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30 minutes ago, Boybland said:

So why even have a class rule that states the boat can't be changed except by unanimous vote if it clearly can be changed simply by specifying a new class rule in the protocol by majority vote.  Pretty meaningless to include the clause if it's unenforcable.

I agree it can be confusing, however, once the boat is decided, the rules governs the changes.

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20 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

I agree it can be confusing, however, once the boat is decided, the rules governs the changes.

So announcing the boat is not deciding the boat? but the rule has not been released and therefore not legally binding therefore open to change under the protocol? even though everyone knew that the class rule can only be changed by unanimous consent? Boy oh boy is that skating on thin moral ice or what!

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As I understand it, Luna Rossa also holds veto powers as CoR.

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21 minutes ago, sclarke said:

As I understand it, Luna Rossa also holds veto powers as CoR.

LR was not CoR, the gave their right to the challenger committee.

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1 hour ago, Boybland said:

So announcing the boat is not deciding the boat? but the rule has not been released and therefore not legally binding therefore open to change under the protocol? even though everyone knew that the class rule can only be changed by unanimous consent? Boy oh boy is that skating on thin moral ice or what!

It was not about moral ice at the time, it was about LR misreading the prot. It strangely comes back now as a conspiracy theory.

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1 hour ago, Tornado-Cat said:

LR was not CoR, the gave their right to the challenger committee.

I believe he is referring to AC36

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On 11/3/2017 at 2:56 PM, rh2600 said:

Hoggie I'm genuinely surprised - first off again, putting words in my mouth despite be declaring the opposite. My only assessment on Cammas is that he's simply not neutral when it comes to judging the LA vs LR - nothing about him being dishonest.

You said Cammas was "in the pocket" of Larry Ellison.  Where I come from when someone is referred to in that way their credibility and honesty is in question, to put it nicely.  Merriam Webster seems to feel the same way about "in the pocket":

Quote

- Under someone's control or influence 

Example:  researchers/scientists who are in the pocket ofpharmaceutical companies

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in the pocket of (someone)

As does the Collins English Dictionary:

Quote

If you say that someone is in someone else's pocket, you disapprove of the fact that the first person is willing to do whatever the second person tells them, for example out of weakness or in return for money.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/in-someones-pocket

And Dictionary.com:

Quote

Under someone's absolute control

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/in-someone-s-pocket

And the Urban Dictionary:

Quote

When someone says they have someone "in their pocket" they mean that they have the person on check! Meaning they own someone.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=In my pocket

I have no idea if you spoke those words, so not sure I put them in your mouth, but you definitely typed them and posted them under your online identity on this website.  So you feel that Cammas is owned by Larry Ellision, that Cammas will say an do anything in support of Larry Ellison because Larry Ellison owns Cammas.  Essentially that whenever Cammas speaks he lacks credibility and honesty because you believe that Cammas is being told what to say by Larry Ellison.  That Cammas is a liar, basically.  I disagree.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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4 hours ago, WetHog said:

You said Cammas was "in the pocket" of Larry Ellison.  Where I come from when someone is referred to in that way their credibility and honesty is in question, to put it nicely.  Merriam Webster seems to feel the same way about "in the pocket":

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/in the pocket of (someone)

As does the Collins English Dictionary:

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/in-someones-pocket

And Dictionary.com:

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/in-someone-s-pocket

And the Urban Dictionary:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=In my pocket

I have no idea if you spoke those words, so not sure I put them in your mouth, but you definitely typed them and posted them under your online identity on this website.  So you feel that Cammas is owned by Larry Ellision, that Cammas will say an do anything in support of Larry Ellison because Larry Ellison owns Cammas.  Essentially that whenever Cammas speaks he lacks credibility and honesty because you believe that Cammas is being told what to say by Larry Ellison.  That Cammas is a liar, basically.  I disagree.

WetHog  :ph34r:

wow! All that effort and still being wrong...

In his pocket? Yes
Under his influence? Yup
Thus dishonest? No way (and of course none of your definitions make that leap)

Maybe spend the next couple of hours trawling dictionaries again and you'll learn that too!

Perhaps where you come from being influenced by money makes you automatically dishonest, but in my world (and Cammas's) that isn't the case at all.

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13 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

It was not about moral ice at the time, it was about LR misreading the prot. It strangely comes back now as a conspiracy theory.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, just greedy self interest with weaker teams voting for something that made them stronger at the expense of the stronger teams, doesn't make it any less wrong.

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

I don't think it's a conspiracy, just greedy self interest with weaker teams voting for something that made them stronger at the expense of the stronger teams, doesn't make it any less wrong.

100%!

The group dynamics at play were significant, and eerily reminiscent of the rudder changes Artemis supported with Oracle in AC34 because it further reduced the gap between them and LR/ETNZ.

