• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Ex-yachtie

AC36 - The Venue

Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, inebriated said:

either all the teams will go at it with guns blazing, and we will pretty much know how fast everyone is before they get to the Prada cup

This was also the problem with the London Conspiracy: ACWS in AC50s would have been a very bad idea.

Regardless of the many other things they did wrong, building a fleet of one-design AC45s for ACWS & getting teams familiar with wing cats/foiling cats was a really good move & the lack of such an intro class for this AC is a big problem IMO.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, hoom said:

Regardless of the many other things they did wrong, building a fleet of one-design AC45s for ACWS & getting teams familiar with wing cats/foiling cats was a really good move & the lack of such an intro class for this AC is a big problem IMO.

Agreed, that was especially good once the AC45F’s entered the ACWS scene ahead of the eventual AC50’s, they even led to that Class change. Made good sense in the end and some eventually made for a good platform to base the AC45T’s on.

Racing TP52’s or somesuch in the coming ACWS won’t be nearly as good a match, maybe they can think of another platform if AC75’s aren’t (lol) ‘available.’

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

Thats a crapton of reports :blink:

Scrolled through most for some useful tidbits:

Tidal flow is expected not significantly worse (if I read correctly actually expecting improved flow through Westhaven from the ferry/fishing relocation)

Wave mitigation in base areas expected to be adequate

General acceptance that its a good solution from Urban designers

Before/after visual comparisons here https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/ResourceConsentDocuments/bun60313877-05-attach1b-ud-lasc-planning-part2a.pdf

Moller base designs here https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/ResourceConsentDocuments/bun60313877-07-attach2-architecturaldrawing-parta.pdf

 

I note that it shows apparent keeled boats parked in the bases, with Bernasconi having previously talked about mounting/demounting the JCL legs outside on the hard it occurs to me that these bases are much taller than they really need to be.

Another thing which kinda bothers me is what the impact of moving ferries/fishing to West of Wynyard has on the long term development plan since the shore part takes up a big chunk of the land that was supposed to be built on. The previous update does show a superyacht wharf but its connected to the existing superyacht facilities & doesn't actually impact the land part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think ACTS in IACCs in the AC32 cycle were such a big spoiler for the LVC or the Match.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oped

Aucklanders — and their elected councillors — have good reason to thank Economic Development Minister David Parker for sticking his oar into the America's Cup base debate and arguing for a commonsense alternative to the bureaucrats' gold-plated dream scheme.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11984685

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hoom said:

Thats a crapton of reports :blink:

Scrolled through most for some useful tidbits:

Tidal flow is expected not significantly worse (if I read correctly actually expecting improved flow through Westhaven from the ferry/fishing relocation)

Wave mitigation in base areas expected to be adequate

General acceptance that its a good solution from Urban designers

Before/after visual comparisons here https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/ResourceConsentDocuments/bun60313877-05-attach1b-ud-lasc-planning-part2a.pdf

Moller base designs here https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/ResourceConsentDocuments/bun60313877-07-attach2-architecturaldrawing-parta.pdf

 

I note that it shows apparent keeled boats parked in the bases, with Bernasconi having previously talked about mounting/demounting the JCL legs outside on the hard it occurs to me that these bases are much taller than they really need to be.

Another thing which kinda bothers me is what the impact of moving ferries/fishing to West of Wynyard has on the long term development plan since the shore part takes up a big chunk of the land that was supposed to be built on. The previous update does show a superyacht wharf but its connected to the existing superyacht facilities & doesn't actually impact the land part.

Some impressive work in many of those docs. Very ambitious, you start to get a real sense of the probable time-crunch.

It's actually a nicer Village than what Valencia even had.

https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/have-your-say/have-your-say-notified-resource-consent/notified-resource-consent-applications-open-submissions/Pages/ResourceConsentApplication.aspx?itemId=87&applNum=BUN60313877

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, dogwatch said:

I don't think ACTS in IACCs in the AC32 cycle were such a big spoiler for the LVC or the Match.

