WetnWild

A Cat Worlds Sopot

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Sonofabitch said:

Sam, Apparently you are not yet foiling bow down... Requires more rake to balance the foils. 

Erwanker, if you are new to foiling suggest you speak to other Auzens.

 

If you are foiling bow down, you have too much winglet lift, which generally indicates you are also trying to foil upwind. I can see running further back than 6° if that is the case, but I will argue you are compensating for a foil AoA/balance problem with the wrong tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looks like it was a light wind day and Stevie Brewin won a race with a short rig. I thought they weren't meant to be any good in light weather :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

It looks like it was a light wind day and Stevie Brewin won a race with a short rig. I thought they weren't meant to be any good in light weather :D

Maximum wind gust recorded 24kmh but some of the photos seemed to have more. I've been in Kraków and Warsaw today so no local knowledge. Maybe someone there could chime in. Probably a bit of sandbagging going on in the results over the line. Estevie will know how he is going in a straight line anyway despite some notable absences from the fleet. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching the video and reading the comments on the net, I think the first day was really shifty and on average, pretty light. Notice the video of Stevie on the last run with everybody else lowriding. That says it was 6 knots or less.

Here we go with another "it isn't usually like this" regatta:D Looking at the forecast going forward, it doesn't look exciting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interview with Stevie was interesting.  It takes serious heads out of the boat sailing and confidence to see a change coming through when going down wind, turn UPWIND to get into it then sail past the leaders.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No argument on head out of the boat abilities, Stevie has the time on the boat to make that happen where few others can. I will say though that this technique doesn't surprise me. Even in more pressure than these races, or maybe about the same (going by the video footage, would be good to have real numbers of course), often one has to head up pretty high to stay on foils downwind. At some point it may be faster to sail directly to the pressure, get on the foils and come down 40° or more and go downwind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WnW are you some kind of moderator? No I think not. Erwanker has rights on this forum and you, you piece of Gold Coast Auzen effluent, have nothing.... 

Erwankerauzen ... Zero iPhone on transom...7 degrees mast rake is extreme but so so is bow down upwind foiling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are still relying on an iphone to rig your A-Cat, your numbers are questionable. In the very best situation the iphone is accurate to within 0.5°, but I wouldn't trust better than 1.0°.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Mates, 

A few ° rake is not a good reason enough to fight on the forum, d'ont you appreciate this peaceful atmosphere without Doug getting on the nerves of everybody with his uptip obsession???

It is Holidays for Anarchists, just enjoy!!!

If I wish to get a few relevant numbers for the mast rake, just to see how much the sail CoE will move forward with a wing instead of a teardrop mast + sail.

The wing has no leech and pulley block to retain the rig to move alone forward, so a minimum rake is required from the design table.

But if classic rigs allow good foiling with  0° aft rake, I am f&#ked, the idea would not be that relevant

But with 3.5° to 4 ° aft rake, a wing will allow to move the foils closer to the main crossbeam

That is just insane curiosity,

Thanks to all

   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Erwankerauzen said:

Hi Mates, 

A few ° rake is not a good reason enough to fight on the forum, d'ont you appreciate this peaceful atmosphere without Doug getting on the nerves of everybody with his uptip obsession???

It is Holidays for Anarchists, just enjoy!!!

If I wish to get a few relevant numbers for the mast rake, just to see how much the sail CoE will move forward with a wing instead of a teardrop mast + sail.

The wing has no leech and pulley block to retain the rig to move alone forward, so a minimum rake is required from the design table.

But if classic rigs allow good foiling with  0° aft rake, I am f&#ked, the idea would not be that relevant

But with 3.5° to 4 ° aft rake, a wing will allow to move the foils closer to the main crossbeam

That is just insane curiosity,

Thanks to all

   

+1 to that. My point is more that I recommend folks investing in a good digital inclinometer so apples can be compared with like apples. I am starting to come round to the idea of more mast rake especially if foiling upwind...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sonofabitch said:

WnW are you some kind of moderator? No I think not. Erwanker has rights on this forum and you, you piece of Gold Coast Auzen effluent, have nothing.... 

You do know that what WnW posted is the forum tradition for greeting newbies. I think it is you who needs to STFU

As for rake, that depends on exactly which boat you have because it is a relationship between the CoE of the rig, the position of the boards and the distance between the boards and the rudders. All of these make a difference.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's ok ACS. I'm aware A bitch has been off his medication and not feeling himself lately. I've spent more time in Russia than on the Gold Coast in recent years and have developed some useful relationships. He needs to feel nervous. 

Anyway I'll be in Sopot tomorrow enjoying a few Tyskies with my comrades and won't give him a thought. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Weather-forecast looks better (hopefully more reliable now, Monday getting closer).

Interesting polish nationals, cool that the locals are fast - seems like (as always) sailors has to be fast AND go in the right direction at the same time.

 

 

sopot.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17 August 2017 at 6:33 AM, WetnWild said:

It's ok ACS. I'm aware A bitch has been off his medication and not feeling himself lately. I've spent more time in Russia than on the Gold Coast in recent years and have developed some useful relationships. He needs to feel nervous. 

Anyway I'll be in Sopot tomorrow enjoying a few Tyskies with my comrades and won't give him a thought. 

Russian ladies don't make me nervous. Does Mrs. WnnW know about this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sonofabitch said:

Russian ladies don't make me nervous. Does Mrs. WnnW know about this?

