Sea Breeze 74

Goodbye Russell ... ?

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According to the vice commodore of the Manly Sailing Club, Russell  " ... said he's done with the America's Cup so has time and he's also said he needs something else to get his teeth into."

Which is being the commodore of course. This indicates he's gone from OR, but is it really the last we've seen of him at the AC?

Herald article below.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11895802

 

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If a team beats ETNZ in AC36 and then that team offers him a role as their AC37 Defender visionary? Maybe he will come back into AC circles but that's a looong way off!

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RC has consistently spent his own time and money supporting youth programs in NZ. Especially after AC cycles when he has more time. 

 

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

If a team beats ETNZ in AC36 and then that team offers him a role as their AC37 Defender visionary? Maybe he will come back into AC circles but that's a looong way off!

There are likely teams out there that would like to procure his services for THIS AC.

Certainly ETNZ being the defender isn't an impediment to his participation.

If he sits this one out it will be because nobody can afford him or he just aint interested any more.

Either way, Coutts leaving the AC permanently can only be a good thing IMO.

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1 hour ago, jaysper said:

There are likely teams out there that would like to procure his services for THIS AC.

Certainly ETNZ being the defender isn't an impediment to his participation.

If he sits this one out it will be because nobody can afford him or he just aint interested any more.

Either way, Coutts leaving the AC permanently can only be a good thing IMO.

He was part of a losing team so would you want him? NZ won this easily without him so why couldn't someone else? I think he's done. The use by date has expired IMO

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Just now, terrafirma said:

He was part of a losing team so would you want him? NZ won this easily without him so why couldn't someone else? I think he's done. The use by date has expired IMO

I think he's done with the AC .... for now anyway. 

I'm not a fan but I do believe he's done an incredible amount for the sport and most recently for youth sailing. Manly Sailing Club will be stoked as he will be a huge boost for them.

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49 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

He was part of a losing team so would you want him? NZ won this easily without him so why couldn't someone else? I think he's done. The use by date has expired IMO

He won FIVE ACs and as much as I detest the little snake, there is no denying he is the single most successful person in AC history.

Hate the little wanker all you want but be honest about his abilities.

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11 hours ago, terrafirma said:

He was part of a losing team so would you want him? NZ won this easily without him so why couldn't someone else? I think he's done. The use by date has expired IMO

 

If he should be out because he lost the team, then it's time to give the Cup to NZ for perpetuity...

All the other teams lost, so none of them should be selected in a future defender team.

Even if he has been a dick (to keep it PC), the guy is/was a great sailor and team manager. A team might be interested by his service if they can afford it and accept his personality.

 

DDA

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Would be good to see him helm some smaller projects of his own and surely rack up some more World Championships. Can't think of a better keelboat helmsman. It would be cool to see him out enjoying sailing again and making any fleet better. 

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Anyone really think he is done with the AC?  Especially going out a loser to GD.  

I know nothing of the club he is supposedly going to be commodore of.  Does it have the stature to participate in the AC?   Mercury Bay was a car on a beach so I guess stature isn't a factor, I just can't see RC going out like he did for AC36.

Much like he did to EB, he now has a score to settle with GD.  And being a commodore of a NZ sailing club provides all types of possibilities like trying to force a defender series for this cycle.   Something to put the stones to GD and the RNZYS. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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25 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Anyone really think he is done with the AC?  Especially going out a loser to GD.  

I know nothing of the club he is supposedly going to be commodore of.  Does it have the stature to participate in the AC?   Mercury Bay was a car on a beach so I guess stature isn't a factor, I just can't see RC going out like he did for AC36.

Much like he did to EB, he now has a score to settle with GD.  And being a commodore of a NZ sailing club provides all types of possibilities like trying to force a defender series for this cycle.   Something to put the stones to GD and the RNZYS. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

That would be fun! :D

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1 hour ago, Rennmaus said:

That would be fun! :D

It would definitely spice things up, but I would also think it a positive for a NZ defense.  Especially if there is a nationality clause.  Two NZ staffed teams fighting for a shot at defending for the Motherland?  How could any true AC fan not want that?

WetHog  :ph34r:

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3 hours ago, WetHog said:

Anyone really think he is done with the AC?  Especially going out a loser to GD.  

