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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Hobie Dog

Intensity MK II Laser Sail

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I have the Intensity MK II Laser Sail and the sail takes a lot of Cunningham just to get the wrinkle from the mast joint to the clew to a reasonable level. To me it feels like the sail is way under powered like this but if I let the Cunningham off it looks TERRIBLE and feels equally as slow. And this is racing against other boats with a mix of MK I class legal sails and knock off sails of both the MK I and MK II variety. At around 8-10kts it feels great once I can crank on more Cunningham and Vang. Downwind the sail looks great in all wind conditions with the Cunningham blown off and Vang set to a downwind setting.

Several others at my club have noted the same thing. I do not have a Class MK II sail yet to compare it to.

So:

1) Is this just how the new MK II sail is cut and we have to find what settings are best in the 0-8kts upwind range?

2) Or is the Intensity sail still a work in progress and they have some tweaking to do to match the class sail? They did a great job matching the MK I version and with a better sail cloth.

Thoughts???

 

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Intensity builds garbage products for cheap, what exactly did you expect from them?

This is the same company that brought you the 'Tyvek boat cover'.  
What a disaster that was....
No one should be surprised.

 

Want quality? Buy quality.  My dad taught me long ago, you can get 'cheap' or 'good' but not both!

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

Intensity builds garbage products for cheap, what exactly did you expect from them?

This is the same company that brought you the 'Tyvek boat cover'.  
What a disaster that was....
No one should be surprised.

 

Want quality? Buy quality.  My dad taught me long ago, you can get 'cheap' or 'good' but not both!

Well not really the question I was asking.

Like I said the Intensity MK I version was just about the same as the class version. It did have better sail cloth as well. Now the stitching was not as good as the class version but who cares. I found that with the Intensity the sail cloth and stitching would wear out at about the same time. The class sail stitching lasts longer but it does not really matter as once the sail cloth is worn the sail is no longer good for racing anyways. I guess it is a better sail to pass on down for day sailing.

What I am asking is the Intensity cut/design the same as the class sail? Or did Intensity just do the 'this is close enough' just to get some sails on the market but really does not reflect how the new MK II class sail performs.

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21 hours ago, Hobie Dog said:

I have the Intensity MK II Laser Sail and the sail takes a lot of Cunningham just to get the wrinkle from the mast joint to the clew to a reasonable level. To me it feels like the sail is way under powered like this but if I let the Cunningham off it looks TERRIBLE and feels equally as slow. And this is racing against other boats with a mix of MK I class legal sails and knock off sails of both the MK I and MK II variety. At around 8-10kts it feels great once I can crank on more Cunningham and Vang. Downwind the sail looks great in all wind conditions with the Cunningham blown off and Vang set to a downwind setting.

Several others at my club have noted the same thing. I do not have a Class MK II sail yet to compare it to.

So:

1) Is this just how the new MK II sail is cut and we have to find what settings are best in the 0-8kts upwind range?

2) Or is the Intensity sail still a work in progress and they have some tweaking to do to match the class sail? They did a great job matching the MK I version and with a better sail cloth.

Thoughts???

 

I can only talk to the Mark II class legal sail - not the Intensity, sorry.  But somewhat similar and somewhat different story easily resolved. 

The Mark II class sail was fine upwind and reaching with no distortion similar to what you mention so long as the normal level of vang was on to induce some mast bend when the sheet was eased.  I did observe that same vertical creases about a foot or so behind the mast, about 4 feet long but up higher and not extending to the bottom.  It appeared in downwind mode when you want the vang off more and and a softer leech for by the lee sailing.  It could be removed by adding vang back but it made for a hard stiff leech and slow downwind speed compared to what I was used to especially in light air...  It also helped a bit if you pushed the bottom of the sail up the mast after taking cunningham off going downwind.  Should not have to do that (the spars were in good shape) but it is what it is...