They used matched pairs of existing older boats, not the boats that teams were being expected to run for the LVC/AC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hoom said:

They used matched pairs of existing older boats, not the boats that teams were being expected to run for the LVC/AC.

Not all AC32 Challs were 2 boat syndicates but those who mattered at the sharp end did all launch second boats late in the game, yep, well after the ACTs. Cup Winner SUI 100 was the last launch.

That looks to be the case this time too, the young lady from MIT joining Botin for QR already called their first boat the ‘test’ boat, LR already said somewhere they’d be launching 2, and so did GD in the Clean interview. LRBAR, not certain but it seems likely. 

And so ACWS racing this time around, probably just a few events anyway, will in all likelihood be competed for in ‘test’ boats, probably including in the eventual Xmas Cup. All good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11985949

As the country sat back gobsmacked at Team New Zealand's ability to get up on the foils and crush Oracle in the 2017 America's Cup, surfers nationwide are getting up on their own foils.

Foiling surfboards are now a thing and it's taking the country by storm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Stingray~~ said:

at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11985949

As the country sat back gobsmacked at Team New Zealand's ability to get up on the foils and crush Oracle in the 2017 America's Cup, surfers nationwide are getting up on their own foils.

Foiling surfboards are now a thing and it's taking the country by storm.

If you watch a few youtube videos of foil surfing you can see why though, especially where they just pump themselves back out to the next wave without even coming off the foil, I'm certainly seeing the appeal!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/31/2018 at 5:34 AM, Stingray~~ said:

Oped

Aucklanders — and their elected councillors — have good reason to thank Economic Development Minister David Parker for sticking his oar into the America's Cup base debate and arguing for a commonsense alternative to the bureaucrats' gold-plated dream scheme.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11984685

Parker sticking his oar in!  Ha! Rudman should know. He's an expert in sticking his oar in - and most of the time he's sculling sideways. I can't remember the last time I agreed with one of Rudman's dodgy exercises in punditry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2018 at 5:40 PM, Stingray~~ said:

Not all AC32 Challs were 2 boat syndicates but those who mattered at the sharp end did all launch second boats late in the game, yep, well after the ACTs. Cup Winner SUI 100 was the last launch.

For AC32 of those teams that built 2 new boats this is the schedule of their use during the Acts leading up to the LVC/Cup:

Act 10:  NZL-84, ITA-86 and USA-87 make their debut.  1st of the new boats for ETNZ, LR and BMWO.

Act 12:  ESP-88 makes its debut.  1st new boat for Desafio.

Act 13:  SUI-91, ITA-94, ESP-97 and ITA-99 make their debut.  1st new boats for Alinghi and 2nd new boat for LR, Desafio and Mascazlone.

Also, Act 10 through Act 13 were all held in Valencia.  So that probably factored in to the build schedule leading up to the debut of new boats by the 2 boat teams. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

America's Cup - Reader push-back on Wynyard Point bases

by Richard Gladwell

Late last week one of Sail-World's thousands of international readers responded to a story posted on Sail-World's Facebook page about moves by Minister for Economic Development, David Parker to have more America's Cup bases located in Wynyard Point.

 

https://www.sail-world.com/news/201663

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, hoom said:

Hmm, seems I misremembered how that pre-series worked :blink:

It was 10 years ago. ;)

I thought 1 or 2 2nd boats participated in at least the last Act but I had to look it up. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2018 at 10:48 AM, Stingray~~ said:

at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11985949

As the country sat back gobsmacked at Team New Zealand's ability to get up on the foils and crush Oracle in the 2017 America's Cup, surfers nationwide are getting up on their own foils.

Foiling surfboards are now a thing and it's taking the country by storm.

"Surfers and paddlers are seen catching waves above the waterline with a paddle in hand to (...) propel themselves forward".

 

Insightful journalism once again from The Herald.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/02/04/80981/compromise-americas-cup-base-emerges

Compromise America’s Cup base emerges

 

A compromise base for America's Cup teams on the Auckland waterfront is now likely to be readied for planning consent after a standoff between the Government and Auckland Council over where best to invest up to $140 million of public money.

