• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
Saorsa

Other than a good laugh ...

135 posts in this topic

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Quite a lot if you take in how many commissions have been started, the number of lawyers the Trump admin. has hired, the loss of respect for our Democratic process, the not trusting our intelligence agencies and fake news with Trump being the most evident about spreading it.Oh, and a lot of people have told me that!

 

Are you really this naive TM?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Controlling interest in Uranium One ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

Quite a lot if you take in how many commissions have been started, the number of lawyers the Trump admin. has hired, the loss of respect for our Democratic process, the not trusting our intelligence agencies and fake news with Trump being the most evident about spreading it.Oh, and a lot of people have told me that!

 

Are you really this naive TM?

Well, President Trump did say he'd be creating jobs. We just didn't realize they would be for attorneys defending him and his brood. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cyber commission and peace in southern Syria?

Poland got https://www.defensetech.org/2017/07/12/us-approves-another-big-patriot-missile-sale-eastern-europe/ which can't make Russia happy but I'm betting we're gonna continue backing away from Ukraine and they'll never be allowed into NATO.

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2017/04/25/kievs-maidan-coup-us-begins-to-back-away-from-financial-support/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

So, you've moved from "there's no 'there' there" to "what have they (gained)".  

I guess that's progress. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Greatly reduced U.S. influence.

They've turned their biggest rival/enemy from the unquestioned world leader into an international laughingstock in one go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

So, you've moved from "there's no 'there' there" to "what have they (gained)".  

I guess that's progress. 

You still haven't shown any there.  The latest scandal seems to be a lobbyist briefly meeting with a political group based on a lie to get in the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

You still haven't shown any there.  The latest scandal seems to be a lobbyist briefly meeting with a political group based on a lie to get in the door.

And they met with the top tier of Trump's campaign puppets. If it was no big deal, why didn't they send some flunky to the meeting that wasn't anything more than a "nothing burger"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Greatly reduced U.S. influence.

They've turned their biggest rival/enemy into an international laughingstock

Nah, our press is doing that.  The shit has been under investigation for over a year and every fucking day a new tidbit is treated like the appearance of the virgin Mary at Lourdes.

More time has been spent saying the Trumplette met with a lobbyist than the meeting lasted.

Clinton spent that much time chatting with the AG in Phoenix while his wife was under investigation and the 'talk about grandchildren' was quickly accepted.

This is really getting pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the biggest political witch hunt in history!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Nah, our press is doing that.  The shit has been under investigation for over a year and every fucking day a new tidbit is treated like the appearance of the virgin Mary at Lourdes.

More time has been spent saying the Trumplette met with a lobbyist than the meeting lasted.

Clinton spent that much time chatting with the AG in Phoenix while his wife was under investigation and the 'talk about grandchildren' was quickly accepted.

This is really getting pathetic.

No, it hasn't been a year! I don't know what the degree you received, maybe basket weaving, but, your education amounted to squat. You are making a bigger fool out of yourself with every post TM.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Greatly reduced U.S. influence.

They've turned their biggest rival/enemy from the unquestioned world leader into an international laughingstock in one go.

this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Nah, our press is doing that.  The shit has been under investigation for over a year and every fucking day a new tidbit is treated like the appearance of the virgin Mary at Lourdes.

More time has been spent saying the Trumplette met with a lobbyist than the meeting lasted.

Clinton spent that much time chatting with the AG in Phoenix while his wife was under investigation and the 'talk about grandchildren' was quickly accepted.

This is really getting pathetic.

I just received the weekly update from my congresscritter Pete Olson and he neglected to include his statements that Bill Clinton told Loretta Lynch during that meeting that he had Vince Foster killed.  YRCMTSU.  and get a PANTS ON FIRE to boot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

They got rid of Hilliary.   Odd they could control Republicans but feared the Democrats.  I couldn't make this shit up, but it's obvious.

They castrated US credibility.

The world knows who to pay attention to, and it isn't the gold dude.   China, German, France, ....    Singapore...N Korea...USA of today.

The majority political party of all things USA is hobbled.  They are too busy denying reality to do anything.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

More than you ever dreamed possible. You must be very happy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

The opportunity to bail Trump out of his seventh and biggest bankruptcy ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

I still can't get over the love affair the GOP has suddenly discovered with Russia. 

