same old.

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31 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I am getting Deja Vu all over again! 2 things seem to be always true

1. How many times have we heard that the previous defender was (insert every negative you can think of) but the new defender is completely different? 

2. Fanboys will be fanboys and will believe whatever their heroes say, even if it sounds to the rest of us as same old, same old.

You and Dog are just putting words in people's mouths for the sake of it...

No-one has stated that they believe what GD said. Instead DW is just proactively predicting hypocrisy before it even happens... and you are then following on too...

Do I trust GD more than RC? Based on their track record fuck yeah! Do I have a blanket belief and trust in everything GD as if he was the messiah... of course fucking not...

If you guys are going to try and argue that RC should be regarded by Kiwi fans in exactly the same light on every word and phrase as GD then you are on another fucking planet...and are just trolling plain and simple

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Would you have hired Grant Simmer as CEO for Landrover BAR? As the outgoing GM of the failed Oracle USA team it's easy to see Simmer as a huge coup for BAR as the teams new CEO but did he deliver for Oracle? They were last minute winners defending the cup the first time as ETNZ jumped them with a better early design and did they learn from that when they lost the cup? Or does the blame rest with Coutts? 

The new boat design maybe a huge obstacle for teams considering an entry into the AC:

 

Quote Simmer: Finally, we've had an important few weeks with the announcement of the Protocol and boat concept, what are your thoughts so far and what is the biggest challenge that lies ahead?

The biggest challenge is the boat. What stands out from the class information we have received is that it's a bold decision by Emirates Team New Zealand. It's radical and ambitious and presents a huge challenge both at a sporting level and technical level. For sure it will be exciting, fast and edgy which is good for the Cup.

Currently it looks like the boat build costs, technical development and logistics are going to be extremely expensive but we are ready to take on both the financial, technical and sporting challenge.

 

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^ Simmer is hopefully wiser now to the ‘throw the ball as far as you can through the Design Rule’ attitude that ETNZ has been taking, over what the Rule’s apparent intent has recently been.. It may require people who can think outside the box better than what he can; Grunt is not a one man team so maybe there’s still hope for LRBAR.

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:41 AM, sclarke said:

I have no problem with teams who have 1 or maybe 2 foreigners. But when you have a team of Aussies calling themselves American, a team of Kiwis calling themselves Japanese, and a team of internationals calling themselves Swedes, thats when it makes a mockery of sport. Outteridge, Jensen and Parkinson are Aussies, Brittle and Percy are British and Christian Kamp is a Dane. No Swedes on the Swedish boat. Japan, Barker, Lomas, McFarlane and Saward are Kiwis, Draper is a Brit, and they had one Japanese grinder.

I’d agree completely in most events. However, the AC was always meant to be which club’s country could field the fastest boat. I’d bitch far more about the international design/build issue. 

The cup lost its way years ago, and NZ is doing nothing to restore that. The nationality rule is purely for tv appeal and perceived gains. 

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:41 AM, sclarke said:

I have no problem with teams who have 1 or maybe 2 foreigners. But when you have a team of Aussies calling themselves American, a team of Kiwis calling themselves Japanese, and a team of internationals calling themselves Swedes, thats when it makes a mockery of sport. Outteridge, Jensen and Parkinson are Aussies, Brittle and Percy are British and Christian Kamp is a Dane. No Swedes on the Swedish boat. Japan, Barker, Lomas, McFarlane and Saward are Kiwis, Draper is a Brit, and they had one Japanese grinder.

I’d agree completely in most events. However, the AC was always meant to be which club’s country could field the fastest boat. I’d bitch far more about the international design/build issue. 

The cup lost its way years ago, and NZ is doing nothing to restore that. The nationality rule is purely for tv appeal and perceived gains. 

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If the nation name wasn't in the team name, or at least if a team wasn't designated as representing a nation,  interest from the general public would wane dramatically. There'd be as many Kiwis supporting "the Emirates team" as there were Aussies supporting "the Oracle team" last time.

The first question from anyone tuning in for the first time is always "which one is ours?"

Much easier if the boat represents a nation, rather than "There are 3 of ours on that boat, 4 on that one and none on the others. Which one do you think?"

