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Can we please have discussion about the next race in this thread and leave the 2017-2018 thread for that race.

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There is deck probably up to about the mast.  So some indication, but technically, no foredeck. And indeed, a very interesting curvaceous design. One would assume it is the latest thoughts on controlling green water over the deck. It looks almost like an inverse of the reverse camber deck seen on a lot of the latest IMOCA 60s. Maybe they can run control lines under the curved up parts, which might make the deck a bit more human friendly than square edged conduits. 

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2 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

There is deck probably up to about the mast.  So some indication, but technically, no foredeck. And indeed, a very interesting curvaceous design. One would assume it is the latest thoughts on controlling green water over the deck. It looks almost like an inverse of the reverse camber deck seen on a lot of the latest IMOCA 60s. Maybe they can run control lines under the curved up parts, which might make the deck a bit more human friendly than square edged conduits. 

 

With these large beamy plaining boats, they're supposed to be heeled over 20-30 degrees, the design makes the leeward side much safer to work on because it is actually leveling when the boat is heeled over. Also helps create headroom/volume where you want it. 

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What's the timeline for these boats? Will the info come out in dribbles while the upcoming race goes on? Or is there some clear date or dates that they will unveil the details?

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20 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

There is deck probably up to about the mast.  So some indication, but technically, no foredeck. And indeed, a very interesting curvaceous design. One would assume it is the latest thoughts on controlling green water over the deck. It looks almost like an inverse of the reverse camber deck seen on a lot of the latest IMOCA 60s. Maybe they can run control lines under the curved up parts, which might make the deck a bit more human friendly than square edged conduits. 

That's my fixed idea about the future design of VOR's, Shelters for the crew in case of heavy seas rolling of the deck.
For my sake retractable not to desturb aerodynamics in case of light weather.

And I agree about the lines under deck...

 

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2 hours ago, schakel488 said:

That's my fixed idea about the future design of VOR's, Shelters for the crew in case of heavy seas rolling of the deck.
For my sake retractable not to desturb aerodynamics in case of light weather.

 

Dead right there schakmeister..then again the snatches have to watch out for the hatches..(flame suit employed)

 

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Well in case of employment or deployment the crew really really really have to watch out.
These shelters are one of my engineerings ideas.
Does anyone wants to bet about the man over board procedures in the upcoming VOR?
And I know they have lifelines  and safety buoyancy devices.
Safety first...

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22 minutes ago, southerncross said:

Given the AC's announcement it seems Verdier's foiling mono's will be ruling the waves for a while.

I Know,

Good for Verdier. 

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18 minutes ago, schakel488 said:

Well in case of employment or deployment the crew really really really have to watch out.
These shelters are one of my engineerings ideas.
Does anyone wants to bet about the man over board procedures in the upcoming VOR?
And I know they have lifelines  and safety buoyancy devices.
Safety first...

Retractable shelters have been on the IMOCA 60s since at least 2008. What do you mean about the MOB procedures, can you elucidate?

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On 9/9/2017 at 7:52 AM, Francis Vaughan said:

There is deck probably up to about the mast.  So some indication, but technically, no foredeck. And indeed, a very interesting curvaceous design. One would assume it is the latest thoughts on controlling green water over the deck. It looks almost like an inverse of the reverse camber deck seen on a lot of the latest IMOCA 60s. Maybe they can run control lines under the curved up parts, which might make the deck a bit more human friendly than square edged conduits. 

Nope. It's just about getting VCG down.

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I had rather not. 
Safety files are confidential.
But I am not looking forward to the coming VOR for safety reasons.
The racing on the other hand will be great.

 

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SO you ask if anyone wants to bet about MOB procedures, and then follow it up by saying safety files are confidential.  WTF?

Also, why should the coming VOR be any more dangerous than the previous one? Sailors now have to be actually qualified, the safety training is well done, the coverage from shore is like never before. 

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6 minutes ago, Potter said:

SO you ask if anyone wants to bet about MOB procedures, and then follow it up by saying safety files are confidential.  WTF?

