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17 hours ago, rh2600 said:

We had a couple of those 'fillers' last time too

Well, of course. They’ve been around for years. I was just saying that any stragglers that join up are unlikely to be very competitive. 

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

The hip pocket is a mean for a defender to organize an event open to many teams, not grant special rights to a friend or try to keep the cup indefinitely.

At least Ernesto and Larry understood that.

You are mixed up my friend - smh

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The hip pocket is a mean for a defender to organize an event open to many teams, not grant special rights to a friend or try to keep the cup indefinitely.

At least Ernesto and Larry understood that.

You struggle with the basics TC. There is a 'forum' going on - if you payed a little attention instead of just making (up) trouble. Communication is flowing, there are no complaints from anyone serious, the DOG is being honoured....give up the whining and let Ben the Fracker and Casper speak for themselves if they have any issues

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Unlike last time they don't change the rules every ten minutes - vote on what exactly councilor?

And when was the last time you got a vote at a regatta?

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1 hour ago, nav said:

 there are no complaints from anyone serious,

^^ As for OR, do you expect any complain from a team not already accepeted ? How many serious ?

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6 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

^^ As for OR, do you expect any complain from a team not already accepeted ? How many serious ?

You're clearly struggling TC.

The hip pocket challenge is by now a time-honoured mechanism for a newly-minted defender to  anoint an experienced  bona fide challenger who can be expected to  fairly represent the interests of the entire challenger body. It's been that way for the last 40 years or so.

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9 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

The hip pocket challenge is by now a time-honoured mechanism for a newly-minted defender to  anoint an experienced  bona fide challenger who can be expected to  fairly represent the interests of the entire challenger body. 

How nice. Nothing at all then about anointing a challenger amenable to the defender? 

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17 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

You're clearly struggling TC.

The hip pocket challenge is by now a time-honoured mechanism for a newly-minted defender to  anoint an experienced  bona fide challenger

1) who can be expected to  fairly represent the interests of the entire challenger body.

2) It's been that way for the last 40 years or so.

1) :lol:

2) :lol:

 

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3 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

1) :lol:

2) :lol:

 

Never fear, for all is right with the AC again. 

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22 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

You're clearly struggling TC.

The hip pocket challenge is by now a time-honoured mechanism for a newly-minted defender to  anoint an experienced  bona fide challenger who can be expected to  fairly represent the interests of the entire challenger body. It's been that way for the last 40 years or so.

It's the only way to be compliant with the deed and not end up in a court room which is where pretty much every challenge that has not been a hip pocket challenge has ended up.  As long as they are  genuine challenge and not some artifact created for the sole purposes of the defender ala CNEV there probably isn't a better non contestable way of doing it.

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On 6/4/2018 at 5:15 PM, dogwatch said:

How nice. Nothing at all then about anointing a challenger amenable to the defender? 

ALL hip-pocket Challengers have been "amenable" to the Defenders - hence the term. Some too "amenable" than others which is why we've had DoG Challenges. Where have you been hiding for the last 30+ years?

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So hypothetically speaking...if this current Americas Cup cycle gets as many, or more entries than Bermuda (it already has more than San Francisco, and is on track to at least match the number of teams in Bermuda) does that mean that all the talk of these current campaigns being "Too expensive" and "New Zealand is too far away to attract sponsors" was/ is wrong? Or does it mean that all the talk of affordability last time round was indeed a "ruse" and LR and ETNZ were right the whole time? Certainly if this cycle were to gain more teams than both previous cycles it would validate the majority, if not every concern Dalton and Bertelli had regarding the direction and the behavior of Oracle Team USA.

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^ It's worth recalling that AC34 had 14 entries, of which 12 were accepted, and only 3 made it to the challenger rounds.

Maybe wait until 2021 before judging how the changes for AC36 have fared.

 

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15 minutes ago, Fireball said:

^ It's worth recalling that AC34 had 14 entries, of which 12 were accepted, and only 3 made it to the challenger rounds.

Maybe wait until 2021 before judging how the changes for AC36 have fared.

 

"It's worth recalling that AC34 had 14 entries" no its not, because its irrelevant. AC34 only had 4 entries, of which only 3 made it to the starting line. It would've been 2 if not for the relationship between ETNZ and Luna Rossa. Without Luna Rossa, there would've been no challenger series to speak of. It would've been training runs for ETNZ for a month before the AC started.

