Barnyb

AC36 Auckland NZ

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3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Spending millions of dollars on infrastructure to host the next America's Cup in Auckland will create a "lasting legacy" for New Zealand and place the country as an "innovation hub", Auckland Tourist, Events and Economic Development (ATEED) says.

"I guess from our perspective we look at not just the ability to put together a facility and some infrastructure that's going to be able to support the America's Cup for this occasion, but potentially beyond," ATEED's external relations general manager Steve Armitage told Tony Veitch on Newstalk ZB today.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11928199

Well it didn't take long for the fuckwit bureaucrats to start their "grand designs" of how they can maximize the amount of tax payer money they can spend on edifices to their stupidity and avarice. 

These sports events NEVER deliver the benefits promised and AC 36 will be no different. It won't stop these cunts estimating benefits of more than a Billion so that they can go ahead and spend that money on whatever air headed ideas enter their air headed heads.

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28 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Well it didn't take long for the fuckwit bureaucrats to start their "grand designs" of how they can maximize the amount of tax payer money they can spend on edifices to their stupidity and avarice. 

These sports events NEVER deliver the benefits promised and AC 36 will be no different. It won't stop these cunts estimating benefits of more than a Billion so that they can go ahead and spend that money on whatever air headed ideas enter their air headed heads.

yea I mean the viaduct from last time round is an absolute disaster (well maybe from Wgtn eyes)

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12 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

yea I mean the viaduct from last time round is an absolute disaster (well maybe from Wgtn eyes)

The viaduct was amazing and I was there in person to enjoy it.

But that dude is talking about a much much bigger scope of works than simply setting up a venue for the cup. If you think he ain't then you haven't paid attention to what pants down brown and his ilk did.

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51 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Well it didn't take long for the fuckwit bureaucrats to start their "grand designs" of how they can maximize the amount of tax payer money they can spend on edifices to their stupidity and avarice. 

These sports events NEVER deliver the benefits promised and AC 36 will be no different. It won't stop these cunts estimating benefits of more than a Billion so that they can go ahead and spend that money on whatever air headed ideas enter their air headed heads.

Reading between the lines of that article, yes some parties may argue to use the AC as inspiration to start in on a bigger cruise terminal.

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4 hours ago, jaysper said:

Well it didn't take long for the fuckwit bureaucrats to start their "grand designs" of how they can maximize the amount of tax payer money they can spend on edifices to their stupidity and avarice. 

These sports events NEVER deliver the benefits promised and AC 36 will be no different. It won't stop these cunts estimating benefits of more than a Billion so that they can go ahead and spend that money on whatever air headed ideas enter their air headed heads.

That reminds me, how's that new Wellington Mayor settling in, Jays? I heard he's cancelled Guy Fawkes.

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That reminds me, how's that new Wellington Mayor settling in, Jays? I heard he's cancelled Guy Fawkes.

Yup. All bureaucrats are tarred with the same shithole brush. 

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On 01/10/2017 at 9:29 AM, Barnyb said:

yea I mean the viaduct from last time round is an absolute disaster (well maybe from Wgtn eyes)

Seriously?

For a yachting / general boating fan the viaduct is about as pleasant a place to spend an evening as your going to get, hanging out with your kid in silo park, eating fish and chips, wandering past the classic yachts, followed by a  ride around the basin and over the draw bridge on his balance bike watching the crowds in the bars and restaraunts enjoying a lovely evening as the sun sets.  To top this off for close on 20 years now if you were lucky you got to see Team NZ lifting a boat out or sailing back from a days testing.

Not to mention it was completely awesome when the actual cup was here!

Totally ready for round 3 in Auckland!

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50 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Seriously?

For a yachting / general boating fan the viaduct is about as pleasant a place to spend an evening as your going to get, hanging out with your kid in silo park, eating fish and chips, wandering past the classic yachts, followed by a  ride around the basin and over the draw bridge on his balance bike watching the crowds in the bars and restaraunts enjoying a lovely evening as the sun sets.  To top this off for close on 20 years now if you were lucky you got to see Team NZ lifting a boat out or sailing back from a days testing.

Not to mention it was completely awesome when the actual cup was here!

Totally ready for round 3 in Auckland!

It's called sarcasm!

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12 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

It's called sarcasm!