Also, why should the coming VOR be any more dangerous than the previous one? Sailors now have to be actually qualified, the safety training is well done, the coverage from shore is like never before. 

I'm struggling to understand him too. Not sure what's diff about this edition that'll make the 65 more dangerous. It's interesting getting criticism from some saying the 65 are too robust and are a bus. Then others say it's too unsafe. 

Don't think there's much the 65s are worse than prior boats at. Except maybe DNF a leg because the boat's structural limits the crews ability to drive them hard. If I had to nikpick something it'll be the habit of helm not being clipped in and getting hit by a large one really instantly knocks you to the rear of the lifelines. But they're probably as speced to keep you on board. Just painful. 

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So the only things that I could think of is that if the shelter is badly designed, it will limit visibility to such a degree that you wouldn't notice if someone falls overboard and would make it harder for the helmsman to see the person swimming in the ocean. Also it could work as a "kicker" if you get huge flooding on deck. 

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2 hours ago, DtM said:

Schakel used to post a lot of unintelligible rubbish last time around.  Just ignore.

This

 

The idiot has returned. 

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Schakel's posts are indeed unintelligable, however they are being used as opportunity by the "connected" ones, e.g. Potter, Miffy, etc. to promote their own agendas which by now are boringly predictable. Maybe these guys can resist the temptation?

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4 hours ago, staysail said:

Schakel's posts are indeed unintelligable, however they are being used as opportunity by the "connected" ones, e.g. Potter, Miffy, etc. to promote their own agendas which by now are boringly predictable. Maybe these guys can resist the temptation?

I don't think anybody can accuse Potter with 'promoting his own agenda' 

He's well connected and posts up good information.

Miffy? Not so sure, haven't seen him/her that much.  

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1 hour ago, mad said:

I don't think anybody can accuse Potter with 'promoting his own agenda' 

He's well connected and posts up good information.

Miffy? Not so sure, haven't seen him/her that much.  

Agree that Potter usually posts good information; Miffy doesn't but is prolific and always the same message. Why do they bother to respond to Shakel?

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Guys guys guys,

The VOR hasn't even started and the shit fight already started.
I apologize for the Scallywag, WOXI, Perpentual Loyal thread I opened during the last S2H.
But that's it.

@ Mad, Waar was jij tijdens de laatste clubborrel? (yachting club off course)

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How the heck are they going to make foils strong enough to last a whole ocean leg? With FIVE trim tabs!? Don't bother arguing that the IMOCA 60 boards lasted because Alex Thompson broke his, and Armel L'clèach said he was only using the boards when he needed to, no clue how he managed that, but that's what he said 

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Boring. there was a huge amount of anticipation/excitement for the new foiler boat - damn shame they've lost their nerve- now potentially another round with the 65's. Boring. I don't think they'll get the numbers if they try the 65's again as everyone has moved on. Keep Mark Turner on, he breathed new excitement into what was getting a bit tired.

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Imagine that, Mark fights to turn the VOR back towards its roots as a southern ocean challenge race for sailors, and the sponsors say screw that, my largest markets are in the middle east and china.   I would step down too.

There is always the no electronics slow cork bobbing around the world race coming up.

And who knows if we can really race around the world anymore with province sized ice bergs breaking off Antarctica.

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17 hours ago, whio said:

Boring. there was a huge amount of anticipation/excitement for the new foiler boat - damn shame they've lost their nerve- now potentially another round with the 65's. Boring. I don't think they'll get the numbers if they try the 65's again as everyone has moved on. Keep Mark Turner on, he breathed new excitement into what was getting a bit tired.

Sad news that Mark is stepping down, He's a visionary on running offshore event with  tons of personal experience at sea fitting him perfectly for the job.  He appears at first sight to be sandwiched between two corporate, like by hut separately funded entities, each. each with their own budgets and visions going forward.  Tough situation.