Party of Reagan. Hah!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see you're broker now than before.

 

And your political capital to gather allies is in danger of going 'poof'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

So, you've moved from "there's no 'there' there" to "what have they (gained)".  

I guess that's progress. 

Each drip brings these guys closer to calling Trump a Democrat to justify them joining the rest of the world criticising the man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Greatly reduced U.S. influence.

They've turned their biggest rival/enemy from the unquestioned world leader into an international laughingstock in one go.

Lead from behind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Greatly reduced U.S. influence.

They've turned their biggest rival/enemy from the unquestioned world leader into an international laughingstock in one go.

I asked what they gained, not what you think we lost.  To be honest, most of the rest of the world really isn't all that in to it unless you go to the US pages of their newpapers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I asked what they gained, not what you think we lost.  To be honest, most of the rest of the world really isn't all that in to it unless you go to the US pages of their newpapers.

Screwing the American political system is one hell of a gain Sarosa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I asked what they gained, not what you think we lost.  To be honest, most of the rest of the world really isn't all that in to it unless you go to the US pages of their newpapers.

Your even dumber than we thought.

Find a middle school international studies student to explain it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I asked what they gained, not what you think we lost. 

It's a zero-sum game

That doesn't mean that what the US has lost, the Russians have necessarily picked up. However, somebody definitely has, and they're in pretty good field position

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 2:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Trump in office.  

Think about it.  Wouldn't make things easier for us if an incompetent idiot took Putin's place?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Trump in office.  

Think about it.  Wouldn't make things easier for us if an incompetent idiot took Putin's place?

Although he is probably way more aware of international politics... the comparison would be Yakov Smirnoff 

IMG_3047.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 5:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

They helped a woefully unqualified person to become POTUS, destabilized the US political system, and took the attention of the US government and administration off actually getting anything done. They have gotten more from this than they could have imagined in their wildest dreams largely because Trump has turned out to be a bigger doofus than anyone thought possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Look  - this is simple.

Republicans hate the US government.

Putin hates the US government.

They both hate Clinton too, so why not team up to destroy your common enemies? Win/Win :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trump has given what I thought was a fairly spent force - the KKK/American Nazi Party/Various white supremacist groups new life and a ROLE IN THE FUCKING WHITE HOUSE. Can you think of a better way to divide the country? 

The unending lies and screams of "fake news" have of course convinced rational people the President has rolled out lying as the new norm of government *, but it also has an effect not immediately apparent. What I get is many people will admit TrumpFox lies, but they assume this is to combat all the OTHER lies and that essentially NOTHING is true anymore, so just stick with what helps your team or what feels good. This is hugely damaging to an open society, we end up just like Russia or the old USSR where ALL news is assumed to be propaganda for someone. Trump has poured gasoline on the fire of political lies for a long time, starting with the whole birther movement and achieving a dubious triumph of actually getting someone to show up at Comet Ping Pong pizzeria with a gun to shoot the place up.

We also have the amusing or appalling spectacle of the flexibility of the Republican mind. There was no meeting with Russians - FAKE NEWS, well there was but they only talked about adoption policies and there were only a few people there, well there were more people there, etc. etc., etc. until we finally get down to 'Well so what if they did, who cares" :rolleyes:

Finally, anyone who supports the Republicans by saying "hearings are wasting time and money" or anything like that - you absolutely cannot make this shit up. Ranks up there with Bill Cosby trying to have town halls about sexual harassment and then some!

 

* anyone want to bet we see a "but Hillary had emails" type of response. All politicians have a tendency to be a bit flexible with the truth on occasion, but TrumpFox lies on a scale beyond anything I ever imagined in the USA and vastly more than email-Hillary ever dreamed of.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We also have the amusing or appalling spectacle of the flexibility of the Republican mind. There was no meeting with Russians - FAKE NEWS, well there was but they only talked about adoption policies and there were only a few people there, well there were more people there, etc. etc., etc. until we finally get down to 'Well so what if they did, who cares"

On this note, yesterday I saw one of the funniest yet compelling memes.

It said something like, "Why doesn't Trump just say the Mexico border wall is done?  His supporters believe anything, and it will save us billions of dollars."

