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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Kleen Breeze, a 60+ foot Harryproa, is doing its first sea trials. It features a novel combination of unstayed wing masts in schooner configuration and two bidirectional Speer foil rudder boards.  Looking very promising so far. 

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We just made the trip motoring at the start with no wind and ending the day in 25 knots. Most pics and videos taken when doing around 9 knots in 15 knots of wind on a downwind broad reach.

luca_antara006.thumb.jpg.2d97e763205973654dff50208e79daec.jpg

5e7c6671-a897-45a9-bd58-9104fb385e4d.jpg.ea2e6e96a1e3fbbd407504fea769209d.jpg

http://us14.campaign-archive1.com/?u=8bd3efb7a8899110315782e1e&id=72a38a4480

Quote

Construction has taken approximately 6 years with Robin project managing part time when he was on leave from work. He hired a main boat builder, which eventually grew into a team of 3 by 2016. Thus far, Robin has spent US $210,000 (including $24k of lithium batteries). He estimates a further $12k to launch her into the water.

 

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I just learned that Kleen Breeze is being fitted out for charter. I guess that would be the perfect boat to charter out and get the hang of shunting with the schooner masts and double bidirectional rudders while waiting for the delivery of the newest C60 Harryproa (with hull #1 being built at Ballotta) as it shares the same basic configuration. C60-019.jpg

 

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Last year's end the skipper went missing. The police suspects the man fell overboard. Searches were abandoned about a week later.

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1 hour ago, lucdekeyser said:

Last year's end the skipper went missing. The police suspects the man fell overboard. Searches were abandoned about a week later.

That's a weird story, so I looked it up:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5221573/Missing-British-man-feared-fallen-sea.html

Quote

Missing British man, 65, is feared to have fallen into the sea and drowned while sailing alone after a boat is found empty off Portugal

  • Man has been missing since Tuesday, when wife spoke to him through email
  • Empty boat called Kleen Breeze was found near Culatra in Faro, Portugal
  • A robe was found trapped beneath the vessel and a computer was switched on
  • The boat is owned by a man named Robin Warde, according to sailing news site

 

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I’m going to let the cat out of the bag here...

im flying to Portugal in a couple of days to meet Robin’s widow and look at  this crazy cool boat, with the intention of buying her.... BIG changes for me if this goes down!

B420453C-9F41-44B5-87EA-79D9739A062D.jpeg

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interesting boats...

is there an overhead video - from a drone or something - that shows one of these shunting?

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As far as I know there are no public video's yet showing a schooner harryproa shunt.

This drawing shows the interplay between the two sails and the two rudders in a standard shunt. 

Somewhere there was a picture series of Elementarry , the early testbed of a schooner harryproa, shunting.

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3 minutes ago, lucdekeyser said:

As far as I know there are no public video's yet showing a schooner harryproa shunt.

 

seems like something he would get out there right away if seeking broader acceptance of the concept

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34 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

seems like something he would get out there right away if seeking broader acceptance of the concept

Agreed. If I end up with this thing, I will most definitely be documenting my experience. 

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Kleen Breeze is also the first of its kind with bidirectional rudders.

Previous cruiser models carried most often an aero-rig with fully rotating rudders like in the Blind Date (now Compaen).

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4 hours ago, Solarbri said:

I’m going to let the cat out of the bag here...

im flying to Portugal in a couple of days to meet Robin’s widow and look at  this crazy cool boat, with the intention of buying her.... BIG changes for me if this goes down!

B420453C-9F41-44B5-87EA-79D9739A062D.jpeg

Good luck.  I too would be curious to hear/see some factual reports and videos of its sailing performance.  Admire your adventurous spirit re boat designs.  Hope it works out for you.

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6 hours ago, Solarbri said:

I’m going to let the cat out of the bag here...

im flying to Portugal in a couple of days to meet Robin’s widow and look at  this crazy cool boat, with the intention of buying her.... BIG changes for me if this goes down!

B420453C-9F41-44B5-87EA-79D9739A062D.jpeg

I wanted to do that myself :(

Robin gave me a tour of the boat once, a few months before it was launched. As a matter of fact, that was almost exactly one year before the tragedy... It was around new years, 16/17. And I had no idea until recently when I found this thread. :(

I thought the boat was a real work of art. Strip planked in western red cedar. Beautiful round shapes.

Good luck! and let me know if you need one or two people for crew when you sail her... =)

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On 16/4/2018 at 12:17 PM, Solarbri said:

Agreed. If I end up with this thing, I will most definitely be documenting my experience. 