The toughest part would be working out whether to put the boat with most Poms or most Kiwis last…:P

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20 minutes ago, RobG said:

If the nation name wasn't in the team name, or at least if a team wasn't designated as representing a nation,  interest from the general public would wane dramatically.

That does not stack up. Adding the national name to a team is a very new thing and even then,  1/3rd of the teams last time around did not have it in their name. Arguably, modern times, there has been more interest in editions when teams did not have that nationality association. I don't think that is why the editions were more popular, but this crazy focus on nationality is a smoke screen and doesn't fix the underlying reasons why people do not watch or follow the AC.

There is a strong argument to say that at the time that most people followed the racing, admittedly mainly through newspaper reports, the vast majority of the crew on the NYYC boats weren't American. Even one of the leading US skippers was Scottish and only became US citizen after he first sailed in the AC.

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2 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

That does not stack up. Adding the national name to a team is a very new thing and even then,  1/3rd of the teams last time around did not have it in their name. Arguably, modern times, there has been more interest in editions when teams did not have that nationality association. I don't think that is why the editions were more popular, but this crazy focus on nationality is a smoke screen and doesn't fix the underlying reasons why people do not watch or follow the AC.

There is a strong argument to say that at the time that most people followed the racing, admittedly mainly through newspaper reports, the vast majority of the crew on the NYYC boats weren't American. Even one of the leading US skippers was Scottish and only became US citizen after he first sailed in the AC.

The Cup has evolved, as all things do. Without Nationality, the Cup would fade into mediocrity. It would become just another owner/ driver regatta much like the 52 Super Series, or the RC44 circuit which cater mainly to the sailing audience alone.The Cup is commercially driven because it must be. It must have a large global audience to remain "The pinnacle of sailing". This means it must be easily understandable and attractive to a very diverse audience, both the sailing, and non-sailing audience, male/ female, young and old. That can only happen if Nationality is involved. There has to be a reason for those diverse audiences to want to watch, a reason for them to be invested in the racing and watching some rich guys sail a boat with all his rich friends does not provide that reason. The old model doesn't, and won't work anymore. Times have changed, and the Cup must as well.

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59 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The Cup has evolved, as all things do. Without Nationality, the Cup would fade into mediocrity. It would become just another owner/ driver regatta much like the 52 Super Series, or the RC44 circuit which cater mainly to the sailing audience alone.The Cup is commercially driven because it must be. It must have a large global audience to remain "The pinnacle of sailing". This means it must be easily understandable and attractive to a very diverse audience, both the sailing, and non-sailing audience, male/ female, young and old. That can only happen if Nationality is involved. There has to be a reason for those diverse audiences to want to watch, a reason for them to be invested in the racing and watching some rich guys sail a boat with all his rich friends does not provide that reason. The old model doesn't, and won't work anymore. Times have changed, and the Cup must as well.

These are all just opinions. Whether they are true or not will take some time to determine and it could go either way.

The Admiral's Cup has faded from being the premier ocean racing event to nothing (can anyone name the current holders without looking it up on google?). The TP52s are still going strong with mainly private teams.

This AC has gone back to stronger nationality rules, but whether it helps isn't clear at this stage. The number of challengers might even go down from the previous cup.

Nationality rules are certainly popular in New Zealand - that much is clear - not much else though.

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6 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

That does not stack up. Adding the national name to a team is a very new thing and even then,  1/3rd of the teams last time around did not have it in their name. Arguably, modern times, there has been more interest in editions when teams did not have that nationality association. I don't think that is why the editions were more popular, but this crazy focus on nationality is a smoke screen and doesn't fix the underlying reasons why people do not watch or follow the AC.

Teams weren't even a thing until there was a defender series in 1970. They've always had a nation association even if it wasn't in the name, putting it up front makes things simpler for neophytes. In 1995 there was Team New Zealand, One Australia, Spanish Challenge, France America 95 and Nippon Challenge. The very first AC winner was the sloop America.

The name is the prerogative of the entities that make up the challenge I suppose, you'll have to ask Larry Ellison why he included "USA" in his team's name and Franck Cammas why he included "France" in his, I don't think they were sponsored by their national governments (but really have no idea about that).