Fair enough, it was a pre-coffee statement!

I do love the Viaduct though so I get a little heated under the collar at criticism of it! :P

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3 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Fair enough, it was a pre-coffee statement!

I do love the Viaduct though so I get a little heated under the collar at criticism of it! :P

and it is about to get even better!

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45 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Well that should rule out a conventional monohull, looking at whats happening elsewhere you can be pretty certain anything forward thinking is going have some fairly wild appendages.

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Should the financially stretched Auckland Council – with a debt of $7.97 billion as at June 30 this year – be handing over money to promoters of events when they have no tangible method of collecting any financial return from the investment?

Specifically, should it be giving upwards of fifty million dollars to America's Cup infrastructure?

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Specifically, should it be giving upwards of fifty million dollars to America's Cup infrastructure?

 

^ Quite right, it shouldn't 

[meet you when you come back to Cagliari, Rennie - or Porto Cervo? ;) ]

 

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24 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

^ Quite right, it shouldn't 

[meet you when you come back to Cagliari, Rennie - or Porto Cervo? ;) ]

 

I hope the invitation is open to me too? Would love to visit Cagliari, a WS event there could be a great excuse to go.

Am guessing it will be in Palermo instead?

Btw, Mama will have the apartment overlooking Campo de Fiori in Roma again this coming year, for the month of April.

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19 minutes ago, Xlot said:

 

^ Quite right, it shouldn't 

[meet you when you come back to Cagliari, Rennie - or Porto Cervo? ;) ]

 

Haha, the same thought crossed my mind this afternoon. Yep, it's noted. :D

I've been to Cagliari for the TP52 when ETNZ took the title the second time. Nice place for vacation, and not so elitist like Costa Smeralda. Stingray, join us!!!

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6 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

Haha, the same thought crossed my mind this afternoon. Yep, it's noted. :D

I've been to Cagliari for the TP52 when ETNZ took the title the second time. Nice place for vacation, and not so elitist like Costa Smeralda. Stingray, join us!!!

Thanks for the invitation and recommendation. Something to look forward to!

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Should the financially stretched Auckland Council – with a debt of $7.97 billion as at June 30 this year – be handing over money to promoters of events when they have no tangible method of collecting any financial return from the investment?

Specifically, should it be giving upwards of fifty million dollars to America's Cup infrastructure?

Given what it was like last time the cup was here 50 million is peanuts and will almost certainly be gained back in general cup related economic activity.

Heck even though it's not Auckland Council that neccesarily collects it, the collective taxes / rates / rents / leases  etc for the various participants based here is probably going to exceed that on it's own.

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5 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Given what it was like last time the cup was here 50 million is peanuts and will almost certainly be gained back in general cup related economic activity.

Heck even though it's not Auckland Council that neccesarily collects it, the collective taxes / rates / rents / leases  etc for the various participants based here is probably going to exceed that on it's own.

It seems to be an argument for Central govt to pay the bill, especially given Auckland's $8B (! amazing) current debt.

I'm sure there will be a lot of similar discussion in NZ news starting soon enough.

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17 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Thanks for the invitation and recommendation. Something to look forward to!

Goes without saying. But seriously, I'm beginning to see the beauty of the new Prot: a very tangible gun to the head of AKL's Council

 

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It seems to be an argument for Central govt to pay the bill, especially given Auckland's $8B (! amazing) current debt.

I'm sure there will be a lot of similar discussion in NZ news starting soon enough.

The problem is NOT the money (probably $100 Million) to host the event

The problem IS that this council will undoubtedly try to hitch a bunch of other "pet projects" to the AC wagon and we could end up with a $1 Billion PLUS spend all in the name of the AC.

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7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

The problem is NOT the money (probably $100 Million) to host the event

The problem IS that this council will undoubtedly try to hitch a bunch of other "pet projects" to the AC wagon and we could end up with a $1 Billion PLUS spend all in the name of the AC.

What are the estimates on the Halsey extension, or the WQ tank farm removal? Seems $100M should accomplish either one, surely.

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13 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What are the estimates on the Halsey extension, or the WQ tank farm removal? Seems $100M should accomplish either one, surely.

As I said, its not the cost of hosting the even that is the problem.

Its the pet projects they will want to load into it.