I laughed at first, but then thought it actually is a good idea. I mean seriously. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 3:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Softened American's faith in their government.  Lowered expectations of leadership.  We are ripe for takeover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, benwynn said:
23 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

We also have the amusing or appalling spectacle of the flexibility of the Republican mind. There was no meeting with Russians - FAKE NEWS, well there was but they only talked about adoption policies and there were only a few people there, well there were more people there, etc. etc., etc. until we finally get down to 'Well so what if they did, who cares"

8 minutes ago, benwynn said:

 

On this note, yesterday I saw one of the funniest yet compelling memes.

It said something like, "Why doesn't Trump just say the Mexico border wall is done?  His supporters believe anything, and it will save us billions of dollars."

I laughed at first, but then thought it actually is a good idea. I mean seriously. 

+1

I think they should adopt this model for all governing policies.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

+1

I think they should adopt this model for all governing policies.

-DSK

Obamacare could be repealed and replaced tomorrow.  Easy peasy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, benwynn said:

On this note, yesterday I saw one of the funniest yet compelling memes.

It said something like, "Why doesn't Trump just say the Mexico border wall is done?  His supporters believe anything, and it will save us billions of dollars."

I laughed at first, but then thought it actually is a good idea. I mean seriously. 

And, the absence of reports of bags of drugs falling on people's heads would be seen by the Faithful as proof of the efficacy of the wall. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 4:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

The fracturing of the U.S./EU alliances, and a free hand in Ukraine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BrickTopHarry said:

The fracturing of the U.S./EU alliances, and a free hand in Ukraine. 

They had a free hand in the Ukraine under Obama.  No gain there. 

NATO is still there and the other members of the alliance are increasing their share of payments.  Looks like a win for Trump.  In other news, the EU is fracturing on it's own so individual alliances may be needed in the future. 

EU was kissing their ass already to keep the oil flowing.  No gain there.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They had a free hand in the Ukraine under Obama.  No gain there. 

NATO is still there and the other members of the alliance are increasing their share of payments.  Looks like a win for Trump.  In other news, the EU is fracturing on it's own so individual alliances may be needed in the future. 

EU was kissing their ass already to keep the oil flowing.  No gain there.

 

If you're not going to see what's in front of your own eyes, no point in answering your queries then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Saorsa said:

They had a free hand in the Ukraine under Obama.  No gain there. 

NATO is still there and the other members of the alliance are increasing their share of payments.  Looks like a win for Trump.  In other news, the EU is fracturing on it's own so individual alliances may be needed in the future. 

EU was kissing their ass already to keep the oil flowing.  No gain there.

 

Obama put restrictions on Russia, he didn't sit on his ass as you infer and I bet, Trump will remove them as soon as he can to make Putin, his mentor, happy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 2:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Are you blind? NATO in shambles, US isolated from our historic partners, loss of trust of the president, and the hits keep coming...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Raz'r said:

Are you blind? NATO in shambles, US isolated from our historic partners, loss of trust of the president, and the hits keep coming...

He may not be blind but he wears blinders, he got them from an old nag named Rosey.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

+1

I think they should adopt this model for all governing policies.

-DSK

 

1 hour ago, benwynn said:

On this note, yesterday I saw one of the funniest yet compelling memes.

It said something like, "Why doesn't Trump just say the Mexico border wall is done?  His supporters believe anything, and it will save us billions of dollars."

I laughed at first, but then thought it actually is a good idea. I mean seriously. 

They can show the picture of the fakes Mexico-Guatemala border wall. 

http://www.snopes.com/mexico-guatemala-border/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

Obama put restrictions on Russia, he didn't sit on his ass as you infer and I bet, Trump will remove them as soon as he can to make Putin, his mentor, happy.

The restrictions were window dressing limited to specific individuals and banks and are easy to circumvent.  Trump has had the opportunity now for some time to remove them and hasn't.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Saorsa said:

The restrictions were window dressing limited to specific individuals and banks and are easy to circumvent.  Trump has had the opportunity now for some time to remove them and hasn't.

 

Oh is that how you see it? They WERE put in place, Putin doesn't like them so Trump as a favor to him, will lift them. Anything Putin wants, Trump will be happy to do. OKAY! Got it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Are you blind? NATO in shambles, US isolated from our historic partners, loss of trust of the president, and the hits keep coming...

Can you show some actual evidence that NATO is in shambles and that we are isolated from our historic partners?

