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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Enzedel92

Anyone heard from Deano??

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I suspect his AC career is over.

As much as I respect the man, he is covered with the stinky smell of failure that just won't wash off IMO.

At best, he will get to lead a team (unlikely I think) or perhaps a role such as ETNZ offered him.

But if I had to lay money down, I'd lay it down on him being sent to the knackers yard.

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I'd say Dalton is so clever he will bring him back in from the cold with a minor role. Would be a public relations hit and Barker is still seeking redemption which is a great motivator. He now has in-depth knowledge of how Oracle "go about things" so it could be beneficial. 

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The contrast between he and Ray Davies is interesting.  They both made some blunders in the early stages of AC34, and some of Davies' tactical calls arguably cost the Kiwis the chance of closing things out before OR found their legs.  They both faced a pretty similar fate in the aftermath of the SF meltdown I imagine.  DB decided to leave/was pushed out having not wanted to step aside gracefully and assume (what sounds like) a plum on shore role, while RD sucks it up and takes on a coaching role with a little bit of ACWS action mixed in while Burling and Tuke are on Olympic duty.  Barker becomes the what-if man, while it appears that Davies has grown in stature this Cup with the number of times the sailing crew referenced the work he and Murray Jones did.  Two very similar choices, two very different decisions with polar opposite outcomes.

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3 minutes ago, Larry Smellison said:

He now has in-depth knowledge of how Oracle "go about things" so it could be beneficial. 

If he knows how Oracle works, he won't be wasting time on the AC, there are hundreds of IT companies out there who are desperate to know how Oracle works.

And how to stop it fucking up their businesses.

Alas Tripod never really cut the mustard at the top level. 

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8 minutes ago, SENDITBOYS said:

Not sure why he took up that poisoned chalice in the first place. The guy probably just enjoys sailing?

Screen Shot 2017-06-28 at 9.58.08 AM.png

 

If you lived the last 15 years driving a AC boats, would you want to go out on San Francisco? 

He got a bunch of his loyal guys a job for two years. He got paid to do what he loves. And in hindsight, doesn't look like he helped Oracle much and perhaps help kick-start Nippon again. 

 

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1 hour ago, ezyb said:

The contrast between he and Ray Davies is interesting.  They both made some blunders in the early stages of AC34, and some of Davies' tactical calls arguably cost the Kiwis the chance of closing things out before OR found their legs.  They both faced a pretty similar fate in the aftermath of the SF meltdown I imagine.  DB decided to leave/was pushed out having not wanted to step aside gracefully and assume (what sounds like) a plum on shore role, while RD sucks it up and takes on a coaching role with a little bit of ACWS action mixed in while Burling and Tuke are on Olympic duty.  Barker becomes the what-if man, while it appears that Davies has grown in stature this Cup with the number of times the sailing crew referenced the work he and Murray Jones did.  Two very similar choices, two very different decisions with polar opposite outcomes.

It was slightly easier to retain Davies than Barker. One was being paid $1.5 million, the other $250k.

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1 hour ago, laser 173312 said:

If he knows how Oracle works, he won't be wasting time on the AC, there are hundreds of IT companies out there who are desperate to know how Oracle works.

And how to stop it fucking up their businesses.

Alas Tripod never really cut the mustard at the top level. 

HAHAHA-so true. This is a massive slap in the face for Oracle-especially given the amount of times Spitball told media his software was working or "had a software issue"--Nice way to slag off your bosses company !

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1 hour ago, ezyb said:

The contrast between he and Ray Davies is interesting.  They both made some blunders in the early stages of AC34, and some of Davies' tactical calls arguably cost the Kiwis the chance of closing things out before OR found their legs.  They both faced a pretty similar fate in the aftermath of the SF meltdown I imagine.  DB decided to leave/was pushed out having not wanted to step aside gracefully and assume (what sounds like) a plum on shore role, while RD sucks it up and takes on a coaching role with a little bit of ACWS action mixed in while Burling and Tuke are on Olympic duty.  Barker becomes the what-if man, while it appears that Davies has grown in stature this Cup with the number of times the sailing crew referenced the work he and Murray Jones did.  Two very similar choices, two very different decisions with polar opposite outcomes.

Was it common knowledge he was offered the high performance/coaching role woth ETNZ but released a statement saying he didnt think his time was up and wanted to still be a skipper.-But secretly Dalton had already signed up Burling .Either way he left ETNZ to work for the team that had torn his heart out.

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Quote

If he knows how Oracle works, he won't be wasting time on the AC, there are hundreds of IT companies out there who are desperate to know how Oracle works.