Thank you for your enquiry about Mrs WnW. She is very happy and has just purchased what she calls her lesbian sandals. She finds them most comfortable. I don't expect you to appreciate this as I understand your country has difficulties with such matters. 

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I have finally got fed up of the ill informed bullshit that has been posted, not least on the FP today, I couldn't keep quite any longer!. PJ should really not make comments about other manufacturers if he doesn't know what he is talking about. I realise that he wants publicity to sell his boats, but incorrect comments that put shade onto a competitor is wrong.

As stated, the DNA platform is the same as last year. PJ states that Exploder has moved the beams and foils around a lot this year, resulting in many different Exploders in order to get the right set up. Let's be very clear on this. There has been one small change this year from last year that makes zero difference speed wise. the rear beam has been moved back 100mm to give a little more room to get through the sail when tacking and gybing. I have sailed a boat with both beam positions and cannot tell the difference. In reality, there is no difference between the Exploders this year and what Stevie Brewin used last year. I understand a few have asked for different beam positions and because they have the flexibility to do so, Exploder have complied, but the important thing to know is that the standard customer boat, which both Bundy, Stevie and others are using is the same as last year. Stevie tells me that the intention is to keep it the same for next year as well, in order to provide some stability for customers, just like DNA have done.

Foil development has been interesting. To clear up things from the start, the new production board is the Z22 (the Z21 which PJ referred to was never made). It is actually the same the Z15, but the 15's had an issue with the head of the board being a couple of mm too big that meant that the sliders needed a small modification. The intention has always been to ensure that any new board could be slipped straight into the existing Z10 cases so a new mould has been made for the Z15 that ensures that they can be retrofitted to all boats that had the previous generation of board. The numbering is also misleading because a lot of the boards between Z10 (the previous production boards) and Z22 (the new production boards) only ever existed in the computer. From the customer point of view the situation has been good. Customers were never sold the interim test boards and so they have only got 1 upgrade to do. It should also be noted that all the new boats at this worlds come with the Z22's meaning that they are sailing with the same boards as the "works" drivers. 

I love the way there is an implied criticism of Exploder for trying a number of different foils. PJ claims "Exploder pushed foil development to the extreme by developing literally dozens of prototype foils and rudders". Do the sums. If last year we had Z10's and this year they are Z22's but some of the difference  were never made, how does that add up to "dozens"? In a number of cases, the development team have waited in Australia to get to try new foils because Exploder hasn't wanted to make many of the same iteration in order to keep costs down. On rudders, there has been some development on winglets and 2 different verticals have been tried. the good news is that for most, all they need to do is order a new set of winglets and stick them on their existing uprights. In fact, I was the first to try the bigger winglets and that is exactly what we did. I will not be buying new rudders because we cannot identify any difference between mine and the latest.

I would also suggest that PJ needs new glasses if he thinks the latest Exploder foils look like the DNA ones. I have seen them side by side and they look nothing like each other.

Moving to the rigs, it should be noted that our little training group has done a lot of work on this and in particular, the short rig. 8 weeks ago I would have said there was no way they would even take them to the worlds, never mind use them. Although Stevie used the short rig for some of the pre-worlds, Stevie and Bundy will be sailing with conventional tall rigs because of the forecast and the fact that the short rig hasn't been proven enough in light conditions. The short rig is just too much of a gamble in conditions we haven't tested in enough. What I can tell say is that there is little to no difference in ease of upwind foiling between the tall and short rig. Both take off in about the same wind strength. Both need the same technique. The only difference is in speed when foiling upwind. The short rig is faster. Downwind, I personally don't believe there is any noticeable difference in speed when foiling. Only time will tell if we can find a way of getting enough speed in lighter conditions.

As part of the development program, one of the team will be sailing with the short rig, namely Adam May (of Artemis). This is so we can collect more data and get feedback from a world class sailor and designer.

Based on all the testing we have done, I am pretty convinced that there is still a lot of development work to be done before we find the ultimate rig for the current boats. One thing I remain convinced of is going boomless. We tested both boom and boomless fairly recently and we all agreed that with the current Brewin sail, having a boom is slower. There is a lot that is "illogical" about it and there are times it looks wrong, but for some reason, that "wrong" is fast. I think people need to get rid of their preconceptions about how sails work and what looks right and wrong. By way of example, I way 65kgs and in 15 knots of breeze, I go slower upwind when I fit stiffer battens low down to get rid of what looks like far too much depth in the sail. As an aside, my lightweight gives me an edge downwind in almost all conditions. Once Stevie and Bundy had finally coached me enough, which took a long time, I got to the point where my VMG downwind was faster than Stevie, because while I am a little down on top speed, I can go lower. 6 months ago I thought being lightweight was a serious disadvantage. Now I believe I can compete at top level, although I need to be able to use the speed in a race situation. In my case, great speed helps me get to the wrong side of the course fast!

My hope is that they get enough breeze to showcase upwind foiling. I am sure there have been some huge gains in this area and it would be good to compare the various development groups so we know where we are. I think many people will be shocked at some of the upwind speeds being achieved.

