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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
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bgytr

gotta love sanctuary cities

406 posts in this topic

http://www.kgw.com/news/woman-65-in-ne-portland-reports-sex-assault-break-in-and-car-burglary/459231264

"...According to court documents filed in March 2017, Martinez has a history of illegal entry into the United States. He has been a transient in the Portland area for more than a year and has been deported 20 times.

Martinez has at least five probation violations for re-entering the United States. His most recent removal was in November 2016, according to the March court documents.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) lodged an immigration detainer against Martinez, asking authorities to notify them before releasing Martinez to allow ICE to take him into custody. The Department of Homeland Security said a detainer was requested for Martinez in December 2016, but he was released into the community and authorities did not notify ICE.

Earlier this year, Multnomah County leaders and Sheriff Mike Reese wrote a letter to the community saying, "The Sheriff's Office does not hold people in county jails on ICE detainers or conduct any immigration enforcement actions."...

 

"...charges Martinez is facing include first-degree kidnapping, first-degree robbery (two counts), second-degree assault, first-degree sex abuse, first-degree sodomy and first-degree burglary.

Police said Martinez broke into the 65-year-old woman's home in the 1700 block of Northeast Irving Street Monday morning and physically and sexually assaulted a woman before stealing her 2011 silver Toyota Prius.

Court documents said Martinez entered the woman's bedroom through a window that she left open due to the heat. He spoke "calmly and quietly," ordering the woman onto the ground, where he tied her hands and feet, and blindfolded her.

Martinez threatened to kill the woman while he sexually assaulted her, according to the probable cause affidavit. Before he left, he punched her in the head several times and slammed her head onto a wood floor. ..."

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Why would ICE need to have anything to do with detaining him. There are plenty of crimes described other than illegal entry to the USA. 

This is a fundamental criminal / policing problem and has near zero to do with immigration 

yes... he came from another country. 

Yes... he lacks papers 

that doesn't seem to be n the  top  ten of  his crimes list any one of which should keep him detained without bail 

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Perhaps he meant the criminal aliens repeated re-entry.

Get a rope.

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The city had zero to do with that. 

The question remains... When we know the location of a sexual predator why would we fail to keep that person in our control?? Why release even an American citizen billionaire who we know grabs and molests women?? 

IMG_2670.PNG

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

The city had zero to do with that. 

The question remains... When we know the location of a sexual predator why would we fail to keep that person in our control?? Why release even an American citizen billionaire who we know grabs and molests women?? 

 

"Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) lodged an immigration detainer against Martinez, asking authorities to notify them before releasing Martinez to allow ICE to take him into custody. The Department of Homeland Security said a detainer was requested for Martinez in December 2016, but he was released into the community and authorities did not notify ICE.

Earlier this year, Multnomah County leaders and Sheriff Mike Reese wrote a letter to the community saying, "The Sheriff's Office does not hold people in county jails on ICE detainers or conduct any immigration enforcement actions."...

 

Pretty much sums it up eh?

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28 minutes ago, bgytr said:

"Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) lodged an immigration detainer against Martinez, asking authorities to notify them before releasing Martinez to allow ICE to take him into custody. The Department of Homeland Security said a detainer was requested for Martinez in December 2016, but he was released into the community and authorities did not notify ICE.

Earlier this year, Multnomah County leaders and Sheriff Mike Reese wrote a letter to the community saying, "The Sheriff's Office does not hold people in county jails on ICE detainers or conduct any immigration enforcement actions."...

 

Pretty much sums it up eh?

No... the immigration detainee is a silly thing for throwing good immigrants out rather than inviting them to stay.

on the other hand, this guy's list of real crimes should be readily available to all levels of law enforcement. 

His. Crimes include sneaking in multiple times. His  crimes also include shit for which people ought to be incarcerated. .

why the fuck was a multi time criminal released yet again?? 

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Got to agree with Gouv here. The guy didn't need to be held on immigration. He could have been held on other charges. This isn't a "sanctuary city" issue - it's a poor policing issue.

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Why would ICE need to have anything to do with detaining him. There are plenty of crimes described other than illegal entry to the USA. 

This is a fundamental criminal / policing problem and has near zero to do with immigration 

yes... he came from another country. 

Yes... he lacks papers 

that doesn't seem to be n the  top  ten of  his crimes list any one of which should keep him detained without bail 

One way to keep the guy from raping and killing women.  Hold him forever in a deep pit in the middle of the desert.

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Do the Feds reimburse the locals for the cost of lockup and referral?  Stites Rites are good. Sometimes

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21 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Got to agree with Gouv here. The guy didn't need to be held on immigration. He could have been held on other charges. This isn't a "sanctuary city" issue - it's a poor policing issue.

1

What charges were they? 

ICE could should have been notified prior to release. What prevented the sheriff's off ice notifying ICE?

1 hour ago, bgytr said:

Earlier this year, Multnomah County leaders and Sheriff Mike Reese wrote a letter to the community saying, "The Sheriff's Office does not hold people in county jails on ICE detainers or conduct any immigration enforcement actions."...

 

OMG! What's this??!?

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18 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Do the Feds reimburse the locals for the cost of lockup and referral?  Stites Rites are good. Sometimes

Does the city pay the victim's damages claim? Damn, you will try to defend the indefensible. 

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I don't see what is indefensible about it. Other people who commited crimes after release have been given a pass before, irrespective of their unknown immigration status. This is no different to that case. 

When you know how to predict the future to the certainty required by due process and innocent until proven guilty - you get back to us. 

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My point is as mentioned above:

Before prisoners are released judges set bail or decide none is necessary. Cops don't want to let their snared criminals go. The system says the lawyers and prosecutors get together in front of a judge first. Why wasn't the judge told this guy was involved in a gazillion other crimes? 

And

why are those who want better local cooperation with ICE leaving out mention of  a much bigger problem so it falsely and emotionally appears  to be part of the ICE / local government relationship 

 

The entire  OP reeks of deliberately mistreated news manipulated to infuriate.

 

I must wonder why Bugeater posted the slanted story with no comments about the absurdity of police and judges repeatedly releasing such  a well known criminal. 

 

Mighty strange 

Is someone manipulating the narrative?? 

Why would anyone do that ?

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1 hour ago, Bent Sailor said:

Got to agree with Gouv here. The guy didn't need to be held on immigration. He could have been held on other charges. This isn't a "sanctuary city" issue - it's a poor policing issue.

1

What charges? :rolleyes:

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55 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

My point is as mentioned above:

Before prisoners are released judges set bail or decide none is necessary. Cops don't want to let their snared criminals go. The system says the lawyers and prosecutors get together in front of a judge first. Why wasn't the judge told this guy was involved in a gazillion other crimes? 