And how to stop it fucking up their businesses.

Had to wipe down my monitor :lol:

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see DB stay with OR-JPN, maybe without the OR.

Might be still at the wheel depending on what the boats are.

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15 minutes ago, hoom said:

Had to wipe down my monitor :lol:

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see DB stay with OR-JPN, maybe without the OR.

Might be still at the wheel depending on what the boats are.

Nah. Firstly I'd be surprised if Lazzas mate will continue without Lazza and I reckon Lazza will walk away. 

Deano seems a really nice bloke but he stepped in the shit pile of failure one too many times and now it's not washing off.

Like it or not he seems fragile under the high ball as opposed to Burling who practically needs an adrenaline injection in order to show up a pulse.

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6 hours ago, Larry Smellison said:

Was it common knowledge he was offered the high performance/coaching role woth ETNZ but released a statement saying he didnt think his time was up and wanted to still be a skipper.-But secretly Dalton had already signed up Burling .Either way he left ETNZ to work for the team that had torn his heart out.

As I recall it was common knowledge that Dalton signed the young Olympic hopefuls long before Barker left. It was a wise defensive move to nail down the new talent before they shone again in Rio and were headhunted. That's when the unseemly speculation began about his future role. There ires no definitive record of who said what to whom and when.  Barker was left saying he was still the skipper. The new crew roles were announced only after Barker walked. 

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14 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Nah. Firstly I'd be surprised if Lazzas mate will continue without Lazza and I reckon Lazza will walk away. 

Deano seems a really nice bloke but he stepped in the shit pile of failure one too many times and now it's not washing off.

Like it or not he seems fragile under the high ball as opposed to Burling who practically needs an adrenaline injection in order to show up a pulse.

Yeah/Nah!  Larry will be back but Coutts is moving on.

Who knows, Larry may kiss and make up with Dicko if the boat choice is a mono.

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Just now, KiwiJoker said:

Yeah/Nah!  Larry will be back but Coutts is moving one.

Who knows, Larry may kiss and make up with Dicko if the boat choice is a mono.

Nah, Dick has stepped in the same stinky pile as Deano. His AC career is long gone.

But seriously I just don't see Lazza coming back and I hope he doesn't. 

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Dean?...   star attraction in Worlds first " hall of shame" museum 

 

Dickson could be rhe next entrant then Rod Davis.

Amazing that Burling wins a olympic gold and AC in record timeand " overates" barker couldn't win a 1 horse race.

 

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10 hours ago, Larry Smellison said:

I'd say Dalton is so clever he will bring him back in from the cold with a minor role. Would be a public relations hit and Barker is still seeking redemption which is a great motivator. He now has in-depth knowledge of how Oracle "go about things" so it could be beneficial. 

ETNZ does not need to know how OTUSA "goes about things" since the way they go about things has ended in a dismal 8-1 failure. Better to use their own innovative thinking, no?

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Yeah/Nah!  Larry will be back but Coutts is moving on.

Who knows, Larry may kiss and make up with Dicko if the boat choice is a mono.

larry will be out.  there is no way oracle would cope not dictating the terms and controlling most  of the teams.  Coutts will play some roll in the event organisation i would say. 

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Deano called me today

He wanted to know whether he can mow my lawns.

I've got one of those flymo mowers and he thinks he could be good at it.

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14 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Deano called me today

He wanted to know whether he can mow my lawns.

I've got one of those flymo mowers and he thinks he could be good at it.

Deano can write his own ticket in things like TP52s in which he was a brilliantly competitive helmsman by any reckoning. I don't think we've seen the last of him in some sort of AC capacity but probably not on the wheel.

And he's a genuinely likeable bloke whose sailing credentials would put most to shame. Yes, he lost at the AC in San Fran 8-9 but Jimmy Shithill just lost in BDA 1-8. Puts it in some sort of perspective. I would much rather have a beer with Deano than Jimmy any day,, and I'm an Aussie.

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Just reading No excuse to loose where corners gets bought on to start with Ted Hood helping up wind and the last Cup winner doing down wind duties. Different times

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37 minutes ago, Last Post said:

Deano can write his own ticket in things like TP52s in which he was a brilliantly competitive helmsman by any reckoning. I don't think we've seen the last of him in some sort of AC capacity but probably not on the wheel.