For example, they have been desperately trying to build a new train set to connect the CBD to the airport. What better way to justify their out dated socialist agenda than saying that it is needed for the America's Cup? PERFECT!

At least Bermuda seemed to keep the costs reasonably under control, although with how little population Bermuda has they are likely to have a debt hangover from the AC right about now.

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57 minutes ago, jaysper said:

As I said, its not the cost of hosting the even that is the problem.

Its the pet projects they will want to load into it.

For example, they have been desperately trying to build a new train set to connect the CBD to the airport. What better way to justify their out dated socialist agenda than saying that it is needed for the America's Cup? PERFECT!

At least Bermuda seemed to keep the costs reasonably under control, although with how little population Bermuda has they are likely to have a debt hangover from the AC right about now.

To be fair this city does desperately need a train to the airport!  There is nothing outdated about modern electric trains.

Burning dead dinosaurs to move a two ton SUV containing one person on the other hand... now that really is outdated technology.

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Just now, Boybland said:

To be fair this city does desperately need a train to the airport!  There is nothing outdated about modern electric trains.

Burning dead dinosaurs to move a two ton SUV containing one person on the other hand... now that really is outdated technology.

As opposed to self driving vehicles, which can act as small buses with precisely tailored routes to cheaply transport 4 or 6 people from their precise location to their precise destination?

THAT is the future of transport IMO. Removing the need for a driver will make such a service as cheap as current bus/train services.

So why invest in a train set now that will be obsolete within 10 - 15 years?

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

As opposed to self driving vehicles, which can act as small buses with precisely tailored routes to cheaply transport 4 or 6 people from their precise location to their precise destination?

THAT is the future of transport IMO. Removing the need for a driver will make such a service as cheap as current bus/train services.

So why invest in a train set now that will be obsolete within 10 - 15 years?

Simply put, no autonomous individual transport system is ever going to move the same volume of traffic along a fixed route.

At the extreme end of the spectrum some of the larger bilevel passenger carriages will carry ~150 seated passengers and ~250 standing passengers, thats 400 people in one carriage!

If you want to move a lot of people between to very common destinations you really are going to be hard pressed to do it more efficiently than rail and given the number of tourists who arrive at the airport who's first destination is the CBD it pretty much fits the bill perfectly.

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55 minutes ago, Boybland said:

Simply put, no autonomous individual transport system is ever going to move the same volume of traffic along a fixed route.

At the extreme end of the spectrum some of the larger bilevel passenger carriages will carry ~150 seated passengers and ~250 standing passengers, thats 400 people in one carriage!

If you want to move a lot of people between to very common destinations you really are going to be hard pressed to do it more efficiently than rail and given the number of tourists who arrive at the airport who's first destination is the CBD it pretty much fits the bill perfectly.

How many people actually have common origins and destinations? 

I was in Jaffvegas last month and needed to get to/from the airport. Trouble is that I wasn't going to cbd. Even if I'd started at the top of Queen st, getting to the britomart would have sucked arse.

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2 hours ago, Boybland said:

Burning dead dinosaurs to move a two ton SUV containing one person on the other hand... now that really is outdated technology.

1

You're talking about every suburban road in the mornings during the school terms, as mums drop off the little ones at kindies, primary schools, intermediate schools, and colleges. Amazing how traffic thins out during the school holidays.

A train to the airport would be a complete waste: the problems are not moving air travellers quickly to their hotels in the city. Auckland's traffic problems are in the suburbs and motorways jam-packed by too many cars for the city's population. All major cities in the world have clearly identified/designated industrial areas making it easy to plan public transport in and out. Every suburb in Auckland has their own little industrial area making it next to impossible to plan public transport to cater for them all - hence the focus on cars.

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23 minutes ago, jaysper said:

How many people actually have common origins and destinations? 

I was in Jaffvegas last month and needed to get to/from the airport. Trouble is that I wasn't going to cbd. Even if I'd started at the top of Queen st, getting to the britomart would have sucked arse.

You might not have been going to the CBD but a really massive number of people are everyday of all corners of Auckland, the more Auckland builds towards using more and more cars the less efficient everything about it gets.

Every city overseas I have ever visited that was easy to get around in had trains, they just work period and the sooner we start to build things around instead of willy nilly all over the place and trying to fit them in later the better.

