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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
terrafirma

Rolex Fastnet Race 2017

276 posts in this topic

I know its upwind but anyone else underwhelmed by the infiti 46. Currently adjacent an RP45

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Maverick in between two Kerr 46's.... they are pretty dam fast... probably the benchmark for 46 footers no?

2017 lady Mariposa results

2nd IRC 1 ~ Warsash Spring Championship - Hamble UK

5th IRC 1 ~ Easter Challenge - Hamble UK

1st IRC 0 ~ RORC De Guingand Bowl - Channel

2nd IRC 0 ~ RORC North Sea Race - North Sea (Harwich - Scheveningen)

1st IRC 1 ~ North Sea Regatta - Scheveningen, Holland

1st IRC 1 ~RORC IRC Nationals - Cowes UK

 

 

Crusaider handicap is almost as bad as Cookson 50.... have to wait for them in the reaching to see the potential.... same for CQS and Maverick who are not foiling upwind, although Maverick showing that they don't get much of a penalty upwind having the winglets or DSS there, otherwise they would be further back.

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Wow. What an event. 368 entries was it?

Wall to wall boats on the start at times. Awesome.

Screen Shot 2017-08-07 at 8.45.14 AM.png

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2 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The man ...and the boat..shame about the race conditions.

Yes, seems to be very slow in these conditions. Competing with a very old imoca 60, Varuna and a cruiser racer cat  

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33nm behind SMA. Let's hope that the way back is a bit more exciting for HB. Getting rolled by a Ker56 that started hours later must sting... (Varuna)

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1 minute ago, theadmiralty said:

Why is Hugo Boss such a bitch upwind? 

Cause it was designed for the VG and its predominantly a downwind race. Dali foils don't resist the sideways force as much as straight foils on the older boats. 

I also suspect her configuration of foils is even worse then the other dali foils for upwind work but I'm not a marine architect so don't hold me to that.   

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Of all the new IMOCA they optimized the most for downwind sailing. Helps over the course of the Vendee Globe, does not work upwind.

SMA in the front is an older boat (2011), much lighter than the new ones where the rules require a lot more structure.

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Jean Pierre Dick and Boris Hermann have made a different choice, going west of the exclusion zone there. 

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Yeah, the Imoca and VOR tactic is different, the latter is follow the leader.

IRC doublehanded is funny to follow as well.

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are the monster exclusion zones new? what are they keeping the fleet away from?

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Privateer having a good race. Those cookson50's seems to always do well. Maverick is struggling to pass the class40 boats. 

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44 minutes ago, 2Newts said:

are the monster exclusion zones new? what are they keeping the fleet away from?

Definitely in place in '15. 

Keeeping boats out of traffic separation schemes. 

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Lest you all think I am a multihull sailor, I am not although we did operate a 55 Alexis Simonis cat in the Virgin Islands for a few years.

So what are the chances the MOD 70 Concise 10 will finish before some entrants even make it to Lands end? Of course, they may fall into a hole along the way.

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10 minutes ago, bajakiter said:

So what are the chances the MOD 70 Concise 10 will finish before some entrants even make it to Lands end? Of course, they may fall into a hole along the way.

No contest.

They'll be done twice over before Harriet Marwood makes Lands end.

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17 hours ago, terrafirma said:

So we can't use a Dennis Conner term for his boat..? CQS is the highest rated boat by quite a way but not sailing that way. Nikata the 115" cruiser is ahead of her

Today CQS made up quite some ground and overtook all but Rambler in the IRC Zero Class. Nikata is quite fun to watch none the less.

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hell of a spread on the fleet now from the wind and tidal gates and tactical decisions. Nav on Maverick in particular should be flicked for the horlicks out and around Portland, they threw the race away there.  Pretty impressive climb back through the fleet though since then and closing down Mariposa which is good yardstick for upwind variable conditions.  Class 40s and Merron/Mabire doing an amazing breakaway and the wind shift to come will favour the later boats out of the channel for a while.  As ever, tactically a seriously challenging race and lots more to come to keep them on their toes!  Hard to tell if its going to be a big or middle sized boat race, but reckon the little ones will get parked up for too long.

