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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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75 posts in this topic

America's Cup Event Authority is listing 2 x AC45s made by Core Builders in NZ. 

This comes with a tent, moorings, crane, shore handling gear and some spare parts (including North Sails sails). Each boat is currently packed in 2 containers in Bermuda; one for the hull and one for the wing.

Please submit an offer in a direct message.

Thanks for your interest and support of the 35th America's Cup.

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Hull numbers?

Mileage, major repairs, umpire boat 'incidents', Pb % etc.....

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Somebody want to start a price pool?

I'll start by guessing: $100,000

Is there anything left on Teaky's desk?

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Smart option would be to offer the whole fleet to the Volvo for their in port racing tender.

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Have they ever been crashed? 

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That's a pretty strong hint at the fate of the ACWS circus. The king rats are abandoning SS Framework Agreement and dumping stock before the market is inundated with surplu-to-requirements AC45s.

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And we believe this dude with a single post to his name why?

If he can post a link to an actual website etc, then fine otherwise show us yer tits and then fuck off.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

And we believe this dude with a single post to his name why?

If he can post a link to an actual website etc, then fine otherwise show us yer tits and then fuck off.

The only thing I think the ACEA would be advertising is for a new chief executive

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34 minutes ago, mako23 said:

The only thing I think the ACEA would be advertising is for a new chief executive

Don't be fucking stupid!! ACEA has a very limited life-span and will be folded once the hand-over to ETNZ is complete..

Maybe that village is not looking too hard for you after all - I can see why!!!:lol:

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8 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

Smart option would be to offer the whole fleet to the Volvo for their in port racing tender.

why would they go there!!  There are plenty of new better options out there.  

AC45 are dead in the water so to speak.  They have appalling foiling performance and were transitional tech at best.  you would be 100x better off with gc32, or even mc32. and why would Volvo go with hard wings.  its just doesnt compute for the.  this round the in port races are in the volvo boats.  next round i guess they will be in gc32. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Qman said:

why would they go there!!  There are plenty of new better options out there.  

AC45 are dead in the water so to speak.  They have appalling foiling performance and were transitional tech at best.  you would be 100x better off with gc32, or even mc32. and why would Volvo go with hard wings.  its just doesnt compute for the.  this round the in port races are in the volvo boats.  next round i guess they will be in gc32. 

 

I think they might still be a useful development platform for an ac50 campaign 

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17 minutes ago, Qman said:

why would they go there!!  There are plenty of new better options out there.  

AC45 are dead in the water so to speak.  They have appalling foiling performance and were transitional tech at best.  you would be 100x better off with gc32, or even mc32. and why would Volvo go with hard wings.  its just doesnt compute for the.  this round the in port races are in the volvo boats.  next round i guess they will be in gc32. 

 

Because there are about 10 out there that could be picked up for cents on the dollar.

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5 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I think they might still be a useful development platform for an ac50 campaign 

Do you have any brain cells left?? WHO is their right fucking mind would want a "development platform for an AC50 campaign" 3 weeks after the end of AC35???

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6 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Because there are about 10 out there that could be picked up for cents on the dollar.

cheap crap is still crap

 

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1 minute ago, Indio said:

Do you have any brain cells left?? WHO is their right fucking mind would want a "development platform for an AC50 campaign" 3 weeks after the end of AC35???

 and those 10+ Ac45s used as test surrogates made all the difference in this AC.  BAR produced 4 of them alone. we know where that got them.  Artemis folded one up for easy storage. 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Qman said:

 and those 10+ Ac45s used as test surrogates made all the difference in this AC.  BAR produced 4 of them alone. we know where that got them.  Artemis folded one up for easy storage. 

 

 

and their foiling performance the the lil America's Cup was ... well they didn't foil at all in the regatta

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41 minutes ago, Qman said:

 BAR produced 4 of them alone.

How could they be so poor with four ac45 to do development work with.

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1 hour ago, Qman said:

 and those 10+ Ac45s used as test surrogates made all the difference in this AC.  BAR produced 4 of them alone. we know where that got them.  Artemis folded one up for easy storage. 

 

 

 

AC45s (one design - ACWS) not the Teams' surrogates

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17 hours ago, Sailing88 said:

made by Core Builders in NZ

Are there any that aren't? :blink:

 

1 hour ago, Qman said:

Artemis folded one up for easy storage. 

Wat?! They broke another boat? :wacko:

 

7 hours ago, Indio said:

That's a pretty strong hint at the fate of the ACWS circus.

