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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

This event, like the boats, will be financially a big step backwards

Too bad you'll be wrong again, Stinger. 

Nothing about AC36 will be a step backwards - unless ETNZ fails to defend of course.

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24 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Too bad you'll be wrong again, Stinger. 

Nothing about AC36 will be a step backwards - unless ETNZ fails to defend of course.

Yep, that could be right but who is the big $LE this time? I'm not seeing evidence of it yet, just the rumors about P$B pressing 'Prada' throwing 'LV' off the CSS stage - and those rumors all single-sourced to one article in Italian - an unsourced article that may also have been speculative. 

The only item that P$B explicitly announced about his condition to $upport to ETNZ was that the boat ETNZ chose would have to be a monohull. If there is Prada money for a Prada Cup, it remains to be seen if ETNZ or Auckland get another, new piece of Prada pie.

 

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35 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, that could be right but who is the big $LE this time? I'm not seeing evidence of it yet, just the rumors about P$B pressing 'Prada' throwing 'LV' off the CSS stage - and those rumors all single-sourced to one article in Italian - an unsourced article that may also have been speculative. 

The only item that P$B explicitly announced about his condition to $upport to ETNZ was that the boat ETNZ chose would have to be a monohull. If there is Prada money for a Prada Cup, it remains to be seen if ETNZ or Auckland get another, new piece of Prada pie.

 

You and a4 are probably the only two here who saw TNZ race team members toss thier LV luxury leather travel bags into the crowd and didn't realize the the next challengers cup would have Prada attached to it...

You do realize that LV and Prada are in direct competition for the $5000 handbag market?

Remember how you and the rest of the west coast maf used to slag off LV and Trouble when you thought they were walking away from the world super league of the world?

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3 hours ago, Trebe said:

1) Few Teams involved,

2) no close challenges.

3)Nobody in the world cares about it except in Us, Uk and Nz.

1) What do you consider few ?

2) I advise you to watch the races again

3) Wrong, you can also add Sweden, France and probably a couple of others.

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Hello everyone

2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

And you seriously believe we will have more Teams entering in Auck 2021 than in BDA 2017? Nope the way P$B has run over ETNZ/RNZYS.

 

I thought you'd left us, started enough threads stating you were leaving.

I don't know can't trust anyone these days.

 

However it is a good point you make that BAR are not officially in. As there is no announced protocol only the defender and challenger can possibly be in at this stage.  

IMHO the move away from multis is a good thing, it will stimulate interest and development in a different area of our sport. Run a couple of cups in monos and then try multis again. And for those who whinge about the cost, it's about winning the America's Cup, not biggest cucumber at a summer fete.

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18 hours ago, Trebe said:

Is this a joke? Can we consider Japanese and French actually two Teams? The event in Bermuda was a Fiasco. Few Teams involved, no close challenges. Nobody in the world cares about it except in Us, Uk and Nz.

Such aggression from such a newbie, I don't know.

Must issue the traditional SA greeting.

'Fuck off and show us your tits.' 

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On 9/23/2017 at 10:16 AM, Trebe said:

Is this a joke? Can we consider Japanese and French actually two Teams? The event in Bermuda was a Fiasco. Few Teams involved, no close challenges. Nobody in the world cares about it except in Us, Uk and Nz.

You have to forgive surfsailor - too much salt-water contamination of what passes for his brain!. And you are correct - AC35 was a fiasco, with only one competitive team (Artemis) from OR-Xerox and their poodles..

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Just now, Tornado-Cat said:

1) What do you consider few ?

2) I advise you to watch the races again

3) Wrong, you can also add Sweden, France and probably a couple of others.

1) I consider AC32 the best event in terms of broadcast. We had 10 challengers. Many countries represented. 
2) I watched every race, I have never had a doubt on who would have been the winner, except at the beginning of Jap-Swe.
The Starts were always the same with the same moves. I didn't see starts like Spithill vs Dickson in 2007. 
3) Actually, France was represented by French sailors so spot on, the problem was that they had the worst boat, so no chances to bring quality in the cup.
Artemis team could represent every nation of the world, it could be Artemis Uk or Artemis Australia , nobody could spot it.

The time gap between OR and ETNZ in the final was enormous if you consider how short were the races. With the old format, ETNZ would have won with 10 minutes or more in many of the races.
 

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On 22-9-2017 at 3:54 PM, WetHog said:

Things will become much clearer once the protocol and boat rule are made official.  Especially in regards to previous challengers like Artemis and BAR.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Oracle drops out.. Bwhaa...:lol:
Guess Larry is tired of the thing. Three other american teams? Wow

I spoke Dirk de Ridder and he is planning a Dutch Challenge the first time in History.
He confirms our beermaker Heineken is willing and able to sponsor.
Still in the make but Dirk said he'll open a new thread when everything is oficial.
He's in Auckland right now to discuss things.
For sure he'll be team captain and manager.
I guess Simeon Tienpoint will join the team as well but he's on Team Akzo Nobel right now.

I'll do some engineering for them together with:
http://www.marin.nl/web/show
and 
https://www.tudelft.nl/3me/organisatie/afdelingen/maritime-and-transport-technology/research/ship-hydromechanics/facilities/towing-tank-no-1/
 
I'll let you know when it's official.

800px-Luchtfoto_MARIN.jpg

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When the cup left America in '83 we got the most challengers 13 in Aussie because it was winnable again. NZ done the unthinkable in 1995 made it winnable again. 11 challengers in NZ '00 Same thing when it left NZ for Europe in '03. Winnable again. 11 challengers. Now it's off American hands again and a new boat level playing field. In '21 Will the pattern continue?

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6 hours ago, Trebe said:

1) I consider AC32 the best event in terms of broadcast. We had 10 challengers. Many countries represented. 
2) I watched every race, I have never had a doubt on who would have been the winner, except at the beginning of Jap-Swe.
The Starts were always the same with the same moves. I didn't see starts like Spithill vs Dickson in 2007. 
3) Actually, France was represented by French sailors so spot on, the problem was that they had the worst boat, so no chances to bring quality in the cup.
Artemis team could represent every nation of the world, it could be Artemis Uk or Artemis Australia , nobody could spot it.