The new plan is expected to be a pick and mix of elements of the two proposals publicly debated since late last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

at https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/02/04/80981/compromise-americas-cup-base-emerges

Compromise America’s Cup base emerges

 

A compromise base for America's Cup teams on the Auckland waterfront is now likely to be readied for planning consent after a standoff between the Government and Auckland Council over where best to invest up to $140 million of public money.

The new plan is expected to be a pick and mix of elements of the two proposals publicly debated since late last year.

Great! I’m always reading about cities that were made great by “variant options”!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These costs are only guesstimates and the true costs of hosting the event to the taxpayer wether local or regional will only rock out after the event is over.

$128m for wharf extensions will be a welcome filler for Fletchers poor balance sheet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/sport/deal-getting-close-on-americas-cup-bases/

A preferred solution for the America's Cup bases is close to being agreed between Mayor Phil Goff and Economic Development Minister David Parker.

It is understood they are now close to being on the same page on a "compromise" solution for the bases. However, it is not clear how Emirates Team New Zealand views those plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, a thing about the Consents I was pretty uncomfortable about is quite how large the Halsey extension winds up being in the post Event.

More on East Wynyard, less Halsey extension suits me just fine (assuming cost/lease issues are resolved ok per Parker).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hoom said:

You know, a thing about the Consents I was pretty uncomfortable about is quite how large the Halsey extension winds up being in the post Event.

More on East Wynyard, less Halsey extension suits me just fine (assuming cost/lease issues are resolved ok per Parker).

I've been a little unconvinced by Panuku's various costings and justifications for their backing a particular option. I just hope they're not trying to sneak in some AC36-unrelated planning work...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the other shoe drops, or should I say another shoe drops.  Announcement in Wellington today carried by AP with barely a mention in the Herald. 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11994316

Tank farm to go for America's Cup bases at Auckland waterfront 

14 Feb, 2018 1:00pm 

A deal has been struck to free up land on Wynyard Point and pursue the possibility of a new option for the America's Cup bases.

The Government and Auckland Council are pursuing an option that provides for at least seven syndicate bases around two basins in the Wynyard area with provision for restaurants and bars, public viewing, and hospitality areas.

Dutch company Stolthaven Terminals has agreed to vacate its southern tank farm site on Wynyard Point early.

"The deal which sees Stolthaven Terminals vacate the premises earlier is great for Auckland regardless of where the bases for the America's Cup will be," Mayor Phil Goff said.  

"It is a good legacy for our city."

The deal also clears the way for more land-based locations for America's Cup bases and reduced the proposed extension to Halsey Wharf from 75m to 35m.

ADVERTISEMENT
 
 2 minutes to read 
Emirates Team New Zealand will continue to be involved in discussions for the proposed team bases. Photo / AP
Emirates Team New Zealand will continue to be involved in discussions for the proposed team bases. Photo / AP
NZ Herald
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course the devil is in the details ..... and there ain't no details!

What did the national government promise to get its way and cause Goff to roll over?

Can they in fact remediate the oil-soaked land on Wynyard Point in time and at what cost?

At least ETNZ gets a permanent base in this plan.  That's progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said before: I really don't understand the necessity to remediate the soil only to have it paved over/have a boat-shed built on it filled with various also toxic stuff.

I say wait till after the bases are cleared for the remediation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

At least ETNZ gets a permanent base in this plan.  That's progress.

They still get the Hobson St Wharf extension, or is it on WP land?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

They still get the Hobson St Wharf extension, or is it on WP land?

They'll get the Hobson street extension at the end of the Maritime Museum.  At least that's what's shown on the government plan posted today.  Except they are objecting to the use of Wynyard Wharf for visitor bases even though Parker threw 'em a bone. Stay tuned. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a relatively rare broadside, ETNZ lays out it's vision for the Cup bases and village and it doesn't include oil tanks, remediation or Wynyard Wharf!

And our sailors definitely don't agree with the latest Parker/Goff compromise.

