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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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A bold boat. Verdier is pushing the envelope of offshore speed. Seems to be an intelligently-designed, all-purpose inshore/offshore boat. 

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11 hours ago, southerncross said:

Couldn't find a bloody thread...

 

That's cool.  The other thread is about G-Class development.... since this is now reality, it deserves its own thread.  I look forward just as much to G17 going against Spindrift as I do seeing it go against Macif/Idec/Sodebo.  Can't wait to see videos of it sailing.  I imagine it went out today?

By the way, was it surprising they put the boat in the water before putting the foils on, or will they pull it with the mast on to put the foils on?

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OK, so I am a hack and they clearly are not. So I must be missing something...

* Not all the boards installed??

* Mucho headstay sag??

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They're sailing now with just the port uptip ama foil, the main daggerboard foil w flap and three rudder t-foils with flaps.

 

Excellent interview with Guillaume Verdier where he describes how the ama foils work like the boards on TNZ in 34:     (click for sound)

 

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Gitana Foiling!   (note that the port UptiP ama foil tip is blurred out)--First 100'+ sailing foiler!!! Congratulations to Guillaume Verdier and the whole Gitana Team on this awesome accomplishment!!!

picture by Yann Riou/Gitana S. A.

o6kzmq.jpg

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PROGRAMME

5 NOVEMBER 2017
Start of the Transat Jacques Vabre (LE HAVRE SALVADOR DE BAHIA), double-handed race.

4 NOVEMBER 2018
Route du Rhum (ST MALO POINTE-À-PITRE), singlehanded race.

AUTUMN WINTER 2019
Round the world race STARTING IN BREST, singlehanded race.

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Gitana Foiling!

Look at the port uptip foil in the circle-its blurred.Now look at the stb foil just at the surface--its a big foil!

picture by YannRiou:

 

Gitana Foiling! - Copy.jpg

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I see that.  Deliberate or optical? Just wondering if there are any other pix that show it better?  News Release?

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Gtrans regarding secrets:

 

Quote

 

On board, guests are not allowed to take pictures or make videos. There are secrets that you do not want to disclose to the competition?
 
There are not many boats like ours. In the monocoque Imoca, each team also has its little secrets and it is even more the case on these trimarans. Guillaume Verdier is an architect who has the wind in its sails with innovative ideas. We have the earliest on these ideas. It should not be forgotten that there are other trimarans going out (note: Banque Populaire d'Armel Le Cléac'h and Sodebo of Thomas Coville) and we have technological innovations on our boat, so we want to Keep them warm as long as possible. Now, the true result, we will see it on the water. It is the one who wins the races that is right.

 

 

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Great stuff, GG-thanks!!  Now that I've seen more: simply breathtaking!!!

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Found the vid on youtube(from catsailingnews) : 

 

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8 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

Found the vid on youtube(from catsailingnews) : 

 

do they mention you in any of their pressers ? they need to give credit where credit is due !

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Damn, I keep watching that vid over and over.  That is one smooth, beautiful ride.  Can't help but think that it is less taxing on the boat and crew when up on foils and slicing through the chop/swells, but it will also be interesting to see how it does downwind with the rolling Southern Ocean.... is that as well suited to foiling as reaching?  I can't wait to see how it does in its first race against Macif, Sodebo, & Idec Sport.  I just wish Spindrift was able to play with those boats in all of the same races.

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10 minutes ago, GauchoGreg said:

Damn, I keep watching that vid over and over.  That is one smooth, beautiful ride.  Can't help but think that it is less taxing on the boat and crew when up on foils and slicing through the chop/swells, but it will also be interesting to see how it does downwind with the rolling Southern Ocean.... is that as well suited to foiling as reaching?  I can't wait to see how it does in its first race against Macif, Sodebo, & Idec Sport.  I just wish Spindrift was able to play with those boats in all of the same races.

I was thinking the same thing.  Although a short clip and relatively flat water, this boat looks incredibly stable.  Hard to describe, but it looks like giant leap forward in offshore foiling, as though this is what OS foiling is supposed to look like and will look like.  