The time gap between OR and ETNZ in the final was enormous if you consider how short were the races. With the old format, ETNZ would have won with 10 minutes or more in many of the races.
 

I agree about some of your points on this new post, however,

1) Number of teams: 6 teams was not so bad

2) Interest of the races: I could not figure out who would be the winner most of the time, some races have been really exciting, in particular when TNZ nearly stopped at the end of the race, but also with BAR. Boats were incredibly fast, exciting, using tactics.

3) The reason the gap was so big at the end was because TNZ was optimized for light wind and were lucky to have perfect conditions for their last races. Had the conditions been higher the result could have been different. But that is part of a race.

At the end, it was a good AC, even though not as spectacular as SF, and Bermudas prices were a deterrent to travel.

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7 hours ago, schakel488 said:

Oracle drops out.. Bwhaa...:lol:
Guess Larry is tired of the thing. Three other american teams? Wow

I spoke Dirk de Ridder and he is planning a Dutch Challenge the first time in History.
He confirms our beermaker Heineken is willing and able to sponsor.
Still in the make but Dirk said he'll open a new thread when everything is oficial.
He's in Auckland right now to discuss things.
For sure he'll be team captain and manager.
I guess Simeon Tienpoint will join the team as well but he's on Team Akzo Nobel right now.

I'll do some engineering for them together with:
http://www.marin.nl/web/show
and 
https://www.tudelft.nl/3me/organisatie/afdelingen/maritime-and-transport-technology/research/ship-hydromechanics/facilities/towing-tank-no-1/
 
I'll let you know when it's official.

 

Dutch challenge led by Dirk de Ridder.  That gets its own special Bwhaa.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Put it that way laser regarding BAR:

My Opinion is that Ben needs a Private Sponsor for his AC 36 Challenge given how the Event is structured (New Boat Class, quite possibly 2 Boats, etc). Unless he gets a big private backer like Tony Langley onboard he isn't going to challenge. Land Rover being his lone commercial sponsor ain't going to cut it so all this talk here that he is IN is waaaay too premature for my liking.

Do you sit there just making things up or do you deliberately get your 'facts" wrong? Try looking at BAR's sponsors. Land Rover was not BAR's only sponsor by a long shot. I believe they contributed just under 50% of the budget for the right to be title sponsor.

BAR have the commitment from enough sponsors and founding board members to know they have the money to go again if they want to. They are waitig for the protocol and class rule before deciding, which is what any sensible team would do.

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2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

No, they don't. Are you really saying they have commitments from sponsors worth 150m Pounds? (Because that's the money they need for AC 36)

You are absolutely crazy and naive.

Again, you are making shit up. 150m pounds? Over 200m US dollars? What planet are you on. You don't have a clue. If the budget needed is 200m US dollars there will be nobody.

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12 hours ago, WetHog said:

Dutch challenge led by Dirk de Ridder.  That gets its own special Bwhaa.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

Agreed. Why would anyone sponsor him after being booted from the cup match for cheating? 

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4 hours ago, jaysper said:

Agreed. Why would anyone sponsor him after being booted from the cup match for cheating? 

He was already penalized for that.
And he was not guilty because he was just following orders.
 

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3 hours ago, schakel488 said:

He was already penalized for that.
And he was not guilty because he was just following orders.
 

Sorry but just following orders doesn't cut it imo.

However, whilst he has indeed been penalised for it, it doesn't mean he's the guy you want heading up your syndicate.

 

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18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Sorry but just following orders doesn't cut it imo.

However, whilst he has indeed been penalised for it, it doesn't mean he's the guy you want heading up your syndicate.

 

Yeah, choosing someone like de Ridder with his recent AC past to lead a start up Challenge is interesting to say the least.  Usually a new challenge would want the focus to be on the team and building themselves into a competitive challenge from scratch.  Instead, de Ridder himself will be the focus for much, if not all, of media coverage at the start of that campaign.  And it won't be positive media coverage.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Cheese is exactly who I'd want heading up my syndicate if I was Dutch and wanted a chance to compete.

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Yes, Dutch, French and British teams. Lets turn the clock back 3 or 4 hundred years, before the USA, Aus & NZ were around.

Maybe the Portuguese could join and Spain could build a new armada.

:D Yes, I'm being silly, I know.

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39 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Cheese is exactly who I'd want heading up my syndicate if I was Dutch and wanted a chance to compete.

He has sailing bona fides to be sure but his past will be a major topic of conversation of a large chunk of the beginning of that challenge.  That wouldn't give sponsors pause, or would de Ridder's challenge have billionaire bucks behind it?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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8 hours ago, WetHog said:

Yeah, choosing someone like de Ridder with his recent AC past to lead a start up Challenge is interesting to say the least.  Usually a new challenge would want the focus to be on the team and building themselves into a competitive challenge from scratch.  Instead, de Ridder himself will be the focus for much, if not all, of media coverage at the start of that campaign.  And it won't be positive media coverage.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

For me it is simpler than that. It speaks of his character, or lack thereof.

Suggesting that "he was just following orders" is a valid defence is ridiculous because he could have always said "No, fuck you".

This is not the Nuremberg trials. He wasn't going to be shot for disobeying orders. He would simply have lost his gig for that AC cycle.

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Some fool, was it Tienpont?, (wrongly!) decided it would be good to put the corrector weight forward instead of midships where directed, because he (possibly rightly) understood that the whole reason for the additional weight was to accommodate all the branding shit that LR insisted on, on their foresail.

And so he (whoever) put it on the job list, the two others went along with it, etc. Some knowledgeable guy posted here about how by that time, all the AC45's were out of whack in various ways - including the one that his other (undisclosed) team's boat was. They'd been damaged, repaired and otherwise mod'd for almost 3 years by that point.

Only 3 guys were in Newport to prep OR's AC45's when they did it. The focus by the core team was all about trying to get the AC72 ready, all in SF, they had no idea wtf had happened 3000 miles away until confronted about it weeks later.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Some fool, was it Tienpont?, (wrongly!) decided it would be good to put the corrector weight forward instead of midships where directed, because he (possibly rightly) understood that the whole reason for the additional weight was to accommodate all the branding shit that LR insisted on, on their foresail.

