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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
hoppy

Club/offshore racers in Aus up to $80k AUD

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Toying with the idea of reducing my "investment" in yachting and selling my Jeanneau and getting a much cheaper yacht that is designed for racing and will be much more competitive than my Jeanneau (ok, not too hard). I would race it on the bay and eventually some cat 3 races like the L2H and any ORCV cat 3 races.

I'd like a Sydney 38 but I think if I was to sell my Jeanneau I should look for cheaper boats so I'm thinking a max of $80k AUD. That $80k perhaps should be for a boat with near new main/genoa/jib or a lower upfront price for a boat with older sails.

I'm not sure what make/model yachts to look out for that would perhaps suit my requirements. Any suggestions what to keep an eye out for?

This modified Elliot 10.5 looks interesting

http://www.yoti.com.au/listing/elliott-10-5-high-anxiety

And so to this Mumm 36

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-4788388/1995-MUMM-36/?cr=0&psq=((((Service%3D[boatsales]%26BoatType%3D[Sail])%26Make%3D[MUMM])%26Service%3D[Boatsales])%26(((SiloType%3D[Dealer used boats]|SiloType%3D[Dealer new boats])|SiloType%3D[Private used boats])|SiloType%3D[Demo and near new boats]))&pso=0&pss=Premium

 

 

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Go the Mumm36, But might want to try and get it a bit cheaper and find a swept back spreader rig for it, Cookson built boat alot better than the Carroll built ones

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3 minutes ago, TheActualDave said:

They did a race version. The NSX. 

Funny how the NSX36 is faster than the NSX38.

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I saw the thread but could not find a Sydney 41 on boatsales. I'm rather go a little smaller than my current boat partly because I'm already pushing the maximum for my pen size at RMYS and new sails will be cheaper (thus less issues with the admiral) 

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1 hour ago, Last Post said:

Funny how the NSX36 is faster than the NSX38.

So is the NSX36 a good option? 

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-4617558/1994-NORTHSHORE-NSX-36/?cr=0&psq=((((Service%3D[boatsales]%26BoatType%3D[Sail])%26Make%3D[NORTHSHORE])%26Service%3D[Boatsales])%26(((SiloType%3D[Dealer used boats]|SiloType%3D[Dealer new boats])|SiloType%3D[Private used boats])|SiloType%3D[Demo and near new boats]))&pso=0&pss=Premium

Obviously $85k list is not $85k sale price

Do the older design boats benefit in having a bowsprit and asymmetrics like they did with the Elliot 10.5? or does it come at a handicap cost that can negate the benefits?

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6 minutes ago, hoppy said:

So is the NSX36 a good option? 

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-4617558/1994-NORTHSHORE-NSX-36/?cr=0&psq=((((Service%3D[boatsales]%26BoatType%3D[Sail])%26Make%3D[NORTHSHORE])%26Service%3D[Boatsales])%26(((SiloType%3D[Dealer used boats]|SiloType%3D[Dealer new boats])|SiloType%3D[Private used boats])|SiloType%3D[Demo and near new boats]))&pso=0&pss=Premium

Obviously $85k list is not $85k sale price

Do the older design boats benefit in having a bowsprit and asymmetrics like they did with the Elliot 10.5? or does it come at a handicap cost that can negate the benefits?

NSX36 is a good option if you are a competitive sailor with a good helmsman and crew. Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

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3 hours ago, Rumpig said:

Go the Mumm36, But might want to try and get it a bit cheaper and find a swept back spreader rig for it, Cookson built boat alot better than the Carroll built ones

Second that, sweet boats and the Cookson build quality was excellent.  Original tin rig a bit of a pain, it's true so yes, a swept spreader carbon replacement would be a good option.  

The Mumm 36 won a design competition to be the Admirals Cup 36 foot one design back in the early 90s, the NSX 36 was Scott Jutson's entry in the same competition IIRC.  Ed Psaltis ran one for a while and hated it, but there are a few sailing around in Sydney doing OK, including Ed's old boat.

