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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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2 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Minister David Parker's half-arsed ramblings to the media have done nothing to advance enlightenment. Indeed it appears he's using his time with the media to put pressure on ETNZ to fall into line.

There's a high stakes poker game being played out here out of public view and we're going to learn sweet bugger-alll from media know-nothings in search of their next grabber headline.

Hold your ground Steve, Grant and Kevin!

A high stakes poker game for what? A Bermuda-style $15M kick-in to the new Prada/ACEA operation?

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From http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11948063

America's Cup: Team NZ not scouting other locations

Team New Zealand has confirmed overseas interest in hosting the next event – but says it isn't "actively scouting" other locations.

The Herald on Sunday has revealed Team NZ are being wooed by backers in the Middle East prepared to offer up to US$80 million to take the regatta away from New Zealand.

Negotiations are ongoing between TNZ and the Government, including on a multi-million dollar hosting fee that the team wants for agreeing to hold the Cup in Auckland.

A Team NZ spokesman responded to the Herald on Sunday story with a statement that said it was not actively scouting other locations.

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"But there has been overseas interest that have presented themselves but we reconfirm our desire to host the Americas Cup in New Zealand and we are making good progress with both council and government."

The negotiations over money have seen British sailing legend Ben Ainslie weigh in, saying it would be both astonishing and a huge shame if the 2021 event wasn't staged in New Zealand.

"The history of support for the event in Auckland and New Zealand...it would be an amazing event and a real shame if that didn't go ahead," Ainslie told Newstalk ZB.

The Herald on Sunday has learned Team New Zealand top brass are looking at a raft of other possible destinations, including Sochi, in Russia, and Abu Dhabi.

And it's understood the syndicate could receive up to US$80m (NZ$116m) from a potential hosting deal in Abu Dhabi.

Government Minister David Parker yesterday confirmed the demand for a hosting fee, admitting Auckland was "not in the bag" - and he said he was aware of interest from other potential hosts.

...

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"Most of the potential teams were expecting something less radical and more within their comfort zone."

I'm not sure why. The direction towards a very high performance boat was signalled pretty strongly.

"Defenders 2 Challengers nil" is a rather narrow view of what is being played out. If ETNZ wants a nice fat hosting fee, they need to deliver a significant number of challengers to Auckland as that's what drives the economic case. Yet the class proposed guarantees that isn't going to happen. A lack of joined-up thinking is being demonstrated.

Personally, I'm just fine with the AC75 class. For shits and giggles and so long as nobody gets killed, it's perfection. If NYYC, LR and LRBAR turn out to be the only challengers, which appears a distinct possibility, then even the most one-eyed Kiwi fanboys may finally wake up to the fact that it isn't 2003 any more. If Auckland calls Dalton's bluff and he takes his micro-circus to Abu Dhabi or Sochi, that would be even funnier. Bring it on.

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21 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

If Auckland calls Dalton's bluff and he takes his micro-circus to Abu Dhabi or Sochi, that would be even funnier. Bring it on.

Agree the rest too but ^ since GD has been taking tens of millions of NZ taxpayer money to help fund ETNZ (money that the likes of $B MdN therefore don’t have to) well it sure looks at least ‘uncomfortable’ to now be threatening to take it elsewhere.

NZ taxpayers have given tens of millions to the team over the past decade accompanied by a selling of nationalistic fervor as the reason; so it’d be basically the end of it if ETNZ goes elsewhere after being offered $150M+ (!) of space to hold the event in Auckland. They may as well convert to Emerati’s and then get richer while flying that flag instead.

This Abu Dhabi thing is a terrible PR move, I wonder who leaked it? It may be the team, but it also may not. Would be interesting to know how that number even started but it’s been reported that the first stop the team made on the way back from Bermuda was UAE, photos included,  so perhaps it is there where that number  originally came up?

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I am getting fucking sick of this bullshit.

 

All these people uncritically opining about the lost 'village' of the Halsey option.

They are flat out wrong, it would have created a gated community with the public locked out looking at the ugly backs of bases.

fdQYprz.jpg

This is not a legacy its a fucking Waterworld set.

14_Atoll.jpg

Tankfarm is more attractive than this would have been.

The AC, TNZ, Auckland, the sailing world dodged a bullet with this shitty piece of trash being dumped.

 

HHW fully utilises the existing public areas, creates the real village environment, adds an extra ~50% to the existing Viaduct enclosed area AND its cheaper, quicker to build as well as scalable.

These hacks need to get their head out of their asses and have a proper think about what they're advocating.

 

Unless this 'hosting fee' goes to running the event & includes a bunch of event running/related stuff Govt & Council were already starting to budget for & include in their cost estimates then yes TNZ can 'get stuffed' if they want some high-double digit millions.

Yes they fucking do owe NZ & Auckland. They owe us fuckloads. They would have died off long ago if not for public money that other teams don't get.