And so he (whoever) put it on the job list, the two others went along with it, etc. Some knowledgeable guy posted here about how by that time, all the AC45's were out of whack in various ways - including the one that his other (undisclosed) team's boat was. They'd been damaged, repaired and otherwise mod'd for almost 3 years by that point.

Only 3 guys were in Newport to prep OR's AC45's when they did it. The focus by the core team was all about trying to get the AC72 ready, all in SF, they had no idea wtf had happened 3000 miles away until confronted about it weeks later.

Stinger, you are playing both sides of the fence.

On one hand you say that Orifice can't be tagged with cheating in the AC because there was no proof (which is a perfectly reasonable argument IMO).

But the above statement seems to suggest that not everyone who was penalised for cheating in the ACWS can be tagged for cheating. 

Either you accept the referees decision or you don't. You can't pick and choose.

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^ OR was tagged with cheating in the ACWS, and paid a two point penalty in the actual AC match. That does not mean the entire team was involved - in fact, if they were, the boats would've been changed back. 

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Yep, they were penalized for it. Much like the AB's or other teams in other sports get penalized when members of their teams break the rules, and whether those individuals were directed to do so by upper management or not. Same thing happened there - and in this case they got  sh*t canned and told to f'off by management for it.

RC did about the most honorable thing he could, faced with it. Took big steps even before the (independent!) IJ ruled on it too.

A big part of the coming Protocol is for me around if the IJ or Arb Panel, and Race Management & Measuremt etc, will be as truly independent as it was under the past 2 cycles. Commercialism is different but those are very important to keep separated.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Some fool, was it Tienpont?, (wrongly!) decided it would be good to put the corrector weight forward instead of midships where directed, because he (possibly rightly) understood that the whole reason for the additional weight was to accommodate all the branding shit that LR insisted on, on their foresail.

And so he (whoever) put it on the job list, the two others went along with it, etc. Some knowledgeable guy posted here about how by that time, all the AC45's were out of whack in various ways - including the one that his other (undisclosed) team's boat was. They'd been damaged, repaired and otherwise mod'd for almost 3 years by that point.

Only 3 guys were in Newport to prep OR's AC45's when they did it. The focus by the core team was all about trying to get the AC72 ready, all in SF, they had no idea wtf had happened 3000 miles away until confronted about it weeks later.

Simply fantasy. Look at pictures of the LR AC45. It had a single small PRADA sticker on each side, which was far less than what Oracle had on their sail. I think only Artemis had less.

You cannot excuse cheating with comments like that even if it was true. The order from ACEA and the new class rule that specified where the weight was to go and how much did not state a reason why the weight was being added. There was no room for interpretation. The reason for the added weight didn't matter, although in this case your story is simply fantasy because all AC45's needed to add the weight. 

There are only 2 explanations. The order from ACEA was very specific. so somebody either did not read it or decided to ignore it. Not reading it is negligent to the point of gross incompetence because it is totally inconceivable that there would have been an instruction to add weight without specifying where it was to go. The other possibility is that somebody chose to place the weight somewhere other than where it was meant to go. I refuse to accept that team members of that calibre were incompetent and did not know to check the order from ACEA. The first question any person in such a position would ask is where the weight is meant to go. Somebody made a deliberate and conscious decision  to place the weight where it was placed and irrespective of whether they felt it would gain an advantage or not, it was cheating. Whatever reason they did it doesn't matter. It is cheating not to follow a clear instruction like that

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, they were penalized for it. Much like the AB's or other teams in other sports get penalized when members of their teams break the rules, and whether those individuals were directed to do so by upper management or not. Same thing happened there - and in this case they got  sh*t canned and told to f'off by management for it.

RC did about the most honorable thing he could, faced with it. Took big steps even before the (independent!) IJ ruled on it too.

A big part of the coming Protocol is for me around if the IJ or Arb Panel, and Race Management & Measuremt etc, will be as truly independent as it was under the past 2 cycles. Commercialism is different but those are very important to keep separated.

No, its not "much like the AB's!" it would be more like the AB's taking performance enhancing drugs to win a game, or using a banned type of sprig. Or winning a game deliberately playing16 men on the field. Getting penalised is MUCH DIFFERENT to "Cheating" thats right...cheeaating. They used equipment which was illegal according to the rule, when the rest of the fleet is one design. Thats not a penalty, that is outright cheating. In sports, competitors get penalised all the time, but its NOT cheating. What Oracle did WAS out right cheating. 

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2 hours ago, surfsailor said:

^ OR was tagged with cheating in the ACWS, and paid a two point penalty in the actual AC match. That does not mean the entire team was involved - in fact, if they were, the boats would've been changed back. 

Stinger said "some fool" but it wasn't some fool it was several fools and he is also painting the ACWS as a simple mistake.

My point was that you can't defer to the referees only when it suits you.

If you assert that Orifice didn't cheat in the cup "because the referee said so" then you must also assert that they DID cheat in the ACWS for precisely the same reason. 

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36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Stinger said "some fool" but it wasn't some fool it was several fools and he is also painting the ACWS as a simple mistake.

My point was that you can't defer to the referees only when it suits you.

If you assert that Orifice didn't cheat in the cup "because the referee said so" then you must also assert that they DID cheat in the ACWS for precisely the same reason. 

Agreed. It's very simple really. Oracle cheated in the ACWS. What does not follow on from that is the idea that because they cheated in the ACWS they also cheated in the AC match itself. While some might suggest that if they would cheat once they would cheat again, you an also argue that they would be under greater scrutiny because of the proven cheating.

I have seen nothing to suggest that the cheating in the ACWS was anything other than a group of misguided team members acting independently of management. They saw an opportunity, they took it and thought they couldn't get caught. Because they did, it forced OR to adopt far stricter controls and record keeping and made it harder to cheat in the future.

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16 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Cheese is exactly who I'd want heading up my syndicate if I was Dutch and wanted a chance to compete.

DdR was found to be be leading mind in cheating by about the most highly qualified IJ you could find and that conclusion was upheld all the way up the line.

