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16 hours ago, sclarke said:

Do we really believe that? I mean they've only just finished building the new "Sled" TP52, the new class rule gets announced in a couple of weeks, so no doubt teams will be well into R&D by now and possibly building new boats soon. Larry is out of AC35, ETNZ has their AC50 safely under wraps ready to be displayed whenever the plan for bases is confirmed, Dean Barker has gone to Bella Mente Quantum Racing, Lomas and Trae are are off sailing in the 52 Super Series on Sled, Jimmy is at Luna Rossa, Pete and Blair have a schedule which is packed enough as it is with the Volvo, a possible Olympic campaign for Tokyo in 2 years time, and the Americas Cup defence, the Aussies aren't interested, or can't afford an AC campaign, Groupama is no longer interested in sponsorship, BAR has committed to the 52 Super Series with Gladiator, as well as their cup campaign, most of the guys who sail in the 52 Super Series also compete on the RC44 circuit as well, Russell is commodore of his own yacht club and wants a change from anything and everything Americas Cup, who the hell is left? And who can afford to pay for upgrades to a boat which is now obsolete to sail in a series that hasn't even been announced? 

maybe alinghi and artemis?

although i wouldn't rule artemis out of going for more AC action

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On 6/27/2017 at 3:26 AM, NZL4EVER said:

Who's in AC36?

Rumors at this stage

Luna Rossa yes

Dennis Conner

Another USA team NYYC

Oracle

Alinghi

Australia

Artemis

Team Ben Anslie yes

Team France

Japan

Two New Zealand defenders RNZYS, Royal Port Nicholson Yacht Club

I know I've been the pessimist here from the start, but I don't thing "6 teams negotiating" leads to anything near 6 teams participating. I'm sticking with my prediction of 4.

Look at where this list started (with markups above) ... and I think we should cross off Alinghi and Artemis even if they have yet to confirm that they are out. 

The six are, probably: LR, NYYC, BAR, 2nd Italian, Chinese, someone else

 

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17 hours ago, 2Newts said:

I know I've been the pessimist here from the start, but I don't thing "6 teams negotiating" leads to anything near 6 teams participating. I'm sticking with my prediction of 4.

Look at where this list started (with markups above) ... and I think we should cross off Alinghi and Artemis even if they have yet to confirm that they are out. 

The six are, probably: LR, NYYC, BAR, 2nd Italian, Chinese, someone else

 

why cross off artemis?

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On 3/17/2018 at 7:07 AM, inebriated said:

why cross off artemis?

I didn't. I suggested that we probably could for the same reason that we could probably cross off Alinghi -- neither of them is officially out, but neither of them is official in either. And in my personal opinion, I don't think they will go in. They are up to something, that is for sure, but in my opinion it won't be AC36. I also think my wife won't notice if I buy some new parts for my boat this spring but I could well be wrong on that as well. 

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4 hours ago, Xlot said:

Nah

I'm inclined to agree.  A hopeful partisan journo perhaps.  Still:  "the Minister of Sports Laura Flessel  spent ........ a lot of time talking with the sailors Franck Cammas and Michel Desjoyaux about the Groupama Team France and her intention of being able to distinguish herself on the next America's Cup, scheduled for Auckland in 2021."

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On 30/03/2018 at 3:03 PM, Stingray~ said:

To the minister "we are in the building that was used for the prevous ACs, and....for a projet that, I hope, will be take place, as we have the two protagonists here (Cammas and Desjoyaux).

Basically, asking for money to the minister I guess. Nothing new.

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On 4/1/2018 at 6:20 AM, Tornado-Cat said:

To the minister "we are in the building that was used for the prevous ACs, and....for a projet that, I hope, will be take place, as we have the two protagonists here (Cammas and Desjoyaux).

Basically, asking for money to the minister I guess. Nothing new.

I saw the article; however, I thought Groupama announced earlier this year they were no longer going to be sponsoring a boat. 

