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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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badlatitude

The GOP's Moral Rot is the Problem, Not Donald Trump Jr.

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33 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I don't think Doggie can answer the question....

 

Dog - do you need a hint on the correct answer? You won't get it from Hannity....

Dog can't seem to figure out the answer on his own. Anyone in class want to help?
 

To Restate the Question:

Do you believe that Donald Trump Jr. had a meeting with a Russian lawyer about information that might be harmful to Hillary Clinton, or not? 

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33 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

To Restate the Question:

Do you believe that Donald Trump Jr. had a meeting with a Russian lawyer about information that might be harmful to Hillary Clinton, or not? 

 

If someone offers to sell you and bag of pot and you show up to buy it but they don't have any, you cannot be guilty of 'possession'.  You may be guilty of all kinds of other things but you're not guilty of possession - there is no pot.  That's the problem with that particular phrasing, knowing what we know now.  He appears to have gotten catfished.

So he's guilty of solicitation, but not actually doing the deed so to speak.

There's so many other things to get angry about, I just can't get it up for Don jr.  To me, this is a dumb story.  I know it's got traction.  I know people are clicking away.  It's Benghazi for the left.  Booyah!   And I know we have to have symmetry in our politics but blegh.   I'm just not feeling it.

 

Edit - one thing I would add.  Any republican that supports Trump and then starts whining bout 'evil Russians' is just being a hypocrite.  That you can't have nor do any of his supporters get to complain about 'dirty politics'. They were rolling in it.

 

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1 hour ago, Dog said:

Not a tap dance at all. "the Russians" implies the Russian government. However it is true that she purported to have information procured by the Russian government, so there is that.

I think "the Russian government" implies the Russian government. 

In contrast, "the Russians" implies more than one person of Russian heritage. You know, plural.

There was nothing in the question about "the government".  You want it to imply that, but you are imagining things.

We apologize for your confusion. 

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12 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

If someone offers to sell you and bag of pot and you show up to buy it but they don't have any, you cannot be guilty of 'possession'.  You may be guilty of all kinds of other things but you're not guilty of possession - there is no pot.  That's the problem with that particular phrasing, knowing what we know now.  He appears to have gotten catfished.

Why the assumption nothing came of contacts with the Russians? It's damn weird - or just Trump incompetent? - to have your top 3 people appear in a meeting and have nothing come of it.

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Why the assumption nothing came of contacts with the Russians?

Cause I can't see any of the eight of them keeping their mouth's shut this long :)  You could be right but my god they've not shown a lot of restraint thus far.

 

BTW:  This guy stole the avatar I stole!  I feel both honored and somehow violated!  I wonder if he reads PA?  

http://www.zerohedge.com/blogs/vince-lanci

 

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30 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

 

If someone offers to sell you and bag of pot and you show up to buy it but they don't have any, you cannot be guilty of 'possession'.  You may be guilty of all kinds of other things but you're not guilty of possession - there is no pot.  That's the problem with that particular phrasing, knowing what we know now.  He appears to have gotten catfished.

So he's guilty of solicitation, but not actually doing the deed so to speak.

There's so many other things to get angry about, I just can't get it up for Don jr.  To me, this is a dumb story.  I know it's got traction.  I know people are clicking away.  It's Benghazi for the left.  Booyah!   And I know we have to have symmetry in our politics but blegh.   I'm just not feeling it.

 

Edit - one thing I would add.  Any republican that supports Trump and then starts whining bout 'evil Russians' is just being a hypocrite.  That you can't have nor do any of his supporters get to complain about 'dirty politics'. They were rolling in it.

 

that's not the answer to the question. It's a simple question. 45% of Trump supporters can't actually answer it factually, even though Trump Jr said he did it!

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18 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

Cause I can't see any of the eight of them keeping their mouth's shut this long :)  You could be right but my god they've not shown a lot of restraint thus far.

 

BTW:  This guy stole the avatar I stole!  I feel both honored and somehow violated!  I wonder if he reads PA?  

http://www.zerohedge.com/blogs/vince-lanci

 

You do realize that the discussion about adoption is really a discussion about relaxing sanctions on Putin's buddies... You're smart enough to figure that out, right?

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26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You do realize that the discussion about adoption is really a discussion about relaxing sanctions on Putin's buddies... You're smart enough to figure that out, right?