And as long-time ocean racing commentator Brian Hancok notes he's a lone ranger, apparrenttyr successful funning his own show and probably chafes under corporatepressure/

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On 9/27/2017 at 7:28 AM, KiwiJoker said:

 He appears at first sight to be sandwiched between two corporate, like by hut separately funded entities, each. each with their own budgets and visions going forward.  Tough situation.

Mark always comes across as diplomatic, progressive, and level headed which imo is exactly what the VOR needs right now. Do we have more information about whether this was solely his decision or he's getting corporate pressure to leave? 

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As I understand it, it was entirely Mark's decision with the Volvo Execs wanting him to stay. However they would not keep to the timeline that he envisioned, and without that he sees his plans as being in jeopardy.

I have to say he has got a really strong management team in place, which I know was one of his aims. So I think his departure will not affect the coming race, and that team are more than capable of delivering the new boat for 2020.

 

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20 minutes ago, Potter said:

As I understand it, it was entirely Mark's decision with the Volvo Execs wanting him to stay. However they would not keep to the timeline that he envisioned, and without that he sees his plans as being in jeopardy.

I have to say he has got a really strong management team in place, which I know was one of his aims. So I think his departure will not affect the coming race, and that team are more than capable of delivering the new boat for 2020.

 

Come on Potter! There has to be much more to it than that.

This years race is already a failure which can be laid at Knut and VOR's door and Mark may have managed a bit of good damage control OK before he resigned.

But, a resignation like this is an admission of a personal failure to achieve his objectives. Something which Mark will find a bitter pill to swallow.

If Mark thought the event going forward has any hope of regaining its former status I very much doubt he would have resigned.

Mark's resignation suggests to me that the VOR is finished.

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1 hour ago, Potter said:

As I understand it, it was entirely Mark's decision with the Volvo Execs wanting him to stay. However they would not keep to the timeline that he envisioned, and without that he sees his plans as being in jeopardy.

I have to say he has got a really strong management team in place, which I know was one of his aims. So I think his departure will not affect the coming race, and that team are more than capable of delivering the new boat for 2020.

 

I agree Potter, there is a lot of talent there, people like Bicey (albeit inherited) don't come along every 5 minutes. Does one now assume they are also looking for a new environment sustainability manager as Mrs T is also walking? If it was a "my (MT) way or the highway" dummy spit by MT then one wonders why he took the job in the first place. Balancing corporate and go forward vision is a CEO's day job in any industry. Seems to me he wasn't up for it and is better at running his own gig. I hope the replacement can sort it.

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47 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Balancing corporate and go forward vision is a CEO's day job in any industry. 

Neither Knut, nor Bourke, nor Turner was a 'CEO in any industry'.  A CEO in any industry would find the VOR a pretty big challenge, just as MT found working for a conservative corporate board.

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1 hour ago, jack_sparrow said:

Balancing corporate and go forward vision is a CEO's day job in any industry.

 

1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Neither Knut, nor Bourke, nor Turner was a 'CEO in any industry'. 

Parking the superb attributes of all, maybe therein lies the problem this event has had for a long time??

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16 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Neither Knut, nor Bourke, nor Turner was a 'CEO in any industry'.  A CEO in any industry would find the VOR a pretty big challenge, just as MT found working for a conservative corporate board.

Whaaaaat?

While acknowledging that running the VOR requires a combination of various leadership, PR and strategic skills.....it is a less complex model compared to many typical mid sized international public corporations with independent board. The VOR product has to please sponsors every couple of years compared to pleasing customers every day in a rapidly changing world. It has relatively few employees who generally love their work compared to the challenge of motivating thousands of employees and retaining your best managers who are being head hunted by your competition. The VOR has to manage expenses within budget and provide sponsors with an ephemeral return on the sponsorship dollars . The CEO has to make a profit that exceeds the cost of capital in hard dollars that a board will measure quarter in and quarter out while at the same time meeting environmental and employees goals set by a supervisory board. 