It amazes me how little meaningful video you can find about harryproas... people doing something out of the ordinary usually posts a video

Solarbri, good luck, there will be many people watching

 

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Thanks guys. The one thing I don’t have is $$$. BUT, I do seem to have a shit ton of magic luck that follows me around. I think between me selling everything I own, and with the help of some outside financiers who are rooting hard for me, Kleen Breeze will be mine. I will be documenting our exisistence together! If we get together. 

I missed my flight today from London to Faro, so I won’t get there til tomorrow morning, only after spending more unnecessary money, and another night on an airport floor. Oh joy. Glad I’m not in my 70’s. 

I’m scheduled to meet up with Robin’s widow, Merlene, and a fellow who was involved in the build, this Saturday for a tour of the boat.  So excited, in a “groggy, been on airplanes, airports and buses for the past 30 hours with another 10 to go kinda feeling”...

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Solarbri,

Hope it works out.

Sailplane,

Not sure what you mean by "meaningful".  Harryproas are safer, easier to build and sail, faster and cost less than cats and tris.   The following videos etc give meaning to these claims.

A 3.5 ton $350,000, 50' cruiser sailing effortlessly at wind speed with no extras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8chR6DAFjGA&t=254s  in 10 and 15 knots of breeze under main and jib.  It also shows the spray and drag from the first generation bows and rudder mounts.  Both are much cleaner on the latest versions, eg http://harryproa.com/?p=1747 none of which are sailing yet.  

Kleen Breeze sailing at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIFDforLxBY&t=4s .  Not much breeze, but there is a description of sailing in 25 knots at http://harryproa.com/?p=562.    20 minutes of hands off steering without an autopilot is more meaningful than most multis.

 Gps track and footage of a home built and modified 60'ter,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=1fsxnaYi-PM sailing at 17 knots (1 minute average) in 18-20 breeze, also with no extras.   An explanation of how and why at http://harryproa.com/?p=129 and https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harryproa/info    Look for posts by Rick Willoughby.

The first 50 launched being sailed and shunted by a group of sight impaired first time sailors in Holland, something it has been doing for 10 years.  At 13.00 minutes it shows  an 8 second shunt in 20 knots and a couple of longer ones earlier on.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftyqI2aJlo&t=3s   Also with first gen rudders and bows.

A home built 25'ter being comfortably cruised up and down the rugged, windy West Australian coast, solo.     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP2cYwi-f2I  

A step on the way to a foiling version https://vimeo.com/252480285   and  a crude self righting model https://vimeo.com/257852827

A folding harry  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xVNGXqGPtE  in New Zealand.

No video, but a description of an overloaded 40'ter with neophyte crew weathering a 45 knot gale while crossing from Australia to New Zealand at http://harryproa.com/?p=1759

 

There are a bunch of build photos, costings, explanations and other boats at www.harryproa.com and a pretty comprehensive list of all the failures, screw ups, ideas and thinking that lead us to where we are now at https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harryproa/info  

If that is not enough, ask me specific questions and I will do my best to answer them. 

 

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8 hours ago, harryproa said:

If that is not enough, ask me specific questions and I will do my best to answer them. 

 

i asked for something pretty specific up above...

i wanted to see some sort of a video - preferably from a drone high above - of what happens when one of these 2 masted proas tacks or gybes. if i understand correctly, it is called "shunting"...

 

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8 hours ago, harryproa said:

Solarbri,

Hope it works out.

Sailplane,

Not sure what you mean by "meaningful".  Harryproas are safer, easier to build and sail, faster and cost less than cats and tris.   The following videos etc give meaning to these claims.

A 3.5 ton $350,000, 50' cruiser sailing effortlessly at wind speed with no extras https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8chR6DAFjGA&t=254s  in 10 and 15 knots of breeze under main and jib.  It also shows the spray and drag from the first generation bows and rudder mounts.  Both are much cleaner on the latest versions, eg http://harryproa.com/?p=1747 none of which are sailing yet.  

Kleen Breeze sailing at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIFDforLxBY&t=4s .  Not much breeze, but there is a description of sailing in 25 knots at http://harryproa.com/?p=562.    20 minutes of hands off steering without an autopilot is more meaningful than most multis.

 Gps track and footage of a home built and modified 60'ter,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=1fsxnaYi-PM sailing at 17 knots (1 minute average) in 18-20 breeze, also with no extras.   An explanation of how and why at http://harryproa.com/?p=129 and https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harryproa/info    Look for posts by Rick Willoughby.

The first 50 launched being sailed and shunted by a group of sight impaired first time sailors in Holland, something it has been doing for 10 years.  At 13.00 minutes it shows  an 8 second shunt in 20 knots and a couple of longer ones earlier on.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftyqI2aJlo&t=3s   Also with first gen rudders and bows.