ACWS was supposed to switch to AC50s anyway. I think starting later this year?

Seeing how delicate & logistically challenging they seemed in BDA I'm not convinced that an AC50 circuit would have worked at all :unsure:

I'm especially curious how foil & new boat limits would have worked, would the slower boats have been able to make major revisions to get up to speed?

 

At least with the AC45s all teams were guaranteed a competitive boat (give or take kingpost mods) for the series, they are a known entity with a bunch of boats available for new teams to get started.

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5 hours ago, jaysper said:

And we believe this dude with a single post to his name why?

 

Good point, well made.

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They got me at "comes with a crane"

Yeah, sure. 

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Since when did 45 ft hulls fit in 40 ft containers. BS me thinks.

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2 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Since when did 45 ft hulls fit in 40 ft containers. BS me thinks.

So that's the best part of 8 years you have not been paying attention then.....

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16 hours ago, Barnyb said:

and their foiling performance the the lil America's Cup was ... well they didn't foil at all in the regatta

yeah basically, and when they did they were barely faster than the boat next to them just flying a hull.   amazing how small and fat the foils look in comparison .

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15 hours ago, nav said:

 

AC45s (one design - ACWS) not the Teams' surrogates

yes but they were based on ac45 hull form 

 

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4 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Since when did 45 ft hulls fit in 40 ft containers. BS me thinks.

that was the whole point of them, they do fit, i think the sterns come off actually.  

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1 hour ago, Qman said:

that was the whole point of them, they do fit, i think the sterns come off actually.  

Yup, especially if you give them to Artemis to sail. Then they will fit nicely into an apple box :D

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2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yup, especially if you give them to Artemis to sail. Then they will fit nicely into an apple box :D

ouch!

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3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

ouch!

It's ok to say it now that they've made it through the AC without anyone else dying. 

I have to admit that when they had that accident I wished they would go home in case someone else died. Thank goodness nobody did.

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37 minutes ago, jaysper said:

It's ok to say it now that they've made it through the AC without anyone else dying. 

I have to admit that when they had that accident I wished they would go home in case someone else died. Thank goodness nobody did.

I think Nathan died a little inside as he dived off the boat in race 3

 

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4 hours ago, jaysper said:

Yup, especially if you give them to Artemis to sail. Then they will fit nicely into an apple box :D

Russel tried to take the bows off in one of the ACWS.

 

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6 hours ago, Qman said:

that was the whole point of them, they do fit, i think the sterns come off actually.  

Ah that's something I didn't know, makes sense. Still think it's BS though.

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2 minutes ago, Qman said:

I think Nathan died a little inside as he dived off the boat in race 3

 

Probably. I admired the way he carried himself through this cup.

Percy was pretty good, but could have done without the tanty at the umpires though.

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10 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Probably. I admired the way he carried himself through this cup.

Percy was pretty good, but could have done without the tanty at the umpires though.

generally agree, they were very good how they handled themselves. and NO was great in the commentary after. 

 

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10 hours ago, Qman said:

the sterns come off actually.  

Rubbish.

Hull with the bow off

AC45-1468.jpg

Bow

AC45-828.jpg

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

Rubbish.

Hull with the bow off

AC45-1468.jpg

Bow

AC45-828.jpg

Them bowz iz way too long to be korld bowz buster, methinks Qman had it ryt

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On 7/17/2017 at 11:47 PM, jaysper said:

And we believe this dude with a single post to his name why?

If he can post a link to an actual website etc, then fine otherwise show us yer tits and then fuck off.

Make an offer

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On 7/17/2017 at 2:28 PM, nav said:

Hull numbers?

Mileage, major repairs, umpire boat 'incidents', Pb % etc.....

These boats were bought in 2011, and used in the RBYAC circuit in 2017. No major damages and the spare parts come packed in the container with the boat include winches, carbon fiber, rope, sails etc. 

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17 hours ago, hoom said:

Rubbish.

Hull with the bow off

AC45-1468.jpg

Bow

AC45-828.jpg

you can see the hull section stops at the rear beam.  the sterns come off

 

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9 hours ago, Sailing88 said:

Make an offer

€50. Has about the same level of credibility as you claiming to have them for sale.

Post a link and provide some proof that you are associated with said link, otherwise well....

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2 hours ago, Qman said:

you can see the hull section stops at the rear beam.  the sterns come off

 

Dude you seriously need to work on your irony detection skills. 

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21 hours ago, Wolkenzug said:

Dude you seriously need to work on your irony detection skills. 

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 5:43 PM, mako23 said:

I think they might still be a useful development platform for an ac50 campaign 

Always assuming such a thing exists, post AC35. In any case, why bother? The boats showed to be absolute dogs in the Red Bull Youth regatta. As has been said, there are plenty of much more attractive options out there.

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15 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Always assuming such a thing exists, post AC35. In any case, why bother? The boats showed to be absolute dogs in the Red Bull Youth regatta. As has been said, there are plenty of much more attractive options out there.

If there is no foiling cats in the next AC then there only use is anchor weights or nordic funeral 

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1 minute ago, mako23 said:

If there is no foiling cats in the next AC then there only use is anchor weights or nordic funeral 

Too much toxic black smoke I think, mako. Takes a lot of heat to vaporise the resin, before it really starts to burn too. ;)

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17 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Too much toxic black smoke I think, mako. Takes a lot of heat to vaporise the resin, before it really starts to burn too. ;)

So your telling me there so frikken useless boats you cant even burn them. They wouldn't work as anchor weights either. You cant let normal sailors on to them because they would pitch poll and kill you, or break a leg.  You need an hydraulic engineer to keep the foils working.  They are like F1 cars with expensive personnel to drive them and a whole support team to maintain them. Even if they were on some racing circuit the cost of maintenance would be f^%$$n expensive. Just like there is no real racing series for old F1 cars there will be no racing for these boats.  Best solution is to put some old steel in the hulls take it out to sea and put a few  gun shot holes through it. Drink some beer and salute them when they go down. Of course the ETNZ AC50 should be given to the nautical museum.  

All this hypothesis is based on there being monohulls for the next AC.....which I'm betting on

Also the planet is littered with AC hulls just sitting there wasting space, better they get turned into nautical reefs

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45 minutes ago, mako23 said:

So your telling me there so frikken useless boats you cant even burn them. They wouldn't work as anchor weights either. You cant let normal sailors on to them because they would pitch poll and kill you, or break a leg.  You need an hydraulic engineer to keep the foils working.  They are like F1 cars with expensive personnel to drive them and a whole support team to maintain them. Even if they were on some racing circuit the cost of maintenance would be f^%$$n expensive. Just like there is no real racing series for old F1 cars there will be no racing for these boats.  Best solution is to put some old steel in the hulls take it out to sea and put a few  gun shot holes through it. Drink some beer and salute them when they go down. Of course the ETNZ AC50 should be given to the nautical museum.  

All this hypothesis is based on there being monohulls for the next AC.....which I'm betting on

Also the planet is littered with AC hulls just sitting there wasting space, better they get turned into nautical reefs

regardless of the next ac class the AC45f are what we are talking about and they have no place in the future. 

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Always assuming such a thing exists, post AC35. In any case, why bother? The boats showed to be absolute dogs in the Red Bull Youth regatta. As has been said, there are plenty of much more attractive options out there.

they are basically useless as a development platform. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Qman said:

regardless of the next ac class the AC45f are what we are talking about and they have no place in the future. 

Fair point...however I would argue that there both going the way of the Dodo bird. Destroying Russell Coutts legacy, will give Grant Dalton a lot of pleasure.  Would GD be so petty as to do that, yep he sure would, I've been watching the man since the early 80's. Hes had to fight and scrap for everything hes won, which is done via a cast iron will and caustic personality. I really respect the guy and have some admiration for him. But he does hold a grudge and the recent press releases indicates that's coming through. Boat to crewed by nationals of challenging yacht club and boat to be built there ......is a giant F$%K off Oracle

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2 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Fair point...however I would argue that there both going the way of the Dodo bird. Destroying Russell Coutts legacy, will give Grant Dalton a lot of pleasure.  Would GD be so petty as to do that, yep he sure would, I've been watching the man since the early 80's. Hes had to fight and scrap for everything hes won, which is done via a cast iron will and caustic personality. I really respect the guy and have some admiration for him. But he does hold a grudge and the recent press releases indicates that's coming through. Boat to crewed by nationals of challenging yacht club and boat to be built there ......is a giant F$%K off Oracle

even GD knows it is about commercial success not about "sticking it to RC"

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27 minutes ago, Qman said:

even GD knows it is about commercial success not about "sticking it to RC"

I would normally agree with you but there is a reason for the real hate. Oracle tried to engineer the firing of Grant Dalton,  when that failed they tried to strangle money out of their coffers. They then engineered them losing a round robin race in Auckland which directly effected there government funding. Oracle did some really nasty shit to ETNZ and now its pay back time. Oracle will get what they did to us...which will be GD mindset. To be honest Russell Coutts and Jimmy Spithill acted terribly.  I suspect its more Russell Coutts than Jimmy. However theirs something not quite right about Russell. When he took the Swiss Billionaire money he left his child in NZ to face the music. I pray to god that nobody was stupid enough to say anything to that innocent child. However it must of put the kid through hell via just the stress alone. The point I'm trying to make is Russell is narcissistic and cares about nobody but himself.  Where ever he goes problems seem to exist. His last role was most probably a move sideways because of his personality.  Please remember Russell is not the only one who took Swiss money. However I'm not slagging them off. Russell just seems to cause problems and some of them are coming to roost ...big time

 

As a human being Dennis Conner is much better than Russell Coutts

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26 minutes ago, mako23 said:

I would normally agree with you but there is a reason for the real hate. Oracle tried to engineer the firing of Grant Dalton,  when that failed they tried to strangle money out of their coffers. They then engineered them losing a round robin race in Auckland which directly effected there government funding. Oracle did some really nasty shit to ETNZ and now its pay back time. Oracle will get what they did to us...which will be GD mindset. To be honest Russell Coutts and Jimmy Spithill acted terribly.  I suspect its more Russell Coutts than Jimmy. However theirs something not quite right about Russell. When he took the Swiss Billionaire money he left his child in NZ to face the music. I pray to god that nobody was stupid enough to say anything to that innocent child. However it must of put the kid through hell via just the stress alone. The point I'm trying to make is Russell is narcissistic and cares about nobody but himself.  Where ever he goes problems seem to exist. His last role was most probably a move sideways because of his personality.  Please remember Russell is not the only one who took Swiss money. However I'm not slagging them off. Russell just seems to cause problems and some of them are coming to roost ...big time

 

As a human being Dennis Conner is much better than Russell Coutts

there is no better payback than what they just did.  

 

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2 hours ago, Qman said:

there is no better payback than what they just did.  

 

I agree and I wish Dalton had acted more graciously after the win.

 But he does seem to have a pretty vindictive streak. I wonder how far he will take it.

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22 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I agree and I wish Dalton had acted more graciously after the win.

 But he does seem to have a pretty vindictive streak. I wonder how far he will take it.

That's the 64 thousand dollar question Jaysper....how far will he take it ????? I wish I knew,  and I'm glad I'm not on the receiving end 

 

Picture Of Soon To Be Unemployed Warkworth Boat Builder.......

and the body count starts

 

AC45-1468.jpg

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16 hours ago, mako23 said:

So your telling me there so frikken useless boats you cant even burn them. They wouldn't work as anchor weights either. You cant let normal sailors on to them because they would pitch poll and kill you, or break a leg.  You need an hydraulic engineer to keep the foils working.  They are like F1 cars with expensive personnel to drive them and a whole support team to maintain them. Even if they were on some racing circuit the cost of maintenance would be f^%$$n expensive. Just like there is no real racing series for old F1 cars there will be no racing for these boats.  Best solution is to put some old steel in the hulls take it out to sea and put a few  gun shot holes through it. Drink some beer and salute them when they go down. Of course the ETNZ AC50 should be given to the nautical museum.  

All this hypothesis is based on there being monohulls for the next AC.....which I'm betting on

Also the planet is littered with AC hulls just sitting there wasting space, better they get turned into nautical reefs

Sad but true. Here's an idea: What about removing the beams, filling the hulls with potting mix and using them as planter boxes just outside the Waterview Tunnel entrance? A few well chosen hebes and maybe some variegated flax for texture and height - could look just the ticket.

Of course, there would have to be a few drain holes drilled in the hulls, but it's not like they'll ever float again, so....

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

Sad but true. Here's an idea: What about removing the beams, filling the hulls with potting mix and using them as planter boxes just outside the Waterview Tunnel entrance? A few well chosen hebes and maybe some variegated flax for texture and height - could look just the ticket.

Of course, there would have to be a few drain holes drilled in the hulls, but it's not like they'll ever float again, so....

Thats the Cats sorted out, as for the spare IACC hulls floating about, maybe you could rip the top deck off put a cabin on, so you can stand up in the thing. Put a cheap diesel in and hey presto motor boat, albiet a strange and ugly looking one. You would want the Hull for a song ......like free. Still a better solution than them being on the hard collecting dust.

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PM Barnum & Baileys they have been using the same MO for forever

Tents and all 

 

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ironically these cats are way more valuable without the foiling than with it.  they actually sailed pretty well without the foils

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 5:51 AM, Fat Point Jack said:

Somebody want to start a price pool?

I'll start by guessing: $100,000

Is there anything left on Teaky's desk?

Very little.  

 

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i'm not too sure why you guys didn't like the foiling ac45's (assuming the ones being referred to are the ACWS cats)

they made the Americas cup more than something only yachties will watch and be interested in

maybe it just because after this AC, no one but TNZ fans are left and they all hate anything that is to do with oracle

can someone please give me a reason why they were bad boats?

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8 hours ago, Qman said:

ironically these cats are way more valuable without the foiling than with it.  they actually sailed pretty well without the foils

 

And replacing the wings with a normal rig they would actually be useful and some one with to much money could buy them and sail then for fun with a professional crew. If it would not have been for the hate between Alinghi and Oracle I am sure that one or two would end up in lake Geneva.

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42 minutes ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

i'm not too sure why you guys didn't like the foiling ac45's (assuming the ones being referred to are the ACWS cats)

they made the Americas cup more than something only yachties will watch and be interested in

maybe it just because after this AC, no one but TNZ fans are left and they all hate anything that is to do with oracle

can someone please give me a reason why they were bad boats?

I dont think there bad boats in themselves but the attempt to turn them into foiling cats was not a success. From what I understand they were high maintenance and not easy to drive. I dont think the AC50 were any better in this regard. In these boats foiling stability was sacrificed for out and out speed.  In some ways they were dangerous to drive. AC72 boats killed while AC50 could mame.  Its only a mater of time before an AC45 or AC50 really hurts someone or kill them. They have an inherint flaw which is you must trade stability for speed. 

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44 minutes ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

i'm not too sure why you guys didn't like the foiling ac45's (assuming the ones being referred to are the ACWS cats)

they made the Americas cup more than something only yachties will watch and be interested in

maybe it just because after this AC, no one but TNZ fans are left and they all hate anything that is to do with oracle

can someone please give me a reason why they were bad boats?

thats just not true, its not because they were OR,  they had their time but the ac45f have no further place.  They WERE a good leader to the ac72 and the ac50 but the ac50 particularly where and are so so much more superior in every respect.  to make a comparison or suggest they have relevance to where AC50 got to is just embarrassing now.  Seeing them in the youth AC only demonstrated how far they have come since then.  I recall seeing the first time i saw an AC45 and i was blown away. But a few years on and the YAC was pretty bad.   Put an AC45f next to a GC32 and tell me which is better set up and optimised for its purpose.  

 

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On 7/18/2017 at 1:54 AM, Indio said:

 

On 7/19/2017 at 3:45 PM, Sailing88 said:

These boats were bought in 2011, and used in the RBYAC circuit in 2017. No major damages and the spare parts come packed in the container with the boat include winches, carbon fiber, rope, sails etc. 

I need two hulls, two beams, two rudders, and two daggerboards, and I have 15k to spend on it.  How's that sound?  Don't need wings, sails, rigs, electronics, any of it.  This is for a powered foiling media boat.

 

I almost bought Stars & Stripes for that much, and she is 60 feet!

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ok, i see both of your points

its probably time to move the boats themselves along, but i think that it would be a really good idea to keep the ACWS going, tio draw interest

it is fairly likley that the next AC boat will not be similar to the last 2 so i think if ETNZ brought out something like the ac45 was to the ac72 and raced it in a fleet tour that would be sick and a really good idea for the next AC in general and it will be the only way IMO that they will make this upcoming AC as good or better than 35

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These hulls might make great arma's for a 50' tri. The added righting moment would prolly make the foils useless but for a off sure racing tri?

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7 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

ok, i see both of your points

its probably time to move the boats themselves along, but i think that it would be a really good idea to keep the ACWS going, tio draw interest

it is fairly likley that the next AC boat will not be similar to the last 2 so i think if ETNZ brought out something like the ac45 was to the ac72 and raced it in a fleet tour that would be sick and a really good idea for the next AC in general and it will be the only way IMO that they will make this upcoming AC as good or better than 35

agree that it should be something new and relevant to the ac class that are raced in the acws.  happy for the acws to continue but not sure about any points carrying into the finals. 

 

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having said that how cool would the ac50 be in a acws event.  fleet racing these puppies would be brilliant.  I think that the match racing part should be part of the ACWS again also

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