Some people may believe that the IJ hanged the wrong person or failed to get the right person but as far as gaining sponsorship is concerned it no longer matters. DdR is damaged goods and any potential sponsor needs to recognise that association with him is unlikely to be positive for their brand.

 

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

Stinger said "some fool" but it wasn't some fool it was several fools and he is also painting the ACWS as a simple mistake.

My point was that you can't defer to the referees only when it suits you.

If you assert that Orifice didn't cheat in the cup "because the referee said so" then you must also assert that they DID cheat in the ACWS for precisely the same reason. 

Absolutely agree 100% - that ACWS cheating was complete bull shit, and heads rolled just like they should have.

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7 hours ago, dogwatch said:

DdR was found to be be leading mind in cheating by about the most highly qualified IJ you could find and that conclusion was upheld all the way up the line.

Some people may believe that the IJ hanged the wrong person or failed to get the right person but as far as gaining sponsorship is concerned it no longer matters. DdR is damaged goods and any potential sponsor needs to recognise that association with him is unlikely to be positive for their brand.

 

Hey, we agree on something!  Good times

WetHog  :ph34r:

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14 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A big part of the coming Protocol is for me around if the IJ or Arb Panel, and Race Management & Measuremt etc, will be as truly independent as it was under the past 2 cycles. Commercialism is different but those are very important to keep separated.

 

IM was not independent in AC34

It's great that we have you around to tell us which rules need to be followed and which are mere inconveniences

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On 9/24/2017 at 4:53 AM, schakel488 said:

Oracle drops out.. Bwhaa...:lol:
Guess Larry is tired of the thing. Three other american teams? Wow

I spoke Dirk de Ridder and he is planning a Dutch Challenge the first time in History.
He confirms our beermaker Heineken is willing and able to sponsor.
Still in the make but Dirk said he'll open a new thread when everything is oficial.
He's in Auckland right now to discuss things.
For sure he'll be team captain and manager.
I guess Simeon Tienpoint will join the team as well but he's on Team Akzo Nobel right now.

I'll do some engineering for them together with:
http://www.marin.nl/web/show
and 
https://www.tudelft.nl/3me/organisatie/afdelingen/maritime-and-transport-technology/research/ship-hydromechanics/facilities/towing-tank-no-1/
 
I'll let you know when it's official.

800px-Luchtfoto_MARIN.jpg

You are so full of shit.

Dirk was in Menorca sailing on Platoon up until Saturday, and you posted this on Sunday.

You are also delusional if you think that Dirk would have anything to do with Simeon.

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12 hours ago, dogwatch said:

DdR was found to be be leading mind in cheating by about the most highly qualified IJ you could find and that conclusion was upheld all the way up the line.

Some people may believe that the IJ hanged the wrong person or failed to get the right person but as far as gaining sponsorship is concerned it no longer matters. DdR is damaged goods and any potential sponsor needs to recognise that association with him is unlikely to be positive for their brand.

 

One of these days the evidence will come out about how the whole deal went down between Coutts and the Jury.  Just like OJ was found not guilty in criminal court of killing his wife and Ron Goldman, a sailing tribunal with a bunch of interlocking relationships most certainly can hang the wrong people and let others who did the dirty work go free.

 

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Dirk de Ridder is a poisoned chalice and no sponsor will touch him. He knows this. He tried to get a Volvo campaign together but couldn't get any money. Even with VOR wanting teams and "giving boats away", DdR was told there would be no help for him. He also has no credibility in the AC, having only done the one campaign with OR and we all know how that ended. His true background is the 4 Volvo's he has done and even then, he has never run a Volvo campaign, let alone something bigger. So if he couldn't get a Volvo together, which needs far less money and doesn't need the same level of management skills as the AC, how is he going to manage to get an AC campaign together. 

As for him hooking up with Tienpont, that shows a total lack of knowledge of the people and dynamics. There is no way that would ever happen. Last I heard was they don't speak and barely acknowledge each other these days.

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36 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

Dirk de Ridder is a poisoned chalice and no sponsor will touch him. He knows this. He tried to get a Volvo campaign together but couldn't get any money. Even with VOR wanting teams and "giving boats away", DdR was told there would be no help for him. He also has no credibility in the AC, having only done the one campaign with OR and we all know how that ended. His true background is the 4 Volvo's he has done and even then, he has never run a Volvo campaign, let alone something bigger. So if he couldn't get a Volvo together, which needs far less money and doesn't need the same level of management skills as the AC, how is he going to manage to get an AC campaign together. 

As for him hooking up with Tienpont, that shows a total lack of knowledge of the people and dynamics. There is no way that would ever happen. Last I heard was they don't speak and barely acknowledge each other these days.

If Dirk is so toxic, then why did he trim main on both the World Champion Maxi 72 and TP 52 this year, and is also on a contending team in the RC 44, is the main trimming on Comanche when schedule allows, and trims main and had a lot to do with the upgrades on the J Class Hanuman, and would sail on the Fast 40 Girls on Film if there were more days in the month.

As for him trying to put together a Volvo team - you are on crack.  He has no time for that, and it's not something to which he aspires anyway - besides, you might be eating your words if you see him on a team for a leg or two.

He did not do one campaign with Oracle - he did two. He trimmed the biggest wing ever built for the DoG match.

Otherwise, while you hide behind a screen name and trash a man you clearly do not know, you can go fuck yourself.

 

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

Dirk de Ridder is a poisoned chalice and no sponsor will touch him. He knows this. He tried to get a Volvo campaign together but couldn't get any money. Even with VOR wanting teams and "giving boats away", DdR was told there would be no help for him. He also has no credibility in the AC, having only done the one campaign with OR and we all know how that ended. His true background is the 4 Volvo's he has done and even then, he has never run a Volvo campaign, let alone something bigger. So if he couldn't get a Volvo together, which needs far less money and doesn't need the same level of management skills as the AC, how is he going to manage to get an AC campaign together. 

As for him hooking up with Tienpont, that shows a total lack of knowledge of the people and dynamics. There is no way that would ever happen. Last I heard was they don't speak and barely acknowledge each other these days.