As to A-sails, while NSX 36 was not originally designed for one it may be a good investment.  The IRC rule has long rated heavy boats with A-sails pretty favourably, though less so now than it once did.  The Mumm 36 is relatively light and as long as you have enough crew weight on to generate stability I'd imagine they do OK with A-sails.

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It's all food for thought. Sounds line the A-sails can be skipped. Although perhaps a code zero could be good in light winds on a longer race, especially for a fractional rigger? 

I would love a Sun Fast 3200 but they are maybe still more expensive than my SO40 :(

 

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Buy the Young 11 Outside Edge for sale in Qld. Pete has looked after it really well. Might be an old design, but downwind in pressure you will embarrass plenty of bigger budget programs. Sorry, don't know how to paste the link on an iPad, but it comes up in a google search "Young 11 for sale".

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1 hour ago, Rawhide said:

I would go Syd 36 sports in that size price bracket.

Ha I thought you would have at least mentioned the Bull 9000 best bang for buck I reckon ........

But the Mum36 is an epic boat ...

Edited - Then again a Melges 32 for sensory overload :D although maybe a little more than you want to spend & there is that offshore CAT2 compliance issue

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1 hour ago, Doug2 said:

1D35 turbo. Would make a great Melbourne Super 11 boat

AMS =0.962

http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/one-design-35-turbo/201275

Interesting boat. Sydney sister I recall at RPA was nothing flash. Road Freight to Melbs from Busselton including de-rig and pack up then re-rig, launch and re-commission is going to add a shitload to costs so you would need to pay not much more than $65 k for it to meet your budget landed and sailing over here. Depends how much he is prepared to sell it for.

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5 hours ago, hoppy said:

It's all food for thought. Sounds line the A-sails can be skipped. Although perhaps a code zero could be good in light winds on a longer race, especially for a fractional rigger? 

I would love a Sun Fast 3200 but they are maybe still more expensive than my SO40 :(

 

Hoppy, Come and see me on the Jeanneau stand at the Sydney Boat Show August 3, 4 or 5 (it runs til Aug 7 but I head home after Sat 5) and I will show you over the new, upgraded model Sunfast 3200. We can talk about your SO40 too. PM me for contact details.

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1 hour ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Hoppy, Come and see me on the Jeanneau stand at the Sydney Boat Show August 3, 4 or 5 (it runs til Aug 7 but I head home after Sat 5) and I will show you over the new, upgraded model Sunfast 3200. We can talk about your SO40 too. PM me for contact details.

Do you have a special price on the SF3200 at $80k at the show? ;)

Won't be making the show as the missus and 6mth old daughter get back from a month in Europe.

I take it you work for 38 South? My SO40 is on the same dock as the 39i you have listed and I can see it's mast in one photo :)

Still just toying with the idea at the moment

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1 hour ago, Next Level said:

Speaking of Mum 36's - how would they go in a Hobart? 

Well sailed just fine but they're very dependent on crew weight.

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11 hours ago, hoppy said:

Do you have a special price on the SF3200 at $80k at the show? ;)

Won't be making the show as the missus and 6mth old daughter get back from a month in Europe.

I take it you work for 38 South? My SO40 is on the same dock as the 39i you have listed and I can see it's mast in one photo :)

Still just toying with the idea at the moment

Yes, I have walked past Jessabe a few times. Will say hello next time I see you there.

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55 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Yes, I have walked past Jessabe a few times. Will say hello next time I see you there.

Is the yes to the special price on the SF3200? ;)

Do day hi..

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On 26/07/2017 at 3:31 PM, Last Post said:

Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

Hi Hoppy

The Elliott is setup for both both Assy and Sym options. We never took the mast track and car off, just added the bowsprit so we could add A sails that block out the sun. :) She only weighs 4 tonne so is wicked fun on a reach.

Good luck with your shopping.