And he's a genuinely likeable bloke whose sailing credentials would put most to shame. Yes, he lost at the AC in San Fran 8-9 but Jimmy Shithill just lost in BDA 1-8. Puts it in some sort of perspective. I would much rather have a beer with Deano than Jimmy any day,, and I'm an Aussie.

grate post

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1 minute ago, snaerk said:

grate post

Thanks snaerk, I get a little tired of ignorant pricks here continually regurgitating the "2013 choke" shit as though DB was the only one on the boat who had any input.For myself, I would rather go down in a series 8-9 than 1-8.

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Just now, Last Post said:

Thanks snaerk, I get a little tired of ignorant pricks here continually regurgitating the "2013 choke" shit as though DB was the only one on the boat who had any input.For myself, I would rather go down in a series 8-9 than 1-8.

Well sed. "Choking" is the politiks of envy, most offen, esp regarding a teknolojy contest. 

No way Barkerz folt that OR were kliming a higher, steeper hill from ferther down, while TNZ wer neer the top of thairz with no skyhooks in syt.

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2013 was unfortunate but his performance in this AC was very disappointing.  and chris draper.  what was it in the end.  lost 12/16 or something like that. 

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3 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

ETNZ does not need to know how OTUSA "goes about things" since the way they go about things has ended in a dismal 8-1 failure. Better to use their own innovative thinking, no?

+1

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2 hours ago, snaerk said:

grate post

I'm on the fence about this.

On the one hand I agree that there's a lot of cheap shots fired about 2013. My recollection is ORA having a faster boat in the end, but Barker still having much the better of the starts. (Must admit I can't bring myself to go back and rewatch anything - does anyone have those start stats?)

And this time he again looked great at the starts and had the SBTJ team had some really slick teamwork going. And he crushed it on the windy day, even with bits falling off the boat.

OTOH SBTJ did manage to lose a number of leads. It does make me re-evaluate 2013 a little. But then, who should we even point at, was Draper calling the strategy?

Anyway, I hope he made it over to the tent for a beer. I'd suspect he'll be a great asset as a senior off boat sailing team lead in the next cup. Not that he needs our sympathy of course, rock star TP52 helm, in our dreams.

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16 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

As I recall it was common knowledge that Dalton signed the young Olympic hopefuls long before Barker left. It was a wise defensive move to nail down the new talent before they shone again in Rio and were headhunted. That's when the unseemly speculation began about his future role. There ires no definitive record of who said what to whom and when.  Barker was left saying he was still the skipper. The new crew roles were announced only after Barker walked. 

"De Nora had an interesting twist on the decision to remove Barker from the wheel and suggested the Kiwi had shopped around when he realised his time was up.

Asked if Barker, who had lost his two previous Cup finals, was fired, de Nora shot back: "No, it is not what happened. He was never fired. We told him that we didn't want him as helmsman, but we wanted him to have another role, for instance, as a coach. He said that he wanted to be a helmsman.

"What didn't go well is that before leaving the team he already talked with others and he should have not said that we sent him away, when he was already looking for another job."

 

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/94204335/peter-burling-ordered-to-hide-his-starting-box-game-from-jimmy-spithill-before-final

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13 hours ago, Qman said:

2013 was unfortunate but his performance in this AC was very disappointing.  and chris draper.  what was it in the end.  lost 12/16 or something like that. 

Too many people focus on just the score line instead of on the details. 

SBTJ, with DB at the helm in more ways than one, beat a very-very respectable AR team 3 times in the Semi Finals. In big air, in spectacular conditions.

Disappointing? Hell no, it was an excellent performance against a team in AR that but for a f'd penalty call and a MOB may also have beaten ETNZ and been also up to beating OR in the light.

DB (yes with the tech help) did set up and run a highly effective team.

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10 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Too many people focus on just the score line instead of on the details. 

SBTJ, with DB at the helm in more ways than one, beat a very-very respectable AR team 3 times in the Semi Finals. In big air, in spectacular conditions.

Disappointing? Hell no, it was an excellent performance against a team in AR that but for a f'd penalty call and a MOB may also have beaten ETNZ and been also up to beating OR in the light.

DB (yes with the tech help) did set up and run a highly effective team.

The f'd penalty call was in the qualifiers. It played no part on ARs failure to beat ETNZ and reach the match.

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2 minutes ago, marlowe said:

The f'd penalty call was in the qualifiers. It played no part on ARs failure to beat ETNZ and reach the match.

+1

14 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Too many people focus on just the score line instead of on the details. 

SBTJ, with DB at the helm in more ways than one, beat a very-very respectable AR team 3 times in the Semi Finals. In big air, in spectacular conditions.