I've read the cliff notes from the NY times https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/world/americas/kremlin-adoptions-sanctions-russia.html

I get it but it's a pretty tortured story.  The question I was responding too was 'how do you know they didn't get anything?" and my answer is I don't but if they had gotten something, it seems like that would have somehow leaked out.  Now, it's possible that, for example, the Russians agreed to send information to Asange if Trump agreed to rethink the whole sanctions thing and they just told Jr. to pass that message along?  That may be why Kushner left - plausible denial?  But there were so many people in that room.  Putin is KGB.  If this was all cloak and dagger, Putin-Sanctioned, why drag 8 people including this guy into the room?

 

rob-goldstone-a-man-with-cringeworthy-fa

 

Occam's razor on this one - Trump's people got catfished by some Russians running their own angle and tried to hide it - probably from papa himself - and screwed up the government forms because they're really don't have good foresight.

 

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Was listening on NPR about people who still support the guy.  Some town in Ohio, where 62% voted for him, and they are all still in his camp and pleased with his efforts to date.  The country I grew up in has gone totally around the bend, it seems, in many places.  A country where manners, respect for others, and good taste are off the table forever now.

A conservative relatively apolitical employee was complaining about all the Russia stuff in the news this week.   She wanted to know if anybody believed the Russia meeting really happened.    :wacko:    She is good at her job, just not picking Presidential candidates.    Insurance is rationing her husband treatment (defense industry), she sees no irony in that either.    

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1 hour ago, cmilliken said:

 

If someone offers to sell you and bag of pot and you show up to buy it but they don't have any, you cannot be guilty of 'possession'.  You may be guilty of all kinds of other things but you're not guilty of possession - there is no pot.  That's the problem with that particular phrasing, knowing what we know now.  He appears to have gotten catfished.

So he's guilty of solicitation, but not actually doing the deed so to speak.

There's so many other things to get angry about, I just can't get it up for Don jr.  To me, this is a dumb story.  I know it's got traction.  I know people are clicking away.  It's Benghazi for the left.  Booyah!   And I know we have to have symmetry in our politics but blegh.   I'm just not feeling it.

 

Edit - one thing I would add.  Any republican that supports Trump and then starts whining bout 'evil Russians' is just being a hypocrite.  That you can't have nor do any of his supporters get to complain about 'dirty politics'. They were rolling in it.

 

There's some seriously advanced doggy stylin' going on here.

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2 hours ago, cmilliken said:

If someone offers to sell you and bag of pot and you show up to buy it but they don't have any, you cannot be guilty of 'possession'.  You may be guilty of all kinds of other things but you're not guilty of possession - there is no pot.  That's the problem with that particular phrasing, knowing what we know now.

No, when asked afterwards, he SAYS he wasn't able to buy it.

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4 hours ago, austin1972 said:

I let that one slide. The whole cycle seemed to have him out of his element.

Besides, Trump has now decided to side with Russia and let the whole country go to shit and give it to Assad. Next is Turkey.

The ME meltdown will accelerate. It helps Russia since oil is a big part of its economy and federal budget. They want ME chaos.

So, the Aleppo thing is small.

I have no idea why people are giving him shit for bailing the fuck out of Hillary's stupid war in Syria. One of the only smart things he's done.

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16 minutes ago, Battlecheese said:

I have no idea why people are giving him shit for bailing the fuck out of Hillary's stupid war in Syria. One of the only smart things he's done.

Right action for the wrong reasons, but still better on this one issue then Hilliary would have been.   I agree with Cmilliken that America needs to limit ourselves to essential and concrete military missions with smart objectives and an exit strategy.   There's nothing but cat turds buried there, but it hurts my pride to back away just because Putin says it's his sandbox.   

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1 hour ago, cmilliken said:

I've read the cliff notes from the NY times https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/world/americas/kremlin-adoptions-sanctions-russia.html

I get it but it's a pretty tortured story.  The question I was responding too was 'how do you know they didn't get anything?" and my answer is I don't but if they had gotten something, it seems like that would have somehow leaked out.  Now, it's possible that, for example, the Russians agreed to send information to Asange if Trump agreed to rethink the whole sanctions thing and they just told Jr. to pass that message along?  That may be why Kushner left - plausible denial?  But there were so many people in that room.  Putin is KGB.  If this was all cloak and dagger, Putin-Sanctioned, why drag 8 people including this guy into the room?