EMIRATES TEAM NEW ZEALAND STATEMENT ON  AMERICA’S CUP BASES

http://emirates-team-new-zealand.americascup.com/en/preview-news/268_EMIRATES-TEAM-NEW-ZEALAND-STATEMENT-ON-AMERICAS-CUP-BASES.html

It's a fine tuned version of the agreement reached by ETNZ with Goff before Christmas and before Minister Parker stuck his oar in

From a practical and organisational perspective it's by far the best plan and less expensive than screwing around with oil ad chemical fouled installations on Wynyard Point in the questionable name of progress.

The reclamation of Wynyard Point as a people's park is essential but it shouldn't be held hostage to Minister Parkers convoluted political plans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

 

DA460A3F-F9D4-4733-BEF3-21D2F28E2CF5.jpeg

Uh-oh ... a possible indication that in reality it'll be a party for just ETNZ, LR and BMQR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2018/02/14/AC36-Whats-up-with-the-2021-Cup-is-the-title-of-TFEs-talk-today-at-St-Francis-YC-live-streamed-on-the-StFYC-Facebook-page-at-1230-Pacific-1530-Eastern-2130-CET

AC36: "What's up with the 2021 Cup" is the title of TFE's talk today at St Francis YC; live-streamed on the StFYC Facebook page at 1230 Pacific / 1530 Eastern / 2130 CET

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interview with Parker on the latest machinations - likely one of the better quality discussions you'll get given it is from an actual journalistic organisation.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018632153/america-s-cup-village-changes-surprise-team-nz

Parker comes across as very thoughtful, considerate, smart and/but driven - and I say this as a National voter. It's no wonder he's been able to roll-over the council plebs who would have struggled to keep up. His political agenda is the only contaminant that is probably more worrying than the councillors personal ones.

I suspect he and Tindall will get round a table and sort out the final deal - they actually seem cut from similar cloth in terms of conduct - again demonstrating the total uselessness of the Auckland Council - what a waste of money and time they are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

I suspect he and Tindall will get round a table and sort out the final deal 

The deal is between Auckland and Govt, since those are the two parties paying for everything.

I can see their concerns over schedule risks but Tindall, ETNZ, etc have essentially no bargaining power whatsoever - they’re not going to take it ‘to Italy.’ 

More analysis here, radio, scroll to 04:50

http://103.14.3.1/audio/player?audio_id=2018632164

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

at https://www.sailingillustrated.com/single-post/2018/02/14/AC36-Whats-up-with-the-2021-Cup-is-the-title-of-TFEs-talk-today-at-St-Francis-YC-live-streamed-on-the-StFYC-Facebook-page-at-1230-Pacific-1530-Eastern-2130-CET

AC36: "What's up with the 2021 Cup" is the title of TFE's talk today at St Francis YC; live-streamed on the StFYC Facebook page at 1230 Pacific / 1530 Eastern / 2130 CET

Live now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

The deal is between Auckland and Govt, since those are the two parties paying for everything.

I can see their concerns over schedule risks but Tindall, ETNZ, etc have essentially no bargaining power whatsoever - they’re not going to take it ‘to Italy.’ 

More analysis here, radio, scroll to 04:50

http://103.14.3.1/audio/player?audio_id=2018632164

 

Nonsense ETNZ are part of the deal, arguably more so than the now impotent council

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

Heavy sledding here.  This link is to Parker's latest amended plan.  A long, long read!  It notes:  

"The proposal provides for at least seven syndicate bases around two basins in the Wynyard area with provision for restaurants and bars, public viewing, and hospitality areas."

Now there's a lovely piece of waffle.  A perspective drawing with the plan shows the restaurants, bars and public viewing areas that have been in place for the past two or three years. There are no new restaurants, bars and viewing areas illustrated . . . and what's more, no room for them!

Parker's plan rips apart the original ETNZ/Council compromise for a compact village and base area with temporary base buildings that would be removed if and when NZ loses the Cup. If adopted that would  eliminate the criticisms of reduced sight lines but leave some valuable empty concrete platforms for waterfront events, fairs, and general public access to the waters -- something that the populace is pining for according to Save our Harbour.