The reasons trains don't work as well as they could in Auckland is.

One: The system is effectively limited to close to the current usage level (22 million od journeys a year, still imagine if they were all on the road as well).  This is primarily driven by Britomart being an end station, the rail loop should effectively triple this capacity by allowing trains out the other side of the station and allowing lines to be paired up on either side.

Two: The system doesn't go to some very major destinations in Auckland, the most obvious being anywhere on the shore and the airport.

But even in it's pretty subpar state it's still moving something like 20 million car journeys off the roads every year it was only something like 2 million journeys less than 10 years ago.

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Oct 4, 2017

The 7 times Volvo Ocean Race competitor and first time America’s Cup winner talks about the obstacles faced by Emirates Team New Zealand on the road to Bermuda, and spends more than an hour with host Alan Block going over the plans for the next America’s Cup in Auckland, NZ. They talk boat choice, venue choice, and much, much more in this long-overdue chat between to bald guys with gravelly voices.

Show Notes:

00:00-10:27 Intro
11:27 Who wrote the protocol and explanation of its genesis
13:17 Off-water battles in the Bermuda Cup buildup, and obstacles thrown up by Coutts & friends
14:47 Why should challengers trust you to be more fair as organizer than the America’s Cup Event Authority were to ETNZ?
15:34 “The most ridiculous stacking of the deck in modern times came from Alinghi"
15:57 How much has Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron been involved in the protocol process?
16:57 About the Cup’s national NZ road show coming up
18:07 Why is it OK to take the Cup to a boat show but not a car show?
18:57 How the RNZYS will help lessen the load for Dalton and the TNZ staff.
20:57 What information did you base your decision to go to a monohull? What's the real motivation?
25:57 The density of breeze in Auckland and the frailty of the Cup cats. Dalts: "16 knots here would pull an AC50 to pieces"
26:41 On NZ’s huge tech advantage in Bermuda. “For the life of me I can't figure out how all the other teams were so far behind us"
26:57 How keeping the AC50 would almost definitely guarantee another TNZ win
28:07 How many concepts are being considered for the actual boat? Are ETNZ consulting with other potential challengers besides Luna Rossa?
30:03 Does the design rule schedule mean TNZ and Luna Rossa get an unreasonable head start over other challengers?
30:57 Why can't you say whether or not the boat will lift out of the water?
31:57 Would you lose Glenn and Burling and the other speed junkie tech heads if you go to a heavier, more conventional type of boat?
32:47 Ashby's huge beard and his two months on walkabout
34:07 Dalts' motorcycle crash in the Isle of Man TT
36:02 Bicycle grinders and the openness of the AC36 design rule. "We have no intention of banning bicycles"
38:52 Box rules vs open Rules, and the element in the next AC of "one-design supplied parts”. Don’t want to stop innovation in areas that can help the average yacht racer, eventually.
41:30 Clean's disappointment with the residency requirement, and Dalts explanation of what he thinks people are misunderstanding about the new nationality/residency rule.
43:24 Finding the balance between a rule that would exclude many countries and one that will help reduce the mercenary culture in the sport, and how to get teams to look to their own countrymen first for crew.
48:07 Dalts: "They commit to a team and a country rather than a worldwide circus where they're guns for hire to an owner who doesn't realize he's getting ripped off"
48:57 Surrogate boats, regatta schedules, and high entry fees for the pre-regattas. "This will allow us to create a financial pool so we don't have to be beholden to a city for funds.” Dalton says ACWS events were driven by venue fees in bad places or at bad times for sailing. “Make it great for the yachties, and the rest is easy."
52:27 With the residency requirements and lack of venue certainty right now, how does ETNZ ensure teams spend enough time in Auckland to justify the money the venue will have to spend to prepare for the Cup?
53:42 Dalts' sample schedule for Challengers.
57:12 Is the Italian Option really just Dalts holding Auckland's feet to the fire? What's with the natural disaster thing?
59:05 Two boat testing for ETNZ and no one else? How about a defender challenge?
60:58 There are ways around two-boat bans, but it might not help anyone. Dalts: "SoftBank was Oracles B boat, but they couldn't get it up to speed fast enough"
61:42 Fan questions begin: Soft sails or hard sails? Hybrids?
62:51 Limiting electronics? More PlayStation type controls? Dalts analogy for ac35: "Oracle were still a mobile phone and we were a supercomputer"
64:27 Sailhandling, stored power and the team's philosophical problem with combustion engines on AC boats.
65:37 What happened with the AC34 and 35 Facebook pages and videos? Were they stolen?
67:06 IF you can get the media back, will you publish all the video from those Cups for free to the world?
67:57 who owns the Liveline graphics system and do you intend to have them back in the mix for the worldwide audience?
69:02 Free to air distribution for AC36!
74:37 Omega time, Swiss Timing, and how am entirely new graphics system might be going into the AC46 broadcast
76:27 Entry period closes before venue announced. How is that ok? (Answer, it might not be).
77:57 What are you looking to get from Auckland and the NZ government to make the event possible?
80:01 How much will a basic, unembarassing campaign cost? "People will still spend 160 million" to try to win
81:38 Biggest sponsorship mistake made by most campaigns
82:57 Happy to see Louis Vuitton go, or will you miss them?
84:07 Burlington vs Tuke, Mark Turner’s shock departure from the Volvo Ocean Race, and Dalts’ picks for the 2017 VOR
86:42 Uniting the major races, World Sailing, and where the sport is headed at the pinnacle.
87:42 Exactly what they're releasing in November and how Dalts will judge whether it was the kind of technological success he hopes for.
88:47 What's by far the most read site in New Zealand (guess?), AC Anarchist Stingray gets a shoutout, and out.