Talent buys a lot of forgiveness. I remember this one time where Land Rover happily sponsored this British dude who was on camera beating on a photographer. ;)

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23 minutes ago, PeterHuston said:

If Dirk is so toxic, then why did he trim main on both the World Champion Maxi 72 and TP 52 this year, and is also on a contending team in the RC 44, is the main trimming on Comanche when schedule allows, and trims main and had a lot to do with the upgrades on the J Class Hanuman, and would sail on the Fast 40 Girls on Film if there were more days in the month.

As for him trying to put together a Volvo team - you are on crack.  He has no time for that, and it's not something to which he aspires anyway - besides, you might be eating your words if you see him on a team for a leg or two.

He did not do one campaign with Oracle - he did two. He trimmed the biggest wing ever built for the DoG match.

Otherwise, while you hide behind a screen name and trash a man you clearly do not know, you can go fuck yourself.

 

As usual, you are way off base. If you cannot see the difference between trimming mainsheet, sailing on a boat or any of the other things that you say he is doing and fronting an AC team, you are even more removed from the reality of sailing than i thought. 

Sorry, i forgot that he was on the DoG boat, but if you think that trimming a wing on that and on the AC72 qualifies him for running an AC team, again, you are detached from reality.

If he had no time for a Volvo campaign, why did he approach one of my closest friends to see if he could use his name as part of a potential team as a watch captain? Maybe him telling you (if he ever did) that it wasn't something he aspires to was his way of rationalising the fact he could not have got a deal together. 

I know you are the patron saint of lost causes, fighting injustice real or imaginary in the world of sailing, but your man was a cheat. That didn't just come from the people who you have a personal vendetta against, such as ISAF and all the members of the IJ. CAS concluded that as well. Remember how they described him and how reliable the found his testimony? Oh, I forgot. They were all in on the conspiracy - ISAF, the IJ, CAS and everybody else all conspired to make DdR a scapegoat when he had done nothing wrong. It wears a bit thin. Your theories became ridiculous once you included CAS in the whole conspiracy.

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...

World Champion Maxi 72 and TP 52 this year, and is also on a contending team in the RC 44, is the main trimming on Comanche when schedule allows, and trims main and had a lot to do with the upgrades on the J Class Hanuman, and would sail on the Fast 40 Girls on Film...

None of them sponsorship funded boats, I note. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

As usual, you are way off base. If you cannot see the difference between trimming mainsheet, sailing on a boat or any of the other things that you say he is doing and fronting an AC team, you are even more removed from the reality of sailing than i thought. 

Sorry, i forgot that he was on the DoG boat, but if you think that trimming a wing on that and on the AC72 qualifies him for running an AC team, again, you are detached from reality.

If he had no time for a Volvo campaign, why did he approach one of my closest friends to see if he could use his name as part of a potential team as a watch captain? Maybe him telling you (if he ever did) that it wasn't something he aspires to was his way of rationalising the fact he could not have got a deal together. 

I know you are the patron saint of lost causes, fighting injustice real or imaginary in the world of sailing, but your man was a cheat. That didn't just come from the people who you have a personal vendetta against, such as ISAF and all the members of the IJ. CAS concluded that as well. Remember how they described him and how reliable the found his testimony? Oh, I forgot. They were all in on the conspiracy - ISAF, the IJ, CAS and everybody else all conspired to make DdR a scapegoat when he had done nothing wrong. It wears a bit thin. Your theories became ridiculous once you included CAS in the whole conspiracy.

You know what's really funny, Dirk and I have been going back and forth today about the bullshit in here.

You are conflating the issues with the Volvo, the mention was made of him running a team.  That's a big difference than being a watch captain, and yes, he might have considered that, if the schedules and money all worked out.  

The guy who said he was in Auckland putting together a Dutch AC team...as if...I mentioned that to Dirk and here is his reply:

haha I haven't been in Auckland since the Volvo and have zero contact with Heineken or any abition to deal with anything to do with AC

So Mr Internet Toughguy, all knowing, while not having the guts to come out from behind a screen name....that the best you got?

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4 hours ago, PeterHuston said:

You know what's really funny, Dirk and I have been going back and forth today about the bullshit in here.

You are conflating the issues with the Volvo, the mention was made of him running a team.  That's a big difference than being a watch captain, and yes, he might have considered that, if the schedules and money all worked out.  

The guy who said he was in Auckland putting together a Dutch AC team...as if...I mentioned that to Dirk and here is his reply:

haha I haven't been in Auckland since the Volvo and have zero contact with Heineken or any abition to deal with anything to do with AC

So Mr Internet Toughguy, all knowing, while not having the guts to come out from behind a screen name....that the best you got?

Poor Dirk was the fall guy in the ACWS AC45 cheating scandal - I hope he made OR_Xerox pay him well for the NDA. No one can convince me that Spithill eta al were not in on it.

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This discussion isn't about whether DdR gets sailing gigs. It's about whether there is a snowball in hell's chance of his ever leading a team that requires attracting significant sponsor $$$$.

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10 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

Dirk de Ridder is a poisoned chalice and no sponsor will touch him.

8 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

None of them sponsorship funded boats, I note.

8 hours ago, PeterHuston said:

So what's your point?

My point is being the hired help for a number of BSDs doesn't mean that he isn't toxic to sponsors.

He should take up cycling. They don't mind cheats there.

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4 hours ago, surfsailor said:

^ Live Strong AC challenge! Who needs cyclors when you've got EPO!

LOL

 

4 hours ago, surfsailor said:

^ Live Strong AC challenge! Who needs cyclors when you've got EPO!

LOL

Hire Chris Froome. He's Epo proof.
 

bettiniphoto_0215641_1_full_1_670.jpg

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So, Mr Huston, let's see if i get this right. You confirm DdR is not trying to get a Dutch AC campaign together, which is exactly what I said. My reasoning was that he couldn't because he is toxic to sponsors and doesn't have the experience. You don't counter that, so we can agree. The only bone of contention is whether he had any interest in getting a Volvo campaign together. You say he didn't but he did consider watch captain, I say he made some effort to explore the possibilities and dropped it.You make a big deal out of it all when really we aren't that far apart and agree on the key point, DdR is not trying to get a Dutch challenge for the AC together.