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That is what I was thinking at the time, now I just believe that any defender priority is to make a sucess of the event, thus having a spectacular boat and as many teams as possible, thus needs to help some teams when necessary. The CoR has completely different objectives and wants to neutralize as many challengers as possible to win.

The rudder changes, iirc, were mainly for OR, but we now know that length, strengh and surface are key for safety.

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12 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

That is what I was thinking at the time, now I just believe that any defender priority is to make a sucess of the event, thus having a spectacular boat and as many teams as possible, thus needs to help some teams when necessary. The CoR has completely different objectives and wants to neutralize as many challengers as possible to win.

The rudder changes, iirc, were mainly for OR, but we now know that length, strengh and surface are key for safety.

I agree that the defenders priority was probably unrelated to performance (you could even argue more challengers even works against them), it was mainly the other challengers that are at fault, they clearly saw an opportunity to further their own ends even though they knew it was pretty underhanded they went ahead with it anyway.  Even the defender though is nt without fault, they have an obligation to the teams that have already challenged and must have known it was a pretty shit move to punish LR and ETNZ just to allow a couple of extra pretty uncompetitive borderline teams to attend.

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Alright, with the new platform announced, now is crunch time for teams on the bubble to get in or out. 

I would suspect that the teams on the bubble are looking at that platform and seeing dollar (or euro or pound or franc or yen or whatever) signs spinning. The point was made in the Next Boat 2020 thread that very low budget teams that might have been able to hang in for a third go at catamarans will opt out of spending (they may see as wasting) money on a also-ran program on a new platform. I would also suspect that anyone serious about getting in will make the announcement by Christmas - otherwise it will get VERY difficult to put a competitive team in place in time. 

So:

OTUSA: no indication to make us think so

OTAUS: good idea, but magic 8-ball says "outlook not so good"

Cammas: Nothing to attract a French sponsor to this idea yet

Alinghi: Platform has not solved any of the reasons to be skeptical

Artemis: Ditto

2nd Italy: Gotta move fast - might be too late to get the team together with the nationality requirements

Other USA: Ditto

New team from China/Japan/Germany/Russia/etc: Unless Clean has heard something, there's not an indication yet. 

 

If anyone knows any billionaires, now is the time to convince them to jump in. The clock is ticking. 

Has anyone heard anything? Clean?

 

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I can't imagine this concept was put together with the desire to attract many teams.  Unless they are going to go full one-design with the entire foil system, only the richest of potential teams could think they could keep up... and I don't know how many are going to be enticed by this... at least this time around.

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So, in fact, all we are waiting for is a pronouncement from Alinghi and Artemis. In any case, at most six bases will be needed - this change should be input into the AKL decision process

 

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The original Artemis ‘requirement’ seemed a stretch but they must be very pleased it appears to have been fully addressed.

I bet Artemis is a Go!

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2 hours ago, 2Newts said:

Alright, with the new platform announced, now is crunch time for teams on the bubble to get in or out. 

I would suspect that the teams on the bubble are looking at that platform and seeing dollar (or euro or pound or franc or yen or whatever) signs spinning. The point was made in the Next Boat 2020 thread that very low budget teams that might have been able to hang in for a third go at catamarans will opt out of spending (they may see as wasting) money on a also-ran program on a new platform. I would also suspect that anyone serious about getting in will make the announcement by Christmas - otherwise it will get VERY difficult to put a competitive team in place in time. 

So:

OTUSA: no indication to make us think so

OTAUS: good idea, but magic 8-ball says "outlook not so good"

Cammas: Nothing to attract a French sponsor to this idea yet

Alinghi: Platform has not solved any of the reasons to be skeptical

Artemis: Ditto

2nd Italy: Gotta move fast - might be too late to get the team together with the nationality requirements

Other USA: Ditto

New team from China/Japan/Germany/Russia/etc: Unless Clean has heard something, there's not an indication yet. 

 

If anyone knows any billionaires, now is the time to convince them to jump in. The clock is ticking. 

Has anyone heard anything? Clean?

 

Haven't been digging much unfortunately, too much fun raising a 2 year old!  Will be back beating the bushes over the next couple weeks though.

 

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My teams forecast: 

ETNZ and LRC plus: 

— NYYC and LRBAR 90% chance

— Alinghi and Artemis 50% chance

— 2nd ITA and USA challenges 20% chance

— OTUSA and a Russian challenge (many owners could afford it but for one reason or another they never pull the AC trigger) 10% chance

— Other new challenges 5% chance

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  ^ Agree: for a grand total of ... 5, max. 6 teams. But 4 teams only would be just as likely ...

 

 

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6 hours ago, paperinick said:

My teams forecast: 

ETNZ and LRC plus: 

— NYYC and LRBAR 90% chance

— Alinghi and Artemis 50% chance

— 2nd ITA and USA challenges 20% chance

— OTUSA and a Russian challenge (many owners could afford it but for one reason or another they never pull the AC trigger) 10% chance

— Other new challenges 5% chance

I mostly agree but I think your probabilities on Alinghi and Artemis are too high, especially the former. I'd also count the chances of a Team AUS as higher than a Team RUS. As for OTUSA, they are history.