I know nothing of the club he is supposedly going to be commodore of.  Does it have the stature to participate in the AC?   Mercury Bay was a car on a beach so I guess stature isn't a factor, I just can't see RC going out like he did for AC36.

Much like he did to EB, he now has a score to settle with GD.  And being a commodore of a NZ sailing club provides all types of possibilities like trying to force a defender series for this cycle.   Something to put the stones to GD and the RNZYS. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Haha, somehow I don't think the Manly Sailing Club has the resources to put a challenge together .... unless the class rule turns out to be foiling BIC's in which case they'll be real contenders!

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16 minutes ago, Sea Breeze 74 said:

Haha, somehow I don't think the Manly Sailing Club has the resources to put a challenge together .... unless the class rule turns out to be foiling BIC's in which case they'll be real contenders!

Manly can be the vehicle for a "sponsor" wanting to participate in any Defender Selection Series, but it would depend on whether RNZYS would even entertain one.

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6 hours ago, WetHog said:

Anyone really think he is done with the AC?  Especially going out a loser to GD.  

I know nothing of the club he is supposedly going to be commodore of.  Does it have the stature to participate in the AC?   Mercury Bay was a car on a beach so I guess stature isn't a factor, I just can't see RC going out like he did for AC36.

Much like he did to EB, he now has a score to settle with GD.  And being a commodore of a NZ sailing club provides all types of possibilities like trying to force a defender series for this cycle.   Something to put the stones to GD and the RNZYS. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

I actually think this is the perfect chance for him to leave the AC.

He's still a Kiwi and I think he has a genuine interest in what people in NZ think about him (otherwise he wouldn't get so upset about the NZ media all the time).

He has just lost the Cup back to NZ so for alot of Kiwi's that Alinghi / Oracle chapter is now a closed loop and a lot will have been forgiven.

If he genuinely wants to get back in Kiwi good books, now is probably as good an opportunity as he is going to get, the countries on a yachting high and doing a bunch of work with young sailors along side this will get him back into the public eye in a positive light, if he backs it up with a bit of I'm just another Kiwi support for the 2021 campaign who knows.

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24 minutes ago, Boybland said:

I actually think this is the perfect chance for him to leave the AC.

He's still a Kiwi and I think he has a genuine interest in what people in NZ think about him (otherwise he wouldn't get so upset about the NZ media all the time).

He has just lost the Cup back to NZ so for alot of Kiwi's that Alinghi / Oracle chapter is now a closed loop and a lot will have been forgiven.

If he genuinely wants to get back in Kiwi good books, now is probably as good an opportunity as he is going to get, the countries on a yachting high and doing a bunch of work with young sailors along side this will get him back into the public eye in a positive light, if he backs it up with a bit of I'm just another Kiwi support for the 2021 campaign who knows.

I tend to agree.

I don't for a moment agree with terrafirma that nobody would want him because he is clearly incredibly talented (even if I hate the little toss pot).

But, yeah. Hes in his 50s now, been there done that. It might be time from his perspective to hang up his boots so to speak.

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Pretty well organised Club by all accounts. You'd expect they could organise a decent centreboarder regatta, considering Harold Bennett is a Flag Officer of the club.

Doubt they have keel boats racing, since the nearest big boat harbour would be on the other side of the Peninsula at Gulf Harbour. Russell's influence will no doubt strengthen the Clubs reputation.

Definitely a legit club from which an alternative Defender could be sanctioned, but I doubt RNZYC will welcome that kind of interference. 

13076942_838699632902744_1975230878534099326_n.jpg

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2 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Pretty well organised Club by all accounts. You'd expect they could organise a decent centreboarder regatta, considering Harold Bennett is a Flag Officer of the club.

Doubt they have keel boats racing, since the nearest big boat harbour would be on the other side of the Peninsula at Gulf Harbour. Russell's influence will no doubt strengthen the Clubs reputation.

Definitely a legit club from which an alternative Defender could be sanctioned, but I doubt RNZYC will welcome that kind of interference. 

13076942_838699632902744_1975230878534099326_n.jpg

The only yacht club in New Zealand that can sanction a defense of the AC is the RNZYS period.  

If they choose the RNZYS may hold a series to select an alternative defender from their membership but they would have to be good to challenge ETNZ to make such a distraction worthwhile.

