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AC36 - The Venue

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at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11999929

Simon Wilson: At last, a decent plan for the Cup

At last. Cut-through thinking that should allow a speedy end to the matter. Or, in some dark room are some darker minds plotting to obstruct this plan too? I really hope not.

The plan for siting the America's Cup bases proposed by Viaduct Harbour Holdings (VHH) ticks all the important boxes.

• It's going to be quicker and easier to build than other options, largely because it involves a much smaller extension of existing wharves.

• It will be cheaper, for the same reason.

• It will be less environmentally disruptive. It's the only option so far that genuinely restricts the wharf extensions to a minimum. And it beggars belief, now, that anyone has seriously contemplated a 70-metre extensions to Halsey Wharf, 100-metre breakwaters on the west side of Wynyard Point, and a row of 15-metre high warehouse-style buildings on Halsey and Hobson wharves that would block harbour views. None of that is needed.

(contd)

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8 hours ago, inebriated said:

what does it matter that he is black??

and how do you know what he looks like if you don't mind me asking...

In case it wasn’t painfully obvious by now: Indio is completely delusional, a serious nut-job.

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at http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/2018/02/team-nz-fires-back-after-executives-slam-wharf-design.html

The process of choosing a design for the America's Cup team bases in Auckland has turned messy and more than a little nasty.

A group of wealthy business executives has revealed they'll oppose the current proposals, prompting a none-too-polite response from Team New Zealand.

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45 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

The VHH plan, from http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/sport/land-holder-suggests-alternative-bases-for-americas-cup/

suggested-plans-harbour-supplied.jpg?mod

... 

VHH chief executive Angela Bull said its plan is cheaper, requires less encroachment into the harbour and produces a better outcome for Auckland.

She said the company is deeply concerned about a 75m extension to Halsey Wharf with 15m high syndicate bases blocking public views to the Waitemata Harbour.

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Audio

Another day, another America's Cup plan

The latest plan to host the 36th America's Cup on Auckland's waterfront is an alternative to the plan put forward last week by the Auckland Council and the government. But is it any good? Its backers say it'll be cheaper and won't encroach as much on the harbour, but it's been shot down by Team NZ. Kathryn Ryan talks to Viaduct Harbour Holdings Chief Executive Angela Bull and RNZ Auckland correspondent, Todd Niall.

https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018633375/another-day-another-america-s-cup-plan

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^ ‘So if the public wants to know what the hell’s going on, when is the next key date?’ 

‘The new close-date for the Resource Consent is apparently weeks away from Wednesday.’

me: and longer than that if VHH doesn’t get their way, since they say they will be lawyering up when it eventually goes to the Environmental Review, something VHH has successfully done before.

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11 hours ago, Wolkenzug said:

Wow. That plan is ridiculous. 

Any plan that thinks there will be 7 challengers is delusional.

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GD - "… but one imagines anything they come up with will be laced with money-making self-interest." 

Pot and kettle games. He is turning into a bit of a dick about this.

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3 minutes ago, Gissie said:

GD - "… but one imagines anything they come up with will be laced with money-making self-interest." 

Pot and kettle games. He is turning into a bit of a dick about this.

Love him or not, you have to respect Dalton's no-holds-barred approach to speaking his mind. I saw that quote, and thought 'yeah - go get um!'

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33 minutes ago, Gissie said:

GD - "… but one imagines anything they come up with will be laced with money-making self-interest." 

Pot and kettle games. He is turning into a bit of a dick about this.

That quote may or may not be from GD but yes, everyone involved in this fishbowl seems to be all about the money, Panuku included.

ETNZ needs to come clean about the potential number of Challengers and their plan-dates for arriving to Auckland. They are key to the decisions being argued over.

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25 minutes ago, Gissie said:

GD - "… but one imagines anything they come up with will be laced with money-making self-interest." 

Pot and kettle games. He is turning into a bit of a dick about this.

Dalton has got it bang on. These corporates are just trying to parasite their way on the AC36 wagon. And there's nothing wrong with ETNZ capitalising on their success.

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1 hour ago, surfsailor said:

Love him or not, you have to respect Dalton's no-holds-barred approach to speaking his mind. I saw that quote, and thought 'yeah - go get um!'

Genuine question - do we know that quote is from GD himself? The only time I saw it, it came "from a statement from ETNZ". It could have been PR team, Tindall or GD?

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

Genuine question - do we know that quote is from GD himself? The only time I saw it, it came "from a statement from ETNZ". It could have been PR team, Tindall or GD?

Matteo can fire away with the best of them, but it does sound like Dalton's usual direct counter.

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14 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Wow, big change

6OQWFN4DKZD2JJBI3LOIILDHGE.jpg

Meh, thats basically just the old Wynyard Point option.

Personally & I've said before the base 2 & 3 in that aren't actually bad location in terms of public access due to the existing East - West axis but using Lot 18 was already ruled out because its going to be developed for Superyacht servicing -> using it would reduce the Superyacht capacity & cost Council 7 digit rent $$$.

