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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
badlatitude

Trumpito Jr's Statement That Will Send Him To Jail

358 posts in this topic

Too bad WD is unable to access the forum, this news would make him puke on himself before he stumbled to the liquor cabinet for his nerves. Collusion Baby, from the mouths of children.

 

"The Times on Sunday reported that the president's eldest son was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton before meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer at Trump Tower in New York on June 9, 2016. 

As Times reporters Jo Becker, Matt Apuzzo and Adam Goldman explained, Trump Jr.’s motivation for agreeing to the meeting “points to the central question in federal investigations of the Kremlin’s meddling in the presidential election: whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians. The accounts of the meeting represent the first public indication that at least some in the campaign were willing to accept Russian help.” 

Paul Manafort, the campaign’s chairman at the time, and Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, also attended."

 https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.108ba2ceac73

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Presidential pardon will fix all that.....:rolleyes:

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This lawyer they met with represents several of the original Russian oligarch types who fell afoul of the Magnitsky Act, named after Sergei Manitsky who died in a Russian jail after exposing Russian political and national corruption. The 2012 bill, which had bipartisan support and was signed by Obama, led to severe restrictions on travel and financial transactions on Russian individuals, and caused Putin to refuse adoption by American couples of Russian babies. Hence, the dodge by Trump's minions that the meeting was about adoption policies. 

Jared Kushner "forgot" to report this contact with Russians when applying for security clearances, but this will be unlikely to cause him too much problems, unless the plot thickens significantly. He plans to update his FBI filings quickly in light of these reports.

Seems the campaign manager, the GOP nominee's son and son-in law met with the Russian lawyer because she promised them dirt on Clinton. In return, it appears she (the Russian lawyer) wanted assurances that Trump would ease enforcement of the Magnitsky Act on her clients. It appears that either Kushner or Manafort exited the meeting after her agenda became clear. 

Kudos to the investigative journalism that brought this to light, since the principals involved would much rather have their lies be taken as fact, that they "never met with Russians, or were aware of such meetings having been set up." And since the bait offered was dirt on the Clinton campaign, they have ensured that the investigative game will go on. Because if we've learned anything, it is that this administration will always first lie, then prevaricate, then finally update their FBI disclosure forms. If nothing else, we are realizing the degree of contact this administration had with the Russians during the campaign, and that serves as a useful check  when they offer policy changes in response to negotiations with Putin & company.

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4 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Presidential pardon will fix all that.....:rolleyes:

Nope, Donnie cannot pardon in an investigation.

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3 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

This lawyer they met with represents several of the original Russian oligarch types who fell afoul of the Magnitsky Act, named after Sergei Manitsky who died in a Russian jail after exposing Russian political and national corruption. The 2012 bill, which had bipartisan support and was signed by Obama, led to severe restrictions on travel and financial transactions on Russian individuals, and caused Putin to refuse adoption by American couples of Russian babies. Hence, the dodge by Trump's minions that the meeting was about adoption policies. 

Jared Kushner "forgot" to report this contact with Russians when applying for security clearances, but this will be unlikely to cause him too much problems, unless the plot thickens significantly. He plans to update his FBI filings quickly in light of these reports.

Seems the campaign manager, the GOP nominee's son and son-in law met with the Russian lawyer because she promised them dirt on Clinton. In return, it appears she (the Russian lawyer) wanted assurances that Trump would ease enforcement of the Magnitsky Act on her clients. It appears that either Kushner or Manafort exited the meeting after her agenda became clear. 

Kudos to the investigative journalism that brought this to light, since the principals involved would much rather have their lies be taken as fact, that they "never met with Russians, or were aware of such meetings having been set up." And since the bait offered was dirt on the Clinton campaign, they have ensured that the investigative game will go on. Because if we've learned anything, it is that this administration will always first lie, then prevaricate, then finally update their FBI disclosure forms. If nothing else, we are realizing the degree of contact this administration had with the Russians during the campaign, and that serves as a useful check  when they offer policy changes in response to negotiations with Putin & company.

He had a responsibility to report this incident to law enforcement when a foreign agent offered him access to stolen information. So whatever way this goes he will have to answer for that.

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Just now, badlatitude said:

Nope, Donnie cannot pardon in an investigation.

Ford pardoned Nixon for all potential future criminal convictions for activities, past, future, or present.

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6 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Nope, Donnie cannot pardon in an investigation.

Ding. The investigation will continue as long as there is stuff to find or Trump is impeached. He may never see a day in jail, but that won't stop this from continuing to ruin the Trump & Republican brand. Does anyone honestly think that the Republican Party wouldn't throw Donnie Small Hands under a bus this very second if they could do so without it splashing back on them?

The defence of Trump will continue up until the damage inflicted by a Republican controlled impeaching their own Republican President works out to less than the damage keeping him in. It's not about principles, it's about protecting the brand.

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

He had a responsibility to report this incident to law enforcement when a foreign agent offered him access to stolen information. So whatever way this goes he will have to answer for that.

No he won't. He us married to that girl with the pretty smile and big boobies. 

Wait!! Maybe Gropenfuhrer wants to see the Kuchy out of her bedroom so Gropie can replace him. 

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5 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Ford pardoned Nixon for all potential future criminal convictions for activities, past, future, or present.

True, but the Supreme Court is likely to become involved and they aren't going to trash the justice system so Donnie can run rampant. Remember also, this does not absolve any member of government from state crime prosecution.

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7 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

He had a responsibility to report this incident to law enforcement when a foreign agent offered him access to stolen information. So whatever way this goes he will have to answer for that.

Horseshit. Unless something changes dramatically, this will continue and Trump and his nepotism, his minions and his billionaire buddies are relatively immune from "the law" as the rest of us understand it. We don't live in that country anymore. 

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1 minute ago, phillysailor said:

Horseshit. Unless something changes dramatically, this will continue and Trump and his nepotism, his minions and his billionaire buddies are relatively immune from "the law" as the rest of us understand it. We don't live in that country anymore. 

The law is the law. I have faith that this will be prosecuted and I have to believe that, the alternative is way too depressing.

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The law is the law. I have faith that this will be prosecuted and I have to believe that, the alternative is way too depressing.

I'm afraid you'll need to get ready to be depressed.

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The Trump team appears to be taking the best defense is offense defense...

“We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,” said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier. "

"These developments raise serious issues as to exactly who authorized and participated in any effort by Russian nationals to influence our election in any manner,” Corallo said.

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-election-but-didnt-follow-up

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The law is the law. I have faith that this will be prosecuted and I have to believe that, the alternative is way too depressing.

Better get yourself an appointment with a shrink. The story has changed multiple times today and, with each new story, the Gropenfuhrer faithful have re-written the pile of associated reasons  Gropenfuhrer is ok. 

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

The Trump team appears to be taking the best defense is offense defense...

“We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,” said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier. "

"These developments raise serious issues as to exactly who authorized and participated in any effort by Russian nationals to influence our election in any manner,” Corallo said.

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-election-but-didnt-follow-up

Many people are saying it.  

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Just now, Gouvernail said:

Better get yourself an appointment with a shrink. The story has changed multiple times today and, with each new story, the Gropenfuhrer faithful have re-written the pile of associated reasons  Gropenfuhrer is ok. 

What do you expect them to do? they are running scared now and know that they have to defuse this as much as possible now.

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And the faithful are inside the wagon circle along side shooting 

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4 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

I'm afraid you'll need to get ready to be depressed.

Not really, if they want to turn it into their great experiment let them. I'll be back not too long from now and will flush it for them.

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8 minutes ago, Dog said:

The Trump team appears to be taking the best defense is offense defense...

“We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,” said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier. "

"These developments raise serious issues as to exactly who authorized and participated in any effort by Russian nationals to influence our election in any manner,” Corallo said.

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-election-but-didnt-follow-up

You have to love whoever thought that up. They know enough to announce the Dems did this but not enough to reveal basic facts.Shit, the only missing is the claim that Obama thought it up. Look for it tomorrow morning LOL.

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Not sure I can stay awake until 3 AM.  I guess I'll just catch up on the Twitter-storm, in the morning.

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

Not sure I can stay awake until 3 AM.  I guess I'll just catch up on the Twitter-storm, in the morning.

It will be a helluva storm sir.

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20 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The law is the law. I have faith that this will be prosecuted and I have to believe that, the alternative is way too depressing.

I have more faith in Santa Claus. 

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10 minutes ago, Mickey Rat said:

I have more faith in Santa Claus. 

Yeah, we know.

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And another evening draws to a close while trying to lower my standards sufficientitbto give Gropenfuhrer a chance...

failed again 

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41 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

It will be a helluva storm sir.

Obsessive-Compulsive Trump Disorder Syndrom (OCTD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by uncontrollable, unwanted thoughts and repetitive, ritualized behaviors (all things Trump) you feel compelled to perform. 

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2 minutes ago, Mickey Rat said:

Obsessive-Compulsive Trump Disorder Syndrom (OCTD) is an anxiety disorder characterized by uncontrollable, unwanted thoughts and repetitive, ritualized behaviors you feel compelled to perform. 

Very nice, you just described Trump's mental illness perfectly.

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

The Trump team appears to be taking the best defense is offense defense...

“We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,” said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier. "

"These developments raise serious issues as to exactly who authorized and participated in any effort by Russian nationals to influence our election in any manner,” Corallo said.

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-election-but-didnt-follow-up

Wonder if they used the same investigators they sent to Hawaii after Obama's birth certificate? They were ever so reliable...

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7 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Wonder if they used the same investigators they sent to Hawaii after Obama's birth certificate? They were ever so reliable...

Those wily Democrats, set up an operation two weeks after the nomination to suck in Trumpito, Manafort and Kushner before they were even dreamt of as campaign staffers. Pure genius, then once hooked in kept it quiet for more than a year before springing it on an unsuspecting crowd., By golly, if they are that smart just give up now.

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1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

Very nice, you just described Trump's mental illness perfectly.

Two birds with one stone. ;)

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1 hour ago, Mickey Rat said:

Two birds with one stone. ;)

Autobiographical comments don't count

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The cartoonists and comedians will be so jaded by the end of Gropenfuhrer's reign they will never be able to motivate themselves to work for a laugh again. 

IMG_3023.JPG

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It seems that the Trump  inner circle do not really have the brain to dream up a good lie  and stick to it. First the meeting was about child adoptions, then it was about secrets, now it is a set up by the dastardly dems.

Blaming the dems is a classic Roger Stone strategy.

"When in the shit - throw the shit so everyone gets a bit."

Come on lads - send emils to your locally elected republicans warning them of the danger for their  party if they do not dump this cabal of eejjits at the centre of your governement. Tell them that as a long term republican voter (true or not) that you can never, ever bote for them again unless they grasp the nettle and support impeachment.

send it to the locallly elected coppers, the town councillors - the local school board., let them know that their goose will  be cooked unless they apply some upwards pressure on the party to get rid of these dangerous and incomptetent people.

Just moaning on a website with a load of  other liberals achieves nuffink

As a Brit watching the G20 with the key player ambling around sucking up to the bossnik and failing to engage with the serious issues  was so  depressing....

My poor old dad, who, having fought beside the Americans  had the highest regard for them  is pinwheeling in his grave.

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6 hours ago, dylan winter said:

As a Brit watching the G20 with the key player ambling around sucking up to the bossnik and failing to engage with the serious issues  was so  depressing....

What you saw is someone so distracted they couldn't function. Donald Trump knows what's coming and his strange behavior at the G20 confirms it.

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I wonder if the kids will eventually squeal for immunity and throw dad under the bus..after all..they control the empire now 

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

I wonder if the kids will eventually squeal for immunity and throw dad under the bus..after all..they control the empire now 

They are banking on a full pardon.

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At the risk of being accused of all sorts of shit, I have to ask. Trump's son met with a Russian lawyer who purported to have damaging information on Hillary (I would too), as far as I know that's not a crime. What's the crime here?

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Dog said:

At the risk of being accused of all sorts of shit, I have to ask. Trump's son met with a Russian lawyer who purported to have damaging information on Hillary (I would too), as far as I know that's not a crime. What's the crime here?

 

 

 

 

Not informing the FBI.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

At the risk of being accused of all sorts of shit, I have to ask. Trump's son met with a Russian lawyer who purported to have damaging information on Hillary (I would too), as far as I know that's not a crime. What's the crime here?

 

 

 

 

Lying about it.

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

Not informing the FBI.

It was a very unmemorable meeting.  Just like all of the meetings between the Trump campaign and the Rooskies.  Tremendously unmemorable.  So unmemorable that they were denied...until they became meetings about adoptions and that bit of Malarkey was spread far and wide by propagandists, until they became something else.  But yeah, if they were able to work out a deal (a wonderful deal, a huge, terrific deal) by which the campaign traded promises about sanctions in return for dirt on Hillary, that would definitely not be a crime.

 

unless a democRAT did it.  

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Also, this doesn't have to be criminal to be newsworthy. All along, Trump administration has declared the absence of contact or collusion with Russians. 

Being recognized as liars is damaging to political fortunes and making policy, negotiating treaties. 

Furthermore, as the evidence for maladministration mounts, the case for impeachment grows stronger. Inviting foreign governments and their representatives to have an impact or access to a national political campaign and then lying about such contact is evidence of maladministration. 

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How many more times will Fredo step on his dick before he's taken for an early morning fishing trip?

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8 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Lying about it.

Perjury?

 

3 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Also, this doesn't have to be criminal to be newsworthy. All along, Trump administration has declared the absence of contact or collusion with Russians. 

Being recognized as liars is damaging to political fortunes and making policy, negotiating treaties. 

Furthermore, as the evidence for maladministration mounts, the case for impeachment grows stronger. Inviting foreign governments and their representatives to have an impact or access to a national political campaign and then lying about such contact is evidence of maladministration. 

I agree that the optics are bad, but the title of this thread suggests a crime.

EDIT....Were not foreign representatives including Russians involved in the production of the famous dossier?

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Hillary was worse. She used email. Do you know what could have happened?  The Russians could have hacked her for Jimminy Christsakes!

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18 minutes ago, Dog said:

At the risk of being accused of all sorts of shit, I have to ask. Trump's son met with a Russian lawyer who purported to have damaging information on Hillary (I would too), as far as I know that's not a crime. What's the crime here?

 

There isn't one, as far as you're concerned. You have said several times, in different wording, that you think lying is perfectly OK. But for Trump Jr to meet with a Russian lawyer with Russian gov't connections rather contradicts all their statements that nobody in the campaign had any contact with any Russians. Not real news, I agree, it's just one of many contacts/connections that are coming to light. But the Trump campaign/administration has consistently and persistently said they never did.

Most of the rest of the world think that lying is bad. Lying to police, or to Congress, is specifically codified as a crime.

Think about this Trump Jr's meeting while listening to Session's recent self-righteous testimony that there were NO contacts with any Russians and he was pissed about being accused of covering up.

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light."

-DSK

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10 hours ago, badlatitude said:

Those wily Democrats, set up an operation two weeks after the nomination to suck in Trumpito, Manafort and Kushner before they were even dreamt of as campaign staffers. Pure genius, then once hooked in kept it quiet for more than a year before springing it on an unsuspecting crowd., By golly, if they are that smart just give up now.

Quote

James WoodsVerified account @RealJamesWoods

 
 

Only now with a #RealPresident do we see the scope of destruction engineered by #Obama and the #Democrat cabal. @realDonaldTrump #America

 

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Well at least we now can put to rest the claims of collusion between the Russians and the trump campaign.  

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23 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

There isn't one, as far as you're concerned. You have said several times, in different wording, that you think lying is perfectly OK. But for Trump Jr to meet with a Russian lawyer with Russian gov't connections rather contradicts all their statements that nobody in the campaign had any contact with any Russians. Not real news, I agree, it's just one of many contacts/connections that are coming to light. But the Trump campaign/administration has consistently and persistently said they never did.

Most of the rest of the world think that lying is bad. Lying to police, or to Congress, is specifically codified as a crime.

Think about this Trump Jr's meeting while listening to Session's recent self-righteous testimony that there were NO contacts with any Russians and he was pissed about being accused of covering up.

"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light."

-DSK

Now you're the liar. I never said lying is perfectly OK. I said it was protected speech.

And BTW...Can you provide a cite for your claim that the Trump campaign said "nobody in the campaign had any contact with any Russians".

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I think we should reserve judgement about Donald, Jr.'s meeting with the Russian dude until he settles on a story.

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If Jared attended this meeting and didn't disclose it to the FBI, is that really a crime?

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2 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If Jared attended this meeting and didn't disclose it to the FBI, is that really a crime?

Why yes, yes it is.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States.

But we need to move forward.

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Just now, Spatial Ed said:

If Jared attended this meeting and didn't disclose it to the FBI, is that really a crime?

Only if he was a temporarily a Democrat.   Its OK for Republicans.  Anything the Trump family does is the same as something Donald does.  It is automatically both legal and ethical, since rules don't apply to the President.  If you don't like it, talk to the ethics guy.  He's unemployed and has plenty of time to explain it.   

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Anyone who filled out a questionnaire to obtain a Security Clearance should have mentioned the meeting.  

I am pretty sure Donald, Jr. did not file that paperwork.  Did the other 2?  THAT is definitely a crime.

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Anyone who filled out a questionnaire to obtain a Security Clearance should have mentioned the meeting.  

I am pretty sure Donald, Jr. did not file that paperwork.  Did the other 2?  THAT is definitely a crime.

As far as I know Donald Jr. does not serve in the administration and does not have security clearance.

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7 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If Jared attended this meeting and didn't disclose it to the FBI, is that really a crime?

If anyone attends a meeting with a person representing a foreign power with the specific intention to gain information damaging to your electoral outcome....I would call it treason...dunno what your constitution says about it.

Lying about it? Well it's a lie by omission...prove that NON of the three didn't "just forget"

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4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Anyone who filled out a questionnaire to obtain a Security Clearance should have mentioned the meeting.  

I am pretty sure Donald, Jr. did not file that paperwork.  Did the other 2?  THAT is definitely a crime.

I hope someone finally gets screwed and it ain't us. Now to a question, why would Donnie Jr, Manafort, Kushner and some lawyer with ties with russia meet in Trump Towers to talk about adoption for babies. I mean, if Kellyanne and the other Trumpsters need an excuse for these folks being there, you'd think they could come up with a better one.

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4 minutes ago, Dog said:

As far as I know Donald Jr. does not serve in the administration and does not have security clearance.

Jared does.

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26 minutes ago, Dog said:

Perjury?

 

I agree that the optics are bad, but the title of this thread suggests a crime.

EDIT....Were not foreign representatives including Russians involved in the production of the famous dossier?

So what? Unless the dossier was offered directly to John Podesta during a conversation about relaxing sanctions against oligarchs once Hillary was elected it is neither relevant to this discussion or equivalent in any way. 

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5 minutes ago, Dog said:

As far as I know Donald Jr. does not serve in the administration and does not have security clearance.

200.gif#5-grid1

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5 minutes ago, bhyde said:

200.gif#5-grid1

Not yet anyway. Daddy's presidency is still too young and we're not even half way though the only term he'll have.

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53 minutes ago, Dog said:

At the risk of being accused of all sorts of shit, I have to ask. Trump's son met with a Russian lawyer who purported to have damaging information on Hillary (I would too), as far as I know that's not a crime. What's the crime here?

 

 

 

 

Is it a crime? Maybe -

 

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I think all this talk of clearances is moot as the meeting happened before the election? Under the guise of proving killery was working with the Russians and un American by having contact with Russians maybe even funding Russians with good deals if/ when the Dem were elected?!

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8 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

So what? Unless the dossier was offered directly to John Podesta during a conversation about relaxing sanctions against oligarchs once Hillary was elected it is neither relevant to this discussion or equivalent in any way. 

Agreed, so unless there it can be demonstrated that there was some quid pro quo in play, simply meeting with a Russian lawyer is a nothing burger.

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27 minutes ago, Dog said:

Now you're the liar. I never said lying is perfectly OK. I said it was protected speech.

Sorry, but when you continually defend liars on the grounds that lying is "protected speech" then it's obvious that lying is fine by you. QED

And BTW...Can you provide a cite for your claim that the Trump campaign said "nobody in the campaign had any contact with any Russians".

Umm... yeah. They've all said it pretty much every time the subject comes up.

 

22 minutes ago, Lark said:
23 minutes ago, bhyde said:
27 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

If Jared attended this meeting and didn't disclose it to the FBI, is that really a crime?

Why yes, yes it is.

Title 18, United States Code, Section 1001 makes it a crime to: 1) knowingly and willfully; 2) make any materially false, fictitious or fraudulent statement or representation; 3) in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative or judicial branch of the United States.

But we need to move forward.

Only if he was a temporarily a Democrat.   Its OK for Republicans.  Anything the Trump family does is the same as something Donald does.  It is automatically both legal and ethical, since rules don't apply to the President.  If you don't like it, talk to the ethics guy.  He's unemployed and has plenty of time to explain it.   

Kind of refreshing, ain't it?

But it's nothing new. It's been very well documented for months, the Trump campaign and some of the administration have had meetings with several different Russians, and they've continually and persistently lied about it. This is just another example of more of the same. Does not change anything other than adding to the pile of evidence.

Expecting the Republicans in Congress to enforce the actual laws is silly. They're busy WINNING !!

-DSK

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Since Manafort was with the campaign (the other two will probably say they weren't "with" the campaign), and Donald, Jr. admits the intent of the meeting with the Russians was to get damaging information, how is that NOT collusion?

“It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting,” Mr. Trump said.

Read that last part again: “the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.”

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.f503ea6698fe

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5 minutes ago, Sean said:

Is it a crime? Maybe -

 

Whoopsies. That's one spicy nothing burger. 

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Since Manafort was with the campaign (the other two will probably say they weren't "with" the campaign), and Donald, Jr. admits the intent of the meeting with the Russians was to get damaging information, how is that NOT collusion?

“It became clear to me that this was the true agenda all along and that the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting,” Mr. Trump said.

Read that last part again: “the claims of potentially helpful information were a pretext for the meeting.”

Trump Jr. confirmed that he went into the meeting expecting to receive information from the Russian lawyer that could hurt Clinton. That is a breathtaking admission.

[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/07/09/donald-trump-jr-s-stunningly-incriminating-statement-to-the-new-york-times/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.f503ea6698fe]Linky.[/url]

It's an interesting question. Does accepting useful information from a foreign national in a campaign constitute collusion. If so I doubt there has ever been a campaign without collusion.

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None shall pass, without any evidence.  Where is thine evidence?

 

Monty-python-black-knight.jpg

 

They admit meeting with the Russians?  

None shall pass, without telling us what the crime is.  

Post 60?  I've had worse.  it's just a flesh wound.  

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

It's an interesting question. Does accepting useful information from a foreign national in a campaign constitute collusion. If so I doubt there has ever been a campaign without collusion.

Yes, we all remember the big dust up when Obama was accused of accepting campaign information from the Russians. Like Bowling Green, how could we forget that.

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12 minutes ago, bhyde said:

Yes, we all remember the big dust up when Obama was accused of accepting campaign information from the Russians. Like Bowling Green, how could we forget that.

We shall never forget .......

 

EBEEFA6A-4183-4D55-9EF7-D162F980415C-2330-0000039E3F3259EC.jpeg

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And what do you do if you're Donald Trump and your son just stepped in a big doo-doo burger? Well, how about getting a morning security briefing from Fox & Friends and then go on a tweeter rampage. Look over here, look over here...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/07/10/trump-accuses-james-comey-of-breaking-the-law-based-on-a-misleading-fox-news-report/?utm_term=.5f864b45c736

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I wonder what little donny is doing today?

 

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58 minutes ago, Dog said:

It's an interesting question. Does accepting useful information from a foreign national in a campaign constitute collusion. If so I doubt there has ever been a campaign without collusion.

Accepting useful information from foreign nationals that was illegally obtained is both collusion and a crime.

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I had completely forgotten about this it is the perfect example of what you should do.

"A close adviser to Vice President Al Gore said he had received an anonymously mailed package today that involved material designed to prepare Gov. George W. Bush for his debates with Mr. Gore.

The adviser, former Representative Tom Downey of Long Island, N.Y., said he examined the materials briefly before giving them to his lawyer, who turned them over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation this afternoon. Mr. Downey, who has been helping Mr. Gore prepare for the Bush debates and was standing in for Mr. Bush in mock debates, also said he would recuse himself from any further debate preparation.

The Bush and Gore campaigns are to meet on Thursday to negotiate the debate schedule. If the candidates adhere to a plan set up by a bipartisan commission, the first debate will be on Oct. 3 in Boston.

Campaign officials said they did not know if the materials sent to Mr. Downey had been stolen from the Bush campaign or were meant to trap the Gore adviser in some sort of dirty trick. Mr. Downey's lawyer, Marc Miller, said the material -- a videotape and a sheaf of papers -- arrived in an envelope postmarked Austin, Tex., where the Bush campaign has its headquarters.

Continue reading the main story
 
 

The Gore campaign was eager to dissociate itself quickly from the incident. After Mr. Miller called the F.B.I., campaign officials alerted The Associated Press that the packet had arrived and provided a detailed time line of Mr. Downey's actions.

Mark Fabiani, a spokesman for Mr. Gore, said of Mr. Downey: ''He's being very careful and very prudent. He's handled this exactly right. No one can raise any questions about how it's being handled. What to make of it, I don't know.''

Ari Fleischer, a spokesman for the Bush campaign, said: ''We don't know what the Gore campaign claims to have in their possession, but we take it very seriously. We have asked our attorneys to review it to try to determine what they have.''

At an impromptu news conference today in Westminster, Calif., the chief spokeswoman for the Bush campaign, Karen P. Hughes, said that his campaign had not yet determined whether the materials Mr. Downey received were legitimate, but that she was not aware of any missing materials like the videotape or briefing papers.

Ms. Hughes said that the campaign had asked the F.B.I. for permission to review the materials.

''We're taking this seriously,'' Ms. Hughes said. ''We think the first step is to find out what the materials are, and if in fact they are legitimate.''

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/14/us/the-2000-campaign-the-debate-gore-aide-receives-then-lets-go-of-hot-potato.html

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Modernrate Buai said:

That all sounds like an America that is long gone BL !

I hope it just seems that way. 

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

Agreed, so unless there it can be demonstrated that there was some quid pro quo in play, simply meeting with a Russian lawyer is a nothing burger.

You are incorrect. 

Because the meeting was initiated so that Kushner & Donny Trump and Manafort could be given "dirt" on Clinton by an agent with ties to the Kremlin and they all subsequently lied about the meeting never happening, this is newsworthy and evidence both of maladministration and false reporting by Kushner to obtain security clearances. Furthermore, denials by everyone that Don "little hands" Trump ever knew about the meeting stretch the imagination, given this administration' propensity to lying.

Please announce your retraction at your earliest opportunity. Failure to do so will be taken as yet another example of your double standards. (Yawn!)

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6 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

You are incorrect. 

Because the meeting was initiated so that Kushner & Donny Trump and Manafort could be given "dirt" on Clinton by an agent with ties to the Kremlin and they all subsequently lied about the meeting never happening, this is newsworthy and evidence both of maladministration and false reporting by Kushner to obtain security clearances. Furthermore, denials by everyone that Don "little hands" Trump ever knew about the meeting stretch the imagination, given this administration' propensity to lying.

Please announce your retraction at your earliest opportunity. Failure to do so will be taken as yet another example of your double standards. (Yawn!)

But, the meeting was about adopting Russian children, nothing about collecting "dirt" on Clinton.

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16 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

You are incorrect. 

Because the meeting was initiated so that Kushner & Donny Trump and Manafort could be given "dirt" on Clinton by an agent with ties to the Kremlin and they all subsequently lied about the meeting never happening, this is newsworthy and evidence both of maladministration and false reporting by Kushner to obtain security clearances. Furthermore, denials by everyone that Don "little hands" Trump ever knew about the meeting stretch the imagination, given this administration' propensity to lying.

Please announce your retraction at your earliest opportunity. Failure to do so will be taken as yet another example of your double standards. (Yawn!)

I agree that it's newsworthy and that it looks bad but I suspect the legal implications being thrown about are more the product of wishful thinking than any real legal jeopardy. I could be wrong, we shall see.

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18 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

You are incorrect. 

Because the meeting was initiated so that Kushner & Donny Trump and Manafort could be given "dirt" on Clinton by an agent with ties to the Kremlin and they all subsequently lied about the meeting never happening, this is newsworthy and evidence both of maladministration and false reporting by Kushner to obtain security clearances. Furthermore, denials by everyone that Don "little hands" Trump ever knew about the meeting stretch the imagination, given this administration' propensity to lying.

Please announce your retraction at your earliest opportunity. Failure to do so will be taken as yet another example of your double standards. (Yawn!)

Greg Jarrett of Fox News was publicly saying that there is no law against collusion. Three prominent election law scholars disagree.

"We ran Jarrett’s argument by three election law professors, and they all said that while the word "collusion" might not appear in key statutes (they couldn’t say for sure that it was totally absent), working with the Russians could violate criminal laws.

Nathaniel Persily at Stanford University Law School said one relevant statute is the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002.

"A foreign national spending money to influence a federal election can be a crime," Persily said. "And if a U.S. citizen coordinates, conspires or assists in that spending, then it could be a crime."

Persily pointed to a 2011 U.S. District Court ruling based on the 2002 law. The judges said that the law bans foreign nationals "from making expenditures to expressly advocate the election or defeat of a political candidate."

Another election law specialist, John Coates at Harvard University Law School, said if Russians aimed to shape the outcome of the presidential election, that would meet the definition of an expenditure.

"The related funds could also be viewed as an illegal contribution to any candidate who coordinates (colludes) with the foreign speaker," Coates said.

To be sure, no one is saying that coordination took place. What’s in doubt is whether the word "collusion" is as pivotal as Jarrett makes it out to be.

Coates said discussions between a campaign and a foreigner could violate the law against fraud.

"Under that statute, it is a federal crime to conspire with anyone, including a foreign government, to ‘deprive another of the intangible right of honest services,’ " Coates said. "That would include fixing a fraudulent election, in my view, within the plain meaning of the statute."

Josh Douglas at the University of Kentucky Law School offered two other possible relevant statutes.

"Collusion in a federal election with a foreign entity could potentially fall under other crimes, such as against public corruption," Douglas said. "There's also a general anti-coercion federal election law."

In sum, legal experts mentioned four criminal laws that might have been broken. The key is not whether those statutes use the word collusion, but whether the activities of the Russians and Trump associates went beyond permissible acts.

Our ruling

Jarrett said that "you can collude all you want with a foreign government in an election," because there’s no law that says collusion is a crime.

Three prominent election law scholars said there are at least four laws that would prohibit the sort of activities under investigation, whether those laws mention collusion or not. Jarrett’s focus on a single word fails to reflect the reach of the criminal code.

We rate this claim False."

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2017/may/31/gregg-jarrett/fox-news-hosts-wrong-no-law-forbids-russia-trump-c/

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

I agree that it's newsworthy and that it looks bad but I suspect the legal implications being thrown about are more the product of wishful thinking than any real legal jeopardy. I could be wrong, we shall see.

Read the link I provided one post above yours.

About the author - Bob Bauer is a partner at the law firm of Perkins Coie and Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law. During 2010 and 2011, he was White House Counsel to President Obama.

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7 minutes ago, Sean said:

Read the link I provided one post above yours.

About the author - Bob Bauer is a partner at the law firm of Perkins Coie and Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law. During 2010 and 2011, he was White House Counsel to President Obama.

The last sentence sealed the deal for several posters. 

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All I know is that this badass mofo is going to get to the bottom of this!

ag_sessions_official_photo-small.jpg?ito

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13 minutes ago, Sean said:

Read the link I provided one post above yours.

About the author - Bob Bauer is a partner at the law firm of Perkins Coie and Professor of Practice and Distinguished Scholar in Residence at New York University School of Law. During 2010 and 2011, he was White House Counsel to President Obama.

Good article, perhaps Trump's exposure is greater than I thought, thanks.

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He had better pick one story and get it straight, because people are going to start putting him under oath.  That is when shit will get real for the Pride of New York.  Not to mention that picking one story and sticking with it will make Dog's life infinitely less frustrating.  Poor guy's posts sound as exasperated as Sean Spicer looks.  

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/341294-gop-senator-trump-jr-should-be-interviewed-by-senate-intel-panel

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6 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

He had better pick one story and get it straight, because people are going to start putting him under oath.  That is when shit will get real for the Pride of New York.  Not to mention that picking one story and sticking with it will make Dog's life infinitely less frustrating.  Poor guy's posts sound as exasperated as Sean Spicer looks.  

 

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/341294-gop-senator-trump-jr-should-be-interviewed-by-senate-intel-panel

I know we are talking about Senator Collins, and some would call her a RINO, but this is getting interesting when stuff like this comes from the same party. 

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18 minutes ago, bhyde said:

All I know is that this badass mofo is going to get to the bottom of this!

ag_sessions_official_photo-small.jpg?ito

Recused

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Recused

How convenient.

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Potential to be called as a witness forces him to recuse, unless he's arguing to dismiss the FBI Director  

This latest story is just chink in the administration's aura of incompetence, because now we wonder a bit more about whether collusion could have actually happened. We also begin to understand that simply deposing the principals won't be enough... there has to be a full investigation to corroborate their story, because they cannot tell the truth on the first or second try. 

This administration is in a shambles, already. Wow. That really didn't take long. And it will only get worse when the financial scandals hit. 

Consider, for example, Starret City, an urban HUD program in which Trump has a 4% stake. Trumps family wedding planner is now in charge of such programs, and recent drastic cuts to HUD happen to spare programs such as this one. The House is investigating. Double dealing here we come!

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16 hours ago, Dog said:

The Trump team appears to be taking the best defense is offense defense...

“We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting """"misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,”"""""" said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned that the person who sought the meeting is associated with Fusion GPS, a firm which according to public reports, was retained by Democratic operatives to develop opposition research on the President and which commissioned the phony Steele dossier. "

"These developments raise serious issues as to exactly who authorized and participated in any effort by Russian nationals to influence our election in any manner,” Corallo said.

https://www.circa.com/story/2017/07/08/donald-trump-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer-during-election-but-didnt-follow-up

They misrepresented who they were? The attorney's name is  Natalia Veselnitskaya for godsakes !! 

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47 minutes ago, Dog said:

Recused

Recused from the Russia collusion investigation, yes. Yet still participated in the firing of James Comey over the Russia collusion investigation.

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5 minutes ago, scottyMO said:

They misrepresented who they were? The attorney's name is  Natalia Veselnitskaya for godsakes !! 

Sounds Irish. 

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4 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Sounds Irish. 

To share a family secret, her mother was half Dutch

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14 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Sounds Irish. 

Hahaaaa. How many different stories did the WH come up with this morning, 3?

And why does spokesman Carallo, this morning, say stuff like, "We have learned from both our own investigation and public reports that the participants in the meeting misrepresented who they were and who they worked for,” said Mark Corallo, a spokesman for President Trump’s legal team. “Specifically, we have learned ...."    When did this learning take place, from your own investigation? And more importantly, this story broke this morning, this statement along with the other false stories were created this morning, now all the sudden it's on record. How could you be investigating something that was never put on record as even happening?! 

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Put DJ under oath and let him hang himself with his ever changing stories.  I think they have enough to jail Jarod and Flynn right now as they clearly lied to the FBI for his clearance.  And Manafort is so dirty, they will find him in a pool of his own mess with a dead prostitute.

Watch Trump try to pardon them.  The GOP might have to throw their honor and ethics to the wind and impeach.

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24 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

Put DJ under oath and let him hang himself with his ever changing stories.  I think they have enough to jail Jarod and Flynn right now as they clearly lied to the FBI for his clearance.  And Manafort is so dirty, they will find him in a pool of his own mess with a dead prostitute.

Watch Trump try to pardon them.  The GOP might have to throw their honor and ethics to the wind and impeach.

Never happen.

 Just like tricky Dick, he'll keep on lying until he's toast, then he'll claim that it was all a witch hunt, and that the press was out to get him, and that................

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds a little too familiar.................

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2 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

Never happen.

 Just like tricky Dick, he'll keep on lying until he's toast, then he'll claim that it was all a witch hunt, and that the press was out to get him, and that................

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Sounds a little too familiar.................

He's already saying it's a witch hunt.

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