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My North A2 is massive and blocks out the sun. Best of all I can use it when I am solo :)

tumblr_nrllyhxxpB1qfrdcro7_500.jpg 

But on a DDW leg I am best off dropping the main

tumblr_nrllyhxxpB1qfrdcro8_500.jpg

And my code 1 gets her moving in little wind

tumblr_mbbzgmDplT1qfrdcro3_500.jpg

 

If I do sell her for a racer, the buyer will get a pretty well equipped yacht. 

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On 7/26/2017 at 1:31 PM, Last Post said:

NSX36 is a good option if you are a competitive sailor with a good helmsman and crew. Elliott boats like 10.5 are marginal with Assys unless you go to really big motherfucker blot out the sun assys like some have done in Auckland,

Most older boats gain little benefit from assys because they are just too heavy to generate the speed needed to cover the extra distance. Rule of thumb: if it wasn't originally designed with an assy, dont fuck with it. Most racing here is w/l anyway so non-planing boats with assys will always struggle against deep running symm boats on those courses.

I'm yet to see an Elliott boat that was any good at all upwind.  Greg's focus seems to be reaching and downhill, and that's not bad, but it really depends on the nature of the racing you want to do.

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5 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Two photos & a two word description. Why bother listing it. 

LOL

Some people really don't have a clue about selling.

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6 hours ago, DickDastardly said:

I'm yet to see an Elliott boat that was any good at all upwind.  Greg's focus seems to be reaching and downhill, and that's not bad, but it really depends on the nature of the racing you want to do.

Totally agree that it depends on the type of sailing you intend to do.

The heading says "club racing". One thing I know for sure. If you do 90% club racing you should go for assy kites. Its alot easier when the wind gets up. Less chance of hurting people. 

We would all love to have a great racing crew around us all the time but the truth is that rarely happens. 

Keep it simple and enjoy. Go the bowsprit.

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13 hours ago, hoppy said:

LOL

Some people really don't have a clue about selling.

The joys of being a position where the seller doesn't need to sell and wants to ensure it ends up with someone who knows what they will be getting.

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13 hours ago, Rushman said:

@Swannoshould be able to answer any questions you might get have... he knows the seller quite well

75K for a sixty footer

And another $75k for a new set of sails...

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46 minutes ago, Last Post said:

And another $75k for a new set of sails...

Headsail I saw was in good condition, can't comment on the others but I was told the square top main was a recent addition

Interior is race ready with limited comforts

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1 hour ago, Swanno said:

The joys of being a position where the seller doesn't need to sell and wants to ensure it ends up with someone who knows what they will be getting.

If there is no need to sell, then I would have thought that you still make a bit more effort and have a "tell em they're dream'n" price

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14 hours ago, Rushman said:

@Swannoshould be able to answer any questions you might get have... he knows the seller quite well

75K for a sixty footer

Tell him he's dreamin...was it Siska?

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23 hours ago, hoppy said:

What are the Bull 9000 like? 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/south-fremantle/sail-boats/bull-9000-wild-bull-/1145956513

There's a Bull 9000 up the dock from me. It has the crazy bull horn setup for the retractable bowsprit. Only some seem to have it.

Can they ocean race?

Yep.  A few o fthese have sailed ofshore over the years

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1 hour ago, DickDastardly said:

Yep.  A few o fthese have sailed ofshore over the years

IIRC, Coombsy did a Melbourne-Devonport in his back in 1997.

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2 hours ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

A good collection of old Volvo & Kooka sails in those pics. Was the build new ( looks very Siska like if taken off mould etc) or was it re imagined from a previous life?

Aluminium hull custom built my by father and current owner, launched 30 years ago as of Feb next year. Designed by a Kiwi bloke. A bit Farr inspired I guess but light displacement for her era at 10t. All of the Kooka/12m kites are fractional, mostly now tissue paper and therefore redundant. Chicken chute at 1.5 oz is still like cardboard. Most of the kites are ex circuit TP52. Main, well there is a massive <12 knot main that has half a season on it, square head carbon jobby with 20 odd can races and a heavy Dacron main that did three or four seasons. 