 

This one has significant downside of not utilising Te Wero & dragging all public access away from existing Eastern Viaduct restaurants.

 

I did call the option of not building wharf extensions if team numbers don't add up & first to go should be the Hobson extension IMO.

Though arguably it has more significant future utility than Halsey since can be used for a future Maritime Museum extension so maybe not.

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19 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

The VHH plan, from http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/sport/land-holder-suggests-alternative-bases-for-americas-cup/

suggested-plans-harbour-supplied.jpg?mod

... 

VHH chief executive Angela Bull said its plan is cheaper, requires less encroachment into the harbour and produces a better outcome for Auckland.

She said the company is deeply concerned about a 75m extension to Halsey Wharf with 15m high syndicate bases blocking public views to the Waitemata Harbour.

Wharf extension and syndicate bases will be temporary structures right?  I'd think the "public" can suck it up about losing their view of the harbor for a couple years for a Cup defense.  There has to be a couple polling organizations in Kiwiland.  Seems like the appropriate time to gauge the publics opinions on this.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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19 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Wharf extension and syndicate bases will be temporary structures right?  I'd think the "public" can suck it up about losing their view of the harbor for a couple years for a Cup defense.  There has to be a couple polling organizations in Kiwiland.  Seems like the appropriate time to gauge the publics opinions on this.

WetHog  :ph34r:

The long-term public interest, the ‘legacy’ potential, surely lies in the gradual cleanup of Wynyard Point. Hard to know what all’s possible there, given the timeline.

Anyway.. 

 

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On 2/23/2018 at 3:31 PM, hoom said:

Meh, thats basically just the old Wynyard Point option.

Personally & I've said before the base 2 & 3 in that aren't actually bad location in terms of public access due to the existing East - West axis but using Lot 18 was already ruled out because its going to be developed for Superyacht servicing -> using it would reduce the Superyacht capacity & cost Council 7 digit rent $$$.

 

This one has significant downside of not utilising Te Wero & dragging all public access away from existing Eastern Viaduct restaurants.

 

I did call the option of not building wharf extensions if team numbers don't add up & first to go should be the Hobson extension IMO.

Though arguably it has more significant future utility than Halsey since can be used for a future Maritime Museum extension so maybe not.

the problem with bases 2&3 is that they aren't deep enough, so you'd have to dredge them fairly significantly, with the associated environmental issues from that

the VHH plan is a joke and would fuck the whole lot up, making NZ look like a bunch of numpties (which is probably accurate for anything organised between Auckland Council and a Labour Govt)

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On 2/24/2018 at 3:49 AM, WetHog said:

Wharf extension and syndicate bases will be temporary structures right?  I'd think the "public" can suck it up about losing their view of the harbor for a couple years for a Cup defense.  There has to be a couple polling organizations in Kiwiland.  Seems like the appropriate time to gauge the publics opinions on this.

WetHog  :ph34r:

One thing that really pisses me off is the same old refrain from the "save our harbour" types about "losing the view".

I walk the circuit around the whole viaduct basin including Silo park and North Wharf almost every lunchtime during a working week, and all the people I watch are mostly interested in looking at the restaurants, architecture, and superyachts moored close to that main public route. What I NEVER SEE are people on Te Wero Island, or the lifting bridge, going "wow, look across the tops of the fishing boats past Halsey wharf to the view of the North Shore". For those that want a closer look at the harbour, they either walk to the outer end of Princes Wharf or Wynyard point, where both provide a far better vista than can be seen from the viaduct.

My wife and I visited the Volvo village on Saturday, and all the teams have erected identical prefabricated buildings on the outer Halsey Wharf (where some of the America's Cup teams were planned to set up bases in the accepted original "hybrid" option). Although these buildings are less than 15 m high, they already block the view across the harbour so a 15 m high building will make no difference.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the flood of letters to the Herald complaining about the lost views, but I bet there will be none. It just isn't a big deal to the public, and I believe it's being used extremely cynically by a vociferous minority to sway public opinion.

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36 minutes ago, meanermachine said:

the problem with bases 2&3 is that they aren't deep enough, so you'd have to dredge them fairly significantly

Yes I had intended to mention that part also but appear to have ommitted it :o

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1 hour ago, Count Drac said:

One thing that really pisses me off is the same old refrain from the "save our harbour" types about "losing the view".

I walk the circuit around the whole viaduct basin including Silo park and North Wharf almost every lunchtime during a working week, and all the people I watch are mostly interested in looking at the restaurants, architecture, and superyachts moored close to that main public route. What I NEVER SEE are people on Te Wero Island, or the lifting bridge, going "wow, look across the tops of the fishing boats past Halsey wharf to the view of the North Shore". For those that want a closer look at the harbour, they either walk to the outer end of Princes Wharf or Wynyard point, where both provide a far better vista than can be seen from the viaduct.