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2 hours ago, 2Newts said:

are the monster exclusion zones new? what are they keeping the fleet away from?

In theory, shipping lanes. How many ships are actually there is another question.

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1 hour ago, bajakiter said:

Lest you all think I am a multihull sailor, I am not although we did operate a 55 Alexis Simonis cat in the Virgin Islands for a few years.

So what are the chances the MOD 70 Concise 10 will finish before some entrants even make it to Lands end? Of course, they may fall into a hole along the way.

Pretty slow race for Concise so far, in the last two Fastnets the MOD 70s have been nearly finished by this point... Not saying it is Concise's fault, just pointing out how quick they can be in the right conditions.

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1 hour ago, staysail said:

Great to see Miranda leading class 40! Class act.

Looks like Miranda and Halvard snuck ahead in the patch of light air to the east of the exclusion zone.  They stayed a bit further to the west of that narrow strip of water and it paid dividends. 

Lands End... where wind and dreams go to die.

The other move was getting around the Lizard last night.  There was a clear leader pack as they battled it out in Falmouth Bay, but then those five or so boats that got around the Lizard first really legged it out from the peloton.

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It will also be interesting to see how Cap des Palmes and Roaring Forth do versus the pack they were with at Lands End.  They chose to separate, and stay to the east of the exclusion, and my guess is that it will cost them.

And now we will get to see if the split to the south of the Scillies pays, with Catherine on Erandil making the move.  That decision paid real dividends in 2015 for the race-within-the-race that is the Class40 fleet.

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10 minutes ago, Rail Meat said:

The other move was getting around the Lizard last night.  There was a clear leader pack as they battled it out in Falmouth Bay, but then those five or so boats that got around the Lizard first really legged it out from the peloton.

Tidal gate?

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Interesting change of heart from Stella Nova handling the TSS at Land's End:

Selection_064.png.7ac5fd8ee8b28bde827b48e81a0e994d.png

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1 hour ago, Chasm said:

No contest.

They'll be done twice over before Harriet Marwood makes Lands end.

Especially as Harriet Marwood retired 3hrs in due to a collision going out of Hurst.........

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Should be interesting for Concise in a couple hours...  doing 20+ knots Eastbound between exclusion zones with 100+ little boats crammed into the same space, going the opposite direction, at what...  4 AM local time or so?  Plenty of tired, bleary-eyed helmsmen, some shorthanded, etc...

If it were me, I'd probably avoid the traffic and go South of the "South of Scilly" TSS...  Then just stay South of the fleet until past the last of them.  Perhaps the wind is better down there anyway.

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42 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

Tidal gate?

Seems that way.  I have not bothered to check the tide tables, but it would explain them catching the west bound current and getting a leg up.

 

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Phil Sharp split from the Class 40 leader pack and it is paying off at the moment.  Seems to make sense from what I see... he is tacking his way up in the shortest line to the pressure filling in from the north west.

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Has anyone here raced in that bight east of Torquay ? They seem to be going way too far north into that area and covering much more distance. Are they trying to pick up a SW current along the shore or something ?

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16 hours ago, money drain said:

According to their FB page a month or so back, it's not sold and it's the same crew as before. Not signed up with a different name as I can see, but maybe you confuse it with the Elliott 52ss Outsider? (I did, for 3 seconds)

Can't really figure out why Crusader is in class Z, along with VO70s, CQS, etc. Is their rating really that high, or is it a mistake? Doesn't sound fun sailing upwind with that boat in that class...

Yep it really rates that high! It rates only 0.020 behind the Cookson 50, 0.006 behind a whitbread 60 and a fair bit higher than a slightly turboed Farr 52, they're gaining a little speed now but before the car park at the lizard they were struggling to catch the well sailed 32-36ft production racer-cruisers

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Focus is on the fast boats but if I were out there I'd be looking at Wednesday as potentially going to be too heavy for the rest of the fleet piling up around the rock. 