They are not the owners of the AC, they are the representatives of the RNZYS HQed in Westhaven marina in Auckland & they better fucking remember it.

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^ Tell us how you really feel! :)

Agreed. The HHW arrangement is very fan friendly and that’s who’s being asked to put out all these tens of millions.

Halsey would have greatly benefitted a few rich maritime/superyacht outfitters like Busfield but the public good actually has prevailed.

ETNZ can make no reasonable claim for much beyond all that, the team almost won AC34 and then did win AC35 with only a $5M chip-in. Let the private interests and sponsors run the dang thing if it’s so supposedly lucrative, let them reap the so-called 5-1 investment rewards that accrue to mostly just themselves.

Few teams, and so probably few super yachts, look to be down there anyway. Some money will be spent/redirected into the AC36 coffers by locals, on this instead of on on other things, with not much of a net gain from outside especially if whoever shows, shows up late due to the imposed nationality restrictions, the required-entry ACWS events in Europe, and the opposite-hemisphere weather.

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33 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Halsey would have greatly benefitted a few rich maritime/superyacht outfitters like Busfield but the public good actually has prevailed.

Its worth noting that the Council documents said something like 120 superyachts visited for the 2003 AC so its not like we'll have to turn down 80 visits & HHW actually significantly expands superyacht berthing capacity.

There seems to be a lot of people forgetting that the Viaduct basin which hosted superyachts last time still exists & still can berth superyachts.

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Economists have long struggled to explain why countries would rationally want to host large-scale sporting events. Andrew Rose, of Berkeley University, and Mark Spiegel, of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco, concluded last year that hosting "mega" events gives off a signal of national confidence. 

And this signal is noticed. There is a correlation between bidding for mega sporting events and a boost in international trade. But, after examining the expenses incurred by host countries, they described this signal in an otherwise dry academic paper as "burning money". 
 

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12 minutes ago, hoom said:

Its worth noting that the Council documents said something like 120 superyachts visited for the 2003 AC so its not like we'll have to turn down 80 visits & HHW actually significantly expands superyacht berthing capacity.

There seems to be a lot of people forgetting that the Viaduct basin which hosted superyachts last time still exists & still can berth superyachts.

Shrug. Why not let those business owners take the gamble and chip in on the lucrative SY profits they are imagining?

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Shrug. Why not let those business owners take the gamble and chip in on the lucrative SY profits they are imagining?

Agreed. The city needs sort areas for the bases and stump up the hosting fee. Everything else can be done by businesses. If they dont fund it well then I guess it ain't such a great idea huh?

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Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about Govt & Council putting in enough $$$ to make sure its a great event.

It just happens that the cheapest of the short-list is also going to give the best atmosphere & I'm fucked off that TNZ/media ppl can't see that.

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7 minutes ago, hoom said:

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about Govt & Council putting in enough $$$ to make sure its a great event.

It just happens that the cheapest of the short-list is also going to give the best atmosphere & I'm fucked off that TNZ/media ppl can't see that.

My guess is that extracting berth fees from SY’s was somehow part of Shoe’s funding plan. The Halsey option accommodated a bunch of that possible traffic.

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14 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

My guess is that extracting fees from SY’s was somehow part of Shoe’s funding plan. The Halsey option accommodated a bunch of that.

I cannot see the income stream generated by hosting super yachts finding its way onto a ETNZ balance sheet.

Berthage fees would surely go directly to Auckland City which supplied the infrastructure.

The more this circus explodes onto and into the public purse ETNZ should remember that they would have ceased to exist if it had not previously received large wads of public dosh.

ETNZ ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country.

Throttle back the excessive demands for the hosting fee, withdraw the empty posturing threat to throw the toys out of the cot and relocate the event to Siberia and the storm will pass and the sun will shine.

 

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27 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

I cannot see the income stream generated by hosting super yachts finding its way onto a ETNZ balance sheet.

Am a little confused by this too but since ETNZ is trying to make a big deal of it there must be a tie-in, somehow.

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Check out this story from the NZ Herald Android App

http://nzh.tw/11948148

Typical double speak nat..dont let goff off the hook...never actually quoted...and etnz owes nz.

Same drumbeating the press did half way thru last cycle when the political hacks dumped the team...they and everyone else sang pretty loud at the parade.

Hold fast GD

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10 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Agree the rest too but ^ since GD has been taking tens of millions of NZ taxpayer money to help fund ETNZ (money that the likes of $B MdN therefore don’t have to) well it sure looks at least ‘uncomfortable’ to now be threatening to take it elsewhere.

NZ taxpayers have given tens of millions to the team over the past decade accompanied by a selling of nationalistic fervor as the reason; so it’d be basically the end of it if ETNZ goes elsewhere after being offered $150M+ (!) of space to hold the event in Auckland. They may as well convert to Emerati’s and then get richer while flying that flag instead.