Disappointing? Hell no, it was an excellent performance against a team in AR that but for a f'd penalty call and a MOB may also have beaten ETNZ and been also up to beating OR in the light.

DB (yes with the tech help) did set up and run a highly effective team.

except for the score line??? what are you talking about.  its like saying they were faster, except they were slower.  sbtj where 4/6 teams, there went OK, but didnt convert results.   ART without mistakes would have been dangerous. but they did make mistakes so its irrelevant.  

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Oops, wrong race.

But the details do matter and as we saw in the Match in both AC34 and AC35 it only took a half knot of VMG difference overall for the scoreline to greatly exaggerate how tight the racing actually was. 

The AR v SBTJ series was dynamite. Brilliant racing by both teams, in almost brutally challenging conditions. 

 

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On 27/6/2017 at 11:44 PM, Larry Smellison said:

HAHAHA-so true. This is a massive slap in the face for Oracle-especially given the amount of times Spitball told media his software was working or "had a software issue"--Nice way to slag off your bosses company !

Good way to lose your job!

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Oops, wrong race.

But the details do matter and as we saw in the Match in both AC34 and AC35 it only took a half knot of VMG difference overall for the score line to greatly exaggerate how tight the racing actually was. 

The AR v SBTJ series was dynamite. Brilliant racing by both teams, in almost brutally challenging conditions. 

 

AR v SBTJ was indeed thrilling racing. 

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On 6/27/2017 at 3:44 PM, Larry Smellison said:

HAHAHA-so true. This is a massive slap in the face for Oracle-especially given the amount of times Spitball told media his software was working or "had a software issue"--Nice way to slag off your bosses company !

None of the custom onboard software would have been Oracle EBiz, it's a silly slap.

The OR design team did not anticipate that the 'manual input' spirit of the Rule could be stretched as far out as what ETNZ took it, into 'just drag a finger to match your dot to the autopilot,' and that made a big difference. 

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2 minutes ago, Paddywackery said:

I think DB will stay with SBTJ. 

I doubt there will be a SBTJ

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

None of the custom onboard software would have been Oracle EBiz, it's a silly slap.

most people don't know the difference between large corporate apps and lean embedded apps Stinger, so it will have stuck regardless of the accuracy.

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In light of what we now know about Oracle's accumulators (and assuming Japan's were very similar), Barker did pretty bloody well - he won most of his starts, kept ahead until the end of races (presumably only losing when lack of hydraulics prevented them from being competitive). Must've been bloody frustrating for Barker - a bit like watching watching Oracle run away with all those races 2013 again.

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3 minutes ago, KoW said:

In light of what we now know about Oracle's accumulators (and assuming Japan's were very similar), Barker did pretty bloody well - he won most of his starts, kept ahead until the end of races (presumably only losing when lack of hydraulics prevented them from being competitive). Must've been bloody frustrating for Barker - a bit like watching watching Oracle run away with all those races 2013 again.

you can't sugar coat it 3/10 in the qualifiers is crap, they won like a total of 5-6 races, out of 18 or something,  it was rubbish. 

if as they suggest had the same boat as OR who got 13/19 or something like that. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Qman said:

you can't sugar coat it 3/10 in the qualifiers is crap, they won like a total of 5-6 races, out of 18 or something,  it was rubbish. 

Unlike AC34, with TF excepted this group of Challengers was (relatively) extremely competitive.

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8 minutes ago, jaysper said:

most people don't know the difference between large corporate apps and lean embedded apps Stinger, so it will have stuck regardless of the accuracy.

Most people don't care about what 'stuck' about the software either, or if there even was any.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Most people don't care about what 'stuck' about the software either, or if there even was any.

Its worse than that, most people don't care about the AC in general.

In the "man about town" interviews they did with tourists hopping off the cruise liners, the majority of them didn't even know that Bermuda was hosting the AC.

Its a little sad for Bermuda although unsurprising. Suggestions that the AC is a top-tier sporting event is just ridiculous really. Sure, in NZ it is, but that's about it.

Can't see that ever changing either. As some of my friends state "Just a bunch of rich pricks in their boats", and they do have a point.

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9 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Unlike AC34, with TF excepted this group of Challengers was (relatively) extremely competitive.

and sbtj results were not significantly better than TF

 

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9 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Its worse than that, most people don't care about the AC in general.

In the "man about town" interviews they did with tourists hopping off the cruise liners, the majority of them didn't even know that Bermuda was hosting the AC.