 

rob-goldstone-a-man-with-cringeworthy-fa

 

Occam's razor on this one - Trump's people got catfished by some Russians running their own angle and tried to hide it - probably from papa himself - and screwed up the government forms because they're really don't have good foresight.

 

Did Trump Jr meet with a Russian Lawyer hoping to get some dirt?

 

yes/no?

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22 minutes ago, Lark said:

Right action for the wrong reasons, but still better on this one issue then Hilliary would have been.   I agree with Cmilliken that America needs to limit ourselves to essential and concrete military missions with smart objectives and an exit strategy.   There's nothing but cat turds buried there, but it hurts my pride to back away just because Putin says it's his sandbox.   

Just because it hurts your pride doesn't mean it's wrong.

i can't see a real lot of face-saving ways of getting out myself.

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7 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Did Trump Jr meet with a Russian Lawyer hoping to get some dirt?

 

yes/no?

Absolutely :)

I have no doubt in my mind that is what he was trying to do.

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1 minute ago, cmilliken said:

Absolutely :)

I have no doubt in my mind that is what he was trying to do.

Nor his mind.  I Love It!

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11 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

I think "the Russian government" implies the Russian government. 

In contrast, "the Russians" implies more than one person of Russian heritage. You know, plural.

There was nothing in the question about "the government".  You want it to imply that, but you are imagining things.

We apologize for your confusion. 

If a person from another country has a meeting with you have they met with "the Americans"?

What was the wording in the question?

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12 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Dog - quick question for you:

 

Do you believe that Donald Trump Jr. had a meeting with a Russian lawyer about information that might be harmful to Hillary Clinton, or not? 

 

Yes, he met with a Russian lawyer hoping to get dirt on Hillary. Is a meeting with a Russian citizen a meeting with the Russians? No tap dancing Raz.

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19 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

when presented with Trump or Hillary you chose neither, that's support for Trump in our system.

How do you arrive at that conclusion?  Seriously, I am fascinated with understanding your logic train on this one.

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19 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:
19 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

GFY you specious cunt - and find a single post of mine in which you can claim I supported Trump.  You won't - so simply STFU. 

Hillary was worse.

We will never know, will we?  Had she run a better campaign and not been such a lying, self-absorbed and entitled cunt - we might be having a different discussion right now.  Hillary honestly has only herself to blame for trump being in power.  How she has not committed suicide for cocking up what should have been a gimme for her coronation is beyond me.  Pretty much anyone who could fog a mirror should have been able to beat a clown like trump.

But the fact that they were our two best candidates for preznit out of 300 million people is a bigger indictment of our political system and the American electorate.  THAT, imho, is what we should be focusing on, not about what trump is doing right now.  The fact that a shitshow like trumples can even be considered for the highest office in the land should give us some serious pause.

And in a twisted sort of way, yes, hillary would have been worse.  She would have likely been a somewhat boringly competent president.  But that's precisely why she would have been worse.  It would have been status quo and the American electorate would have been none the wiser or gave a shit about our continuing societal decay.  We needed a wake up call and that alarm going off right now is called Donald Trump.  Hopefully we won't just hit snooze.....

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10 hours ago, Battlecheese said:

Just because it hurts your pride doesn't mean it's wrong.

i can't see a real lot of face-saving ways of getting out myself.

I agree with this.  We should never have been involved in Syria in the first place.  We had ZERO national security interests there.  Nada.  Not our fight and in fact it would have served our national interests MORE to let Putin have this hot potato all to himself a while ago.  From my POV, he's more than welcome to deal with this shitshow.  

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

Were they your two best candidates or did your stupid primary process just kill off the better ones?

Yes

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2 hours ago, Dog said:

If a person from another country has a meeting with you have they met with "the Americans"?

What was the wording in the question?

You're just being pedantic.

Here is a screen capture of page 34 from the poll (linked below) -

 

Screen Shot 2017-07-21 at 8.26.43 AM.png

Linky.

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18 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Were they your two best candidates or did your stupid primary process just kill off the better ones?

Hillary's nimination was a well planned coronation orchestrated by the Democratic National Committee. Trump was the result of pure chaos. As to the Dems, apart from Sanders, better candidates never emerged. Republicans had way better candidates than Trump; John Kasich comes to mind. There aren't enough traditional republicans to beat democrat presidential candidates. The party has courted and absorbed the fringe, low information types and of course the "deplorables" in order to win. It's like herding cats. 

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11 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

You're just being pedantic.