 

Pleasantly surprised Hugo Boss has maintained relative contact with the leaders. It's been a rough couple of days on board, once they round the rock Hugo Boss might average a knot or two adv consistently perhaps more if the winds pick up as expected later in the day. It'll be a nice chase the rabbit. 

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1 hour ago, Quagers said:

Especially as Harriet Marwood retired 3hrs in due to a collision going out of Hurst.........

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fun with the tracker... They had a recent time and unlike the others in the back (still) no retirement annotation. (12 listed at this time.)

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8 minutes ago, Chasm said:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Fun with the tracker... They had a recent time and unlike the others in the back (still) no retirement annotation. (12 listed at this time.)

I think they might now be delivering home, this was them on Sunday afternoon after a collision with Persephone near the Shingles bank:

5988ebef902ce_20615786_1430729590297306_3416769185346205431_o(2).jpg.5e2e836968ec4355f6439483ed979c9c.jpg

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1 hour ago, Your Mom said:

Should be interesting for Concise in a couple hours...  doing 20+ knots Eastbound between exclusion zones with 100+ little boats crammed into the same space, going the opposite direction, at what...  4 AM local time or so?  Plenty of tired, bleary-eyed helmsmen, some shorthanded, etc...

If it were me, I'd probably avoid the traffic and go South of the "South of Scilly" TSS...  Then just stay South of the fleet until past the last of them.  Perhaps the wind is better down there anyway.

They hear you :)

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Anyone found where the crew lists are on the FR site?

 

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5 hours ago, 2Newts said:

are the monster exclusion zones new? what are they keeping the fleet away from?

as mentioned, the TSS zones

TSS.jpg

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I actually love the TSS zones in this race.  The tide gates and the TSS zones turn this race from a boat speed parade across some beautiful water into an actual tactical and strategic challenge.

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Hugo Boss having one to forget. Varuna is leading her by a few miles. Varuna will be quick once they round the rock to so the Boss will be hoping for some foiling conditions

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Erandil is crushing the south-of-Scillies option.  4 hours and 18 minutes ago she was in 14th.  Now in 7th, 13 miles out of first place (about 7 miles out of 3rd) and moving faster than the six boats in front  of her.  Catherine, making the TSS choice pay off.

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21 hours ago, fredhall said:

Saw that Pip Hare and Peter Harding are dis-masted - anyone got an update on the cause?

Pic is from Pip's facebook page

 

20638829_1491523977597965_6305189261712741657_n.jpg

There has been one significant retirement among the Class40s when Phor-ty, the competitive Mach 40 of Britain’s Peter Harding, was dismasted yesterday afternoon four miles from Portland Bill. “I had a really good feeling – we were moving in the right direction in the fleet and we had a really good crew. I am very gutted,” admitted Phor-ty’s Pip Hare. “We got to Portland Race on the turn of the tide so we had the first of the tide against us, but we were still making eight knots across the ground. It wasn’t as lumpy as it could have been. But then we had a failure of a forestay fitting - it went ‘BANG’ and the mast floated down behind us.”

They were able to save the rig with minimal damage and retired into Portland Harbour.

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3 hours ago, DFL1010 said:

Interesting change of heart from Stella Nova handling the TSS at Land's End:

Selection_064.png.7ac5fd8ee8b28bde827b48e81a0e994d.png

Big Swan, I think 57', did same.

5988ebef902ce_20615786_1430729590297306_3416769185346205431_o(2).jpg.5e2e836968ec4355f6439483ed979c9c.jpg

Why? I can understand this at the start line but.......?

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

as mentioned, the TSS zones

TSS.jpg

Adding these TSS exclusion zones are dumb. 

I can understand in some places but those that are passed in this race are hardly used. This is not the Strait of Dover.