The plan drawing with the proposal makes clear for the first time that an area only big enough for one more base will be accomplished by the removal of the Stolthaven tanks. The larger tangle of tanks and piping at the southern end of Wynyard Wharf will remain,  sandwiching and containing the four big wharf Cup sites between tanks at both ends and effectively blocking public access.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

by Dana J..

Team New Zealand face shifting battle lines in America's Cup war of the wharves

ANALYSIS: Once again, Team New Zealand find themselves the lone wolves.

The Kiwi syndicate's estrangement from the rest pack may have ultimately worked in their favour in Bermuda, providing added motivation for their stunning win over Oracle Team USA to capture the America's Cup.

They are now cast adrift in a much harsher political landscape, fighting a war of the wharves in which the battle lines keep shifting.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/101464689/team-new-zealand-face-shifting-battle-lines-in-americas-cup-war-of-the-wharves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Dana J’s brilliant kicker, lol:

As the battle lines keep changing in the war of the wharves, the time for Team NZ to start seriously investigating the contingency plan to take the event to Italy, home of challenger of record Luna Rossa, must be drawing closer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

at http://auckland.scoop.co.nz/2018/02/stop-stealing-our-harbour-americas-cup-village/

Press Release – Stop Stealing Our Harbour

America’s Cup Village Proposal

Stop Stealing Our Harbour congratulates Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Minister David Parker for achieving a viable plan for the America’s Cup syndicate bases and also Mayor Phil Goff and Auckland Council for their willingness to remain open-minded to developing workable options for the Cup Village.

Stop Stealing Our Harbour applaud the commonsense approach and innovative thinking which has resulted in less cost and intrusion into the harbour without reducing the effectiveness of the Cup Village concept.

We look forward to the progress of the proposal’s design and any further refinements which can continue to limit harbour intrusion and reduce costs.

The Government’s success in negotiating an early release of some of the Tank Farm for the America’s Cup bases gives hope for Auckland’s waterfront by starting the de-industrialisation of Wynyard Point.

The much planned and long-awaited Headland Park could now be in sight as a result of the Government’s innovative America’s Cup proposals.

About Stop Stealing Our Harbour:
Stop Stealing Our Harbour wants Ports of Auckland to halt all work on Bledisloe Wharf extensions. It is an advocacy group comprising representatives of boating, political, business, and professional organisations as well as lawyers and architects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tough line from this previously-posted article, and interview: https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/350458/govt-cup-village-plan-not-a-done-deal

Neither Mr Goff nor Mr Parker would say how much longer talks with the team could take.

That was up to Team New Zealand, Mr Parker said.

me: given GD’s statement at http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1802/S00310/team-nz-statement-on-americas-cup-bases.htm

“While we are 100% behind the removal of the tanks, timeframe is a hugely significant consideration in the planning for this America’s Cup.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

DA460A3F-F9D4-4733-BEF3-21D2F28E2CF5.jpeg

I'm ok with this.

Its not really all that different from the original HHW.

 

Only 2 bases on Halsey breaks up the 'wall of bases' which was a reasonable concern with that plan, though less bases to view from Te Wero is a downside.

Bases 4&8 will help block the view of tanks from North Wharf/Halsey so RG should be happy.

North Wharf/Halsey will still be main public viewing areas for dock-out/in, though the extra step-back from the waterfront for 5,6&7 is a bit iffy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, hoom said:

I'm ok with this.

Its not really all that different from the original HHW.

 

Only 2 bases on Halsey breaks up the 'wall of bases' which was a reasonable concern with that plan, though less bases to view from Te Wero is a downside.

Bases 4&8 will help block the view of tanks from North Wharf/Halsey so RG should be happy.

North Wharf/Halsey will still be main public viewing areas for dock-out/in, though the extra step-back from the waterfront for 5,6&7 is a bit iffy

Yep. It’s not clear why ETNZ is trying to argue anything, they still get a Govt-funded, permanent, $30M+ Hobson St base out of the deal, so why are they pretending to have negotiating power over any of the rest of it?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

Yep. It’s not clear why ETNZ is trying to argue anything, they still get a Govt-funded, permanent, $30M+ Hobson St base out of the deal, so why are they pretending to have negotiating power over any of the rest of it?  

