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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

AC36 Auckland NZ

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5 hours ago, hoom said:

:lol::huh:

During this period NZ has become the mecca for rich libertarians to build their bolt-holes & we get quoted as the libertarian example in other countries.

We're literally one of the most libertarian countries on the planet, in a bunch of things almost certainly the most libertarian other than Somalia & the newly created libertarian paradise Libya.

 

Light rail is absolutely necessary & was already coming soon to a Dominion Rd near you simply because its already saturated with buses & because Symonds St at the CBD end will be literally all buses all the time in a couple of years. (but should never have been pitched as 'we need it for the Airport', its mostly about getting rapid transit into the central Isthmus & Mangere with the Airport as a desirable end-point)

Consider every 3-4 people on a bus is a net reduction in the amount of road space used as shown by the North Shore busway which increased people crossing the Bridge but reduced the number of vehicles.

 

Don't even bother with your autonomous vehicles magical thinking crap, they are basically the same arguments that were used to destroy Aucklands original Tram network.

Just who do you think will be paying to buy the massive fleet of autonomous vehicles necessary to make that work anyway? The small government with small tax for small minded fools? :wacko:

You know, I was half way through a well reasoned argument for why almost everything you say is wrong when I realised there is no point.

Your religion makes you utterly immune to critical thinking.

 

 

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

Your religion makes you utterly immune to critical thinking.

Says the hardcore libertarian fanatic fantasist :lol:

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10 hours ago, jaysper said:

You know, I was half way through a well reasoned argument for why almost everything you say is wrong when I realised there is no point.

Your religion makes you utterly immune to critical thinking.

 

 

You have never been half way through a well reasoned argument! Why start now.

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

You have never been half way through a well reasoned argument! Why start now.

Ha ha ha. Too true, Barny. What ya got, Jays? ;)

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12 hours ago, jaysper said:

You know, I was half way through a well reasoned argument for why almost everything you say is wrong when I realised there is no point.

Your religion makes you utterly immune to critical thinking.

 

 

He probably rides a bike too...and voted for Labour.

Enough said

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On 12/1/2017 at 6:48 PM, Count Drac said:

Looks good, BUT....

Where do the fishing boats that currently use Halsey go to?

Where does the steam tug "William C Daldy" go to?

Where do the boats that current berth inside Hobson wharf go to?

Where does the Waiheke and GBI car ferry go to?

Do Ports of Auckland have room to move these vessels to other berths that have similar facilities and truck access?

Somewhere else is where they go - who really cares

Cheers

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17 minutes ago, damagesmith said:

He probably rides a bike too...and voted for Labour.

Enough said

He does ride a bike. But you can't hold that against him.

I very much doubt he voted Labour, Greens or NZ First though. He has more sense. ;)

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

He does ride a bike. But you can't hold that against him.

I very much doubt he voted Labour, Greens or NZ First though. He has more sense. ;)

He has 'some sense'!

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9 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Ha ha ha. Too true, Barny. What ya got, Jays? ;)

I believe the term "don't teach a pig to fly" comes to mind SBD :)

No point in arguing with someone for whom the realm of possibilities is limited to that which currently resides in their physical realm. Oooh look, a train! That's something that exists now so it must be the future! LOL!

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

 Oooh look, a train!

In the 1960s and 70s everyone believed trains were a quaint Victorian relic. In the UK however passengers carried has doubled over the last 2 decades and millennials aren't learning to drive.

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

....and millennials aren't learning to drive.

Neither are fucking Asians judging by playing dodg'ems with them on Auckland roads!!

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

In the 1960s and 70s everyone believed trains were a quaint Victorian relic. In the UK however passengers carried has doubled over the last 2 decades and millennials aren't learning to drive.

Turns out they are worth 1.5 billion dollars a year to the New Zealand economy as well, but most people seem to hate them because *gasp* people have to share them, which every good capitalist knows is an inherently evil concept that must be stamped out in case it spreads.

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Roads being the ultimate example of how The Market Will Provide could never work.

Imagine if Roads were planned, built & run as an unregulated, competitive, profit making, market...

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41 minutes ago, hoom said:

Roads being the ultimate example of how The Market Will Provide could never work.

Imagine if Roads were planned, built & run as an unregulated, competitive, profit making, market...

Judging by most peoples choice of vehicle these days, everyone already seems to be preparing for that inevitable day where the roads just become unmaintained seas of mud provided by free market.

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10 hours ago, dogwatch said:

In the 1960s and 70s everyone believed trains were a quaint Victorian relic. In the UK however passengers carried has doubled over the last 2 decades and millennials aren't learning to drive.