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1 hour ago, Tropical Madness said:

Scallywag moved up to 4th. Who needs 12mths of training for a Volvo!

Plenty of time for them to fuck it up yet. The Fastnet takes days rather than weeks and is not the Volvo. F Witt will have lucky breaks, like everyone else.

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Rambler is the first mono around, now sailing 172 at 16.7 knots.

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1 hour ago, Last Post said:

Plenty of time for them to fuck it up yet. The Fastnet takes days rather than weeks and is not the Volvo. F Witt will have lucky breaks, like everyone else.

As someone reminded me as we headed towards certain victory recently -- "nothing is unfuckable!"

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with enough beers and paper bags

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4 hours ago, By the lee said:

Big Swan, I think 57', did same.

5988ebef902ce_20615786_1430729590297306_3416769185346205431_o(2).jpg.5e2e836968ec4355f6439483ed979c9c.jpg

Why? I can understand this at the start line but.......?

I would guess they were short tacking up the bank to dodge the tide, it is normally carnage at that point as the fleets are started in reverse speed order and by Shingles the faster boats are starting to come through the slower ones. 300+ boats trying to short tack a narrow channel, I can see how it happens, not smart though. The same might be said about the maxi which managed to run aground and get stuck on them for 4hrs last edition (the ironically named "Lucky").

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What are the wind conditions like once the boats round the rock? Good enough to get an idea of how the VOR & IMOCA compare speed wise? As Rambler is doing nearly 19, I hope the conditions will suit the high speed drag race.

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Rambler is OFF! More than 2 knots faster than anything else past the rock

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

What are the wind conditions like once the boats round the rock? Good enough to get an idea of how the VOR & IMOCA compare speed wise? As Rambler is doing nearly 19, I hope the conditions will suit the high speed drag race.

Waiting to see what the little Elliott 35SS Crusader can do on that leg home after the Rock. That thing is blistering fast reaching but needs to be with an IRC tcf similar to that of a Cookson 50.

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The cookson 50 is going to hit the rock with the strongest forecast downwind condition.......

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41 minutes ago, dachopper said:

The cookson 50 is going to hit the rock with the strongest forecast downwind condition.......

Cookson 50 Privateer with Melbourne Aus lad Peter Fletcher on board - send it home Fletch!

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On 8/6/2017 at 4:04 PM, Chasm said:

The tracker works but the site is still utterly dead.

tracker link: http://cf.yb.tl/fastnet2017

 

On 8/6/2017 at 6:27 PM, mad said:

Just like every year!!

when will they ever learn?

Three times the traffic level that they've ever seen before. 

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Tommo got the layline for the rock all wrong there. Gonna require another tack at least! 

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Rambo and CQS are gonna sail right through the fleet. Could be carnage.... some very tired skippers out there who will stand on all fucking day! 

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1 hour ago, Last Post said:

Cookson 50 Privateer with Melbourne Aus lad Peter Fletcher on board - send it home Fletch!

I thought he was from Hobart...

But nevermind,yes - send it! :) 

Also cheering for Talanta in class 40, currently on 12th place. Go, go, go!

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Not sure they have enough breeze to light up and go torch the VOR mini trucks

 

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26 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

 

Three times the traffic level that they've ever seen before. 

Which in the grand scheme of all things internet is fuck all!

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24 minutes ago, NORBowGirl said:

I thought he was from Hobart...

But nevermind,yes - send it! :) 

Also cheering for Talanta in class 40, currently on 12th place. Go, go, go!

Originally a Tassie lad, yes, but we claimed him and I think he has since had the second bonce removed :lol:

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3 hours ago, fredhall said:

Rambler is OFF! More than 2 knots faster than anything else past the rock

Um. Hundreds of miles off the pace. Concise finished a couple hours after R88 rounded the rock.

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Well, that did not last.  I go to sleep and Earendil slips 10 places.  Tough fleet.