Manly YC or any other YC in New Zealand are irrelevant 

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The last two cups did not have a defender series and they were held in the USA (sort of)

NZ has the population of Louisiana and you expect a second defender?

It's not going to happen!

 

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24 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

The last two cups did not have a defender series and they were held in the USA (sort of)

NZ has the population of Louisiana and you expect a second defender?

It's not going to happen!

 

+1

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11 hours ago, WetHog said:

I know nothing of the club he is supposedly going to be commodore of.  Does it have the stature to participate in the AC?   Mercury Bay was a car on a beach so I guess stature isn't a factor,

Wethog. You should know the rules by now. Only foreign yatch clubs can challenge and the defender is a single club. The defending club may choose one of multiple teams to defend on their behalf but other yatch clubs have nothing to do with it.

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Since when was being a member of the club a real pre-requisite?  Plenty of "honorary members" represented the NYYC in days of yore

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People like the idiotic Jason from Wellington should just suck it up and leave Sir Russell alone. He's done more for NZ and NZ sailing than any of them can ever hope to achieve in 10 lifetimes. Sir Russell has made his mark on the world and he's back home sharing his experience and expertise. The fiasco of 2003 was more of a failure by TNZ - any other team would have beaten them.

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31 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Kiwis write/invent the cutest of imaginary rules lol!

There's nothing to stop RNZYS from making a rule that only RNZYS members are eligible to submit  an alternative defender - in theory. Reality is any NZ-based "alternative" challenger would be so far behind the 8-ball they might as well be in another galaxy.

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37 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Kiwis write/invent the cutest of imaginary rules lol!

The defender has sole discretion over other challengers by virtue of the protocol agreement with the CoR. If they have written it like that,  then that is how it will be.

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Just now, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Sounds like the Oracle line against any other USA challengers.

Larry had his reasons for declining the ADM Defender candidate aspirant. Pragmatism rules in NZ's case...

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4 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Ah but this is about a defender, not challenger? I bet they were lazy & could not dream anyone would dare to take on ETNZ, it is the club not Emirites that has the control.

Iirc it was written into the protocol the last 2 times they defended. 

Beside why would they writ a restriction on the number of challengers? 

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On 7/27/2017 at 2:01 AM, Miffy said:

RC has consistently spent his own time and money supporting youth programs in NZ. Especially after AC cycles when he has more time. 

 

Yes thats true and as much I dislike the guy he should be left in peace to help the kids on Manly yacht club. However I wish he would do one thing, which is stay out of the media. He has an amazing ability to say stupid things. 

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6 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Ah but this is about a defender, not challenger? I bet they were lazy & could not dream anyone would dare to take on ETNZ, it is the club not Emirites that has the control.

The RNZYS and its representative, ETNZ are the official defender. They already have an official CoR. Those two alone have sole discretion whether or not to accept another defender. Clubs can't just put a team together and say "even though I didn't win the Americas Cup, I want to be the defender" It is up to the defending yacht club, and its CoR to decide whether they want to have defender trials.

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2 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

There are a lot of cashed up Kiwis, if it goes back mono it invites dreamers & hangers on to get all loyal again, winged cats there is an encumbant with a huge advantage.

Monohulls will level the playing field a bit and may encourage someone with the resources and/or contacts to tap on the RNZYS window...

 

3 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

in ingrish?

You have to forgive Jason - too much synthetic cannabis imbibing 

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2 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The RNZYS and its representative, ETNZ are the official defender. They already have an official CoR. Those two alone have sole discretion whether or not to accept another defender. Clubs can't just put a team together and say "even though I didn't win the Americas Cup, I want to be the defender" It is up to the defending yacht club, and its CoR to decide whether they want to have defender trials.

The AC Defender in AC36 is RNZYS. They can decide on their own whether they want a Defender Series or not, without any deference to the CoR. The inclusion of any potential Defender Series in the Protocol (in AC34 & 35) was just a formality - any decisions on any DSS is the Defender's alone.

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Just now, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

In that case a consortium of RNZYC members, with an alternative to ETNZ, may have a look in?

Not a chance. That would be a bad, a REALLY bad look for the RNZYS, and a kick in the guts for ETNZ and the country. The RNZYS has backed Team NZ, and ETNZ since 87. There is no way they would go and back a consortium with a rogue defender syndicate. 