Here is a screen capture of page 34 from the poll (linked below) -

 

Screen Shot 2017-07-21 at 8.26.43 AM.png

Linky.

Thank you , so the question was not posed in the terms Mismoyled Jiblet used.

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6 minutes ago, Dog said:

Thank you , so the question was not posed in the terms Mismoyled Jiblet used.

No.  Instead of focusing on a word someone used in a paraphrasing, why not focus on the point behind his post.

Care to comment on the gist of the responses reflected in that poll?  That the majority of Republicans who responded do not believe, or are not sure, Junior met with the Russian lawyer?  Do keep in mind this poll was conducted AFTER Junior admitted the meeting happened.

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13 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

No.  Instead of focusing on a word someone used in a paraphrasing, why not focus on the point behind his post.

Care to comment on the gist of the responses reflected in that poll?  That the majority of Republicans who responded do not believe, or are not sure, Junior met with the Russian lawyer?  Do keep in mind this poll was conducted AFTER Junior admitted the meeting happened.

It's inexplicable to me how anyone familiar with the subject could believe he did not have that meeting. PPP however is hardly a disinterested  party so I wouldn't rule out some deception.

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9 minutes ago, Dog said:

It's inexplicable to me how anyone familiar with the subject could believe he did not have that meeting. PPP however is hardly a disinterested  party so I wouldn't rule out some deception.

Was the wording in the question deceptive?

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2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Was the wording in the question deceptive?

No, but the sampling could be. There's lots of ways to skin a cat, these guys are masters.

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1 minute ago, Dog said:

No, but the sampling could be. There's lots of ways to skin a cat, these guys are masters.

So, you are just looking for a reason to dismiss the results.  Got it.

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Just now, Bus Driver said:

So, you are just looking for a reason to dismiss the results.  Got it.

I take all shit like this with a grain of salt.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

We will never know, will we?  Had she run a better campaign and not been such a lying, self-absorbed and entitled cunt - we might be having a different discussion right now.  Hillary honestly has only herself to blame for trump being in power.  How she has not committed suicide for cocking up what should have been a gimme for her coronation is beyond me.  Pretty much anyone who could fog a mirror should have been able to beat a clown like trump.

But the fact that they were our two best candidates for preznit out of 300 million people is a bigger indictment of our political system and the American electorate.  THAT, imho, is what we should be focusing on, not about what trump is doing right now.  The fact that a shitshow like trumples can even be considered for the highest office in the land should give us some serious pause.

And in a twisted sort of way, yes, hillary would have been worse.  She would have likely been a somewhat boringly competent president.  But that's precisely why she would have been worse.  It would have been status quo and the American electorate would have been none the wiser or gave a shit about our continuing societal decay.  We needed a wake up call and that alarm going off right now is called Donald Trump.  Hopefully we won't just hit snooze.....

Trump also beat the Bush (vote for me, my family keeps getting us in wars and tanking the economy.   I'm a Republican dynasty), Cuomo, Christie, Kasich, Cruz, Carson and a shit load of other Republicans,   Boring competence is worse then Trump to your deconstructionist view?  Trump does care about our societal decay.    He's very aware of demographic shifts and seeks to take money from the rich,    He knows paying poor contractors is voluntary.    Trump is the alarm as a rising water on a ship is alarming.   He may not be the iceberg, but clearly he's part of the problem.   Removing keel plates to drain the icky bilge is not the usual solution.  

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

Yes, he met with a Russian lawyer hoping to get dirt on Hillary. Is a meeting with a Russian citizen a meeting with the Russians? No tap dancing Raz.

He didn't go to meet with a Russian citizen.

 

"Don

Hope all is well

Emin asked that I schedule a meeting with you and The Russian government attorney who is flying over from Moscow for this Thursday.

I believe you are aware of the meeting – and so wondered if 3pm or later on Thursday works for you?"

 

 

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

Yes, he met with a Russian lawyer hoping to get dirt on Hillary. Is a meeting with a Russian citizen a meeting with the Russians? No tap dancing Raz.

BTW - That was the wording of the question - you danced and danced.

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22 hours ago, Bus Driver said:
22 hours ago, Dog said:

No, but the sampling could be. There's lots of ways to skin a cat, these guys are masters.

So, you are just looking for a reason to dismiss the results.  Got it.

 

22 hours ago, Dog said:

I take all shit like this with a grain of salt.

Polls? I have not a lot of faith in polls. A recent US election substantiates my position with polls.

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