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

So hypothetically speaking...if this current Americas Cup cycle gets as many, or more entries than Bermuda (it already has more than San Francisco, and is on track to at least match the number of teams in Bermuda) does that mean that all the talk of these current campaigns being "Too expensive" and "New Zealand is too far away to attract sponsors" was/ is wrong? 

AC34 and AC35 had woefully low numbers of competitors. So no, don't expect applause for matching AC35. The point was to do better.

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11 minutes ago, sclarke said:

"It's worth recalling that AC34 had 14 entries" no its not, because its irrelevant. AC34 only had 4 entries, of which only 3 made it to the starting line. It would've been 2 if not for the relationship between ETNZ and Luna Rossa. Without Luna Rossa, there would've been no challenger series to speak of. It would've been training runs for ETNZ for a month before the AC started.

The list of entries for AC34 and when they withdrew is complicated. Have a look at these links if you're interested.

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/ac34-americas-cup-2013-official-challenger-entry-order.php

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-challenger-index-2013-34-01.php

But at the AC34 entry deadline of 31 March 2011 there were 12 entries accepted.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

AC34 and AC35 had woefully low numbers of competitors. So no, don't expect applause for matching AC35. The point was to do better.

And the point is still, to do better. The Cup was thriving until Oracle took over, now everyone has to "Do better" 

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

And the point is still, to do better. The Cup was thriving until Oracle took over, now everyone has to "Do better" 

Yes, valencia jag many teams, but the as a spectator it was quite uninteresting. Only a few competitive teams so I guess the difference was that you could enter but not be competitive with a low budget. (what was the budget for Team Shoshaloza?

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

And the point is still, to do better. The Cup was thriving until Oracle took over, now everyone has to "Do better" 

But they are not doing better.  More like making the same arrogant mistakes.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, WetHog said:

But they are not doing better.  More like making the same arrogant mistakes.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

How do you mean? by introducing new teams? tick. By pushing the design envelope? tick. By airing the event free to air? tick. By rebuilding the NZ Marine industry? Tick. How is that "making the same arrogant mistakes" They seem to be ticking more boxes than the last defender ever did.

Oracle introducing more teams? Well maybe Artemis and Groupama (who are now both seemingly out) possibly Softbank (although they seemed more like an Oracle Team USA training team than anything else, a way to incorporate a two boat testing program without actually building a second boat) 

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8 hours ago, Fireball said:

The list of entries for AC34 and when they withdrew is complicated. Have a look at these links if you're interested.

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/ac34-americas-cup-2013-official-challenger-entry-order.php

http://www.cupinfo.com/en/americas-cup-challenger-index-2013-34-01.php

But at the AC34 entry deadline of 31 March 2011 there were 12 entries accepted.

 

 

Was there really ever any word from those 10 teams that they were serious? Or do we just take GGYC's word for it? At least this time round the teams themselves are announcing their campaigns, so we know they're serious, where in 2013 GGYC told us we had 14 challengers and we just had to take their word for it. Seems more like they exaggerated the numbers in order to promote their event.

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21 hours ago, sclarke said:

@sclarke   Sorry mate but you show yourself to be a complete chucklehead. Don't feel bad, though, because Richard Gladwell took the bait, as did Craig Leweck by running this in Scuttlebutt.

Like Gladwell and Leweck, did you not notice

  • that this "official statement" misspells the name of the team leader?
  • that it does not name a YC but says "The beautiful island of Sardinia has issued a challenge?"
  • that it misspells Aukland (sic)
  • that the URL acsardinia.com was registered on 5 juin 2018 and that there is no website
  • that the contact person ColinSquire@ACsardinia.com   has not responded to inquiries for more info
  • that ETNZ has said nothing about receiving or accepting this challenge

Do you really think they have the €€

  • to pay the $1 million entry fee due 10 days after acceptance of the challenge
  • to put up the $1 million performance bond due at the end of July?

If you think this is a valid, accepted challenge, perhaps you'd be interested in buying the Ponte Vecchio in Firenze. I could let you have it for a very special low price.