My wife and I visited the Volvo village on Saturday, and all the teams have erected identical prefabricated buildings on the outer Halsey Wharf (where some of the America's Cup teams were planned to set up bases in the accepted original "hybrid" option). Although these buildings are less than 15 m high, they already block the view across the harbour so a 15 m high building will make no difference.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the flood of letters to the Herald complaining about the lost views, but I bet there will be none. It just isn't a big deal to the public, and I believe it's being used extremely cynically by a vociferous minority to sway public opinion.

"Pissed off" barely describes it. You're right of course except you missed calling out WetHog on the proposed wharf extensions.  They would be permanent but is this a problem? Of course not!  As I've noted previously they would be perfect open real estate for a variety of future public uses. Volvo visits, wine festivals, seafood festivals and boat shows spring immediately to mind.  There ain't enough open space in this corner of the harbour that is increasingly dedicated to public activities.

Something now missing in the VHH plan is a dedicated home for ETNZ.  Christ only knows they deserve it and have earned it multiple times.  It was to have been built on a wharf extension at the end of the Maritime Museum, permanently displacing the rusty and decrepit old steam driven floating crane. I kinda liked see this old heritage item there but I'm sure that too was on the VHH shit list.

And it was all developing oh so nicely up until Christmas, before know-it-all Minister David Parker upset the apple cart!

 

 

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What should I be called out for this time?   My comment expresses my opinion that the public probably doesnt give a shit about losing views of the harbor if it means a Cup base.  Hence why I brought up polling the masses instead of realying on the word of one lady who has an agenda to push. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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‘Tensions rising over AC’ (radio) me: it’s possible that both Goff and Parker have been unhappy with ‘officials’ at Panuku

http://castbox.fm/episode/Tensions-rising-over-America's-Cup-village-id18094-id66970838

edit:+

Tensions rising over America's Cup village

With no sign of agreement on an America's Cup Village plan for Auckland, the two key politicians, Auckland's mayor Phil Goff and cabinet minister David Parker, appear to have become frustrated with their officials. The exchanges between the two lead negotiators dealing with the cup defender Team New Zealand, convey frustration from late December. RNZ Auckland correspondent Todd Niall obtained the correspondence and joins us 

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As far as broadcasting the event  goes I think it is going to be more convenient to follow from Italy anyway :) 

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10 hours ago, WetHog said:

What should I be called out for this time?   My comment expresses my opinion that the public probably doesnt give a shit about losing views of the harbor if it means a Cup base.  Hence why I brought up polling the masses instead of realying on the word of one lady who has an agenda to push. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Sorry WetHog, my post was not a comment on your post, but a general observation on one of the problems we have in establishing the bases for the next AC (if that was what your post above was about).

You just happened to bring it up, and I expanded on it from my point of view (and agreed with you in the process).

 

Cheers, Drac.

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8 hours ago, Count Drac said:

Sorry WetHog, my post was not a comment on your post, but a general observation on one of the problems we have in establishing the bases for the next AC (if that was what your post above was about).

You just happened to bring it up, and I expanded on it from my point of view (and agreed with you in the process).

 

Cheers, Drac.

No reason to apologize.  My previous comment was directed at KiwiJoker.  I should of quoted him directly and made it more clear.

Actually, I could of done a better job articulating my opinion in my comment that started all this.  So yeah, all on me.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Am Cup: Political shiacking triggers OIA Request

Richard on the turps?

I mean "Am Cup" is bad enough, "OIA" is hardly going to make sense to an international audience, but "shiacking" - that's not even a word!?

 

still let's just get on with it and go with this - more room, good sight lines

image.png.f07b908351c2645ee4843e62b6b3b98e.png

and leave the clean up 'til later

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"Information does not always appear to have been presented to both of us in a timely or consistent manner," wrote Mr Goff to the Mr Parker on 22 January.

"I share your view fully that our decision-making must be informed by coherent and comprehensive advice from our officials and other stakeholders."

This suggests some less-than-proper motivations by Panuku in their costings for the options they didn't support, and for the ones they did. Panuku's role should be investigated further...

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On 25/02/2018 at 8:29 PM, Count Drac said:

One thing that really pisses me off is the same old refrain from the "save our harbour" types about "losing the view".

I walk the circuit around the whole viaduct basin including Silo park and North Wharf almost every lunchtime during a working week, and all the people I watch are mostly interested in looking at the restaurants, architecture, and superyachts moored close to that main public route. What I NEVER SEE are people on Te Wero Island, or the lifting bridge, going "wow, look across the tops of the fishing boats past Halsey wharf to the view of the North Shore". For those that want a closer look at the harbour, they either walk to the outer end of Princes Wharf or Wynyard point, where both provide a far better vista than can be seen from the viaduct.

My wife and I visited the Volvo village on Saturday, and all the teams have erected identical prefabricated buildings on the outer Halsey Wharf (where some of the America's Cup teams were planned to set up bases in the accepted original "hybrid" option). Although these buildings are less than 15 m high, they already block the view across the harbour so a 15 m high building will make no difference.

I'm waiting in anticipation for the flood of letters to the Herald complaining about the lost views, but I bet there will be none. It just isn't a big deal to the public, and I believe it's being used extremely cynically by a vociferous minority to sway public opinion.