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7 hours ago, despacio avenue said:

I saw the article; however, I thought Groupama announced earlier this year they were no longer going to be sponsoring a boat. 

Right, which means the team is running, more than ever, to find new sponsors.

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50 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Right, which means the team is running, more than ever, to find new sponsors.

You missed my point: how can the "team" (that is looking to find new sponsors) be "Groupama," if ""Groupama is no longer sponsoring a boat/team?  I know Cammas and Desjououx were with Groupama in the last edition of the AC.

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Right, which means the team is running, more than ever, to find new sponsors.

In the interview they spoke of Cammas and Desjoyaux, they did not mention Groupama.

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1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Sending out a question to @MR.CLEAN asking about any news on the slim possibility of a 2nd US team?

WetHog  :ph34r:

Yep, second team called Stormy 'n A D-Cup, sponsored by Trump.

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9 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Good find. And makes sense. That whole issue about bases took too long and probably took too much of GD's time. 

At this point I suspect his biggest hurdle in talking with potential competitors is cost and cost-containment. I suspect anyone on the fence about competing is looking at (1) can we raise the amount estimated to be needed and (2) how screwed are we if/when the costs go up by $10mm, $20mm, etc. Because if the total estimated cost to compete is, let's just say, $130mm, then a ten million dollar overrun is only a 7.7% increase. Small percentages make for big dollars in this realm. 

Tough job. GD has a lot on his plate. 

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Any team who sits out AC36 may find the developmental advantage by whichever team (Defender of Challengers) prevails in AC36 too much to overhaul, and a disincentive to challenge. 

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TE hinted at a possible 2nd USA team talked about on his webcast today.  Came here to see what it was about. Guess no one watched it.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Watched it for that reason among others but details were scarce.  Sounds pretty definite.  TFE said he spent an hour on the phone with a lead person this morning confirming details.  The person apparently gave TFE permission to use his name but TFE did not disclose and said to contact him directly for details.  Made the point that it was an all American team, including all designers and crew.  Did not mention yacht club but confirmed that the new team is different from the one TFE had been mentioning before, a West Coast syndicate that pulled back once the AC75 design was made public.  Will be interesting to see who it really is.  My guess is West Coast tech money (Siebel?) with North backing, no idea on boat designer.  TFE made the odd comment that yacht clubs should be reaching out to him if they wanted to be the partner club for the team, kind of surprised that hasn't already happened.  I suppose could also be Don Wilson and Chicago YC given past interest in hosting the Bermuda cup.

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From today's Scuttlebutt interview with Taylor Canfield:

Craig Lewick - "I’m hearing rumors that your aspirations to get involved in the America’s Cup might be coming sooner than later."

Taylor Canfield - "There’s nothing to share at the moment but I’m continuing to look at options to join a syndicate. Hopefully there’ll be some good news to share in the near future."

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On 4/24/2018 at 10:36 PM, inebriated said:

imagine a tesla challenge

It’d be a brilliant design, but arrive six months after the Cup. 

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18 minutes ago, Monkey said:

It’d be a brilliant design, but arrive six months after the Cup. 

Hahaha!!:D Classic!

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On 4/24/2018 at 9:10 PM, Annapolis 105er said:

Watched it for that reason among others but details were scarce.  Sounds pretty definite.  TFE said he spent an hour on the phone with a lead person this morning confirming details.  The person apparently gave TFE permission to use his name but TFE did not disclose and said to contact him directly for details.  Made the point that it was an all American team, including all designers and crew.  Did not mention yacht club but confirmed that the new team is different from the one TFE had been mentioning before, a West Coast syndicate that pulled back once the AC75 design was made public.  Will be interesting to see who it really is.  My guess is West Coast tech money (Siebel?) with North backing, no idea on boat designer.  TFE made the odd comment that yacht clubs should be reaching out to him if they wanted to be the partner club for the team, kind of surprised that hasn't already happened.  I suppose could also be Don Wilson and Chicago YC given past interest in hosting the Bermuda cup.