And

why are those who want better local cooperation with ICE leaving out mention of  a much bigger problem so it falsely and emotionally appears  to be part of the ICE / local government relationship 

 

The entire  OP reeks of deliberately mistreated news manipulated to infuriate.

 

I must wonder why Bugeater posted the slanted story with no comments about the absurdity of police and judges repeatedly releasing such  a well known criminal. 

 

Mighty strange 

Is someone manipulating the narrative?? 

Why would anyone do that ?

Apparently ICE has no relationship with the local enforcement or judiciary there, and local law enforcement has blatantly taken the stance of non cooperation with ICE. 

Perhaps if the local enforcement agency decided to communicate instead of deliberately snub ICE, a 65 yr old woman might not have been assaulted and robbed in her own house.

It was reported on a local news tv channel and I just posted some sentences from the original article.  If that station has a history of slanted reporting or misinformation, I don't know about it.  As far as blame, feel free to assign it wherever you wish.  

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Cool!! Thanks for the permission !!! 

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7 hours ago, bgytr said:

Martinez threatened to kill the woman while he sexually assaulted her, according to the probable cause affidavit. Before he left, he punched her in the head several times and slammed her head onto a wood floor. ..."

 

Even if he had murdered her it's not the job of immigration and they did the right thing by releasing him back into the community. Hat's off for the  Multnomah County leaders and Sheriff Mike Reese. They are true American heroes. 

articleLarge.jpg

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You started out making sense then went full retard. 

The assault is a local matter and local

laws handle it. 

There was no reason for INS to be involved other than to say,"We will be there to pick him up if and when the scumbag ever gets a parole hearing."

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Got to agree with Gouv here. The guy didn't need to be held on immigration. He could have been held on other charges. This isn't a "sanctuary city" issue - it's a poor policing issue.

You and govy are missing the fucking point.  As usual.  It is both a poor policing issue as well as a sanctuary city issue.  Govy is right that the sneaking in crime is pretty low on the list of his offenses.  BUT IT IS STILL ON THE LIST!!  If he had been held accountable for his other crimes, we would not be having this conversation.  But he wasn't and was released (poor policing and other legal system issues most likely).  But that doesn't mean that his lesser crimes are not relevant.  If he wasn't going to be held or prosecuted for his top of the list crimes, then work your way down the list until you get to one that will actually get the shitbag off the street.  ICE was not only happy to take him into custody, they REQUESTED IT!  

How was it any skin off the local LEO's nose for them to turn him over when they chose not to deal with him?  THAT is where the sanctuary city BS comes into play.  I can see local and state LEO's saying that enforcing immigration policy is not their job in the sense of actively hunting these illegals down, arresting them and determining their legal status.  I get that.  But once they have them in custody on an unrelated charge, why do they care if the guy is carted off by ICE and deported??  I am simply at a loss as to how to wrap my mind around deliberately looking the other way when they have someone in custody they know to be an illegal alien......  fuck!

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3 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

I don't see what is indefensible about it. Other people who commited crimes after release have been given a pass before, irrespective of their unknown immigration status. This is no different to that case. 

When you know how to predict the future to the certainty required by due process and innocent until proven guilty - you get back to us. 

It has nothing to do with predicting the future.  Yes, some people who have allegedly committed crimes have been allowed to walk.  But as I already said, the illegal alien part is STILL on the list of crimes.  Why would they not work their way down the list of offenses before releasing them?

For example, a perp is picked up and arrested for armed robbery.  That perp is then run through the system to see if there are any other outstanding crimes or warrants.  They then find that they can't hold said shitbag for the armed robbery charge due to lack of evidence or whatever.  But after running his name through the criminal database, they see that he was also wanted for burglary, weapons charges, and misdemeanor drug dealing and possession.  The cops would typically work their way down the list of offenses until they got to one they could make work.  Why would sneaking into the fucking country be any less of an offense than selling some pot?  If the shitbag is not in the country in the first place - then none of the above crimes ever happened.  

Oh and BTW - he was already deported 20 fucking times!!!  Do you think maybe the Portland cops might think to themselves..... "Hmmmm, this is not your typical HS valedictorian mexican kid who has come to the country and wants to make something good of themselves.  Maybe the 21st time is the final straw."

Just sayin 

 

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19 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Oh and BTW - he was already deported 20 fucking times!!!  Do you think maybe the Portland cops might think to themselves..... "Hmmmm, this is not your typical HS valedictorian mexican kid who has come to the country and wants to make something good of themselves.  Maybe the 21st time is the final straw."

After the first few times, I'd start to think this deporting thing really isn't working for this guy and there's no reason to think it will work next time we try it.

Maybe the 21st would be the charm, but I doubt it.

 

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1 hour ago, Gouvernail said:

You started out making sense then went full retard. 

The assault is a local matter and local

laws handle it. 

There was no reason for INS to be involved other than to say,"We will be there to pick him up if and when the scumbag ever gets a parole hearing."

 

 

Isn't that all ICE wanted, to be notified if he was to be released so they could pick him up on his immigration violation. Portland refuses to cooperate because, liberal as it is, it favors illegal immigration and shelters illegals.

And then you blame the Russians when Trump beats Hillary.

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Yes, I know what you think is the point, Jeffie. But all your puff and blow doesn't change the fact that he was released due to poor policing. If they had been good police and done their job regarding the man, irrespective of ICE, he'd not have been released regardless of the sanctuary city policy.

This is not the example you're looking for.

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13 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Yes, I know what you think is the point, Jeffie. But all your puff and blow doesn't change the fact that he was released due to poor policing. If they had been good police and done their job regarding the man, irrespective of ICE, he'd not have been released regardless of the sanctuary city policy.

This is not the example you're looking for.

Responsible policing just might include checking federal notices from ice instead of ignoring them as a matter of police policy, dontcha think?  Yes itsa a huge fuckup of policing to jab at current immigration laws instead of enforcing them to curry political favor and votes.  And regular citizens are paying the price by getting robbed, beaten, and sexually assaulted, etc.

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23 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Yes, I know what you think is the point, Jeffie. But all your puff and blow doesn't change the fact that he was released due to poor policing. If they had been good police and done their job regarding the man, irrespective of ICE, he'd not have been released regardless of the sanctuary city policy.

This is not the example you're looking for.

It looks like all prior arrests and deportations weren't even presented or considered at all in court when deciding on bail.  That would have looked too much like being not acting sancturarily enough to suit the political climate.

Right and wrong are completely different conceptes than legal and illegal.