 

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32 minutes ago, YvesKlein said:

@sclarke   Sorry mate but you show yourself to be a complete chucklehead. Don't feel bad, though, because Richard Gladwell took the bait, as did Craig Leweck by running this in Scuttlebutt.

Like Gladwell and Leweck, did you not notice

  • that this "official statement" misspells the name of the team leader?
  • that it does not name a YC but says "The beautiful island of Sardinia has issued a challenge?"
  • that it misspells Aukland (sic)
  • that the URL acsardinia.com was registered on 5 juin 2018 and that there is no website
  • that the contact person ColinSquire@ACsardinia.com   has not responded to inquiries for more info
  • that ETNZ has said nothing about receiving or accepting this challenge

Do you really think they have the €€

  • to pay the $1 million entry fee due 10 days after acceptance of the challenge
  • to put up the $1 million performance bond due at the end of July?

If you think this is a valid, accepted challenge, perhaps you'd be interested in buying the Ponte Vecchio in Firenze. I could let you have it for a very special low price.

 

First of all, a "chucklehead"? Sure, what ever you say.

Second, I don't care about spelling mistakes, especially given English is often a second language in Europe.

Third, are Teams allowed to run their own websites? last time they had to register websites on Americas Cup.com, and we wont see anyone registering with Americas Cup.com until at least after the end of the entry window at the end of June.

Third, ETNZ has already stated they are leaving announcements up to individual teams, so they're unlikely to say anything about anyone anyway. They haven't said anything about American Magic or Ineos Team UK either, two teams we know are definitely entered.

Do I really think they have the $$, who knows? Sardinia certainly has the financial resources. 

Its either pay $1million dollar performance bond, or pay a $1 million dollar performance bond as well as a $1 million dollar late entry fee on top of that. If I were entering a team, I'd want to avoid any unnecessary extra costs.

 

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11 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Sardinia certainly has the financial resources.  <rolleyes>

 

Pay no heed to French interloper YvesKlein. I happen to hold exclusive agency rights to the Colosseum, which believe me would be a much much better proposition

 

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51 minutes ago, sclarke said:

First of all, a "chucklehead"? Sure, what ever you say.

Second, I don't care about spelling mistakes, especially given English is often a second language in Europe.

Third, are Teams allowed to run their own websites? last time they had to register websites on Americas Cup.com, and we wont see anyone registering with Americas Cup.com until at least after the end of the entry window at the end of June.

Third, ETNZ has already stated they are leaving announcements up to individual teams, so they're unlikely to say anything about anyone anyway. They haven't said anything about American Magic or Ineos Team UK either, two teams we know are definitely entered.

Do I really think they have the $$, who knows? Sardinia certainly has the financial resources. 

Its either pay $1million dollar performance bond, or pay a $1 million dollar performance bond as well as a $1 million dollar late entry fee on top of that. If I were entering a team, I'd want to avoid any unnecessary extra costs.

 

So sorry. You make such compelling points.   (roll eyes)      Yes, a "chucklehead" you are.

  • Colin Squire certainly sounds like an Italian name. No wonder he can't spell the Azzara (sic) or Aukland (sic).  Did you do a simple search to see that he is from Inghilterra?
  • Yes the Protocol does say team websites must be at americascup.com. 
    I guess http://www.americanmagic.com/ and https://www.ineosteamuk.com/ are run by trolls.
  • You think Sardinia will pony up the €€ to pay the fees and performance bond? Care to make a small wager on that?

These guys are not even up to being in the same category as Venezia Challenge, Greencom, Aleph, Energy Team,  and China Team in 2011.  That's a shame because they seem nice enough. Just a bit clueless. Sort of like you.

And, pay no attention to @Xlot - I own the Colosseum, too. I can make you a nice package deal for the Colosseum and the Ponte Vecchio.  Act fast and I'll throw in the Rialto Bridge, too. 

(There's one born every minute.) 

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25 minutes ago, YvesKlein said:

So sorry. You make such compelling points.   (roll eyes)      Yes, a "chucklehead" you are.

  • Colin Squire certainly sounds like an Italian name. No wonder he can't spell the Azzara (sic) or Aukland (sic).  Did you do a simple search to see that he is from Inghilterra?
  • Yes the Protocol does say team websites must be at americascup.com. 
    I guess http://www.americanmagic.com/ and https://www.ineosteamuk.com/ are run by trolls.
  • You think Sardinia will pony up the €€ to pay the fees and performance bond? Care to make a small wager on that?