Dunno why LRBAR didn't go with "Tata BAR".

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1 hour ago, RobG said:

Dunno why LRBAR didn't go with "Tata BAR".

Brand. When people want to search they "Google it". I've never heard of anyone "Alphabeting it" or saying "Alphabet is your friend".

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17 hours ago, sclarke said:

The Cup has evolved, as all things do. Without Nationality, the Cup would fade into mediocrity. It would become just another owner/ driver regatta much like the 52 Super Series, or the RC44 circuit which cater mainly to the sailing audience alone.The Cup is commercially driven because it must be. It must have a large global audience to remain "The pinnacle of sailing". This means it must be easily understandable and attractive to a very diverse audience, both the sailing, and non-sailing audience, male/ female, young and old. That can only happen if Nationality is involved. There has to be a reason for those diverse audiences to want to watch, a reason for them to be invested in the racing and watching some rich guys sail a boat with all his rich friends does not provide that reason. The old model doesn't, and won't work anymore. Times have changed, and the Cup must as well.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would challenge you to provide any evidence for this. Was there a statistically significant increase in people in the USA who followed ORTUSA last time, compared with the time before? Did Team France get more followers than Artemis or BAR?

Some people believe "nationality" will increase interest in the AC. This has yet to be proven. Some consider that nationality rules make it impossible for many countries to field a competitive AC team and that it is no surprise that the initiative comes from NZ, the country that can most easily put together a world class AC crew. It certainly cuts down the competition, even if that might not have been the intent.

You are correct that times change and the AC must as well. Today, the AC is a competition between professional, commercial race teams. None of those teams are THE national team. I can see little evidence that in that sort of environment, you need to enforce a team member nationality clause because people get confused about which country the team is from. Do Italians get confused about Ferrari, because their drivers are German and Finnish. Do people not realise that Mercedes is a German team, because it has a British and a Finnish driver. Are people confused about which country Real Madrid comes from, because their leading players and coaching staff aren't Spanish? Or Manchester United? 

People do not watch sport just because of nationality and perceived international competition. They watch to be entertained, and unless you can do that, you will not get the audiences the AC aspires to. Just like it is your opinion that nationality is a key issue in drawing in significantly more viewers, it is mine that it will not in many key markets, such as the USA and UK. I can see how NZers would get that belief, because of what has happened in NZ and their feverish following of TNZ, but I do not believe every country behaves the same way. 

You state your beliefs as facts. I accept you have every right to your beliefs, but it will take a long time until we know if your beliefs make a difference to the following of the AC.

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32 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

People do not watch sport just because of nationality and perceived international competition. They watch to be entertained, and unless you can do that, you will not get the audiences the AC aspires to. Just like it is your opinion that nationality is a key issue in drawing in significantly more viewers, it is mine that it will not in many key markets, such as the USA and UK. I can see how NZers would get that belief, because of what has happened in NZ and their feverish following of TNZ, but I do not believe every country behaves the same way. 

Agreed.

GD, responsible for sponsorship, has a head-on when pressing the nationality card, always pressing lines about Kiwi ingenuity despite their designers being mostly foreigners, mostly because he sees that patriotism as key to $’s - especially from the Govt by making it about Kiwis and by fostering popular support through those traveling Cup events around the country.

It seems to me that Artemis had more American fans in the past two AC’s, on this board anyway, than what Larry’s team had. And really, what’s wrong with that? It’s a boat race, not a freakin’ death-Match war about ‘us against the world’  :)

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2 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

Agreed.

GD, responsible for sponsorship, has a head-on when pressing the nationality card, always pressing lines about Kiwi ingenuity despite their designers being mostly foreigners, mostly because he sees that patriotism as key to $’s - especially from the Govt by making it about Kiwis and by fostering popular support through those traveling Cup events around the country.

It seems to me that Artemis had more American fans in the past two AC’s, on this board anyway, than what Larry’s team had. And really, what’s wrong with that? It’s a boat race, not a freakin’ death-Match war about ‘us against the world’  :)

"Its not a matter of life or death, its much more important than that"

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5 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

Agreed.