I think you are wrong. I think there will be wowsers complaining about the lost views.

But those same wowsers will never have actually taken those views in.

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20 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Here's how you can help Team NZ keep the Cup in Auckland

by Richard Gladwell

https://www.sail-world.com/news/202429/Help-Team-NZ-to-hold-the-Americas-Cup

Thanks Sting.  Gotta say that RG's pitch for support of the Panaku Developments' application ticks all the boxes.  His is a detailed and thoughtful analysis of all the issues in play.  And it is devoid of the political and NIMBY machinations that are skewing the issue. 

Here's an opportunity  for all of us who care about a successful AC in Auckland to write in support of the Panaku and ETNZ applications. His discussion provides a detailed and valid template for any supporters who want to comment.  Precis  it, borrow from it, adapt it, use it in its entirety ..... but add your voice in support of ETNZ.  Don't just write in yourself. Encourage your mates to add their views too. 

Remember, you don't have to be a Kiwi to write in support.  What's needed is the voice of experience when it comes to AC villages.  What better than a little international flavour.

And Clean, if you're reading this, please make RG's plea a Front Page item!

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RG refers to an alternate submission made by ETNZ a week ago, immediately before the fucked-up and self-serving plan submitted by Viaduct Harbour Holdings.  Did I miss something?  Can anyone point me to the team submission?

 

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6 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

RG refers to an alternate submission made by ETNZ a week ago, immediately before the fucked-up and self-serving plan submitted by Viaduct Harbour Holdings.  Did I miss something?  Can anyone point me to the team submission?

 

It’s in a diagram at here: https://www.sail-world.com/news/202320/Americas-Cup--Mayor-questioned-on-Bases-brouhaha

yysw191518.jpg

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7 bases shown on the plan.

A portion of the existing events centre is now in the mix.

Vehicle access is going to be a weakness.

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46 minutes ago, Priscilla said:

7 bases shown on the plan.

A portion of the existing events centre is now in the mix.

Vehicle access is going to be a weakness.

Agree, 7.

The VHH threat to take various plans to a (possibly protracted) lawsuit must surely be a consideration in what’ll be acceptable to the various parties. 

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

Does ETNZ concede the need for only 6 bases now? :huh:

Unless teams will get to have double wides that is still to many.

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9 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Agree, 7.

The VHH threat to take various plans to a (possibly protracted) lawsuit must surely be a consideration in what’ll be acceptable to the various parties. 

Thanks for the amended ETNZ plan.  It's the most compact yet, tucks all the bases onto piers with sheltered docks while at the same time offering the best public access of any of the proposals. The 7th base is a bit of a mystery. If I read the plan correctly its slap on top of the Viaduct Events Centre which is already mooted as the Media Centre.

How superbly ironic that VHH which owes the original Viaduct America's Cup Harbour to its very existence is now threatening to gum up the works because it objects to a few square metres of concrete piers with temporary structures that will be removed after the event. Oh, wait, they also object to the long overdue and well-deserved permanent base for the country's winning America's Cup team. Now there's gratitude for you! 

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 "Now there's gratitude for you! '

VHH are self interested profiteers not socially minded whatsoever.

When the Viaduct basin was remodelled for the first AC the developers sought to build right to the water's edge and exclude public access.

 

 

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VHH plan to build a hotel where HQ is. They are worried about their view should the ETNZ/council plan prevail - hence their suggestion.

VHH neighbors are worried about them going up many many stories .... nothing to do with the cup - just developer interest. A new hotel should be no higher than the surrounding buildings IMHO.

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1 hour ago, KiwiJoker said:

Thanks for the amended ETNZ plan.  It's the most compact yet, tucks all the bases onto piers with sheltered docks while at the same time offering the best public access of any of the proposals. The 7th base is a bit of a mystery. If I read the plan correctly its slap on top of the Viaduct Events Centre which is already mooted as the Media Centre.

How superbly ironic that VHH which owes the original Viaduct America's Cup Harbour to its very existence is now threatening to gum up the works because it objects to a few square metres of concrete piers with temporary structures that will be removed after the event. Oh, wait, they also object to the long overdue and well-deserved permanent base for the country's winning America's Cup team. Now there's gratitude for you! 

Yes, VHH has ‘ironically’ very valuable property interests. But your ‘a few square metres of concrete piers’ underestimates the scale of the ETNZ (Tindall?) desires, backed hard by Panuku who appears far more interested in building out new real estate into the harbor and who appears to have intentionally trashed the Wynyard Point cleanup alternatives as unworkable in the Dec 15 meeting, without even asking Stolthaven about the possibility they could vacate.

My guess is that the money involved in this decision weighs in a whole lot bigger than whatever AC36 might bring in, in Superyacht servicing and whatever else is being event-fantasized. And that VHH recognizes this.

For different reasons Panuku and ETNZ’s interests do intersect but neither of them have the agreement of who would have to pay, long-term.