What i do agree with PJ about is where we now are. With what can only be called a lot of luck, the A Class rules have led to us now having a truly wonderful boat. We have been forced to develop foils that give both speed and ease of sailing. Insert from above and leaving all foils down turns out to be the best way to go. I am convinced that without the effective limit on how  big the foils can be, we would have ended up with bigger foils that would have been barely any easier to use but would have been slower, because everybody would have developed inside the current 1500mm rule. The current boats are a joy to sail, if set up right. You do need to do your apprenticeship, but if an old git like me can manage, then most can get there. You don't need to sail full time, but don't think you can sail once a month and get good. The boats are actually really nicely behaved when set up right, probably better than the C foil boats. The thing that takes the biggest getting used to is the speed and the forces involved. I used to have a retaining line that I hooked on with so I wasn't thrown forward when trapezing at the back but now I know what I am doing, I have taken it off. Speeds are getting insane. "Cruising" at between 24 and 26 knots downwind seems almost an everyday thing and on flatish water, I would expect to sail for as far as I want without touching down. Recently, in about 12-15 knts, Stevie and I were sailing out to our training area downwind. We were close enough to talk to each other. When we stopped to regroup with others, Stevie pointed out we had gone close to 3kms without the speed dropping below 24.5 knots. We really weren't trying. If it was just Stevie, you would say it as all down to skill but when a short 58 year old "has been" can do it as well, it shows what a great boat we now have.

Let's see what happens at the worlds. I don't want to make any predictions or give away any more details of speeds, not least because what you can do training on your home water can be very different from what happens on the race track. If we get decent breeze, what I do know is that whoever wins is going to put on quite a show. If it stays light to medium and very shifty, the winner will have put on an amazing display of smart sailing. Let battle commence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome back Simon, good to get an update on developments in Australia. I sail a classic A in NQ and miss out on sailing with other A's and the latest trends. Look forward to more reports and if all goes to plan participating in the Nationals and Worlds at Hervey Bay 2018. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Welcome back Simon, good to get an update on developments in Australia. I sail a classic A in NQ and miss out on sailing with other A's and the latest trends. Look forward to more reports and if all goes to plan participating in the Nationals and Worlds at Hervey Bay 2018. 

Yes welcome back Simon and no you don't have to show us your tits again. We are still trying to get over the mental anguish of last time!

Good commentary although I believe the DNA/Exploder rant is a little harsh. I've owned and enjoyed both so hope I can be objective. It's early days here in Sopot and much more to learn about what both manufacturers have brought to the table. The Exploders all seem to have been delivered with Z22 as you mentioned. Some have hard tramps and some soft. Some have the rear beam moved and some not but I'll check on the production date of the latter. A couple have the reversed rudders although one has already been changed back yesterday. Some have full tracks and some short. Some of this is at buyer request but not all. 

Ill try and get more and some photos over the coming days. 

One thing that Exploder need to do better is delivering boats which measure. Most of the centreboards are not measuring for max width. This has been a continuing problem but it has gotten worse. One I saw yesterday had 20mm to cut off each side of the blades. 

Sailors will need to be very careful that their gear is ok for the random and designated measuring after each session on the water. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, WetnWild said:

Good commentary although I believe the DNA/Exploder rant is a little harsh.

This was not a rant about DNA as such. I believe them to be very good boats and i hope that nothing I have said above contradicts that. The point I was making was simply that PJ was saying things that weren't correct and which, IMO, were worded negatively towards Exploder.

31 minutes ago, WetnWild said:

One thing that Exploder need to do better is delivering boats which measure. Most of the centreboards are not measuring for max width. This has been a continuing problem but it has gotten worse. One I saw yesterday had 20mm to cut off each side of the blades. 

Sailors will need to be very careful that their gear is ok for the random and designated measuring after each session on the water. 

This has been a problem on every boat I have measured. What is more of a concern is that boats are meant to come to the worlds having already been measured. Does this mean that some measurers are ignoring this measurement? I can accept the odd boat being out - the day after i measured a DNA you remeasured it and wanted another 5mm off - but to have a load of them not measuring seems wrong.

38 minutes ago, WetnWild said:

Some have hard tramps and some soft. Some have the rear beam moved and some not but I'll check on the production date of the latter. A couple have the reversed rudders although one has already been changed back yesterday. Some have full tracks and some short. Some of this is at buyer request but not all. 

I think that most of this has been the choice of owners. For instance, I knew about the hard tramp a while ago, but Bundy and Stevie didn't want it because the traveller is above deck and you cannot have an under tramp mainsheet system. The Australians have gone with Stevie's views, which isn't surprising seeing how he organised all the boats! While some might say that the DNA and now Exploder hard tramp top is low drag, I believe that because of the mainsheet and other systems, the layout and tramp developed by Stevie and Bundy is actually an overall lower windage set up. I understand that the full track vs short track is also a personal thing as was the reversed rudders. The track length is a really interesting one. We did a lot of testing on this because we were worried about light wind performance on a run. What is strange is that with the bottom of the sail not out "properly" because of the short track, you would have thought performance would be worse but the truth is that you cannot measure any difference in performance. Then I read somewhere (maybe Frank Bethwaite) that in those sort of light conditions, the bottom 25% doesn't do anything. The short traveller is more of an issue if you don't have the mainsheet system spot on and the right length. I have to admit there are times when I wish I could ease even more, but it has never caused me a real problem, except psychologically, but i won't go back to a full track.

The class is lucky to have 2 prominent and good builders at the moment, with others also offering boats. Choice is great and it keeps the builders on their toes. I think it is also good that one builder offers a very standard product while another allows you to customise your boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SimonN said:

This was not a rant about DNA as such. I believe them to be very good boats and i hope that nothing I have said above contradicts that. The point I was making was simply that PJ was saying things that weren't correct and which, IMO, were worded negatively towards Exploder.