Initial money behind this comes from the owner of Proteus, the Maxi 72. But they are way late to the party.

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24 minutes ago, nav said:

^ & the first $16,000 is already pledged!

If Bruce Ayres and his family (hotels, real estate, Newport Beach CA) are also involved then they could be off to a healthy start.

Mike Buckley is cool. Fingers crossed.

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11 hours ago, sunseeker said:

Initial money behind this comes from the owner of Proteus, the Maxi 72. But they are way late to the party.

Fun symbolism, from http://robbreport.com/motors/marine/hard-core-maxi72-yacht-racing-regatta-maxi72-2725724-eg17-2725724/

As the crews awaited the firing of the starting gun, Bella Mente circled around the bow of Proteus, which was skippered by its owner, George Sakellaris (the chairman of Ameresco, an energy-services company headquartered in Massachusetts).

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The all American spin is interesting - a couple of Kiwis in the other team, obviously far to early to say who'll be on the Q-boat, but they push that as a point of difference anyway......

So will they really go all the way 'Nationalistic' then? Sponsors, designers, builders &&&?

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On 4/28/2018 at 9:51 AM, Stingray~ said:

If Bruce Ayres and his family (hotels, real estate, Newport Beach CA) are also involved then they could be off to a healthy start.

Mike Buckley is cool. Fingers crossed.

Do you really think Ayres dad is going to let him spend his allowance that way? 

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Some recent news items are bringing the fleet into focus. So:

  1. ENTZ - defender
  2. LR - COR
  3. BAR - in with new funding at about $150mm
  4. NYYC - in with disclosed funding of about $40mm
  5. (Adelasia di Torres - sure seem to be in but no news of having actually filed paperwork)
  6. (USA21 - confirmed interest in search of funding and a sponsor yacht club)
  • China: Per David Witt's interview posted by @southerncross, Scallywag is out. No word that I am aware of from Dongfeng. No other team has made noise afaik.
  • Australia: out
  • Europe outside of Italy&UK: no entries, but still a few suspects who have not specifically said they are out
  • Rest of World: nothing I'm aware of

That may be the list right there. I would not personally put money on USA21 pulling it together for 2021. Maybe the next. 

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Second US challenge for America's Cup gathers pace as talk of three other teams emerges - Stuff NZ

So there is a possible two more in the running?

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34 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:


Second US challenge for America's Cup gathers pace as talk of three other teams emerges - Stuff NZ

So there is a possible two more in the running?

Not much to see here.  Move on please!

Four-day old long recitation of what we know about USA-21.

That,  plus a one-liner alluding to "speculation of three other challengers."

Hardly sufficient to justify the headline!

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Wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that PB had assured everyone that there would be a 2nd Italian team competing.......and yes he will provide a package, if that is what it takes to get the team to Auckland.

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35 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

There's no way the EU13M boat budget includes development costs - are they being gifted/buying a design package?

Adelasia AC budget.png

Well, it is cool to see the break down by functional area, isn't it?

But even the total 62 million euro is low compared to the forecast cost of being competitive. At today's rate, that's about $73 million USD, which is about half of the number being tossed around for a competitive team. 

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A few interesting points in this article.

1) Spithill was prepared to take a pay-cut, and even said he'd work for free.

2) No love lost between Patrizio Bertelli and Russell Coutts.

3) Alinghi apparently still showing interest.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/104096537/jimmy-spithill-takes-big-pay-cut-to-join-italys-luna-rossa-for-2021-americas-cup

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T52 is a waste of time and money. Better off putting 2.9mil EUR into two super foiler teams which, according to GA (and he should know) are closest to the new boats in terms of common issues - rig plan, control issues etc. Whole thing is way underfunded anyway.

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On 5/18/2018 at 2:25 PM, dogwatch said:

Strictly there is no BAR. Now Ineos UK "Fracking r us".

BARF is reanimated!