This Abu Dhabi thing is a terrible PR move, I wonder who leaked it? It may be the team, but it also may not. Would be interesting to know how that number even started but it’s been reported that the first stop the team made on the way back from Bermuda was UAE, photos included,  so perhaps it is there where that number  originally came up?

Leaked or invented?

(Haven't followed closely, hence I cannot judge whether it was discussed in reality, or a proposal was just made up by someone.)

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5 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

Leaked or invented?

(Haven't followed closely, hence I cannot judge whether it was discussed in reality, or a proposal was just made up by someone.)

From http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/veitch-on-sport/audio/david-parker-on-americas-cup-talks-progressing-though-its-not-a-done-deal/

Also, news out of Team NZ that this deal is nowhere near done, they want a hosting fee for the cup and they also want a legacy base that will not disappear if the cup leaves NZ. They have strong offers from overseas investors to take the cup off shore.

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' This 'hypothetical hosting fee', does it (hypothetically) go to the team to fund their defence - or to the event organiser to be spent on ...well the event?

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50 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

From http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/veitch-on-sport/audio/david-parker-on-americas-cup-talks-progressing-though-its-not-a-done-deal/

Also, news out of Team NZ that this deal is nowhere near done, they want a hosting fee for the cup and they also want a legacy base that will not disappear if the cup leaves NZ. They have strong offers from overseas investors to take the cup off shore.

Given that the NZ Government contributed very little to the winning of the cup, it should be a little surprise that they should be expected to contribute MORE to the hosting of the cup.

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1 hour ago, nav said:

' This 'hypothetical hosting fee', does it (hypothetically) go to the team to fund their defence - or to the event organiser to be spent on ...well the event?

This. Plus, I don't remember the details, but didn't the Team receive a substantial state contribution prior to AC34?

 

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1 hour ago, nav said:

' This 'hypothetical hosting fee', does it (hypothetically) go to the team to fund their defence - or to the event organiser to be spent on ...well the event?

Good question.

If like with the Bermuda host fee paid it goes toward ACEA’s running of the event, then it may not need to be all that much; perhaps even through privately (sponsored) funding - the likes of PRADA included.

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2 minutes ago, Xlot said:

This. Plus, I don't remember the details, but didn't the Team receive a substantial state contribution prior to AC34?

 

Yes, after AC32 they received NZ$38M. And then $5M towards AC34, none for AC35 (which they won anyway), and $5M already so far in AC36.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yes, after AC32 they received NZ$38M. And then $5M towards AC34, none for AC35 (which they won anyway), and $5M already so far in AC36.

So, what's the big fuss about?

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13 minutes ago, Xlot said:

So, what's the big fuss about?

Part of it may be the implied threat that some are seeing and writing about, given the supposed NZ$116M offer from Abu Dhabi that came to light yesterday. If they are looking for figures that big out of a host fee, well geez - what on earth would it be spent on? Gold-plating of the foils?

My guess is that since PRADA is on the hook for running all of the ACWS series plus the however-long Challengers Series, that they’re wanting a big slice of govt money too, so they themselves can spend less of their own money. They could be pressing hard on that, through ETNZ who apparently have their own agendas too - perhaps including the construction of a big, new, permanent base on land also given to them.

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Audio http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/americas-cup-team-nz-would-lose-support-if-defence-taken-offshore/

America's cup: Team NZ would lose support if defence taken offshore

 
Monday, 27 November 2017, 8:08AM
 
 
Former Auckland councillor Scott Milne says Team NZ can't afford to take their defence overseas.

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21 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

This is all a high stakes game of chicken.

ETNZ can't afford to host overseas because of loss of public support and the cost of defending away from home.

The Government and Council can't afford for it to be hosted overseas because the next elections will be a total blood bath.

I believe that the Government and Council will blink first because the disaster for them would be more immediate than for ETNZ and more people would blame the Government/Council because ETNZ are winners and stated a preference for Auckland all along only for the other side "to fuck it all up".

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53 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

My guess is that since PRADA is on the hook for running all of the ACWS series plus the however-long Challengers Series, that they’re wanting a big slice of govt money too, so they themselves can spend less of their own money. 

That should be a different story: aren't other Challengers supposed to chip in? In fact. BA's "clarification request" concerned the large amount foreseen in the Prot, and it could be an open-ended commitment

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16 minutes ago, Xlot said:

That should be a different story: aren't other Challengers supposed to chip in? In fact. BA's "clarification request" concerned the large amount foreseen in the Prot, and it could be an open-ended commitment

Yes, that’s true but it’s not clear how much Prada is tasked with above and beyond what they can make Challengers pay for. And the CSS could be a largish affair too.

BA was being careful but he hinted at concerns about the danger of the historically close-cooperating current Def and CoR making rules that hurt other Challs - since they appear powerless to prevent it. That could extend to financial issues too - beyond the Class Rule which he also alluded to.