None of that addresses the biggest issue, the fact he is a convicted cheat and no sponsor would touch him. Good luck to him getting jobs as a mainsheet trimmer. He has done his time and therefore should be allowed to work without issue, but he stands no chance of getting a gig where he needs to be high profile and where sponsors are involved. From the sounds of it, he knows that and isn't trying to

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On 24/09/2017 at 9:53 AM, schakel488 said:

 

Doug Lord is more likely to be employed

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On 9/26/2017 at 6:57 PM, Presuming Ed said:

 

 

None of them sponsorship funded boats, I note. 

 

Neither is about 98% of the paid gigs in sailing

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After the protocol is announced, various teams will have three options, should they choose to publicly respond at all:

 

1. Enthusiastic embrace: I only see ENTZ and Prada here

2. "This looks promising but we need to see how the costs will be kept to a reasonable level while assuring that all teams have a fair chance of victory": LRBAR, at least one Aussie syndicate, at least one US syndicate. 

3. "We don't believe this fits our sponsors or fans, but we'll dig deeper and ask questions": OR, GTF, SBTJ, Artemis, Alinghi, MAPFRE and the other Volvo teams. 

 

Now, let's see how close I am...

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7 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

3. "We don't believe this fits our sponsors or fans, but we'll dig deeper and ask questions": OR, GTF, SBTJ, Artemis, Alinghi, MAPFRE and the other Volvo teams. 

Now, let's see how close I am...

A long way off with that lot. OR are out. Artemis are out. SBTJ are out. None of the Volvo teams are either interested or have the capacity. GTF might keep up a facade of interest, but they were dead in the water once it went back to monohulls. The rumour says that Alinghi would have been back in if it had been in multis. While I wouldn't bet the bank on it, I doubt any of those teams ill be there and most won't even bother saying anything official at all.

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^ LRBAR will likely have a positive response soon, no matter what the thing says. What else do they have to look forward to doing, with all their infrastructure and organization?

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7 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

A long way off with that lot. OR are out. Artemis are out. SBTJ are out. None of the Volvo teams are either interested or have the capacity. GTF might keep up a facade of interest, but they were dead in the water once it went back to monohulls. The rumour says that Alinghi would have been back in if it had been in multis. While I wouldn't bet the bank on it, I doubt any of those teams ill be there and most won't even bother saying anything official at all.

Meh!

Whilst more teams is better, if those teams are going to pack a sad and fuck off home as soon as things don't go their way then good riddance IMO.

ETNZ had to endure both Alinghi and Orifice fucking with the cup as cup holders for 14 years and stuck it out.

Now its their turn, or not as it would seem.

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Meh!

Whilst more teams is better, if those teams are going to pack a sad and fuck off home as soon as things don't go their way then good riddance IMO.

ETNZ had to endure both Alinghi and Orifice fucking with the cup as cup holders for 14 years and stuck it out.

Now its their turn, or not as it would seem.

I hope there are a few $B's beside P$B, instead of only a bunch of weakling econo-teams just making up the numbers while the really heavy money $B's go off to other things.

But if history is a guide then we won't know for a while.. The close date for entering could be worth noting today.

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6 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I hope there are a few $B's beside P$B, instead of only a bunch of weakling econo-teams just making up the numbers while the really heavy money $B's go off to other things.

But if history is a guide then we won't know for a while.. The close date for entering could be worth noting today.

I don't care whether teams are backed by Billionaires or not.

I would just like to see a whole bunch of teams, with  at least a number of them being competitive as in '87,'92,'95, 00, 03 and 07.

With regards to the likes of Artemis, I would prefer they stayed in. But if they are such soft cocks that a change of boat upsets them, then they can fuck off.

ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last fucking cup cycle!

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32 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

A long way off with that lot. OR are out. Artemis are out. SBTJ are out. None of the Volvo teams are either interested or have the capacity. GTF might keep up a facade of interest, but they were dead in the water once it went back to monohulls. The rumour says that Alinghi would have been back in if it had been in multis. While I wouldn't bet the bank on it, I doubt any of those teams ill be there and most won't even bother saying anything official at all.

What I mean by that third statement is that those teams will be doing a polite no. I find it unlikely that any teams will actually say "we're out" at this stage ... they'll say "don't call us, we'll call you". Then maybe a bit down the road they will officially announce that they are out. 

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4 hours ago, jaysper said:

I don't care whether teams are backed by Billionaires or not.

I would just like to see a whole bunch of teams, with  at least a number of them being competitive as in '87,'92,'95, 00, 03 and 07.

With regards to the likes of Artemis, I would prefer they stayed in. But if they are such soft cocks that a change of boat upsets them, then they can fuck off.

ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last fucking cup cycle!

Artemis, BAR, SoftBank and probably TF were all in if they kept the AC35 format for AC36. I believe OR would've been as well as part of the framework agreement. So clearly participation of any/all of those teams was not a priority.

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13 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Artemis, BAR, SoftBank and probably TF were all in if they kept the AC35 format for AC36. I believe OR would've been as well as part of the framework agreement. So clearly participation of any/all of those teams was not a priority.

Nope, it was not a priority although BAR have already committed to the next cup.

Of the rest of those teams, the only one that I am disappointed about the loss of is Artemis and perhaps GTF simply because I have a soft spot for the frogs generally.

Softbank were just Orifice's lap dog and Orifice spent two cup cycles shitting all over it, despite having previously (quite correctly) having complained about Ernie doing the same.

 

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

I don't care whether teams are backed by Billionaires or not.

I would just like to see a whole bunch of teams, with  at least a number of them being competitive as in '87,'92,'95, 00, 03 and 07.

With regards to the likes of Artemis, I would prefer they stayed in. But if they are such soft cocks that a change of boat upsets them, then they can fuck off.

ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last fucking cup cycle!

How can you expect a whole bunch of teams, never mind a number of them being competitive, when the entry window closes 2 months before the venues are confirmed?  Then there is ambiguity in regards to the boat rule and then restrictions on when the boats can be launched.  Not very Challenger friendly, IMO.