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21 hours ago, KiwiJoker said:

Thanks Sting.  Gotta say that RG's pitch for support of the Panaku Developments' application ticks all the boxes.  His is a detailed and thoughtful analysis of all the issues in play.  And it is devoid of the political and NIMBY machinations that are skewing the issue. 

Here's an opportunity  for all of us who care about a successful AC in Auckland to write in support of the Panaku and ETNZ applications. His discussion provides a detailed and valid template for any supporters who want to comment.  Precis  it, borrow from it, adapt it, use it in its entirety ..... but add your voice in support of ETNZ.  Don't just write in yourself. Encourage your mates to add their views too. 

Remember, you don't have to be a Kiwi to write in support.  What's needed is the voice of experience when it comes to AC villages.  What better than a little international flavour.

And Clean, if you're reading this, please make RG's plea a Front Page item!

I just completed my submission, might consider attending the event too... any takers?

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8 hours ago, nav said:

Also submitted, can't attend....go do us proud :)

Submission made - share it around peeps.

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On 1/03/2018 at 11:49 AM, Priscilla said:

A portion of the existing events centre is now in the mix.

Thats insane.

Can't just go cutting up the events center.

I thought that was a J for jury/race committee which would make sense in the events center.

 

 

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23 hours ago, hoom said:

Thats insane.

Can't just go cutting up the events center.

I thought that was a J for jury/race committee which would make sense in the events center.

 

Right on!  The ETNZ modified plan shows bases numbered in stylistic graphics.  I believe it's supposed to show seven bases.

What appears to be a "J" is actually number "7"  It is slap in the middle of the existing Viaduct Events Centre, a new and substantial two-story building which is mooted as home for the AC Media Centre and presumably other event management functions. 

 

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On 3/1/2018 at 9:16 PM, rh2600 said:

I just completed my submission, might consider attending the event too... any takers?

So, including nav and Sea Breeze 74,  that makes at least three Anarchists writing to support the Panuku Resource Comment submission.

RG will make a fourth and I plan to be a fifth.  Still working on text. And hope to attend hearing, 

There is still time to write in favour of the Panaku plan.   You have until 14th March.  Clicking here for an online Submission form

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Fascinating to see RGs conversion from 'gotta be the waterworld base setup or ETNZ should take it overseas' to 'HHW is the bees knees' <_<

 

I don't mind the ETNZ plan as long as its only 6 base, leaving the events center alone but bases 5 & 6 have pretty limited public view unless people take a big walk over to Wynyard.

With no bases over on Wynyard that side of the basin can be used for more Superyacht berthing which should be a boon for  Team New Zealand Superyacht Services Ltd. :lol:

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On 3/2/2018 at 8:24 PM, hoom said:

Fascinating to see RGs conversion from 'gotta be the waterworld base setup or ETNZ should take it overseas' to 'HHW is the bees knees' <_<

 

I don't mind the ETNZ plan as long as its only 6 base, leaving the events center alone but bases 5 & 6 have pretty limited public view unless people take a big walk over to Wynyard.

With no bases over on Wynyard that side of the basin can be used for more Superyacht berthing which should be a boon for  Team New Zealand Superyacht Services Ltd. :lol:

More fun for RG to take on..

Minister's trip may delay America's Cup village decisions

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/351882/minister-s-trip-may-delay-america-s-cup-village-decisions

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^ from there, am wondering ‘so what?’ since even the CoR won’t arrive until late 2020? They have time to sort this out 

 

Officials in Auckland fear that missing the 14 March deadline could have a domino effect on the project, meaning bases might not be ready as hoped, in the summer of 2019/20 for teams arriving a year ahead of the 2020/21 regatta.

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But then from RG at https://www.sail-world.com/news/202598

Gladwell's Line: America's Cup Auckland - will history repeat?

by Richard Gladwell

... That means they will sail their first AC75’s in the northern hemisphere in 2019-2020 and then relocate to New Zealand in the period June 2020 - October 2020. 

This second scenario at least halves the economic benefit to NZ Inc from team spend.

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With eight days remaining to the current deadline for submitting comments to the proposal for resource consent for America's Cup 36 we have all the makings for a perfect storm.

Auckland as the host city has undertaken to put the wheels in motion.  After a rough start, it reached consensus with ETNZ weeks ago and the Council's Panaku Developments arm has filed a massive document incorporating their ideas with all the environmental and engineering data necessary for fast tracking the application to the Environment Court. 

The NZ Government. which has agreed to underwrite a major portion of hosting costs, was unable to  reach agreement and incorporate it's ideas because David Parker, the govt's Attorney-General, Minister for Economic Development, Environment and Trade and Export Growth, plus Associate Minister of Finance, was off at a trade coherence in South Africa.  The Auckland Council went ahead and filed without him.

Further complications arrived as Auckland's Mayor Goff reached some new agreements with Parker, while ETNZ came up with fine-tuning to further reduce the Panaku plan.

It's not clear but it appears that if Parker wants the Govt to be part of the Resource Consent he'll need to reach agreement with the Council and ETNZ  and adopt the Panaku groundwork, presumably with modifications agreed by all the parties. Problem is, as Todd Niall reports, he's off on another international mission.