This is why you and I are chipping in on a webpage instead of participating in global sporting success ;-)

The negotiation continues as ETNZ still require more from the government in terms of logical budget.

Acquiescence over cup village will come as part of the negotiation over that ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, rh2600 said:

The negotiation continues as ETNZ still require more from the government in terms of logical budget.

Acquiescence over cup village will come as part of the negotiation over that ;-)

I assume you meant ‘logistical’ budget and yes, that negotiation is surely part of the ‘Host Agreement’ deal. 

But it is still hard to figure where TNZ has any negotiating power. The venue is being given, to the tune of almost $200M, with only a few minor details yet to be worked out. Nobody, including ‘Italy’ is going to go that deep into public coffers in order to hold this thing.  And everyone knows that.

In light of Stolthaven’s willingness to vacate that WP land it’s also worth questioning if any wharf extensions will even be necessary, if the probable 4 or 5 teams could be all based on WP instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

I assume you meant ‘logistical’ budget and yes, that negotiation is surely part of the ‘Host Agreement’ deal. 

But it is still hard to figure where TNZ has any negotiating power. The venue is being given, to the tune of almost $200M, with only a few minor details yet to be worked out. Nobody, including ‘Italy’ is going to go that deep into public coffers in order to hold this thing.  And everyone knows that.

In light of Stolthaven’s willingness to vacate that WP land it’s also worth questioning if any wharf extensions will even be necessary, if the probable 4 or 5 teams could be all based on WP instead.

Stolhaven will want their pound of flesh - this increase in cost is yet to be quantified, publicised and 'accepted' by the general population.

There are still a few horses to be traded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Stolhaven will want their pound of flesh - this increase in cost is yet to be quantified, publicised and 'accepted' by the general population.

There are still a few horses to be traded.

Stolthaven already signed a $6m buyout agreement. Council and Govt are now locked into the new plan - which IMO looks like a decent enough AC Village. 

My only question is why ETNZ are making a fight out of it, since their objection makes very little sense if Council and Govt are confident over the timeline to provide this overly-massive setup for AC36.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

My only question is why ETNZ are making a fight out of it, since their objection makes very little sense if Council and Govt are confident over the timeline to provide this overly-massive setup for AC36.

My only question is why is it any of your fucking business??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Indio said:

My only question is why is it any of your fucking business??

i don't see grant fucking Dalton talking saying anything about you in interviews now do i?

stingray can say whatever the fuck he likes about the AC, goddamn legend of the game.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Stolhaven will want their pound of flesh - this increase in cost is yet to be quantified, publicised and 'accepted' by the general population.

There are still a few horses to be traded.

I haven't read to deep into the details of the soils contamination on the tank sight or read any test wells data.  But as cleaning up sites like this and tank and underground pipe removal  is my families stock and trade I would offer this. If Stolhaven gets to walk away with 6M and a guaranteed of no future liability for environmental  cleanup then that will be there pound of flesh.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, inebriated said:

i don't see grant fucking Dalton talking saying anything about you in interviews now do i?

stingray can say whatever the fuck he likes about the AC, goddamn legend of the game.

Hey @inebriated, I say this as someone who supports @~Stingray~s accounting of these events, do us all a favor and jog on will yah mate...

You are like the clueless loner at the back of the crowd who once it's all over walks in and says "yeah"!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Stolhaven will want their pound of flesh - this increase in cost is yet to be quantified, publicised and 'accepted' by the general population.

There are still a few horses to be traded.

If we are to believe the numbers Panuku quoted as the additional cost to decontaminate the tank farm, then this 11th-hour  hybrid proposal, supposedly cheaper by $15-20-mil, must be using funds from another budget to pay for the decontamination outside of the actual AC36 budget. I wonder if Parker has managed to get his Environment portfolio to pay for the decon part of the AC36 budget...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

Hey @inebriated, I say this as someone who supports @~Stingray~s accounting of these events, do us all a favor and jog on will yah mate...