Read more at http://www.sailinganarchy.libsyn.com/#ruqXrv41zt6M4ImV.99

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Now we know what the basis of the nationality rule is from Dalton himself. It is to force the teams to make a choice. Do you want to buy internationals and spend enormous amounts of money to house them for 380 days, or do you look in your own backyard as the Kiwi's did last time, and render the nationality rule void for your own team? While it may not fit with the current culture of "hired mercenaries" in the Americas Cup, it is an attempt to force teams into employing people who are already nationals, and employing people from your own country, and changing the culture of hired mercenaries in the AC, which can only be a good thing for the future.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

“For the life of me I can't figure out how all the other teams were so far behind us"

Quote of the day/week/cup!

 

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13 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Should the financially stretched Auckland Council – with a debt of $7.97 billion as at June 30 this year – be handing over money to promoters of events when they have no tangible method of collecting any financial return from the investment?

Specifically, should it be giving upwards of fifty million dollars to America's Cup infrastructure?

If they want to improve waterfront access and enjoyment of the harbour for their ratepayers they might. Worked pretty well last time. What makes you think it's not such a good idea this time? And, as GD has pointed out to the socialist plonkers, there always, Italy. 

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1 hour ago, Indio said:

Thanks Clean - well done.

+1 Excellent work, Alan. Well done.

Stinger gets a special mention from GD! All the ETNZ boys are tuned in SA. God help us!

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yeah good one Alan. Passed the time at work yesterday nicely having that to listen to. Come on back down here mate - the water is warming up and there's a shitload of stuff for you to cover....

And yes, SA is often on a lot of screens at the base. :) 

 

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Yes, Rodney Hide sure is a scumbag.

Since it was him who setup the management structure to have a whole heap of separate Corporatised bodies each with high-paid management structures & not actually responsible to the elected Council who are legally prevented from influencing the actions of CCOs.

 

Or perhaps you mean Dick Quax?

A man whose irrational hatred for public transport coined an eponymous ironic word http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11447071

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On 06/10/2017 at 11:49 AM, ~Stingray~ said:

Has the money to hire a whole lot of his ex-MP buddies from the  NZ Labour party...

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Gladwell:

America's Cup - Auckland's chances of hosting 36th Match get a boost

Sir Stephen Tindall, Emirates Team New Zealand Board Chairman, and one of New Zealand's business leaders, and Founder of The Warehouse Group has announced that he is taking a year’s leave of absence from the business.

'I’m going to work hard on “making sure we have it in AUCKLAND”. 

'Very simple.'

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Americas-Cup---Aucklands-chances-of-hosting-36th-Match-get-a-boost/158030

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If it is  such a slam dunk that Auckland will come through and host, why has Tindall decided he needs to dedicate so much time to helping make it happen?