Meanwhile, the NIMBY sharks are circling, chief among them Viaduct Harbour Holdings which would like to see the Panuku plan abandoned in favour of all Cup development on temporary locations on polluted land Wynyard Wharf. In effect they want to sandwich our international visitors into bases flanked by a decaying and polluted industrial wasteland. Kia ora. Welcome to Clean Green New Zealand.

 

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15 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

But then from RG at https://www.sail-world.com/news/202598

Gladwell's Line: America's Cup Auckland - will history repeat?

by Richard Gladwell

... That means they will sail their first AC75’s in the northern hemisphere in 2019-2020 and then relocate to New Zealand in the period June 2020 - October 2020. 

This second scenario at least halves the economic benefit to NZ Inc from team spend.

 

That took a while to sink in..........

On 1/19/2018 at 3:10 PM, nav said:

^ Don't the Auckland sourced time lines all assume occupation in summer 2019/20, yet there have been indications that this may not happen (for all teams anyway) until 2020/21

Needs sorting....before the "building 24/7" talk can be taken seriously - not to mention that the number of bases needed will also play a role.....

 

 

On 1/14/2018 at 8:35 PM, nav said:

That sounds pretty good actually. A consent in the works, a second option being investigated. Looks like Auckland would be more than happy to see Wellington expedite the removal of the tanks and restoration of the point - if they can be bothered. Fair enough.

If there is only going to be practice leading up to the Xmas regatta and then on to the CSS (as per LR) and the Match then there is not that much pressure anyway.

Of course ETNZ will set up earlier and there is nothing to say other Challengers (assuming there are some) will not also want to train on the course.

But they can only do that if their boat is not on a ship somewhere between Prada events.......so how much action and "tenancy" can Auckland really expect, given the various restrictions in the Protocol?

Maybe ETNZ sees most of the normal hoopla as simple distraction that makes it less likely they will be able to defend, but if it all becomes super minimalistic even if they were to successfully defend, apart from their own jobs will other hoped for/promised/realised in the past, benefits actually accrue?

 

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Yep, many of us have been making the point that this timeline seems artificial. It is RG who seems to be intentionally ignoring it, presumably because it undercuts a key argument, speed, that he makes for his own (and presumably ETNZ's) preference.

If the intensity of either the VHH or SOH opposition to the two currently-consented plans is high enough that this is going to end up in Appeals to the Environment Court, well then they'd be better off re-focusing on late 2020 regardless.

Lately RG has been posting old pics of the ex-Luna Rossa Base in Cagliari, in it's former location, presumably as a gun-to-the-head argument, which seems to be getting a bit desperate since there's still plenty of time for something to work out.

 

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30 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Yep, many of us have been making the point that this timeline seems artificial. It is RG who seems to be intentionally ignoring it,

What do you mean by "this timeline" exactly ^ ?

What is he ignoring?

 

To be clear RG says...

Time critical:

Time is now even more important than money.

The base construction needs to start in September of this year, for bases to be available in October 2019) so that teams can get to Auckland and set up for a summer training and testing at the Cup venue. Normally that would start in October 2019 run to the end of the Cup Regatta to the end of summer/Match in April 2021.

If the project is delayed through restarting Resource Consent applications (as in MBIE and VHHL proposals above), then the visiting Teams will be forced into running a two-season strategy.

That means they will sail their first AC75’s in the northern hemisphere in 2019-2020 and then relocate to New Zealand in the period June 2020 - October 2020.

This second scenario at least halves the economic benefit to NZ Inc from team spend. In fact probably more so as there is a strong option for boats (other than hulls) to be constructed in New Zealand facilities - either by the teams themselves or using NZ marine and composite construction firms.

 

Gun to the head, or fair warning grounded in AC history. I guess that depends how you spin it.......

History never repeats?

The current plans and background work developed by Panuku Developments are well researched and are excellent documents.

They have been responsive to logical input and challenge and have made amendments accordingly, however like ETNZ they would seem to be getting very little support. Certainly, any proposal should be challenged, but that must be constructive, and not using the occasion to drive other agendas.

What is overlooked in this current exercise is that Oracle Team USA/Golden Gate Yacht Club, after defending the America's Cup in 2013, walked away from San Francisco as a venue for the 2017 Regatta for very similar reasons with the San Francisco authorities which we are now seeing being played out in Auckland.

The decision to host the 2007 America's Cup in Valencia, rather than Cascais, Portugal also came completely out of the blue.

The departure of Russell Coutts, Brad Butterworth and friends to the welcoming arms of Ernesto Bertarelli in May 2000, also happened very abruptly. While some of what happens in the America's Cup is signalled or can easily be deduced, much of it is not.

It should come to the surprise of no-one to see history repeat in 2018.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/202598

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Prominent Aucklanders enter America's Cup base row to push for land-based solution

Prominent architects, academics, legal figures and resident groups have entered the America's Cup base row in an open letter published in today's Herald.