Melbourne people may recall A 40 footer called Stilletto, she was the first boat my old boy built and campaigned on this coast. This boat goes better to windward.

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On 28/07/2017 at 8:30 PM, hoppy said:

What are the Bull 9000 like? 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/south-fremantle/sail-boats/bull-9000-wild-bull-/1145956513

There's a Bull 9000 up the dock from me. It has the crazy bull horn setup for the retractable bowsprit. Only some seem to have it.

Can they ocean race?

This boat has had a few lives over here. Originally sailing out of Albany. It moved up this way and did a bit of inshore work off the coast. Current owner doesn't have the time to race it properly I believe.

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11 hours ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Farr inspired mid to tuck, still think there is some Tasker in that bow. :)

I'll have to take your word on it, Siska had come and gone before my time and before the boat was launched.

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17 hours ago, Swanno said:

Aluminium hull custom built my by father and current owner, launched 30 years ago as of Feb next year. Designed by a Kiwi bloke. A bit Farr inspired I guess but light displacement for her era at 10t. All of the Kooka/12m kites are fractional, mostly now tissue paper and therefore redundant. Chicken chute at 1.5 oz is still like cardboard. Most of the kites are ex circuit TP52. Main, well there is a massive <12 knot main that has half a season on it, square head carbon jobby with 20 odd can races and a heavy Dacron main that did three or four seasons. 

Melbourne people may recall A 40 footer called Stilletto, she was the first boat my old boy built and campaigned on this coast. This boat goes better to windward.

Stilletto - "The Splinter" Sort of quick-ish off the wind but very ordinary upwind. Short MH rig as I recall but she's a distant memory these days. Sailed out of Hobsons Bay, Rex Palmer?? Must have been as wet as a half tide rock in our Port Phillip seaway.

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2 hours ago, Last Post said:

Stilletto - "The Splinter" Sort of quick-ish off the wind but very ordinary upwind. Short MH rig as I recall but she's a distant memory these days. Sailed out of Hobsons Bay, Rex Palmer?? Must have been as wet as a half tide rock in our Port Phillip seaway.

That's it. She was cracking high teens back in the 70's before it was cool.

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A guy I worked with back in the late '80's, sailed a boat across the Bight to Melbourne, was that Stiletto?

Long and thin, perhaps red... had a foot of water in the bilge for most of the trip

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I'd be patient and wait for something to come up on Boatsales. Nothing much up there other than Challenge a Sydney 38 and and old Farr 40, The resr I wouldn;'t touch

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54 minutes ago, Rushman said:

A guy I worked with back in the late '80's, sailed a boat across the Bight to Melbourne, was that Stiletto?

Long and thin, perhaps red... had a foot of water in the bilge for most of the trip

Could have been it. I think he sold the 40 in 82 to a syndicate that raced it over here before it went east. Would have been a wet trip across the bottom, but it did sail to Bali and back so it was capable.

IMG_1337.JPG

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35 minutes ago, Swanno said:

Could have been it. I think he sold the 40 in 82 to a syndicate that raced it over here before it went east. Would have been a wet trip across the bottom, but it did sail to Bali and back so it was capable.

IMG_1337.JPG

That does look like it and the syndicate buy sounds right.  

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Only taken 35 years for designers to catch on to flush decks and low freeboard on racing boats 

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What's the Titan 36 like? I see it's based on the Bakewell White designed Foundation 36? I see a couple are for sale over in WA. 

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/177104

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/156634

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40 :(

http://www.yoti.com.au/listing/bakewell-white-37-general-lee

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But not always :)

Ian's is a Razr 36 which was a locally (Sydney) variant with a deeper keel, new rudder and (I think) a bigger rig. I think but am not sure that David Lyons may have designed the underwater appendages if not the new rig too. Would guess it is a bit racier than the Titan 36.

In all its forms it is however a sweet boat..