BTW, I'm still good with avoiding foreign entanglements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SV Airlie said:

Oh is that how you see it? They WERE put in place, Putin doesn't like them so Trump as a favor to him, will lift them. Anything Putin wants, Trump will be happy to do. OKAY! Got it.

When did that happen or are you pulling shit out of your ass again?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

Can you show some actual evidence that NATO is in shambles and that we are isolated from our historic partners?

BTW, I'm still good with avoiding foreign entanglements.

None are as blind as those who choose not to see. Or some other bullshit platitude. You're a wasted bag of water, Saorsa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They had a free hand in the Ukraine under Obama.  No gain there.

 

That is a fucking bald-faced lie

It may be that you are ignorantly parroting what Rush/Fox/etc etc says, and you personally believe it; but it is still a lie. Deal with facts, not feelings.

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Can you show some actual evidence that NATO is in shambles and that we are isolated from our historic partners?

BTW, I'm still good with avoiding foreign entanglements.

It took Trump what, a month to accept or affirm Article 5. A major requirement of all NATO members. its our friends who are friends with Trump? Macron has his number, give Trump a lot of Pomp and circumstance and like a five year old in a candy store, Trump loves it. Beneath the surface, I don't think he likes Trump at all and I seriously doubt his wife does either. Trump says afterwards that he will think about the Paris Accord but, that's like thinking he has an STD. That's all, nothing will come from it as his pea brain is made up.

 

PS, above all, NATO members JUST DON'T TRUST the ass swipe so in actuality, maybe you're right, they are unified in their dislike/distrust of one member of NATO the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

That is a fucking bald-faced lie

It may be that you are ignorantly parroting what Rush/Fox/etc etc says, and you personally believe it; but it is still a lie. Deal with facts, not feelings.

-DSK

They still hold the Crimea don't they?

Dat's a fack, Jack.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They still hold the Crimea don't they?

Dat's a fack, Jack.

 

Yep, but not because Obama did nothing.

Why do you lie first when you can use the truth to make your point?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Steam Flyer said:

Yep, but not because Obama did nothing.

Why do you lie first when you can use the truth to make your point?

-DSK

So you admit that the Russians gained under Obama and have gotten nothing under Trump.

That's progress.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So you admit that the Russians gained under Obama and have gotten nothing under Trump.

That's progress.

 

Anything the Republicans are doing?   If you want to bring up what Obama might have done after 2012 if the Republicans didn't obstruct everything,  I can bring up the fictional Hilliary President and claim she would have made Putin give it back and go crying for his momma.   If neither party is smart enough to solve the problem without a real full scale war, why do you insist on blaming Obama?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So you admit that the Russians gained under Obama and have gotten nothing under Trump.

That's progress

 

I disagree that the Russians have "gotten nothing under Trump." They've gotten the US to become de-facto allies. Perhaps Trump is just a useful idiot, or perhaps he is a bought-and-paid-for Putin stooge.

In either case, one reason why Obama did not take stronger measures against Russia's invasion of the Crimea is that he was hobbled by Russian Republican Congress that would have gladly let Russians cut your childrens' throats (or any Americans) in a public square rather than cooperate in anything that might let Obama look successful. And Obama made clear that he believed in following the principles and processes of American gov't, which I guess makes him weak in your eyes.

 

If Russia taking the Crimea is bad, why is Trump giving them back property inside the US good?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Saorsa's English writing is good but his logic is not.  The fault lies with the Republicans are good Democrats are bad belief system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BrickTopHarry said:

If you're not going to see what's in front of your own eyes, no point in answering your queries then.

Like I said in post #26

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They still hold the Crimea don't they?

Dat's a fack, Jack.

 

O/K genius - what should have been done?

Nuke them?

Invade Crimea to restore it to the Ukraine?

Among all your other shortcomings you apparently have never heard the term Realpolitik. Just like the invasions of Hungary, Czechoslovakia etc. sometimes there isn't a whole hell of a lot that anyone can do. With a power like Russia the only options are sanctions - which were done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So you admit that the Russians gained under Obama and have gotten nothing under Trump.

That's progress.

They have eliminated the USA as the leader of the free world and turned it into an international joke.

Do you really not comprehend this?

Really?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/14/2017 at 2:34 PM, Saorsa said:

what have the Russians actually gotten from all this effort?

