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Pac Cup 2018

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Who's coming? Saw that the 125 'Can't Touch This' is registered but are any other 125's planning on making the trip..?

'Blue' the Riptide 41 is making an appearance as well. 

RP55 vs PAC 52?

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Velvet Hammer to self destruct one minute earlier!

BTW. Best boat name in a long time. 

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In!  (But can't say nothing about dropping out early....because that's what we had to do in '16 thanks to 2 broken ribs and a suspected ruptured spleen, on the first night.)  Gonna be a great summer!  I wonder: Last time, we were one of only two boats that carried the Watt & Sea hydrogenerator.  Will anyone else discover these amazing devices?  On the Transpac this summer, we used all of 1.5 gallons of diesel during the (embarrassingly long) 14 days it took to get to Honolulu.  Besides instruments, we ran our refrigerator the entire time.  Yes!  Ice-cold beer every day.....and now you see what our priorities were....and are.    :DIMG_3603.thumb.JPG.ee73750339722c2e77a07850d95de42e.JPG

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Anyone with experience doing PacCup on a synergy 1000 four man crewed?

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14 hours ago, dawson said:

Anyone with experience doing PacCup on a synergy 1000 four man crewed?

Do it, I'll come! :)

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The express fleet is having a good resurgence lately on the Bay. 8 OD boats will be the biggest one design fleet I think the race has ever had. I know there have been bigger sc50 fleets, but they are hardly OD boats at this point most have new rigs/ keels and rudders. 

Its going to be fun watching the triple handed e-27 performance against the dh boats. 

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Would it count as a "OD class" given the boats would likely  carry more than 2 fractionals #1 & #3? Maybe they'll agree upon some rules at Nationals this weekend. 

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6 hours ago, sousou said:

Would it count as a "OD class" given the boats would likely  carry more than 2 fractionals #1 & #3? Maybe they'll agree upon some rules at Nationals this weekend. 

I think they are all going to have different sails-- that's just apart of the race. Also thes will all weight differently so they will have have slight ratting differences. I would not be surprised to see at least one boat race with a MH set up. And it would not surprise me to see a boat with an A5 on the class pole. 

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23 hours ago, Ian Rogers said:

I think they are all going to have different sails-- that's just apart of the race. Also thes will all weight differently so they will have have slight ratting differences. I would not be surprised to see at least one boat race with a MH set up. And it would not surprise me to see a boat with an A5 on the class pole. 

Are you talking E-27's or E-37's.  

 

8 E-37's.  Looks like I'll be back again then.  Tho' it's gonna be hard to beat the '16 race. That was pretty epic.

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18 hours ago, Hitchhiker said:

Are you talking E-27's or E-37's.  

 

8 E-37's.  Looks like I'll be back again then.  Tho' it's gonna be hard to beat the '16 race. That was pretty epic.

E-27's 

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Anyone Sent there boat back to CA with pasha? I don't think I can do PacCup plus sail the boat up. It's an E-37

any suggestions would be nice, thanks!

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Dawson - in 2014 it was about $9,500 for a J105 on Matson on our own trailer.  I think rates were a little better in '16.  That doesn't include the haulout fees of ~$1,500 and the trucking fee to move it across the street ~$500.  

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12 hours ago, dawson said:

Anyone Sent there boat back to CA with pasha? I don't think I can do PacCup plus sail the boat up. It's an E-37

any suggestions would be nice, thanks!

I shipped my 32' back on Pasha after the 2012 race. At that time they only went to San Diego. They were a fair bit cheaper than Matson. I used Matson for the 2002 race and found Pasha customer service to be much better.

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Cool, thanks guys! So probably $12 ish for my boat

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Any speculation on class breaks?

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Yes. You’ll be with the j/125, m32, and farr 400. For whatever reason there is always a void in the ratings between about 0 and 50 for Pac Cup. The J/120 is even more isolated. 

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2 hours ago, Roleur said:

Yes. You’ll be with the j/125, m32, and farr 400. For whatever reason there is always a void in the ratings between about 0 and 50 for Pac Cup. The J/120 is even more isolated. 

Ugly class. Farr 400 isn't going though. 

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Rumour has it that Sweet Okole is getting a new carbon rig and masthead kites.

Anyone know the goss?