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22 minutes ago, ColinG said:

But not always :)

Ian's is a Razr 36 which was a locally (Sydney) variant with a deeper keel, new rudder and (I think) a bigger rig. I think but am not sure that David Lyons may have designed the underwater appendages if not the new rig too. Would guess it is a bit racier than the Titan 36.

In all its forms it is however a sweet boat..

I sail said boat from time to time. Rather fun. Would be much better with a lighter rig but it's sweet as is. 

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Sail against it on Impetuous Two with the old blokes, hurts when at 51 your the youngest by about 20 years and consequently get sent to the bow.

 

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3 hours ago, Bill E Goat said:

Sail against it on Impetuous Two with the old blokes, hurts when at 51 your the youngest by about 20 years and consequently get sent to the bow.

 

About Time's bowman is 54...

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11 hours ago, hoppy said:

What's the Titan 36 like? I see it's based on the Bakewell White designed Foundation 36? I see a couple are for sale over in WA. 

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/177104

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/156634

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40 :(

http://www.yoti.com.au/listing/bakewell-white-37-general-lee

They are the 'offshore' version of the Foundation 36. Same hull, just different rig. Foundation 36's are the state match racing monohull and are extensively used by Swan River Sailing. Slippery hulls, easy to sail but visually un-inspiring.

 

 

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Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery ;) )

foundation_36_drawing.jpg.0b031fd67dec78067998e45f76e21e1c.jpgkm36_drawing.jpg.5dfcfb4914accce8aae1ee57ff9cc4a3.jpg

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On 8/16/2017 at 10:43 AM, hoppy said:

What's the Titan 36 like? I see it's based on the Bakewell White designed Foundation 36? I see a couple are for sale over in WA. 

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/177104

http://vicsailwa.com/vicsail_wa/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/titan-36/156634

The only Bakewell White boat I had heard of until now was "General Lee" which impressed me once by the speed it was doing on a youtube video. GL is for sale but the price is more than double than I'd probably list my SO40 :(

http://www.yoti.com.au/listing/bakewell-white-37-general-lee

I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

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2 hours ago, Last Post said:

I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

Is it inappropriate in the US to like the Dukes of Hazard TV show/movie. I do think it would have been inappropriate to race GL without at least one Daisy Duke on the crew. The GL was a front runner on my 30m Powerball winning shopping spree since a V70 would not get into RMYS.

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery ;) )

foundation_36_drawing.jpg.0b031fd67dec78067998e45f76e21e1c.jpgkm36_drawing.jpg.5dfcfb4914accce8aae1ee57ff9cc4a3.jpg

I have a recent message from  Andy Dovell advising that a new keel for a Sydney 47 - total weight around 3 tonnes, cost around $65K for a cast and milled iron fin and lead bulb, to top end specifications.   In andy's view you scale it roughly on weight to get a cost for a smaller boat.  A lower spec - hand finished instead of milled - would be cheaper.  We are budgeting around $40K for a 40 footer I am working with on considering keel options.

Strength requirements for keel floors are driven by the keel weight and CG.  For the same RM a lighter deeper keel puts a similar load on the keel floors, go deeper with the same keel weight and you do need to consider the strength of the structure.  Also consider target wind range, if the boat is generally sailing at low hull speeds keel drag is less of a factor.  At high hull and planing speeds it becomes more significant.  Optimum answer depends in part on your prevailing weather, the type of racing you do and how your handicap systems treats the keel in question.

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49 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Is it inappropriate in the US to like the Dukes of Hazard TV show/movie. I do think it would have been inappropriate to race GL without at least one Daisy Duke on the crew. The GL was a front runner on my 30m Powerball winning shopping spree since a V70 would not get into RMYS.

The confederate flag has racist overtones to many in the US as has been witnessed in the recent unpleasantness. There was a lot of discourse on these pages about it when the boat was first launched in Western Australia.

Personally, I have no issue with Daisy Duke's shorts.