 

Getting closer to breaking the USA up.

Then on to China.

Then I'd say India, but they've been down that route.....

Russia made a pretty good run at NATO too.

edit/ and getting closer to annexing more land-  there are efficiencies in large organizations, we're told over and over again....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

They have eliminated the USA as the leader of the free world and turned it into an international joke.

Do you really not comprehend this?

Really?

As we've established he reads all kinds of websites but nothing penetrates.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why I can't talk to Republicans in real life at all.
Well because of A, B,and C we obviously must do D.

Well seeing as A, B, and C are utter fictions....<WAH WAH you listen to fake librul mainstream lying fake news CNN is Clinton News Network>

Nevermind, time for lunch..............:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

They have eliminated the USA as the leader of the free world and turned it into an international joke.

Do you really not comprehend this?

Really?

Where is being the 'leader of the free world' something we should aspire to?

What are the qualifications for 'leader of the free world' and who has assumed that position?

Don't they want our money anymore?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You really are a lost cause.

I can see why you like Trump.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You really are a lost cause.

I can see why you like Trump.

I don't like trump.  He's a loudmouth NY asshole.

I like less the fuckwits who lack any sensible approach to solving our problems and rely on personal attacks and stupid fucking subject lines..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I don't like trump.  He's a loudmouth NY asshole.

I like less the fuckwits who lack any sensible approach to solving our problems and rely on personal attacks and stupid fucking subject lines..

And your sensible approaches AND solutions are what again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SV Airlie said:

And your sensible approaches AND solutions are what again?

They've been discussed, apparently you can't take part in any of them since all you have is feeble attempts to intimidate through insult.

I have repeatedly pointed out that we need to discuss delivering healthcare, not just how to get someone else to pay for it.

One suggestion was an expansion of the Public Health Service.  I would think that could be accomplished through the establishment of clinics staffed for a specified period by those whose schooling would be paid for through taxation.  Pay scales would be the same as military warrant officers.  That's a wage people live on and they, at the end of their term of service, would be free to go with no student debt.  I think a term of 8 to 10 years would be adequate.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They've been discussed, apparently you can't take part in any of them since all you have is feeble attempts to intimidate through insult.

I have repeatedly pointed out that we need to discuss delivering healthcare, not just how to get someone else to pay for it.

One suggestion was an expansion of the Public Health Service.  I would think that could be accomplished through the establishment of clinics staffed for a specified period by those whose schooling would be paid for through taxation.  Pay scales would be the same as military warrant officers.  That's a wage people live on and they, at the end of their term of service, would be free to go with no student debt.  I think a term of 8 to 10 years would be adequate.

 

I've seen nothing from you and certainly nothing sensible. I've seeing a lot of bitching about not liking to pay employees even minimum wage and that they are lazy working in dead end jobs. Maybe you believe that but, don't hear anything close to being sensible solutions muchness, approaches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Saorsa's English writing is good but his logic is not.  The fault lies with the Republicans are good Democrats are bad belief system.

Neither part is good.  Both parties are bad.  Believing that either is good is the bad belief system.

Do I have to quote George again?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They've been discussed, apparently you can't take part in any of them since all you have is feeble attempts to intimidate through insult.

I have repeatedly pointed out that we need to discuss delivering healthcare, not just how to get someone else to pay for it.

One suggestion was an expansion of the Public Health Service.  I would think that could be accomplished through the establishment of clinics staffed for a specified period by those whose schooling would be paid for through taxation.  Pay scales would be the same as military warrant officers.  That's a wage people live on and they, at the end of their term of service, would be free to go with no student debt.  I think a term of 8 to 10 years would be adequate.

 

I'd rather have single payer than govt run healthcare. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

I've seen nothing from you and certainly nothing sensible. I've seeing a lot of bitching about not liking to pay employees even minimum wage and that they are lazy working in dead end jobs. Maybe you believe that but, don't hear anything close to being sensible solutions muchness, approaches.

And basically, you seem to be unable to read or discuss the post you quoted and enjoy foaming at the mouth.

Now, piss off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I'd rather have single payer than govt run healthcare. 

I didn't know you were in the healthcare business.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

And basically, you seem to be unable to read or discuss the post you quoted and enjoy foaming at the mouth.