 

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1 hour ago, bgytr said:

Responsible policing just might include checking federal notices from ice instead of ignoring them as a matter of police policy, dontcha think?  Yes itsa a huge fuckup of policing to jab at current immigration laws instead of enforcing them to curry political favor and votes.  And regular citizens are paying the price by getting robbed, beaten, and sexually assaulted, etc.

Actually, no - state police are paid to police state laws. If the federal government wants them to be responsible for federal laws, it is the federal governments responsibility to pay for it. I don't consider it anymore the state's responsibility to deal with federal issues without funding than I consider it the meter-maid's responsibility to check every license plate to see if it's a stolen vehicle. 

No matter how much you guys want to blame 'sanctuary city' policy for this one - it's not the issue. This is just another attempt to lay the blame for poor police work at the feet of unrelated immigration policy. You need an issue clean from a shoddy prosecution and slap-dash policing to do what you're trying to do. It's not the fault of sanctuary city policy his previous criminal acts weren't brought before the court. 

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10 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Actually, no - state police are paid to police state laws. If the federal government wants them to be responsible for federal laws, it is the federal governments responsibility to pay for it. I don't consider it anymore the state's responsibility to deal with federal issues without funding than I consider it the meter-maid's responsibility to check every license plate to see if it's a stolen vehicle. 

No matter how much you guys want to blame 'sanctuary city' policy for this one - it's not the issue. This is just another attempt to lay the blame for poor police work at the feet of unrelated immigration policy. You need an issue clean from a shoddy prosecution and slap-dash policing to do what you're trying to do. It's not the fault of sanctuary city policy his previous criminal acts weren't brought before the court. 

The police arrested the guy.  Stop blaming them for letting him go. 

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

The police arrested the guy.  Stop blaming them for letting him go. 

I imagine if all there was to "policing" was arresting a person, that would have a little more punch. 

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2 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

I imagine if all there was to "policing" was arresting a person, that would have a little more punch. 

Judges aren't part of the police department and neither are the prosecutors or public defenders.

You can't play the pedant and not expect to get hoist by your own from time to time.

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2 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Judges aren't part of the police department and neither are the prosecutors or public defenders.

You can't play the pedant and not expect to get hoist by your own from time to time.

I never considered policing the laws of a state, nation, or other jurisdictional body to be the sole province of a police department. My dictionary agrees that supervising the operation, execution, or administration of to prevent or detect and prosecute violations of rules and regulations is not exclusive to a police department. Yours might differ.

Perhaps you should pull that petard out of your ass before you hurt yourself ;)

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It seemed clear that you could tell the difference.  Because you drew a line between police and prosecution in the post I responded to.

... Actually, no - state police are paid to police state laws.

... shoddy prosecution and slap-dash policing ...

 

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No, I used repetition to make a point. There is nothing in my post that states that policing and prosecution are exclusive. That's just down to your shoddy misinterpretation and/or deliberate misrepresentation. Both are on you, not my post.

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Sanctuary cities are thumbing their noses at ICE and this poor woman paid the price.  It was not shoddy police work. They caught him several times  prior to the July 24 arrest.  It was the judges and prosecutors that failed society.  

Quote

Martinez's criminal record shows a felony conviction for burglary and three misdemeanor convictions for battery, theft, and obstructing a public officer. The court document also said he told investigators in March that he has a long history of using methamphetamine and was currently using on a daily basis.

 

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4 hours ago, Saorsa said:

It looks like all prior arrests and deportations weren't even presented or considered at all in court when deciding on bail.  That would have looked too much like being not acting sancturarily enough to suit the political climate.

Right and wrong are completely different conceptes than legal and illegal.

 

Yep!

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2 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Actually, no - state police are paid to police state laws. If the federal government wants them to be responsible for federal laws, it is the federal governments responsibility to pay for it. I don't consider it anymore the state's responsibility to deal with federal issues without funding than I consider it the meter-maid's responsibility to check every license plate to see if it's a stolen vehicle. 

No matter how much you guys want to blame 'sanctuary city' policy for this one - it's not the issue. This is just another attempt to lay the blame for poor police work at the feet of unrelated immigration policy. You need an issue clean from a shoddy prosecution and slap-dash policing to do what you're trying to do. It's not the fault of sanctuary city policy his previous criminal acts weren't brought before the court. 

JFC!  All ICE asked was to be notified when he was released.  Does it take an extraordinary amount of funding or time to make one goddamned phone call?  Its not like ICE was asking them to do anything out of the ordinary, hold him, charge him, prosecute him, or even go out and arrest him.  ICE wasn't asking them to do anything but make a phucking phone call.  

No, this is sanctuary city BS in a nutshell and is THE perfect example.  Liberal SJW'ers trump common phucking sense!

Tell me bently, in your land of unicorns and honey and perfect tolerance of  the undocumented - please tell the class what would happen to an immigrant who is in pusstrailia, overstays their visa, and is then caught by the Po-Leece on an unrelated crime?  Are they set free to wander the streets in freedom if for some reason the charges don't stick?

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19 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

JFC!  All ICE asked was to be notified when he was released.  Does it take an extraordinary amount of funding or time to make one goddamned phone call?  Its not like ICE was asking them to do anything out of the ordinary, hold him, charge him, prosecute him, or even go out and arrest him.  ICE wasn't asking them to do anything but make a phucking phone call.  

No, this is sanctuary city BS in a nutshell and is THE perfect example.  Liberal SJW'ers trump common phucking sense!

Tell me bently, in your land of unicorns and honey and perfect tolerance of  the undocumented - please tell the class what would happen to an immigrant who is in pusstrailia, overstays their visa, and is then caught by the Po-Leece on an unrelated crime?  Are they set free to wander the streets in freedom if for some reason the charges don't stick?

Bent once again shows his ignorance of America.  It was the county Sherrif that played the sanctuary game.  The state police were not involved.  As to cooperating with the Feds they have no problem asking the FBI to help if needed.  Same for the US Marshal service.  It's only ICE that they draw the line at. 

Funding my ass how much is a phone call? 

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3 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Actually, no - state police are paid to police state laws. If the federal government wants them to be responsible for federal laws, it is the federal governments responsibility to pay for it. I don't consider it anymore the state's responsibility to deal with federal issues without funding than I consider it the meter-maid's responsibility to check every license plate to see if it's a stolen vehicle. 

No matter how much you guys want to blame 'sanctuary city' policy for this one - it's not the issue. This is just another attempt to lay the blame for poor police work at the feet of unrelated immigration policy. You need an issue clean from a shoddy prosecution and slap-dash policing to do what you're trying to do. It's not the fault of sanctuary city policy his previous criminal acts weren't brought before the court. 