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2 hours ago, Last Post said:

The confederate flag has racist overtones to many in the US as has been witnessed in the recent unpleasantness. There was a lot of discourse on these pages about it when the boat was first launched in Western Australia.

Personally, I have no issue with Daisy Duke's shorts.

I guess this is the problem with the internet making the world smaller. 

In the US "General Lee" may get people thinking 

1200px-Robert_Edward_Lee.jpg

but in Australia, with the exception of history buffs, we automatically think of

150701-dukes-of-hazzard-news.jpg

 

or even better

 

live-a-dukes-of-hazard-fantasy-with-this

 

d59b7e093dc543877a2bbbc7a850c958--rednec

 

I'd probably want to change the name and paint job for matters of taste, but not related to being PC

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8 hours ago, Last Post said:

I wondered what had happened with GL. She / he racked up some pretty impressive results which were widely discussed here on SA, along with much criticism of her " USA inappropriate" name and graphics for a while, but then she suddenly stopped appearing and nothing more was heard of her. Whats the story morning glory? Any WA anarchists care to fill in the gaps?

Hasn't moved for years after it won the handicap honours in the Bali race (in 2013 I think). Owner has had it out in recent months doing round the cans winter stuff in the river but prior to that, just sat. 

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1 hour ago, DtM said:

So Hoppy, other than buying Daisy, where are you at?

Getting serious about listing my Jeanneau, will meet up with Sportscar soon to discuss it.

Told the missus about my plan, she was shocked that I could consider selling it, but was relieved that I still want a boat. I guess a race boat means she can come day sailing and even racing but not have to take a family cruise to Tassie. 

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25 minutes ago, Swanno said:

Hasn't moved for years after it won the handicap honours in the Bali race (in 2013 I think). Owner has had it out in recent months doing round the cans winter stuff in the river but prior to that, just sat. 

Seems such a waste. I wonder what it cost when new. North of 500k I assume,

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9 hours ago, hoppy said:

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what ball park the cost of designing and building a new keel is?

I was looking at 2 Bakewell White 36ft designs for different eras and the most noticable difference between a 90's and the 00's design is the keel. The foundation 36 has a draft of 1.9m (Titan 2.3m) and the KM36 is 2.64m.

I would imagine that upgrading from an old style keel design to a modern foil/bulb that is deeper and lighter would make a significant performance upgrade. Perhaps the need for reengineering the hull structures makes it an uneconomical upgrade and is why it is not done to boats at this end of the price scale?

(the same thought has crossed my mind with my Jeanneau as something fun to try if I won a 30m powerball lottery ;) )

foundation_36_drawing.jpg.0b031fd67dec78067998e45f76e21e1c.jpgkm36_drawing.jpg.5dfcfb4914accce8aae1ee57ff9cc4a3.jpg

The foundation 36 has such a shallow draught as they sail up river over here and often run regattas in very shallow areas

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31 minutes ago, Swanno said:

The foundation 36 has such a shallow draught as they sail up river over here and often run regattas in very shallow areas

Yeah 1.9m is pretty shallow. The Titan with 2.3m seems a bit more sensible.

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Hmmmm when my boat was out of the water in Sandy in Autumn, the Sydney 38 Challenge was also in the yard and was looking pretty neat. I see it's for sale now. Need to see if my uncle who is my regular crew want's to go halvies....

http://www.boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/private/used/SSE-AD-4785999/2004-SYDNEY-38-OD/?cr=15&psq=(((Service%3D[Boatsales]%26BoatType%3D[Sail])%26(((SiloType%3D[Dealer used boats]|SiloType%3D[Dealer new boats])|SiloType%3D[Private used boats])|SiloType%3D[Demo and near new boats]))%26Usage%3D[Racing])&pso=15&pss=Premium

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2 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Does anybody know of any Bakewell White boats with really good results. Maybe except GL winning a couple of races. 

certainly not CQS.. I thing they designed the recent upgrades

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2 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Does anybody know of any Bakewell White boats with really good results. Maybe except GL winning a couple of races. 

certainly not CQS.. I thing they designed the recent upgrades

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8 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Does anybody know of any Bakewell White boats with really good results. Maybe except GL winning a couple of races. 