Now here is the good news.  After 2-3 sails frostbiting it seemed to "break-in" and the issue never reappeared.  I needed slight tweaks to my vang, outhaul, and cunningham settings but that is normal even when swapping out a new for an old sail of the same type.

This is a bit ago so I might not be recalling it correctly.  Was asked to put a thread up about it and did so you might find more with a search.

The other thing I will say 2 years down the road was that the sail held up great..  Really really happy with the longevity.

Good luck. I found the generic sails (I used them too) are usually a little different but with tweaks they can be made to work.  I never thought I was at an advantage or disadvantage regardless of the sail selection (generic, class legal, or who made them... just the old ones got blown out and were slow).

Repeated shoulder surgery and issues turned my Laser into a beach toy but the shoulders are getting stronger and I might get back so am curious how the sails do.  Miss the frostbiting.  Great boat, great club, great group of people. 

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Thanks for the feedback Wess.

I sailed last night in light air and it seems better so maybe there is a "break-in" period??? Or maybe I am just getting used to the sail??? I was also using more Vang.

 

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36 minutes ago, Hobie Dog said:

Thanks for the feedback Wess.

I sailed last night in light air and it seems better so maybe there is a "break-in" period??? Or maybe I am just getting used to the sail??? I was also using more Vang.

 

I was perhaps unintentionally misleading with the break in comment.  It may have been the time or it may have been my tweaks.  And remember I was using the class legal version; not the Intensity. On the class legal sail a few others that noted the same thing I did, observed that when easing the cunningham the sail didn't slide up the mast (so was like the cunningham was still on) and they also noticed (as did I following their suggestion) that pushing the bottom of the sail up at the gooseneck helped to alleviate the issue somewhat.  Even the need to do that eventually went away and that is what I was meaning about break-in (of the mast sleeve of the sail).

The vertical crease in the sail I saw and you describe (I think) is similar to what you would see if the boat was rigged at the dock with all controls eased and you just cranked on the cunningham, right?  Thus the thought that this is just a sail mast sleeve sticking issue.  But YMMV!

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

The vertical crease in the sail I saw and you describe (I think) is similar to what you would see if the boat was rigged at the dock with all controls eased and you just cranked on the cunningham, right?  Thus the thought that this is just a sail mast sleeve sticking issue.  But YMMV!

I don't know... I will try that and see how it looks.

BTW I have not seen the mast sleeve sticking issue.

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I've heard this referred to as "Hinging".  I have both the class standard mk2 as well as the intensity mk2 and both of them exhibit this behavior as shown below in a screenshot from the sportvid mk2 trimming video.

I did a clinic this summer and the only feedback i heard that 'fixed' this was a bit more outhaul than usual.

hqdefault.jpg

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On 8/2/2017 at 2:08 PM, Looper said:

I've heard this referred to as "Hinging".  I have both the class standard mk2 as well as the intensity mk2 and both of them exhibit this behavior as shown below in a screenshot from the sportvid mk2 trimming video.

I did a clinic this summer and the only feedback i heard that 'fixed' this was a bit more outhaul than usual.

hqdefault.jpg

@Hobie Dog - if Looper's pic above describes what you are encountering ignore my counsel.  My and others issues was not a diagonal crease to the clew as shown (I assumed you misspoke and meant tack) and its why I kept referencing a long vertical crease about a foot behind the mast.  I have not encountered the hinging Looper describes in either class legal or generic sails but knew a fair number of folks that encountered the vertical crease so assumed you meant that.  :-)

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This sail is also suffering from lime disease. It is very subtle, but the arrow points to it. No one has a clew how to cure it.

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4 hours ago, bill4 said:

This sail is also suffering from lime disease. It is very subtle, but the arrow points to it. No one has a clew how to cure it.

 

 

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Ha! I have generally found that sailing or skiing anything, anywhere fixes most everything, at any time!  But drinking might also work!

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is the green area highlighting a problem? Looks like it may be a bit flat up there for what looks like lightish conditions, but dunno what I'm looking for/at.