You can shit on Oracle all you want, they deserve it, but the AC36 protocol is very Oracle-esque and I can't see how, at this point, anyone can expect a significant increase in the number of Challengers over AC35.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

With regards to the likes of Artemis, I would prefer they stayed in. But if they are such soft cocks that a change of boat upsets them, then they can fuck off.

ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last fucking cup cycle!

ETNZ only saw a change in length of the boat. All the work they had already done was still applicable. Artemis (and others) have been building over a period of time in order to use their experience to win, just like TNZ did originally. Changing the type of boat means they throw everything away and start again. Add the nationality rule, which really hammers Artemis more than a team from a warmer climate and you can see why they won't want to be part of it. You could actually argue that the residency requirements are specifically written to hurt and get rid of Artemis. 

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5 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

ETNZ only saw a change in length of the boat. All the work they had already done was still applicable. Artemis (and others) have been building over a period of time in order to use their experience to win, just like TNZ did originally. Changing the type of boat means they throw everything away and start again. Add the nationality rule, which really hammers Artemis more than a team from a warmer climate and you can see why they won't want to be part of it. You could actually argue that the residency requirements are specifically written to hurt and get rid of Artemis. 

Hmmm, your history is weak grasshopper. 

ETNZ saw a change from monos to multis for AC34, change to a totally different multi for AC35 and then "only" a change in length of boat half way through the design cycle.

So as sad as it will be to see Torbjörn take his toys home and refuse to play with everyone else, if he is such a fucking soft cock then he isn't worthy of winning the cup.

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17 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hmmm, your history is weak grasshopper. 

ETNZ saw a change from monos to multis for AC34, change to a totally different multi for AC35 and then "only" a change in length of boat half way through the design cycle.

So as sad as it will be to see Torbjörn take his toys home and refuse to play with everyone else, if he is such a fucking soft cock then he isn't worthy of winning the cup.

^ Mmmmmm...Kool Aid!

Here's the reality: The team that developed the AC34 rule also designed ETNZ's boat. All of the tech - and lessons learned - from AC34 were carried over to AC35. A couple feet of boat length was cut off to attract more teams and it worked. You're 0 for 3, dude.

 

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6 hours ago, jaysper said:

 

ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last fucking cup cycle!

 

6 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hmmm, your history is weak grasshopper. 

ETNZ saw a change from monos to multis for AC34, change to a totally different multi for AC35 and then "only" a change in length of boat half way through the design cycle.

So as sad as it will be to see Torbjörn take his toys home and refuse to play with everyone else, if he is such a fucking soft cock then he isn't worthy of winning the cup.

Your comprehension of what you wrote is weak, Grasshopper.

I was responding to the point you made (quoted above) that ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last cycle..... Please don't try to suggest I was saying any more than i actually was saying :).

 

You are good at defending what ETNZ does, so maybe you can explain something to me. There was a claim that foiling cats are not suited to the intended venue, which on the face of it seemed reasonable. BUT, isn't Auckland where ETNZ spent so much time training on their AC50. I am at a bit of a loss to understand why it was so good for training on the AC50 but AC50's are unsuitable to race there.

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14 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

 

Your comprehension of what you wrote is weak, Grasshopper.

I was responding to the point you made (quoted above) that ETNZ stayed in when they changed the boat half way through the last cycle..... Please don't try to suggest I was saying any more than i actually was saying :).

 

You are good at defending what ETNZ does, so maybe you can explain something to me. There was a claim that foiling cats are not suited to the intended venue, which on the face of it seemed reasonable. BUT, isn't Auckland where ETNZ spent so much time training on their AC50. I am at a bit of a loss to understand why it was so good for training on the AC50 but AC50's are unsuitable to race there.

I never made that claim and you are correct that it is bullshit.

I just don't like cats for match racing and etnz went with monos because of their agreement with Prada. 

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3 hours ago, surfsailor said:

Here's the reality: The team that developed the AC34 rule also designed ETNZ's boat. All of the tech - and lessons learned - from AC34 were carried over to AC35. A couple feet of boat length was cut off to attract more teams and it worked. You're 0 for 3, dude.

That's your reality: My reality is that M&M developed the AC34 rule and Pete Melvin was employed by ETNZ to assist in the design because of his experience in catamaran design.  The design team at ETNZ comprised of some 30 people and together with the sailors they developed the foiling catamaran for AC34.

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4 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

That's your reality: My reality is that M&M developed the AC34 rule and Pete Melvin was employed by ETNZ to assist in the design because of his experience in catamaran design.  The design team at ETNZ comprised of some 30 people and together with the sailors they developed the foiling catamaran for AC34.

Sure. I honestly don't know who did what, and it this context it doesn't matter. I merely noting that the ETNZ's design team included the one/some of the guys that wrote the rule, so the idea that the AC34 rule was somehow 'unfair' to ETNZ was idiotic.

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17 hours ago, 2Newts said:

After the protocol is announced, various teams will have three options, should they choose to publicly respond at all:

 

1. Enthusiastic embrace: I only see ENTZ and Prada here

2. "This looks promising but we need to see how the costs will be kept to a reasonable level while assuring that all teams have a fair chance of victory": LRBAR, at least one Aussie syndicate, at least one US syndicate. 

3. "We don't believe this fits our sponsors or fans, but we'll dig deeper and ask questions": OR, GTF, SBTJ, Artemis, Alinghi, MAPFRE and the other Volvo teams. 

 

Now, let's see how close I am...

Alinghi response is in (thanks to Barnyb over in the Team Alinghi thread). Not QUITE a polite no, but pretty close to it. On my scale from above, I give it a response-type of 2.75:

AMERICA'S CUP
Statement by Ernesto Bertarelli, leader of alinghi

Geneva - Alinghi has a unique place in the history of America's cup and continues to participate successfully in its high-Level International Sports program.

Our team, not only for the perfect conditions for lake Geneva, has a natural predisposition for fast and light craft projects, which have recently developed to the use of foil. For us, too, this is the future of our sport.

They are certainly many in the world of sailing those who
They're hoping for a return of alinghi to America's cup. For our part, we are confident that alinghi has helped to inspire a new generation of young swiss talents in sailing, talents that have the ambition, experience and professionalism needed to be part of a team that is able to challenge the best sailors of the World.