Ya cuz its such an onerous task to take 15 seconds to check the federal info to see if the guy you're booking is on a federal watch list.  Right. Fucking moron.

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4 hours ago, Saorsa said:

The police arrested the guy.  Stop blaming them for letting him go. 

Astute!!

The system for release  includes a prosecution team, defense lawyers, and a judge.

That team totally dropped the ball.

also

INS previously dropped the ball.

the penalties  for multiple illegal entry include jail time.  It is INS who let him go multiple times and caused the ENTIRE situation. 

 

 

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How about we take a page from sharia. Second time we deport you we count off your left foot.  Third time your right foot.   Should be easy to spot people with no feet trying to cross the border.   

That was Sarcasm for SV and his Elk. 

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34 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

How about we take a page from sharia. Second time we deport you we count off your left foot.  Third time your right foot.   Should be easy to spot people with no feet trying to cross the border.   

That was Sarcasm for SV and his Elk. 

its ok, we know you want Christian Shariah law. Ten Commandments, Under God, all that stuff.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

JFC!  All ICE asked was to be notified when he was released.

No. Not just when he was released. When every illegal immigrant is released. Which means checking every suspected criminal in processing for immigration status, whether or not it is required to process them for whatever else they were picked up for. 

 

2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Tell me bently, in your land of unicorns and honey and perfect tolerance of  the undocumented - please tell the class what would happen to an immigrant who is in pusstrailia, overstays their visa, and is then caught by the Po-Leece on an unrelated crime?  Are they set free to wander the streets in freedom if for some reason the charges don't stick?

State governments get funding from the federal government here for their assistance in policing federal crimes. Incomparable situation. Try again when the funding isn't an issue.

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8 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

How was it any skin off the local LEO's nose for them to turn him over when they chose not to deal with him?

Because it alienates all of the illegals in the area. Pretty easy to understand if you actually live in an area with illegals, apparently harder if you subsist on a steady diet of right wing outrage.

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Because it alienates all of the illegals in the area. Pretty easy to understand if you actually live in an area with illegals, apparently harder if you subsist on a steady diet of right wing outrage.

Yeah Jeff...It alienates the aliens.

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2 minutes ago, Dog said:

Yeah Jeff...It alienates the aliens.

As Uncooperative Tom Johnson pointed out- he was deported 20 times.  That's a failed policy.

Let 'em in and let 'em vote.  Easy enough to grant them citizenship when they turn up to register to vote. 

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25 minutes ago, Dog said:

Yeah Jeff...It alienates the aliens.

and they are of course not human beings to you and Jeff, so they deserve no policing.

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

How about we take a page from sharia. Second time we deport you we count off your left foot.  Third time your right foot.   Should be easy to spot people with no feet trying to cross the border.   

That was Sarcasm for SV and his Elk. 

Yep, we'd catch them before they got two feet.

 

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1 minute ago, Saorsa said:

Yep, we'd catch them before they got two feet.

 

I guess they could try and hop across the border. 

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Not a very handy solution 

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It would bring illegals to their knees 

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Illegals couldn't kick about being deported 

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Why should Illegals get cured by the government while so many citizens stillhave athlete's foot?? 

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4 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

Not a very handy solution 

Well hands would be deportation number 4 and 5.  Let's face it if we continued to the 20 deportations he would be a shell of his formal self. 

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This proposal is Very American. Scalp the uninvited immigrants!! 

 

( Yes! I do know Europeans taught the practice to the Indians) 

 

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2 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

No. Not just when he was released. When every illegal immigrant is released. Which means checking every suspected criminal in processing for immigration status, whether or not it is required to process them for whatever else they were picked up for. 

 

State governments get funding from the federal government here for their assistance in policing federal crimes. Incomparable situation. Try again when the funding isn't an issue.

 

Funding isn't the issue, policy is.

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4 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Well hands would be deportation number 4 and 5.  Let's face it if we continued to the 20 deportations he would be a shell of his formal self. 

Just a flesh wound

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At the risk of upsetting this little pissy party I might mention why cities have objected and become sanctuary cities. It is because otherwise the average beat or traffic cop is required to ask for papers showing that whoever they stop is here legally.

 

Papers Please.  I mean, what could possible go wrong.....     And of course the irony is the smaller government group is the one who wants it.  Smaller government, less intrusive but more powerful, well as long as it targets someone else.

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9 hours ago, Raz'r said:

its ok, we know you want Christian Shariah law. Ten Commandments, Under God, all that stuff.

Not really.  Too inconvenient.

American belief- Give me convenience or give me death.  

Like the song says-  

Kill kill kill kill the poor

Kill kill kill kill the poor

Kill kill kill kill kill the poor 

Tonight...

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19 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You started out making sense then went full retard. 

The assault is a local matter and local

laws handle it. 

There was no reason for INS to be involved other than to say,"We will be there to pick him up if and when the scumbag ever gets a parole hearing."

 

 

If he's not a citizen I guess he could disappear and no one would be the wiser.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

At the risk of upsetting this little pissy party I might mention why cities have objected and become sanctuary cities. It is because otherwise the average beat or traffic cop is required to ask for papers showing that whoever they stop is here legally.

 

Papers Please.  I mean, what could possible go wrong.....     And of course the irony is the smaller government group is the one who wants it.  Smaller government, less intrusive but more powerful, well as long as it targets someone else.

No that is absolutely not true!  Yeah AZ and AL tried to implement that and got slapped down.  All LEOs have to do is once they arrest someone and presumably book them and enter them into the "system", I assume it will come up with the fact that the person is not here legally.  At that point, they can alert ICE and tell them that they have an illegal alien in custody.  I'm betting that ICE even gets flagged and alerted when this person its the system even without the phone call.

THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR BEAT COPS TO ASK FOR PAPERS, even in non-sanctuary cities. 

I am not in anyway advocating that beat cops ask for papers or do sweeps to round up illegals.  The theory being that people in the community would then be less likely to cooperate with the po-po if they knew that just talking to them could get them deported.  But the sanctuary city thing has gone far beyond that remit.  I see no issue with a cop arresting someone for an unrelated offense - trafficking, burglary, assault, whatever - and then later discovering that the person they have in custody is here illegally.  AT that point, I think they have both a moral and legal responsibility to report that to the Federales and then let them take what ever action is required.  And the citizens in those immigrant communities shouldn't bitch about that practice.  Because lets say the cousin who got arrested for theft but was then later deported for being here illegally - well the rest of the community should understand that maybe cousin Jose shouldn't have broken into that house and been caught by the cops walking out with that big screen LCD.  That if they keep their noses clean, they don't have much to worry about from the local Po-Leece.

