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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

AC36 Auckland NZ

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14 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Whoa!  Using your stated criteria, what AC teams were "national" over last couple of Cup cycles?

Very, very few, but they mostly put their nation in their team name.  This is done to engender some national pride.  In Team NZ's case it is also in the hope of receiving some tax payer money.

The AC has always been contested between privately owned and operated teams.

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16 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Very, very few, but they mostly put their nation in their team name.  This is done to engender some national pride.  In Team NZ's case it is also in the hope of receiving some tax payer money.

The AC has always been contested between privately owned and operated teams.

How you are funded is irrelevant. Its about the culture of a team, the ethos and the way it conducts itself that dictates whether or not it is a National Team, so how about you get a life idiot! And FYI Dalton has stated he is NOT looking for government funding for the defense.

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45 minutes ago, KiwiJoker said:

Whoa!  Using your stated criteria, what AC teams were "national" over last couple of Cup cycles?

The teams that did so ~by choice~ including for commercial-appeal reasons.

Russell Green who claims to have been a big part of the AC36 Protocol was a guest on a TFE livecast. I asked why sailor crew nationality, instead of Design and Build nationality (per the 1958 Interpretive Resulotion by the NYYC that stood as the only IR, as the definition of Constructed in Country, for many decades) is instead the emphasis in this Protocol. Green’s answer, which I transcribed and posted here in perfect detail, was all about commercialism.

His response was flagrantly Deed-ignorant in his reasoning for how sailor nationality is now emphasized yet ‘Design and Build’ almost completely not. He went on and on about the commercialism, so maximizing that is where his priority clearly lies.

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21 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

The teams that did so ~by choice~ including for commercial-appeal reasons.

Russell Green who claims to have been a big part of the AC36 Protocol was a guest on a TFE livecast. I asked why sailor crew nationality, instead of Design and Build nationality (per the 1958 Interpretive Resulotion by the NYYC that stood as the only IR, as the definition of Constructed in Country, for many decades) is instead the emphasis in this Protocol. Green’s answer, which I transcribed and posted here in perfect detail, was all about commercialism.

His response was flagrantly Deed-ignorant in his reasoning for how sailor nationality is now emphasized yet ‘Design and Build’ almost completely not. He went on and on about the commercialism.

That's a laugh. Russell Green is anything but Deed-ignorant. OTOH he is quite adept at blowing smoke up critic's arses.

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50 minutes ago, sclarke said:

How you are funded is irrelevant. Its about the culture of a team, the ethos and the way it conducts itself that dictates whether or not it is a National Team, so how about you get a life idiot! And FYI Dalton has stated he is NOT looking for government funding for the defense.

You should quit now as every time you post you just dig a deeper and deeper hole.  FFS the ethos and the way it conducts itself dictates whether or not it is a National Team, I never read such bollocks.

You are so wrapped up in your nationalism and misplaced pride that are now spouting absolute trash.

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10 minutes ago, trt131 said:

You should quit now as every time you post you just dig a deeper and deeper hole.  FFS the ethos and the way it conducts itself dictates whether or not it is a National Team, I never read such bollocks.

You are so wrapped up in your nationalism and misplaced pride that are now spouting absolute trash.

Just because you have no sense of National pride, doesn't mean National Teams don't exist. Maybe in your tiny idiotic little mind. You're so wrapped up in your opinionated bullshit dribble that you are now talking absolute crap, just like you always have. Team NZ is, was and always will be a NATIONAL team to all of its supporters, so deal with it and Piss off moron.

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Just because you have no sense of National pride, doesn't mean National Teams don't exist. Maybe in your tiny idiotic little mind. You're so wrapped up in your opinionated bullshit dribble that you are now talking absolute crap, just like you always have. Team NZ is, was and always will be a NATIONAL team to all of its supporters, so deal with it and Piss off moron.

So you have now resorted to name calling.  Just shows your intellect.

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1 minute ago, trt131 said:

So you have now resorted to name calling.  Just shows your intellect.