This has been a problem on every boat I have measured. What is more of a concern is that boats are meant to come to the worlds having already been measured. Does this mean that some measurers are ignoring this measurement? I can accept the odd boat being out - the day after i measured a DNA you remeasured it and wanted another 5mm off - but to have a load of them not measuring seems wrong.

I think that most of this has been the choice of owners. For instance, I knew about the hard tramp a while ago, but Bundy and Stevie didn't want it because the traveller is above deck and you cannot have an under tramp mainsheet system. The Australians have gone with Stevie's views, which isn't surprising seeing how he organised all the boats! While some might say that the DNA and now Exploder hard tramp top is low drag, I believe that because of the mainsheet and other systems, the layout and tramp developed by Stevie and Bundy is actually an overall lower windage set up. I understand that the full track vs short track is also a personal thing as was the reversed rudders. The track length is a really interesting one. We did a lot of testing on this because we were worried about light wind performance on a run. What is strange is that with the bottom of the sail not out "properly" because of the short track, you would have thought performance would be worse but the truth is that you cannot measure any difference in performance. Then I read somewhere (maybe Frank Bethwaite) that in those sort of light conditions, the bottom 25% doesn't do anything. The short traveller is more of an issue if you don't have the mainsheet system spot on and the right length. I have to admit there are times when I wish I could ease even more, but it has never caused me a real problem, except psychologically, but i won't go back to a full track.

The class is lucky to have 2 prominent and good builders at the moment, with others also offering boats. Choice is great and it keeps the builders on their toes. I think it is also good that one builder offers a very standard product while another allows you to customise your boat.

Yes I understand how this variation occurs with the boat builds. I personally don't have a problem with it as I'm from the old school where every single boat was different and we mostly built our own in the true spirit of development. Then along came Bimare and Boyer who essentially built standard boats. We were all aghast and thought they were ruining the class. Of course the reverse ended up being true and they contributed greatly. 

This is all fine for the likes of us who are deeply embedded in the class but to the average punter it can seem a bit bewildering to see so many beam positions, board positions, boards, rudders, hull shapes etc etc in a relatively short time. And this is only for new buyers. The second hand buyers have a very difficult task sorting out what is what. 

It is fact that it is easier to know what is what on a DNA compared to an Exploder over the last five years. Agree they are both great builders just with a different approach. 

Sopot report: coolish, with a drizzle earlier and a bit of breeze. Coffee is good and the battery drills are out. Boat park banter is rampant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought the A Class is a development class, I guess that's what we are seeing. :D

Nice to see you back Simon and best of sailing for all the competitors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On measuring Simon the boats not meeting are those delivered to the venue to their new owners or those leasing and found to be non-compliant in their fundamental measurement by their local measurer. No measurement checking has occurred yet by the event official as that only happens once the regatta starts after each session on the water. Hence my earlier suggestion that people need to be sure their boat complies. Perhaps it is wise to be a few mm under!

Indeed I did find one of your certified boats to be out at an event. That is the job of an event official! At the same event I found a World Sailing certified measurers boat to be outside a limit. Not a case of trying to cheat in either case. Simply measurements to such fine tolerances can vary on different occasions under different conditions. In both cases we measured and remeasured in the presence of the boat owners and they agreed the tape didn't lie. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Simon on the short track and downwind. I was thinking maybe the smaller heads are helping there . We used to find in light air with pinheads last century that twist worked better  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One note on measurement: tapes lie!!!! They can lie badly!!! I have a 4' hard ruler that is off by 1/8" over half that length. Unless you are using a NIST or equivalent certified tape, which is a relatively expensive piece of equipment, I wouldn't trust your measurement and certainly wouldn't go cutting my foils to comply for a <5mm issue. This isn't to say the boards are all installed within measurement from the factory; because of the bearing system Exploder use and the inherent slop, there is enough play in the setup to have out of tolerance boards rather easily.

My advice for the class measurers is to have some 1500mm nylon or delrin square stock machined. Quality CNC machines are accurate to several thousandths over the distances we are discussing, and materials with low coefficients of thermal expansion will maintain an accurate dimension over time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, samc99us said:

One note on measurement: tapes lie!!!! They can lie badly!!! I have a 4' hard ruler that is off by 1/8" over half that length. Unless you are using a NIST or equivalent certified tape, which is a relatively expensive piece of equipment, I wouldn't trust your measurement and certainly wouldn't go cutting my foils to comply for a <5mm issue. This isn't to say the boards are all installed within measurement from the factory; because of the bearing system Exploder use and the inherent slop, there is enough play in the setup to have out of tolerance boards rather easily.

My advice for the class measurers is to have some 1500mm nylon or delrin square stock machined. Quality CNC machines are accurate to several thousandths over the distances we are discussing, and materials with low coefficients of thermal expansion will maintain an accurate dimension over time.

Sorry Sam we take advice from World Sailing and their officials, not you. In the instances mentioned three different tapes were used and all concurred with the carefully prepared alloy measuring stick we use. Same will occur in Sopot as per world standard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You take advice from them because you are forced to, or risk forfeiting your regatta. Do those WS officials have certifications in hand that their tapes are accurate? Do they follow approved and mandated quality control procedures? Are these officials certified in weights and measure? Who is verifying that they are operating with complete fairness???? Btw I built my converted boat with the aide of a U.S class measurer and it was me that forced double checking measurements and conferring the rule book. So trusting an "official" isn't always advisable, especially when said official has no financial interest in your boat or $$ foil package.

