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overdraft

VC Offshore vs Bottomkote

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Looking for some antifouling paint that won't slow me down (too much!)... I can't see any difference in the tech specs between VC Offshore and Fiberglass Bottomkote. My wallet, however can... VCO costs 50% more.... anyone know if it's worth the extra coin?

Anything else I should be looking at? (PNW)

Thanks!

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Try reading the labels again. 

The two products  are about as similar as latex and enamel

 

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well, they're both Antifouling that's non ablative, has a matte finish and is suitable for fiberglass boats in salt water, so I think they seem similar...

try reading the post again... I'm asking if there's much or any performance difference... the post doesn't read 'please make smartass comments'. If there's such an enormous difference that you are aware of, perhaps just tell me what it is as I asked? Or do you not really know and you're just saying this because the kool kids use offshore and you want to seem hip by recommending it? :)

 

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They are basically opposite ends of the bottom paint spectrum. Bottomkote is a basic, non-ablative antifouling that works, marginally, by being poisonous. VC Offshore has some biocides in it but is designed to work by being very slippery (it's teflon based), so as you sail along the growth (ostensibly) just washes off.

What kind of boat do you have and what do you use it for?

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Fareast 23R, racing... so Teflon and biocides... that'll make a difference, although they're both basically anti-slime measures and I'm scrubbing the bottom anyway... Thanks for the input Andy!

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Both contain about 40% Cu2O as the main toxin.

Growth, especially barnacles or mussels will not "wash off" VC OffShore, although some will come off I will grant that.  The type of bottom paints that will allegedly do this are referred to as "Foul Release" rather than anti-foulant. Intersleek is an example, but don't look for that at your local chandlery and is definitely not for the DIYer to apply.

VC Offshore has Teflon which should reduce friction.  It is also a harder paint and can be burnished to a smoother finish, which helps with friction too.

There is a reason a lot of racers use VC Offshore and Baltoplate.

Points against VC Offshore are it has fairly poor anti-fouling properties and needs to be scrubbed regularly, at least over here in Van.

Vic is a different story.  In Vic (not including Saanich/Sidney) fouling is quite light in my experience.

Another point against VC Offshore it is my understanding that Interlux no longer sells it into Canada, although I'm sure you can still find some on the shelves.  Although it is a fairly easy trip across the border if need be.  IMO, the paint with the best combination of hardness and anti-fouling (65% Cu2O) is Pettit Trinidad - although again, only available in USA and about as pricey as Offshore.

With a Fareast 23 you should probably look at dry-sailing it if possible.

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ya, if I was prepared to dry sail i'da just kept my Melges... I'm always freaked out about the border... you pay $300 for your gallon of paint, one day the border guy says welcome home to Canada, the next time he says lemme see that paint and confiscates it...

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It is highly unlikely Pettit will export the Black Widow to Canada since they won't export Trinidad.

It sounds like the Black Widow is similar to VC 17, which means it is totally unsuitable for salt water. Below is a link to some info about Black Widow

Very low copper load.

Bringing bottom paints and such across the border is generally no big deal.  Usually labelling issues that make it too costly to bring the product into such a small market. Generally okay to bring into Canada to use - but not to sell.

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good to know because I don't need a vc17 alternative... not workable for this part of the world!

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13 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Try reading the labels again. 

The two products  are about as similar as latex and enamel

 

 

11 hours ago, overdraft said:

well, they're both Antifouling that's non ablative, has a matte finish and is suitable for fiberglass boats in salt water, so I think they seem similar...

try reading the post again... I'm asking if there's much or any performance difference... the post doesn't read 'please make smartass comments'. If there's such an enormous difference that you are aware of, perhaps just tell me what it is as I asked? Or do you not really know and you're just saying this because the kool kids use offshore and you want to seem hip by recommending it? :)

 

Over,

This is Gouv's normal way of responding. Unfortunately, he is most often spot on ... as in this case. 