It's surprising - and IMO not encouraging - that the boat announcement hasn't linked in with any team announcements.

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Sadly, some comments by TE in a recent webcast have me wondering if - despite their announced intention - Quantum Racing (NYYC) may be having a rethink. This boat is way different from where their experience and expertise is.

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7 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Sadly, some comments by TE in a recent webcast have me wondering if - despite their announced intention - Quantum Racing (NYYC) may be having a rethink. This boat is way different from where their experience and expertise is.

I still hope they and a bunch of others turn up. I do think on the surface of it, these seem like silly boats. Could be wrong and only racing will confirm one way or the other of course. But that's my current opinion. 

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17 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I still hope they and a bunch of others turn up. I do think on the surface of it, these seem like silly boats. Could be wrong and only racing will confirm one way or the other of course. But that's my current opinion. 

For sure, 6 teams or more would be nicer than fewer. A NYYC entry may get a few superyachts to travel all the way down there too, something ETNZ seems for whatever reason concerned about.

TE also suggested that his preliminary talks with a US West Coast team have cooled, unfortunately for me since NYYC is not even remotely ‘in my neighborhood’ and am no real fan of the de Vos family either.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Sadly, some comments by TE in a recent webcast have me wondering if - despite their announced intention - Quantum Racing (NYYC) may be having a rethink. This boat is way different from where their experience and expertise is.

Depends really. Maybe if they can get Jimmy Spithill , some of the Oracle guys, Dean Barker and a few of the Softbank guys, they may have a good shot. Won't be hard to convince Spithill, or possibly Dean Barker. 

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The realities are that any team would rightly see the foiling AC75 as a significant advantage for ETNZ with their winning foil designs and control systems legacy from AC35. And this view might deter and discourage some marginal Challengers from pulling the trigger.

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5 hours ago, Indio said:

The realities are that any team would rightly see the foiling AC75 as a significant advantage for ETNZ with their winning foil designs and control systems legacy from AC35. And this view might deter and discourage some marginal Challengers from pulling the trigger.

The other reality has always been that any first-time team needs to look at this round as the experience-gaining round, not the time to win the cup. 

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On 11/27/2017 at 5:36 AM, 2Newts said:

The other reality has always been that any first-time team needs to look at this round as the experience-gaining round, not the time to win the cup. 

Alinghi being the glaring exception to the "always"...

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18 hours ago, Indio said:

Alinghi being the glaring exception to the "always"...

Buying the current winning team is always the exception to having to put in the normal amount work to achieve a goal... 

It is however a proven formula for success for billionaire sports fans the world over!

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they'll be there, i was assured of this months ago by someone who should know

 

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/act-sport/twotime-winner-jimmy-spithill-wants-to-see-australia-back-in-the-americas-cup-20171205-gzzlbz.html

Two-time America's Cup winner Jimmy Spithill says he'd love to see Australia back competing in the world's most famous sailing race after a 21-year hiatus.

sounds like Jimmy is job hunting

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

sounds like Jimmy is job hunting

Probably answering a question, is all he was doing. The Q should really be asked of Anthony Bell.

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Just got a package from Jimmy.  Apparently I'm on the '6 months after it's released' list ;)

Guess I have some reading to do.  

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30 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got a package from Jimmy.  Apparently I'm on the '6 months after it's released' list ;)

Guess I have some reading to do.  

He's hoping you can hock off a few more copies to the 100,000+ Sailing Anarchy family...

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On 12/10/2017 at 10:53 AM, MR.CLEAN said:

Just got a package from Jimmy.  Apparently I'm on the '6 months after it's released' list ;)

Guess I have some reading to do.  

 

Just finished Alan Sefton's "Exposed". Kept me up late a few nights: well-written, very detailed, clears up some foggy memories of what the hell happened there over the decades. Plus a huge amount of detail on the pre-modern era. Well worth getting a copy unless you're a pictures kind of guy. 

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Onto Chapter 3 it is very a interesting read chapter 2 blew my mind.

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On 10/12/2017 at 7:24 AM, Indio said:

He's hoping you can hock off a few more copies to the 100,000+ Sailing Anarchy family...

its actually a pretty good book Indio and he explains lots of things that many people didn't know about him or his sailing career

oh, sorry, i forgot

ORaCle HaD a secREt DeViCE CaLLeD HERbiE ThAt MADe thEm WiN

you're fucking retarded indio

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2 hours ago, Xlot said:

Hoping against hope for a surprise tomorrow ...

It’s past midnight so they may have 4 or more entries already, ETNZ and LR included. RG made a reasonable argument (base allocations) for why other teams may want to file asap.