Distinguished academic Dame Anne Salmond, retired Court of Appeal judge Sir "Ted" Thomas and many of Auckland's top architects are calling on the Government, Auckland Council and Team New Zealand to adopt a land-based solution for the cup bases.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12007543

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4 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Which plan has SSOH’s support?

I guess it’s almost the same one as VHH, per this latest article.

It is very similar to the option put forward by Viaduct Harbour Holdings - a company owned by some of New Zealand's richest businessmen who own 20ha of prime waterfront land around Wynyard Quarter.

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19 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

More fun for RG to take on..

Minister's trip may delay America's Cup village decisions

https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/351882/minister-s-trip-may-delay-america-s-cup-village-decisions

Same subject, radio

https://player.fm/series/rnz-morning-report/further-delay-on-auckland-americas-cup-plans-expected

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8 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

I guess it’s almost the same one as VHH, per this latest article.

It is very similar to the option put forward by Viaduct Harbour Holdings - a company owned by some of New Zealand's richest businessmen who own 20ha of prime waterfront land around Wynyard Quarter.

Yeah if you wanted further impetus to question SSOH's true agenda, witness their very odd support for VHH.

VHH represent all that is wrong with society, and SSOH are under their wing - showing their true colours... its interesting to see them get called out on their fb page by people that would otherwise support them.

 

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3 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Yeah if you wanted further impetus to question SSOH's true agenda, witness their very odd support for VHH.

VHH represent all that is wrong with society, and SSOH are under their wing - showing their true colours... its interesting to see them get called out on their fb page by people that would otherwise support them.

 

Another today, at http://auckland.scoop.co.nz/2018/03/advocacy-group-ballots-for-the-basin-for-americas-cup/

The Stop Stealing Our Harbour Advocacy group has come out strongly in favour of the creation of an America’s Cup Village around the Wynyard Basin, directly in front of the North Wharf entertainment hub. Stop Stealing Our Harbour spokesman Michael Goldwater says this option has multiple benefits even as the clock is ticking towards the arrival of the first teams, expected in the latter part of next year.

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An interesting letter in today's nzherald.co.nz Unfortunately the signatories wouldn't have known that Emirates Team New Zealand has an unconditional promise from Minister David Parker for a permanent legacy base on Hobson Wharf in a face to face meeting one month ago.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12007543

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15 minutes ago, ezyb said:

This is fast becoming worse than the SF boondoggle.  See y'all in Italy. 

It's getting close to pulling-the-pin time for Dalts. Too many now wanting to dip their snouts into the trough...

I'd have no problem supporting ETNZ wherever they choose to defend..

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On 2/26/2018 at 8:17 AM, nav said:

Am Cup: Political shiacking triggers OIA Request

Richard on the turps?

I mean "Am Cup" is bad enough, "OIA" is hardly going to make sense to an international audience, but "shiacking" - that's not even a word!?

 

still let's just get on with it and go with this - more room, good sight lines

image.png.f07b908351c2645ee4843e62b6b3b98e.png

and leave the clean up 'til later

looks good 

 

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14 minutes ago, MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS said:

looks good 

 

Hey, great to see you again:D

5a9f7a92953e6_welcomeback.jpg.cb075b6b53231886e2cb203425a694f0.jpg

 

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Australian Word Map - Macquarie Dictionary

 

Contributor's comments: This was used in this area nd parts of Victoria around the 1940s and perhaps into the mid 1950s. Shiacking (however spelt) meant "mucking about (or around)". Acting the goat - Stop acting the goat - Don't be a nanny - were also used, but not with "shiacking" as a prefix to the expression.

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What a gigantic clusterfuck this is turning out to be.

Every little sector and lobby group in Auckland all pushing their own cause with no thought as to the practicalities and the big picture.

This can all be sheeted home to David -wife stealer- Parker wanting to build Labour votes in AKL by using the AC as a tool to clear up Wynyard Wharf.

Auckland is now is serious danger of losing the event, and if it doesn't, will probably have a compromise that makes NZ look like a pack of useless cunts.

Just another reason to hate Auckland haha.

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8 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Groups call for minimal Auckland wharf extensions

More than 100 groups and individuals are joining the debate on an America's Cup Village in Auckland, taking out a full-page newspaper advertisement.

Back in your post #861 you asked "Which plan has SOH’s support?"

It's pretty clear now that SOH has its own plan, or probably VHH's plan which it has been shopping around to 100 or more largely disinterested parties most of whom would't know the sharp end from the blunt end of a boat.

And you can bet few or none of them have been down to Wynyard Point and stood next to the small polluted Stolthaven plot that at best will deliver space for a single AC base, that's assuming it can be cleared and remediated in time. 

Of course the SOH letter totally fails to recognise the complications that will ensue if/when ETNZ retains the AC and needs to defend again.

And how much weight will one letter signed by "Distinguish academic Dame Anne Salmond, retired Court of Appeal judge Sir "Ted" Thomas and many of Auckland's top architects carry in the Environment Court process?   

In a few weeks we'll know how many submissions have been made regarding the Panaku Plan, the signatories, and the views they espouse. The pros and cons.