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19 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Audio

Bill McKay looks at arguments over the Americas Cup base in Auckland and what else is happening around the country's ports. Bill McKay is a Senior Lecturer in the School of Architecture and Planning at the University of Auckland.

https://player.fm/series/radio-new-zealand-all-programmes/where-to-hold-the-americas-cup

He’s also a miserable prick. 

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On 11/26/2017 at 4:40 PM, hoom said:

Now don't get me wrong, I'm all about Govt & Council putting in enough $$$ to make sure its a great event.

It just happens that the cheapest of the short-list is also going to give the best atmosphere & I'm fucked off that TNZ/media ppl can't see that.

Now that's a thought I can endorse.  Actual;ly said something along the same lines a day or so ago.

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from https://www.luvmyboat.com/news/pistols-at-dawn-in-the-americas-cup/19137/

Pistols At Dawn In The Americas Cup

I may have overstated the pistols thing, except for the fact that Emirates Team New Zealand were forced to issue a statement via Facebook on Sunday morning New Zealand time in reply to an article in the New Zealand Herald. No they didn't roll out the big guns, but they did fire a shot.

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9 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

from https://www.luvmyboat.com/news/pistols-at-dawn-in-the-americas-cup/19137/

Pistols At Dawn In The Americas Cup

I may have overstated the pistols thing, except for the fact that Emirates Team New Zealand were forced to issue a statement via Facebook on Sunday morning New Zealand time in reply to an article in the New Zealand Herald. No they didn't roll out the big guns, but they did fire a shot.

"The wider global sailing community can't possibly understand the nation's feverish enthusiasm for both the team and the America's Cup event unless they have experienced it. The America's Cup is like a drug which the supporters can't kick, and like any addictive drug one simply needs more and more." - I LOVE  this statement because it is so true.

"New Zealanders need to get out of their small mindedness and look at the bigger picture. The year is 2017 and, as is the norm when hosting any major sporting event, the city or country has to pay a hosting fee! This is the cost of doing business and bringing a professional sporting event to town…" - This statement is spot on.

"I think Team New Zealand are again playing a dangerous game and there is a fine line at which the public support will dwindle. The New Zealand taxpayer is probably (and should be) the most important stakeholder in the team (but not in actuality) because without the taxpayer there would be no team. The general public don't give a toss about billionaires who chipped in to help." - But so too is this one.

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On 11/23/2017 at 3:48 PM, Boybland said:

To be honest even the dispersed option was not that dispersed, that entire map is probably less thatn 10 minutes walk from one side to the other!

WALK :-O

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The great irony is TNZ wants the Hobson wharf base S8 which is isolated from their village

fdQYprz.jpg

Its 650m walk from S8 round the waterfront to S2.

1.2km S8 round to S7.

600m from S1 to S7

 

Its same 650m S8 to S4 in the HHW

But max trip is shorter 1km from S8 to S3

375m from S4 to S1

6fHe3Zi.jpg

 

 

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13 hours ago, hoom said:

The great irony is TNZ wants the Hobson wharf base S8 which is isolated from their village

An argument still being made by ETNZ is around accommodation for Super Yachts - they (their Event Authority) could be eyeing the ticketing of SY's as a major revenue stream. Marine Industry spokesman Busfield has gone on at length about the potential economics around SY's too.

The Halsey extension obviously works far better for SY's and it's even possible that as part of this coming Host Venue fee negotiation the economics case may see the Halsey option re-visited. 'If you can give us back that Halsey extension and all those SY berths then we can agree the bottom-line.'

From a public/AC-fan perspective the HHW looks much better as a village but from a public/legacy maritime facility perspective, Halsey is also a clear winner. It would not protrude out past existing piers and has the support of even some vocal Save our Harbor advocates like Chris Dickson - who had been protesting what the Port plans were at the time, a different kettle of fish.

Steve Tindall made a comment during the Council meeting that may have gotten overplayed by the Mayor, who immediately jumped on it and portrayed it as ETNZ being happy to go with his favored choice; he then went on to do a variety of on-air interviews where he praised them for being so 'reasonable and accommodating' which will make it difficult PR-wise for ETNZ and for politicians to press for a bases-options re-visit. But it may not be over, there's a lot of money at stake.

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**Breaking news** TNZ announce new name, release new AC yacht concept **News breaking**

Today the former Team New Zealand announces its name will in future be Team New Zealand Superyacht Services Ltd.

This fantastic name change will better represent TNZs new exciting movement away from being an Americas Cup Yacht Sailing team to its new focus as a supplier of Superyacht berthing, repairs & servicing in the Auckland area.