These guys are not even up to being in the same category as Venezia Challenge, Greencom, Aleph, Energy Team,  and China Team in 2011.  That's a shame because they seem nice enough. Just a bit clueless. Sort of like you.

And, pay no attention to @Xlot - I own the Colosseum, too. I can make you a nice package deal for the Colosseum and the Ponte Vecchio.  Act fast and I'll throw in the Rialto Bridge, too. 

(There's one born every minute.) 

Yes the website listed looks fishy. But for what its worth a lot of references to a challenge in Auckland 2021 

 https://www.facebook.com/adelasiaditorressailingteam/

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Just now, YvesKlein said:

^

For what it's worth, you say?

Not much, sez I.

 

Ending the petty shit here. 

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6 hours ago, sclarke said:

How do you mean? by introducing new teams? tick. By pushing the design envelope? tick. By airing the event free to air? tick. By rebuilding the NZ Marine industry? Tick. How is that "making the same arrogant mistakes" They seem to be ticking more boxes than the last defender ever did.

Oracle introducing more teams? Well maybe Artemis and Groupama (who are now both seemingly out) possibly Softbank (although they seemed more like an Oracle Team USA training team than anything else, a way to incorporate a two boat testing program without actually building a second boat) 

Arrogance in regards to the absurd boat which is on par with the AC72.  That’s all the arrogance needed to produce a an AC cycle with 4 teams, including the Defender.   Box ticking indeed.

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

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22 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Arrogance in regards to the absurd boat which is on par with the AC72.  That’s all the arrogance needed to produce a an AC cycle with 4 teams, including the Defender.   Box ticking indeed.

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

Winners are always "arrogant" according to losers...

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32 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Arrogance in regards to the absurd boat which is on par with the AC72.  That’s all the arrogance needed to produce a an AC cycle with 4 teams, including the Defender.   Box ticking indeed.

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

As opposed to a 50 foot cat powered by 4 cyclists with a wing trimmer playing Xbox the whole time?

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3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

a wing trimmer playing Xbox the whole time?

I for one am disappointed that we won't have that this cycle - its the role I've been training my whole life for!

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I read through a bunch of breathless, desperate crap in mostly NZ media about this Challenge. RG at Sailworld claims it has even been accepted by RNZYS, although nobody else does, presumably meaning they fronted all the necessary millions.

What is missing in all of them is what the Challenging YC is. Did I miss that?

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2 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

I read through a bunch of breathless, desperate crap in mostly NZ media about this Challenge. RG at Sailworld claims it has even been accepted by RNZYS, although nobody else does, presumably meaning they fronted all the necessary millions.

What is missing in all of them is what the Challenging YC is. Did I miss that?

"Breathless, desperate?"  No need to be so negative, mate!  But yes, we're eager for news and perhaps jumping the gun.

There is plenty of evidence, or perhaps I should say a suspect lack of evidence, to suggest that YvesKlein is correct and there ain't no Sardinia Challenge for the AC.

I'm operating in unfamiliar territory, language and culture here but nothing adds up.

A search of L'Unione Sarda digital sports pages finds no mention of the challenge. Instead the most recent posting, nearly a month ago, talks about Luna Rossa setting up base in Cagliari.  

I couldn't even find the online front page that was seized on by Scuttlebutt, the NZ Herald and sail-world.com as evidence of a fourth challenge. That suggests it was an elaborate hoax.

The Sailing Tam certainly exists or existed but its Facebook page has been moribund for the past 12 months.

Time for one of our Italian members to step in and rake through the ashes.

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I beleve it was legit vaporware until June 4 - news agency piece about a vague engineering support deal with the Navigo consortium (superyachts in Tuscany, think Perini Navi)

http://www.ansa.it/toscana/notizie/2018/06/04/coppa-america-accordo-adelasia-navigo_e3e1169b-66e5-45d9-bd5d-4454e6d95af8.html

The latest release, instead, has got to be a fake news fabrication. Is this a first for the Cup?