This proves my point.

A National team in every way.

 

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1 minute ago, trt131 said:

Nope, it proves my point exactly

You're wrong again mate. Its just not your day.

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Clarkey, Team NZ is a New Zealand team, just as the NZ Breakers are in the NBL and the Phoenix are in the A League.  Those teams have imports to bolster the team but they are not the National Team as are say the All Blacks or Black Caps.  Would you still call the All Blacks the National Team if the brought Izzy Folau into the team or the Black Caps used Virat Koli.

You national pride is blinding you.

By the way I could not be bothered look at your vids, too boring.

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44 minutes ago, trt131 said:

Clarkey, Team NZ is a New Zealand team, just as the NZ Breakers are in the NBL and the Phoenix are in the A League.  Those teams have imports to bolster the team but they are not the National Team as are say the All Blacks or Black Caps.  Would you still call the All Blacks the National Team if the brought Izzy Folau into the team or the Black Caps used Virat Koli.

You national pride is blinding you.

By the way I could not be bothered look at your vids, too boring.

Yes, most of the All Blacks are Island imports anyway. Tongans, Samoans, Fijians, but they're still the NZ All Blacks. It doesn't matter where you come from, because when you wear the fern, you represent NZ, its people and its culture. Only Kiwi's can understand it, so don't bother trying to convince anyone ETNZ isn't a National sports team, because to those who matter, they are, to those who don't matter, like you, possibly not, but You don't matter anyway so who cares what you/ they think. And moaning about sucking up to people for government money is irrelevant because they neither had any when they won nor want any to defend. 

Your non-existent sense of National pride is blinding you. They are, have been and always will be a National sports team.

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1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Yes, most of the All Blacks are Island imports anyway. Tongans, Samoans, Fijians, but they're still the NZ All Blacks. It doesn't matter where you come from, because when you wear the fern, you represent NZ, its people and its culture. Only Kiwi's can understand it, so don't bother trying to convince anyone ETNZ isn't a National sports team, because to those who matter, they are, to those who don't matter, like you, possibly not, but You don't matter anyway so who cares what you/ they think. And moaning about sucking up to people for government money is irrelevant because they neither had any when they won nor want any to defend. 

Your non-existent sense of National pride is blinding you. They are, have been and always will be a National sports team.

I think you make a very good point here and really clears up a lot of the nationality conversation . 

If we take this statement and change a few words why would one be true and not the other .

It doesn't matter where you come from , because when you where the US flag you represent USA , its people and its culture .

 

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3 hours ago, sclarke said:

Nope proves my point.

SClarke They are winding you up.

As long as you and I believe in TNZ that is all that matters.

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4 minutes ago, maxmini said:

I think you make a very good point here and really clears up a lot of the nationality conversation . 

If we take this statement and change a few words why would one be true and not the other .

It doesn't matter where you come from , because when you where the US flag you represent USA , its people and its culture .

 

Because they don't represent the flag, they represent the owner who pays their checks. Thats the difference. As I've always said, they don't represent NZ for the money or the paycheck Unlike those who have represented Oracle Team USA. They represent NZ because it means something, which is why All Blacks have turned down much, much more lucrative offers abroad to stay in New Zealand. The heritage, the tradition and the culture of the All Blacks and the jersey is what drives those guys to play for the All Blacks, not the money, like those at Oracle Team USA. Pride in the country, and the team is what drove the guys at ETNZ to stay, even though it meant taking a huge pay cut, instead of taking up offers with other teams. Thats the difference. Hey I would have no problem with it if these guys did what the protocol asked and resided in or were citizens of the country they challenge under. But they don't, they act like mercenaries, or like American sports stars who are traded to and from Franchise teams like cattle.