Mark Turner sounds like a successful and popular team manger with good leadership skills. Who knows he might make a good CEO ? But I wouldnt rank the VOR as among the Himalayas of management challenges. More like the Berkshires. It's a good stiff hike but we don't need Jeff Bezos.

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4 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

Whaaaaat?

While acknowledging that running the VOR requires a combination of various leadership, PR and strategic skills.....it is a less complex model compared to many typical mid sized international public corporations with independent board. The VOR product has to please sponsors every couple of years compared to pleasing customers every day in a rapidly changing world. It has relatively few employees who generally love their work compared to the challenge of motivating thousands of employees and retaining your best managers who are being head hunted by your competition. The VOR has to manage expenses within budget and provide sponsors with an ephemeral return on the sponsorship dollars . The CEO has to make a profit that exceeds the cost of capital in hard dollars that a board will measure quarter in and quarter out while at the same time meeting environmental and employees goals set by a supervisory board. 

Mark Turner sounds like a successful and popular team manger with good leadership skills. Who knows he might make a good CEO ? But I wouldnt rank the VOR as among the Himalayas of management challenges. More like the Berkshires. It's a good stiff hike but we don't need Jeff Bezos.

Running sporting organizations has long been distinguished from running businesses, and few would require more 'getting up to speed' from an outsider than the VOR.  And the pay is a fraction of what a CEO of a F500 company would make...maybe that's the problem!

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13 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Running sporting organizations has long been distinguished from running businesses, and few would require more 'getting up to speed' from an outsider than the VOR.  And the pay is a fraction of what a CEO of a F500 company would make...maybe that's the problem!

More to the point CLEAN would be the reported issues Mark Turner had with trying to run the show whilst hamstrung by the board for want of a better word. Clearly a good CEO will not want to work in that environment if he is being micro managed or being over ruled. Begs the question why have a CEO? Answer: Because the board don't want to do the work. 

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Good CEO's manage Boards (who are a disparate bunch at the best of times), not the other way round and line managers run the business. CEO's good and bad either walk or are pushed on account of this aspect. Sporting organisations rarely have or can afford this model and more often than not suffer because of it.

 

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10 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hence my last concluding sentence Terra.

I'd happily recommend you for the job Jack.! Worthy cause......:D

Jack_in_the_Box_2009_logo.svg.png

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Terra you go get me all the metrics including a line by line P&L of the last 2 races and corresponding budget items for 17/18 and 19/20 I could probably make a meaningful suggestion or two. Without that info we are all just cyber wankers with an opinion and who happen to love the race and don't want to see it die.

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6 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

And the pay is a fraction of what a CEO of a F500 company would make...maybe that's the problem!

Putting aside pay and concentrating on capacity Clean you have had a lightbulb moment.

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http://www.tipandshaft.com/volvo-ocean-race/pourquoi-mark-turner-a-demissionne-de-la-volvo-ocean-race/

Quote

Ce n’est que dans les dernières semaines que l’ambiance s’est tendue, lorsqu’il a fallu débloquer les fonds pour financer le mannequin du moule, fabriqué chez Persico. Selon nos informations, les actionnaires souhaitaient attendre la fin de l’année afin d’évaluer plus en profondeur les risques, comme le veulent les process habituels dans ces multinationales. Des risques qui ont été jugés trop élevés, d’autant plus que, après avoir accepté de construire un VO 65 neuf pour AkzoNobel, la Volvo Ocean Race se retrouve finalement avec un huitième bateau à quai, faute de sponsor – l’ex SCA, « refité » pour 1 million d’euros comme les autres et proposé un temps à… Franck Cammas au sortir de la Coupe de l’America. Ce qui représente un coût non négligeable pour l’organisation.

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On 10/5/2017 at 9:15 PM, Rantifarian said:

The bucket list was never sorted and you are trying for a Volvo gig? 

Bucket List and the Volvo Proa are totally unrelated, so why not?    

Included in our proposal was building a half size model to prove the concept.  This would have cost Volvo 25,000€ in a program that budgeted 7.5 million Euros for 10 boats  and would have been sailing when the winner was announced.      