Wired seems to go ok

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GL and beforehand it Alfresco introduced a new league of racing over here. The boats were throttled hence the results appeared.

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15 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Does anybody know of any Bakewell White boats with really good results. Maybe except GL winning a couple of races. 

The YD37 Anarchy is a Bakewell White isn't it?

 

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I'm thinking that it could be possible to go halves in a racer if it has a cruisable interior and perhaps the price range could be extended to 100k to 140k.

What are good boats in that price range?

Sydney 38 OD's are pretty common and seem to be reasonable inside, although the Sydney 38/41 thread does not seem to rate them so highly in IMS competitiveness, but then again it would be a huge improvement on my Jeanneau and the crew work will be the bigger problem. Anyone know how the S38 compare to a Farr 38 IMS?

What's a Northshore 369 like? 

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Northshore 369 never really stood out. I'd take a 38 over a 369 for similar money. I think there's one or two 369's for sale at the moment. 

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369 will sail rings around a NS 38. 369 can be quite competitive if well sailed, 38 no way.

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4 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

369 will sail rings around a NS 38. 369 can be quite competitive if well sailed, 38 no way.

And a Mumm 36 will smack a Northshore 369

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There is a NS 369 opposite my boat in the marina and I just now noticed that like us, they only raced in 3 of the winter pursuit races and in the final series result, they were 21st and we were 26th. Not so impressive. In Saturday's pursuit race, the NS369 did manage to finish whilst we ran out of time, but their finish time did not looks so impressive. It was terrible conditions for us as the winds were so light, but we were looking like we were going to beat a few light weight boats that I expected would murder us in the conditions.

Perhaps if we had a nice big no.1 laminate and main, instead heavy cruising dacrons (genoa a no.2) we might have been close to the NS369

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1 hour ago, SPORTSCAR said:

369 will sail rings around a NS 38. 369 can be quite competitive if well sailed, 38 no way.

the "38 no way", is that the NS 38 or the Sydney 38?

I'm starting to wonder how accurate are the sale sites for listings. There an A40rc listed on yachthub as being located in QLD, but that same boat has been blasting past us from our first race at the start of winter up until Saturday ;)

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6 hours ago, hoppy said:

the "38 no way", is that the NS 38 or the Sydney 38?

I'm starting to wonder how accurate are the sale sites for listings. There an A40rc listed on yachthub as being located in QLD, but that same boat has been blasting past us from our first race at the start of winter up until Saturday ;)

NS 38. Syd 38 a much quicker boat than either of the NS boats. That 369 you have at St Kilda is not competitive compared to the one listed for private sale at Hobsons Bay. That  369 has been optimised and is (usually) very well sailed with good race success.

FYI: I sold that A40RC (Arcadia) to PJ nearly 2 years ago! Who is still showing it as a listing?

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The NS369 looks pretty civilised inside but as they seem to be more expensive than a Sydney 38, I think the S38 would be a better option if I can organise a partner.

I'm still impressed by how good Challenge looked in the yard, but when I read the sales pitch in the ad I feel it is too good for our skill level;)

 

I think I found Arcadia on yachthub. 

A year after buying my boat I found it listed on yachtworld by a very dodgy Greek broker. All of his listings had only one or two photos of the outside and you had to contact him for more details. Based on the number of ads you would think he was the biggest  broker in Greece. 

When I was looking it began to annoy me when I found an interesting boat and then realised it was his listing. Very quickly I concluded he probably just photographed yachts in yards and marinas and posted them for a bait-n-switch.

i contacted him and he quickly removed my boat.

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On 20/08/2017 at 8:11 PM, Rushman said:

The YD37 Anarchy is a Bakewell White isn't it?

 

Indeed. An updated version of GL and Alfie so I believe

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