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4 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Because they don't represent the flag, they represent the owner who pays their checks. Thats the difference. As I've always said, they don't represent NZ for the money or the paycheck Unlike those who have represented Oracle Team USA. They represent NZ because it means something, which is why All Blacks have turned down much, much more lucrative offers abroad to stay in New Zealand. The heritage, the tradition and the culture of the All Blacks and the jersey is what drives those guys to play for the All Blacks, not the money, like those at Oracle Team USA. Pride in the country, and the team is what drove the guys at ETNZ to stay, even though it meant taking a huge pay cut, instead of taking up offers with other teams. Thats the difference. Hey I would have no problem with it if these guys did what the protocol asked and resided in or were citizens of the country they challenge under. But they don't, they act like mercenaries, or like American sports stars who are traded to and from Franchise teams like cattle.

They do represent the flag , they just happen to do it for a better pay check .

You said it best " It doesn't matter where you come from ".

Whats good for one is good for the other. 

 

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2 minutes ago, maxmini said:

They do represent the flag , they just happen to do it for a better pay check .

You said it best " It doesn't matter where you come from ".

Whats good for one is good for the other. 

 

They represent the flag, any flag, any flag in the world, that pays the most money, that is all.

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Just now, sclarke said:

They represent the flag that pays the most money, that is all.

But they do represent which is the point that up until your very clear explanation was once an issue of contention .

" It doesn't matter where you come from "

Thanks again .

 

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4 minutes ago, maxmini said:

But they do represent which is the point that up until your very clear explanation was once an issue of contention .

" It doesn't matter where you come from "

Thanks again .

 

Again, they don't represent the flag, they represent the paycheck.

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Just now, sclarke said:

Again, they don't represent the flag, they represent the paycheck.

like who?

JS has only moved teams without his old team ending once, and that was from Luna Rossa to Oracle, and to be honest, any skipper of a team foreign to their home would make that deal seeing as they had a guaranteed entry to the final. whats more is that he has not raced against an Aussie team in his life in the AC, he has been a part of every existing AUS challenge since he has been a part of the AC (discounting team AUS)

tom Slingsby, Kyle Langford and nearly all of the other Oracle sailors have only represented Oracle or have had similar experiences to JS

i'm not 100% sure what makes you think that

just because they get payed more by Oracle doesn't mean that they're money hungry capitalist pigs

but please, give me an interview or any reasoning behind them only representing their paycheck

its not like all the Aussies in their team could represent their own country

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I think there is some confusion about who represents what.

The individual sailors and designers etc. represent their team .. ETNZ or Land Rover Bar or Prada whatever.

The teams represent their clubs RNZYS etc.

The clubs represent their country New Zealand USA etc. sometimes there will be more than one team representing the same country like the USA and Italy etc.

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^ Exactly

plus the 'nationality' or eligibility requirements for representatives differs from sport to sport - and even from event to event in some cases*

For the AC the Defender and the COR got to set the eligibility requirements this time - just as the did last time, etc etc

*Rugby World Cup 7s vs Olympic Rugby 7s as an example

 

 

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13 hours ago, trt131 said:

Would you still call the All Blacks the National Team if the brought Izzy Folau into the team ..

Mate, you were going well until you mentioned Folau in the same sentence as the All Blacks - he would not make the All Blacks because he's a one-trick pony. We've already got 2 of the best Fullbacks in the world and the best wingers to boot: so where would Folau fit in?

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On 1/19/2018 at 11:45 PM, inebriated said:

ummmm, ok then?

i was just saying that a 4 challenger AC wouldn't be all that successful commercially for NZ and it would be much less exciting then an AC with 6+ challengers

wouldn't you agree?

I'm happy with a one-on-one Challenge for AC36 - we would still get the excitement.

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4 hours ago, Indio said:

Mate, you were going well until you mentioned Folau in the same sentence as the All Blacks - he would not make the All Blacks because he's a one-trick pony. We've already got 2 of the best Fullbacks in the world and the best wingers to boot: so where would Folau fit in?

Gotta agree with you there. Folau is a good Wallaby but does not rank internationally. Just go back to last year when our new boy (Rieko Ioane) ran around him to score in the corner for the 1st(?) Bledisloe 

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