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18 hours ago, TMSAIL said:
Quote

Martinez's criminal record shows a felony conviction for burglary and three misdemeanor convictions for battery, theft, and obstructing a public officer. The court document also said he told investigators in March that he has a long history of using methamphetamine and was currently using on a daily basis.

 

On a daily basis the drug war is failing to prevent his addiction.

The burglary and all the border crossings probably have to do with the failed drug war, in addition to showing the failure of repeatedly deporting him.

So much big govt fail to go around in this sad case.

I know! Let's deport him again and boost the drug war!

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9 hours ago, d'ranger said:

At the risk of upsetting this little pissy party I might mention why cities have objected and become sanctuary cities. It is because otherwise the average beat or traffic cop is required to ask for papers showing that whoever they stop is here legally.

 

Papers Please.  I mean, what could possible go wrong.....     And of course the irony is the smaller government group is the one who wants it.  Smaller government, less intrusive but more powerful, well as long as it targets someone else.

Oh please sanctuary cities were created so the local democratic pols could get and keep the Hispanic vote.  Pure and simple.   

There has never been a requirement for cops to ask for anything more a DL and registration in most cities.   Some add insurance card if the state has mandatory ins laws 

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2 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Oh please sanctuary cities were created so the local democratic pols could get and keep the Hispanic vote.  Pure and simple.   

There has never been a requirement for cops to ask for anything more a DL and registration in most cities.   Some add insurance card if the state has mandatory ins laws 

your ass must be getting sore, pulling all that data out....

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The truth comes out nice and smooth its when people make shit up. Like cops asking for citizen papers that my ass gets chaffed 

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

The truth comes out nice and smooth its when people make shit up. Like cops asking for citizen papers that my ass gets chaffed 

so - how would a cop know if I'm a citizen, without asking?

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7 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

The truth comes out nice and smooth its when people make shit up. Like cops asking for citizen papers that my ass gets chaffed 

your ass must be sore this morning:  from Salon

 

On Wednesday the Texas Senate voted in favor of the House’s version of Senate bill 4, which not only makes it illegal for Texas municipalities to serve as “sanctuary cities” but permits law enforcement officers to inquire about the immigration status of anyone they legally detain, according to a report by the Texas Tribune. This means that law enforcement officers don’t need to arrest someone before asking about their immigration status; they can do so during a matter as routine as a detainment.

 

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Thread drift...

back on the OP. 

The INS failed multiple times to follow the law and incarcerate the guy. 

The blsme for the crime spree is TOTALLY upon the INS and their failure to do their job.

the guy never would have been here at all if the INS had done its job.

the guy was released multiple times by the INS rather than held by the InS.

why are we discussing the sanctuary city program with redirect to this case?? 

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Just now, Gouvernail said:

 

why are we discussing the sanctuary city program with redirect to this case?? 

It's the rightie version of "Oh look, squirrel!"

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24 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

so - how would a cop know if I'm a citizen, without asking?

How would you enforce immigration laws?

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5 minutes ago, Dog said:

How would you enforce immigration laws?

I'd make sure the Feds have the right resources to meet the mission. If I wanted to outsource enforcement, I'd offer $s to organizations that could help.

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7 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I'd make sure the Feds have the right resources to meet the mission. If I wanted to outsource enforcement, I'd offer $s to organizations that could help.

Regardless of which law enforcement agency is involved, how would you have them verify compliance with immigration laws

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29 minutes ago, Dog said:

Regardless of which law enforcement agency is involved, how would you have them verify compliance with immigration laws

I'm a fan of national ID. You?

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Got dang!  This sanctuary city stuff is a slippery slope.  We gunna be overrun by illegals takin the wimmenfolk.  We best play it safe and stick with the guys representing the 1%.  

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19 aholes changed our lives forever and made flying a living hell.  Some people want to take the 1 ahole and do it to travel.  If you live in the southern border states and travel within a hundred miles of the border you get used to be stopped and showing proof you are legal.

Thanks very much.  And thanks for pushing that 1.6 BILLION to spend on the wall, now if only there way that it would stop the trucks bringing in trailer loads...............

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On 7/30/2017 at 11:21 PM, Gouvernail said:

Illegals couldn't kick about being deported 

This just illustrates the importance of always putting your best foot forward.....

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On 7/31/2017 at 11:24 AM, Dog said:

Regardless of which law enforcement agency is involved, how would you have them verify compliance with immigration laws

Set up border patrol and entry stations. 

Those who get past can live here under our rules and vote  if they go through the citizenship process. 

I don't have a problem with people who come here to work and build a better life. 

 

The guy on the OP should have been in jail for breaking a whole bunch of laws . 

iNS let him in repeatedly  and failed to follow their own rules when they kept simply throwing him out.

iNS is trying to complain about the city's refusal to help INS . Why? So INS can let him go AGAIN??? The outrage is directed at the wrong people. 

 

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On 7/31/2017 at 7:39 AM, d'ranger said:

At the risk of upsetting this little pissy party I might mention why cities have objected and become sanctuary cities. It is because otherwise the average beat or traffic cop is required to ask for papers showing that whoever they stop is here legally.

 

Papers Please.  I mean, what could possible go wrong.....     And of course the irony is the smaller government group is the one who wants it.  Smaller government, less intrusive but more powerful, well as long as it targets someone else.

Again this is a total lie.  Why do you continue to perpetuate a lie like this???  A non-sanctuary city is not required to ask for papers.  Again, as I understand this case in the OP, ICE called the sheriff and asked for the perp by name to be notified when he was released.  

You are attempting to paint this like cops in non-sanctuary cities are stopping every brown-skinned individual they see walking down the street.  This is not the case.  Do you think it is wrong if cops arrest someone on unrelated grounds and subsequently discover as they run them through the criminal database, which they would do anyway, that the person they have in custody is here in this country illegally???  I don't see how this "alienates" the alien community.  Again, if they were picked up for being brown, that's one thing.  But if they were arrested for some other crime (fill in the blank), why would that alienate the illegal community.  I would think they would think to themselves "serves that Puta right for doing something stoopid and gettin hisself arrested".  Unless we're talking about a community of latino gang-bangers - but then why would we care?

JFC.  Its like we are on two different planets sometimes.  I'm starting to understand the polarization in this country.  WHAT FUCKING PART OF "HE SNUCK INTO THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY OR OVERSTAYED HIS/HER VISA ILLEGALLY" do you people not get about illegal immigrants????????