 

Associated with this new focus on Superyacht servicing is the new concept released today for the yacht to be sailed in AC36 which we feel provides a fantastic new Superyacht experience for Superyacht servicing & repair focussed on Superyachts.

rock.it_1.jpg

this-364-foot-superyacht-includes-a-fire

super-yacht-water-slide.jpg

 

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10 minutes ago, hoom said:

**Breaking news** TNZ announce new name, release new AC yacht concept **News breaking**

Today the former Team New Zealand announces its name will in future be Team New Zealand Superyacht Services Ltd.

This fantastic name change will better represent TNZs new exciting movement away from being an Americas Cup Yacht Sailing team to its new focus as a supplier of Superyacht berthing, repairs & servicing in the Auckland area.

 

Associated with this new focus on Superyacht servicing is the new concept released today for the yacht to be sailed in AC36 which we feel provides a fantastic new Superyacht experience for Superyacht servicing & repair focussed on Superyachts.

rock.it_1.jpg

this-364-foot-superyacht-includes-a-fire

super-yacht-water-slide.jpg

 

This comes with an optional water slide?

Dammit! When I bought mine, they told me it wasn't available! :D

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Hoom. Maybe I can explain something for you.

1. There are 2 components, defence and hosting

2. Defence is the role of TNZ (Grant)

3. Hosting of RNZYS/Akld/NZ Govt (Cindy and David)

4. Hosting is about providing infrastructure to enable a world class event

5. To provide  a business case to Govt (Cindy and David), you need to provide some sort of return. Some of that return is provided by the promotion of the NZ Marine Industry, some of it is provided by residual infrastructure that can be used post cup. 

6. That is why the promotion of the superyacht servicing is so important.

7. This has  nothing to do with the defence (Grant).

 

To suggest that the team is to be named is poor humour.

I'll do the humour, you stick to the bitchin.

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Hey Barney lighten up.

This AC is turning into a publically funded pissing match between a handful of billionaires from the local tax payers perspective.

Bit like asking the slaves and gladiators to crowd fund the Coloseum.

 

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6 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Hey Barney lighten up.

This AC is turning into a publically funded pissing match between a handful of billionaires from the local tax payers perspective.

Bit like asking the slaves and gladiators to crowd fund the Coloseum.

 

Well, not quite.

I'm a proponent of tightly controlling the scope of things to those aspects actually required for the event but would also have preferred it if they had stumped up for a more comprehensive option for the hosting area.

But at the end of the day this is not really different to any other sporting venue. 

If the public wants these events, then they have to contribute to them and also accept that certain business people will do better out of the spend than they do.

However let's not go funding super yacht lifts or light rail to the air port. This has fuck all to do with the event.

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Where exactly do you draw the line.

ETNZ rocks up with the Cup and promptly demands a massive amount of public dosh to enable another cycle of the Cup to proceed.

I and the rest of the tax paying public have already been through this exercise.

It is  getting all a bit taxing pardon the pun.

The fruit from the AC tree does not fall as far as ETNZ and their fanboys tout.

Follow this scenario, ETNZ is unsuccessful in defending the Cup in this cycle but wins it back in say 2 events later.

The publicly funded infrastructure has been swallowed by developers and bingo here we go again.

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Well, not quite.

I'm a proponent of tightly controlling the scope of things to those aspects actually required for the event but would also have preferred it if they had stumped up for a more comprehensive option for the hosting area.

But at the end of the day this is not really different to any other sporting venue. 

If the public wants these events, then they have to contribute to them and also accept that certain business people will do better out of the spend than they do.

However let's not go funding super yacht lifts or light rail to the air port. This has fuck all to do with the event.

Superyacht lift - yes!

Light rail to the airport is nothing but a socialist wetdream.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Where exactly do you draw the line.

ETNZ rocks up with the Cup and promptly demands a massive amount of public dosh to enable another cycle of the Cup to proceed.

I and the rest of the tax paying public have already been through this exercise.

It is  getting all a bit taxing pardon the pun.

The fruit from the AC tree does not fall as far as ETNZ and their fanboys tout.

Follow this scenario, ETNZ is unsuccessful in defending the Cup in this cycle but wins it back in say 2 events later.

The publicly funded infrastructure has been swallowed by developers and bingo here we go again.

 

 

 

So what do you propose? I'm a taxpayer too but I do not share your view of an unwelcome AC tax burden for NZL.

I'd like to hear how you believe this thing should be funded.

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Where exactly do you draw the line.

ETNZ rocks up with the Cup and promptly demands a massive amount of public dosh to enable another cycle of the Cup to proceed.

I and the rest of the tax paying public have already been through this exercise.

It is  getting all a bit taxing pardon the pun.

The fruit from the AC tree does not fall as far as ETNZ and their fanboys tout.

Follow this scenario, ETNZ is unsuccessful in defending the Cup in this cycle but wins it back in say 2 events later.

The publicly funded infrastructure has been swallowed by developers and bingo here we go again.

 

 

 

Lets say the Govt has only $100M to spend.