 

 

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No, the problem is the long diagonal crease from the upper mast partners to the clew.  this was the only photo i could quickly locate that showed it.  I believe this is what OP is referring to.

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43 minutes ago, Looper said:

No, the problem is the long diagonal crease from the upper mast partners to the clew.  this was the only photo i could quickly locate that showed it.  I believe this is what OP is referring to.

Isn't a layer of packing tape around the upper mast collar supposed to help with that?

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45 minutes ago, Looper said:

No, the problem is the long diagonal crease from the upper mast partners to the clew.  this was the only photo i could quickly locate that showed it.  I believe this is what OP is referring to.

That's a Laser speed crease. 

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Agree the pic is of a speed wrinkles. Usually a good thing in certain conditions and impacted by cunningham. But Hobie (who I think has experience Laser racing) was saying whatever he saw was slow so thought he was referring to something other than this.  Chasing our tail unless @Hobie Dogchimes in.

Speed wrinkles.jpg

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Which is why I was confused and looking at the green area. I ignored the overbend wrinkle that isn't unique to Laser. 

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39 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Isnt the patent on the new official sail supposed to address the wrinkle?? 

Yes. There is a specific reference to a luff patch which is claimed to reduce the diagonal wrinkling.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US8739721.pdf

Screen Shot 2017-08-05 at 3.23.48 PM.png

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13 hours ago, Wess said:

Agree the pic is of a speed wrinkles. Usually a good thing in certain conditions and impacted by cunningham. But Hobie (who I think has experience Laser racing) was saying whatever he saw was slow so thought he was referring to something other than this.  Chasing our tail unless @Hobie Dogchimes in.

Speed wrinkles.jpg

Different wrinkle. These are the old sail with a pronounced wrinkle coming right out of the mast joint. The Mark II wrinkle starts higher up the mast. I just got a Mark II and it looks way better in anything above 8knots. In the lighter stuff, and as H Dog said originally, there is a hard vertical crease at the luff, and you need to let the Cunningham right off. It is a better sail for sure and it will last longer by a bunch. But if you get a shitty start or miss the first shift the new sail won't help a bit. So mission accomplished.

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Oh - and I can't my new sail to look as ugly as the Green demon above. 

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On 8/5/2017 at 3:27 PM, tillerman said:

Yes. There is a specific reference to a luff patch which is claimed to reduce the diagonal wrinkling.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US8739721.pdf

Screen Shot 2017-08-05 at 3.23.48 PM.png

Likely just semantics and for sure not relevant to Hobie Dog's question, but in patents there are specific "claims."  Could be wrong (welcome correction) but I don't recall that being one of the actual 8 (?) claims of the patent.  Its just background language IIRC.  But we are far from the more relevant point:

1.) Diagonal wrinkles generally equally speed wrinkle and can be fast and desired in certain conditions.

2.) Vertical wrinkle just behind and parallel to luff generally not desired and is slow. 

And finally, when sailing in big fleets of Lasers that can be found anywhere and everywhere its always easy to find out what is fast and what is not and how to fix it!

:D

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17 minutes ago, Wess said:

Likely just semantics and for sure not relevant to Hobie Dog's question, but in patents there are specific "claims."  Could be wrong (welcome correction) but I don't recall that being one of the actual 8 (?) claims of the patent.  Its just background language IIRC.  

:D

The luff patch is part of claim 1 and is also referenced in claims 7 and 8.  
But I agree with your main point. Speed wrinkles are fast. Don't worry about them.

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Yea, thanks. Sorry I was not clear.  Luff patch yes, but my comment was w/ regards reducing wrinkles as a specific claim which I didn't think was claimed.  But this is a tangential rabbit hole.  I don't see much value in the patent regardless and the slew of generic mark II sails sort of points to that as well.

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10 minutes ago, Wess said:

 But this is a tangential rabbit hole.  I don't see much value in the patent regardless and the slew of generic mark II sails sort of points to that as well.