If someone is here already illegally and then does the amazingly stupid act of committing another crime and gets caught and then gets found out they are an illegal alien - WTF right do they have to complain???  It would be like someone getting arrested for committing murder and then the cops finding out during the booking process the perp also committed a rape, assault or armed robbery in their past.  And then the perp crying, wait a minute - that's not fair to hammer me for a crime I committed a while back.  You think the DA is going to shed a tear for this shitbag in this case???

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On 7/31/2017 at 5:29 PM, TMSAIL said:

Oh please sanctuary cities were created so the local democratic pols could get and keep the Hispanic vote.  Pure and simple.   

There has never been a requirement for cops to ask for anything more a DL and registration in most cities.   Some add insurance card if the state has mandatory ins laws 

DING fucking DING!!!

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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/abbott-texas-sanctuary-city-ban

OK, I was not clear but according to the new law in Texas once you are detained you better be prepared to show your status.  Anyone besides Jeff think that LE can't detain anyone if they want to? Anyone else care about the slippery slope?  Feel free to carry one with the usual smugness of being all law and order conservative types.  Note: a key point is once arrested you can be deported without a conviction.

Also, note who the 2 people who oppose this are:

The legislation, which is set to take effect Sept. 1, also includes an amendment that allows police officers to ask someone about their immigration status when they are detained.

In an op-ed in the Dallas Morning News last month, David Pughes, the interim Dallas police chief, and Art Acevedo, the Houston police chief, wrote that they opposed the legislation known as SB4.

“We officers work extremely hard to build and maintain trust, communication, and stronger relationships with minority communities through community based policing and outreach programs,” they wrote. “Broad rules, such as those imposed by SB 4, that push local law enforcement to take a more active role in immigration enforcement will further strain the relationship between local law enforcement and these diverse communities.”

“Officers would start inquiring about the immigration status of every person they come in contact with, or worse, inquire about the immigration status of people based on their appearance,” they continued. “This will lead to distrust of police and less cooperation from members of the community. And it will foster the belief that people cannot seek assistance from police for fear of being subjected to an immigration status investigation.”

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39 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Again this is a total lie.  Why do you continue to perpetuate a lie like this???  A non-sanctuary city is not required to ask for papers.  Again, as I understand this case in the OP, ICE called the sheriff and asked for the perp by name to be notified when he was released.  

<snip>

 Let's stop right there .  The INS upon being informed that this person was once again in custody should have picked up the phone and it talked to the appropriate person at that police department and said , " Let's  not even get into how we screwed up and let this guy go so many times but if you take a look at his record which you should have in front of you, you will notice he has been accused and arrested fir multiple crimes and there is absolutely no way we want this guy back out on the street . If for any reason you guys decide that all the rapes and murders and robberies don't matter (which I can't imagine) you need to give me a call and I will lock the son of a bitch up for a trial about sneaking back into the country umpteen times."

 The simple fact is that call didn't happen. The simple fact is the cops didn't know that the guy had been accused of all those crimes. The simple fact is the INS let him go repeated times. This  isn't about sanctuary cities. This is about absolutely inept handling of police records  and piss poor communication between agencies. . Obviously the various local and state authorities and federal authorities are not eagerly sharing their information. There is absolutely no excuse for that failure to share. There is absolutely no excuse for the continuing failure to have a federal registry of all crimes.

 I am not generally a fan of big brother. On the other hand I find it totally inexcusable that teachers who are fired for fondling little girls private parts can go to another part of the country and get a job .

 Certainly it would be a large undertaking but computer is a very fast and all we should have to do is enter a person's Social Security number. Every day he was late for school and all  the murders for which he was convicted or accused should come up. 

 

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58 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

 Let's stop right there .  The INS upon being informed that this person was once again in custody should have picked up the phone and it talked to the appropriate person at that police department and said , " Let's  not even get into how we screwed up and let this guy go so many times but if you take a look at his record which you should have in front of you, you will notice he has been accused and arrested fir multiple crimes and there is absolutely no way we want this guy back out on the street . If for any reason you guys decide that all the rapes and murders and robberies don't matter (which I can't imagine) you need to give me a call and I will lock the son of a bitch up for a trial about sneaking back into the country umpteen times."

 The simple fact is that call didn't happen. The simple fact is the cops didn't know that the guy had been accused of all those crimes. The simple fact is the INS let him go repeated times. This  isn't about sanctuary cities. This is about absolutely inept handling of police records  and piss poor communication between agencies. . Obviously the various local and state authorities and federal authorities are not eagerly sharing their information. There is absolutely no excuse for that failure to share. There is absolutely no excuse for the continuing failure to have a federal registry of all crimes.

 I am not generally a fan of big brother. On the other hand I find it totally inexcusable that teachers who are fired for fondling little girls private parts can go to another part of the country and get a job .

 Certainly it would be a large undertaking but computer is a very fast and all we should have to do is enter a person's Social Security number. Every day he was late for school and all  the murders for which he was convicted or accused should come up. 

 

Dude...sanctuary cities do not cooperate with ICE. That's what makes them sanctuary cities.

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/abbott-texas-sanctuary-city-ban

OK, I was not clear but according to the new law in Texas once you are detained you better be prepared to show your status.  Anyone besides Jeff think that LE can't detain anyone if they want to? Anyone else care about the slippery slope?  Feel free to carry one with the usual smugness of being all law and order conservative types.  Note: a key point is once arrested you can be deported without a conviction.

Also, note who the 2 people who oppose this are:

The legislation, which is set to take effect Sept. 1, also includes an amendment that allows police officers to ask someone about their immigration status when they are detained.

In an op-ed in the Dallas Morning News last month, David Pughes, the interim Dallas police chief, and Art Acevedo, the Houston police chief, wrote that they opposed the legislation known as SB4.

“We officers work extremely hard to build and maintain trust, communication, and stronger relationships with minority communities through community based policing and outreach programs,” they wrote. “Broad rules, such as those imposed by SB 4, that push local law enforcement to take a more active role in immigration enforcement will further strain the relationship between local law enforcement and these diverse communities.”

“Officers would start inquiring about the immigration status of every person they come in contact with, or worse, inquire about the immigration status of people based on their appearance,” they continued. “This will lead to distrust of police and less cooperation from members of the community. And it will foster the belief that people cannot seek assistance from police for fear of being subjected to an immigration status investigation.”

How do you think immigration control ought to be handled, D?   I've heard you rail about and disagree with any enforcement approach that's in place or proffered, so how would YOU do it? 

 

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/abbott-texas-sanctuary-city-ban

OK, I was not clear but according to the new law in Texas once you are detained you better be prepared to show your status.  Anyone besides Jeff think that LE can't detain anyone if they want to? Anyone else care about the slippery slope?  Feel free to carry one with the usual smugness of being all law and order conservative types.  Note: a key point is once arrested you can be deported without a conviction.