One small problem is that most train services are subsidized. Certainly most if not all in NZ are heavily subsidized. 

When you hear people talk about how wonderful some places trains are, you will generally find heavy subsidies in place.

Even in Singapore where the population density and dispersal is pretty much ideal for trains there is a heavy program of subsidisation.

It is therefore dishonest to proclaim the efficacy of trains when the playing field is so definitively tilted in their favour.

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2 hours ago, jaysper said:

When you hear people talk about how wonderful some places trains are, you will generally find heavy subsidies in place.

 

Actually the train service in my region, which is one of the larger operators, pays net cash into the government.

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I don't know about other countries but in New Zealand the roading system outside community areas is provided by the NBA (National Road Board) funded by the taxpayer .. railways should also be provided by the same NBA so that balanced decisions can be made about the most economic method of transport.

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5 hours ago, hoom said:

Roads being the ultimate example of how The Market Will Provide could never work.

Imagine if Roads were planned, built & run as an unregulated, competitive, profit making, market...

Circles come to mind. ;)

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

One small problem is that most train services are subsidized. Certainly most if not all in NZ are heavily subsidized. 

When you hear people talk about how wonderful some places trains are, you will generally find heavy subsidies in place.

Even in Singapore where the population density and dispersal is pretty much ideal for trains there is a heavy program of subsidisation.

It is therefore dishonest to proclaim the efficacy of trains when the playing field is so definitively tilted in their favour.

Yeah. But most people manage ignore this. Just like E-vehicles, solar and wind electricity generation.

All supposedly the way of the future, provided they continue to be heavily subsidised by the masses. 

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Actually the train service in my region, which is one of the larger operators, pays net cash into the government.

And that's great, but it is also not the norm and is most definitely not the norm in NZ.

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23 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Yeah. But most people manage ignore this. Just like E-vehicles, solar and wind electricity generation.

All supposedly the way of the future, provided they continue to be heavily subsidised by the masses. 

Sssssssssh! Don't spook the horses!

Actually I think electric vehicles are the future also, just not the pieces of garbage they currently manufacture.

There needs to be a VERY significant advancement in electrical storage that will allow us to build EVs cheaply in an environmentally friendly manner plus allow us to store massive amounts of electricity generated by erratic generation sources such as solar and wind.

When that happens, EVs will become the financially and ecologically obvious choice. But not before.

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Actually the train service in my region, which is one of the larger operators, pays net cash into the government.

Citizen. Please. Remember where you are, think of the narrative.

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3 minutes ago, DayTripper said:

Citizen. Please. Remember where you are, think of the narrative.

It's your compatriots who seem keen on talking about trains. Now that pretty much all that can be said about the AC75 at this point has already been said, we are back into a slow news period. However I can reassure you that personally as far as this discussion is concerned, I am trained-out.

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I think it gets Emission Trading exemption or something but thats relatively recent, most of the NZ windfarms were built without it & are profit making.

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9 hours ago, DayTripper said:

Wot? New Zealand wind generation is subsidised? Got a link for that?

So who are you going to believe? The WEA's or the sceptics, deniers and legacy generators and grid operators?

Try this one for starters: https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2010/12/nz-wind-farm-subsidies/

 

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10 hours ago, jaysper said:

Sssssssssh! Don't spook the horses!

Actually I think electric vehicles are the future also, just not the pieces of garbage they currently manufacture.

There needs to be a VERY significant advancement in electrical storage that will allow us to build EVs cheaply in an environmentally friendly manner plus allow us to store massive amounts of electricity generated by erratic generation sources such as solar and wind.

When that happens, EVs will become the financially and ecologically obvious choice. But not before.

I seriously looked at a VW E-Golf recently. RANGE - 200km! I don't think so.

Wake me up when they get to 500km and I might have another look - but I'll still be balking at a $73,000 price tag. I could still get the top-of-the-line gas-guzzler 'R' rocket ship for that!

On the other hand, I 'could' plug an E-Golf into any number of FREE (aka, heavily subsidised) charging stations around the country and ignore NZL's apparently rapacious petrol industry. Tough call.

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15 hours ago, jaysper said:

One small problem is that most train services are subsidized. Certainly most if not all in NZ are heavily subsidized. 

When you hear people talk about how wonderful some places trains are, you will generally find heavy subsidies in place.

Even in Singapore where the population density and dispersal is pretty much ideal for trains there is a heavy program of subsidisation.

It is therefore dishonest to proclaim the efficacy of trains when the playing field is so definitively tilted in their favour.

Given $1.5 billion in annual economic benefit that just makes good economic sense.