I have been using VC for ~35 years. Locally Inter has varied Cu content, sometime omitting it completely, but without informing of course, leading to disasterous results. Myself I have moved on to another brand (probably not available in neither US nor CA), compatible with VC - it was said. 

Moral of the story: one has to read the tin labels carefully. 

//J

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On 6/28/2017 at 7:09 PM, 12 metre said:

It is highly unlikely Pettit will export the Black Widow to Canada since they won't export Trinidad.

It sounds like the Black Widow is similar to VC 17, which means it is totally unsuitable for salt water. Below is a link to some info about Black Widow

 

  • Contains four slickening agents: Molybdenum Disulfide, PTFE, Graphite, and Silicon
  • Slickest, fastest, and easiest to clean racing paint
  • Provides high performance, multi season, dual biocide antifouling protection
  • Can be polished to a mirror-like finish


     
  • Black Widow is the slickest, fastest, ultra-smooth, burnishable racing finish available. Its powerful dual biocides provide multi-season protection in all waters. Black Widow is easily applied by roller, brush, or spray and is easily burnishable to a metallic “gun-metal” shine. 

    Black Widow makes an excellent paint for the bottom of any boat where speed is the number one priority, including racing sailboats, and high performance offshore powerboats. Black Widow contains four strong slickening agents: Molybdenum Disulfide, PTFE, Graphite and Silicon.

 

Nothing about FW only there.

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I use VC Offshore. Easy to apply and burnish it with bronze wool to a metallic luster and it will last you several years. I'm going to use it on my Fareast28R.

I've used Vivid on a number of boats and that works well...

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Had a chat last week with Marlene/Anne Arundel Dive Svc regarding Offshore vs. Black Widow.  She helped with some research on the Black Widow product and felt it performed well in Annapolis area as compared to Offshore/Baltoplate which is already banned in a few places and is likely to be discontinued in the next year or so.  The only hitch Marlene mentioned was that the Black Widow paint was extremely hard which made sanding difficult.  We've been a Baltoplate boat for many years and will buy up some supply for the next year or so as insurance, but the Black Widow stuff sounds like it will get as smooth as we want - at least 600 - and stay that way.  

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When I had in the water boats, I used VC Off in southern, high fouling, Chesapeake Bay waters...same as Voodoo. It goes on thin, hard as nails, burnishes to scary slippery, and as I indicated, very good antifouling, and the stuff on it came off easily with biweekly dives. I now use Vivid, but we dry sail and the boat only stays in the water up to 2 weeks. But, I'm impressed with its antifouling and I wet sand it with 600 so pretty slippery, although it is ablative. Doesn't necessarily help you here, but check out Vivid.

Cheers, Greg

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I've had BW on my J105 for a couple seasons now.  It's great when it's new .. very hard, slick and fast.  Boat is in the water the entire season and I have yet to get more than 1 full year out of a paint job without wearing through to the gelcoat.  From April through October, I'm racing at least 1/wk (with Wed nite races + weekends).

The antifouling properties are VERY good, but in the Chesapeake, we start getting slime in June.  I start-off diving every other week in April and then 1/wk in the summer months.

I was cleaning with a piece of oliphant burber carpet .. then moved to 3M white pads .. even that seemed too abrasive.

So I would agree that the paint seems to get softer after long periods in the water .. maybe the trick is to never use anything but a soft car-wash sponge.

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On 6/28/2017 at 6:43 PM, overdraft said:

oooOOOooo... Petit Black Widow... new for 2017! looks dabomb!

was gonna suggest you ditch the idea of offshore and try the black widow. Two seasons in and I love it.

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ryley, you've got 2 seasons on Black widow?

Does your boat stay in the water?  How often do you clean it and with what?

I'm on the decision of whether or not to stip the BW and go to Balto or VC-off .. but if I can topcoat the BW and get 2 seasons on it, that would be my preference, but so far it's not lasted longer than 1 yr.

Also, I think one more hit against BW is that it is .. well .. Black.  Once the Bay gets thick-blown with algae in the summer, it's very hard to distinguish between the slime and the paint (I dive my boat myself).