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30 minutes ago, Last Post said:

Originally a Tassie lad, yes, but we claimed him and I think he has since had the second bonce removed :lol:

:P

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4 hours ago, fredhall said:

Rambler is OFF! More than 2 knots faster than anything else past the rock

But with interesting track selection. No sails for downwind on board and thus always reaching? :)

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Giving the fleet a show? They are going through the main part of IRC.

SMA still leading the VO65. HB still at the tail end of the IMOCA, any IMOCA including Artemis racing under IRC. 

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Would like to see more 70ft+ trimarans race each other.

Bit of a cake walk for Concise...

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 Think HB fucked it up. Maybe another two tacks before they can lay the rock. Wonder what happened.

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Looking over the tracker I was surprised to see "Monster Project - VOR 70" as one of the boats currently rounding the rock.  I was even more surprised to find out Monster Project is the old Team Russia boat that never finished the VOR.  Of all the VOR 70's out there the Team Russia one was the last one I'd guess would still be sailing.  Figured it was rotting in a yard somewhere or cut up.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Chasm said:

Giving the fleet a show? They are going through the main part of IRC.

SMA still leading the VO65. HB still at the tail end of the IMOCA, any IMOCA including Artemis racing under IRC. 

Seems like that most Imocas are sailing deeper downwind than the VORs, and especially Malizia has been very fast. Will see if HB can sail past Varuna. Won't be easy

 

9 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Looking over the tracker I was surprised to see "Monster Project - VOR 70" as one of the boats currently rounding the rock.  I was even more surprised to find out Monster Project is the old Team Russia boat that never finished the VOR.  Of all the VOR 70's out there the Team Russia one was the last one I'd guess would still be sailing.  Figured it was rotting in a yard somewhere or cut up.

WetHog  :ph34r:

I think it is doing charter sailing. Has done some Atlantic crossings and races in the Caribbean

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Another one that is rounding the rock now is the HH66 R-Six. Currently #2 in multihull/MOCRA. Will be interesting to see how many hours they can gain on Concice off the wind.

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12 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Looking over the tracker I was surprised to see "Monster Project - VOR 70" as one of the boats currently rounding the rock.  I was even more surprised to find out Monster Project is the old Team Russia boat that never finished the VOR.  Of all the VOR 70's out there the Team Russia one was the last one I'd guess would still be sailing.  Figured it was rotting in a yard somewhere or cut up.

WetHog  :ph34r:

IIRC it got restored a couple of years ago and is available for charter but I'm not sure.

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3 hours ago, Last Post said:

Originally a Tassie lad, yes, but we claimed him and I think he has since had the second bonce removed :lol:

Melbourne has no claim to Fletch. He's a true Tassie from Hobart. Now part time roaming from Regatta to regatta, part time living in Dubai.

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I sure as hell hope HB will be able to smoke the others once past the rock. Cliffhanger I say.

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1 minute ago, Raptorsailor said:

IIRC it got restored a couple of years ago and is available for charter but I'm not sure.

Its a charter shitter. The was a pic of it at the start. Shitty old sails, waste of time it being out there. A decent VO70 would be well ahead of the VO65's

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1 minute ago, Soley said:

Its a charter shitter. The was a pic of it at the start. Shitty old sails, waste of time it being out there. A decent VO70 would be well ahead of the VO65's

Waste of time, other than for the people who are having a fun time sailing it presumably?

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1 minute ago, Raptorsailor said:

I sure as hell hope HB will be able to smoke the others once past the rock. Cliffhanger I say.

Just did ... let's hope .. not much time left 

HB.jpg

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looks like cqs maybe hasn't made the best tactical decisions on this run

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interesting....hb is now sailing almost SW. Wind has shifted more to N.

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At least HB has finally rounded the rock. SMA half way back.
JP Dick is winding it up. Looks like the faster IMOCA will leave the VO65 fleet behind on the downwind run.

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31 minutes ago, Flaming said:

Waste of time, other than for the people who are having a fun time sailing it presumably?