That and the fact that anyone who thinks roads aren't a subsidised service is pretty bonkers! Everytime you hear the words "road of national significance" your talking some serious public money!

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3 hours ago, Boybland said:

Given $1.5 billion in annual economic benefit that just makes good economic sense.

That and the fact that anyone who thinks roads aren't a subsidised service is pretty bonkers! Everytime you hear the words "road of national significance" your talking some serious public money!

So, you need to sort some facts out sparky.

Where do you think the fuel taxes, etc go? Precisely why do you think a new regional fuel tax is being introduced in Auckland?

In fact up until about 10 years ago, the Government skimmed some of the transport related taxes off the top and used them to fund other initiatives.

The only taxes collected on bus and trains usage are GST AFAIK and they are heavily subsidised.

Here in Wellington approximately 60% of our Regional Council taxes are spent on public transport subsidies. If these services are so excellent, why do they need subsidies?

 

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I seriously looked at a VW E-Golf recently. RANGE - 200km! I don't think so.

Wake me up when they get to 500km and I might have another look - but I'll still be balking at a $73,000 price tag. I could still get the top-of-the-line gas-guzzler 'R' rocket ship for that!

On the other hand, I 'could' plug an E-Golf into any number of FREE (aka, heavily subsidised) charging stations around the country and ignore NZL's apparently rapacious petrol industry. Tough call.

For me, the range is not the problem because once EVs reach critical mass you will be able to charge your car up in LOTs of places within about 5 or 10 minutes.

Additionally, maintenance on EVs is much lower than ICE based vehicles (with the exception of the battery) and EVs will out accelerate an ICE vehicle any old day of the week.

The problems at the moment are:

 

1. The batteries are too costly and aren't exactly environmentally friendly.

2. We have insufficient generation and grid capacity to charge a fleet that is made up mostly of EVs.

If we get a breakthrough in battery technology, it will resolve these issues and EVs will be a no brainer. I am reasonably optimistic that this will happen within the next decade or so.

Once it does, I will switch to EV once my gas guzzler is ready to be replaced.

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I seriously looked at a VW E-Golf recently. RANGE - 200km! I don't think so.

Wake me up when they get to 500km and I might have another look - but I'll still be balking at a $73,000 price tag. I could still get the top-of-the-line gas-guzzler 'R' rocket ship for that!

On the other hand, I 'could' plug an E-Golf into any number of FREE (aka, heavily subsidised) charging stations around the country and ignore NZL's apparently rapacious petrol industry. Tough call.

More and more EV's on our roads will inevitably lead to higher electricity costs for all consumers..

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4 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

I seriously looked at a VW E-Golf recently. RANGE - 200km! I don't think so.

Wake me up when they get to 500km and I might have another look - but I'll still be balking at a $73,000 price tag. I could still get the top-of-the-line gas-guzzler 'R' rocket ship for that!

On the other hand, I 'could' plug an E-Golf into any number of FREE (aka, heavily subsidised) charging stations around the country and ignore NZL's apparently rapacious petrol industry. Tough call.

Sounds like the new Tesla Roadster will be right for you..

900+ km range, 0-100km in 1.9secs.

They're not cheap, but I hear there will be a good used one available soon. The downside is it will be as is, where is and location = Mars.

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1 minute ago, waterboy42 said:

Sounds like the new Tesla Roadster will be right for you..

900+ km range, 0-100km in 1.9secs.

They're not cheap, but I hear there will be a good used one available soon. The downside is it will be as is, where is and location = Mars.

I know people through friends who both have Tesla's on order, deposits paid. The question is, will they devalue quicker than an Audi - or will they actually appreciate like the first ever Honda Civics when released. (I missed out on one of those too - suggesting they were a bit expensive at the time!)

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42 minutes ago, jaysper said:

For me, the range is not the problem because once EVs reach critical mass you will be able to charge your car up in LOTs of places within about 5 or 10 minutes.

Additionally, maintenance on EVs is much lower than ICE based vehicles (with the exception of the battery) and EVs will out accelerate an ICE vehicle any old day of the week.

The problems at the moment are:

 

1. The batteries are too costly and aren't exactly environmentally friendly.

2. We have insufficient generation and grid capacity to charge a fleet that is made up mostly of EVs.

If we get a breakthrough in battery technology, it will resolve these issues and EVs will be a no brainer. I am reasonably optimistic that this will happen within the next decade or so.

Once it does, I will switch to EV once my gas guzzler is ready to be replaced.

The best thing about EV's is the fact that women haven't yet cottoned-on to the fact that they are incredibly quick off the mark. My wife said a pretty definite 'NO' to VW's turbo rocket ship but a luke-warm 'yeah, maybe' to the E-Golf. Plus there's always the 'environmental card' to play.