Would you like:

a. Marine infrastructure, hospitality precinct, superyacht port, or

b. Give the $100M to some of Jaspers socialist bureaucrat mates in Wellington so they can spend it on working groups, committees, destroying other NZ industries for green fantasies.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

So what do you propose? I'm a taxpayer too but I do not share your view of an unwelcome AC tax burden for NZL.

I'd like to hear how you believe this thing should be funded.

Firstly the ever expanding repetitive cost of hosting the event has to be addressed.

Why exactly are the entire costs of the infrastructure being shouldered by the ratepayer.

The actual race venue which is just a bit of ocean comes free and the real cost burden lies with the fact that the syndicates require a state or regionally funded garage.

Damned expensive parking.

 

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30 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Hey Barney lighten up.

This AC is turning into a publically funded pissing match between a handful of billionaires from the local tax payers perspective.

Bit like asking the slaves and gladiators to crowd fund the Coloseum.

 

Pot meet kettle...

The majority of your posts are pissing about stealing harbours and complaints about hosting fees - you're clearly not even the AC fan you pretend to be... you are just a nimby nomd (not in my back yard, not on my dime).

Fair enough I suppose but don't accuse others of needing to lighten up when you don't appear to have much enthusiasm for anything that I can see

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6 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Lets say the Govt has only $100M to spend.

Would you like:

a. Marine infrastructure, hospitality precinct, superyacht port, or

b. Give the $100M to some of Jaspers socialist bureaucrat mates in Wellington so they can spend it on working groups, committees, destroying other NZ industries for green fantasies.

 

 

Barny you certainly are a class act.

Where the fuck did the seed of the last line come from.

 

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4 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Pot meet kettle...

The majority of your posts are pissing about stealing harbours and complaints about hosting fees - you're clearly not even the AC fan you pretend to be... you are just a nimby nomd (not in my back yard, not on my dime).

Fair enough I suppose but don't accuse others of needing to lighten up when you don't appear to have much enthusiasm for anything that I can see

Yup ,the harbour is being stolen and the public purse is being routed.

So what you got by way of news.

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1 minute ago, Priscilla said:

Barny you certainly are a class act.

Where the fuck did the seed of the last line come from.

 

It is a dig at Jaspers hometown. He will take this on the chin (because he knows its true) and then hit me back with something witty and articulate with overtones of 'this AC thing is the best thing for NZ since the last defence'

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2 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Yup ,the harbour is being stolen and the public purse is being routed.

So what you got by way of news.

My apologies go to you for the lose of Paddles

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20 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Superyacht lift - yes!

Light rail to the airport is nothing but a socialist wetdream.

Hmmm, welfare for corporates ok, welfare for individuals not?

In truth, the light rail is worse than you suggest because it is a white elephant in the making as soon as self driving cars come along.

With regards to the yacht lift, if it's such a fucking great idea then the marine industry will presumably be clamouring to fund it. Not with my tax dollars thanks.

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14 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

Firstly the ever expanding repetitive cost of hosting the event has to be addressed.

Why exactly are the entire costs of the infrastructure being shouldered by the ratepayer.

The actual race venue which is just a bit of ocean comes free and the real cost burden lies with the fact that the syndicates require a state or regionally funded garage.

Damned expensive parking.

 

No ideas then? Just bitchin?

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2 hours ago, Barnyb said:

I'll do the humour, you stick to the bitchin.

How about:

  1. You fuck off
  2. The existing Viaduct hosted something like 120 superyachts last cycle
  3. The estimate is for 160 this time
  4. Do we really fucking need to double/triple the superyacht berthing?
  5. HHW does significantly expand on the existing Legacy superyacht berthing while also containing costs by reusing existing Legacy infrastructure AND making a better public area.
  6. If the only thing going for Halsey only is the Superyacht berths there is something really fucking wrong with it.

Now about that humor, where the fuck is yours?

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3 minutes ago, hoom said:

How about:

  1. You fuck off
  2. The existing Viaduct hosted something like 120 superyachts last cycle
  3. The estimate is for 160 this time
  4. Do we really fucking need to double/triple the superyacht berthing?
  5. HHW does significantly expand on the existing Legacy superyacht berthing while also containing costs by reusing existing Legacy infrastructure AND making a better public area.
  6. If the only thing going for Halsey only is the Superyacht berths there is something really fucking wrong with it.

Now about that humor, where the fuck is yours?

Gotta say the whole event has the very real capacity to explode into some unknown black hole financial universe.

DC is not alone in costing a competive Cup tilt at $200mil.

At that price who exactly is going to proceed with a challenge.

 

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1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

Dalts states publically that we will see multi foil mono club racers competing on Friday nite club events.

Any takers.

Smells like bullshit to me. 

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6 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The headline does not match the content. The Emirates spokesman does not "rubbish" anything.