Ben Ainslie Racing/Fracking

 

 

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On 5/15/2018 at 11:11 AM, Sailimggoddess said:

Do you really think Ayres dad is going to let him spend his allowance that way? 

damn that is cold

Buck is gonna win brucie his first Worlds this year...that's gotta be worth something!

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22 minutes ago, Robsi524 said:

A worthy find!

Hard to believe these two Norwegian hopefuls will build a boat and a team, much less make it to Auckland.  Still, they have been beavering away for over a year and are clearly making progress.

A good chunk of this long story is background but here's the Google translate of the relevant stuff with some minor edits.

"With the latest in Norwegian maritime research and technology, the goal is for Norway to build the world's fastest sailboat - and participate in the America's Cup in 2021.

 "Christian Løken (40) and Petter Mørland Pedersen (34) want to win the America's Cup with Norwegian technology and Norwegian heads, says Christian Løken.

"For more than a year, the two experienced competition sailors have worked on the project, which will end up with the world's fastest sailboat. A 72 foot long submarine boat with foils that make the hull lift over the water surface and can reach speeds of more than 50 knots. Both together and individually, Løken and Pedersen have won medals NM, EM, World Cup and a fourth place in the Olympics in various national championships for a number of years.

"Research centers

"Among other things, they have gained one of the foremost research communities in maritime activities in the world, NTNU in Trondheim.

"- This is Sailing Formula 1 and an opportunity to test the very best of technology. For us, there is a particular development of the foils we are concerned with, says Head of Department Sverre Steen at the Institute of Marine Technology at NTNU.

"He says that they already have a development course for electrified hydrofoil boats for passenger transport.

"New hull types with foil lifting the craft are about to revolutionize the most of water sports, including commercial shipping. Ferries and ships get completely different speeds. Fuel costs and pollution are cut radically when the hull rises and water resistance becomes smaller. Lower energy requirements in shipping, also provide completely different possibilities for battery operation.

"Christian Løken and Petter Mørland Pedersen are convinced that Norwegian maritime technology is so far ahead that it is realistic to build the best boat just in Norway.

"'We are giving full gas,' said Pedersen, who has taken leave from the job as subsea sales manager in Aker Solution.

"'The actual sailing is only a small part of the project and it is not even certain that we will finally be in the boat when the initial competitions start in the autumn of 2019. Our goal is that this will be a showcase for the latest in Norwegian technology, research and maritime industries,' says Pedersen to Dagens Næringsliv."

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It’d be awesome to see more Yacht clubs step up, but until they start writing checks, they have about as much credibility as that pretend challenge from SA that to this day, no one will say where the money went. 

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Good luck to them and one thing Norway is not short of is kroner.

https://www.backpackerguide.nz/7-whales-and-dolphins-in-auckland/ "More than 22 species of whales and dolphins can be seen in Auckland’s Hauraki Gulf," My recommendation to the whales is to stay well away from those Norwegians.

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Good luck to them and one thing Norway is not short of is kroner.

https://www.backpackerguide.nz/7-whales-and-dolphins-in-auckland/ "More than 22 species of whales and dolphins can be seen in Auckland’s Hauraki Gulf," My recommendation to the whales is to stay well away from those Norwegians.

 

...we have whales here too - and we eat a few of them - really good steaks.... 

 

But if they ask me for advice (they probably wont) - spend 100million in developing foils that has nothing to do with AC-rules - and the rest 300million to promote a special race on the coast of Norway... 

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"Come on, now the Cup is a game for architects and engineers, with sailors in the background. And with the risk of investing a huge sum in a very high boat.

"One could see the previous Cup had a direction to follow. You could spend the same amount to develop the project, but with less risk of making a mistake. Take the British and Ben Ainslie in the last Cup: the best sailor in the world, but had a wrong boat. Game over". 

Bertarelli confirmed he would have returned to the America's Cup for the next regatta had the foiling catamarans been retained.