Check this baby out...

Screen Shot 2017-11-19 at 7.48.03 AM.png

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

So, you need to sort some facts out sparky.

Where do you think the fuel taxes, etc go? Precisely why do you think a new regional fuel tax is being introduced in Auckland?

In fact up until about 10 years ago, the Government skimmed some of the transport related taxes off the top and used them to fund other initiatives.

The only taxes collected on bus and trains usage are GST AFAIK and they are heavily subsidised.

Here in Wellington approximately 60% of our Regional Council taxes are spent on public transport subsidies. If these services are so excellent, why do they need subsidies?

 

As per the Ministry of Transport website:

Revenue for land transport comes mostly from motorists through fuel excise duty (petrol tax), road user charges on diesel vehicles (RUC), and vehicle licensing charges. The Land Transport Management Act 2003 ring-fences this revenue for investment in land transport, including building and maintaining State highways and local roads.

State highways are funded entirely by central government, with maintenance responsibilities and expenses falling on the NZ Transport Agency(external link).

The costs of building and maintaining local roads are shared between central government (through the NZ Transport Agency) and local councils. Councils contribute to the cost of their land transport activities from rates and borrowing, in what is known as the ‘local share’.

The government’s priorities for land transport funding are set out through the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport, which allocates ranges within which road improvements and maintenance can be funded.  Each local council then prepares a Regional Land Transport Plan, which the NZ Transport Agency considers when preparing the National Land Transport Programme (NLTP). The NLTP allocates funding to individual roading projects. This separation of the Minister from individual funding decisions is designed to help avoid perceptions of conflict of interest.

From time to time the government may wish to fund projects which are unable or unsuitable to be funded by charges on motorists alone, or might want to exercise more control over investment than is permitted through this process. In these cases the Crown is able to direct additional funds through the usual Budget processes. Recent examples of this are funding for the Accelerated Regional Roads Package, Urban Cycleways and the SuperGold Card public transport scheme.

 

Both the bolded parts pretty much look like subsidies (or at least public money) to me... Yes a fair whack of it comes from fuel tax and road user charges, but there is clearly a significant public investment on occassion as well.

The other issue not addressed is the fact that road charges are not actually spent in the same regions as the contributions.  So there are drivers in some parts of New Zealand pretty heavily subsidising drivers in other parts.

Pretty sure the main reason the regional fuel tax is being introduced in Auckland is due to about 30 years of under investment...

As for why you should subsidise public transport? Well pretty much every study shows the economic benefits outweigh the costs.  It's cheaper and more efficient than building roads, the costs of moving the same number of people using roads would be astronomical and to do it without subsidy (as in purely using a fuel tax for example) would require something far more than 10 cents a litre being added to fuel in Auckland.

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6 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Thats not really subsidies.

You build a Windfarm and the Grid operator will upgrade the Grid to link in the generation, big whoopie :huh:

Subsidies that most windfarms get is several cents per kW/hr & we have nothing like that.

Great advantage for NZ is we have a heap of Geothermal resource &

 

1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Here in Wellington approximately 60% of our Regional Council taxes are spent on public transport subsidies. If these services are so excellent, why do they need subsidies?

Because to fit that many people on roads in cars would cost fucktons more & leave an incredibly shitty city.

 

1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Where do you think the fuel taxes, etc go?

Land Transport Fund goes nearly exclusively to motorways & other major arterial routes.

Who do you think pays for all the endless kilometers of suburban & country roads?

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38 minutes ago, hoom said:

Great advantage for NZ is we have a heap of Geothermal resource &

Oops failed to end sentence :o

Geothermal is base-load, runs same rate 24/7 except for occasional maintenance, produces far more electricity than Wind.

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

Oops failed to end sentence :o

Geothermal is base-load, runs same rate 24/7 except for occasional maintenance, produces far more electricity than Wind.

Ok, so you need to check facts on geothermal also. Not that cheap (hydro is cheapest by far), is not an infinite resource (they have to keep extending the pipes to new areas where the pressure hasn't died) and does have some admittedly low end environmental impacts.

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57 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Ok, so you need to check facts on geothermal also. Not that cheap (hydro is cheapest by far), is not an infinite resource (they have to keep extending the pipes to new areas where the pressure hasn't died) and does have some admittedly low end environmental impacts.

No current electricity generation format comes without some environmental impact. But as a country NZL is luckier than most.

Take Aussie for example. The more EV's they encourage, the MORE pollution they generate - because 60% (IIRC) of their electricity is generated from burning low-grade brown coal.