Now that the protocol for the next edition of the America's cup has been published, we will study it carefully and we will check the pros and cons.

In the coming months, at the end of the competitive season, we will see whether the new protocol matches our dna and our future ambitions.

The only certainty we have today is our endless passion for this sport, thanks to which we will continue to enjoy and learn race after race.

(Translated)

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17 hours ago, 2Newts said:

After the protocol is announced, various teams will have three options, should they choose to publicly respond at all:

 

1. Enthusiastic embrace: I only see ENTZ and Prada here

2. "This looks promising but we need to see how the costs will be kept to a reasonable level while assuring that all teams have a fair chance of victory": LRBAR, at least one Aussie syndicate, at least one US syndicate. 

3. "We don't believe this fits our sponsors or fans, but we'll dig deeper and ask questions": OR, GTF, SBTJ, Artemis, Alinghi, MAPFRE and the other Volvo teams. 

 

Now, let's see how close I am...

LRBAR response, thanks to A4E over in the Team Alinghi thread is in. 

http://www.yachtsandyachting.co.uk/americas-cup/ainslie-confirms-intention-enter-36th-americas-cup/

Spot on, the the one added concern about the nationality clause specifically as it impacts costs and fairness. 

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13 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

 BUT, isn't Auckland where ETNZ spent so much time training on their AC50. I am at a bit of a loss to understand why it was so good for training on the AC50 but AC50's are unsuitable to race there.

 

A previous AC in Auckland was criticised by some because they stuck rigidly to the pre-designated wind limits and lost race days.

There is a difference (I would have thought an obvious one) between training when the weather permits vs running (up to seven) pre-scheduled regattas

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13 hours ago, WetHog said:

How can you expect a whole bunch of teams, never mind a number of them being competitive, when the entry window closes 2 months before the venues are confirmed? 

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

Tell me, what do the words 'Late entries close' bring to mind?

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2 minutes ago, nav said:

 

Tell me, what do the words 'Late entries close' bring to mind?

It brings to my mind teams on the level of +39, China Team, Young Australia, Fast 2000, America True, etc...  starting late and with no fucking shot to make the PC Semi's never mind facing ETNZ in the Cup finals.  

Serious Challengers will enter by the " Entries for Challengers Close" date of June 30, 2018 which happens to be 2 months before the venue, or venue's, is confirmed.  Oracle-esque shady.

WetHog  :ph34r:

 

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"The wait until next March for full details of the new class gives ETNZ and Luna Rossa a big head start in recruiting designers and refining design tools. 'The agreement with the challenger of record and the defender puts them in a pretty nice position. They know what the rule is going to be and can work towards it,' comments Ben Ainslie.

“'It’s not ideal from any challengers perspective because we want to be on a level playing field.'"

http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/110264-110264

This is as concise an assessment on the advantage ENTZ and LR have as I think we will see. It really means that the other interested teams will have to get comfortable with entering in full knowledge of this disadvantage.

So why would you enter despite this disadvantage? I think there are a couple of possible reasons:

1. You have enough designers and sailors with enough experience that you think you can overcome this disadvantage. LRBAR may fall in this camp.

2. You view this as the first cycle of a multi-cycle effort to win the cup. An Aussie or new American challenge may fall into this camp.

3. You don't care. Given the dollars at stake, I doubt anyone falls into this camp.

 


 

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16 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

BA wants to know what a "key stakeholder" is as well.  

Quote

“The only thing we [knew] is what was leaked through the media; we have none of the details here so it’s interesting when they say there will be discussions with stakeholders. We’d love to be consulted and understand what constitutes a stakeholder. That’s something we will be pushing for, for more detail.”
Read more at http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/110264-110264#uveDY7stskySjWda.99

Maybe LR is the only "key stakeholder" and the rest of the Challengers will be left twisting in the wind until March to know what the boat rule is.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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8 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

1st estimate on cost I have read from Cammas:

Quote

The French sailor explained that on Friday morning he made an estimate of the cost of the project, which would amount to 22 million euros a year, or 5 to 7 million more per year than the previous one.

 

And considering GTF was the lowest budget team for AC35 then Cammas's estimate is probably on the low side.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

 

OTUSA had at least the guts to publish the Design Rule along with the Protocol for AC 35.

 

A year after they won the cup. For those with ESL issues, that means 9 months from now, or long after ETNZ will have already released the Class rule, venue designation, and pretty much everything else.  

 

As for the number of challengers, I know for a fact that there will be at least one other Italian challenger and most likely two.  One American challenger is already funded thanks to the Devos family.  BAR is another one, and Australia will be there too. 

Italy: 2 confirmed, 3 likely

America: 1 confirmed, 2 likely, 3 possible

England: 1 confirmed

Australia: 1 all but confirmed

China: Likely

NZ: 1 Defender

So that's six definites with 2 more highly likely, 2 more likely, and that's before anyone else even throws their hat in.

France? Sweden? Holland? 

Question for you A4E - if Alinghi enter, are they idiots?

 

 

 

 

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All teams know the new boat will have to be groundbreaking and will be a mono. You HAVE to go through a conceptual design stage where you sift through all manner of crazy ideas , foil combinations, wing/soft sails, scow/wave pearcing bows, ballast, beam, check what the minis/Imocas have been doing. I imagine every team is in this stage already, not wasting time waiting for the rule. Sure ETNZ/LR will have an advantage, but every design team can get busy right now.

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38 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Not true.

Oracle won AC 34 mid-September 2013 and published the Protocol & Design Rule in Mid-June 2014 (9 months...hardly a year as you claim)

The AC72 rule?  How'd that go?

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39 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

 

Secondly Dalts claimed 82% of the people he apparently talked wanted a mono. Where are these people? Why can't he disclose the Names? Do you want to know what I think: That 82% Number is just a FICTION. He didn't talk to anyone. That's my opinion.

That's not what Dalts claimed at all, though I understand you have difficulty understanding english.  

 

he said a website (sail-world?) ran a survey asking people if they wanted a mono or a multi, and the response was 82% for mono.  It was particularly unscientific, and probably the weakest part of his entire pitch for everyone to accept the AC75.

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