 

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7 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

its actually a pretty good book Indio and he explains lots of things that many people didn't know about him or his sailing career

oh, sorry, i forgot

ORaCle HaD a secREt DeViCE CaLLeD HERbiE ThAt MADe thEm WiN

you're fucking retarded indio

Is that the special Aussie edition with cartoons and colouring-in pictures??:lol:

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9 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Looks from 2.3 that it will be Jan 15 or later before any announcements are made

http://www.rnzys.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/AC-36-Trustee-Memorandum-No-1.pdf

We can always hope!  Nothing in Trustee Memorandum No 1 that precludes hopefuls from telling the world that they've chucked their hat in the ring.

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17 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

We can always hope!  Nothing in Trustee Memorandum No 1 that precludes hopefuls from telling the world that they've chucked their hat in the ring.

The second sentence of 2.4 may disallow it and allow only RNZYS to announce confirmations, and only after after ‘consultations’ but I guess we’ll see.

Interestingly although likely coincidentally, Jan 15 is also when the ‘Resource Consent’ process is targeted to begin. A measure of the interest-level by competitors could come up as a big question there.

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13 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

its actually a pretty good book Indio and he explains lots of things that many people didn't know about him or his sailing career

oh, sorry, i forgot

ORaCle HaD a secREt DeViCE CaLLeD HERbiE ThAt MADe thEm WiN

you're fucking retarded indio

He's had the mic enough times, perhaps he could have explained more then instead of sledging and generally acting like a goose...

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16 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Looks from 2.3 that it will be Jan 15 or later before any announcements are made

 

So they have set an entry opening date when the office is closed for 3 weeks. Hilariously inept. Can you imagine the reaction here if GGYC had done that?

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33 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

So they have set an entry opening date when the office is closed for 3 weeks. Hilariously inept. Can you imagine the reaction here if GGYC had done that?

We're in the 21st century: heard of email date/time-stamp?? Sheeesh..you fucking poms aren't happy unless you're miserable!!

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8 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The second sentence of 2.4 may disallow it and allow only RNZYS to announce confirmations, and only after after ‘consultations’ but I guess we’ll see.

Interestingly although likely coincidentally, Jan 15 is also when the ‘Resource Consent’ process is targeted to begin. A measure of the interest-level by competitors could come up as a big question there.

2.4 addresses acceptance of challenges. There are no caveats prohibiting potential challengers from informing the world they have lodged a challenge.

Although the formality adopted by the Squadron might deter the faint-hearted.

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I forget what thread this rumor had a chain of chat in, but fwiw:

TE said today in a ‘One Hears’ segment that the AC50 Series is a Go, possibly with LV the Title Sponsor and RedBull involved too.

The first event will be in SF to coincide with OracleWorld, this October. Further events in 2019 will include (at minimum) Bermuda, Chicago, and SF again.

Rumored teams include Oracle, Artemis, GTF, a RedBull Team, and .... Alinghi! There was a possible sixth team mentioned but I forget who that was. edit: SBTJ maybe? Oracle will race 2 AC50’s and other teams may too. 

Yes, he said AC50’s not AC45F’s, and also suggested they will be both up-moded and made more evenly competitive. My guess is that AC45T’s will be part of the fleet to be upgraded, although TE suggested Alinghi is building theirs new.

RG was on the webinar too, I expect he will post his take on what he heard - which may vary a little.

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35 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I forget what thread this rumor had a chain of chat in, but fwiw:

TE said today in a ‘One Hears’ segment that the AC50 Series is a Go, possibly with LV the Title Sponsor and RedBull involved too.

The first event will be in SF to coincide with OracleWorld, this October. Further events in 2019 will include (at minimum) Bermuda, Chicago, and SF again.

Rumored teams include Oracle, Artemis, GTF, a RedBull Team, and .... Alinghi! There was a possible sixth team mentioned but I forget who that was. edit: SBTJ maybe? Oracle will race 2 AC50’s and other teams may too. 

Yes, he said AC50’s not AC45F’s, and also suggested they will be both up-moded and made more evenly competitive. My guess is that AC45T’s will be part of the fleet to be upgraded, although TE suggested Alinghi is building theirs new.

RG was on the webinar too, I expect he will post his take on what he heard - which may vary a little.

Not this again...

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On 1/1/2018 at 7:58 PM, dogwatch said:

So they have set an entry opening date when the office is closed for 3 weeks. Hilariously inept. Can you imagine the reaction here if GGYC had done that?

Russell Green is copied on all entries. The timing is part of the penalty for aligning the dates with the calendar year. But everyone involved will be monitoring email even when on holiday. Can't see what the big deal is with this. It is not as though they are handing them over the counter in Reception at RNZYS and were there at 0001 on January 1, 2018 and there was no-one home.

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18 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Not this again...

TE said of what he’s now hearing something like ‘I wouldn’t bet my life on it. But I would bet the farm.’

He even suggested that all teams will have 2 AC50s each. He said “4, 5, maybe 6 teams. 10 to 12 AC50’s.”

If that happens, well we’re talking a massive chunk of change being dropped - probably by $Larry. 

If some of them are new builds, well the strictly-construction costs for this series could well exceed whatever the total build costs are for AC36.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

TE said of what he’s now hearing something like ‘I wouldn’t bet my life on it. But I would bet the farm.’

He even suggested that all teams will have 2 AC50s each. He said “4, 5, maybe 6 teams. 10 to 12 AC50’s.”

If that happens, well we’re talking a massive chunk of change being dropped - probably by $Larry. 

If some of them are new builds, well the strictly-construction costs for this series could well exceed whatever the total build costs are for AC36.

They wouldn't be able to use any video material, highlights or otherwise to promote the AC50's, and lets face it, they won't even be able to call them "AC50's" because that term will be copyright and Trademarked by now. Secondly, Does the sailing calendar really need ANOTHER foiling cat regatta, I mean, we already have the ESS and the GC32 series, as well as established Monohull regattas like the 52 Super Series and the RC44 circuit, not to mention the Americas Cup and another Olympic cycle fast approaching. The Volvo Ocean Race is looking at foiling mono's and Multi's as well. IMO something has to give. A two boat AC50 campaign will be extremely expensive, and it would be extremely hypocrtical to moan about the costs of the Americas Cup only to throw hundreds of millions at another regatta.

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21 minutes ago, sclarke said:

A two boat AC50 campaign will be extremely expensive

True, it’s why I wonder if it is really AC50’s.

But even if this will be (say) AC45F’s well then the teams list suggests a future path among teams and $B’s that ignores whatever gathering could happen in Auckland. There aren’t many sailing enthusiast $B’s the likes of LE, TT, and EB. Their motivations and big-money backed moves do matter.

IF some of this latest rumor is true, well then it’s likeky that you can kiss off Artemis, Alinghi, and obviously Oracle, as having any interest in spending any money or time in Auckland. Looks increasingly like just (yes ‘serious’) 3 Challengers down there. 

Will that still get some in the NZ public engaged, watching, and spending money to attend the event? Sure, why not.

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17 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

True, it’s why I wonder if it is really AC50’s.

But even if this will be (say) AC45F’s well then the teams list suggests a future path among teams and $B’s that ignores whatever gathering could happen in Auckland. There aren’t many sailing enthusiast $B’s the likes of LE, TT, and EB. Their motivations and big-money backed moves do matter.

IF some of this latest rumor is true, well then it’s likeky that you can kiss off Artemis, Alinghi, and obviously Oracle, as having any interest in spending any money or time in Auckland. Looks increasingly like just (yes ‘serious’) 3 Challengers down there. 

Its amazing that when the Framework was announced, everyone was saying how great the future is going to be, how the framework meant a sustainable future for the Americas Cup, how everyone was looking to the future of the Americas Cup, and now that the Kiwi's have won it, and announced a REVOLUTIONARY new boat concept, those same people have reduced the Americas Cup to "a gathering in Auckland". So when these billionaires talk about reducing costs and making the event cost effective, what they're really saying is "In actual fact, We don't give a shit about the costs, or how expensive it is, as long as its what we want. We don't wanna win it, because we can't, so we just want the winner to do what we want, because we're rich". 

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

But even if this will be (say) AC45F’s

If this happens it should not be AC45F or AC50 but new state of the art foiling catamaran, which means foils with elevators, flaps, automatic wand or manual control, perhaps soft sail, etc. A cheap but fast and fun boat, the best at this time.

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52 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Its amazing that when the Framework was announced, everyone was saying how great the future is going to be, how the framework meant a sustainable future for the Americas Cup, how everyone was looking to the future of the Americas Cup, and now that the Kiwi's have won it, and announced a REVOLUTIONARY new boat concept, those same people have reduced the Americas Cup to "a gathering in Auckland". So when these billionaires talk about reducing costs and making the event cost effective, what they're really saying is "In actual fact, We don't give a shit about the costs, or how expensive it is, as long as its what we want. We don't wanna win it, because we can't, so we just want the winner to do what we want, because we're rich". 

It could be that GD’s trashing of the Framework Agreement, signed by serious Billionaires, was a simply massive miscalculation. The vote was 5-1 with GD the outside, single spoiler - all due to the Devil with Prada pre-deal corruption, it seems. 

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22 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

If this happens it should not be AC45F or AC50 but new state of the art foiling catamaran, which means foils with elevators, flaps, automatic wand or manual control, perhaps soft sail, etc. A cheap but fast and fun boat, the best at this time.

Agreed, an update the AC50’s to leapfrog 1.0 and build an AC50 V2 of the Class could be very cool. Lots of key people during AC35 suggested they were all just scratching the surface, Ashby included. 

There could be some talent that gets committed if it happens; JS and who knows who-all else might be in big, exclusive demand by a few $B’s who don’t care for the new boat, for Auckland; or for the AC36 completely-bogus ‘back to the Deed’ but really just crudely commercially-driven crew-restrictions in the new Protocol. 