Its a little sad for Bermuda although unsurprising. Suggestions that the AC is a top-tier sporting event is just ridiculous really. Sure, in NZ it is, but that's about it.

Can't see that ever changing either. As some of my friends state "Just a bunch of rich pricks in their boats", and they do have a point.

I remember a video posted by some site in NZ where they interviewed two guys in some big-box store and it was much the same. Both looked incredulous about the question of their possible interest in AC events, both tried reluctanty to play along anyway. It was actually quite funny, especially since the first guy had tattoos covering his entire 60+ yr old face. The second guy, probably 30'sh, looked blank-stare drugged out of his mind too.

Neither would have had any clue what Oracle was about, let alone 'software' of any other kind.

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21 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Good spotting. The article pretty much says that STJ will be in next time and DB wants to be part of it. He shouldn't helm the boat though - it's a younger guys game now.

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Dean Barker will probably end up helming a J for some rich owner, or pick up a gig in the RC44 or TP52 circuits.

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8 minutes ago, like said:

Good spotting. The article pretty much says that STJ will be in next time and DB wants to be part of it. He shouldn't helm the boat though - it's a younger guys game now.

Agree, they are in if the Prot isn't too thieverous.

In the recent Alinghi video, EB said about as much too. 'Let's see the rules first.'

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In cold reflection I think Dean Barker was a very good Helmsman. For most of his career he had the slower boat. In 2003, 2007 and 2013 his boat was slower. The fact that he won some races is to his credit. In 2013 he ended up facing a boat the could foil up wind. How is he ment to win facing that. 

In the end his time has run out. He is no longer a young man. Its clearly a younger person game. 

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

In cold reflection I think Dean Barker was a very good Helmsmen. 

Of course he was - that's why he won all those AC regattas going back to 2007.

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11 minutes ago, mako23 said:

In cold reflection I think Dean Barker was a very good Helmsman. For most of his career he had the slower boat. In 2003, 2007 and 2013 his boat was slower. The fact that he won some races is to his credit. In 2013 he ended up facing a boat the could foil up wind. How is he ment to win facing that. 

In the end his time has run out. He is no longer a young man. Its clearly a younger person game. 

I think he was good but possibly not great.  

Would he have beat oracle in the ETNZ this time around, Maybe.  

Would he have beat Artemis in the ETNZ boat this time around, i am not so sure.  it was much closer.  

Would he have been faster than jimmy in SF in the oracle boat.  Maybe?  

Would you back him to drive your tp52 to second place, no doubt.  

Like jimmy, dean never stood out in class sailing unlike many of the new breed.  PB, NO, BA, GS, GA, BT, etc all have top class wins in class sailing.  many with olympic medals.  Dean was never in that class.  I think he was 14 in fin at olympics?

 

 

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21 minutes ago, mako23 said:

In cold reflection I think Dean Barker was a very good Helmsman. For most of his career he had the slower boat. In 2003, 2007 and 2013 his boat was slower.

Yep, ETNZ having the slower boat to helm in 3 consecutive campaigns spanning 10 years can hardly be described as a problem of his own making. 

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, ETNZ having the slower boat to helm in 3 consecutive campaigns spanning 10 years can hardly be described as a problem of his own making. 

lol one of the strengths of this campaign was the communication loop between sailing team and in particularly GA and design.   there ability influence the design was very very importnat

 

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7 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, ETNZ having the slower boat to helm in 3 consecutive campaigns can hardly be described as a problem of his own making. 

Its ironic that ETNZ wins the AC in a competition that was in effect a one class design.  ETNZ never had the money to fight it with the big boys. Even when we one it this time, we had to get help from an italian Billionaire. Im sure they are very aware of these facts. They would be idiots to move away from a one class design. There budget will only be around a 100 million this time, thats including the govt throwing in 40 million 

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Its ironic that ETNZ wins the AC in a competition that was in effect a one class design.  ETNZ never had the money to fight it with the big boys. Even when we one it this time, we had to get help from an italian Billionaire. Im sure they are very aware of these facts. They would be idiots to move away from a one class design. 

5959e58b74bda_DaltsCup.jpg.7b70bd65e7c5071b2de97e2e176c1da2.jpg

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

I hope it was fumigated to remove the oracle fingerprints. 

Yep, from Coutts' and Jimmy's tears...

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37 minutes ago, mako23 said:

In cold reflection I think Dean Barker was a very good Helmsman. For most of his career he had the slower boat. In 2003, 2007 and 2013 his boat was slower. The fact that he won some races is to his credit. In 2013 he ended up facing a boat the could foil up wind. How is he ment to win facing that. 