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7 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

If it is  such a slam dunk that Auckland will come through and host, why has Tindall decided he needs to dedicate so much time to helping make it happen?

To try fight whatever-all opposition there is, as you suggest.

This is going to be a big fight in NZ news in the coming months as various parties angle for their own interests. I honestly hope it ends well but it'll be very entertaining to watch this all unfold.

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11 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

If it is  such a slam dunk that Auckland will come through and host, why has Tindall decided he needs to dedicate so much time to helping make it happen?

Probably because he knows he can get it done more smoothly than anyone else.  Is it not obvious?

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12 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Probably because he knows he can get it done more smoothly than anyone else.  Is it not obvious?

He is chairman of the board at ETNZ, so therefore a logical choice for that reason too. But ACS was referring to not the person so much as all that time.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Probably because he knows he can get it done more smoothly than anyone else.  Is it not obvious?

More smoothly? Who cares how smooth it is. It's about getting it done. I expect exactly the opposite of smooth. It looks as if it's going to be a street fight. The "obvious" thing is that Tindall recognises how at risk everything is and he wants to make sure it happens. He wouldn't be doing it if he felt it was going to happen come what may, as suggested by some on here.

As the article suggests, it is great news because having a person of Tindall's stature throwing himself almost full time into making it happen has got to significantly improve the chances of Auckland hosting the AC. 

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16 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

More smoothly? Who cares how smooth it is. It's about getting it done. I expect exactly the opposite of smooth. It looks as if it's going to be a street fight. The "obvious" thing is that Tindall recognises how at risk everything is and he wants to make sure it happens. He wouldn't be doing it if he felt it was going to happen come what may, as suggested by some on here.

As the article suggests, it is great news because having a person of Tindall's stature throwing himself almost full time into making it happen has got to significantly improve the chances of Auckland hosting the AC. 

GD playfully chided Clean for not having fully understood the Protocol, to which Clean responded that it was '72 pages' and playfully accused GD back of having intentionally scheduled the interview before he'd had time to read it. So.. it was already clear that Clean has less grasp of this subject than is possible..

That said, the podcast was mostly excellent - the questions were good but mostly it was excellent by GD. It's worth even a re-listen, starting once GD is on: http://sailinganarchy.com/tag/grant-dalton/

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13 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

GD playfully chided Clean for not having fully understood the Protocol, to which Clean responded that it was '72 pages' and playfully accused GD back of having intentionally scheduled the interview before he'd had time to read it. So.. it was already clear that Clean has less grasp of this subject than is possible..

That said, the podcast was mostly excellent - the questions were good but mostly it was excellent by GD. It's worth even a re-listen, starting once GD is on: http://sailinganarchy.com/tag/grant-dalton/

Did I hear GD mention stingray at the end!?

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13 hours ago, Robsi524 said:

Did I hear GD mention stingray at the end!?

Yes, it was pretty funny. Something like 'I walk down the hallway and have to tell people to stop wasting time reading Sailing Anarchy - Stingray and friends - and to make up their own minds instead.' Lol! 

It was a bit of a dig at 'Stingray & friends' but nicely done, and intended probably as a compliment / toss-out to Clean and to the SAAC community generally. All good.

GD and I had an email exchange some time ago, it was brief but equally clever by him.

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12 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yes, it was pretty funny. Something like 'I walk down the hallway and have to tell people to stop wasting time reading Sailing Anarchy - Stingray and friends - and to make up their own minds instead.' Lol! 

It was a bit of a dig at 'Stingray & friends' but nicely done, and intended probably as a compliment / toss-out to Clean and to the SAAC community generally. All good.

Actually, it was more of a joke ..

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37 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I walk down the hallway and have to tell people to stop wasting time reading Sailing Anarchy - Stingray and friends - and to make up their own minds instead.

 

Which means that some members of the team get some of their infos, that they don't get directly by the team, on the forum

What was the protocol point he told that Clean was not up to date ?

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25 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

What was the protocol point he told that Clean was not up to date?

The main point was around the Nationality Rules.

It was a revelation to Clean that all true citizens (as opposed to non-citizen sailors who therefore have to comply with the 380 days in-country residency rule) are exempt from everything. True citizens can spend as much time as they want in NZ, training for Olympic campaigns, racing in TP52 or RC44 circuits, etc. It was in response to Clean's expressed disappointment that, in his naive view, the nat rules were not strong enough.