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Don't forget that Gitana also has English language content. Almost all articles on their site are translated (switch to EN in the top right corner) and there are subtitled versions of the videos. 

 

 

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Anyone wondering why Bank Populaire decided to change their plans and keep their new boat back in the shop for another 6+ months (I believe it was going to be more in-kind with Macif, at least at first, rather than specifically a full-flyer like Gitana)?  Talk about it being obsolete before it even left the shop (sorry if I'm wrong on that).  I hope their overall design anticipated it eventually being a full-flying boat, too, as Gitana was very open about it being a flying boat from the beginning.

Anyway, back in one of his RTW races like 10 years ago, I think it was Stan Honey who was musing about how one day in the future boats would be flying smoothly over the water going around the world.... watching that video really shows what he was dreaming of can now be reality.

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22 minutes ago, Moonduster said:

There is exactly nothing interesting about this boat's ability to foil in flat water.

The real interest will be seeing how it flies across the South Atlantic & Southern Ocean. Guillaume has created a beast!

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10 hours ago, Moonduster said:

There is exactly nothing interesting about this boat's ability to foil in flat water.

No one doubted it would foil, it is more excitement about how damned pedestrian it looks doing it.  It reminds me very much of Spindrift2 looking like it just manhandles the ocean.... in this case Gitana 17 looks like it does things so smoothly and effortlessly but also with a robust quality (I know, easy to say on only 1m seas). 

It just looks like it will be a quantum leap (at least in some conditions).  I can see it just obliterating the competition in trade winds sailing, the South Atlantic, and North Atlantic except for in severe conditions..... at least until the competition starts implementing similar foiling ability (if possible).  Admittedly simple casual visual observation makes it look more capable/robust than Macif.... something I quite possibly could be very wrong about, but that boat seems more based on refinement and nimbleness, where Gitana seems to have  more robust nature to go along with the obvious potential when foiling.

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Interesting in that vid seeing how the speed induced AWA is backing the jib luff. They need to crank that in much further - or re-cut it to flatten it, assuming VMG is that important (which it probably isn't at those speeds). But I'm guessing they already know that, right?

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I think the jib is perfectly trimmed to my untrained eye...

I think it is the angle of the sun and the shadow on the leading edge of the jib that is making a tricky optic illusion.

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Dunno about the jib but it looks in some shots like the main is leaning against the lazyjacks. Distinct rolled roast look. ;)

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On 8/26/2017 at 8:00 AM, southerncross said:

I see that.  Deliberate or optical? Just wondering if there are any other pix that show it better?  News Release?

The foils are relatively short, the tips are very fine and pointed so hard to see in low resolution video shot from a distance. Also, the boat is 23m wide (64% wider than an AC 50 at 14m) so the foils just look short in comparison. They appear to be about 1/9th of the beam, so around 2.5m long.

In the first image below from the Gitana web site, the port foil can be seen just breaking the surface, showing about where the tip is. Also in the aerial shot, you can see the starboard foil doesn't protrude much inboard when fully retracted (and the port foil is again breaking the surface).  

 

 

G17 foils 1 hl.jpg

G17 foils.jpg

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14 hours ago, RobG said:

The foils are relatively short, the tips are very fine and pointed so hard to see in low resolution video shot from a distance. Also, the boat is 23m wide (64% wider than an AC 50 at 14m) so the foils just look short in comparison. They appear to be about 1/9th of the beam, so around 2.5m long.

Where did you get the idea AC50 was 14 m wide?!?

In reality they were 8.47 m wide, making Gitana17 over 171 % wider. Perhaps you mixed it with AC72, since those were indeed 14 m wide?

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16 hours ago, RobG said:

The foils are relatively short, the tips are very fine and pointed so hard to see in low resolution video shot from a distance. Also, the boat is 23m wide (64% wider than an AC 50 at 14m) so the foils just look short in comparison. They appear to be about 1/9th of the beam, so around 2.5m long.