You are like the clueless loner at the back of the crowd who once it's all over walks in and says "yeah"!

nahhhh, i'm alright here

cheers, i'm not sure how i am a loner though, just because i do better things with my life than going straight to sailing anarchy every waking minute

keep going with this sailing forum though dude, it's doing wonders for you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, inebriated said:

nahhhh, i'm alright here

cheers, i'm not sure how i am a loner though, just because i do better things with my life than going straight to sailing anarchy every waking minute

keep going with this sailing forum though dude, it's doing wonders for you

Could have fooled me mate - on all counts... on the old iggy you go! ;-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

it’s also worth questioning if any wharf extensions will even be necessary, if the probable 4 or 5 teams could be all based on WP instead.

That's the 800-pound gorilla, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Xlot said:

That's the 800-pound gorilla, no?

Really hard to say. GD said to ignore the silence, so maybe there really are legit teams lined up.

AR has still not explicitly ruled out a campaign and at the recent SuperFoiler Series event Iain Jensen also indicated that AR’s intentions were still an open question.

The 3 yr old Yacht Club change to the Protocol must surely have had a specific syndicate in mind, so that’s another possibility - maybe Chinese.

If both happened the number would reach 6.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was down at the Viaduct tonight past midnight. What's clear is that this place can now stand on its own two legs on any given weekend - nothing happening in the city and this place was humming, overflowing with people.

The Loaded Hog is gone but Dr Rudy's makes a good modern replacement and would have queues around the block during AC36.

Would post photos but file size limits hard to overcome on mobile.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice ^

at http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1802/S00255/volvo-ocean-race-comes-home-to-new-zealands-sailing-capital.htm

Nine Kiwi sailors on seven boats are racing for home and Auckland’s party zone, in the 6th leg of the Volvo Ocean Race.
 
Ahead of their arrival Auckland Viaduct is being transformed into a vibrant Race Village, with Viaduct Events Centre acting as Race HQ.
 
... An expected 500,000 yachting fans will be pouring through the village to get a closer look at the boats, enjoy the live entertainment, see displays of the boats and how they work, and a get a chance to watch the teams strip back the Volvo 65 boats as they get them ready for the next leg of the race that takes them through the treacherous Southern Ocean and around Cape Horn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That $180-mil price tag is likely to blow out after Fletcher's recent experiences with gross under-quoting on the Sky Conference and Christchurch Judiciary Centre. Contractors are likely to err more on the top side rather than the Fletcher's model....

I wouldn't be too unhappy if RNZYS and ETNZ choose to take AC36 elsewhere. Someone is going to blink first, and it won't be Dalton. Goff and Parker will continue with their public negotiations tactics hoping to put pressure on ETNZ, but if Dalton is currently overseas, Goff and Parker had better hunker down and review their positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The numbers just simply do not stack up to be able to sell this event offshore.

Etnz and Co have gone for the most costly left field event anyone could have conjured up.

Looks enevitable that the the Government and ratepayer gonna be a whole bunch poorer.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Priscilla said:

The numbers just simply do not stack up to be able to sell this event offshore.

 

Etnz and Co have gone for the most costly left field event anyone could have conjured up.

Care to elucidate, because it seems to me that with Luna Rossa owning the rights to an entire wharf and passenger terminal there is not much need to 'sell' anything - if a '2nd best option' is forced on the COR/D

What 'event' has 'ETNZ gone for' again please?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, nav said:

Care to elucidate, because it seems to me that with Luna Rossa owning the rights to an entire wharf and passenger terminal there is not much need to 'sell' anything - if a '2nd best option' is forced on the COR/D

What 'event' has 'ETNZ gone for' again please?

Do you seriously think ETNZ will throw their toys out of the cot.

Dalton is pushing hard for a legacy structure at Hobson wharf and if ETNZ were to bail the resulting negative public opinion will be shared amongst all the present players.