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Duncan Johnstone has written this piece that appears to have new quotes from Team principles... (?) Along with mentions of "have now officially signed on"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/104488503/sardinian-syndicate-confirms-americas-cup-challenge 

Always felt the powerpoint was high on dreams and promises and a little empty on substance, but hard to know what lies below the waterline...

Website being filled with filler text doesn't help matters - either it's a hoax, or the team aren't bothered with a half-baked online presence being public...

Either way, the lack of detail and discipline demonstrated so far doesn't reflect well...

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14 hours ago, sclarke said:

As opposed to a 50 foot cat powered by 4 cyclists with a wing trimmer playing Xbox the whole time?

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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15 hours ago, Indio said:

Winners are always "arrogant" according to losers...

I wanted ETNZ to win AC35.  Try again.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

 GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

Fair enough. What has my interest drifting away from AC36 is that not one single team is likeable in any way.

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2 hours ago, WetHog said:

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Every single word above describes how I think/feel. Thanks Hoggie!!!

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43 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Fair enough. What has my interest drifting away from AC36 is that not one single team is likeable in any way.

DeVos and Ineos aside, these teams look pretty good to me. 

And while I am still skeptical about Adelasia, they could entertain.

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Really, you consider ETNZ "likeable"?. That hasn't exactly been your position in recent years.

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^  Been in the blue water, in a storm in a multi?  Even more scaring than in a monohull.

But The big round the world multies have shown it possible and even getting to grips with that challenge.

However AC is about pushing the boundaries and these mono-multies are about halfway between.  As witness the ocean racers of today, amazing boats, and AC and it's egos have broken the new ground and paid for the tech to get there.  I would have loved to see wings again because the kite/wing area is there to be explored to blast us onto some even more amazing boats.

There are plenty of one design, match racing regattas now, we need the AC and it's egos to throw the ball further out there.

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9 hours ago, WetHog said:

That was absurd too but GD went on about getting the AC back on track, back to normal, back to mono-hulls, back to boats regular folk can relate to.  I don't remember his exact quote but he didn't do that.  He chose a foiling mono-hull to satisfy his COR and his Skipper.  He went from one absurd boat to another and the AC doesn't appear to be heading in a better direction.  

Let me be clear, I am not bringing this up to get a rise out of you Kiwi fans.  I wanted ETNZ to win the Cup in AC32, I wanted ETNZ to beat Alinghi because I believed GD would take the Cup away from the F1 model and embrace nationality rules.  Then for AC35 I wanted ETNZ to win because of the BS Oracle did (primarily take the defense to Bermuda) and because I wanted to see the Cup back in mono-hulls.  Now ETNZ finally won the Cup back and we have this bull shit.  A mono-hull that foils only because the COR gave ETNZ money to beat Oracle on the condition the new boat would be a mono-hull.  GD did not bring the AC back to its roots, did not choose a boat regular folk could relate to, and as a result few teams are challenging.  It pisses me off and it should piss off everyone who loves the AC, Kiwi's included.

WetHog  :ph34r:

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

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8 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Really, you consider ETNZ "likeable"?. That hasn't exactly been your position in recent years.

So far, it’s been okay. The design and sailing teams are very good. 

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

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3 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

So far, it’s been okay. The design and sailing teams are very good. 

That's "competent" or even "accomplished". It's nothing to do with "likeable".

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6 hours ago, Kiwing said:

to throw the ball further out there.

Could we please throw that tired old cliché "out there" too, far enough so it never comes back?

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Who really thinks the TP52 is an appropriate training boat? We have the US and Italian teams for example sailing the 52's now but surely they are not a training platform for the foiling design they will be racing in? if so the Kiwis would be sailing in the 52 series too IMO

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I find myself wondering if Ineos has abandoned TP52 training because BA doesn't consider it productive or because (perhaps) he's lost Tony Langley's goodwill

If you want to practice/fine-tune the communication flow at the stern of the boat, then sailing TP52s has value and IIRC someone in LR said exactly that. Otherwise, not so much.

 

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19 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Duncan Johnstone has written this piece that appears to have new quotes from Team principles... (?) Along with mentions of "have now officially signed on"

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/104488503/sardinian-syndicate-confirms-americas-cup-challenge 

Always felt the powerpoint was high on dreams and promises and a little empty on substance, but hard to know what lies below the waterline...

Website being filled with filler text doesn't help matters - either it's a hoax, or the team aren't bothered with a half-baked online presence being public...

Either way, the lack of detail and discipline demonstrated so far doesn't reflect well...

Agreed.  In my eyes it falls somewhere between an elaborate hoax or a serious lack of interest in communicating their intent.

I have this uneasy feeling that Duncn J and Richard are picking up stuff and recycling without verification.  Not a single quote from team principals.

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49 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

I find myself wondering if Ineos has abandoned TP52 training because BA doesn't consider it productive or because (perhaps) he's lost Tony Langley's goodwill

If you want to practice/fine-tune the communication flow at the stern of the boat, then sailing TP52s has value and IIRC someone in LR said exactly that. Otherwise, not so much.

 

I suspect it's because of their new found funding from Ineos.

Before the new sponsorship racing someone else's boat was a good plan in their circumstances. They could save their money for the AC75.

Now they have plenty of money there may be better options that involve Ainslie being the helmsman.

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Agreed.  In my eyes it falls somewhere between an elaborate hoax or a serious lack of interest in communicating their intent.

I have this uneasy feeling that Duncn J and Richard are picking up stuff and recycling without verification.  Not a single quote from team principals.

The story came from a Media Release issued by the team issued around 0700 NZT on Wednesday morning. As you would be aware ETNZ/RNZYS won't announce entries until after June 30. Until then it is up to the teams to make their own announcement if they wish - which is what Adelasia di Torres have done. Why would we make up a story like this? It is the first we have run on this team. Challenging for the America's Cup does involve outlaying some serious non-refundable money. Plus in NZ we are bound by strict libel laws and can't just say anything with complete legal impunity as seems to happen in some other jurisdictions.

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 ^. Ahem, how can we be sure you're really Richard Gladwell? What happened to KiwiSpy? :D

 

 

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4 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

I have this uneasy feeling that Duncn J and Richard are picking up stuff and recycling without verification.  Not a single quote from team principals.

I feel uneasy too. NZ Herald, Stuff, Sail World, Live Sail Die, etc have all recycled this piece with little evidence (read no evidence) of background check. If it turns out to be a hoax then there will be some serious egg on faces.

While I want it to be true, it's 2018 folks - watch out for fake news!

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3 hours ago, richardgladwell said:

The story came from a Media Release issued by the team issued around 0700 NZT on Wednesday morning. As you would be aware ETNZ/RNZYS won't announce entries until after June 30. Until then it is up to the teams to make their own announcement if they wish - which is what Adelasia di Torres have done. Why would we make up a story like this? It is the first we have run on this team. Challenging for the America's Cup does involve outlaying some serious non-refundable money. Plus in NZ we are bound by strict libel laws and can't just say anything with complete legal impunity as seems to happen in some other jurisdictions.

Sounds legit.

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5 hours ago, richardgladwell said:

The story came from a Media Release issued by the team issued around 0700 NZT o n Wednesday morning. As you would be aware ETNZ/RNZYS won't announce entries until after June 30. Until then it is up to the teams to make their own announcement if they wish - which is what Adelasia di Torres have done. Why would we make up a story like this? It is the first we have run on this team. Challenging for the America's Cup does involve outlaying some serious non-refundable money. Plus in NZ we are bound by strict libel laws and can't just say anything with complete legal impunity as seems to happen in some other jurisdictions.

Thanks for the update.  Encouraging  but still seems screwy.  Nothing on the team's existing Facebook page.  Nothing  but a stock web design with dummy text on a newly created.  URL. Seems to me that in their enthusiasm these guys are getting way out ahead of themselves ....... or it's a gigantic leg-pull.

Mind telling us what convinced you the release you received is legit.

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14 hours ago, sclarke said:

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

You are right, to early to label them absurd until they hit the water but I still shake my head when I see a picture of the boat.  

The idea about holding on to the new fans attracted by the foiling speed while placating the old fans who grew up with mono-hulls is a nice story but that is not whats happening here.  The JC75 is a huge foiling mono-hull because GD wants to hold on to the new fans while repaying his debt to his COR.  Us old fans have nothing to do with it.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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10 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

FareVela now considering this fake news

https://farevela.net/2018/06/05/americas-cup-adelasia-di-torres-ci-prova-con-navigo/

They have contacted Duccio Colombi, Adelasia's nominated sailing team manager, and he's unaware of a formal challenge having been issued/accepted

 

No way! Really??