In the end his time has run out. He is no longer a young man. Its clearly a younger person game. 

it is a pretty tough challis to hold though basically overseeing the dark years of AC for NZ and never reaping the reward. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Qman said:

I think he was good but possibly not great.  

Would he have beat oracle in the ETNZ this time around, Maybe.  

Would he have beat Artemis in the ETNZ boat this time around, i am not so sure.  it was much closer.  

Would he have been faster than jimmy in SF in the oracle boat.  Maybe?  

Would you back him to drive your tp52 to second place, no doubt.  

Like jimmy, dean never stood out in class sailing unlike many of the new breed.  PB, NO, BA, GS, GA, BT, etc all have top class wins in class sailing.  many with olympic medals.  Dean was never in that class.  I think he was 14 in fin at olympics?

 

 

This.  And I would add another "Would he", with a twist.

 

Would BURLING have beaten OR in the final races in AC34, after OR made their changes, in SFO?  I think not.  It was not that Deano choked, it was that suddenly he went from helming the faster boat to the slower boat.

My money would be that Deano would have taken this ETNZ boat to victory, too. 

All that being said, I believe Burling is now the better talent, and probably, too, that there quite a few better helms out there than Deano.  But "choker" he is not, in my eyes, and he is FAR better than a lot of folks around here make him out to be.

Right now, if I could chose any helms to drive my boat, it would be Burling, then Outteridge, then maybe Draper.

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2 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

This.  And I would add another "Would he", with a twist.

 

Would BURLING have beaten OR in the final races in AC34, after OR made their changes, in SFO?  I think not.  It was not that Deano choked, it was that suddenly he went from helming the faster boat to the slower boat.

My money would be that Deano would have taken this ETNZ boat to victory, too. 

All that being said, I believe Burling is now the better talent, and probably, too, that there quite a few better helms out there than Deano.  But "choker" he is not, in my eyes, and he is FAR better than a lot of folks around here make him out to be.

Right now, if I could chose any helms to drive my boat, it would be Burling, then Outteridge, then maybe Draper.

not sure, i am not sure that the almost capsize that marked the begining of the end might not have happened.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Qman said:

it is a pretty tough challis to hold though basically overseeing the dark years of AC for NZ and never reaping the reward. 

 

Nicely said, I guess DB biggest mistake was been born at the wrong time

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3 hours ago, mako23 said:

Nicely said, I guess DB biggest mistake was been born at the wrong time

Barker's problem is he is too nice to cut it in the cut-throat world of AC. Plus his lack of a technical or engineering background left him exposed to being single-skilled. He'd make a great helmsman for some rich owner's J or weekender 100-footer.

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Barker's He'd make a great helmsman for some rich owner's J or weekender 100-footer.

weekender 100-footer   going back twenty years ago that would be an amassing statement

The problem for the Americas cup is that the market place for monohull's is already crowded. Whats the point of having a supermaxi  Americas Cup when the Rolex cup covers that market place. The one aspect that the Americas cup can stay elite is in pure speed, and that means foiling. You need fast reactions in this game, which means youth. Dean Barker is 44 years old. No Formula 1 racers at that age, oldest at present is Kimi Räikkönen at 37. 

Spithill is 38

Ben Ainslee 40

Nathan Outteridge  31

Peter Burling 26

Dean Barker 44

Franck Cammas 44

maybe there needs to be an upper limit of 40 to race these boats........This would mean no Spithill...oh well health and safety is important 

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5 hours ago, mako23 said:

Nicely said, I guess DB biggest mistake was been born at the wrong time

Nope! ...  his father spoilt him and he wanted for nothing. He was a spoilt brat that threw tantrums if he did not get what he wanted. He knew the price of everything and the value of of nothing.

He never had to work for anything and deep down he lacks the confidence to be a winner.

His demeanor and posture reeks of " loser"...  it's not a waste of talent because he never was talented. .. he was just lucky that daddy had money.

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7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Agree, they are in if the Prot isn't too thieverous.

Bwa-hahahahahahahaha :lol:

 

 

Edit: lolololoolololololololololoolololololoolololoololoolololol

 

Edit2: aha ha ha hooo hah oh ho ho ho ho lol omg lol ahhhaahahahahahahahahahaha

 

Edit3: Wahaahaahahahahaahahaha

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If you put the world's 20 best sailors in a room, I think they'd agree among themselves that Dean belonged in there with him.  Maybe they'd agree he was in the top 10 at what he does, maybe not?  I don't think there's be much debate that Peter Burling, Glen Ashby, Nathan Outteridge would be fighting out the top couple of places.  Places in the last Moth worlds give a pretty good indication of where people are at at this level.  I'm impressed that as an older bugger, DB came in 31st.