That means bye bye finito permanently for ETNZ in Auckland.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/21/2018 at 8:50 AM, Priscilla said:

Do you seriously think ETNZ will throw their toys out of the cot.

Dalton is pushing hard for a legacy structure at Hobson wharf and if ETNZ were to bail the resulting negative public opinion will be shared amongst all the present players.

That means bye bye finito permanently for ETNZ in Auckland.

You're making some sweeping statements there. I would suggest that ETNZ would be looking to leverage any concessions they make to the hybrid proposal when they finalise the hosting fee which they'll be asking for. If they don't get it, I would suspect they already have a fall-back plan in place (including a substantial hosting fee} and they would defend in Italy.

ETNZ is a private team, with private funding. The only pull the government has is in appealing to the heart strings - they will be making a big mistake if they try to harvest public opinion to "shame" ETNZ into falling in line. ETNZ don't owe the government or NZ anything. We all bask vicariously in their success, but ultimately they should decide what is best for ETNZ, RNZYS and a successful defence in 2021.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/20/2018 at 11:50 AM, Priscilla said:

Do you seriously think ETNZ will throw their toys out of the cot.

Dalton is pushing hard for a legacy structure at Hobson wharf and if ETNZ were to bail the resulting negative public opinion will be shared amongst all the present players.

That means bye bye finito permanently for ETNZ in Auckland.

ETNZ is being promised a spectacular, permanent, brand new base - in all of the proposals so far.

That’s an impressive takeaway when you consider that, as even GD has already admitted, they have no negotiating power. ‘Italy’ is simply not going to happen absent severely unreasonable action taken by ETNZ.

The big 30,000’ picture is already good, it’s only a few minor details that remain.

As for the ‘hosting fee’ ETNZ is demanding, supposedly for the cost of running the event (GD again) well since it’s public money then why not let ATEED or whoever ran the Rugby WC be in charge of all that? GD was according to one article counting toilets, in handwriting on ‘reams of yellow pages’ - how silly is that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

..- how silly is that?

Not as silly as a 400-lb black guy in a basement spending all day cutting and pasting links and commenting on matters that have fuck-all to do with him. Haven't you got a black-lives-matter meeting with the African Diaspora Maritime Corporation AC team to attend??:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NZ media, all over this argument/fiasco approaching $200M already..

Another gap in the America’s Cup story

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/02/21/90065/another-gap-in-the-americas-cup-story

The bonus was that the minister's option was now declared cheaper - even though it and the council's previously $142m plan, had blown out to $185m and $200m respectively.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The biggest teams including Team NZ are expected to want to set up by the end of next year ..

Teams that can't set up the summer before the regatta, may not stay in Auckland for the full year 2020, reducing the economic benefit which is ultimately why public funding goes into the America's Cup.

 

umm.. Except for, for example, Luna Rossa who already announced a completely different, year-later timeline. The only pressing issue for ETNZ should be the completion date of their own base, it’s not at all clear that anyone else has much interest in those dates or format for the rest of the plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Indio said:

You're making some sweeping statements there. I would suggest that ETNZ would be looking to leverage any concessions they make to the hybrid proposal when they finalise the hosting fee which they'll be asking for. If they don't get it, I would suspect they already have a fall-back plan in place (including a substantial hosting fee} and they would defend in Italy.

ETNZ is a private team, with private funding. The only pull the government has is in appealing to the heart strings - they will be making a big mistake if they try to harvest public opinion to "shame" ETNZ into falling in line. ETNZ don't owe the government or NZ anything. We all bask vicariously in their success, but ultimately they should decide what is best for ETNZ, RNZYS and a successful defence in 2021.

I agree with your comments to a point but is ETNZ really a privately funded organization.

In my book ETNZ is more of a PPP.

Based on past example the public have stumped up for ETNZ and this surely gives them some say in the proceedings.

Dalton appears to turn a blind eye to this contribution and is now tasking the taxpayer/ ratepayer to wholly fund the infrastructure and the event fee without disclosing what or how much the private sector is actually contributing.

On a side note did Dalton ever publicly disclose  the latest "cost saver" revised AC base plan.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites