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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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TMSAIL

Oh Shit another collusion story

24 posts in this topic

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. 

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. 

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

 

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7 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. 

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. 

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

 

She didn't bite, lots of people said trump was unfit to be president. Do you have a name of this top official? Doesn't appear you did! And Manafort hung himself.

 

Keep trying TM. Maybe you'll really find something though I seriously doubt it. But, if it makes you happy, go for it. Hey, don't forget HC lost!

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If Mrs. Clinton or any members of her campaign committed crimes, by all mean hold them accountable. Same goes for Trump. Sanders, Cruz et al.

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1 minute ago, Remodel said:

If Mrs. Clinton or any members of her campaign committed crimes, by all mean hold them accountable. Same goes for Trump. Sanders, Cruz et al.

There have been plenty of investigations into HC, years of them on various issues and what have the republicans got; ZIP, NADA, NOTHING!!!! The current investigation(s) have been active for what, 7 months and they have quite a load of potentially incriminating material TM. The fat lady hasn't sung yet!

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Firstly, no involvement by Hillary's campaign, therefore, NO COLLUSION. Thread title is therefore misleading. Please try to keep up, TMSAIL. I really do want to expect more of you. 

Private citizens are allowed to investigate malfeasance by political operatives of either party, including receiving information upon request from foreign governments. It is when damaging information is used in the same meeting as a discussion of economic sanctions, suggesting a quid pro quo agreement between foreign agents and a campaign director and two senior members of a presidential campaign that the charge of collusion can and should be made. Putin has identified the Magnitsky Sanctions as his most detested remnant of the H Clinton/Obama legacy, and this meeting can be understandably interpreted as an effort to weaken those sanctions in return for dirt on Hillary.

The Ukraine is an American ally, FYI. So, you'd have to equate colluding with an ally with collusion with a rival/long time enemy for your thread title to make sense.

TMSAIL: do you want the American experiment to succeed? A higher regard for ethics and the ability to put country before party would help. If you have any questions about how D Trump Jr should have reacted, please see the Democrats response by the Gore team. Sorry, you are just going to have to look to the Democrats for ethics for the time being, until the GOP rediscovers them.

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21 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Firstly, no involvement by Hillary's campaign, therefore, NO COLLUSION. Thread title is therefore misleading. Please try to keep up, TMSAIL. I really do want to expect more of you. 

Private citizens are allowed to investigate malfeasance by political operatives of either party, including receiving information upon request from foreign governments. It is when damaging information is used in the same meeting as a discussion of economic sanctions, suggesting a quid pro quo agreement between foreign agents and a campaign director and two senior members of a presidential campaign that the charge of collusion can and should be made. Putin has identified the Magnitsky Sanctions as his most detested remnant of the H Clinton/Obama legacy, and this meeting can be understandably interpreted as an effort to weaken those sanctions in return for dirt on Hillary.

The Ukraine is an American ally, FYI. So, you'd have to equate colluding with an ally with collusion with a rival/long time enemy for your thread title to make sense.

TMSAIL: do you want the American experiment to succeed? A higher regard for ethics and the ability to put country before party would help. If you have any questions about how D Trump Jr should have reacted, please see the Democrats response by the Gore team. Sorry, you are just going to have to look to the Democrats for ethics for the time being, until the GOP rediscovers them.

So Aides meeting with a lawyer possibly representing a forgein government  at Trump tower is collusion, but aides meeting at a foreign embassy is not.   Got it.  

"A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. "

 

Oh  wait it's Ok for the Democratic Party to meet with a Foreign Government doing opposition research, but not Trumps son.  Who last time I checked was and still is a private citizen. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Remodel said:

If Mrs. Clinton or any members of her campaign committed crimes, by all mean hold them accountable. Same goes for Trump. Sanders, Cruz et al.

Yep.  That was my point.   

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7 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Yep.  That was my point.   

But it's not because she didn't! So, you're projecting what someone would do. The projection was wrong.

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22 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

So Aides meeting with a lawyer possibly representing a forgein government  at Trump tower is collusion, but aides meeting at a foreign embassy is not.   Got it.  

"A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. "

 

Oh  wait it's Ok for the Democratic Party to meet with a Foreign Government doing opposition research, but not Trumps son.  Who last time I checked was and still is a private citizen. 

 

Paul Manafort: ex campaign director. Kushner: administration member without portfolio. D Trump Jr: quasi-ethical manager of family business while dad's busy playing head of state. The political operative who was working with the DNC? No member of the campaign. Ukraine? Still an "ally" which I suggest you look up, since it's changed meaning since Drumpf has taken over. 

You've threaded this needle almost really well. But isn't it exhausting having to defends these numbskulls and "it's not treason if it's profitable" types? What are you getting out of it? Certainly not better healthcare insurance, not a stronger economy, not a better reputation of America in the world. Are you getting paid to type against America's best interests, or are you so deluded as to think Trump is good for America? He has ZERO interest in Making America Great Again, unless he makes money in the deal. This is about wrecking the government, throwing millions off the public dole without regard for social stability and the ability of nepotism to secure his children's place with the uber takers of the world. You and I & our fellow citizens are nowhere in his priorities. 

I'd love to have a conversation about replacing welfare with the promise of a living wage and equality through education, infrastructure improvements and guaranteed affordable healthcare which doesn't bankrupt the nation or the individual. Lots of businessmen could make a profit in that nation, certainly more than is promised by the oligarchs currently in office. Any reasonable person would see that that is where America needs to go before our wage gape creates social unrest, an epidemic creates panic and social upheaval, or our finances are driven by dialysis. Staving off that day with partisan bickering, kicking the can down the road while the Trumps and DeVos' rob us blind is a foolish gift of time & money to those who deserve it the least and prove it with every changing explanation.

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2 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. 

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. 

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

 

NEWSFLASH: An action taken by a foreign government independent of a Campaign isn't "collusion".

It's only Collusion when the campaign works with the foreign power or takes benefit directly from it, e.g. given cash, private information, etc.

 

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Leave facts out of this. The commie  is trying to wind a tale.

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45 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

NEWSFLASH: An action taken by a foreign government independent of a Campaign isn't "collusion".

It's only Collusion when the campaign works with the foreign power or takes benefit directly from it, e.g. given cash, private information, etc.

 

So we can ignore the email to Trump Jr. where the Russians talk about their aiding Trump?

I see because the Hillary campaign was smart enough to use a DNC consultant to do opposition research with a foreign government it's all A-Ok.  

Love the hypocracy. 

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

So we can ignore the email to Trump Jr. where the Russians talk about their aiding Trump?

I see because the Hillary campaign was smart enough to use a DNC consultant to do opposition research with a foreign government it's all A-Ok.  

Love the hypocracy. 

Rumor has it, you're supposed to be educated but, your comprehension of BJ's post is apparently absent TM. Stick with racing someone else's sail boat and don't get fucked up with something you obviously don't understand.

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There is an undercurrent of hatred for a truly democratic, egalitarian America. A wily troll understands intelligent conversation enough to skew and distort. He wants to wreak as much havoc as he can within rational debates and replace it with personal invective and other inefficient use of time. 

He straddles this line between purely instigatory and friendly, but wounded, fellow citizen. Perhaps comrade is more appropriate, tho, since trolls such as this do not show patriotism as I recognize it. It's all "party before country." 

The Donald still enjoys the ardent support of the deplorables, who love him for beating Hillary and making America white Again.

His power comes from the billionaires and their henchmen, who hope the "nanny state" is dismantled in time before his impeachment so that the rich can further subjugate the common folk 

And let's not forget Trump's most loyal supporters, the Russian mafia and oligarchs. Where would he be without them? They hope and pray for the end of sanctions from their golden shower boy.

Ahem. TMSAIL would scold me and my cynicism. The Russian mobsters/oligarchs just hope to one day they will be able to find American families to adopt poor orphaned Russian children. 

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5 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Firstly, no involvement by Hillary's campaign, therefore, NO COLLUSION. Thread title is therefore misleading. Please try to keep up, TMSAIL. I really do want to expect more of you. 

You haven't been paying attention then. :roll eyes: 

On a less targeted note, this is all the supporters of team red have left. Deflection, distraction, and misrepresentation. That's how little they've got to work with. Even GWB had good points to riff off... but the best you can do with Trump is not talk about him.

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3 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

So we can ignore the email to Trump Jr. where the Russians talk about their aiding Trump?

I see because the Hillary campaign was smart enough to use a DNC consultant to do opposition research with a foreign government it's all A-Ok.  

Love the hypocracy. 

If Jr. hadn't showed up to the meeting, sure.

But he showed up to the meeting, intent on breaking Federal election laws.

 

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6 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/ukraine-sabotage-trump-backfire-233446

Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly questioning his fitness for office. They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested they were investigating the matter, only to back away after the election. And they helped Clinton’s allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisers, a Politico investigation found. 

A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. 

The Ukrainian efforts had an impact in the race, helping to force Manafort’s resignation and advancing the narrative that Trump’s campaign was deeply connected to Ukraine’s foe to the east, Russia. But they were far less concerted or centrally directed than Russia’s alleged hacking and dissemination of Democratic emails.

 

 

Wow, that sounds TERRIBLE! Maybe Clinton really really was bad after all.... was it her daughter Chelsea who was meeting with intelligence operative of a hostile foreign power? No, it wasn't Chelsea or any of the top Clinton or DNC bosses, and Ukraine is an ally.

And everybody in the world already knew Donald Trump was totally unfit for the office of President.

So, what happened is that the Ukraine helped expose Manafort's treasonous dealings.... yeah that's deplorable all right. You can totally blame the Democrats for that!

-DSK

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6 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

 

"A Ukrainian-American operative who was consulting for the Democratic National Committee met with top officials in the Ukrainian Embassy in Washington in an effort to expose ties between Trump, top campaign aide Paul Manafort and Russia, according to people with direct knowledge of the situation. "

 

 

 

Which turned out to be the case.  And the effort failed.  Apparently, all you can take from that tragedy is to make a snarky point about your political feelings being hurt.

You, personally, have won.  Mopping up?  Checking the battlefield for the the wounded, just to humiliate them one last time before you dispatch them?  

Maybe its time you move on, and enjoy your victory?  We are the dead.  We know it.

Edit: Humping the dead?  You're better than this.

 

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16 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

If Jr. hadn't showed up to the meeting, sure.

But he showed up to the meeting, intent on breaking Federal election laws.

 

Which election laws? 

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Which election laws? 

"But legal experts of both political parties say his explanations may not fly if he’s questioned under oath by Congress or Robert Mueller, the special counsel investigating potential Trump campaign collusion with Russia — and where perjury and making false statements carry legal consequences that don’t exist when engaging with reporters or on social media.

“I don't think that is an out,” said Robert Bauer, a former White House counsel under President Barack Obama and the Democrat’s 2008 campaign attorney. “If they accept the meeting on the understanding that they will be offered something of value — the opposition research — they are sending a clear signal that they would like to have it.”

Bauer added that accepting a meeting where there’s an understanding of purpose “raises a question under the federal campaign finance law” for which Trump Jr. could be held accountable."

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/10/donald-trump-jr-russia-meeting-legal-danger-240370

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Good catch TM! Once this gets out, Hillary will probably lose the election.

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He is soooo sharp!!

Like a plastic spork among fine cutlery!! 

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