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I sold my express 37, buying a Hobie 33 again. I'm wondering about battery charging for the crossing something simple and removable.

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1 hour ago, dawson said:

I sold my express 37, buying a Hobie 33 again. I'm wondering about battery charging for the crossing something simple and removable.

Solar. Two identical systems so if one shits the bed you still have some power. 

Thats what we did on Mas! When the port charge controller died, we just cut back our power consumption and kept going.  Made it with a few amps to spare. 

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If you don't mind my asking, what size battery and panel and controller did you guys use.

by the way, they say anything over 24' is excess boat...

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23 hours ago, dawson said:

I sold my express 37, buying a Hobie 33 again. I'm wondering about battery charging for the crossing something simple and removable.

Sooo.  No One Eyed Jack for Pac cup?

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17 hours ago, dawson said:

If you don't mind my asking, what size battery and panel and controller did you guys use.

by the way, they say anything over 24' is excess boat...

We had two 60 amp hour lithium batteries. And two 23w all-in-one panels. If we went again we would have two 75w panels.  We did not have enough panel, but we made it work. 

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I am honored to be able to serve as the Media Director for the Pacific Cup this year!

At previous regattas that i've helped cover, the SA forums were a valuable place to get user, racer and viewer feed back to help guide the coverage in the right direction. After all, this is YOUR race!

I've got some pretty cool things planned: drone at the starts, sizzle reel videos for start days and arrivals, almost-daily recap videos with voice over, written articles, social media, final race recap short movie and more. 

During the race, I plan to do periodic (probably every couple of days) analysis and recap videos utilizing the tracker data and communications form the fleet. If any competitors want to have their boats featured nicely in those videos, if you could drop a few video files you have (Go Pro, etc) of your boat hauling ass and looking hot, then I can then splice those in there as B-role during our almost-daily recap videos. "File footage", if you will. If you give me a cheap 2GB (no bigger please) USB thumb drive at the start with a few video files on it, i'll return it to you in Kaneohe. If I get any sweet video or drone footage of your boat in SF or at the start, i'll drop those files on there and give you the USB drive back in Kaneohe. I think handing off USB drives is easier than dealing with dozens of Drop box accounts, sending big files over the web, etc.

An official race communication regarding media stuff will go out in a few weeks, things have just been formally finalized on our end. I hope to help set a new standard in working with the competitors and giving the people what they want to see. Please feel free to PM me on this site and i'll give you my email address if need. 

Stoked to see all of you at the start and at the finish. 

aloha

 

 

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So, does anybody know why Pyewacket is the only sled or maxi racing ORR?

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Westerly is planning to race ORR has completed all measurements but US sailing has failed to return a phone call now for a month... I know they are busy with Newport Bermuda but it is getting nuts... 

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First start is 10 days out.  I know it's early yet, but that never stopped me before:

 

 

Mon Jul9.jpg

Wed Jul11.jpg

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We're seeing some tropical depression activity already.  TD "SEVEN-E" is forecast to become a hurricane.  I hope this won't be a replay of 2016!:

two_pac_0d0.png?302316

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac

 

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The image below is our July 11 start:

Note the activity at the bottom of the pic, in particular to the lower right.I think it could be very similar to 2016 in regard to tropical disturbances.  

We got in just a day ahead of Darby in '16!

July11.jpg

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11 hours ago, valis said:

We're seeing some tropical depression activity already.  TD "SEVEN-E" is forecast to become a hurricane.  I hope this won't be a replay of 2016!:

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac

 

Tropical Depression "SEVEN-E" is now Tropical Storm "Fabio", forecast to become a hurricane with sustained winds >110 mph, and then back down to a storm by Friday.  It shouldn't hit the SHTP or Pac Cup racers, but the remnants can still scramble things up.

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1 hour ago, valis said:

Tropical Storm "Fabio", forecast to become a hurricane...shouldn't hit the SHTP or Pac Cup racers, but the remnants can still scramble things up.

Definitely.  As we all know, predicting hurricane tracks, etc. has a good deal of uncertainty in it.

A good reminder: here’s a quick snapshot of (some) historical hurricane tracks from NOAA (which the Trump Administration is thankfully still funding and hasn’t sold off to Accuweather, Inc...yet  :-) )

From: https://coast.noaa.gov/hurricanes/

09DE9B24-C7F0-411D-A9DB-FCEAF2D0DEDF.png

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What happened to Freja, the Aerodyne 43?  Y'all did the qualifier at Swiftsure and now, registered for Northern Century...