We were not short listed, so I am using Bucket List as the proof of concept.  If/when it works, we will sell plans for home and pro builders.   

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Potter said:

This is one of the proposals, not the chosen one. No decision has been made yet.

The entire cat in-port race idea is probably in limbo pending future CEO?

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On 10/11/2017 at 10:43 PM, Miffy said:

The entire cat in-port race idea is probably in limbo pending future CEO?

Without doubt.
That circus can still be stopped.
It makes absolutely no sense in the VOR, except adding costs and risk of injuries.

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Mark Turner emphasized that the overall plans (incl cats?) are the same. The timeline is the problem.  No doubt a different CEO might want to change the plans though. 

Details here (and likely more upthread). Least ambiguous statement at 3:25

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So restart in Alicante. Mark Turner's last day now, stepping down. Details about new CEO tomorrow

(Today's Live: awaiting you tube version for the transcript)

Sheesh.

 

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so....will be interesting to see if any of the design ideas implemented in the new AC75 will be transferred to the next generation of VOR boat.... 

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I doubt it. The boat does not give Volvo any value add but gives them lots of headaches (financial mainly). OD took away the incentive to think out of the box. Timewise is also very tight. They need to decide which boat by latest spring 2018, to start building the 7-8 by September 2018. 

But it is a pity if they don't try something radical. The technical race is gone. 

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Volvo will be the last ones on the planet to explore taking that relatively flat water mono/trimarane and seeing if it can be adopted for a RTW race. They have neither the wallet or the need to unless they go back to a box rule.

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25 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Volvo will be the last ones on the planet to explore taking that relatively flat water mono/trimarane and seeing if it can be adopted for a RTW race. They have neither the wallet or the need to unless they go back to a box rule.

Although I agree about the wallet, I think that if they're serious about building a new boat, all options should be on the table. Also it's not obvious that a "dali-foil" is the best solution for VOR 

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2 hours ago, jonas a said:

Although I agree about the wallet, I think that if they're serious about building a new boat, all options should be on the table. Also it's not obvious that a "dali-foil" is the best solution for VOR 

Clearly they seriously considered the option when willing to make them "Imoca compatible" (from the start or through small adaptations permanent or not), but since Imoca has refused (not sure why), the picture is now different.

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49 minutes ago, yl75 said:

Clearly they seriously considered the option when willing to make them "Imoca compatible" (from the start or through small adaptations permanent or not), but since Imoca has refused (not sure why), the picture is now different.

There was some discussion about this earlier. The Imoca community is afraid that an influx of almost new vor's would disrupt the market too much. 

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The V60 Foiler good idea from the Turner dynasty. Having it as a seperate division in IMOCA events was a brain fart. 

He never thought beforehand about IMOCA's obvious reaction to that by simply putting the boot on the other foot and gauging his own reaction to IMOCA saying, "how about putting our Open 60's into the VOR as a seperate division"?  

Blinding fucking obvious the answer?

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6 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

.................... "how about putting our Open 60's into the VOR as a separate division"?   

...but why not?   Does VO really want to be in the boat biz??   :mellow:

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9 hours ago, couchsurfer said:

...but why not?   Does VO really want to be in the boat biz??   :mellow:

Why not??..try the Pusseywheelers putting the money up for their event and crewed OD VO60's to come in behind 2 Handed Open 60's for starters. 

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3 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Why not??..try the Pusseywheelers putting the money up for their event and crewed OD VO60's to come in behind 2 Handed Open 60's for starters. 

...ohh, see your point.     though in a perfect world, collaborated events would be more resourceful add some interest. 