Yoiks. He must surely have acknowledged his potential role, thereby confirming that part of the presser?

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7 hours ago, richardgladwell said:

The story came from a Media Release issued by the team issued around 0700 NZT on Wednesday morning. As you would be aware ETNZ/RNZYS won't announce entries until after June 30. Until then it is up to the teams to make their own announcement if they wish - which is what Adelasia di Torres have done. Why would we make up a story like this? It is the first we have run on this team. Challenging for the America's Cup does involve outlaying some serious non-refundable money. Plus in NZ we are bound by strict libel laws and can't just say anything with complete legal impunity as seems to happen in some other jurisdictions.

Maybe contact them?

from the release,

contact ColinSquire@ACsardinia.com for further information.

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

You are right, to early to label them absurd until they hit the water but I still shake my head when I see a picture of the boat.  

The idea about holding on to the new fans attracted by the foiling speed while placating the old fans who grew up with mono-hulls is a nice story but that is not whats happening here.  The JC75 is a huge foiling mono-hull because GD wants to hold on to the new fans while repaying his debt to his COR.  Us old fans have nothing to do with it.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

And why do you think it is that LR wanted to go back to a monohull? Because they know, as ETNZ do, that the majority of the sailing community prefer the monohull direction as opposed to the multihull direction. They also know the multihull era of the Americas Cup has failed big time and has damaged the current state, as well as the future of the Americas Cup. This new direction attempts to combine the two. ETNZ have always preferred the Monohulls over the multi's.

Take off the tin foil hat. One minute you don't want the big slow mono slugs of the V5 era, then the AC72's and AC50's are absurd, then you don't want the AC75 either, maybe just stop following the Americas Cup altogether, because you're never going to be satisfied.  

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17 hours ago, sclarke said:

Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats.

/thread.

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16 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Not yet. You have to explain your new Profile pic. David Bowie?

Marcello Mastroianni, aka Mr Sophia Loren

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7 minutes ago, doghouse said:

Marcello Mastroianni, aka Mr Sophia Loren

Wow.

What Yacht Club did you join, when you ‘switched teams’?

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Wow.

What Yacht Club did you join, when you ‘switched teams’?

Lol. To quote the late, great Troy McClure, "I wish".

 

I'm not sure I could describe it without rambling into a PA style diatribe. I guess the TL;DR version is anyone who doesn't appreciate La Dolce Vita or 8 1/2 is a philistine, and there's a lot of fucking philistines these days.

 

I've also been partial to this shot of Len Dawson smoking a cigarette during halftime of Super Bowl I.

 

iiol4ejj0ae01.jpg

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On 6/8/2018 at 1:38 PM, Monkey said:
On 6/8/2018 at 11:17 AM, sclarke said:

If you look at it objectively, the reasoning behind the new AC75 concept is understandable.

The Multihull era failed - twice. All we got was Larry Ellison and his rich friends "competing" against each other, if you can actually call it that.

 Where it did succeed, was it put butts in seats in terms of TV coverage purely because of the speed and the excitement of the boats. It did attract sponsors, but then again, many of the teams in Bermuda didn't require sponsors as they were bankrolled by billionaires, or at least multi millionaires. France, The Kiwi's and Groupama probably the teams most dependant on sponsorship. 

It also attracted the non-sailing audience, but the problem with that is, they go down to their local sailing club expecting to learn to sail foiling boats, and what they get is small dinghies that aren't particularly appealing. 

The majority of the sailing community are still partisan to Monohulls because its basically all they know. The problem with that is, the monohulls of the past, while being very cool, don't have the speed and/ or the excitement of the foiling cats, they are big and graceful and require finesse to sail them around an Americas Cup course, but to the non-sailing audience they are just big, slow, slugs that are boring to watch. 

ETNZ were in a position where if they went with the traditional slow but graceful, tried and true Monohull, they risked losing much of the audience that tuned in to Bermuda, but if they went with the failed Multihull route, they risked losing the majority of the sailing community that were partisan to the monohull tradition. Not to mention, they would've looked somewhat hypocritical. So they were left with one option, a foiling monohull, which incorporates elements of both preference. Speed and excitement, as well as grandeur and tradition. 