Interestingly, GD also remarked that after the 'mercurial' move Alinghi made after 2003, something needed to be done in his opinion because it (I think he said) 'Hurts team principals, especially if you are in NZ' - basically admitting that the rule is intended to help him even if it hurts others. 

Defenders get some leeway under MC but again, attributing this nat rule to the DoG is disingenuous imo and I suspect that he let slip the real reason right there; self interest, and in a sense far stricter than what Clean had realized until he got the explanation. Hiring 'the best' instead of citizens comes at a very big cost - sailing-time, $ expenses, and personal/family/life commitment-wise. 

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Thanks SR, I was sailing most day today...

That means that foreign crew will have difficulty training elsewhere in winter or participate to major sailing events.

But I do not find faire is that, and the reason is that TNZ protect their foreign designers, and I suspect they represent more that 50% of the team:

The above requirements shall not apply to designers or to any other team members who do not race as Crew on an AC75 Class yacht.

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51 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The main point was around the Nationality Rules.

It was a revelation to Clean that all true citizens (as opposed to non-citizen sailors who therefore have to comply with the 380 days in-country residency rule) are exempt from everything. True citizens can spend as much time as they want in NZ, training for Olympic campaigns, racing in TP52 or RC44 circuits, etc. It was in response to Clean's expressed disappointment that, in his naive view, the nat rules were not strong enough.

Interestingly, GD also remarked that after the 'mercurial' move Alinghi made after 2003, something needed to be done in his opinion because it (I think he said) 'Hurts team principals, especially if you are in NZ' - basically admitting that the rule is intended to help him even if it hurts others. 

Defenders get some leeway under MC but again, attributing this nat rule to the DoG is disingenuous imo and I suspect that he let slip the real reason right there; self interest, and in a sense far stricter than what Clean had realized until he got the explanation. Hiring 'the best' instead of citizens comes at a very big cost - sailing-time, $ expenses, and personal/family/life commitment-wise. 

Or, a big team with a B behind it cannot come along and just cherry pick crew from a smaller less funded team. Which, that it was ETNZ, is just an example of what can happen to any low-budget team that puts together a group of really good crew that may not have been on the radar before.

Also remember that LE picked JS from Prada after '07 after they had picked him from Syd Fisher's team. So, it can be a common belief of both the defender and CoR this time.

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7 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yes, it was pretty funny. Something like 'I walk down the hallway and have to tell people to stop wasting time reading Sailing Anarchy - Stingray and friends - and to make up their own minds instead.' Lol! 

It was a bit of a dig at 'Stingray & friends' but nicely done, and intended probably as a compliment / toss-out to a hungry-for-compliments Clean and to the SAAC community generally. All good.

GD and I had an email exchange some time ago, it was brief but equally clever by him.

probly just giving kudos to the chief muppet

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^ muppet/LE sycophant/backdoor TeamUSA talking-point publicist/damage limitation schmuck/Kiwi-phobic volunteer 24/7 spin-boy/now teamless troll

 

 

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13 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

More smoothly? Who cares how smooth it is.

Anyone who has ever worked with politicians and public funding agencies?

 

I'm guessing it's been a while since you sat down with a city government to negotiate?

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Now there is an election result in NZ, and they have a new government made up primarily of a Labour-Green block, how will this effect the political decisions to get things done in Auckland. Surely it cannot be as positive as a National win.

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33 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

Now there is an election result in NZ, and they have a new government made up primarily of a Labour-Green block, how will this effect the political decisions to get things done in Auckland. Surely it cannot be as positive as a National win.

It was a Labour lead government that supported TNZ and had a contract which committed the National government to support ETNZ for AC34. The National government considerably reduced support to ETNZ for AC35.  I would expect the new government to fully support ETNZ. 

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3 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

It was a Labour lead government that supported TNZ and had a contract which committed the National government to support ETNZ for AC34. The National government considerably reduced support to ETNZ for AC35.  I would expect the new government to fully support ETNZ. 

I understand that, Terry, but there is the issue of Auckland and the belief that to get it across the line will take a push from central government. There is an interesting situation that the AC will need the deepening of the harbour and the development of the waterfront and potentially reclaimed land. I wonder how the greens will respond to that? I am not trying to be negative, just trying to understand the political landscape and how it will effect the AC.