GD, responsible for sponsorship, has a head-on when pressing the nationality card, always pressing lines about Kiwi ingenuity despite their designers being mostly foreigners, mostly because he sees that patriotism as key to $’s - especially from the Govt by making it about Kiwis and by fostering popular support through those traveling Cup events around the country.

It seems to me that Artemis had more American fans in the past two AC’s, on this board anyway, than what Larry’s team had. And really, what’s wrong with that? It’s a boat race, not a freakin’ death-Match war about ‘us against the world’  :)

Agree, the nationality argument only holds water in NZL, last 2 cycles my father in law has been all about Artemis, I was pulling for Softbank myself in the last round. Going further back, in 92 I made a 10$ bet with a guy I was working with that A3 would knock off DC in the defender finals, then I turned around & threw down 20 on Il Moro, bad bet it turned out, hard to beat that "cuban fiber"!

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Just now, animeproblem said:

Agree, the nationality argument only holds water in NZL, last 2 cycles my father in law has been all about Artemis, I was pulling for Softbank myself in the last round. Going further back, in 92 I made a 10$ bet with a guy I was working with that A3 would knock off DC in the defender finals, then I turned around & threw down 20 on Il Moro, bad bet it turned out, hard to beat that "cuban fiber"!

that's interesting

what was it that made your dad like Artemis and you Softbank?

i got a feeling that Softbank didn't have many supporters outside of japan, just because people would already be going for a team from ac34 or they would be going for their country's team or where most of their nationality is represented.

i went for Artemis just because of the Aussy presence in the team and because their boat looked sick hahaha

also because i used to sail Luke Parkinsons old boat too hahaha

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My interest in SBTJ, that's easy, I'm a nihonophile if you can't tell from my handle & "sqiddie" my avatar, Jack, my father in law on the other hand started pulling for Artemis after he met my nephew's fiance who is Swedish & generally the entire family thinks she is the cat's meow (me included).

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44 minutes ago, animeproblem said:

My interest in SBTJ, that's easy, I'm a nihonophile if you can't tell from my handle & "sqiddie" my avatar, Jack, my father in law on the other hand started pulling for Artemis after he met my nephew's fiance who is Swedish & generally the entire family thinks she is the cat's meow (me included).

Odd really ... @inebriated SBTJ had less supporters in Japan than they probably had in NZ - @animeproblem because there was minimal Japanese in the team at all so even for a Japanophile such as yourself (and me a recovering one) there was little to attract us... had it been a team of hungry locals I would have been rooting for them more - as it stood I just wanted Barker and Draper to be able to get some action...

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And in fact you are on to something there, my support would have been stronger if there had been more actual Japanese presence on the team, but otaku take what we can get, now on the subject of performance, well I did a fair amount of screaming at the tube for not covering & blowing the leads they had (oil?). And I would be remiss if I did not mention how dreadful the coverage was in the states, somehow everytime there was a lead change the telly was in fucking commercial!

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Teams are free to choose crew members from their home country if they think there is a commercial benefit.

We saw that in AC35 with LRBAR having a mostly British crew.

Or ETNZ could get rid of their Aussie skipper for AC36 and replace him with a Kiwi if they think it will help getting sponsorship money (from companies like Emirates, Toyota and Nespresso).

But what does it matter what the other teams do? Why was it a problem for the other teams that Artemis had an Australian helmsman in AC 35? It doesn't seem to make any difference to the other teams.

I say let the teams decide for themselves and leave it out of the rules. That way nobody loses, but some teams benefit and more sailors can compete.

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On 2018-01-23 at 6:34 PM, Stingray~~ said:

The NYYC will likely bring significant legal firepower

No doubt you're right.

What a bunch of wankers.

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On 2018-01-31 at 1:02 AM, sclarke said:

The Cup has evolved, as all things do. Without Nationality, the Cup would fade into mediocrity. It would become just another owner/ driver regatta much like the 52 Super Series, or the RC44 circuit which cater mainly to the sailing audience alone.The Cup is commercially driven because it must be. It must have a large global audience to remain "The pinnacle of sailing". This means it must be easily understandable and attractive to a very diverse audience, both the sailing, and non-sailing audience, male/ female, young and old.