"Yes, I would have participated. Switzerland now also has sailors to do it without problems of nationality rules. Changing boats has lost at least two teams, one is Alinghi (the other, Sweden's Artemis Racing). They would have had six from the beginning. And it would have been easy to go up to eight."

WetHog  :ph34r:

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"Take the British and Ben Ainslie in the last Cup: the best sailor in the world, but had a wrong boat. Game over". 

And it would be easy to rebut this statement as well. 

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2 minutes ago, barfy said:

"Take the British and Ben Ainslie in the last Cup: the best sailor in the world, but had a wrong boat. Game over". 

And it would be easy to rebut this statement as well. 

yeah they had just like all the other competitors a AC50, out of the same mold design

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

"Come on, now the Cup is a game for architects and engineers, with sailors in the background. And with the risk of investing a huge sum in a very high boat.

"One could see the previous Cup had a direction to follow. You could spend the same amount to develop the project, but with less risk of making a mistake. Take the British and Ben Ainslie in the last Cup: the best sailor in the world, but had a wrong boat. Game over". 

Bertarelli confirmed he would have returned to the America's Cup for the next regatta had the foiling catamarans been retained.

"Yes, I would have participated. Switzerland now also has sailors to do it without problems of nationality rules. Changing boats has lost at least two teams, one is Alinghi (the other, Sweden's Artemis Racing). They would have had six from the beginning. And it would have been easy to go up to eight."

WetHog  :ph34r:

He truly is a classless revisionist fucktard isn't he... so glad to hear we won't have to host this pile of garbage wrapped in a Patek Philippe...

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While I'm not a fan of the new boat, I'm not sad that EB f#cks off, and I hope for good.
He brought so much misery over the Cup that I couldn't care less about his opinion. What an a##.

Shrug and move on...

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  ^ My heart is torn :( - this is the one opinion where Rennie and I definitely diverge

 

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18 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ My heart is torn :( - this is the one opinion where Rennie and I definitely diverge

 

No reason for a torn heart. we're friends, EB or not EB :wub:
Larry's an a## too. We'll see about GD after AC36.

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

No reason for a torn heart. we're friends, EB or not EB :wub:
Larry's an a## too. We'll see about GD after AC36.

That sums it up pretty well. They both did some really cool things, and some really shitty things during their AC runs. I don’t really want either back in the AC, but have no issues with them otherwise. 

I’m hoping for better with Grumpy, but we’ll just have to wait and see. No complaints so far other than a dopey boat. 

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

No reason for a torn heart. we're friends, EB or not EB :wub:
Larry's an a## too. We'll see about GD after AC36.

^^ You may hate them but whatever they did both Ernesto and Larry had a competitor forum where every team could vote.

 

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1 hour ago, Kiwing said:

@Tornado-Cat has Team NZ got a competitor forum going yet?

You don't need to go asking the same question on multiple threads ;-)

Competitor forum? You mean challengers? Totally up to LR how they want to engage/manage the other challengers... there is no London Agreement type forum...

Is that what you mean?

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4 hours ago, Kiwing said:

@Tornado-Cat has Team NZ got a competitor forum going yet?

Hi Kiwing, they don't and they won't. Competitors have no rights, only the CoR and the defender have rights, and they modify the protocol at will, any time, any way.

The explanation is " a strong CoR". We guess they negociated that, the question is HOW they got so "strong".

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3 hours ago, rh2600 said:

there is no London Agreement type forum...

 

How can you complain about the London agreement when both the AC and the London agreement where governed by competitors ? This is dictatorship whining about democracy.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

How can you complain about the London agreement when both the AC and the London agreement where governed by competitors ? This is dictatorship whining about democracy.

I'm not sure I follow... Are you asking how come I've complained about the London Agreement in the past?