Note Charlie on the Figaro III, changed from fully crewed to DH, so instead of starting Friday they start Monday.  I still think the J/120, starting Thursday, will be last to Hawaii.  

For the overall, I think it is between the Erkelens and one of the 7 Express 27's.  Surely, one of the 7 will go the right way and its a great platform.  I'd go with Motorcycle Irene.  

5 70 footers is cool.  Will be really interesting to see how the Riptide 41, Blue, goes in its first ocean crossing.  Stacked with talent and Riptides have had some good runs over the years.  

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3 hours ago, Roleur said:

What happened to Freja, the Aerodyne 43?  Y'all did the qualifier at Swiftsure and now, registered for Northern Century...

Note Charlie on the Figaro III, changed from fully crewed to DH, so instead of starting Friday they start Monday.  I still think the J/120, starting Thursday, will be last to Hawaii.  

For the overall, I think it is between the Erkelens and one of the 7 Express 27's.  Surely, one of the 7 will go the right way and its a great platform.  I'd go with Motorcycle Irene.  

5 70 footers is cool.  Will be really interesting to see how the Riptide 41, Blue, goes in its first ocean crossing.  Stacked with talent and Riptides have had some good runs over the years.  

Healthy issue, nothing to be overly concerned about but not really an option  to go offshore...we’re gutted.

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Monday and Wednesday look pretty even right now, with the nod going to Monday I think. Overall about 36 hours slower than '16 for us. But, still a lot of instability in the upper level.

 

July9.jpg

July11.jpg

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Seriously?  The Figaro III rates faster than Pyewacket?!  It would actually be fun to see the Figaro III go head to head with the Melges 32 and Columbia 32.  I don't see the FIII being much faster than the Melges.  Bummer the FIII starts on Monday and the others start on Thursday, so we'll never know.  

They have the FIII rating 88 seconds/mile faster than the Melges 32.  That is just plain silly.

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28 minutes ago, Roleur said:

Seriously?  The Figaro III rates faster than Pyewacket?!  It would actually be fun to see the Figaro III go head to head with the Melges 32 and Columbia 32.  I don't see the FIII being much faster than the Melges.  Bummer the FIII starts on Monday and the others start on Thursday, so we'll never know.  

They have the FIII rating 88 seconds/mile faster than the Melges 32.  That is just plain silly.

But, .........It Foils!!!!

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Monday still better than Wednesday, though not by much.

July9.jpg

July11.jpg

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is the M32 a great boat to take ? sounds really wet.

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1 hour ago, bigrpowr said:

is the M32 a great boat to take ? sounds really wet.

For mere mortals? No.

For the guys on it? The owner is the same guy who sailed an 11 Meter OD down the coast of california.....

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On 7/2/2018 at 7:19 AM, Hitchhiker said:

Ratings and class breaks are out.  Some interesting changes from 2016 for repeat offenders.

https://pacificcup.org/18/entries

Rufus has done the PacCup before on the boat. He did in in 2016. He races the boat pretty extensively offshore/coastal in California.

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As far as rollcall - I'm doing Navigation and Bow on Free (Swan 461).

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Some changes in divisions B and C. 

https://pacificcup.org/18/entrylist

Some weird things going on in the ratings changes relative to 2016.  Hobie 33 stays the same.  Archambault 35 gets 10 s/m. Melges gets a massive 82 s/m. Express 37 gets 11 pts

Pyewacket gets 53 s/m  Wolfpack gets 6s/m.

I don't think may of these boats were changed since 2016, unless sail areas went down.  I know ours on the E37 didn't change. Was there some change in the downwind formula from the last go around? Anyone know? 

 

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Start days are pretty even, but the race is not going to be point it at the Islands like the last go around. Just hoping it's not like 2000.  That was brutal!

July9.jpg

July11.jpg

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The Vic-Maui race sure has had some challenges working through those low-pressure systems and dead air.  It looks like the next few days will be better once that low moves east underneath them.