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28 minutes ago, Crescendo159 said:

ryley, you've got 2 seasons on Black widow?

Does your boat stay in the water?  How often do you clean it and with what?

I'm on the decision of whether or not to stip the BW and go to Balto or VC-off .. but if I can topcoat the BW and get 2 seasons on it, that would be my preference, but so far it's not lasted longer than 1 yr.

Also, I think one more hit against BW is that it is .. well .. Black.  Once the Bay gets thick-blown with algae in the summer, it's very hard to distinguish between the slime and the paint (I dive my boat myself).

I dive my boat myself too, and mine's at the mouth of the charles river, so I don't get black, but I do get green ;)

Part of the reason I went to BW was because I had VC on there and was getting tired of having to dive every week by the end of the year to knock off hard growth that was starting. My boat is in the water from about mid-May until mid-November. I liked that there was minimal prep on the VC to put the BW over it and if I have a complaint about the paint it's that it was really hard to mix.

In the past with the VC I usually start diving in mid-June after the jellyfish leave. Then it's every other week until about August, then it's just about every week and definitely before each major regatta. 

With BW, I never got out of the every other week cycle (except for wipedowns before major regattas). It never required much more than a wipe down with a terry towel to get the slime off. A few times toward the end of the season I used a white scotchbrite, and I did burn through the paint at the waterline, which was the only place I really had growth - a very fine green grass on the sunny side of the boat (did I mention the charles river? ;)).  I've been really impressed with it, but really my only racing bottom experience prior to BW was VC O, so I think Behr latex would look good in comparison ;)

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I decided to topcoat the Black Widow one more time and give it another try with only using terricloth to clean.  Maybe I've been too harsh.

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 6:43 PM, overdraft said:

oooOOOooo... Petit Black Widow... new for 2017! looks dabomb!

I'm currently painting Black Widow on my team's Evelyn 42. If any and all are interested, I'll let you know how it performs racing in the Chesapeake Bay.

As far as application goes, it goes on much thinner than the manufacturer says it will. They recommend foam rollers or no more than a 3/16" knap roller. We've switched to a 1/4" knap roller, and now it's going on well.

It's extremely hard stuff. Takes serious elbow grease to sand smooth.

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On 6/27/2017 at 4:24 PM, overdraft said:

Looking for some antifouling paint that won't slow me down (too much!)... I can't see any difference in the tech specs between VC Offshore and Fiberglass Bottomkote. My wallet, however can... VCO costs 50% more.... anyone know if it's worth the extra coin?

Anything else I should be looking at? (PNW)

Thanks!

Bottomkote is for dealers who want to slap a quick and dirty coat of paint on a boat they're selling  Or at least that's the only people I've seen use it, usually right after telling the bottom paint guy not to solvent wash/sand the bottom to save on labour.  The only thing I've seen cheaper(and worse) is bottomcote XXX(ablative) or some weird off brand stuff.  Where in the PNW are you?  I think I have a couple gallons left somewhere if you really want it and I can find them you can have them for free.   The owner of the shop I used to rent left the cans behind when he got out of the boat business... and he'd had them on the shelf for a while before that I think from the state of the cans.    I might have finally gotten around to throwing them in the garbage though, I have a vague memory of getting pissed off at them because my cabinet was full and no one would take it off my hands.   If it were me, I'd spring for something decent, paint is cheap relative to the hassle of it not working well/haul out/labour to redo it.

Bringing the paint across the border is a non-issue for personal use as far as I know, it's shipping it that's a problem(labeling issue and it's qualifed as a pesticide or something so needs to be shipped as dangerous goods?).  I know West Marine used to ship their cans up with the US labels, and a big box of Canadian labels with the pallet, the store was to stick them over the US labels to have the right words for Canada.   Also remember that they got in trouble at one store because technically someone certified for dangerous goods shipping was supposed to be packing it when they sent it out to customers. 

 

 

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