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Just now, sclarke said:

Not a chance. That would be a bad, a REALLY bad look for the RNZYS, and a kick in the guts for ETNZ and the country. The RNZYS has backed Team NZ, and ETNZ since 87. There is no way they would go and back a consortium with a rogue defender syndicate. 

Agree. It'll never happen in NZ - too small, not enough self-indulgent billionaire$..

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Just now, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Lol it may be a better look than going to the NYSC for a round or three of paperwork.

How on Earth would it go anywhere near the NYSC? 

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Just now, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

If i was an arogant Frenchie i would make an offer to a member with a 26 footer in the pens, that he would not refuse. :)

Except the Frenchies have even less money than anyone else in NZ :P

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59 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

... there is an encumbant with a huge advantage....

 

58 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

in ingrish?

mmm

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recumbant: third-person plural present active subjunctive of recumbo (Latin)

encumbant: no so mutsh

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11 hours ago, Boybland said:

I actually think this is the perfect chance for him to leave the AC.

He's still a Kiwi and I think he has a genuine interest in what people in NZ think about him (otherwise he wouldn't get so upset about the NZ media all the time).

He has just lost the Cup back to NZ so for alot of Kiwi's that Alinghi / Oracle chapter is now a closed loop and a lot will have been forgiven.

If he genuinely wants to get back in Kiwi good books, now is probably as good an opportunity as he is going to get, the countries on a yachting high and doing a bunch of work with young sailors along side this will get him back into the public eye in a positive light, if he backs it up with a bit of I'm just another Kiwi support for the 2021 campaign who knows.

 

^ This makes sense......

 

3 hours ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

Lol it may be a better look than going to the NYSC for a round or three of paperwork.

 

^.......this does not.

 

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1 hour ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

..... for the RNZYC.

for the what?

Always good to hear the opinion of an expert...... :(

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8 hours ago, southseasbill said:

Wethog. You should know the rules by now. Only foreign yatch clubs can challenge and the defender is a single club. The defending club may choose one of multiple teams to defend on their behalf but other yatch clubs have nothing to do with it.

I was implying that the club RC is going to be commodore of, Manly Sailing Club, has the cache to form a foundation of a defense syndicate.  Specifically, members with loot to foot the bill and members, or soon to be members, to fill the sailing team.  Sure said syndicate would be officially representing the RNZYS as Defender but it would be a Manly Sailing Club backed defender representing the RNZYS.  

Anyway, I know the rules.

Serious question to the Kiwi's on here, regardless if it is financially possible, would you want a defender trials?  I can't imagine why you wouldn't, and I don't understand why you guys don't form up and demand it, but I get the sense over the years I've spent on this site that the general consensus among Kiwi's is you would rather have all your resources pooled in one team when it comes to defending.  Challenging is a different situation, IMO. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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16 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

(Snip)

Manly YC or any other YC in New Zealand are irrelevant 

So long as RNZYS wants to keep it that way. Yes. And I imagine they do and certainly ETNZ would want to keep it that way.

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6 hours ago, WetHog said:

I was implying that the club RC is going to be commodore of, Manly Sailing Club, has the cache to form a foundation of a defense syndicate.  Specifically, members with loot to foot the bill and members, or soon to be members, to fill the sailing team.  Sure said syndicate would be officially representing the RNZYS as Defender but it would be a Manly Sailing Club backed defender representing the RNZYS.  

Anyway, I know the rules.

Serious question to the Kiwi's on here, regardless if it is financially possible, would you want a defender trials?  I can't imagine why you wouldn't, and I don't understand why you guys don't form up and demand it, but I get the sense over the years I've spent on this site that the general consensus among Kiwi's is you would rather have all your resources pooled in one team when it comes to defending.  Challenging is a different situation, IMO. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

Good question, Hoggie. It is certainly NOT proven that a Defender series makes for a stronger Defender in AC history. We've defended successfully in the past with a single Defender, so.....

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RC:

 

And now the end is near,
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I'll say it clear,
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain.