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1 hour ago, Sailbydate said:

No current electricity generation format comes without some environmental impact. But as a country NZL is luckier than most.

Take Aussie for example. The more EV's they encourage, the MORE pollution they generate - because 60% (IIRC) of their electricity is generated from burning low-grade brown coal.

This is actually a tough one SBD. You are probably right, but burning coal in a power station allows you to deal with the pollution MUCH mor effectively than burning it at home because you can install scrubbers and electrostatic precipitators, etc which do mitigate a lot of the effects.

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57 minutes ago, jaysper said:

This is actually a tough one SBD. You are probably right, but burning coal in a power station allows you to deal with the pollution MUCH mor effectively than burning it at home because you can install scrubbers and electrostatic precipitators, etc which do mitigate a lot of the effects.

Yeah, it is more efficient to burn the coal in a power station compared to burning it at home, and the scrubbers do trap fly ash and some of the sulpher products. But that's not the point because they don't burn a lot of coal at home in Australia anyway, and they certainly don't burn it at home to produce electricity. 

The main pollutant from burning any fossil fuel is CO2, and there is no way to mitigate it apart from not burning the stuff in the first place. If you are going to burn fossil fuels then it's far better to burn something that has a lot more Hydrogen atoms in relation to Carbon atoms, because it's the hydrogen bonds that give up the most energy when they are oxidised (ie, burned and turned into water).

Methane and other components of natural gas are relatively clean fossil fuels because their molecules have a lot of hydrogen atoms in relation to the number of carbon atoms, but brown coal (lignite) is probably the worst because it's the other way around.

What the fuck any of this has to do with the next AC in Auckland is anybodies guess, unless they plan of burning coal (steam power, anyone?)

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3 hours ago, jaysper said:

Ok, so you need to check facts on geothermal also. Not that cheap (hydro is cheapest by far), is not an infinite resource (they have to keep extending the pipes to new areas where the pressure hasn't died) and does have some admittedly low end environmental impacts.

Much less environmental effects than burning dinosaurs.

And they (allegedly) learned lessons from over-using the early plants, my understanding is the newer ones are more carefully specced to use less heat than the rocks are putting out & with re-injecting water, less of it is lost -> expected to last much much better.

 

Hydro is also neat, built by big tax, big Government though so you should hate it...

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1 hour ago, Count Drac said:

(Snip)

What the fuck any of this has to do with the next AC in Auckland is anybodies guess, unless they plan of burning coal (steam power, anyone?)

With regards to AC75's the size of the boilers and the coal bunkers were always going to be a problem. ;)

Maybe there is a strong case for a turbo diesel after all? :D

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6 hours ago, jaysper said:

This is actually a tough one SBD. You are probably right, but burning coal in a power station allows you to deal with the pollution MUCH mor effectively than burning it at home because you can install scrubbers and electrostatic precipitators, etc which do mitigate a lot of the effects.

Apart from the carbon.

edit...Oh, done I see.

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12 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Check out the Battery powered Tesla Transformer, charging stations back at the dock. 0-50 in a flash!

Maybe. 

Quote

The Model S and Model X vehicles updated Saturday were all built with a 75-kilowatt-hour battery. At full capacity, that’s enough for a Model S to travel about 250 miles. When those cars were first sold, Tesla gave customers the option of a lower-capacity battery at a more affordable price, and some decided to take the savings rather than purchase the full 75-kWh battery.

But downsizing didn’t mean replacing the big battery with a physically smaller one; it just meant using a bit of computer code to restrict how much of the battery the car could access. If the customers wanted, they could later have Tesla lift the software lock by paying an additional fee, which can run into the thousands of dollars.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/09/11/as-hurricane-irma-bore-down-tesla-gave-some-florida-drivers-more-battery-juice-heres-why-thats-a-big-deal/?utm_term=.59f34c686899

I guess it will depend what level of service teams purchase from Tesla.  :lol:

WetHog  :ph34r:

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On 04/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, Indio said:

Why would there be no GST on local purchases of materials (marine suppliers, engineering & machining sub-contractors,etc) and energy used in the SY servicing?? And PAYE on the wages & salaries of the workers doing the servicing? Any imported gear used in the manufacture or servicing of the SY incurs GST when it lands in country, with GST draw-back ONLY if re-exported in the original condition they arrived in the country - i.e. unmodified nor added to a manufactured item.

Why would there be no GST on local purchases of materials...?

Because GST is not paid on zero-rated exports like this.

And PAYE on the wages &...?