Shhhh. This isn't SA. You're not supposed to make proposals based on real life like that. We're all supposed to be Dubarry & harness wearing bow gods/pit maestros/afterguard tactical geniuses (delete as appropriate) unable to get any sleep because of the incessant phone calls from IMOCA/Volvo/AC teams desperate to throw a boat at us. 

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2 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

Shhhh. This isn't SA. You're not supposed to make proposals based on real life like that. We're all supposed to be Dubarry & harness wearing bow gods/pit maestros/afterguard tactical geniuses (delete as appropriate) unable to get any sleep because of the incessant phone calls from IMOCA/Volvo/AC teams desperate to throw a boat at us. 

Sorry, forgot myself.  

 

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39 minutes ago, jonas a said:

interesting....hb is now sailing almost SW. Wind has shifted more to N.

They had to clear the exclusion zone. Now sailing 124.

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I think I remember reading that the team russia was known to be a low budget affair from the beginning so the design brief was to add reliability rather than speed. Prob a good option for chartering. I thought it didn't finish the VOR due to reasons other than it falling apart.

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48 minutes ago, V21 said:

I think I remember reading that the team russia was known to be a low budget affair from the beginning so the design brief was to add reliability rather than speed. Prob a good option for chartering. I thought it didn't finish the VOR due to reasons other than it falling apart.

Humphries design, and yes it was built tough.  Which they sacrificed sone righting moment with less weight in bulb and more weight in structure.  The boat was built by Green Marine which lends credence that the weight distribution was by design.

Oleg Zherebtsov owned hyper markets in Russia,  and was the sole money behind the campaign. He also, with all due credit, actually sailed on the boat as the second bowman.   It might be the last Corinthian effort the VOR ever sees.

The design was maybe most notable for the use of stakes as a way to deflect water from the foredeck.  That fad seemed to die out after a few notable experiments.  The Russia boat also had rather low chines.

The crew was relatively inexperienced for Volvo style offshore sailing, compared to others, with Michael Joubert and Guillermo Altadi as the experienced hands.  Some names are better known now, like Hanakamp, Verbraak and Bubb.

Hard to tell how much of the speed issues were due to the boat versus an inexperienced crew.  They were back of the pack in the three legs theu finished before withdrawing from the race, and avoided last place only because there was some spectacular damage to other boats in Leg 1 and Leg 2 

The financial crash set Oleg back hard and led to their withdrawal.  His company ended up needing a bailout, then was bought out.  He has since gone in to other start ups, and is still sailing but apparently not off shore 

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1 hour ago, savoir said:

They had to clear the exclusion zone. Now sailing 124.

Looked like they went much more W than necessary. Now up to standard hb speeds +20 knots btw

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Just maintaining angles. Expect lots of gybes from Hugo Boss.

Meanwhile Nikata has hauled two miles out of CQS which probably explains why CQS has started covering.

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2 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Shhhh. This isn't SA. You're not supposed to make proposals based on real life like that. We're all supposed to be Dubarry & harness wearing bow gods/pit maestros/afterguard tactical geniuses (delete as appropriate) unable to get any sleep because of the incessant phone calls from IMOCA/Volvo/AC teams desperate to throw a boat at us. 

I race for fun but being competitive is part of it. Where is the fun slogging up hill for two days knowing that you will come DFL or close to it.

 

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2 minutes ago, Soley said:

I race for fun but being competitive is part of it. Where is the fun slogging up hill for two days knowing that you will come DFL or close to it.

 

Because a badly sailed, slow, Volvo 70 is still a shit ton faster than a 40.7? and they've never have any other chance to sail on that sort of boat without programs like this?

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Alex lighting it up now 22 knots.  Not gonna win, but should be fun watching him reel in the leaders

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In about an hour SMA and CQS are going to cross. SMA won't be far behind at all, maybe 2 - 3 miles.

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If I were on TTT, I'd ask if we'd like to run the boys into the TSS exclusion zone in about an hour. 

B)

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