I've lived a life that's full,
I travelled each and every highway.
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets I've had a few,
But then again too few to mention.
I did what I had to do,
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each chartered course,
Each careful step along the by way.
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Yes,
There were times,
I'm sure you knew,
When I bit off more than I could chew.

But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up, and spit it out.
I faced it all, and I stood tall,
And did it my way.

I've loved, I've laughed, and cried,
I've had my fill, my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.

To think I did all that,
And may I say, not in a shy way.
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way.

For what is a man, what has he got,
If not himself, then he has not
To say the things he truly feels,
And not the words of one who kneels.

The record shows,
I took the blows
And did it my way.

Yes, it was my way.

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3 hours ago, Barnyb said:

RC:

 

And now the end is near,
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I'll say it clear,
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain.

I've lived a life that's full,
I travelled each and every highway.
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets I've had a few,
But then again too few to mention.
I did what I had to do,
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each chartered course,
Each careful step along the by way.
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Yes,
There were times,
I'm sure you knew,
When I bit off more than I could chew.

But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up, and spit it out.
I faced it all, and I stood tall,
And did it my way.

I've loved, I've laughed, and cried,
I've had my fill, my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.

To think I did all that,
And may I say, not in a shy way.
Oh no, oh no, not me
I did it my way.

For what is a man, what has he got,
If not himself, then he has not
To say the things he truly feels,
And not the words of one who kneels.

The record shows,
I took the blows
And did it my way.

Yes, it was my way.

That would make a great hit song, Barny. ;)

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57 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

That would make a great hit song, Barny. ;)

It's just a shame that his way involved being a total cock sucker.

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22 hours ago, ColinG said:

Since when was being a member of the club a real pre-requisite?  Plenty of "honorary members" represented the NYYC in days of yore

This issue was contested by Thomas Lawson a century ago.  Check out The Lawson History of The America's Cup.  

It makes for interesting reading.   Written after the first 50 years of the AC, the same controversies were going on then as now.

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i hope rc is out and away from anything regarding the america's cup for this incarnation.

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1 hour ago, Trovão said:

i hope rc is out and away from anything regarding the america's cup for this incarnation.

You can safely count on that..

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5 minutes ago, Indio said:

You can safely count on that..

Or not....

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24 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Or not....

I honestly don't see a role for Sir Russell in the RNZYS AC Defence. Leading another foreign Challenger would rake over old memories which at his age may not be something he'd want stirred up again. 

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28 minutes ago, KoW said:

Apparently he's at the Moth Worlds - recruiting talent for his next campaign? :ph34r:

Maybe a Silicon Valley self-indulgent billionaire might have a USD100-mil burning a hole in his handbag and fund a SDYC Challenge with Sir Russell heading it. I could see him heading BAR - especially if the AC36 yacht is a monohull.

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On 7/28/2017 at 4:15 PM, Sailbydate said:

Good question, Hoggie. It is certainly NOT proven that a Defender series makes for a stronger Defender in AC history. We've defended successfully in the past with a single Defender, so.....

Yes having a Defender trials in no way garuntees a successful defense but with NZ and its wealth of knowledge of all facets of the AC and the considerable depth of pure sailing talent I fail to see how a Defender series for AC36 would be anything but a positive.  

Especially when you consider all that talent could be tied up working to defend the Cup and not finding its way into Challengers for AC36 because of limited opportunities a one team defense would mean.  

Having said that, as, hopefully, a fan of a USA challenger deep down I hope their isn't a Defender series.  Makes the Challengers odds a bit better, IMO. ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

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On 28/07/2017 at 10:19 AM, Sailbydate said:

Pretty well organised Club by all accounts. You'd expect they could organise a decent centreboarder regatta, considering Harold Bennett is a Flag Officer of the club.

Doubt they have keel boats racing, since the nearest big boat harbour would be on the other side of the Peninsula at Gulf Harbour. Russell's influence will no doubt strengthen the Clubs reputation.

Definitely a legit club from which an alternative Defender could be sanctioned, but I doubt RNZYC will welcome that kind of interference. 

13076942_838699632902744_1975230878534099326_n.jpg

As a kid I used to collect cockles in Hobbs bay, so sad that it's gone now. The next cup should be in "P"s. The Weiti boating club (Arkles bay) and Manly could fight out a defender series with the Arkles boat going on to defend the cup for NZ.

 

 

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