Also, note who the 2 people who oppose this are:

The legislation, which is set to take effect Sept. 1, also includes an amendment that allows police officers to ask someone about their immigration status when they are detained.

In an op-ed in the Dallas Morning News last month, David Pughes, the interim Dallas police chief, and Art Acevedo, the Houston police chief, wrote that they opposed the legislation known as SB4.

“We officers work extremely hard to build and maintain trust, communication, and stronger relationships with minority communities through community based policing and outreach programs,” they wrote. “Broad rules, such as those imposed by SB 4, that push local law enforcement to take a more active role in immigration enforcement will further strain the relationship between local law enforcement and these diverse communities.”

“Officers would start inquiring about the immigration status of every person they come in contact with, or worse, inquire about the immigration status of people based on their appearance,” they continued. “This will lead to distrust of police and less cooperation from members of the community. And it will foster the belief that people cannot seek assistance from police for fear of being subjected to an immigration status investigation.”

That's TEXAS a BORDER State.   This happened in Portland a long, long way from the Mexican Border.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

DING fucking DING!!!

 

1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/abbott-texas-sanctuary-city-ban

OK, I was not clear but according to the new law in Texas once you are detained you better be prepared to show your status.  Anyone besides Jeff think that LE can't detain anyone if they want to? Anyone else care about the slippery slope?  Feel free to carry one with the usual smugness of being all law and order conservative types.  Note: a key point is once arrested you can be deported without a conviction.

Also, note who the 2 people who oppose this are:

The legislation, which is set to take effect Sept. 1, also includes an amendment that allows police officers to ask someone about their immigration status when they are detained.

In an op-ed in the Dallas Morning News last month, David Pughes, the interim Dallas police chief, and Art Acevedo, the Houston police chief, wrote that they opposed the legislation known as SB4.

“We officers work extremely hard to build and maintain trust, communication, and stronger relationships with minority communities through community based policing and outreach programs,” they wrote. “Broad rules, such as those imposed by SB 4, that push local law enforcement to take a more active role in immigration enforcement will further strain the relationship between local law enforcement and these diverse communities.”

“Officers would start inquiring about the immigration status of every person they come in contact with, or worse, inquire about the immigration status of people based on their appearance,” they continued. “This will lead to distrust of police and less cooperation from members of the community. And it will foster the belief that people cannot seek assistance from police for fear of being subjected to an immigration status investigation.”

You know how Cops handle it?  They stop pulling over Mexicans.  My BIL is in charge of Traffic in a MS city.   As soon as you pull over a Mexican you get the "NO Habla"  which means you have to call out a translator and waste 1/2 a day on what should be a 15 min traffic stop.  

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22 minutes ago, Dog said:

Dude...sanctuary cities do not cooperate with ICE. That's what makes them sanctuary cities.

You ignored virtually  the entire contents of my post yet you quoted it and responded as though you wish to give the impression your reply is some sort of rebuttal. 

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15 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

 

You know how Cops handle it?  They stop pulling over Mexicans.  My BIL is in charge of Traffic in a MS city.   As soon as you pull over a Mexican you get the "NO Habla"  which means you have to call out a translator and waste 1/2 a day on what should be a 15 min traffic stop.  

While on his motorcycle, a buddy of mine in CO recently got hit by a crew of young hispanic men in a landscape truck/trailer.  They tried to drive off, a witness prevented that, and several of the occupants took off running. When the police/ambulance arrived - the driver of the truck wasn't ticketed, and witness description of the attempts to drive off and the other occupants fleeing the scene were summarily ignored/excluded from the police report.  The driver wasn't the vehicle owner, wasn't ticketed.  My friend's claims adjuster said that because the owner wasn't driving, and the driver's license turned out to be invalid (belonged to someone else), and the owner won't cooperate with attempts to locate the errant employees, that recovering damages from the business owner w/out a lawsuit is highly unlikely. 

I understand the intentions behind sanctuary cities - but, this ^^^^ is the result of sanctuary statute implementation.   D - if you decided to leave Texas because of the political persecution you endure on a daily basis, and immigrate to Switzerland - but, didn't want to stay here long enough to complete the VISA process, how would you feel every day you were in Switzerland w/out the necessary entrance/residence credentials?  Would that feeling be the Swiss Govt's fault - or your own? 

 

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19 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

You ignored virtually  the entire contents of my post yet you quoted it and responded as though you wish to give the impression your reply is some sort of rebuttal. 

The cooperation between city and feds that you describe should absolutely occur. Inexplicably however, sanctuary cities reject such cooperation.  Welcome to the common sense side of the debate.

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16 minutes ago, Dog said:

The cooperation between city and feds that you describe should absolutely occur. Inexplicably however, sanctuary cities reject such cooperation.  Welcome to the common sense side of the debate.

The lack of cooperation goes both ways. Did the Feds explain why they repeatedly let the guy go despite his "local" crimes?? 

Once again: 

this OP describes federal failures and for some reason many of you  continue tomention the cities as causing problems.

who let the guy into the USA??

who released the criminal multiple times already 

There would be ZERO of these so called illegal aliens if INS did its job. 

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6 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

The lack of cooperation goes both ways. Did the Feds explain why they repeatedly let the guy go despite his "local" crimes?? 

Once again: 

this OP describes federal failures and for some reason many of you  continue tomention the cities as causing problems.

who let the guy into the USA??

who released the criminal multiple times already 

There would be ZERO of these so called illegal aliens if INS did its job. 

Causing?  Not really. Contributing to?  Absolutely.

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Sheesh, I have better things to do but here goes:

1. Reform immigration - provide a path to legal status and citizenship for those who having been working and contributing for years if not decades.

2. Enforce the laws on the books.

If you do 1 the increased revenue stimulates the economy and the SS problem is solved.  If you only do 2 and deport everyone your yard won't get mowed, the restaurants won't have any clean dishes or tables and hotels will have to offer you a room with dirty laundry. Not to mention - MS-13, the big bad gang that Trump railed about? They didn't exist in El Salvador until we deported a bunch of thugs who then formed the gang there.  If someone is a dangerous criminal then prosecute and imprison them. Deport them and they come back. Deport people without a trial? Why

3. End the fucking War on Drugs and most of the crime goes away. 

I find it ludicrous that the party that rails against big government and power lobbies for more laws and giving LE more power.  We wouldn't have this enormous Homeland Security if people had actually done their jobs.

I have decided to stop using sarcasm - so far it's going great.