In the first image below from the Gitana web site, the port foil can be seen just breaking the surface, showing about where the tip is. Also in the aerial shot, you can see the starboard foil doesn't protrude much inboard when fully retracted (and the port foil is again breaking the surface).  

 

 

 

 

In post 11 above in the great interview Guillaume did, he says the ama foils are the largest of any previous boat. From around 4:12 in to past 4:17 in he explains how the foils work on the same principle as the TNZ AC 72 man foils (uptip foils according to Pete Melvin) and how large they are.......

The real key to this boat is the daggerboard foil with a flap that allows precise adjustment of lift and downforce and how it works with the lee ama foil and rudder t-foils(also with flaps) resulting in rock solid stability. The guy has done a masterful job with this boat using a foil configuration that is the most innovative ever done on a full size tri and in a happy coincidence for me proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the viability of the original Fire Arrow configuration.

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19 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

In post 11 above in the great interview Guillaume did, he says the ama foils are the largest of any previous boat. From around 4:12 in to past 4:17 in he explains how the foils work on the same principle as the TNZ AC 72 man foils (uptip foils according to Pete Melvin) and how large they are.......

The real key to this boat is the daggerboard foil with a flap that allows precise adjustment of lift and downforce and how it works with the lee ama foil and rudder t-foils(also with flaps) resulting in rock solid stability. The guy has done a masterful job with this boat using a foil configuration that is the most innovative ever done. on a full size tri and in a happy coincidence for me proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the viability of the original Fire Arrow configuration.

FIFY

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I'm not going to quote him. 

 

But fuck me, Doug you are not only fucking delusional, your stalking of Guillaume Verdier and his latest projects is bordering on the downright disturbing. 

 

Get some therapy, this behaviour is becoming scarily obsessive! 

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Love the Gitana 17 design, great too see professionals design and build, such awesome sailing machines.  

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:lol:  You have to recognize (not sure if appreciate or respect are appropriate terms) the persistence of the Dougster.  I would like to see all the footage of the Fire Arrow kicking ass in the World RC Series. 

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From Foilers!(Fred Monsonnec) first pictures of Gitana ama foil. Look at the tip very closely in both pictures !

https://foils.wordpress.com/

gitana-17-foil-babord-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg

 

 


 

gitana-17-vue-arric3a8re-photo-2-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg

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48 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

From Foilers!(Fred Monsonnec) first pictures of Gitana ama foil. Look at the tip very closely in both pictures !

https://foils.wordpress.com/

gitana-17-foil-babord-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg

 

 


 

gitana-17-vue-arric3a8re-photo-2-f-monsonnec-04-04-17.jpg

when do the royalties start flowing in so you can actually have a real boat of your own ?

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9 hours ago, NotSoFast said:

Where did you get the idea AC50 was 14 m wide?!?

In reality they were 8.47 m wide, making Gitana17 over 171 % wider. Perhaps you mixed it with AC72, since those were indeed 14 m wide?

Oops, I can't believe I did that…:wacko:

Makes the point even better that they look short because the platform is massively (nearly 3x) wider than the AC boats.

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The Fire Arrow uses the same basic foil configuration as Gitana and Maserati. The new ama foil the Verdier says works like an UptiP foil is surprising in some respects. The UptiP ama foil on Fire Arrow has had a "droop tip" since 2013 but is entirely different than what Guillaume has done and probably for a different reason, but seeing the two of them is pretty cool, at least to me:

 

MPX ama + ama = cat --foil comparison 011.JPG

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7 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

The UptiP ama foil on Fire Arrow has had a "droop tip" since 2013

:huh::wacko::blink:

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..... and Doug if all you said was that "that is pretty cool, at least to me" rather than claiming some sort of "ownership"/"predesign" then everyone would be ok with that I suspect.

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11 hours ago, eastern motors said:

Are all the hydraulics human powered?

With autopilot and shore team routing, the best grinder might beat the best sailor RTW.