I am glad to hear the they are using an alloy stick, which is in-line with my statement above. BTW I figured this tape situation out after carefully measuring some precision cut tooling and quickly noting a large error between my non certified tape and the tool. Fortunately it was the tape and not the expensive tool that was the issue.

The bottom line is the boats ought to be built on the - side of the tolerance and to hear that they are still leaving the production facility out of measure is disheartening. Both DNA and Exploder really ought to have a quality control team but this would increase the price of the boats. DNA may soon be forced to or possibly risk some expensive claims from foiling trimaran owners. They are already re-building 150 Z boards for the N17-that ought to say something about their QC department.

good luck and happy foiling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam as a class we sought and obtained IYRU status as an international class and continue to enjoy World Sailing imprimatur to this day. They administer the sport of sailing and our class follows their rules. 

I'm sorry you have no confidence in your USACA measurer. Perhaps you could take that up with USACA who are able to seek advice from the Technical Committee. 

When I measure in my jurisdiction I do so with two tapes designated for that purpose and checked against the official stick prepared by my country's Chief measurer. He is a World Sailing certified measurer and I have confidence in his training and skills. 

Your last para I agree with and was the point I made earlier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our local measurer is competent, just been out of the class and not keeping up with the foiling development as much as others. 

I'm glad to hear that is the case of the WS measurers. Not much experience with that here as none of the catamaran classes I race in employ WS certified measurement at the National level.

Any updates in breeze from Sopot? Any radical changes being made after polish nationals? Sounds like the D3's are foiling with stability and speed, which is very good for Exploder. Fingers crossed they can secure a gold to put DNA back under pressure to perform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No not much happening today. Just a lot of fixing retuning and general preparation. Wind a bit fickle so those out on the water not learning much. Practice race tomorrow so a bit more will happen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/08/2017 at 6:57 AM, SimonN said:

So I have finally got fed up of the ill informed bullshit that has been posted, not least on the FP today, I couldn't keep quite any longer!. PJ should really not make comments about other manufacturers if he doesn't know what he is talking about. I realise that he wants publicity to sell his boats, but incorrect comments that put shade onto a competitor is wrong.

As stated, the DNA platform is the same as last year. PJ states that Exploder has moved the beams and foils around a lot this year, resulting in many different Exploders in order to get the right set up. Let's be very clear on this. There has been one small change this year from last year that makes zero difference speed wise. the rear beam has been moved back 100mm to give a little more room to get through the sail when tacking and gybing. I have sailed a boat with both beam positions and cannot tell the difference. In reality, there is no difference between the Exploders this year and what Stevie Brewin used last year. I understand a few have asked for different beam positions and because they have the flexibility to do so, Exploder have complied, but the important thing to know is that the standard customer boat, which both Bundy, Stevie and others are using is the same as last year. Stevie tells me that the intention is to keep it the same for next year as well, in order to provide some stability for customers, just like DNA have done.

Foil development has been interesting. To clear up things from the start, the new production board is the Z22 (the Z21 which PJ referred to was never made). It is actually the same the Z15, but the 15's had an issue with the head of the board being a couple of mm too big that meant that the sliders needed a small modification. The intention has always been to ensure that any new board could be slipped straight into the existing Z10 cases so a new mould has been made for the Z15 that ensures that they can be retrofitted to all boats that had the previous generation of board. The numbering is also misleading because a lot of the boards between Z10 (the previous production boards) and Z22 (the new production boards) only ever existed in the computer. From the customer point of view the situation has been good. Customers were never sold the interim test boards and so they have only got 1 upgrade to do. It should also be noted that all the new boats at this worlds come with the Z22's meaning that they are sailing with the same boards as the "works" drivers. 

I love the way there is an implied criticism of Exploder for trying a number of different foils. PJ claims "Exploder pushed foil development to the extreme by developing literally dozens of prototype foils and rudders". Do the sums. If last year we had Z10's and this year they are Z22's but some of the difference  were never made, how does that add up to "dozens"? In a number of cases, the development team have waited in Australia to get to try new foils because Exploder hasn't wanted to make many of the same iteration in order to keep costs down. On rudders, there has been some development on winglets and 2 different verticals have been tried. the good news is that for most, all they need to do is order a new set of winglets and stick them on their existing uprights. In fact, I was the first to try the bigger winglets and that is exactly what we did. I will not be buying new rudders because we cannot identify any difference between mine and the latest.

I would also suggest that PJ needs new glasses if he thinks the latest Exploder foils look like the DNA ones. I have seen them side by side and they look nothing like each other.

Moving to the rigs, it should be noted that our little training group has done a lot of work on this and in particular, the short rig. 8 weeks ago I would have said there was no way they would even take them to the worlds, never mind use them. Although Stevie used the short rig for some of the pre-worlds, Stevie and Bundy will be sailing with conventional tall rigs because of the forecast and the fact that the short rig hasn't been proven enough in light conditions. The short rig is just too much of a gamble in conditions we haven't tested in enough. What I can tell say is that there is little to no difference in ease of upwind foiling between the tall and short rig. Both take off in about the same wind strength. Both need the same technique. The only difference is in speed when foiling upwind. The short rig is faster. Downwind, I personally don't believe there is any noticeable difference in speed when foiling. Only time will tell if we can find a way of getting enough speed in lighter conditions.

As part of the development program, one of the team will be sailing with the short rig, namely Adam May (of Artemis). This is so we can collect more data and get feedback from a world class sailor and designer.