 

 

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2 hours ago, torrid said:

The question would be if the Intensity MkII sail includes the luff patch.

it does not.

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On 7/27/2017 at 11:34 AM, BlatantEcho said:

Intensity builds garbage products for cheap, what exactly did you expect from them?

This is the same company that brought you the 'Tyvek boat cover'.  
What a disaster that was....
No one should be surprised.

 

Want quality? Buy quality.  My dad taught me long ago, you can get 'cheap' or 'good' but not both!

The Tyvek deck cover was advertised and described as a regatta temporary cover.  It performed that function very well for only $49.99.  We no longer sell them but not sure how you can criticize it for that function. Considering we also have a lifetime guaranty on our products I am not sure how you can call our products garbage. Unless of course you are one of our competitors or shilling for them. Then that makes perfect sense. 

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48 minutes ago, intensitysails said:

The Tyvek deck cover was advertised and described as a regatta temporary cover.  It performed that function very well for only $49.99.  We no longer sell them but not sure how you can criticize it for that function. Considering we also have a lifetime guaranty on our products I am not sure how you can call our products garbage. Unless of course you are one of our competitors or shilling for them. Then that makes perfect sense. 

The Tyvek deck cover did its job as a temporary regatta cover and was fit for the purpose. I have had other products from Intensity Sails - Laser practice sails, Laser sail bag, Laser foil bag, Laser hiking strap etc. etc. and have friends with other Intensity products such as dollies - and have found them all to be very good quality, long-lasting and excellent value for money. I see almost as many Intensity Laser sails used in local racing around here as the (much more expensive) official class legal ones.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that the continuing popularity of Laser sailing at the local level has been largely as a result of the availability of affordable sails and other parts from Intensity Sails (and other similar suppliers.)

Screen+Shot+2012-05-02+at+9.26.59+AM.png
Newport - Laser fleet 413

 

 

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How pathetic it is that after over 40 years of testing and development, the Laser buikdersxare still supplying sails that at their very best look like improperly designed poorly manufactured wrinkled shit. 

The best and fastest set up should have no wrinkles or creases and should not flutter. 

Tge design can certainly be tweaked so wrinkled is the slow set up and smooth and pretty is fast. 

I hate excuses and defense of inadequate garbage 

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I too have to stand up in support of Intensity. I have their Laser foil bag which is very nicely made, works great, and was very reasonably priced. I also have one of their MK1 practice sails, along with probably half the local fleet, and have been very happy with it for the price. 

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On 8/11/2017 at 8:11 AM, intensitysails said:

The Tyvek deck cover was advertised and described as a regatta temporary cover.  It performed that function very well for only $49.99.  We no longer sell them but not sure how you can criticize it for that function. Considering we also have a lifetime guaranty on our products I am not sure how you can call our products garbage. Unless of course you are one of our competitors or shilling for them. Then that makes perfect sense. 

Lol, sure thing Jim.  I've been reading and posting on Sailing Anarchy for 10 years just waiting to troll you on this thread.

It was totally worth it... what a rush  :unsure: 

--
Why don't you sell those amazing covers anymore again?

I have an issue when people buy cheap junk from cheap retailers and lower the bar for all the rest of us sailors.
A $150 sail, no matter what you say, is going to be disposable garbage.

LaserPerformance might be the most poorly run and idiot marine company of the last 10 years, but that doesn't make cheap replica sails the cat's pajamas.
Cheap stuff for cheap sailors.  It's fine, but let's not claim their is quality in the product line....

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2 hours ago, BlatantEcho said:

I have an issue when people buy cheap junk from cheap retailers and lower the bar for all the rest of us sailors.
 

What's wrong with low bars?
 

 

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The MK II practice sail looks terrible. Even after several sessions it has the large crease. I also ripped out part of the Cunningham cringle last time I sailed. Definitely not worth buying unless it is improved.