Because NZ is pretty much at the natural full employment rate. This also means the 'more jobs for New Zealanders' argument is bunk.

Any imported gear used in the manufacture or servicing of the SY incurs GST when it lands in country...?

Yes but if used in a zero-rated export, the supplier would expect a refund from the GST collected by Customs.

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To the victor goes the toil: Grant Dalton’s daily grind

“The danger is we have a good event and we lose the Cup. Or we have a great team and we don’t have a good Cup. It’s a balance, and I guess because we have good people and we’ve been competing in the Cup for a while, we can share the responsibilities,” he says.

“I’m basically the fire fighter now. Lately we’ve had a few scrub fires to contend with – not so much in the team, but in the event world.”

 

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2017/12/19/70054/to-the-victor-goes-the-toil-grant-daltons-daily-grind

 

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51 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

“The danger is we have a good event and we lose the Cup. Or we have a great team and we don’t have a good Cup. It’s a balance, and I guess because we have good people and we’ve been competing in the Cup for a while, we can share the responsibilities,” he says.(GD)

Good, pretty much exactly what I posted here a few weeks ago :) 

And my predictions were that a good event was coming first now.

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1 hour ago, Barnyb said:

“The danger is we have a good event and we lose the Cup. Or we have a great team and we don’t have a good Cup. It’s a balance

A balance? How does one detract from the other?

Shouldn’t the goal be to have both a good event and a great team simultaneously? 

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34 minutes ago, nav said:

 

^ Manpower

That is clear enough isn't it

Okay, makes sense that this is what he was saying but why is GD trying to take responsibility for the event instead of just the normal team/fundraising?

Who’s the actual Event pro that is going to run the ACE, using the Event Fee money? GD himself told Clean he knows little to nothing about media, let alone the rest of Event management. Him having a hand written list of bleacher and toilet requirements on pages of A3 does seem a little amateur-hour..

Still wondering why any ‘balance’ is necessary. Turn that part over to Pro’s if you want a quality event, maybe even ATEED or whoever ran the ‘11 WRC?

I will give GD this much so far: The JC75’s are absolutely gonna rock, just like he promised back when he spoke to Clean.

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Team NZ's Guillaume Verdier - 'bit nuts' designer who lifted 2021 America's Cup boats out of the water

"I'm sure if there are things that are not going to work, we will fix it with the time we have."

So says Guillaume Verdier, when the New York Times asks the Team New Zealand boat designer if the new America's Cup boats will actually work.

The Frenchman has led the America's Cup in such a radical direction that it's a question which deserves to be asked.

 

In discussion with veteran TNZ member Ray Davies, they talked about getting rid of the"draggy" keel. But Verdier worried that it would capsize easily, so set about putting weight in the foils.

Verdier said: "That is completely counterintuitive because the foil is a lifting surface, so why put lead in a lifting surface?

"We need some stability before we start flying, so we make the foils like canting keels.

"This kind of boat existed in the past, with twin keels, so I said, 'Let's make a kind of twin keel but with foils, not too heavy, just enough so we can right it up at 90 degrees when we cant it the correct way.'"

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11965988&ref=NZH_fb

 

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Quote

The talking stops in just five days in the 36th America's Cup.

The talking stops in just five days

The talking stops   

:huh:

:blink:

:D

 

 

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In AC34 and AC35 it was left to Clubs when to announce if they had filed Challenges and ETNZ hid for a long time - months - the fact they had filed in the first seconds after entry opened in an effort to be first because iirc GD in one of those AC’s ‘didn’t want to blow smoke up their arses’ - ie: he would not allow the Event Authority to advertise the fact that NZ was committed. It (possibly intentionally) weakened the EA’s commercial position given their own low entry numbers to tout as advertising and venue-negotiating leverage.

Is it specified in this AC36 Protocol who gets to announce entries if/as they get accepted? Will GD get to announce anyone/everyone who has filed applications by the opening date on Monday, regardless those teams’ likelihood of following through to the start line and regardless their preference about when to announce it themselves?

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Sea World has Canned the Jumping Killer Whales 

and now KIWIz have Jumping the Sharks

as long as you get it sorted (as well as a replacement for "The Loaded Hog" ) before I get there, I'm Good B)

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from http://yachtcharterworld.co/index.php/2018/01/06/early-morning-report-americas-cup-2021-location-may-perhaps-be-really-worth-up-to-500m/

The Marine Industry Association states the America’s Cup could be really worth virtually $436 million to the regional economy just from tremendous yacht visits by itself.