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12 minutes ago, Ex-yachtie said:

The vision of Auckland’s America’s Cup in 2021. 

ETNZ

 

Looks like it will be great during the event but seems like it may get a bit cramped if they want teams to set up 1+ years out. 

Also will be interesting to see what opportunities there are for sponsor activation from challengers, doesn't look like there's much room at the team bases in the main marina for it.

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Beautiful and impressively quick! Who produced the video and does this mean ETNZ's on board with HHW?

Seen the duplicate thread (grrr). Now, who's ARL? Impressed, took all of five days. Considering where they're located (Dunedin) are they an outgrowth of the Lord of the Ring films?

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Beautiful and impressively quick! Who produced the video and does this mean ETNZ's on board with HHW?

Seen the duplicate thread (grrr). Now, who's ARL? Impressed, took all of five days. Considering where they're located (Dunedin) are they an outgrowth of the Lord of the Ring films?

ARL = Animation Research Limited .. http://arl.co.nz/

They have been in the graphic art business for a very long time and produced the graphics for the AC when it was held in Auckland in 2000 and 2003.

They wrote the Virtual Eye program that was used for playing match racing on computers. 

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^ Right, that's the 2nd AC36 vid they have done - so expect them to be the primary graphics generator for the broadcasts

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Terry Hollis has given you a good lead.  Pretty hot outfit.  Were doing graphics for TV back when NZ was first challenging for the Cup.  Started with Virtual Spectator for TV producers and gradually morphed into online Apps.  They operate world wide from their Dunedin base.  Name a sport and they've done one kind of graphic service or another -- world gliding champs, golf, FI, world motor rally, Volvo Race, you name it. Worth going to their website http://arl.co.nz for a first hand look at all they do.

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On 11/26/2017 at 9:17 AM, jaysper said:

It will be in Auckland because the politicians know their snouts would be out of the slopes bucket come next election time.

I understand you're not prepared to pay for it. Why do you think everyone else is?

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1. What happens if the event is hosted in Dubai or Italy ....and ETNZ wins again? 

- the chance they would revisit the issue of Auckland hosting it again is slim to none.

2. If Auckland does host and doesnt win again...then the construction and renovations will need a definite commercial alternative...IE they ned to avoid a white elephant front and centre in Auckland harbour.

a- Id take another look...and consider widening the harbourfront. Lose the container port, and start shifting all the industrial stuff out of the way. Container port on a new wharf to the east maybe. 

b-Tank farm is a bad issue given environmental clean up costs. Why waste the money on that. 

3. Lastly, I think its a mistake to go as high tech as they have.... Getting more teams to compete is the key to making it a self funding sport. As long as its run fairly the fans will overlook the cut in speed. You need closer finish times to excel.  

Feels like another Bermuda coming.

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From an interview with Goff at http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/5/299215

Well, given that you have got shortfalls and, you know, you can only spend a dollar once, there’s all this talk about the America’s Cup. The hosting fee - who should pay that? Are we going to pay that as Auckland ratepayers?

No. I’ve been pretty adamant about that.

Absolutely not? Categorical assurance from you?

Well, let me explain it, please. First of all, we will put money into infrastructure. What I’ve said to Team New Zealand is, "You need a base for your syndicates. We will make sure you need the land space and the water space to enable you to host a successful cup in Auckland." And that’s what we’ll do. We’ll actually do something beyond that; we’ll bring forward some of the infrastructure spend in the centre city and the waterfront area that we were going to spend on anyway, but we’ll bring it forward, so that is another cost on us. Am I going to compete with so each either the Russian mafia in that city and the Middle East, Abu Dhabi, to pay $116 million? Not on your life.

So that’s got to come from the government?

Well, I don’t think the government will want to pay that money.

So who’s going to pay it, then?

Well, I don’t mind Team New Zealand having a go at it. The truth is-

You could lose this over that, though. You could lose it over that.

Well, I’m sorry. There is a bottom line for us. I’m the guardian of your money and the ratepayers’ money, and I don’t have $116 million or anything like that or anything a fraction of that to throw at it.

So you are prepared to lose it if it does come down to someone having to stump up that money and the government’s not going to do it?

If the demand was we had to put another $116 million in of the ratepayers’ money, my answer is no, we won’t do that. Do I think Team New Zealand will walk away from Auckland? I don’t think so. We’ve got the best harbour in the world to do this. They are patriotic New Zealanders. They want to have the cup here.

So does that include the hosting fee too? No way, no how will you pay the hosting fee.

Look, there’ll be a negotiation, but I don’t have the money. It’s not my money; it’s your money, and I’m not prepared to spend money on a hosting agreement. That is not part of the deal. The deal is to provide the infrastructure.

Well, that’s a definitive no, then, if you’re saying that you’re not going to go to the ratepayers and ask them for it and you’ve got no magic pot of money. That’s no to the hosting fee.