542820108_VM7-4.jpg.4d44d9d312a5274b2139aef54c719b8c.jpg

  SHTP had a dead-air battle at their start too, and it looks like the stragglers will be hit by the weakened trades from the Fabio remnants.1821722382_SHTP7-4.jpg.966755a40280b8ccfc80170f3a293a82.jpg

And I'm also watching a friend on a delivery from Japan to Seattle.  They're about halfway now.

Does anyone have an idea if the conditions are right for more hurricanes than usual?

And good luck to to the Pac Cup racers!

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Hurricane-forming conditions are setting up per usual but there seems to be a quiet spell ahead for the start week of Pac Cup; posible light air in the middle, the last remnants of Fabio.  But seems like it's shaping up for a decent ride......

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Very disparate solutions between GFS (red) and Euro (yellow) models. It would be nice to see these in more agreement! 

paccupcomps.JPG

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I wish they would keep the tracker live the entire race.  I hate the 6 hour delay.  To me, having the tracker live makes for a much richer spectator experience, and can only drive more people to the web site and with far more more frequency, pulling them into the race.   I guess they impose this so that cheaters with money to burn can't see the competition live, but when you think about this, that  really is a ridiculous position to take.  Hey- someone might put their engine in gear in light air....so why not make the boats  remove  propellers?  What sort of cheating-ass MF would purposely break this rule, with his entire crew in on it?  Exactly: it is highly unlikely to happen.  Corinthian yachtsmen are expected to abide by the rules and be honorable- that should be the default assumption.  The tracker delay seems to say: "Oh, someone will cheat if we give them the scope to do so."  Really?  I prefer to give the competitors the benefit of the doubt.

As for the weather....ho hum.  Our weather guru will give us his best analysis; the routing models will change every 6 hours hours; but once the gun goes off, the dice are rolled, and then- come what may!

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Things are starting to look a little better, not much, but a little!

paccupcomps.JPG

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Wait...  What happened to the J/125?  Can't Touch This.

Always interesting to see the entry list attrition as the start nears.  

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What sort of cheating-ass MF would purposely break this rule, with his entire crew in on it?  Exactly: it is highly unlikely to happen.  Corinthian yachtsmen are expected to abide by the rules and be honorable- that should be the default assumption. 

Highly likely, happens frequently.   The fleet is a mix of Corinthian and Pros.   I'm in favor of 2x fleet position updates as in the past so competitors sail their own race and make their own bed.

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What happened to the J/125?

They pulled the plug a few weeks back.

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5 hours ago, Rude Dog said:

I wish they would keep the tracker live the entire race.  I hate the 6 hour delay.  To me, having the tracker live makes for a much richer spectator experience, and can only drive more people to the web site and with far more more frequency, pulling them into the race.   I guess they impose this so that cheaters with money to burn can't see the competition live, but when you think about this, that  really is a ridiculous position to take.  Hey- someone might put their engine in gear in light air....so why not make the boats  remove  propellers?  What sort of cheating-ass MF would purposely break this rule, with his entire crew in on it?  Exactly: it is highly unlikely to happen.  Corinthian yachtsmen are expected to abide by the rules and be honorable- that should be the default assumption.  The tracker delay seems to say: "Oh, someone will cheat if we give them the scope to do so."  Really?  I prefer to give the competitors the benefit of the doubt.

 

First place overall was dinged a 24 hour penalty for checking the tracker just a few years ago. The delay may have been put in after that.  Not sure if it was in place before.  

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Well the Euro and GFS are disagreeing more and more, still too far out, but fun to take a look at.   

1887366755_7-6-20181-28-28PM.thumb.jpg.7e7055caff28a1f02ca0abb6daeb791d.jpg

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Wow, that sucks!

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4 hours ago, Tom O'Keefe said:

Wow, that sucks!

Looks like the 2015 transpac....

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10 hours ago, Roleur said:

First place overall was dinged a 24 hour penalty for checking the tracker just a few years ago. The delay may have been put in after that.  Not sure if it was in place before.  

The tracker has always had a delay of some sort or another, with lots of debate about it.  The penalty was for accessing the "secret" unrelated tracking data -- a crew member figured out how to access that, based on info from other races.  They probably didn't realize this was against  the rules since they posted about it on their blog. I doubt that the info helped them, but the penalty had to be applied anyway.