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On 8/12/2017 at 3:37 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Lol, sure thing Jim.  I've been reading and posting on Sailing Anarchy for 10 years just waiting to troll you on this thread.

It was totally worth it... what a rush 


A $150 sail, no matter what you say, is going to be disposable garbage.

LaserPerformance be the most poorly run and idiot marine company of the last 10 years. 
It's fine, but let's not claim their is quality in the product line....

Have you run comparison tests between the intensity sails and the monopoly builder supplied sails?

or

Are you just blathering ignorantly??

 

please note: I haven't run comparison tests with a sufficiently large sample to claim I know anything either 

Having said that, our local Wednesday night fleet is relatively active and has many ssilirscrith OVER 30 years EACH racing Lasers with various renditions of sails supplied by the monopoly builder, local sailmakers, and Intensity. 

The general (post race discussions over dinner) consensus is, the Intensity sails bought in the last few years sail and last about as well or maybe better than the monopoly builder's product.

 No one  here is sailing regularly with the new monopoly builder Radial cut Laser sail. 

 

 

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On 8/12/2017 at 4:37 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Lol, sure thing Jim.  I've been reading and posting on Sailing Anarchy for 10 years just waiting to troll you on this thread.

It was totally worth it... what a rush  :unsure: 

--
Why don't you sell those amazing covers anymore again?

I have an issue when people buy cheap junk from cheap retailers and lower the bar for all the rest of us sailors.
A $150 sail, no matter what you say, is going to be disposable garbage.

LaserPerformance might be the most poorly run and idiot marine company of the last 10 years, but that doesn't make cheap replica sails the cat's pajamas.
Cheap stuff for cheap sailors.  It's fine, but let's not claim their is quality in the product line....

Do you consider the official class legal Mk1 sails a high quality product? I have never met any laser sailor that considered them anything but grossly overpriced "disposable garbage"

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6 hours ago, torrid said:

The Intensity sail had done more for grass-roots Laser racing the last few years than anything I can think of.

+1

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6 hours ago, Wess said:

+1

Really?? Then we should seriously re-consider how we are using our funds. 

As a collective fleet, We are spending way more on the ILCA than Intensity sails.  

 

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Gouv - You run the extremes so I never know how to take your posts.  There are lots of areas we agree especially the support for grass roots sailing and making it more affordable, including in the Laser class.  So there is no judgment intended or implied with my following statement which I think is true... "the majority of club level grass root Laser sailors don't join the class while the majority of high level Laser sailor (lets say consistent regional championship sailors and above) do and this has been the case for a long long time including back in days of your involvement."  The class is therefore more aligned with the interest of those higher level sailors.  I don't have a problem with that.  The class should first and foremost supports its paying members and their interests.  So while I would like to see more ILCA actions that benefit grass roots sailing, I can understand their bread is buttered on the other side. 

So yea, sure I think that generic parts and generic sails have done more from grass roots laser sailing than ILCA.  Don't know why my agreeing that or supporting that notion would surprise you.  The prevalence of used boats and generic sails at the club level is pretty high no?  But in so thinking I equally don't have to think that the ILCA is the evil empire. 

Can't I like and agree both? 

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3 hours ago, Wess said:

Gouv - You run the extremes so I never know how to take your posts.  There are lots of areas we agree especially the support for grass roots sailing and making it more affordable, including in the Laser class. 

Scotts do a lot for the grass roots too.
 

 

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The folks who sail regional and national level regattas have always been forced to pay to play.

more recently the various organizations have "unionized" against the sailiors and made it difficult to compete without looming multiple "union member" organizations.

( I am being nice. I could have used Mafia) 

 

it used to be "responsible sailors" joined the class and mooches didn't. 

Folks who performed RC duty or ran events always were class members despite the fact many did not even own Lasers. 

The demographics have changed as the class has become more of an organization whose orimary function is to provide employment for a management team and a publishing company.