What is needed in this AC game above all others, and the big thing sailors like Peter Burling, Glen Ashby, Russell Coutts in his time bring to an AC team is their technical ability - asking the right questions, making sure the engineers are looking at the right problems.  Sailors who are engineers, engineers who are sailors.  They don't just get given the fastest boat by and bunch of designers and told to go and sail it.  A huge part of what made NZ fast came from initial decisions pushed by GA.

It's what made Michael Schumacher so special in F1, he could get out of a car having done a high speed lap and be able to tell the engineers exactly what changes he wanted in the suspension, aerodynamics, he knew exactly how things interacted to make it possible to drive a car to the max.

DB is a top sailor, give him a fast boat and he's away, but he's never been at the absolute top of class racing, and doesn't have the technical ability to be involved at the design/performance level that people like GA, PB, RC can contribute.

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1 hour ago, Nausicaa said:

...

DB is a top sailor, give him a fast boat and he's away, but he's never been at the absolute top of class racing, and doesn't have the technical ability to be involved at the design/performance level that people like GA, PB, RC can contribute.

Precisely...

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15 hours ago, hoom said:

Bwahahaha.......

What do you take, from Deano's statement about SBTJ's possible future direction?

There's a slim (IMO) but possible chance of LE and TT and Myoshi going off and racing a NextGen AC50 Series, if GD's coming Prot reads to them like just some self-serving screwup. They absolutely do have that luxury, even EB went on to other sailing endeavors after 2010. 

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Haha. Stinger, what make you think the protocol will be a self serving screwup. Why are you harbouring such ill will?

Dalts has repeatedly made the point that it will be fair and specifically not favour the defender. Unlike the last couple protocols drafted by your lot. 

You need to take a deep breath bro. ETNZ are the good guys. You'll see shortly. 

I did enjoy those amazing 50s though. If they weren't so fragile, a series in them would be a great watch between cups. 

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On 29/06/2017 at 0:26 AM, jaysper said:

Its worse than that, most people don't care about the AC in general.

In the "man about town" interviews they did with tourists hopping off the cruise liners, the majority of them didn't even know that Bermuda was hosting the AC.

Its a little sad for Bermuda although unsurprising. Suggestions that the AC is a top-tier sporting event is just ridiculous really. Sure, in NZ it is, but that's about it.

Can't see that ever changing either. As some of my friends state "Just a bunch of rich pricks in their boats", and they do have a point.

Agreed, and well said.  Especially the last line, most people don't even know about it, or care. 

 

Its a a niche sport and always will be. 

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55 minutes ago, Costro said:

Haha. Stinger, what make you think the protocol will be a self serving screwup. Why are you harbouring such ill will?

Dalts has repeatedly made the point that it will be fair and specifically not favour the defender. Unlike the last couple protocols drafted by your lot. 

You need to take a deep breath bro. ETNZ are the good guys. You'll see shortly. 

Yep, hopefully we will see it soon and it'll be decent.

And yep, Dalton keeps promising that anything he does will be 'the right thing' but the statement is a bit disengenious since he is arguing that his decisions are necessarily 'right.' Protocols are 'furiously' debatable, every time!

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What do you take, from Deano's statement about SBTJ's possible future direction?

After operating as Orifice B team & willingly signing on for 10yrs of the Russ/Larryvision Framework I don't give a flying fuck what they say about anything.

They have proven themselves to be little bitches with 0 integrity & they'll do as they are told by the $$$.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Costro said:

...Why are you harbouring such ill will?....

Maybee its a kultewral thing.  

Like when Obama got served with all the saem insults heeped on Bush, even the wunz whitsh manifestly did not fit.
Az if supporterz kood think of no grater destiny beyond "now see how YOO lyk it!"

Tit for tat seemz to pass for fare play in thoze serkelz.

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10 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yep, hopefully we will see it soon and it'll be decent.

And yep, Dalton keeps promising that anything he does will be 'the right thing' but the statement is a bit disengenious since he is arguing that his decisions are necessarily 'right.' Protocols are 'furiously' debatable, every time!

One thing you can count on, the protocol will be written, and that's it. It will stand unchanged until the AC is won. 

That's about as fair as you can ask for in the AC. 

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12 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What do you take, from Deano's statement about SBTJ's possible future direction?