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8 hours ago, Priscilla said:

Looks likely that only 3 challengers will rock up in 2021.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12061895

Disappointing news but not unexpected.  Suppose there is still a possibility this will change but lets be reality.  The absurd boat is the main reason for the small turn out.  If ETNZ wanted to foil they should of stayed with the AC50's.  If The Poodles demand for a mono hull was binding then they should of went a TP52 type mono hull.  AC50 route would of had Artemis and maybe Alinghi signed up in addition to what they have now.  TP52 type route could of produced more.  

Now what?  If the JC75 is used beyond this edition their probably will be less Challengers than now.  Would The Poodle challenge again based on all the money he is shelling out now and his age?  Probably not.  Do the Brits have a 3rd cycle in them financially?  Far from certain.  That leaves the NYYC.  They may feel obligated to go again simply to try and rescue the Cup from down under and salvage its reputation.  They may say "fuck it".  Interesting times ahead.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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36 minutes ago, WetHog said:

AC50 route would of had Artemis and maybe Alinghi signed up in addition to what they have now. 

Yes, EB is likely correct that with ‘the London 5’ plus Alinghi, they’d have started with 6 and 2 more would have been an easy reach, to get 8+ Challengers in Auckland.

anyway, here’s a decently-translated version of the EB interview:

http://www.lastampa.it/2018/05/31/esteri/bertarelli-the-americas-cup-has-become-a-game-for-engineers-i-wont-be-there-ox9vqmLnonCML45kxAsbPN/pagina.html

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

.  The absurd boat is the main reason for the small turn out. 

That's the bottom line for sure, and the costs to develop something that might not even work!

The chances of these monstrosities being fit for purpose are pretty slim, and one major issue is going to be turning the things.  Huge polar moments in roll ( good to a degree ) but particularly yaw with the couple of tons stuck out the sides are going to really restrict the general manouevering.

Got to get the thing turning first, but then also got to stop the rotation too.  Reckon they'll be found wanting in this aspect.

 

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4 hours ago, WetHog said:

  If ETNZ wanted to foil they should of stayed with the AC50's.  If The Poodles demand for a mono hull was binding then they should of went a TP52 type mono hull. 

I agree that they should have stayed with multi, but if they were binded by a mono they had to chose a foiling one, 

A classic mono would have made a joke of the Ac with a competitive "Super AC 50" event.

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^ Nope, it would have drawn a clearer line.

After all, the toy boat regatta ~is~ a different kind of competition, and has no meaning for the AC anyway... At least that's what we're told hereabouts.

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3 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

^ Nope, it would have drawn a clearer line.

 

For sure it would have been a clear line, I would have loved to "compare" two AC teams on slow monos in Aukland while the majors would have fun at 50 kts in Bermudas and elsewhere. :)

No GD could not afford that, but he takes the risk of a boat that may be amazing or.... impossible to sail.

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I agree that they should have stayed with multi, but if they were binded by a mono they had to chose a foiling one, 

A classic mono would have made a joke of the Ac with a competitive "Super AC 50" event.

I completely disagree. I think this edition would’ve been far better if they weren’t pretending to compete speedwise with the last gen 50’s. It could have been a perfectly cool boat at half the speed. 

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It seems we have the best of both worlds.

Races at half the speed in low wind conditions, and foiling boats for the higher wind conditions.

Personally I don't care if they are faster than the F50s or not as long as they foil some of the time.

How many races are 100% foiling in the moths?  All?  Or do some part races happen not foiling?

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4 hours ago, Kiwing said:

How many races are 100% foiling in the moths?  All?  Or do some part races happen not foiling?

Our local mothists, and we have quite a few, don't come out to play in non-foiling conditions.

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In a Moth world championship if there is not enough wind to foil, are races postponed?

I think it is the Defender/COR design that only half of the racing time will be foiling.

Like AC34 maybe they will be surprised?

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I don't think their SIs have a lower wind limit but I did safety boat at a Moth championship and IIRC we didn't start races in sub-foiling conditions. I guess if it were consistently light wind we might have done to get enough races but it didn't come to that. Our local Moth sailors don't sail if they can't foil so they don't seem interested in practising in light conditions.

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