As the ILCA and monopoly builder no longer do anything to support local sailing, local sailors are no longer feeling obligated to fund  the ILCA or buy exclusively from the monopoly builder. 

The local sailing scene is still there. The Organization is not interested. 

 

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13 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The folks who sail regional and national level regattas have always been forced to pay to play.

more recently the various organizations have "unionized" against the sailiors and made it difficult to compete without looming multiple "union member" organizations.

( I am being nice. I could have used Mafia) 

 

it used to be "responsible sailors" joined the class and mooches didn't. 

Folks who performed RC duty or ran events always were class members despite the fact many did not even own Lasers. 

The demographics have changed as the class has become more of an organization whose orimary function is to provide employment for a management team and a publishing company.

As the ILCA and monopoly builder no longer do anything to support local sailing, local sailors are no longer feeling obligated to fund  the ILCA or buy exclusively from the monopoly builder. 

The local sailing scene is still there. The Organization is not interested. 

 

Gouv - See, we agree again for the most part and your music selections have improved as well.  Not sure what the heck happened to @tillermanand his "music."  Commercials?!  Yikes!!!

Will just add that I don't know its fair to say the "organization is not interested."  They may or may not be.  I can't say for sure and doubt you (or anyone else) could either.  Its not really been put to them in any formal way as an option.  Its likely fair to observe that the class was originally built on and still to this day remains rooted to this idea not just of OD but of SMOD.  Even you have spoken/written in favor of that concept... which I think you can argue (and if you thought long and hard about it would agree) is contrary to the interest of grass roots, club level, accessible, more affordable "laser" racing (note the lower case "l").  But that concept would be 100% opposed to the idea of generic sails.  Or generic boats.  Both of which I am supportive of and think of as positive developments for the grass rots laser sailor but obviously the class is obligated to take a formal view opposing that.  And I understand and agree why they must and do and can even agree their position (as being in the best interests of their paying class members).

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I hope the laser class figures things out soon. 

I raced with Tillerman at his club and both the Aero and Sunfish classes outnumbered the lasers by at least 3:1 which is similar to my club. Our club is down to two lasers.

 

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Actually?? The Laser owner at the local level used to and somewhat still enjoys a great "affordability" benefit from the "anal one design or screw you" ILCA rules.

Lasers hold their value.

no other thirty year old singlehanded production boat in its "class" holds value at all. If you can find a US1, Copperhead, Banshee, Force 5, Cyclone, Zuma, Barnett 1400, Contender, Dagger, or similar .,, odds are you can have it for $100. 

I didn't include the Sunfish because it holds value in a few areas.

it is nice to know you can sell it if you change your mind or life situation.

when the North American game was well managed by a supportive association and an well run game supporting builder , the extra money for a monopoly sail was way more than returned home in boat resale value 

 

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On August 15, 2017 at 8:06 AM, Wess said:

Gouv - See, we agree again for the most part and your music selections have improved as well.  Not sure what the heck happened to @tillermanand his "music."  Commercials?!  Yikes!!!

 

This thread was getting stale with all the music videos. I thought some fertilizer might be needed.

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On 8/15/2017 at 10:07 AM, Gouvernail said:

no other thirty year old singlehanded production boat in its "class" holds value at all. If you can find a US1, Copperhead, Banshee, Force 5, Cyclone, Zuma, Barnett 1400, Contender, Dagger, or similar .,, odds are you can have it for $100. 

speaking of which, im looking for an old dinghy in south florida... can anybody help me out???

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19 minutes ago, mike98gp said:

speaking of which, im looking for an old dinghy in south florida... can anybody help me out???

Lots of old Dinghies there and more moving in every winter 

try Craigslist 

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1 hour ago, mike98gp said:

speaking of which, im looking for an old dinghy in south florida... can anybody help me out???

front_design_d9110784-25eb-4f77-a338-b34

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2 hours ago, mike98gp said:

speaking of which, im looking for an old dinghy in south florida... can anybody help me out???