Based on all the testing we have done, I am pretty convinced that there is still a lot of development work to be done before we find the ultimate rig for the current boats. One thing I remain convinced of is going boomless. We tested both boom and boomless fairly recently and we all agreed that with the current Brewin sail, having a boom is slower. There is a lot that is "illogical" about it and there are times it looks wrong, but for some reason, that "wrong" is fast. I think people need to get rid of their preconceptions about how sails work and what looks right and wrong. By way of example, I way 65kgs and in 15 knots of breeze, I go slower upwind when I fit stiffer battens low down to get rid of what looks like far too much depth in the sail. As an aside, my lightweight gives me an edge downwind in almost all conditions. Once Stevie and Bundy had finally coached me enough, which took a long time, I got to the point where my VMG downwind was faster than Stevie, because while I am a little down on top speed, I can go lower. 6 months ago I thought being lightweight was a serious disadvantage. Now I believe I can compete at top level, although I need to be able to use the speed in a race situation. In my case, great speed helps me get to the wrong side of the course fast!

My hope is that they get enough breeze to showcase upwind foiling. I am sure there have been some huge gains in this area and it would be good to compare the various development groups so we know where we are. I think many people will be shocked at some of the upwind speeds being achieved.

What i do agree with PJ about is where we now are. With what can only be called a lot of luck, the A Class rules have led to us now having a truly wonderful boat. We have been forced to develop foils that give both speed and ease of sailing. Insert from above and leaving all foils down turns out to be the best way to go. I am convinced that without the effective limit on how  big the foils can be, we would have ended up with bigger foils that would have been barely any easier to use but would have been slower, because everybody would have developed inside the current 1500mm rule. The current boats are a joy to sail, if set up right. You do need to do your apprenticeship, but if an old git like me can manage, then most can get there. You don't need to sail full time, but don't think you can sail once a month and get good. The boats are actually really nicely behaved when set up right, probably better than the C foil boats. The thing that takes the biggest getting used to is the speed and the forces involved. I used to have a retaining line that I hooked on with so I wasn't thrown forward when trapezing at the back but now I know what I am doing, I have taken it off. Speeds are getting insane. "Cruising" at between 24 and 26 knots downwind seems almost an everyday thing and on flatish water, I would expect to sail for as far as I want without touching down. Recently, in about 12-15 knts, Stevie and I were sailing out to our training area downwind. We were close enough to talk to each other. When we stopped to regroup with others, Stevie pointed out we had gone close to 3kms without the speed dropping below 24.5 knots. We really weren't trying. If it was just Stevie, you would say it as all down to skill but when a short 58 year old "has been" can do it as well, it shows what a great boat we now have.

Let's see what happens at the worlds. I don't want to make any predictions or give away any more details of speeds, not least because what you can do training on your home water can be very different from what happens on the race track. If we get decent breeze, what I do know is that whoever wins is going to put on quite a show. If it stays light to medium and very shifty, the winner will have put on an amazing display of smart sailing. Let battle commence.

I fully agree with Simon. Downwind foiling has become so boringly easy that while chatting with the neighbors I keep myself busy by knitting a pull-over for next winter.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, erikM said:

I fully agree with Simon. Downwind foiling has become so boringly easy that while chatting with the neighbors I keep myself busy by knitting a pull-over for next winter.

 

I never said it has become boring! It's the most fun I have had sailing probably ever. I cannot overstate how much I am in love with our boats and the sailing which is why i have done more sailing this year than I have probably done in the last 10 years put together, and that includes 3 seasons of 18' skiffs. I cannot get enough of it.

What i was trying to say, obviously very badly, is that set up right with the correct gear the boats are a dream to sail. Once you get the boat set up and you reprogramme yourself so that what you need to do to keep a boat foiling is natural, the boats stop being scary. I read a lot of shit by non A Class sailors who tell people how hard A's are to foil, despite the fact they have never sailed one. 

There is one strange thing. Once you get used to one particular speed "zone", it doesn't take much more for it to become scary again (yes, i know that contradicts what i said above!). I guess that when i started, 22 knots was crazy scary. Then I got a bit used to it. You would have thought going from 22 to 24 wasn't that big a jump but it is huge. 24 to 26 is another leap. My top speed is 28 knots and that is crazy. Each of these 2 knot leaps feel like you have actually gone 5-6 knots faster, not 2. I keep expecting to see the GPS go to some huge number and then I find that in reality, it is only a little faster.

The other strange thing is that any speed foiling upwind feels 5-6 knots faster than it actually is. I get the same sense of OMG as I do at the highest speeds I have achieved downwind. It feels so much more out of control and I cannot explain it. It's not just because it is harder and needs more technique. It just feels so on the edge all the time. I would love to get a heart rate monitor on me.

What i do know is that the best thing is however good you get on these, all it does is open new possibilities and I am sure we are some way off maximum. The Moths seem to be tailing off a bit in terms of increasing performance. I think we still have some way to go. The top guys are now faster upwind than a moth in a straight line, although we lose out because of the lack of foiling tacks. Downwind, i think we are still a little off in speed but not bad in VMG. I used to believe we would never be faster than a moth around a course. Now I think it is just a matter of time before we are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sopot report: Practice race has been run for the two fleets. Breeze was light and fickle with foiling sometimes. 132 boats in total I think. Nobody really cares who won. The parade in the city square is being held tonight and racing gets serious tomorrow. 