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That is a massive change for the Melges and now rates just barely faster than the Columbia 32.   Looks like a smaller ISP and spin. provided a +6sec/m.  It will have a strong shot at the overall with a more manageable setup.

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What's the delta between the Melges and the Lumbo?  54 sec/hr?

This is starting to look an awful lot like 2000!  Really hoping it shapes up better.

 

paccupcomps.JPG

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With all these different start dates ... 

 

Why not just let boats choose their start date using weather routing? Start time flexibility is a key part of ocean record attempts.

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22 minutes ago, carcrash said:

With all these different start dates ... 

 

Why not just let boats choose their start date using weather routing? Start time flexibility is a key part of ocean record attempts.

That would be an interesting idea! Hand out class assignment and have a start every day at noon. Let each boat pick when they start. The current reason for  staggering the starts is so the big boats the slow boat have more overlap in weather.

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, IMR said:

That would be an interesting idea! Hand out class assignment and have a start every day at noon. Let each boat pick when they start. The current reason for  staggering the starts is so the big boats the slow boat have more overlap in weather.

 

 

 

 

Are you still going this year?

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6 hours ago, carcrash said:

With all these different start dates ... 

 

Why not just let boats choose their start date using weather routing? Start time flexibility is a key part of ocean record attempts.

Having your own "fleet" of similar-rated boats makes for some good competition too (even though that meant big/slow VALIS was racing against some small/fast boats, with quite different upwind/downwind characteristics).  This is a strategic race, and grouping similar-speed boats means we sail in the same weather, at least for a while.

The current start schedule also makes it more likely that all the boats are there for the parties and awards ceremony.  If the fast boats start early then they may choose to go home before the events (it happens, and while it's a free country it does somewhat diminish the ceremony.)  Also, if a slow boat chooses to start late for a faster ET, they do run a greater risk of missing the cut-off time (and the party).

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14 hours ago, Roleur said:

Are you still going this year?

Nope — when it all fell apart, my wife put a friends wedding on the calendar before I could find a new ride. So I am heading to Chicago for a Mac race. 

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What? It looks like a typical Transpac route with a Coastal Cup thrown in.

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The Monday starts are away, and it looks like Green Buffalo is in the lead. Go Jim!

The Pac Cup tracker currently has very little delay (certainly not six hours), but perhaps they will be adding the delay once the boats get offshore.  Many of the boats have AIS transponders, and we can see them for a while on marinetraffic.com.  We usually lose the AIS signal once they get beyond the Farallons.

https://pacificcup.org/tracking.html

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-122.648/centery:37.777/zoom:12

 

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16 minutes ago, valis said:

The Pac Cup tracker currently has very little delay (certainly not six hours)

And now the tracker shows the boats milling around before the start.  I guess the delay is now in force.

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Delaying the tracker makes zero sense.

AIS provides data to make tactical decisions related to nearby boats.

Weather provides data to make strategic decisions related to distant boats.

That data is currently available and allowed.

The tracker only lets people track, not make decisions. Tactics are not meaningful over 200 or 500 mile separation! Yet the tracker gets all of us who are not racing (this time) involved in the race.

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3 hours ago, valis said:

The Monday starts are away, and it looks like Green Buffalo is in the lead. Go Jim!

The Pac Cup tracker currently has very little delay (certainly not six hours), but perhaps they will be adding the delay once the boats get offshore.  Many of the boats have AIS transponders, and we can see them for a while on marinetraffic.com.  We usually lose the AIS signal once they get beyond the Farallons.

https://pacificcup.org/tracking.html

https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/home/centerx:-122.648/centery:37.777/zoom:12

 

I count 15 with AIS.  That's good that so many are starting to transpond.  15 out of 31.  

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holy smokes ! alot of sub 30 footers !

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10 minutes ago, bigrpowr said:

holy smokes ! alot of sub 30 footers !

10 I believe.  

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16 minutes ago, Roleur said:

10 I believe.  

you sad you aren't there ?

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1 hour ago, bigrpowr said:

you sad you aren't there ?

Not sad, but certainly thinking about the next time. 

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7 hours ago, carcrash said:

Delaying the tracker makes zero sense.

AIS provides data to make tactical decisions related to nearby boats.

Weather provides data to make strategic decisions related to distant boats.

That data is currently available and allowed.