Now, piss off.

Okay: about hiring 6 employees for shifts during the week and saying if one had a second job, he could switch with some there employee. Well, at minimum wage maybe all 6 have second jobs which also have schedules at the other job that fluctuate. How are you going to deal with that or the employer deal with it? How can he fill the slots and based on the requirements in the OP it's obvious he couldn't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

I didn't know you were in the healthcare business.

 

Your proposal is for govt run institutions. So you like the U.K. Model, not the German. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

They've been discussed, apparently you can't take part in any of them since all you have is feeble attempts to intimidate through insult.

I have repeatedly pointed out that we need to discuss delivering healthcare, not just how to get someone else to pay for it.

One suggestion was an expansion of the Public Health Service.  I would think that could be accomplished through the establishment of clinics staffed for a specified period by those whose schooling would be paid for through taxation.  Pay scales would be the same as military warrant officers.  That's a wage people live on and they, at the end of their term of service, would be free to go with no student debt.  I think a term of 8 to 10 years would be adequate.

 

The usual reinventing the wheel excuse the right wingers are so fond of to preclude actually doing anything.

Virtually every developed nation other than yours has a functioning national health system - pick one and copy it or pick & choose bits from various ones and use them.

For a start.

But NOOOOOOOO - you have to go back to the fucking year zero to even start.

Now you piss off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

Okay: about hiring 6 employees for shifts during the week and saying if one had a second job, he could switch with some there employee. Well, at minimum wage maybe all 6 have second jobs which also have schedules at the other job that fluctuate. How are you going to deal with that or the employer deal with it? How can he fill the slots and based on the requirements in the OP it's obvious he couldn't.

Most places have sign up rosters.  There is no need for two different businesses to coordinate the individuals schedule.  At least, that's the way it worked when I had part time jobs while working full time elsewhere and going to school.  I'm not sure why there has to be only one way to work a roster on a job.  Most places come up with their own system and if you want the job, that's the  way the roster works.

Once you say you will be there, be there.  You can also sign up as an on-call floater at some places.  That's what I ended up doing in Annapolis when I realized that my 7.50/hour fun job was hurting people who actually needed the money.  I also forgo my share of the tips.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

The usual reinventing the wheel excuse the right wingers are so fond of to preclude actually doing anything.

Virtually every developed nation other than yours has a functioning national health system - pick one and copy it or pick & choose bits from various ones and use them.

For a start.

But NOOOOOOOO - you have to go back to the fucking year zero to even start.

Now you piss off.

The US Public Health Service has been existence since 1798.  I am suggesting that it take a larger role in delivering healthcare.

How many of your developed nations can beat that?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

The US Public Health Service has been existence since 1798.  I am suggesting that it take a larger role in delivering healthcare.

How many of your developed nations can beat that?

 

To help seamen! Pretty small group. At least someone covered them and it turns out it was the US government who footed the bill for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SV Airlie said:

To help seamen! Pretty small group. At least someone covered them and it turns out it was the US government who footed the bill for them.

I didn't think you would make it past the first line before gabbling.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saorsa said:

The US Public Health Service has been existence since 1798.  I am suggesting that it take a larger role in delivering healthcare.

How many of your developed nations can beat that?

 

You really don't want to start holding up any part of your health care delivery system as an example of how to do it.

The current state of affairs in the USA in this regard is nothing short of shameful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You really don't want to start holding up any part of your health care delivery system as an example of how to do it.

The current state of affairs in the USA in this regard is nothing short of shameful.

Seriously?  One dunce doesn't know that the PHS existed and another thinks I'm holding it up as an example.

What I am doing is proposing an extension of it to provide actual healthcare to people.

Oh, and if canada is so fucking great, whey do we have so many folks coming down I-75  to SW Florida and paying privately for insurance to get their healthcare when they want it, not when the government thinks it's time?

In some comparisons, the countries are pretty similar. The Commonwealth Fund, a private healthcare think tank based in the US, compares health systems of developed countries around the world in a report published each January. This year's report showed that 41 percent of Canadians reported being able to see their doctor on the same or next day when sick, compared to 48 percent of Americans. When it comes to getting care after hours, the two countries were also similar: 38 percent of Canadians said it was "very or somewhat easy" to get after hours care, compared to 39 percent of Americans.