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Agreed, an update the AC50’s to leapfrog 1.0 and build an AC50 V2 of the Class could be very cool. Lots of key people during AC35 suggested they were all just scratching the surface, Ashby included. 

There could be some talent that gets committed if it happens; JS and who knows who-all else might be in big, exclusive demand by a few $B’s who don’t care for the new boat, for Auckland; or for the AC36 completely-bogus ‘back to the Deed’ but really just crudely commercially-driven crew-restrictions in the new Protocol. 

The Pinot noir has kicked in like a turbo on full boost...along with his mentor the snake oil salesman, they are now pitching lazza, his best bro the odious Ernie and the supersede each building two world super league of world 50' foilers, along with very competive frog and j teams...because everything about 36 is completely bogus...

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with spinbot being only 50 posts from achieving the gasp!..task of 50,000 posts in ac anarchy..25k cut and paste ear piss, 25k total bollocks...

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It could be that GD’s trashing of the Framework Agreement, signed by serious Billionaires, was a simply massive miscalculation. The vote was 5-1 with GD the outside, single spoiler - all due to the Devil with Prada pre-deal corruption, it seems. 

The framework deserved to be trashed. It was unnecessary, and contrary to the DoG. It was essentially saying, win or lose we'd like all you guys to continue our vision. Screw your own vision, ours is better, and is the only sustainable vision and the Americas Cup will not survive without it. 

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Having agreed with the previous two posts I'll add this: If Larry et al want to run their own series, front the $$$ all power to them.

If they  produce interesting boats with great racing I'll watch it :)

 

Just don't dare try to associate it with the AC or try to call it 'the alternative AC' <_<

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10 hours ago, robberzdog said:

Russell Green is copied on all entries. The timing is part of the penalty for aligning the dates with the calendar year. But everyone involved will be monitoring email even when on holiday. Can't see what the big deal is with this.

Basic PR fuck-up for sponsored teams. The entry and announcement should be a big fanfare synchronised event.

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32 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Basic PR fuck-up for sponsored teams. The entry and announcement should be a big fanfare synchronised event.

It is up to the teams not RNZYS if they want to announce they have entered or intend to enter. Everyone is now immune to the PR launch which is like the preview of a strip show. Much is promised, but the delivery is often disappointing. The joint announcement concept was done to death during the 2010-2017 period and no-one takes it too seriously, now. Actions carry far more weight than words and "we're gonna's....".

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2 hours ago, hoom said:

Having agreed with the previous two posts I'll add this: If Larry et al want to run their own series, front the $$$ all power to them.

If they  produce interesting boats with great racing I'll watch it :)

 

Just don't dare try to associate it with the AC or try to call it 'the alternative AC' <_<

They won't be allowed to use the "AC" prefix in the designation if their private series ever takes off..

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1 hour ago, robberzdog said:

 Everyone is now immune to the PR launch which is like the preview of a strip show. Much is promised, but the delivery is often disappointing. The joint announcement concept was done to death during the 2010-2017 period and no-one takes it too seriously, now.

I'm not too sure who those "everyone" and "no-ones" are. You seem to be extending your personal views to universal truth. Press certainly would cover a coordinated announcement.

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11 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It could be that GD’s trashing of the Framework Agreement, signed by serious Billionaires, was a simply massive miscalculation. The vote was 5-1 with GD the outside, single spoiler - all due to the Devil with Prada pre-deal corruption, it seems. 

"A simply massive miscalculation" is a good description.

"A slow motion train wreck" would be another.

The 50 foot cats were fantastic in the last cup and they can easily be improved upon. But the Kiwis have ignored the best thing about AC35 (the boats) and replaced it with this crazy science project that has zero chance of working.

Then they expect the challengers to waste hundreds of millions of dollars in AC36 just so they could save around 30M in AC35.

It would be much much cheaper to stump up the 30M and tell Luna Rossa to go fuck themselves.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Fireball said:

"A simply massive miscalculation" is a good description.

"A slow motion train wreck" would be another.

The 50 foot cats were fantastic in the last cup and they can easily be improved upon. But the Kiwis have ignored the best thing about AC35 (the boats) and replaced it with this crazy science project that has zero chance of working.

Then they expect the challengers to waste hundreds of millions of dollars in AC36 just so they could save around 30M in AC35.

It would be much much cheaper to stump up the 30M and tell Luna Rossa to go fuck themselves.

 

 

 

 

Even people like Grant Simmer (one of the most successful guys in the Americas Cup thinks the boats have huge potential (although conspiracy theorists think he's only saying that because he HAS to otherwise sponsors won't want to get involved) the boats will work, they will be spectacular, and the cats will be forgotten. The AC72's will always be remembered, and deservedly so. They were groundbreaking, but the AC50's, not so much. 