The tracker only lets people track, not make decisions. Tactics are not meaningful over 200 or 500 mile separation! Yet the tracker gets all of us who are not racing (this time) involved in the race.

Boats are not required to transmit AIS, and some may choose to not transmit for tactical reasons.  These boats would not appreciate a zero-transponder delay, particularly if other boats might be inappropriately monitoring.  When I was on the Pac Cup board, we heard form both sides of this debate (and there were some strong and well-reasoned positions), and the tracker delay was the compromise we reached.

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AIS is good for 7 miles - hell, you can see that far.  only good for knowing if a given boat is going faster/slower and higher/lower - not good for offshore navigation.

Tracker delay makes absolute sense. Else, you know exactly what the weather is at a any position on the course - sure helps the guys behind make decisions that the guys ahead had to make on seamanship alone. Depends weather you want to play at seamanship (including weather management, fleet management, etc) or simply a live video game where everyone would follow each other.

 

 

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I decided to send the following to one of the Pac Cup board members- unsolicited commentary:

I am certain the subject topic has been the source of long and protracted debate, discussion, study- ad nauseum.  I have previously not given much thought to the topic until the recently-finish Volvo Ocean Race.
In short, I believe the decision to impose any delay on the tracker, is a mistake.  I realize there are always going to be people who live by the motto "If you ain't cheatin', you ain't competin' "  but in a Corinthian activity like yacht racing, the benefit of the doubt should be given to the participants.
What I realized during the final leg of the VOR is that a live tracker creates an incredibly richer spectator experience that drives significantly more traffic to the website; it makes the race far more compelling to all spectators, and induces the non-sailors to become hooked on the race at least, and who knows?  The desire to try sailing?  It's way better for the race, for fans of the race, and most importantly it'll generate many new followers; a live tracker is better for the sport.  Just make the penalty for cheating on this matter, the "death penalty": disqualification
That should keep all would-be jerks and jackasses, well at bay.
xxxxx- the sport of sailing is in general contraction.  We need to do everything possible to attract converts.  A live tracker is a powerful and unique tool to help accomplish this.  It isn't too late to correct this mistake.  I urge you to re-open the dialogue immediately with your fellow event leaders, and make the tracker live for the entire race.  The roar of approval you hear will absolutely overwhelm you.
I can't guarantee xxxxxx will do well, but I can guarantee you will be making an exceedingly popular move.
 
I expect no one will listen but I think I speak for the majority.

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I'm currently sitting on the Transpac Board. At the end of each race there is a navigators debrief. One of the major topics was the tracker delay. By far the majority opinion was to leave the tracker delay as is.

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Super curious to see how Wolfpack's route pays out.  They've been going fast, but sailing a ton of extra miles.  Reminds me of our course in 2016 when we wished we had a double reefed main.  At the moment WP is behind the Antrim 27 (doing really well given the conditions) and even with the lead Express 27, which is not where they want to be at this stage.  

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Looks like a few more dove a bit south, and Irene is starting to pull away from the other Expresses.

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36 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Looks like a few more dove a bit south, and Irene is starting to pull away from the other Expresses.

and billy/mel worked back north yesterday. looks like lester on the 'saved from it's own death' moore being most southern is showing first in class at the moment

 

pulling for alex, elishia, nick and skylar to get out clean and fast today...go the p&d!

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9 minutes ago, aA said:

and billy/mel worked back north yesterday. looks like lester on the 'saved from it's own death' moore being most southern is showing first in class at the moment

 

pulling for alex, elishia, nick and skylar to get out clean and fast today...go the p&d!

Have you checked the weather? Damn pressure ridge setting up - they may have a light southerly......

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1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

Have you checked the weather? Damn pressure ridge setting up - they may have a light southerly......

yup, trying some optimism for the friends

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3 minutes ago, aA said:

yup, trying some optimism for the friends

I'm with ya there, maybe a magic puff....

Being stuck 60 miles off the coast for 36 hours is no bueno. Been there, done that.

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7 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm with ya there, maybe a magic puff....

Being stuck 60 miles off the coast for 36 hours is no bueno. Been there, done that.

What you speak from experience? :)

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1 hour ago, BWR said:

What you speak from experience? :)

unfortunately

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The Figaroa guys are looking pretty good. It's going to be tough for everyone starting today and tomorrow.

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