There's a slim (IMO) but possible chance of LE and TT and Myoshi going off and racing a NextGen AC50 Series, if GD's coming Prot reads to them like just some self-serving screwup. They absolutely do have that luxury, even EB went on to other sailing endeavors after 2010. 

The chance of LE etc starting their own little NextGen AC 50 circle jerk are slimmer than Jabba the Hutt thinking a salad would be a good choice for dinner. You come up with some good ideas at times but this would certainly be a reach around of the highest order.

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4 hours ago, Gissie said:

The chance of LE etc starting their own little NextGen AC 50 circle jerk are slimmer than Jabba the Hutt thinking a salad would be a good choice for dinner. You come up with some good ideas at times but this would certainly be a reach around of the highest order.

Wasn't my idea, the possibility was first mentioned by Luc Dubois, GTF.

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40 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

Nice thought, but Luc was with BAR.

Yes, should have been 'Bruno' Dubois.

Here's a Gtran re-post, bold mine

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=2&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.google.com/amp/www.letelegramme.fr/_amp/640/11575640.php&usg=ALkJrhjAdl4ItW76eu_H4KTIa24WaZHhpA

Is it going to be more complicated for you to leave? 

Yes and no. Yes, because it is annoying for Groupama, who made a big investment for a catamaran, the AC50, which is not worth much since Tuesday morning. But we have a meeting this Wednesday with the other four teams (note, without the New Zealanders of course) to see what we are going to do. We could very well decide to put our boats back on the road, to create events. And no, because if it's postponed to 2020-2021, it gives us time to put things back. Of course, he missed us money, but especially time to develop things.

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Why does this thread even exist?  Dean is a fucking loser. He failed New Zealand, tried to say Emirates Team New Zealand were cunts and then fucks off and joins up with the Oracle and their sock puppets. 

The guys a fucking loser and any of you cunts that support losers should think about changing your loser attitude. Dean needs to be put in a metaphorical sack with bricks and buffed in the river.

Forget the guy. He's a fucking loser.  

Now Jimmy, there's a winner...... 

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12 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Why does this thread even exist?  Dean is a fucking loser. He failed New Zealand, tried to say Emirates Team New Zealand were cunts and then fucks off and joins up with the Oracle and their sock puppets. 

The guys a fucking loser and any of you cunts that support losers should think about changing your loser attitude. Dean needs to be put in a metaphorical sack with bricks and buffed in the river.

Forget the guy. He's a fucking loser.  

Now Jimmy, there's a winner...... 

Holy fuck. You having a psychotic episode? You seem to be channeling trg and at least two other people right now. 

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1 Hour ago, Hoom said:

After operating as Orifice B team & willingly signing on for 10yrs of the Russ/Larryvision Framework I don't give a flying fuck what they say about anything.

They have proven themselves to be little bitches with 0 integrity & they'll do as they are told by the $$$.

 

"Little Bitches"  - I like that term

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GD expressly endorsed the Framework Agreement.

Aside from the 2 yr cycle he claimed he would be unable to pull off. Said it in the presser, following the win. Put him inside the group of 'little bitches' that you imagine if you like but to me, it suggests the agreement was overall a good AC team consensus.

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

Holy fuck. You having a psychotic episode? You seem to be channeling trg and at least two other people right now. 

Sometimes, when low on sugar, high on alcohol or just getting my troll on, I can channel the most elegant of assholes. In this instance, Graham. 

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5 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

GD expressly endorsed parts the Framework Agreement.

I fixed your quote for you so it was true. Much more than just the two year cycle wasn't supported by ETNZ.

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7 hours ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Why does this thread even exist?  Dean is a fucking loser. He failed New Zealand, tried to say Emirates Team New Zealand were cunts and then fucks off and joins up with the Oracle and their sock puppets. 

The guys a fucking loser and any of you cunts that support losers should think about changing your loser attitude. Dean needs to be put in a metaphorical sack with bricks and buffed in the river.

Forget the guy. He's a fucking loser.  

Now Jimmy, there's a winner...... 

Right up until that last line, I though t it was Grant Dalton talking....

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7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

GD expressly endorsed the Framework Agreement.

Jesus. And to think I'd thought people had been a bit hard with 'Spinbot'.

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Stingray woz hoo Shakespeer had in mind when he caem up with King Leer

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8 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

GD expressly endorsed the Framework Agreement.

 

No he did not. He did however say that teams needed stability and that AC36, included choice of boat, would be outlined within 2 weeks.

Dalton, your two weeks are now up.

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