(vid is from Nov 22)

 

 

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at http://www.sail-world.com/news/200772/Americas-Cup-2017--Bermudas-AC35-playbook

For those who could not make it to Bermuda for the 35th America's Cup this series of nine short videos outline how the various facets of the event came together to produce an unforgettable month of sailing.The population of Bermuda is around just 64,000 people, which made the effort even the more remarkable.

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

from http://yachtcharterworld.co/index.php/2018/01/06/early-morning-report-americas-cup-2021-location-may-perhaps-be-really-worth-up-to-500m/

The Marine Industry Association states the America’s Cup could be really worth virtually $436 million to the regional economy just from tremendous yacht visits by itself.

(vid is from Nov 22)

 

 

Let's hope that Parker and Ardern are astute enough to recognise that some superyacht infrastructure investment now, will lead to economic benefits

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10 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Let's hope that Parker and Ardern are astute enough to recognise that some superyacht infrastructure investment now, will lead to economic benefits

SY-spend was for sure a big part of the benefits Bermuda realized. I think Busfield gives the Bermuda number somewhere in that vid.

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11 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Let's hope that Parker and Ardern are astute enough to recognise that some superyacht infrastructure investment now, will lead to economic benefits

Let's also hope they can recognise spin when they see it. It would be interesting to see how the figures worked out if those making the claims had to cover any shortfall in the numbers.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

from http://yachtcharterworld.co/index.php/2018/01/06/early-morning-report-americas-cup-2021-location-may-perhaps-be-really-worth-up-to-500m/

The Marine Industry Association states the America’s Cup could be really worth virtually $436 million to the regional economy just from tremendous yacht visits by itself.

(vid is from Nov 22)

 

 

A pity that in September several Auckland Councillor thought that the superyacht business is only worth $30million to Auckland/New Zealand and 40% of that was in oil changes - and that level of business wasn't sufficient to be of interest. Then in December they bring in a plan which reduces the number of superyacht berth spaces, and the Minister tries to bring in a plan that shuts down the servicing area for superyacht rig servicing and installation.

 

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12 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Let's also hope they can recognise spin when they see it. It would be interesting to see how the figures worked out if those making the claims had to cover any shortfall in the numbers.

I read somewhere that NZ’s share of the global SY construction business has dropped over the years from around 10% to 2% and that only one was built in 2017. Busfield may be pressing hard to try regain some of that ground.

I think he’s also involved in the possible impacts to Wynyard Point should the proposed govt plan happen, so he’s likely pressing hard for the Council’s plan instead but with more berths. edit: what r’dog said

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Just now, ~Stingray~ said:

I read somewhere that NZ’s share of the global SY construction business has dropped over the years from around 10% to 2% and that only one was built in 2017. Busfield may be pressing hard to try regain some of that ground. I think he’s also involved in the possible impacts to Wynyard Point should the proposed govt plan happen, so he’s likely pressing hard for the Council’s plan instead.

The drop is more related to the 'strength' of the NZD. Kiwi was a good sell when the dollar was low and owners were prepared to handle the travel time required for those involved. With the dollar positioned at it's present point the cost exceeds the inconvenience on a new build. The repairs and refits are a different baby. More boats are doing the pacific and Kiwi is a great place to drop down away from the hurricane season. My understanding is that, apart from the facilities, it is also more popular with the captains and crew for some down time than Aus.

At the same time, these boats and rigs are getting bigger all the time and therefore require more and more space to deal with refits. In the long term is downtown, center of the city, valuable water front really the place to be putting yet more of these facilities. Plus, not only is the land valuable, but the cost of labor is higher because Auckland is a very expensive city to live in these days.

In the end the decision will be based on which group has the most muscle and pressure they can bring to bear. It will have nothing to do with what is best for the public, tax payers or rate payers.

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11 minutes ago, Gissie said:

It will have nothing to do with what is best for the public, tax payers or rate payers.

Happens much the time in the US too, stadiums are a good example where owners play cities off against one another, for the biggest taxpayer contribution.

The unusual thing here is there being really no competing venue; what argument there might be, is more between the Govt plan vs the Auckland plan - and whose tax pots will be dipped the more deeply into.

In SF a popular SFBOS councilman at the time named Avalon proposed that LE pay the city for the right to hold the event there; some in the media agreed. In the end they basically pulled forward an already-planned $25M improvement to what is now their cruise ship terminal.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Happens much the time in the US too, stadiums are a good example where owners play cities off against one another, for the biggest taxpayer contribution.

The unusual thing here is there being really no competing venue; what argument there might be, is more between the Govt plan vs the Auckland plan - and whose tax pots will be dipped the more deeply into.

In SF a popular SFBOS councilman at the time named Avalon proposed that LE pay the city for the right to hold the event there; some in the media agreed.

