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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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On 6/29/2017 at 6:49 PM, jaysper said:

You're right they were cunts. But just because they were doesn't mEan you have to stoop to their shitty level.

I'd like to think our sports people are better than a bunch of ungracious picks.  Ashby and Burling were but Dalton was not. 

Oh just STFU and crawl back under your bridge!!

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2 hours ago, Indio said:

Oh just STFU and crawl back under your bridge!!

Hey queer cunt, you told me you put me on ignore - something I was very pleased about.

How about you actually do it, or is it just empty diarrhoea just like everything else that comes out of your mouth?

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

Hey queer cunt, you told me you put me on ignore - something I was very pleased about.

How about you actually do it, or is it just empty diarrhoea just like everything else that comes out of your mouth?

I'm going out on a limb here and call you Jason, 5' tall 110 kgs of lard, the guy who's the resident joke with Radio Sport who calls in about 20 times a day, who loves American sports, and has an ill-informed opinion on every sport on the planet that prompts him to call in to share it with everyone. Am I close? Go on, deny it!!:lol:

You're a pathological attention seeker who criticises high achievers in every sport to drag them down to your level of existence - one full of inadequacies and failures, compounded by the need to flagellate yourself for sexual release far too frequently.

Deny it - I dare you to!! :lol:

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3 minutes ago, Indio said:

I'm going out on a limb here and call you Jason, 5' tall 110 kgs of lard, the guy who's the resident joke with Radio Sport who calls in about 20 times a day, who loves American sports, and has an ill-informed opinion on every sport on the planet that prompts him to call in to share it with everyone. Am I close? Go on, deny it!!:lol:

You're a pathological attention seeker who criticises high achievers in every sport to drag them down to your level of existence - one full of inadequacies and failures, compounded by the need to flagellate yourself for sexual release far too frequently.

Deny it - I dare you to!! :lol:

Hahaha! Firstly, don't listen to radio - what is this, 1980?

Secondly, why am I not on ignore? Perhaps you're seeking my attention and approval? Poor wee dear, daddy didn't hug you enough when you were a little girl?  :lol:

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Just now, jaysper said:

Hahaha! Firstly, don't listen to radio - what is this, 1980?

Secondly, why am I not on ignore? Perhaps you're seeking my attention and approval? Poor wee dear, daddy didn't hug you enough when you were a little girl?  :lol:

I knew you'd deny it, Jason! "Don't listen to radio" :lol: that alone confirms it!! I took you off ignore now that the Cup has been won, Jason - and I didn't need to read any of your negative come-down-to-my-level posts.

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On 7/6/2017 at 8:47 PM, Ex-yachtie said:

Ha, ha. This plan would certainly settle the mono vs multi AC boat design debate. They could only race multihulls in the Manukau Harbour and then only when the tide's in. Typical bloody socialists, spending everyone else's money to engineer society to fit their repressive ideals, while totally ignoring reality.

"Affordable housing on the canals" for fuck's sake. Get a grip.

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Planning starts for America's Cup defence in Auckland

The America's Cup syndicates could based near the home of the Auld Mug at the New Zealand Yacht Squadron at Westhaven Marina under a plan presented to Auckland councillors.  Bernard Orsman

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11897761

Capture.PNG

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Option A is the one for me.  It has half a chance of being a permanent base for future cups and some public space in between.

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Auckland lobby group pitches America's Cup 2021 alternatives

A harbour lobby group that fought Auckland Council over extending the city's wharf now wants its support over the America's Cup. Simon Maude

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/95314464/auckland-lobby-group-pitches-americas-cup-2021-alternatives

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3 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Option A is the one for me.  It has half a chance of being a permanent base for future cups and some public space in between.

Say we get 12 challengers - what happens there? 

That is my issue with both of the Lobby Group proposals - they have 8 bases - so 7 challengers plus ETNZ. If we manage to get even 8 challengers its hard to expand their ideas to cover the extra base(s)

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22 minutes ago, ezyb said:

That Option A looks like a massive pain-in-the-ass to get to?

Would assume that its a team only area anyway but yes, a pain in the ass

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54 minutes ago, TimmyHate said:

Would assume that its a team only area anyway but yes, a pain in the ass

Not really, It's a pretty easy spot to drive to, well unless your driving an 18 wheeler with a 60 foot boat on the back of course...  Then yeah could be a bit of a pain in the ass.

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7 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Not really, It's a pretty easy spot to drive to, well unless your driving an 18 wheeler with a 60 foot boat on the back of course...  Then yeah could be a bit of a pain in the ass.

If it was to become a public access area they would need to massively overhaul the access - either you have to come down from Ponsonby via Curen  or via a single lane road from the bottom of Fanshawe. Unless you made Westhaven Drive a walking only road during the cup so you can do the dock outs with the public around.

 

If I had my way they'd use Captain Cook Wharf and Marsden wharf and use the cloud Wharf as the public area with a 'sail by' as the boats head out. 

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1 hour ago, TimmyHate said:

If it was to become a public access area they would need to massively overhaul the access - either you have to come down from Ponsonby via Curen  or via a single lane road from the bottom of Fanshawe. Unless you made Westhaven Drive a walking only road during the cup so you can do the dock outs with the public around.

 

If I had my way they'd use Captain Cook Wharf and Marsden wharf and use the cloud Wharf as the public area with a 'sail by' as the boats head out. 

Hmm yeah public access to dock out / in would not be that great from there, although there is the public wharf opposite to view from where the classics and the occasional super yacht park now.

I can't imagine them letting the public out onto the new extension though if that's where the team bases are, I would expect a security gate at the end and team personal only beyond that.

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On 02/08/2017 at 11:51 AM, TimmyHate said:

 

If I had my way they'd use Captain Cook Wharf and Marsden wharf and use the cloud Wharf as the public area with a 'sail by' as the boats head out. 

Yep - that would be my preference too. Close to existing bars and public facilities, easy access - and a good catalyst to get rid of the imported cars from such a prime spot. Just needs those fuckers from Ports of Auckland to let go of some of their precious real estate (which we all actually own)......

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On 7/6/2017 at 9:07 PM, damagesmith said:

Who ever drew this needs to be shot - what a fuck up.... 

Yes, the nativist style of illustration borders on the crude but in selling ideas you only need to set the scene and let imaginations take over. No need for firing squad.

This company and Architectus were the only two to emphasise the possibilities inherent in using the existing infrastructure at Wynyard Wharf.  There is already a bloody big parking lot in the middle section of the isthmus and some deft application of "move-money" and elbow twisting ought to accelerate clearing at at least some of the remaining tanks on the tank farm. Clear tanks and pave immediately.  Remediation can follow after the Cup and before the parks and apartments are built. Of course, if ETNZ successfully defends  .......

There's already an additional big piece of real estate that could be used and that's Brigham Street on the east side of the tank farm.  It currently serves only as weekday parking for 40 or 50 cars and for access at three points to the wharf. At its outer end it loops around, heading back into down on Hamer St.  Traffic is minuscule.  Shut down the portion flanking the wharf for 18 months and build a several new access  ramps between street and wharf. 

Every suggestion I've seen for bases plus docks completely ignores the space needed for housing syndicate operations. Wynyard Wharf and the adjacent areas are big enough, and empty enough and their use would not involve building new wharves, quays or reclaiming portions of the harbour.

598718307fb28_WynyardWharf.jpg.c389fc4d02065c11430ddfdf67ecc4e5.jpg

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^already earmarked for something far more important...condos.

As a dev for future generations this one would be good, and keep the marine industry in the area rather than give them ground floors on the condo's if they so desire which i believe is the current plan.

On 8/2/2017 at 11:51 AM, TimmyHate said:

If it was to become a public access area they would need to massively overhaul the access - either you have to come down from Ponsonby via Curen  or via a single lane road from the bottom of Fanshawe. Unless you made Westhaven Drive a walking only road during the cup so you can do the dock outs with the public around.

 

If I had my way they'd use Captain Cook Wharf and Marsden wharf and use the cloud Wharf as the public area with a 'sail by' as the boats head out. 

This is a good use of existing area, but is the cheap way out leaving no legacy. The cars will be back in the month after as we all know we need more room for cars.

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On ‎2‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 5:48 AM, Ex-yachtie said:

Option A is the one for me.  It has half a chance of being a permanent base for future cups and some public space in between.

alas option A would fit right in with that Auckland cities earlier wet dream of an arts/ artists enclave  and you'd have buckleys chance of moving such a precocious conglomerate of precious on should we actually win regardless of any promises leases etc,  as without regard to income generated  yachting is still despised by the great unwashed in the city of sails

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Option A is unlikely I reckon. If you assume 60 people per base with 8 bases that is near enough to 500 people. Can you see any parking there ? Also building it would displace the 4 or 5 hundred boats currently there on piles. (where all the budget boaties go) Where would they go ? Access to that area is by a narrow single lane road about a kilometre long > I can see the appeal of it there close to RNZYS etc but can't see it working, certainly not without a BIG shit fight

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How to transform Auckland's CBD for the America’s Cup: Architects weigh in

With the champagne no longer flowing and the celebrations winding down, the time has come to seriously consider Auckland’s prospects as the host city of the next America’s Cup. What needs to be done to its design to ensure the CBD is an exciting, innovative space for visitors to flock to from the world over? We reached out to several architecture and design firms to see if they had any ideas up their sleeve.

 

http://idealog.co.nz/design/2017/07/what-needs-change-should-auckland-host-americas-cup-architects-weigh

screen_shot_2017-07-13_at_4.21.19_pm_large.png

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Incredible.  So much looser-goosey design bullshit.  And I like and admire innovative design but, it has to be anchored in reality.

First, the carefully crafted Westhaven Pile Mooring Development, long in the making, has some real promise but now it is threatened by the AC proposals to extend the Westhaven breakwater and stick eight or ten AC bases at its end. Don't see much viability here for bases.  Area too tight, too small, as others have noted, and what's more the bases would be too far from the central waterfront.  So full steam ahead on the Pile Mooring Development but call bullshit on the AC plans for this corner of Westhaven.

The Auckland University "Idealog" concerts are so fruity that they legitimately cause one to question the purpose of higher education.

The only idea worth a second thought is the Peddlethorpe proposal from Richard Goldie. But he wants to annex the wharves currently used for unloading 250,000 cars and trucks annually in Auckland, and ignores the need for extra berthing for the growing number of mega cruise ship visitors. A laudable thought but these two vital economic activities eclipse the AC multiple times, year round, and annually, whats more!  Worth revisiting when the port shipping activities move to an alternate site outside Auckland in a few decades but for now, feh!

All proposals are fixated on dropping $100 million or more to remake a big chunk of the waterfront.  Why, fer chrissake!  

This is a glorious opportunity to "borrow" some or all of the tank farm and it's adjoining Wynyard Wharf for bases adjacent and linked to the existing Wynyard Quarter development.  It's set for parks and apartments anyway but not in the short term and only after removal of tanks and remediation. Seize the moment and accelerate planned change.  Buy out the leases. Short term, pave over the nasty stuff and provide big flat open areas for challengers to bring their temporary bases, work shops etc. Use Wynyard Wharf for cranes plus big floating pontoons for boat moorings. Shut down the little-used Brigham Street portion of the roads that loop around the end of the Tank Farm to create extra space and build a few temporary deck/bridges over to the wharf.

You want public viewing? Wynyard Wharf  flanks Halsey Wharf and the Events' Centre while its inboard end terminates at North Wharf and its new bar and restaurant complex.It's a five minute walk from the foot of Queen Street. North Wharf and the adjacent Queens Wharf restaurant strip are already Party Centrall on weekend nights. Revisit Te Wero Island at the front door of the Maritime Museum for a bigger, brighter better public stage and screen and official events base than the 2003 version.

Note:  At best this this is a one-Cup proposal. This approach will buy Auckland four years at a reasonable price, while advancing existing  long range development plans.  And it will buy time to plan long range infrastructure for the 2025 defence we all anticipate.

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On 06/08/2017 at 3:23 PM, KiwiJoker said:

. Wynyard Wharf and the adjacent areas are big enough, and empty enough and their use would not involve building new wharves, quays or reclaiming portions of the harbour.

598718307fb28_WynyardWharf.jpg.c389fc4d02065c11430ddfdf67ecc4e5.jpg

Its not only big enough. Its already 4 Americas Cup boats there already. Would be perfect for the start up teams as people talks about going back to monos. I mean boats are already there. Just put them in the water and sail like Team Japan did. What could go wrong.

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4 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Incredible.  So much looser-goosey design bullshit.  And I like and admire innovative design but, it has to be anchored in reality.

First, the carefully crafted Westhaven Pile Mooring Development, long in the making, has some real promise but now it is threatened by the AC proposals to extend the Westhaven breakwater and stick eight or ten AC bases at its end. Don't see much viability here for bases.  Area too tight, too small, as others have noted, and what's more the bases would be too far from the central waterfront.  So full steam ahead on the Pile Mooring Development but call bullshit on the AC plans for this corner of Westhaven.

The Auckland University "Idealog" concerts are so fruity that they legitimately cause one to question the purpose of higher education.

The only idea worth a second thought is the Peddlethorpe proposal from Richard Goldie. But he wants to annex the wharves currently used for unloading 250,000 cars and trucks annually in Auckland, and ignores the need for extra berthing for the growing number of mega cruise ship visitors. A laudable thought but these two vital economic activities eclipse the AC multiple times, year round, and annually, whats more!  Worth revisiting when the port shipping activities move to an alternate site outside Auckland in a few decades but for now, feh!

All proposals are fixated on dropping $100 million or more to remake a big chunk of the waterfront.  Why, fer chrissake!  

This is a glorious opportunity to "borrow" some or all of the tank farm and it's adjoining Wynyard Wharf for bases adjacent and linked to the existing Wynyard Quarter development.  It's set for parks and apartments anyway but not in the short term and only after removal of tanks and remediation. Seize the moment and accelerate planned change.  Buy out the leases. Short term, pave over the nasty stuff and provide big flat open areas for challengers to bring their temporary bases, work shops etc. Use Wynyard Wharf for cranes plus big floating pontoons for boat moorings. Shut down the little-used Brigham Street portion of the roads that loop around the end of the Tank Farm to create extra space and build a few temporary deck/bridges over to the wharf.

You want public viewing? Wynyard Wharf  flanks Halsey Wharf and the Events' Centre while its inboard end terminates at North Wharf and its new bar and restaurant complex.It's a five minute walk from the foot of Queen Street. North Wharf and the adjacent Queens Wharf restaurant strip are already Party Centrall on weekend nights. Revisit Te Wero Island at the front door of the Maritime Museum for a bigger, brighter better public stage and screen and official events base than the 2003 version.

Note:  At best this this is a one-Cup proposal. This approach will buy Auckland four years at a reasonable price, while advancing existing  long range development plans.  And it will buy time to plan long range infrastructure for the 2025 defence we all anticipate.

On the surface it seems a good idea but the real problem will be where are you going to move the tanks to and the service they provide to Auckland. Because you are dealing with dangerous goods there will be limited options available and when you have found an acceptable site the tank farm will have to be re-built before the existing facility can be dismantled thus causing further delays to the erecting of the AC venue.

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Indeed- the tank farm being currently in use would be a show-stopper. Funny shaped tanks you've got down there, BTW :D

 

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So, if they want the land for condos, why not build the condos with boat shops on the ground floor, parking above that, and condos above that.  That's a real mixed use, with the parking insulating the noise of the boat shops from the condo owners.

...and then rent/sell the condos to the sailors.

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1st time in this thread so I am not up on the current proposals, but what about here?

2iqde8.jpg

Nice pier being used for parking that happens to be next to a hub of tourism and across the street from the NZ Maritime School.  Seems like a good spot, or is it to close to the commercial piers?

Other than this, where Luna Rosa had their temporary base when they put their AC72 together is the only other place to make sense.  Where was that, that tank farm pier by the viaduct?   

WetHog  :ph34r:

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@WetHog Captain Cook wharf is used for unloading hundreds of thousands of Japanese (and other) vehicle imports (not really parking). While I agree it would be a perfect spot, finding a new home for the car importing would be difficult.

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1 hour ago, TimmyHate said:

@WetHog Captain Cook wharf is used for unloading hundreds of thousands of Japanese (and other) vehicle imports (not really parking). While I agree it would be a perfect spot, finding a new home for the car importing would be difficult.

Yeah seems dumb to think that was just parking in that location in retrospect.  Oh well.  

No other option it seems but by that tank farm.   I'd imagine that would be a tough job to clean up the tanks in a timely and financially friendly time frame in a place like nuclear free New Zealand, right?  

Would ETNZ/RNZYC allow lack of venue options dictate the type of boat?   OR proved team bases can be erected with a minimal footprint and infrastructure.  But only with boats designed to fit in sea containers.   A monohull won't work with that set up.  Oh wait, an RC44 does ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, TimmyHate said:

@WetHog Captain Cook wharf is used for unloading hundreds of thousands of Japanese (and other) vehicle imports (not really parking). While I agree it would be a perfect spot, finding a new home for the car importing would be difficult.

The main dificulty is the car transporters are drive on drive off so require a wharf that supports this activity if they were to be moved and you have to get them off as fast as possible so the parking literally has to be within a few minutes walk to be effective.

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Every time I visit Auckland I'm always staggered by how much prime real estate is taken up by the port.  You're literally surrounded by water but couldn't find anywhere better suited for offloading ugly ass container ships? :P

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20 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

On the surface it seems a good idea but the real problem will be where are you going to move the tanks to and the service they provide to Auckland. Because you are dealing with dangerous goods there will be limited options available and when you have found an acceptable site the tank farm will have to be re-built before the existing facility can be dismantled thus causing further delays to the erecting of the AC venue.

From the Auckland Council Planning Committee agenda, March 28, 2017:  "The “tank farm” leases expire in 2022/2025 enabling the next phase of development of Wynyard Quarter."

These are the remaining tanks on the farm and close to the end of their working lives. Likely a number are already retired. This has been an ongoing process for ten or 15 years or longer with more than one third of the tanks already gone.  There must be advanced planning and perhaps even construction in new locations.  Removal is already slated. Expedited removal would be faster and less expensive than planning, consenting and constructing some kind of new base for AC boats. 

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18 hours ago, ezyb said:

Every time I visit Auckland I'm always staggered by how much prime real estate is taken up by the port.  You're literally surrounded by water but couldn't find anywhere better suited for offloading ugly ass container ships? :P

Never thought about that, but its a good point. However where in the heck could it be put. 

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22 hours ago, TimmyHate said:

@WetHog Captain Cook wharf is used for unloading hundreds of thousands of Japanese (and other) vehicle imports (not really parking). While I agree it would be a perfect spot, finding a new home for the car importing would be difficult.

Marsden Point. They have plenty of petrol distilled right next door.

Edited by Sailbydate
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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Marsden Point. They have plenty of petrol distilled right next door.

Agree would be a good spot, but can see a couple of issues:

1) What percentage of the cars that arrive via Capt. Cook are for sale within the Auckland region?  Significant cost increase to import cars to Auckland

2) Extra petrol and emissions having to drive ~140km to get to Auckland

3) NIMBY's up that way would likely heavily oppose it 

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2 hours ago, TimmyHate said:

Agree would be a good spot, but can see a couple of issues:

1) What percentage of the cars that arrive via Capt. Cook are for sale within the Auckland region?  Significant cost increase to import cars to Auckland

2) Extra petrol and emissions having to drive ~140km to get to Auckland

3) NIMBY's up that way would likely heavily oppose it 

Dunno, TH.

Majority of cars would surely be for the Auckland region. The rest could go through, Tauranga, Wellington and Lyttleton. Seven-vehicle car transporters could take care of the road transport and extra emissions costs, especially when the Puhoi to Warkworth motorway is completed by 2021. Winston Firsts rail head to the Marsden Port might even be useful (but then rail is fucked as a viable freight option, so probably not). Whangarei would welcome the port development I'm pretty certain. There is even discussions afoot about encouraging Cruise Ships into the port (at Opua's and Auckland's expense, no doubt) so I think there would be plenty of local appetite for it. Water is pretty deep too, so that's not really an issue.

It would mean Northland and Auckland Regional Councils getting together on the the subject and that's probably why it won't work. Bunch of fucking numpty green pollies couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

Would sure solve the AC36 home-base problem though.

 

 

 

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it is my understanding that no petro chemicals are stored at the tank farm any more, just edible oils. The Awanuia serves the shipping industry from up north as does the pipeline from Marsden PT. Not to say that the Awanuia doesn't berth there from time to time, or shall we say, crash there :)

Disposing of the tanks has been put in the "too hard basket" due to contamination. And with the risks of property development at the moment it is a perfect time to take it back from the condo speculators. My bet is the Nats won't risk a controversial call on denying the land for AC even tho 8 outa 10 top campaign contributors are dev's and real estate co's ;) 

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Dunno, TH.

Majority of cars would surely be for the Auckland region. The rest could go through, Tauranga, Wellington and Lyttleton. Seven-vehicle car transporters could take care of the road transport and extra emissions costs, especially when the Puhoi to Warkworth motorway is completed by 2021. Winston Firsts rail head to the Marsden Port might even be useful (but then rail is fucked as a viable freight option, so probably not). Whangarei would welcome the port development I'm pretty certain. There is even discussions afoot about encouraging Cruise Ships into the port (at Opua's and Auckland's expense, no doubt) so I think there would be plenty of local appetite for it. Water is pretty deep too, so that's not really an issue.

It would mean Northland and Auckland Regional Councils getting together on the the subject and that's probably why it won't work. Bunch of fucking numpty green pollies couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery.

Would sure solve the AC36 home-base problem though.

 

 

 

I agree, if you could get decent rail (rail car transporters) there running on elect, have Ports of Auckland be a shareholder in the changes, and smash the councils heads together you solve 90% of the problems, turn an eye sore into a great future site (similar to the Viaduct last time) and have an awesome home for AC36 (and beyond...hopefully). So like you say; won't fucking happen. 

 

I think they need to get a group of us together to come up with a plan, with a ability to mandate change.....at council salary levels of course :lol:

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On 8/9/2017 at 10:56 AM, ezyb said:

Every time I visit Auckland I'm always staggered by how much prime real estate is taken up by the port.  You're literally surrounded by water but couldn't find anywhere better suited for offloading ugly ass container ships? :P

Problem is there isn't really.

Recent report on alternatives said: All alternatives are bad, extremely expensive, will hugely negatively impact the area.

This one was considered 'best'

SInmao9.png

Includes needing to build not just a huge artificial island & massive causeway but like 30km of motorway & rail...

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Hosting it in Wellington is the obvious answer then.

Although I don't fancy my rates going UP UP UP as a result of the inevitable gouging that ETNZ will give the host city.

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22 hours ago, TimmyHate said:

Agree would be a good spot, but can see a couple of issues:

1) What percentage of the cars that arrive via Capt. Cook are for sale within the Auckland region?  Significant cost increase to import cars to Auckland

2) Extra petrol and emissions having to drive ~140km to get to Auckland

3) NIMBY's up that way would likely heavily oppose it 

It's my understanding that a lot of the cars are simply unloaded for 24 hours and put back on the ship to other destinations as a tax dodge. 

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53 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

It's my understanding that a lot of the cars are simply unloaded for 24 hours and put back on the ship to other destinations as a tax dodge. 

Ports of Auckland are bound to have their filthy fingers all over that one, then. Not much chance of unpacking that.

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ok, firstly up the seaworthiness of the boats followed by bases at gulf harbour and a startline outside tiri giving a choice of marks ranging from sail rock to cow and calf which should result in a run and beat whatever direction the wind blows

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18 hours ago, hoom said:

Problem is there isn't really.

Recent report on alternatives said: All alternatives are bad, extremely expensive, will hugely negatively impact the area.

This one was considered 'best'

SInmao9.png

Includes needing to build not just a huge artificial island & massive causeway but like 30km of motorway & rail...

I think the "best" was what was originally planned for by the AHB which was pollen island filled in and whau creek dredged which had the potential to more than double berthage for Auckland, infrastructure / road/ rail is close at hand as well as the canal idea on a working scale, alas that'll never happen now that DOC has the island...

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I find it funny how the city grew up around the port.  All these people moved in knowing the port was there.  Now they want the port to fuck off.


If you wanted to be by the waterfront, why did you move in by the port in the first place? 

Plenty of other spots to choose from in Auckland with a much nicer bit of water... maybe even a beach!  The port is all on reclaimed land anyway.

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2 hours ago, 167149 said:

ok, firstly up the seaworthiness of the boats followed by bases at gulf harbour and a startline outside tiri giving a choice of marks ranging from sail rock to cow and calf which should result in a run and beat whatever direction the wind blows

Will never happen - they want it near the CBD to make it convenient for the visitors/fans to watch the racing and then hit the bars/restaurants. 

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1 hour ago, blackensign said:

I find it funny how the city grew up around the port.  All these people moved in knowing the port was there.  Now they want the port to fuck off.


If you wanted to be by the waterfront, why did you move in by the port in the first place? 

Plenty of other spots to choose from in Auckland with a much nicer bit of water... maybe even a beach!  The port is all on reclaimed land anyway.

The problem and most people's complaints are about not the port in it's current form, it's that it is now no longer big enough and requires expansion and it's current location means they want to expand further out into the harbour (well they could fill in Hudson bay / Orakei basin I guess).

It's already a pretty busy gnarly bit of water at the moment used by many more people than just the port, narrowing it further is not a great solution.

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1 hour ago, blackensign said:

I find it funny how the city grew up around the port.  All these people moved in knowing the port was there.  Now they want the port to fuck off.

You're not wrong.

 

3 hours ago, 167149 said:

pollen island filled in and whau creek dredged

Wow, I can't imagine container ships up there :blink:

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5 hours ago, 167149 said:

I think the "best" was what was originally planned for by the AHB which was pollen island filled in and whau creek dredged which had the potential to more than double berthage for Auckland, infrastructure / road/ rail is close at hand as well as the canal idea on a working scale, alas that'll never happen now that DOC has the island...

You sailed in this part of the Waitemata?  Quite shallow, no?

And as you say, an area where rare wading and other native birds exist close to the city. So forget that.

Also that would be a massive judge Dredge job.  Screw the environment?

So the course would be off Kauri Point and down around Watchman. And sailed in what many of the Xperts envisage/hope, deep draft 60 plus foot canters. Just a little bit bonkers in all directions simultaneously?

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3 minutes ago, Groucho Marx said:

You sailed in this part of the Waitemata?  Quite shallow, no?

And as you say, an area where rare wading and other native birds exist close to the city. So forget that.

Also that would be a massive judge Dredge job.  Screw the environment?

So the course would be off Kauri Point and down around Watchman. And sailed in what many of the Xperts envisage/hope, deep draft 60 plus foot canters. Just a little bit bonkers in all directions simultaneously?

ok you seem a little lost re relevance..... best was a referral to port expansion not as a race course , and once again thousands of birds hold millions of people to ransom and that expansion would be more of a massive reclaim than dredge, and did you really think that the harbour bridge was built so high just for the occasional sugar boat ?

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Whether dig up for upper harbour racing on in fill for shifted car imports, my preference is for maritime birds and wildlife ... and not another car park wasteland.

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8 hours ago, barfy said:

^ surf comp judges tower

Shoots, running the AC thru a surf break would be a great way to up up the level of excitement. Back in the day, the windsurfing surf slalom through mast high waves at Ho'okipa was frikken insane - imagine doing that in 72' foiling monos!

:lol:

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15 hours ago, surfsailor said:

Shoots, running the AC thru a surf break would be a great way to up up the level of excitement. Back in the day, the windsurfing surf slalom through mast high waves at Ho'okipa was frikken insane - imagine doing that in 72' foiling monos!

:lol:

Is the length of the AC foiling mono's official?
72 feet?

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40 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

No easy options for Auckland bases. 

The Auckland Council is going to have to get over its principles if it wants to keep the America's Cup in Auckland

Richard Gladwell

http://www.sail-world.com/157885/

This will be an interesting read

Next step is expected to be the drafting of a Host City Agreement by Emirates Team New Zealand and then negotiating with the Auckland Council.

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46 minutes ago, bostonspider said:

So when the AC gets moved to Italy, will we hear all the same moaning and groaning we heard when GGYC moved it to Bermuda?

No doubt the reasons for the move to Italy will be the same sound commercial reasons given for the move to BDA. Why should the noise level be any different?

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1 hour ago, bostonspider said:

So when the AC gets moved to Italy, will we hear all the same moaning and groaning we heard when GGYC moved it to Bermuda?

Why you no listen!

She's not going to Italy unless Akld is destroyed in an earthquake (or by Trump)

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14 minutes ago, chesirecat said:

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Italy-a-better-than-even-option-for-Cup-Defence-venue/157627

Today.

Any news from those parts re initiatives getting the Auckland base moving. Steering groups etc. 

That RG article was from Sep 29, he published another today that details what he thinks the 4 possible sites are and the pros and feasibilities of each.

I very much doubt it's happening yet but if time gets tight in Auckland then we could see a few reports out of Italy, for contingency planning. Palermo may be P$B's choice should it come down to that but it'd be interesting to see RG take his yellow crayon to Cagliari. LR will again be based on Molo Sabaudo (sp?) but that Port of Cagliari is fairly expansive in space also surrounding that big wharf.

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3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

LR will again be based on Molo Sabaudo (sp?) but that Port of Cagliari is fairly expansive in space also surrounding that big wharf.

Yup. In one of the Italian links you provided :D I read/heard that it would definitely be Cagliari (windier than Palermo), which would have been the sailing venue for Rome's canceled Olympic bid and already at that time it was determined that minimal work would have been needed. So, watch out AKL!

 

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25 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Yup. In one of the Italian links you provided :D I read/heard that it would definitely be Cagliari (windier than Palermo), which would have been the sailing venue for Rome's canceled Olympic bid and already at that time it was determined that minimal work would have been needed. So, watch out AKL!

 

Thanks, interesting to know Cagliari would be the default.

I zoomed in on Palermo and CVS recently and (not even thinking about wind) thought: Wow, nice place but Cagliari (actually also a pretty nice Italian place) has way, way more space!

edit: X, you are going to be increasingly important to all of us here, with your take on Italian language coverage - there will be molte tonnellate (? lol) coming down. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Thanks, interesting to know Cagliari would be the default.

I zoomed in on Palermo and CVS recently and (not even thinking about wind) thought: Wow, nice place but Cagliari (actually also a pretty nice Italian place) has way, way more space!

edit: X, you are going to be increasingly important to all of us here, with your take on Italian language coverage - there will be molte tonnellate (? lol) coming down. 

 

 

FYI ...in 1973 they held the World one ton cup in Puerto Cervo...(I know cause my Dad won it with Ted Hood!)

But back to Auckland... city council meeting on sept 5th 

 

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Auckland Council weighs five options for hosting 2021 America's Cup regatta

Craig Hoyle

Major changes are planned for Auckland's waterfront in the next few years as the city prepares to host the next America's Cup.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/98811942/auckland-to-consider-six-americas-cup-options

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Auckland Council plans team bases for 2021 America's Cup

Talks are underway to prepare Auckland to host the America's Cup in 2021, after it was revealed in September that plenty of work was needed to get the city regatta-ready.

(VIDEO)

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2017/11/auckland-council-plans-team-bases-for-2021-america-s-cup.html

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My preference would be Captain Cook West or the dispersed Halsey, Hobson & Wynyard.

 

Obvious issue with Captain Cook West is it blocks Queen East as cruise ship berth but while Captain Cook East allows cruise ships on Queen it blocks one of the main port piers.

 

The Halsey, Hobson & Wynyard one is a surprise & growing on me by the second.

While the base access is somewhat dispersed the bases are still physically close together & close to a bunch of the existing AC/post-AC waterfront upgrades, doesn't require huge new build even manages to make use of the existing Viaduct Basin.

Doesn't require kicking Tanks off their leases or huge remediation efforts, doesn't require the entire Wynyard pier to be rebuilt.

I think I'd dump the Hobson bit & put that extra base on Wynyard though.

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ETNZ is pressing for the Halsey Wharf extension and it’s for sure the nicest looking one. But the cost estimates that came out yesterday are roughly double the earlier $80-$100m estimates. The plans also look to have been scaled back from 10 to 8 bases, with only 5 of the 8 ‘full-sized.’

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from http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/larry-williams-drive/audio/phil-goff-council-set-to-vote-on-americas-cup-bases/

Goff said he's most in favour of a mix between Halsey Wharf, Hobson Wharf and Wynyard Point.

"It's cheaper, it's quicker to do, it's less intrusive to do, but it may not be something that Team New Zealand is ready to agree with."

Goff said he hopes Team New Zealand will be flexible on this, considering it's a lot of other people's money.

LISTEN TO PHIL GOFF TALK WITH LARRY WILLIAMS ABOVE

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

ETNZ is pressing for the Halsey Wharf extension and it’s for sure the nicest looking one. But the cost estimates that came out yesterday are roughly double the earlier $80-$100m estimates. The plans also look to have been scaled back from 10 to 8 bases, with only 5 of the 8 ‘full-sized.’

Since ETNZ can always do more with less, doubtless they will generously grant the full-sized bases to visiting teams. It would be rude not to.

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A base for the America’s Cup: where are the good options?

By Simon Wilson | Auckland Editor
November 14, 2017
 
Incredibly, as became clear in a media conference after the councillors had met, the officials believe only one of those five options is worth pursuing. That one is an extension of Halsey Wharf, a further 220 metres into the harbour. Halsey is the wharf on which the ANZ Viaduct Events Centre sits.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Since ETNZ can always do more with less, doubtless they will generously grant the full-sized bases to visiting teams. It would be rude not to.

As long as their parking spot is as far as from Ben's as possible...

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--

Team Bases Allocation - Team Bases shall be allocated applying the following order of priority :
a) the Defender;
b ) the Challenger of Record;
c) all the remaining Challengers in the order in which their challenges were accepted by RNZYS

 

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

--

Team Bases Allocation - Team Bases shall be allocated applying the following order of priority :
a) the Defender;
b ) the Challenger of Record;
c) all the remaining Challengers in the order in which their challenges were accepted by RNZYS
d) with the exclusion of BAR who can park wherever they can safely bring their boat to a rest

 

Fair enough I suppose, provides some impetus for challengers to get their entry in asap

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12 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Fair enough I suppose, provides some impetus for challengers to get their entry in asap

Yes, fair enough.

Like McFadden points out though, not knowing the number of Challengers greatly complicates the planning. While they are very well-financed, there are only the 3 committed so far. Planning before actually knowing is one reason they might argue to bite the bullet and do the big Halsey extension, for just in case there are more coming in this or a future Defense.

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