Update for Simon: I promised earlier to check how many beam positions are currently being produced by Exploder. There currently being produced boats with three different beam positions. These are called "standard" "Polish" and "Australian". A fourth single boat was recently produced differently again at customer request. The information came first hand from someone who would definitely know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Practice-race yesterday, good fun, rather tricky but that's how racing also should be.

 

Nothing to conclude, but old school boats did well in the hardly any trapezing condition nor flying. But also some with short rigs, so it doesn't seem to harm performance that much. 

 

Some of the frontrunners go for short rigs (masts looks so cute), boats can't be changed after 13.00 yesterday.

 

Weathetforcast looks good for the coming days.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One day doesn't make a championship, but what it does say s that all the training that Bundy, Stevie and I did was worthwhile. Usually, i forecast a Stevie win at a worlds and have only been right once in 6 years, so I have been pretty careful not to make a forecast and certainly don't think that based on today Stevie and Bundy have it in the bag. There is a log way to go and conditions will change. I am concerned about the lighter stuff because we simply haven't done enough training and developing in those conditions.

What i can now say is that I knew that their upwind pace on foils was pretty unbelievable and it would need something very special to keep up with them. the focus of the last 6 months has been on sustained speed, so headline speeds have meant little. The other problem has been that we train on pretty flat water and we didn't know how the speed would translate in waves. 

Another thing to consider when you look at the gaps they opened up is that in those conditions, they are noticeably faster with the short rig. They decided they couldn't risk the short rig because they don't yet have the confidence in it when it goes light and they felt confident they would be fast enough with the tall rig in breeze. Do you really need to win by many minutes or just cross the line first.

I agreed I wouldn't tell the full story of speeds, but in flat water and 15 knots, the new target for people is to be constantly over 20 knots and pointing equal or higher than a non foiling boat. When i say constantly, i mean all the time between tacks. We have also worked hard on what we call "transitions", when to switch between foiling and not foiling but going high instead. There are huge gains to be made understanding this.

I went to bed a happy man after seeing the results last night. If it stays above 10 knots, it will take a very special effort to catch Stevie and Bundy. If it gets lighter, I really don't know. A log way to go, but it seems to me that the Australian beam position and boomless sails aren't exactly slow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only thing we can say for sure is that Mischa will be pissed to have used up a drop on the first day in a regatta that looks like it could have some changeable conditions.  But then a capsize and an extra lap will do that.

edit: and that Stevie and Bundy will be pleased they started the regatta in different group allowing them both to clock up some bullets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Board posn is what i am interested in and how much difference it makes. Stevie says new boat at 400mm. Am i correct in thinking his old boat was at 500mm?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since writing the above comments, I have learnt a bit more. Bundy sailed conservatively doing what he needed to win. On the other hand, Stevie doesn't seem to know how to do that. In our last training session before he left Australia, it was blowing 20-25 knots and Stevie was sending it so hard yet always in total control. It seems like he carried that on in the second race, winning by big margins despite cruising down the last run. 2 minutes in those conditions is around 800 metres ahead.:o

The most pleasing thing for me is to hear that Bundy was quick both upwind and downwind. There was a slight concern that he might have been a few boat lengths slower on the runs. Depth seems to have been the key and there are different modes when going for speed or depth. Again, this is where some focus too much on maximum speed. Some of Stevie's highest boat speeds have come when I have actually been able to achieve better VMG by being slower and lower.

As for Mischa, yes, he must be kicking himself but most of all about not being able to count because the capsize only cost him 1 place. The report says it was because  Stevie was so far ahead Mischa couldn'r see him go to the finish!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Rawhide said:

Board posn is what i am interested in and how much difference it makes. Stevie says new boat at 400mm. Am i correct in thinking his old boat was at 500mm?

Stevie's old boat, which he won the Nationals with, also has the boards in the same position. The only difference between the boats is that the rear beam has been moved back 100mm which has been done to give a little more room under the sail for swapping sides. i don't think there is any speed implication in that change. Most of the other new generation of Exploders that were brought in to Australia just before the Nationals have this set up. Bundy tried a different set up with the main beam and boards further forward when he first arrived in Europe (Polish spec???) but decided that the Australian spec was better.

We have talked about this a lot. One of our little sailing group (Johno) has modified his boat to put the cases even further forward and we have concluded that it is probably easier to sail and "safer" but it is more draggy. I am totally convinced by the current beam and board positions. An interesting thing for me is that the front beam is now back to where it was 15 years ago. What goes around, comes around!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bradshaw in top 8 deserves a mention. Hasn't sailed nearly as much as Simons team after selling his boat in Feb. Whitepointer would be proud. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed about Brayshaw. I think since February he only sailed for the short time he joined us up in NSW. It's good to see him on an equal boat again as he has exactly the same spec as the others. I expect to see the results improve over the week.

I will also give a shout out to a "remote" team member, Adam May. Adam took delivery of his boat at the event, fitted it out and got 1 day sailing in light conditions before the event. Other than that, he had 3 days practice a month ago in Spain on a borrowed boat. He is using a Stevie short sail on a short DNA mast, which is a real experiment as it was totally untested before the event and he has chosen to "take one for the team" so we can learn from this. I think for a non A Class sailor to get a 6 and 10 first time racing with a new rig is exciting both for him and for the rig. Maybe designing AC50's and then watching them sail around gives you some real insight into how to sail an A ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the current standard/Australian Exploder front beam position from the transom?