Of course, these are averages and within a country, access to care can vary greatly. In Quebec, a third of patients in the emergency room wait five or more hours before seeing someone. In the US, some areas such as Boston see patients waiting as long as 45 days to get an appointment with their doctor.

 

Canada's wait times are much worse than the US when you start looking beyond regular doctor visits. According to the Commonwealth Fund report, 29 percent of Canadians wait two or more months for a specialist appointment, compared to just 6 percent of Americans, while 18 percent of Canucks waited four months or longer for elective surgery, compared to 7 percent in the US.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Saorsa said:

I don't like trump.  He's a loudmouth NY asshole.

I like less the fuckwits who lack any sensible approach to solving our problems and rely on personal attacks and stupid fucking subject lines..

Bullshit. You spend hundreds of posts defending Trump. Your sensible approaches rely on your emotions telling you people on welfare are treating you.

 

You are the fuckwhit you despise. So fuck off you poor bashing shitstain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For certain services at my boat shop the wait can be a year or more. 

Various new shops have opened from time to time offering same week work but have gone out of business leaving peeling paints and poorly repaired structure.

i don't think wait times have a lot to do with quality of service... unless your boat is sinking or the Doctor visit is about a rapidly worsening disorder. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Oh, and if canada is so fucking great, whey do we have so many folks coming down I-75  to SW Florida and paying privately for insurance to get their healthcare when they want it, not when the government thinks it's time?

If the US is so great why do people go to Mexico, Thailand and India?

God I hate fucking Florida. A magnet for assholes and morons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Bullshit. You spend hundreds of posts defending Trump. Your sensible approaches rely on your emotions telling you people on welfare are treating you.

 

You are the fuckwhit you despise. So fuck off you poor bashing shitstain.

Actually, I find Saorsa to be one of the people who despite regularly having opinions and positions opposite my own, actually discusses rather than fights with me. 

Hebisvone ofvtge guys who majes this forum  worth visiting..... especially because  he is wrong about lots of stuff but stands his ground well 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Where is being the 'leader of the free world' something we should aspire to?

What are the qualifications for 'leader of the free world' and who has assumed that position?

Don't they want our money anymore?

And if the US dollar is not the world reserve currency?  You think you hate the elites now, wait until they're scrambling to make a buck in a secondary money market- ever wonder why Brexit wasn't a popular move in London?  Jesus man, wake the fuck up.   American companies need all the help the Export Import Bank can give them now.  Imagine (if you can) what happens when we aren't the Big Kahuna.  Sure, less taxes, but without the Big Stick, what could go wrong?  Less sales, less investment, less clout.  Is that what you really want? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Actually, I find Saorsa to be one of the people who despite regularly having opinions and positions opposite my own, actually discusses rather than fights with me. 

Funny, I find him to cherry pick anecdotes to support shit opinions, jerk himself off over his life story, and when confronted with facts he dislikes, he runs. Other than a convenient idiotic punching bag, he's worthless. Which is the shape of many conservatives here these days.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Amati said:

And if the US dollar is not the world reserve currency?  You think you hate the elites now, wait until they're scrambling to make a buck in a secondary money market- ever wonder why Brexit wasn't a popular move in London?  Jesus man, wake the fuck up.   American companies need all the help the Export Import Bank can give them now.  Imagine (if you can) what happens when we aren't the Big Kahuna.  Sure, less taxes, but without the Big Stick, what could go wrong?  Less sales, less investment, less clout.  Is that what you really want? 

Yes. He got his, now it's fuck everyone else. He road the US spending and greatness to personal wealth and fuck everyone else. He's an asshole who wants no minimum wage so there are people slaving away and he can feel better about himself. His positions ooze contempt for economic development (he thinks we need cashiers - but he's so fucking stupid he doesn't get the millions of them aren't all going to better themselves).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Seriously?  One dunce doesn't know that the PHS existed and another thinks I'm holding it up as an example.

What I am doing is proposing an extension of it to provide actual healthcare to people.

Oh, and if canada is so fucking great, whey do we have so many folks coming down I-75  to SW Florida and paying privately for insurance to get their healthcare when they want it, not when the government thinks it's time?

Not sure what that quote is all about but I know a bunch of Canadians, and either they are all very good liars, or else that quote is rather misleading.