                            ...in a perfect world.   ...with lots of sponsors.   :mellow:

 

                               ...in any case,,, ocean racing is stupid until it's on foils, with kites.    :)

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Next race delayed to 2021-22?? The sponsored article from Musto on Seahorse states that the next edition shall happen in about 4 years time. Has anyone heard anything about this? This would be a big strategical shift from the two year cycle from Mark Turner wanted to go back to the old 4 year cycle. Maybe Volvo has decided to stop financing the OD fleet and wants to go back the box rule that was financed by the teams themselves. (I wish!). 

https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/115-content/december-2017/557-warmer-less-cold-drier-less-wet-fresher-less-exhausted

"[...] Musto is already in talks with the Volvo Ocean Race organisers for the next edition that is now expected to take place in about four years’ time. [...]"

 

 

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Groan, 4 years is a big wait. OTOH, it may be what they need if they want to have a total rethink about the race. Which almost certainly means the VO60 is DOA (rather than life support) and pretty much everything else.

Such a delay would imply that the pin has been pulled on the entire set of continuity components MT had in place, and that nothing will be left.

This might actually be what is needed, but the loss of continuity and the need to essentially scratch start the race is a big negative. The up front cash that Volvo put in might be an issue, but I doubt it is the core driver. OD remains controversial, but nothing as much as it was. From the point of view of the sponsors it has probably been a net positive. 

In four years maybe everybody will be zipping around the planet on beefed up AC style tri-foiler monohulls.

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4 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Groan, 4 years is a big wait. OTOH, it may be what they need if they want to have a total rethink about the race. Which almost certainly means the VO60 is DOA (rather than life support) and pretty much everything else.

Such a delay would imply that the pin has been pulled on the entire set of continuity components MT had in place, and that nothing will be left.

This might actually be what is needed, but the loss of continuity and the need to essentially scratch start the race is a big negative. The up front cash that Volvo put in might be an issue, but I doubt it is the core driver. OD remains controversial, but nothing as much as it was. From the point of view of the sponsors it has probably been a net positive. 

In four years maybe everybody will be zipping around the planet on beefed up AC style tri-foiler monohulls.

Behind the scenes, plenty is being looked at to use the existing boats for some interesting events in the coming years. It requires less of a fixed team/crew so not as much interference with Olympics and AC. The "out in the open" is for instance the "Lap of Antartica", but would include some changes to the boats (different boards). It is an attempt to extend the life of these boats at minimum cost to bridge the gap without having to compete with AC and Olympics (and Vendee) for coverage.

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Interesting thoughts. Is boat 8 still for sale? That would be telling.

One would guess there is potentially a lot going on in terms of handover of the race from MT, so I would actually be surprised that there was much in the way of hard decisions being made right now. There may be an element of triage in what is being addressed now.

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20 minutes ago, Francis Vaughan said:

Interesting thoughts. Is boat 8 still for sale? That would be telling.

Believe so.  The old SCA was sold.

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A quick search and right now the old SCA is still listed for sale.  http://www.berthon.co.uk/yacht-sales-brokerage/yacht-for-sale/volvo-ocean-65-sca/

A million Euros!!???  They claim that the refit cost that - so the boat is essentially being sold for no more than the cost of its refit. If they run another race with the 65's this would be the bargain of the decade if you bought it right now.

Seeing if the boat is withdrawn from sale soon might be a clue about the intent the new management have.

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3 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

A quick search and right now the old SCA is still listed for sale.  http://www.berthon.co.uk/yacht-sales-brokerage/yacht-for-sale/volvo-ocean-65-sca/

A million Euros!!???  They claim that the refit cost that - so the boat is essentially being sold for no more than the cost of its refit. If they run another race with the 65's this would be the bargain of the decade if you bought it right now.

Seeing if the boat is withdrawn from sale soon might be a clue about the intent the new management have.

Doesn't that imply that with the refit cost deducted the boat is essentially valueless? .... and if they don't run another race with the 65's what is any VOR65 going to be worth?
Do you seriously think another Volvo Round the World Race, staged in 4 years time, will be sailed in these slow, and by then very old, boats?
I for one won't be rushing to pick up this "bargain".