 

 

 

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On 8/12/2017 at 4:37 PM, BlatantEcho said:

Lol, sure thing Jim.  I've been reading and posting on Sailing Anarchy for 10 years just waiting to troll you on this thread.

It was totally worth it... what a rush  :unsure: 

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Why don't you sell those amazing covers anymore again?

I have an issue when people buy cheap junk from cheap retailers and lower the bar for all the rest of us sailors.
A $150 sail, no matter what you say, is going to be disposable garbage.

LaserPerformance might be the most poorly run and idiot marine company of the last 10 years, but that doesn't make cheap replica sails the cat's pajamas.
Cheap stuff for cheap sailors.  It's fine, but let's not claim their is quality in the product line....

Are you trying to say that Price = Quality?

Based on what experience? These are sails!! We use the identical fabric on our MkII replica from the same mill and other than the patented luff it is identical and at the minimum equal in quality.  Lifetime guaranteed for workmanship and materials. Are theirs?

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On 8/13/2017 at 10:24 PM, mike98gp said:

Do you consider the official class legal Mk1 sails a high quality product? I have never met any laser sailor that considered them anything but grossly overpriced "disposable garbage"

 

On 9/7/2017 at 2:17 PM, intensitysails said:

Are you trying to say that Price = Quality?

Based on what experience? These are sails!! We use the identical fabric on our MkII replica from the same mill and other than the patented luff it is identical and at the minimum equal in quality.  Lifetime guaranteed for workmanship and materials. Are theirs?

I agree that the natural design of the Laser sails essentially reduces the product to "disposable garbage".  What Intensity has done for Laser sailing is reduce the sail from "grossly overpriced" to "appropriately priced".  I place orders from Intensity Sails several times a year for both my Laser (including MK1 sails, MK2 sails, rigging, accessories, hiking straps, etc) and now my daughter's Optimist (practice sail, blade bag, float bags).  Everything i have ordered has either met or exceeded my expectations.  On the behalf of budget conscious sailors everywhere, thank you Intensity for making "grass roots" sailing more affordable.

USA 209387

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Our club has Intensity sails on 40% of the fleets. That includes the DS1 race fleet as well as Sunfish and Lasers. They have been excellent so far. I'll give them an A+ for quality.

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Just read through this whole thread.... I've been using a new MKII Class sail this year.  I've loved it.  No wrinkle issues at all.  It's been fast in light air and windy conditions.  The shape still looks great, but the "adjustable" battens are just about done being "adjustable" after this season.  So, I'll get a new one for next year just like with the old sail...

I've used an Intensity sail in the past.  The foot would "motorboat" on me going upwind in breeze.  Intensity took it back and gave me a new one after a year of use!  That's great customer service IMHO.  However, I stopped using the Intensity sails because they do trim a little different and I do enough class events I didn't want to have to re-learn my class sail every time.  Just a personal thing. 

Due to our class builder sucking it on parts management, paying bills or whatever the hell their problems are I have no issues with people using non-class legal items if it gets them out on the race course for events that you don't have to measure in for. That's just my opinion.

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On 8/14/2017 at 0:49 AM, torrid said:

The Intensity non-class legal sail had done more for grass-roots Laser racing the last few years than anything I can think of.

+1  Especially junior sailing.  Asking families to shell out $600 to put a new sail on their kids club-owned or used laser is asinine.  145$ sail means more kids.  Kids= a growing class.   

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Well boys, It looks like I have finally lost my mind. 

I just setup the Laser I always wanted, except it's not a Laser. I'm running a full Laser rig on a Zuma hull and it sails great. Some things I like about it are the double hull with cockpit drain in the transom that actually works. It feels like I have a little more free-board to keep waves out of the boat. I also like the big wide top deck that makes it comfortable to hike way out.

I highly recommend this setup to any of you cheap bastards who have the mast step rip out of your 30 yr old Lasers.

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