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2 hours ago, Fireball said:

replaced it with this crazy science project that has zero chance of working.
 

So Bernasconi, who seems not entirely talentless, has spent months modelling the JC75 with ETNZ's VPP, which seems not altogether useless, and concluded it will work. You, on the other hand, have concluded it will not. I guess in the absence of further information we will all have to make our own minds up on who is more likely to be right.

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11 hours ago, ro! said:

The Pinot noir has kicked in like a turbo on full boost...along with his mentor the snake oil salesman, they are now pitching lazza, his best bro the odious Ernie and the supersede each building two world super league of world 50' foilers, along with very competive frog and j teams...because everything about 36 is completely bogus...

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with spinbot being only 50 posts from achieving the gasp!..task of 50,000 posts in ac anarchy..25k cut and paste ear piss, 25k total bollocks...

Larry, Ernie holding hands and singing Kumbaya, perhaps?  The same Larry who wouldn't even spend any money on the TV package for the last America's Cup?

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, robberzdog said:

It is up to the teams not RNZYS if they want to announce they have entered or intend to enter. Everyone is now immune to the PR launch which is like the preview of a strip show. Much is promised, but the delivery is often disappointing. The joint announcement concept was done to death during the 2010-2017 period and no-one takes it too seriously, now. Actions carry far more weight than words and "we're gonna's....".

No, it is up to RNZYS per the recent Memorandum - but yes, after consultation with the team. edit: from here

After completing the examination of a Notice of Challenge and the supporting documents, RNZYS shall then advise the acceptance or refusal of the Notice of Challenge under Article 6.4 of
the Protocol. It shall also make a public announcement of acceptance after first consulting with the challenging yacht club and the Challenger of Record on the timing of that announcement.

Agreed that the concept was a bit 'done to death' in past AC's but a few of them were pretty good. RC and Fish attended the original Artemis Challenge announcement for example and TT spoke well of his hopes and motivations.

8 hours ago, hoom said:

Having agreed with the previous two posts I'll add this: If Larry et al want to run their own series, front the $$$ all power to them.

If they  produce interesting boats with great racing I'll watch it :)

 

Just don't dare try to associate it with the AC or try to call it 'the alternative AC' <_<

Bingo

We've seen the past reports and although I'm a little skeptical about the info TE is hearing, especially if it involves a fleet of updated and new AC50's, what he heard does add some detail like team names - information he wouldn't have just made up, TE having had nothing to do with AC35 or RC recently, and apparently no facts to report about the SF event other than the dates he had on a slide - October 28 to Nov 3. Those past reports included the suggestion that LE would be making a consideration near the end of the year; the timing of the new rumors therefore makes sense too; you'd have to think LE gave a Yes, to something, or the story would have disappeared instead of reappeared.

My guess is it will (unfortunately) involve just AC45F's given how easy that would be compared to the massive-effort AC50 V2 fleet alternative - which would be pretty awesome to watch in 20 knots of blow on SF Bay.

But as I've said many times before, if they felt they had to go 'mono' for AC36 well it's nare-impossible to top the JC75!

 

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18 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

TE said today in a ‘One Hears’ segment that the AC50 Series is a Go, possibly with LV the Title Sponsor and RedBull involved too.

The first event will be in SF to coincide with OracleWorld, this October. Further events in 2019 will include (at minimum) Bermuda, Chicago, and SF again.

There is a replay at this link and the segment begins somewhere around 38:00 (-10:00), it goes for about 4 minutes.

 

 

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Tom Erman speak about the „AC50“ and that „Oracle owns a whole bunch of it namely their 2 boats and the Japanese boats and the French boats...“

FWIW this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about. He clearly mixes up AC50s and AC45s. 

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So according to some. Larry is footing the bill for everything. All venues, all Teams, all boats, all crews , logistics and transportation,  any repair and modification bills, TV and internet  coverage, he's paying for it all. And he will do it just because he wants to and because he has the means. Come on people, billionaires don't get rich or stay rich by being stupid with their bank accounts. 

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30 minutes ago, Wolkenzug said:

Tom Erman speak about the „AC50“ and that „Oracle owns a whole bunch of it namely their 2 boats and the Japanese boats and the French boats...“

FWIW this guy doesn’t know what he is talking about. He clearly mixes up AC50s and AC45s. 

Yes, he did get a little off-course on boats, but:

I went back and re-read the earlier reports of this possible series. Most come from Oct 17, 18 and 19. RG did a radio interview with Mike Hoskins on the 18th, etc. All of those earlier articles including an even earlier one out of Bermuda did say they’d be AC50’s not AC45-anythings. If that’s the case then as TE did point out there are already some AC50 boats.

But that number would not include ETNZ’s which is destined for the AC Village in Auckland, leaving only 5 since only 6 have been built.

I contacted TE to ask if maybe they’d instead be AC45F’s and during a quick back n forth he included this, which makes a lot of sense:

Hard to go back to AC45Fs as something challenging after the 50s were used in the Cup. If they fix the controls systems and add some power the AC50s could be much better boats.