If you don't know any Canadians, I suggest an experiment. Take your phone number, substitute your area code for a Canadian one. Call them, explain politely that you're interested in this topic, and see what they say. I bet 1- at a bare minimum they'll be polite and 2- they will be glad to explain some of the basics of how the Canadian healthc care system works, from their point of view.

I thought this thread was going to be about Russia? Is Russia thinking of copying Canada's health care system too?

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Why would you want public ownership of delivery?

Public ownership has a bad rep because of communism. Public water and sewer systems are a wonderful  thing. 

It sure is nice that we can drop a letter in a box, put the red  flag up, and know that letter will be delivered to my mother in law's farm in a couple days for just $.42

When smoke rises from a home In my neighborhood, professionals with firefighting equipment show up within minutes to make it stop. 

I can drive out my driveway and go anywhere in the USA

many of our publically owned systems work mighty well 

 

i suspect the medical system as a public system could be superb 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Public ownership has a bad rep because of communism. Public water and sewer systems are a wonderful  thing. 

It sure is nice that we can drop a letter in a box, put the red  flag up, and know that letter will be delivered to my mother in law's farm in a couple days for just $.42

When smoke rises from a home In my neighborhood, professionals with firefighting equipment show up within minutes to make it stop. 

I can drive out my driveway and go anywhere in the USA

many of our publically owned systems work mighty well 

 

i suspect the medical system as a public system could be superb 

Gots to love America, giving her half a chance.  I mean, the Grange happened here!  How can the Grange be anything but a model  of cooperation?

Although I'm sure some will heap abuse on a practical non sectarian model....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, benwynn said:

On this note, yesterday I saw one of the funniest yet compelling memes.

It said something like, "Why doesn't Trump just say the Mexico border wall is done?  His supporters believe anything, and it will save us billions of dollars."

I laughed at first, but then thought it actually is a good idea. I mean seriously. 

If you think about it, Trump says the wall is done, the fake media (CNN, NYT, etc) check and report that the wall is not done - and Trump faithful really think the wall must be done since the media are saying it is not there. It is an interesting world we live in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Not sure what that quote is all about but I know a bunch of Canadians, and either they are all very good liars, or else that quote is rather misleading.

If you don't know any Canadians, I suggest an experiment. Take your phone number, substitute your area code for a Canadian one. Call them, explain politely that you're interested in this topic, and see what they say. I bet 1- at a bare minimum they'll be polite and 2- they will be glad to explain some of the basics of how the Canadian healthc care system works, from their point of view.

I thought this thread was going to be about Russia? Is Russia thinking of copying Canada's health care system too?

-DSK

There are better than 2000 Canadian snowbirds who come down I75 every year.  I don't need to make random phone calls.  As I pointed out, they get insurance to get their work done here when they want it, not when the government thinks it's OK.  I think the Canadian Govt will reimburse some emergency expenses but they usually only go that route when it's close to time to go home.  If they have a recent diagnosis from the US they get to queue jump in Canada.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Saorsa said:

There are better than 2000 Canadian snowbirds who come down I75 every year.  I don't need to make random phone calls.  As I pointed out, they get insurance to get their work done here when they want it, not when the government thinks it's OK.  I think the Canadian Govt will reimburse some emergency expenses but they usually only go that route when it's close to time to go home.  If they have a recent diagnosis from the US they get to queue jump in Canada.

Which just proves that the US is happy & eager to give people with wealth priority access to healthcare. It does not make that healthcare better, does not make the US system better, and most certainly doesn't make the point you're implying it does. After all, US folks will head to Mexico to get medical procedures done too... does that make Mexico better than the US (which you imply is better than Canada)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Which just proves that the US is happy & eager to give people with wealth priority access to healthcare. It does not make that healthcare better, does not make the US system better, and most certainly doesn't make the point you're implying it does. After all, US folks will head to Mexico to get medical procedures done too... does that make Mexico better than the US (which you imply is better than Canada)?

Bent is Australia's greatest expert on US, Canadian and Mexican health care. Thanks Siri.

NOW WHERE IS MY FUCKING PIZZA????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Bent is Australia's greatest expert on US, Canadian and Mexican health care. Thanks Siri.

NOW WHERE IS MY FUCKING PIZZA????

PizzaPizza! Call now!

although PizzaHut is better!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now