I could be very wrong, but I believe that this boat does not rely upon hydraulics anywhere near as much as the AC boats, but rather relies more on the flaps on the foils (not sure how those are manipulated).  How much the foils need gross adjustments outside of the flaps, not sure, and that would likely have to be done with hydraulics.  Anyone have a better idea on that?

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Pollute yourself off to your own asinine and many posts DoUUg, leave the unpolluted threads started by and for others not wanting to be polluted by your excrement.

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3 hours ago, Groucho Marx said:

Pollute yourself off to your own asinine and many posts DoUUg, leave the unpolluted threads started by and for others not wanting to be polluted by your excrement.

He's pretty disgusting hey, I love how he's claiming it's his design the "LiMpTiP" when he copied TNZ's 2nd gen AC72 boards to get that shape. He even states in another post "inspired by TNZ boards" yet now claims he was first in 2013 (even though TNZ used those shape boards in 2012).

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And the fact that at no point does his design have a negative angle. I am struggling to see the similarities. 

 

Anyway moving on this looks like one hell of a boat, guessing they get to use a fully closed loop controller to enable steady flight? Wonder how much power this consumes? is it passive or active? 

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New vid-thanks to nav:

 

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Be careful what you ask for !!!   and more to the point where it comes from !!

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

Be careful what you ask for !!!   and more to the point where it comes from !!

+1 I feel sorry for the guy...

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15 hours ago, Santi said:

Does anyone have any information/research on foils?

Urgently needed for academic stuff!

Thanks

http://library.sailyachtresearch.org/tech-resources/library-advanced-search/libraryAdvancedSearch?layout=result_search&text_search=&keyword=&title=&author=&publication=33&location=&start_year=&end_year=2017&id_library=&type=&ordering=&limit=5

 

Many foiling cat related papers here.

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Great picture of Gitana 17's main foil:

from Voiles et Voiliers-pix by B. Stichelbaut/Gitana SA--

Gitana 17 on the cover of Voiles et Voiliers - Copy.png

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Awesome new footage in that vid.  That thing is a beast.  It will be REALLY fun to see it up against competition..... too bad Macif and the new Banque Pop won't be in the race.

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12 hours ago, GauchoGreg said:

Awesome new footage in that vid.  That thing is a beast.  It will be REALLY fun to see it up against competition..... too bad Macif and the new Banque Pop won't be in the race.

 Indeed, 3 new boats around the same time and same size is really quite exceptional, hoping they agree on what they allow or not regarding foil automatic trimming.

And Macif might not be truly in "flying configuration" now, but the evolution is already planned I think.

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"Forty knots isn't normal but we're getting used to it".  Quote of the year.

"What was a stumbling block or a sound barrier a few years ago on conventional boats simply becomes normal on this boat.  It effectively becomes the starting point so it allows you to think and dream about what the potential will be in a few years time."  S. Josse.

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5 hours ago, remenich said:

BPIX has splashed. With a deck sweeper!

bpixds.jpg

 

I wonder what the kind of recess in the cockpit "dodger" is for ? Being able to sit on it to look at the sunset ? :) 

(I mean the hole that is eating part of one window)

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3 hours ago, yl75 said:

I wonder what the kind of recess in the cockpit "dodger" is for

I'm stumped.  Important enough to cut away the window.  Too uncomfortable to sit in.  I assume there's another one on the other side. Is that where the lasers go?

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Most probably to pass some lines as there is a hole in it, you can see it in some part of below video :

 

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7 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Most probably to pass some lines as there is a hole in it

Maybe to rotate the mast?

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20 hours ago, southerncross said:

I'm stumped.  Important enough to cut away the window.  Too uncomfortable to sit in.  I assume there's another one on the other side. Is that where the lasers go?

I’m guessing it’s just a step to get on top of the dodger for access to the boom. I’m probably wrong though just because it’d be an odd choice of location from an aero perspective. 

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Hints:
There are holes in them.
Gitana thread, Gitana has similar holes in a similar position, Macif too.
Not about the mast, those lines are in the lower holes.
Look from above:
38041877871_4468111e6f_b.jpg
 

Jib sheets have to reach the winch somehow. ;)

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