A home built 25'ter being comfortably cruised up and down the rugged, windy West Australian coast, solo.     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP2cYwi-f2I  

A step on the way to a foiling version https://vimeo.com/252480285   and  a crude self righting model https://vimeo.com/257852827

A folding harry  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xVNGXqGPtE  in New Zealand.

No video, but a description of an overloaded 40'ter with neophyte crew weathering a 45 knot gale while crossing from Australia to New Zealand at http://harryproa.com/?p=1759

 

There are a bunch of build photos, costings, explanations and other boats at www.harryproa.com and a pretty comprehensive list of all the failures, screw ups, ideas and thinking that lead us to where we are now at https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/harryproa/info  

If that is not enough, ask me specific questions and I will do my best to answer them. 

 

Harryproa, by meaningful I meant that when I searched your website and YT for videos of your proas, most videos where of experimental or construction phases, little wind, not sailing, not shunting, but maybe I didn´t do the search right

thanks for the collection, I will check out those videos during the weekend

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13 hours ago, us7070 said:

 

i asked for something pretty specific up above...

i wanted to see some sort of a video - preferably from a drone high above - of what happens when one of these 2 masted proas tacks or gybes. if i understand correctly, it is called "shunting"...

 

Nothing from a drone, sorry.  Not that there would be much to see.  The boom(s) swing from one end to the other, the boat takes off in the opposite direction, while luffing up onto the new course.  Same as a twin tip kite board.  There is an animation at http://harryproa.com/?p=1910 

On the earlier boats, the rudders rotated through 180 degrees as well as the rig.  These days we are using Tom Speer's proa sections http://www.basiliscus.com/ProaSections/ProaIndex.html which work in both directions.  Consequently, the rudders only rotate 20-30 degrees during a shunt.  As the rudders are fore and aft the boat luffs far quicker than a conventional multi.  On the schooner rigs, this is helped by trimming the aft sail  first during a tack shunt and the fore sail first for a gybe shunt.

There are a couple of shunts in the video mentioned above  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftyqI2aJlo&t=3s   At 13.00 minutes it shows  an 8 second shunt in 20 knots and a couple of longer ones earlier on.  The longer ones are not pretty, (impaired, first time crew) but do show some of the advantages of shunting.  ie you can take as long as you like,  reverse it at at any time, does not require much crew coordination and does not run the risk of getting in irons (upwind) or surfing down waves with the boom slamming across and possible broaching (downwind in decent breeze).  Nor are there any potential "zone of death" issues during bear aways, although this is a function of the unstayed rig rather than the proa format.

Hope this helps. 

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9 hours ago, harryproa said:

Nothing from a drone, sorry.  Not that there would be much to see.

 

you post the video...

we'll be the judge of whether or not there is anything to see.

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8 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

you post the video...

we'll be the judge of whether or not there is anything to see.

For the third time:

There are a couple of shunts in the video mentioned above  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wftyqI2aJlo&t=3s   At 13.00 minutes it shows  an 8 second shunt in 20 knots and a couple of longer ones earlier on.  The longer ones are not pretty, (impaired, first time crew) but do show some of the advantages of shunting.  ie you can take as long as you like,  reverse it at at any time, does not require much crew coordination and does not run the risk of getting in irons (upwind) or surfing down waves with the boom slamming across and possible broaching (downwind in decent breeze).  Nor are there any potential "zone of death" issues during bear aways, although this is a function of the unstayed rig rather than the proa format.

Let me know what you think.

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19 minutes ago, harryproa said:

For the third time:

up above, you asked us what we wanted...

i don't know what the others want.., but what i said i would like to see is a video from above, of one of the two-masted proas shunting... the view from above would give me a much better sense of what's going on than those other videos

and, given that kleen breeze  - the subject of this thread - has two masts.., it's not unreasonable to ask to see one of those in action

i appreciate you don't have one now.., but it should be possible to get one, given a few weeks....

i probably wouldn't have said anything.., except that you asked...

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And I’m still sitting around here in Portugal, patiently waiting, to just go have a look see at Kleen Breeze. The weather has been crap, so today’s scheduled viewing is on hold til Monday. 

And, if/when I do get this boat and sail her, I still don’t have a drone, so I won’t be of much help to the requests. 

Man o man. How does one stay patient in a foreign country, in the rain, with nothing to do without weed? 

 

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Portuguese weed - food! Mariscos: cod, clams, prawns. Sausages. Stews. Any kind of smoked pork. Really reasonable prices, killer portions, and good cheap local wines.

Find a family place where avó (grandma) is running the kitchen. Eat yourself into a coma.
Sorry you had to spend 4/20 away from home. ;-)

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Got some weed. Everything is back under control. 

The food is great! But, I am allergic to shellfish. 

Not nearly as cheap as Mexico though!

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