It's clear there are a bunch of Anarchists here who get it.  If you haven't written in support, time to do it.

 

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6 hours ago, robberzdog said:

Australian Word Map - Macquarie Dictionary

 

Contributor's comments: This was used in this area nd parts of Victoria around the 1940s and perhaps into the mid 1950s. Shiacking (however spelt) meant "mucking about (or around)". Acting the goat - Stop acting the goat - Don't be a nanny - were also used, but not with "shiacking" as a prefix to the expression.

Thanks for explaining that.

So not only archaic but only ever of localised use and doesn't exist in most dictionaries - how the hell did RG/the headline writer think that was acceptable English for a www publication? Is he/she an octogenarian from Victoria?

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From the above RG article - beautifully put in my opinion

 

"In the current exercise, the point seems to be overlooked that America’s Cup is a sailing regatta sailed and won on the water. It is not a town planning exercise at the end of which a regatta is held to celebrate the creation of a new piece of host city infrastructure"

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18 hours ago, Stingray~ said:

Groups call for minimal Auckland wharf extensions

More than 100 groups and individuals are joining the debate on an America's Cup Village in Auckland, taking out a full-page newspaper advertisement.

More about Stuart Smith, mentioned in there, from 2015

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/front-page-top-stories/news/article.cfm?c_id=698&objectid=11421174

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2 hours ago, Rangi said:

From the above RG article - beautifully put in my opinion

 

"In the current exercise, the point seems to be overlooked that America’s Cup is a sailing regatta sailed and won on the water. It is not a town planning exercise at the end of which a regatta is held to celebrate the creation of a new piece of host city infrastructure"

Yes it’s put well enough but IF one of the more land-based plans could be realized then the long-term ‘legacy’ might well be better served at the same time. It must surely be at least a consideration given the probable $200M about to get sunk into whatever happens since the ‘host city’ and hopefully the Govt will be footing that infrastructure bill.

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

Yes it’s put well enough but IF one of the more land-based plans could be realized then the long-term ‘legacy’ might well be better served at the same time. It must surely be at least a consideration given the probable $200M about to get sunk into whatever happens since the ‘host city’ and hopefully the Govt will be footing that infrastructure bill.

And you questioned me when I said NZ has the ability to truly fuck this up. Shame on you Stinger!

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36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

And you questioned me when I said NZ has the ability to truly fuck this up. Shame on you Stinger!

I did?? Lol, sorry for doubting you, Champ.

Thing is, since ETNZ gets a new, permanent, taxpayer-paid-for base in all 5 (?) of the plans going around, why do they care so much about if the other bases are land or wharf-based? 

Nobody else is going to go down ‘early’ in 2019, their CoR has already announced that for in their case. LRBAR has a massive base in Portsmouth, and QR is talking Newport and Charleston or Florida for their preparations.

Shouldn’t ETNZ care mostly about their own situation, not worry too much about the Chall bases timeline, the Superyacht guy (Busfield?) and whoever-all else? It’s not like ETNZ has any nogotiating power, the threat to take it to Italy is being met with a ‘so what?’ by everybody so far. If they refuse anything and it went ‘to Italy’ they won’t get even their own base.. Not going to happen unless LR provides one for them in Cagliari - which I seriously doubt is in anyone’s plan.

 

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23 hours ago, Indio said:

It's getting close to pulling-the-pin time for Dalts. Too many now wanting to dip their snouts into the trough...

I'd have no problem supporting ETNZ wherever they choose to defend..

^ Agreed

Go back to the aftermath of AC34 and ETNZ were labelled public enemy no.1 by much of the population. The government said "fuck off - no more money" and everyone else cried about how badly DB had been treated.

Now everyone wants in on the action. Piss off - ETNZ did this alone. I'll be terribly disappointed if they go to Italy but it would serve the fuckwits right if the do.

 

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36 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

I'll be terribly disappointed if they go to Italy but it would serve the fuckwits right if the do.

 

As a side note, a word of caution: don't take it for granted that holding the AC in Italy would be all smooth sailing. True, the pier situation in Cagliari should be adequate as is, especially if the number of challengers stays at the present, disappointing level. But last Sunday's general election drastically changed the likelihood that the State would cover significant costs, the venue fee chiefly. The populist 5 Star Party won big and is bound to take the lead in the next government, and I'm afraid nothing would please its Lumpen base more than nixing a game for the rich

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41 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

^ Agreed

Go back to the aftermath of AC34 and ETNZ were labelled public enemy no.1 by much of the population. The government said "fuck off - no more money" and everyone else cried about how badly DB had been treated.

 

That’s around the time when GD was also being harshly questioned. And unlike the posters drinking the ‘everybody was out trying to destroy ETNZ’ conspiracy theorists koolaid drinkers trying to spin things, it is also when RC and JS got asked, yes asked in NZ, without bringing it up or prompting the questions themselves, who else might possibly take over should GD take the exit door and retire - as GD himself had already suggested he might do. BB put his hand up, and GD later took it as yet another threat launched by his perceived enemies.

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