I can’t spend money that we don’t have, and I’m not intending to, and that would not be my top priority when I’ve got huge priorities right across the city on behalf of Aucklanders. And that’s what Aucklanders tell me - "We want the cup here. We really want to host the cup." I want to host the cup. We will pay a fair share to the infrastructure. I’m not up for hosting agreement fees that were never paid in 1999 and weren’t paid in 2003. I don’t believe they should be paid this time.

That’s pretty clear. Thanks for joining me, Mayor

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I agree with the E

3 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

From an interview with Goff at http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/5/299215

Well, let me explain it, please. First of all, we will put money into infrastructure. What I’ve said to Team New Zealand is, "You need a base for your syndicates. We will make sure you need the land space and the water space to enable you to host a successful cup in Auckland." And that’s what we’ll do. We’ll actually do something beyond that; we’ll bring forward some of the infrastructure spend in the centre city and the waterfront area that we were going to spend on anyway, but we’ll bring it forward, so that is another cost on us. Am I going to compete with so each either the Russian mafia in that city and the Middle East, Abu Dhabi, to pay $116 million? Not on your life.

 

I am glad Auckland's mayor Phill Goff  wants to host the 36th cup. But:
In the latest presentation of the cup https://youtu.be/2xNaaOjtqBs there is one overview somehow disturbing.
Am I the only one that finds the ammount of Area on the dock for ETNZ not fair in comparison to the others?
It's twice as big! They can expect twice the ammount of visitors in their own country but still.
The whole area is advertisement for ETNZ so why emphasise that in a twice as large team-base?
ETNZ_innovation_hub.thumb.jpg.431ef4de9e872343af0c0d22726f5ffa.jpg
 

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45 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

We will pay a fair share to the infrastructure. I’m not up for hosting agreement fees that were never paid in 1999 and weren’t paid in 2003. I don’t believe they should be paid this time.

What was the deal in 99 and 03 - Viaduct construction cost and expenses related to running the Cup?

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2 hours ago, schakel488 said:

I agree with the E

I am glad Auckland's mayor Phill Goff  wants to host the 36th cup. But:
In the latest presentation of the cup https://youtu.be/2xNaaOjtqBs there is one overview somehow disturbing.
Am I the only one that finds the ammount of Area on the dock for ETNZ not fair in comparison to the others?
It's twice as big! They can expect twice the ammount of visitors in their own country but still.
The whole area is advertisement for ETNZ so why emphasise that in a twice as large team-base?
ETNZ_innovation_hub.thumb.jpg.431ef4de9e872343af0c0d22726f5ffa.jpg
 

ETNZ needs to provide suitable space for each team, which it has done.

Whether or not it chooses to take extra space for its own is entirely up to them. How much space did Oracle have in SF?

Those three buildings that lead to the ETNZ compound make up the Maritime Museum, and you can see Aotearoa now at the end as part of the innovation hub. So I think this innovation hub area will be quite distinct from the actual boat yard area.

When I win the lottery and invite you on my superyacht I hope you aren't going to complain that your cabin is smaller than mine! ;-)

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3 hours ago, oobilly said:

a- Id take another look...and consider widening the harbourfront. Lose the container port, and start shifting all the industrial stuff out of the way. Container port on a new wharf to the east maybe. 

Ha ha ha.  Good idea.  I wonder why Auckland hasn't thought of that?!

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11 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

ETNZ needs to provide suitable space for each team, which it has done.

Actually, no, it doesn't.  It's Prada's responsibility to organise the Challengers.  An interesting read here: http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Gladwells-Line---The-Week-that-Was---Defenders-2-Challengers-nil/159059

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24 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

When I win the lottery and invite you on my superyacht I hope you aren't going to complain that your cabin is smaller than mine! ;-)

When you win the lottery and invite me onto your superyacht, I hope you won't charge me a few $M for stepping aboard. But that's what ETNZ will be charging challengers. So your metaphor doesn't hold water.

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4 hours ago, Xlot said:

What was the deal in 99 and 03 - Viaduct construction cost and expenses related to running the Cup?

Iirc Auckland put around $100M into building out the Winyard Quarter to host the 2000 Defense, then around $15M improving it for the 2003 Defense.

If that $100M figure is correct then what they (with Govt) are putting in now, maybe $160M in construction costs, but 20 years later, is on roughly the same order of magnitude. A difference is that this time the new facilities, probably aside from the new ETNZ base, may remain publicly owned instead of eventually sold off to developers.

The $15M in cash paid by Bermuda was used by ACEA for running not just the Bermuda events but also to defray the logistics of the many AC35 ACWS events run. This time, it seems the Challs are being required to cover all ACWS costs. It seems unlikely ETNZ would walk away from this even if the ‘venue fee’ offered was about that same number - despite the uncorroborated $116M-from-Dubai rumor, some of which might in any event be for event construction costs.

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