Oh, bullshit.

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while it has become apparent that the AC has become a competition between corporations, rather than yacht clubs, I find it hard to root for a corporation.   Even though I did not like how Oracle went about their business, as an American, I found myself hoping they'd do well because of the flag on the wing.  Similarly, since the American skippered Vestas took themselves out of the Volvo, I find that I've lost interest in the event.  So, apparently, nationality matters to some of us....in spite of the foibles of the teams themselves.

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What do you want me to say? People just spout off nonsense about the very survival of the America’s Cup hinging upon it developing a mass audience of NASCAR fans, and expect everyone to accept that as gospel truth. At best, it is a subjective opinion for which there is little if any evidence.

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3 hours ago, Svanen said:

What do you want me to say? People just spout off nonsense about the very survival of the America’s Cup hinging upon it developing a mass audience of NASCAR fans, and expect everyone to accept that as gospel truth. At best, it is a subjective opinion for which there is little if any evidence.

EVERYTHING on here is subjective opinion! Incase you didn't notice, this is Sailing Anarchy. Subjective opinion is the name of the game!

 

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On 2/3/2018 at 1:50 AM, Svanen said:

No doubt you're right.

What a bunch of wankers.

Don't worry about it. ETNZ and their legal advisers know their way around 60 Centre Street in NY, and the Deed of Gift. It won't be their first rodeo if they have to go there.

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FareVela reports Alinghi still fence sitting, pending the issue of the AC75 Rule. Meanwhile, a full program for 2018 with the D35 Trophy, Extreme Sailing Series and GC 32 Championship

 

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On 24/01/2018 at 9:11 PM, rh2600 said:

I think some one might need to introduce him to that elusive and hardly-known nobody by the name of Russell Coutts (and Brad Butterworth et al) and the litany of mercenaries that occupy AC like any professional sport.

Bit bizarre really, but I think perhaps we are seeing the return of A4E as an Aussie (?) themed sock after a sabbatical of sorts...

Don't worry, you'll know for sure when he storms out never to return a few times.

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On 25/01/2018 at 12:22 PM, Team_GBR said:

Funny how sensitive the fanboys have. Maybe British sarcasm is too much for some.

I find the debate about loyalty and chasing money interesting. Despite listing a number of names, I have not yet seen any that left their team for another to improve their pay. For instance, Coutts and Barker both left TNZ because they couldn't agree on their future roles in the team. That they later got paid much more on joining a new team doesn't mean they left for money.

 

Thats probably true, but they are still arseholes.

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This is unsubstantiated, however, a friend in the the VOR Scallywag camp insists that Seng Huang Lee is working towards an AC entry in 2024/AC37. They are paying close attention to the developing design rule for AC36 and ramping up their campaign plans for the 100 footer.

At least he has the dosh.

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6 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

This is unsubstantiated, however, a friend in the the VOR Scallywag camp insists that Seng Huang Lee is working towards an AC entry in 2024/AC37. They are paying close attention to the developing design rule for AC36 and ramping up their campaign plans for the 100 footer.

At least he has the dosh.

A quick-cursory google of that guy

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/sailing/new-scallywag-owner-seng-huang-lee-wants-to-build-on-syd-fischer-legacy-20161214-gtb2dq.html

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15 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Would be fantastic to see them enter. Serious money involved. Wasn't aware he was raised and educated in Sydney so great stuff to know. 

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11 hours ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

This is unsubstantiated, however, a friend in the the VOR Scallywag camp insists that Seng Huang Lee is working towards an AC entry in 2024/AC37. They are paying close attention to the developing design rule for AC36 and ramping up their campaign plans for the 100 footer.

At least he has the dosh.

Yeah, with Witty as AC campaign manager. Would be too much fun to stand. :lol::lol::lol: That would be something to look forward to. 

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1 hour ago, nav said:

But is he gracious enough!?  :o

Certainly not, haha. Even Dalts could learn the one or other thing about outspokenness from Witty. Imagine the forum reactions! Gold!

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Chinese team may be entering the America's Cup

Sailors working with the Chinese Volvo Ocean Race team have confirmed to Newshub Team China is in talks to enter the America's Cup.