I don't know how anyone can write these new boats off as "absurd" when we haven't even seen one sail yet, let alone race in anger. 

ETNZ have a proven track record of innovation and forward thinking. The least we could all do is wait until one is launched before we judge them. 

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

Pot, meet kettle.

Think outside the box a bit monkey boy. It wasn't just a deal with LR that led to the monos, it was a shared conviction that this was the way to go, to drive development somewhere else for the future.

no-one has splashed a trickle on version of the last cycle's machines. And there is as of yet no "press release" the AC/F!/maybe 50's, so don't even go there until the rubber meets the road.

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On 6/8/2018 at 1:38 PM, Monkey said:

Please, just come clean and tell us that post was an intentional troll. 

I know New Zealand’s education system is far too good for that to have been serious. 

Nope, not an intentional troll. Just the truth.

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On 5/23/2018 at 2:39 PM, MR.CLEAN said:

damn that is cold

Buck is gonna win brucie his first Worlds this year...that's gotta be worth something!

I’m sorry did you mean next year? 

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On 6/8/2018 at 12:42 PM, sclarke said:

And why do you think it is that LR wanted to go back to a monohull? Because they know, as ETNZ do, that the majority of the sailing community prefer the monohull direction as opposed to the multihull direction. They also know the multihull era of the Americas Cup has failed big time and has damaged the current state, as well as the future of the Americas Cup. This new direction attempts to combine the two. ETNZ have always preferred the Monohulls over the multi's.

Take off the tin foil hat. One minute you don't want the big slow mono slugs of the V5 era, then the AC72's and AC50's are absurd, then you don't want the AC75 either, maybe just stop following the Americas Cup altogether, because you're never going to be satisfied.  

My guess is The Poodle wanted a mono-hull because he wanted a design reset.  Thats the only reasonable guess I can make as to why he would agree to a mono-hull where the mono-hull is not supposed to touch the water during racing.  Once again, had nothing to do with the sailing community.  

As for the mono-hull I wanted to see, TP52 variant with the foiling system used by the latest IMOCA boats or a variant of the IMOCA boats themselves.   Would of been fun to see how an AC design competition could of taken that IMOCA technology forward and the sailing community could of actually related to whatever was created.  Instead we got a boat that appears to be more impractical to the sailing community than the AC72's and AC50's.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Waaaa....

there are plenty who found/find the imoca a step too far.

Are you 100% positive this AC design has nothing to offer, worst idea yet, failed already, a total dead end? 

"Please let's stick to the stable, traditional, widely accepted and used Imoca system - there can be nothing superior, ever!" W.H. :blink:

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

My guess is The Poodle wanted a mono-hull because he wanted a design reset.  Thats the only reasonable guess I can make as to why he would agree to a mono-hull where the mono-hull is not supposed to touch the water during racing.  Once again, had nothing to do with the sailing community.  

As for the mono-hull I wanted to see, TP52 variant with the foiling system used by the latest IMOCA boats or a variant of the IMOCA boats themselves.   Would of been fun to see how an AC design competition could of taken that IMOCA technology forward and the sailing community could of actually related to whatever was created.  Instead we got a boat that appears to be more impractical to the sailing community than the AC72's and AC50's.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

The IMOCA system is foil assist providing lift to leeward. It only works at high wind speeds when the boat has enough pace to lift off. There is no way the IMOCA system would work around the cans as the boats as they would not provide enough lift through maneuvers. The IMOCA system was designed for single handed off shore racing, not inshore round the buoys racing in a large wind range. 

I don't get how the AC75's can be "more impractical than the AC72's, or AC50's just because they won't touch the water" Both of those classes, the AC50 especially were designed with the aim of "keeping the hulls dry" so whats the difference? The cats had 2 hulls, both of which were not supposed to touch the water, where the AC75 has only one hull to lift, so that argument is irrelevant.

 

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IN
Team New Zealand
Luna Rossa
Ineos Team UK
American Magic

POSSIBLE
Sardiana  Challenge
Team USA-21
Norway
Swiss
France
China
Australia

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