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2 hours ago, d'ranger said:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/abbott-texas-sanctuary-city-ban

OK, I was not clear but according to the new law in Texas once you are detained you better be prepared to show your status.  Anyone besides Jeff think that LE can't detain anyone if they want to? Anyone else care about the slippery slope?  Feel free to carry one with the usual smugness of being all law and order conservative types. 

Note: a key point is once arrested you can be deported without a conviction.

 

If you aren't here legally, what's wrong with that?

I can't believe Texas would deport citizens just because they were name Suarez or Garcia.

I'm leaving for a foreign country next week and will have my passport with me as I travel.  If stopped for some traffic violation I expect that I would need to use it as ID if only to validate my FL drivers license or car rental contract.

If my passport is out of date I wouldn't even be allowed to board an aircraft to or from the US.

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3 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

If you aren't here legally, what's wrong with that?

I can't believe Texas would deport citizens just because they were name Suarez or Garcia.

I'm leaving for a foreign country next week and will have my passport with me as I travel.  If stopped for some traffic violation I expect that I would need to use it as ID if only to validate my FL drivers license or car rental contract.

If my passport is out of date I wouldn't even be allowed to board an aircraft to or from the US.

I will put you down for liking #1 and ignoring the rest.  What a surprise. Of course you are the guy that thought the A-1 Skyraider was a great aircraft to use in 1969.  Like after years of them flying around they didn't learn how to shoot them down. It's why we pawned them off on the South V.

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Just now, d'ranger said:

Sheesh, I have better things to do but here goes:

1. Reform immigration - provide a path to legal status and citizenship for those who having been working and contributing for years if not decades.

2. Enforce the laws on the books.

If you do 1 the increased revenue stimulates the economy and the SS problem is solved.  If you only do 2 and deport everyone your yard won't get mowed, the restaurants won't have any clean dishes or tables and hotels will have to offer you a room with dirty laundry. Not to mention - MS-13, the big bad gang that Trump railed about? They didn't exist in El Salvador until we deported a bunch of thugs who then formed the gang there.  If someone is a dangerous criminal then prosecute and imprison them. Deport them and they come back. Deport people without a trial? Why

3. End the fucking War on Drugs and most of the crime goes away. 

I find it ludicrous that the party that rails against big government and power lobbies for more laws and giving LE more power.  We wouldn't have this enormous Homeland Security if people had actually done their jobs.

I have decided to stop using sarcasm - so far it's going great.

Leaving the ones here who have been here for years would do nothing to  stimulate the economy since they are already part of it.  There would be no increase by making them legal.

We already have a path to legal status in our multiple visa programs.  There is no reason they could not apply for a visa.  If you want, you can make the application in place in the US but, if the visa is denied, you get to go home and stimulate the economy of Mexico by your hard work.

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Just now, Saorsa said:

Leaving the ones here who have been here for years would do nothing to  stimulate the economy since they are already part of it.  There would be no increase by making them legal.

We already have a path to legal status in our multiple visa programs.  There is no reason they could not apply for a visa.  If you want, you can make the application in place in the US but, if the visa is denied, you get to go home and stimulate the economy of Mexico by your hard work.

Make them legal and they start paying taxes.  Under the current programs they can't apply as they are illegal, not to mention Trump is trying to cut down legal immigration anyway.  I can't fix stupid.   Deporting 10 t0 12 million people is incredibly stupid.

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42 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

The lack of cooperation goes both ways. Did the Feds explain why they repeatedly let the guy go despite his "local" crimes?? 

Once again: 

this OP describes federal failures and for some reason many of you  continue tomention the cities as causing problems.

who let the guy into the USA??

who released the criminal multiple times already 

There would be ZERO of these so called illegal aliens if INS did its job. 

No, the lack of cooperation only goes one way. The feds are ready and willing and in fact do cooperate with non-sanctuary cities.

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25 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Sheesh, I have better things to do but here goes:

1. Reform immigration - provide a path to legal status and citizenship for those who having been working and contributing for years if not decades.

2. Enforce the laws on the books.

If you do 1 the increased revenue stimulates the economy and the SS problem is solved.  If you only do 2 and deport everyone your yard won't get mowed, the restaurants won't have any clean dishes or tables and hotels will have to offer you a room with dirty laundry. Not to mention - MS-13, the big bad gang that Trump railed about? They didn't exist in El Salvador until we deported a bunch of thugs who then formed the gang there.  If someone is a dangerous criminal then prosecute and imprison them. Deport them and they come back. Deport people without a trial? Why

3. End the fucking War on Drugs and most of the crime goes away. 

I find it ludicrous that the party that rails against big government and power lobbies for more laws and giving LE more power.  We wouldn't have this enormous Homeland Security if people had actually done their jobs.

I have decided to stop using sarcasm - so far it's going great.

That's what you're complaining about - enforcing the laws on the books. How would YOU do that differently? 

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14 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

I will put you down for liking #1 and ignoring the rest.  What a surprise. Of course you are the guy that thought the A-1 Skyraider was a great aircraft to use in 1969.  Like after years of them flying around they didn't learn how to shoot them down. It's why we pawned them off on the South V.

Close Air support and SAR missions are like the old Coast Guard saying.

You gotta go out, you don't have to come back.

The A10 program got started in the mid-60s to find a replacement for the Skyraider.  There were no contemporaneous jets that could do the job as well.

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20 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Make them legal and they start paying taxes.  Under the current programs they can't apply as they are illegal, not to mention Trump is trying to cut down legal immigration anyway.  I can't fix stupid.   Deporting 10 t0 12 million people is incredibly stupid.

What part of " If you want, you can make the application in place in the US but, if the visa is denied, you get to go home and stimulate the economy of Mexico by your hard work. " do you not understand or object to?

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24 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

What part of " If you want, you can make the application in place in the US but, if the visa is denied, you get to go home and stimulate the economy of Mexico by your hard work. " do you not understand or object to?

 

24 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

What part of " If you want, you can make the application in place in the US but, if the visa is denied, you get to go home and stimulate the economy of Mexico by your hard work. " do you not understand or object to?

uh, because it will be denied and you will be deported?  doh.  btw, Reagan and Bush the elder understood it also.

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29 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's what you're complaining about - enforcing the laws on the books. How would YOU do that differently? 

Did you bother to read anything I wrote? reform, end war on drugs, path to citizenship? Not trying to deport millions like Saorsa wants? Do those things and enforcing current laws becomes much easier. No new laws, sort of like not spending billions on a wall that doesn't stop truckloads of illegals.

This is a perfect example why I rarely come here - its mostly filled with single issue ax grinders.

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