It is more a case of who can get the most positive political mileage from the event. I have yet to see a politician or councilor that gives that much of a toss about spending the cash. Unless it gets in the way of the political mileage, in which case they suddenly become more fiscally tight than Scrooge. Until people stop watching of course.

I may be wrong, but I doubt that the good SFBOS councilor was/is always making such sound judgements. If he does then I doubt he would last long before being being shafted for disturbing the trough.

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America's Cup victory sparks Kiwi sailing boom

Sailing clubs are bulging at the seams following Team New Zealand's America's Cup victory. Suzanne McFadden discovers a sport riding a wave following the triumph in Bermuda.

A month-long international sailing camp, currently running at the Squadron – the only course in the world teaching young sailors the art of foiling - was oversubscribed. Thirty sailors from around the world applied, but only 10 could be accepted. “Young sailors really wanted to come down and sail at the home of the America’s Cup; that’s made a massive difference to getting that programme off the ground,” Jury says.

 

http://www.sail-world.com/news/201011/NZ-sailing-clubs-are-bulging-at-the-seams

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Sorry, but if - heaven forbid - it's just three Challengers who'll be staying for just one Austral summer, the HH alternative does look excessive. Let ETNZ set up base somewhere, and have Challengers erect simple tent structures on the cruise ship (fuck them) pier

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45 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Sorry, but if - heaven forbid - it's just three Challengers who'll be staying for just one Austral summer, the HH alternative does look excessive. Let ETNZ set up base somewhere, and have Challengers erect simple tent structures on the cruise ship (fuck them) pier

True but Panuku owns the land, and the potential   improvements and the 75m (!) new extensions to those piers. There’s more at play than AC team considerations. The lawyer guy taking the questions (Marler?) at the Dec 15 meeting where the Auckland City Plan got approved, and the Govt Plan got trashed, was the lead Panuku guy. 

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Mr America's Cup on AC75 cost and Brit's recent hirings

Then Conner moves over to the America's Cup - an event with which he is synonymous - and both gets back onto the previous theme of the AC75 being a very expensive boat - forgetting that a team developing the class rule is the same one which ran and won the last America's Cup on a budget of just $78million - the lowest at the 35th America's Cup in Bermuda, with only Groupama Team France having less.

Next he covers the latest hirings by Land Rover BAR, saying in a round about way that he thinks the Brits had management problems last time. He picks up on the hiring of 34 year Cup veteran and four times America's Cup winner Grant Simmer. Conner says he thinks LandRover BAR have made a smart move in adding to their management team. "He (Ben Ainslie) has the Queen and the Princess on his side, but you've still got to manage 100 guys."

 

 

including podcasts

http://www.sail-world.com/news/201138/Am-Cup--Dennis-Conner-on-the-Cup-latest-and-WOXI

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17 hours ago, Xlot said:

Sorry, but if - heaven forbid - it's just three Challengers who'll be staying for just one Austral summer, the HH alternative does look excessive. Let ETNZ set up base somewhere, and have Challengers erect simple tent structures on the cruise ship (fuck them) pier

I love that thinking, à la "all you need are a couple of buoys and a committee boat".

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Sky Tower architect drawing up America's Cup bases in Auckland

The architect of Auckland's Sky Tower is behind plans for a permanent building and base for Team New Zealand's defence of the 36th America's Cup in 2021.

The Herald can reveal the first details for the America's Cup bases in Auckland, which are contained in a resource consent application lodged with Auckland Council on Monday and publicly notified on January 30.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11977653

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  ^ With due respect to Kiwi sailing prowess, when it comes to base architecture this doesn't hold a candle to Renzo Piano's LR base in Valencia. 

But again, while ETNZ's base is rightly permanent this time, the Challengers bases look overbuilt for the foreseen short stay of about 6 months

 

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34 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ With due respect to Kiwi sailing prowess, when it comes to base architecture this doesn't hold a candle to Renzo Piano's LR base in Valencia. 

But again, while ETNZ's base is rightly permanent this time, the Challengers bases look overbuilt for the foreseen short stay of about 6 months

 

Presumably the other bases could/will be used for other purposes too. From the link,

A 10-year consent is being sought for seven of the bases, but it is proposed that the Team New Zealand base on the extension to Hobson Wharf be a permanent structure.

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

From there,

For various reasons, there is a possibility that there could only be four teams - being those who have already announced they will be entering the 36th America's Cup. That would allow the three Wynyard Point bases to be snipped off the plan allowing a substantial reduction in cost, and avoiding the engineering complexity of 85-100-year-old wharf structures.

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