He then agreed with me that a key to knowing the scale of the effort may lie in what if anything Core Builders has/had in their pipeline. 

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Some rumored entries, from a Gtran at https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.giornaledellavela.com/news/2018/01/04/giovanni-ceccarelli-coppa-america/

Giovanni Ceccarelli and the America's Cup of the future: discovering the "monoscafi without bulb"

...

Less than three months are gone and then, by the end of March, we will know more about the new AC75 monohulls , flying monsters, which will be protagonists in the next America's Cup, the one that will be held in Auckland in 2021. Emirates Team New Zealand and Luna Rossa (in the role of Challenge of record) are defining the last details and the registration period of the challengers has officially opened: in addition to Luna Rossa the challenges of the Land Rover BAR and that of the New York Yacht Club are expected in the immediate future, already announced, but among the possible challengers remain Groupama and Artemis and news could soon come from Russia and China , as well as from Italy with another challenge that would be moving under track.

 

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IIRC Groupama is confirmed out. Maybe another TF sponsor might be in but not Groupama.

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41 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

IIRC Groupama is confirmed out. Maybe another TF sponsor might be in but not Groupama.

True. The Russia possibility is interesting though, in that it could relate to the rumored Sochi offer to host there.

Anyway, neat enough article for a slow news day, I will repost it in the other thread too.

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^Just wanted to post the same link, but spent about half an hour searching for the respective thread. To no avail, I must admit.
Isn't there a special discussion about this series without polluting others?

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40 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

^Just wanted to post the same link, but spent about half an hour searching for the respective thread. To no avail, I must admit.
Isn't there a special discussion about this series without polluting others?

Funny, took me a while to remember the thread too - even this latest one used.

I went with the 'Teams' thread recently just because most of the supposed-participants are (past) teams that are so familiar to us. If this series does get underway then perhaps it will need its own thread - and perhaps even in the Multihull forum. For now, while there are a few possible AC implications as RG suggests, there is still nothing official.

 

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What about posting the latest Billionaire rumour-regatta  in the "Super 12"s thread.

If you can't find it start one (not here) for the Cup of Spite - 'where AC has-beens meet'

If only these teams & principals behaved likes sportspersons  while they were cup holders - they wouldn't have to drop out the moment they lost control!?

 

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4 hours ago, nav said:

What about posting the latest Billionaire rumour-regatta  in the "Super 12"s thread.

12’s are mentioned at the end of this Gtran, almost suggesting it had been the alternative possibility proposed 

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://segelreporter.com/regatta/americas-cup-kommen-die-ac50-kats-zurueck-weltserie-mit-oracle-und-alinghi/&usg=ALkJrhhQoYto9T_OQrpDsKD_NKdlS3TCPw

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Speculation builds over rival series to America's Cup

Hints of a way to keep the remarkable cats active following Emirates Team New Zealand's win of the Auld Mug and decision to return to monohulls for 2021 first surfaced last October. ...

Team New Zealand will be confident that the history and intrigue of the America's Cup will keep it the premier event in the sport.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/100368494/speculation-builds-over-rival-series-to-americas-cup

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7 hours ago, nav said:

What about posting the latest Billionaire rumour-regatta  in the "Super 12"s thread.

If you can't find it start one (not here) for the Cup of Spite - 'where AC has-beens meet'

If only these teams & principals behaved likes sportspersons  while they were cup holders - they wouldn't have to drop out the moment they lost control!?

 

why not post it in the ":not going to happen" thread

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8 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

America's Cup: New AC50 World Series circuit resurfaces again

by Richard Gladwell

http://www.sail-world.com/news/200820/Americas-Cup--New-AC50-circuit-gets-more-airplay

Some decent enough material in that one. A couple nitpicks one could make too but especially this one: RG seems overly (to me) concerned about finances, for example:

New TV model essential
A significant difference between the two events will be in their approach to television, with the 36th America's Cup organisers committed to running a "free-to-air" model designed to attract the biggest possible viewing audience at the expense of some rights revenue.

Aside from Team France who’d likely get a free ride somehow plus their already-promised Norauto sailing campaigns support, the other mentioned teams are big-big-$B financed. It’s not clear why they’d care about TV exposure. Let alone about costs, even if it’s obviously less expensive than a full-blown AC36 Campaign.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

why not post it in the ":not going to happen" thread

I almost took the invitation from Rennmaus to start a dedicated thread, with a chronological list of the many articles, radio interviews, and the recent TE video. Had a bunch of URLs lined up. But until anything official is announced it’s still pretty speculative, as you suggest.

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7 hours ago, nav said:

Cup of Spite 

A thread title as retarded as that won’t get started, by me anyway. Alinghi, Red Bull and others already indulge in foiling multihulls and so this would be a perfectly natural up-progression. 

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