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No, I have every expectation the next race won't be run in them. This was more an observation about lostmydetailsagain's post. If these boats are to perform more race duty after this year, purchasing this one might be cheaper than the lease costs if you wanted to join in.  But as the next actual VOR, I very much doubt it. I have a feeling the next VOR is going to be more radical than anything on the table currently, and may owe more to the current AC plans than anything else. But that is just me.

No matter what, the core of a VO65 isn't valueless. If I had the money I suspect they would make the basis of a very nice fast race boat.  Nothing a bit of work with a chainsaw, some carbon and a reasonable amount of money coudn't turn into something every bit as evil and potent as a VO70, but probably much less fragile. (It may well entail adding back 5 feet.) Then again, there does seem to be some history that suggests that any such race boat has a value of about 1 million. I seem to remember Rio 100 going for about that.  It perhaps reflects the reality that actually the boats are all actually worthless, the cost of running a campaign with any of them so dominates the purchase price that the asking prices are just a nominal "please take it away" price.

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Another round in the 65? I really doubt that. They said too often that there will be a new boat. The new one has to sink on launch for that to happen.

I still think that the 65s are more worth as a matched set than individually. Proven resiliance (aka too heavy :P ), sat and media gear (leased from someone else), can be sailed by the 2nd and 3rd tier top sailors of the world (slowly). Most of all that they are known to very very similar.

Rock up to about any race and get your own instant high profile OD division. Select an interesting course and do your own race, record or even training. 
There should be a ton of ways to add 2nd tier feeder events to the VOR on the old boat. They already have the whole containerized infrastructure required to run events like that out of most harbors in the world. Since there will be a new boat performance against others wont matter as much. My guess is that at the end of the day any new mini event is seen as cannibalizing the big one. A long way after that is how well and safely you can sail them with less experienced crew. Not pay for play but being cheap ... not paying for rock stars ... training a new off shore sailor generation for future VOR editions.

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AFAIK, there is no intention of going RtW again in these 65s. From what I understand they'll use the boats (or try to..) for shorter races where there is no real competition (like the round Antartica) apart from the OD. And those events will only last until the next race is clearly defined (and thus the class is out sailing): much like people sailed IMOCAs ahead of the first VO70 event.

SCA would probably need the updated rig/rigging though (add €600000 to the price) if you want to play in the OD fleet...

That said, of course some people want to re-use the boats and just add DSS/Dali foils just forgetting that it basically adds righting moment and therefore all engineering on the structures becomes void so it isn't very cost effective...

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6 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

A quick search and right now the old SCA is still listed for sale.  http://www.berthon.co.uk/yacht-sales-brokerage/yacht-for-sale/volvo-ocean-65-sca/

A million Euros!!???  They claim that the refit cost that - so the boat is essentially being sold for no more than the cost of its refit. If they run another race with the 65's this would be the bargain of the decade if you bought it right now.

Seeing if the boat is withdrawn from sale soon might be a clue about the intent the new management have.

Oops.  Right.  It was late.

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17 hours ago, Chasm said:

I still think that the 65s are more worth as a matched set than individually.

^^^^This.....aka a faster Clippering division for more athletic accountants and fireman.

A VO70 with containers of gear was around 1 million+ Euro depending how good it was. Then more work and bucks needed to make it more rating and short race friendly. 

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23 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

No, I have every expectation the next race won't be run in them.  .................

..................It perhaps reflects the reality that actually the boats are all actually worthless, the cost of running a campaign with any of them so dominates the purchase price that the asking prices are just a nominal "please take it away" price.

your post rather supports my view that Knut's swansong of turning the race into a one design (to reduce the cost of the boats?) was not such a brilliant move as many people thought. A short term fix, but what was the long game plan? Small wonder he went when he did.

The future of the race is looking very uncertain now, whilst other forms of ocean racing and ocean record breaking are booming.

We seem to have a 4 year posponement and no official word about the future. Back to box rule? An announcement from RB & Co very soon? In the face of this situation I find it hard to imagine how any potential sponsors or skippers can be planning now to enter the next race, if indeed there is to be one.

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