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13 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I understand that, Terry, but there is the issue of Auckland and the belief that to get it across the line will take a push from central government. There is an interesting situation that the AC will need the deepening of the harbour and the development of the waterfront and potentially reclaimed land. I wonder how the greens will respond to that? I am not trying to be negative, just trying to understand the political landscape and how it will effect the AC.

It was a Labour government that paid for the development of the Viaduct so there is no reason to expect them to fail with the next venue.

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there will be no deepening of the harbour....harmony of the seas came in here 4 months ago...the races will be held in the gulf, which is the "ocean", not in a fish bowl

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20 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I understand that, Terry, but there is the issue of Auckland and the belief that to get it across the line will take a push from central government. There is an interesting situation that the AC will need the deepening of the harbour and the development of the waterfront and potentially reclaimed land. I wonder how the greens will respond to that? I am not trying to be negative, just trying to understand the political landscape and how it will effect the AC.

to help you understand download openCpn and check out the lay of the ocean. Navionics as wll may help you to understand.

the harbour is dredged to 20m out to the "ocean"

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8 minutes ago, Terry Hollis said:

It was a Labour government that paid for the development of the Viaduct so there is no reason to expect them to fail with the next venue.

That is incorrect National we're in power after the '95 win until '99. So Labour did not build it.

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

Now there is an election result in NZ, and they have a new government made up primarily of a Labour-Green block, how will this effect the political decisions to get things done in Auckland. Surely it cannot be as positive as a National win.

Great as far as I'm concerned. 

3 years in power and Nz First will disappear and maybe the greens too. Sweet!

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Labour will put $$$ that Bill English would not. (or enable Auckland Council to raise/spend the required)

Its the best outcome.

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26 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

That is incorrect National we're in power after the '95 win until '99. So Labour did not build it.

Correct. Also the labour politician who is supportive of the cup is Trevor Mallard who is likely to be speaker, so wont have any pet projects to push.

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53 minutes ago, NZL4EVER said:

That is incorrect National we're in power after the '95 win until '99. So Labour did not build it.

Sorry about that .. you are right .. Labour came to government in Dec 1,999 so they were there for the defense.

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On 19/10/2017 at 9:10 PM, jaysper said:

Great as far as I'm concerned. 

3 years in power and Nz First will disappear and maybe the greens too. Sweet!

NZF certainly will be history. Winston choosing Labour was a slap in the face to those that voted NZF. 

Pre-Jacindarella, NZF and Greens had pulled substantial voter support from Labour. With the base-level disaffected National voters that have historically been NZF core supporters, they were polling in the teens somewhere, depending on the particular poll.

With Communist Cindies rise, the Labour vote deserted NZF back to Labour leaving them on their 7% - predominantly National leaning voters... who will not be best pleased.

Winston won't be there in three years. I doubt they'll win a seat or get 5% support. 

I'm sure Winston would want AC36 in Whangarei anyway, so fuck him and the horse he rode in on.  8)

 

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at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11935133

Special legislation is likely to be pushed through to ensure Auckland can host the America's Cup.

Documents obtained by the Herald on Sundayunder the Official Information Act reveal the Auckland Council raised concerns with the previous government over the condensed timeline to deliver infrastructure for the event.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Isn’t there AC venue happiness to be had from Mayor Goff and PM Jacinda both being Labor?

It can only help...

Interestingly Stephen Tindall is also well connected with the Labour Party - ironically they wanted to him to run for Auckland mayor, and when he declined, Goff was next...

So this continues to bode very well...

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7 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

It can only help...

Interestingly Stephen Tindall is also well connected with the Labour Party - ironically they wanted to him to run for Auckland mayor, and when he declined, Goff was next...

So this continues to bode very well...

Did not know that - cool. Agreed.

Think I also saw somewhere that Jacinda used to work for Goff. Tight group.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Did not know that - cool. Agreed.

Ahh yes and as I pondered some time ago, Tindal's/ETNZ's view on Ports of Auckland is clear, and the AC is ultimately political leverage now...which I personally think is great...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11407997

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/67454039/Famous-Aucklanders-protest-Port-extension

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/327669/auckland-council-told-to-hurry-up-on-port's-future

Game on..

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