Officials there have turned to a former Team New Zealand winning sailor to help expand their sailing ambitions, and he says we can expect to learn more in the next few months.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/03/chinese-team-may-be-entering-the-america-s-cup.html

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Just now, rh2600 said:

It's all Grant's fault! What an arsehole! You know... Gagging leadership and scuttling the regatta agreed!

no??

where the fuck did you get that from hahahaha

the article literally didn't say anything about him

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8 minutes ago, inebriated said:

no??

where the fuck did you get that from hahahaha

the article literally didn't say anything about him

You truly are a special unit aren't you mate ;-)

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Just now, rh2600 said:

You truly are a special unit aren't you mate ;-)

ill believe you when you quote the article saying that shit

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2 hours ago, NZL4EVER said:

It amazes me how much a lot of people bag Dalton, and call him this and that, he has still managed to attract new, and maintain existing partnerships and sponsorship deals year after year, representing a small country in the South Pacific and has also managed to keep the team not only in existence, but also consistently highly competitive in the face of huge local and global financial pressure. Where a country the size of Australia which has a lot of the worlds best sailors at the moment and multiple multi millionaire sailing enthusiasts still can't manage to raise enough funds to enter a competitive team in the Americas Cup. They can blame it on costs all they like, but we all know, even if he AC was sailed in Opti's, or P-class boats, Australia still wouldn't enter because it would be "too expensive" oh well,  no big loss. who needs the Aussies anyway. 

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

It amazes me how much a lot of people bag Dalton, and call him this and that, he has still managed to attract new, and maintain existing partnerships and sponsorship deals year after year, representing a small country in the South Pacific and has also managed to keep the team not only in existence, but also consistently highly competitive in the face of huge local and global financial pressure. Where a country the size of Australia which has a lot of the worlds best sailors at the moment and multiple multi millionaire sailing enthusiasts still can't manage to raise enough funds to enter a competitive team in the Americas Cup. They can blame it on costs all they like, but we all know, even if he AC was sailed in Opti's, or P-class boats, Australia still wouldn't enter because it would be "too expensive" oh well,  no big loss. who needs the Aussies anyway. 

image.png.456c88c1b7854de7962ff73108ae174b.png

"yeah, who needs aussies anyway"

holy shit you're ungrateful hahahaha

anyway, no one was even attacking dalton in the slightest in that article

chill out, all that was said is that i would be expensive to be competitive which i don't think anyone doubts

just because Slingsby may or may not have said that Dalton made it too expensive privately and to someone who posted it online doesn't mean everyone is ripping into him

 

image.png

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10 hours ago, inebriated said:

 

image.png.456c88c1b7854de7962ff73108ae174b.png

"yeah, who needs aussies anyway"

holy shit you're ungrateful hahahaha

anyway, no one was even attacking dalton in the slightest in that article

chill out, all that was said is that i would be expensive to be competitive which i don't think anyone doubts

just because Slingsby may or may not have said that Dalton made it too expensive privately and to someone who posted it online doesn't mean everyone is ripping into him

 

image.png

Are you kidding? Go back through the threads and you'll find many people "ripping him" and for no good reason actually, other than he didn't toe the company line. If those Aussie sailors go to other teams to compete, good for them. But to sit there and say "We can't afford it" when there is 5 supermaxi programs (or at least 4) running in Australia at any one time is slightly contrasting. The only reason Australia will not field a team is NOT because of cost. Its simply because they don't want to, because the interest in the Americas Cup in Australia is non existent. Instead of publicly complaining about costs being the reason they can't compete, just come out and say "Australia will not enter a team in the Americas Cup because we're not interested". 

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The reason Aussie does not field a team is because they are just a State of USA.  Who already has a team !!

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26 minutes ago, Kiwing said:

The reason Aussie does not field a team is because they are just a State of USA.  Who already has a team !!

Or because an island state of Australia just won it

 

but I agree with you in part sclarke for sure, I think if there was a massive interest in the cup, then we could have put together a challenge, although we also could have put one together ifthe Budget had been lower. I don’t think that there is enough dedication to put together the money required, although I don’t really think that the cost for this AC will be unreasonable. 

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