Anyone good friends with the Scheurer boys to get beam and trunk numbers of the G7? Top Swiss boat sitting in 3rd, for me this is the platform to watch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a great performance by the Australians overnight! 3 in the top 10, 5 in the top 20. Stevie must be pleased to have 4 boats in the top 10 with his sail. 8 out of the top 10 boats are Exploder.  A long way to go, but a good first day for Australia.

One more performance to note. Well done to a young Zac Heuchmer. Leading junior by a long way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, samc99us said:

What is the current standard/Australian Exploder front beam position from the transom?

Anyone good friends with the Scheurer boys to get beam and trunk numbers of the G7? Top Swiss boat sitting in 3rd, for me this is the platform to watch.

I haven't got the numbers, but I believe that the beams are in exactly the same position as on a Flyer 1, if anybody has that number.

Why do you think that the Scheurer is the one to watch? Maybe I have a biased, but I don't see how people can look past the Exploder. It performs and is the cheapest of the new boats. I do like the look of the expended tramp on the Scheurer, but I am not sure I would spend any extra to get it. I am also uncertain how much difference platforms really make. So long as the platform is good enough, it seems to me that the foils are key. You would say that the DNA platform is the ultimate, but I get the impression they have been struggling for speed in all conditions. With the quality of their sailors, that has got to mean the issue is the foils. Today should have favoured Mischa because of his size and his great sailing skills but he couldn't get close to Stevie Brewin. In those conditions, in equal boats, I think you would favour Mischa.

I

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

Maybe I have a biased, but I don't see how people can look past the Exploder. It performs and is the cheapest of the new boats.

I would put forward a different view. For many, performance is only part of the equation. Take a beautiful boat like the DNA and there will be people who would want to own one even if it wasn't the very fastest boat available today. It's part of the overall ownership experience. I know people in the monohull world who buy wooden boats wehn composite ones are considered faster. They acknowledge they aren't going to win so their buying criteria becomes something different from just which is faster that  I  wouldn't buy a DNA, but not because of performance or even price but because it would have left me only peripheral to the team development programme. Owning an AD3 has meant that we had 3 of them and could test so many more set ups.

Early days, but I expect that DNA will need to do some foil development following this event. hopefully they will come up with something that will allow people to simply plug in new foils to existing platforms.

Overall, we aren't doing bad as a class with the boats that are available. Of course, like ACS, I am biased toward Exploder, but I think it is wrong not to acknowledge that other builders.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt anyone would buy a DNA if they thought it slower. We buy because we think any package is potentially fastest and look to the results of nationals and worlds to confirm  

DNA wasn't slower last worlds with Gashby and Mischa is not done yet.  

Some hot Auzen sailors are taking delivery of F1 soon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the NZ nationals. We had a good range of boats and I'm modifying my ASG3, so I wanted to get an idea of where all the platforms are at.

Measurements for a good selection of platforms below.

Untitled.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Sonofabitch said:

I doubt anyone would buy a DNA if they thought it slower. We buy because we think any package is potentially fastest and look to the results of nationals and worlds to confirm  

DNA wasn't slower last worlds with Gashby and Mischa is not done yet.  

Some hot Auzen sailors are taking delivery of F1 soon

We will agree to disagree. I think many are smarter than making their buying decisions just based on the results of the best sailors in the world. I believe that people have decided to buy DNA just because they look the coolest boat ever built available to the public and most realise that the differences in performance are probably beyond their capabilities. It works the other way around as well. people bought Exploders during a period that most thought the DNA had an edge.

Anybody who selects a boat because of Glenn's performance on that boat is being very naive. He won a worlds with a total dog of a boat (ASG3) which he then chartered to Mitch Booth for the Australian nationals. Mitch left after 2 days because the boat was so slow which caused a bit of friction between the 2 of them. The contrast between the 2 performances showed us just how good Glenn is.

Last year was a long time ago. The Exploders have developed on a long way since then. the foils are very different so what happened a year ago is now irrelevant.

I agree Mischa is not done yet, but he is one man. When you look at what has happened over the last week with the pre-worlds and now today, it is pretty clear that the game has moved on while DNA have stated they still are using the same gear. Many things can happen in a championship, but I look at what has been going on and I see that in general, the Exploders have been faster than the DNA's in all conditions experienced so far. Seeing we have had racing in conditions ranging from the minimum up to the maximum, I think we already have a pretty good idea of relative speeds. Last year Mischa was untouchable upwind by Stevie who managed to pace him downhill occasionally. Now Stevie is light years ahead in conditions that should favour Mischa. At very least, you can no longer say that DNA have an advantage, which is what most have believed up until now. That is why 2 Oz guns have bought F1's. They thought they were buying the fastest boats. Wangi is going to be very interesting. I think there will be some disappointed people once the dust settles, although i will make no predictions as to who it will be.

6 minutes ago, SC65 said:

All about numbers? Who do you trust?? :D

I will give you a clue. Don't trust Bundy's numbers:lol:  Stevie's are actually what he uses.

The video is a bit of fun but without knowing what boat they are sailing, where the beams and foils are, exactly which foils, rudders and rudder winglets are being used, the numbers are pretty meaningless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure where you guys find the best info? It seems the facebook page from the International A-Division Catamaran Association is doing a decent job in posting updates like daily reports and photo galleries. The Polish people were doing some nice videos on Vimeo before, but not sure where to find them?

http://www.a-cat.org/?q=node%2F1045&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Seemingly it wasn't the capsize which did cost Hemskerk a good finish position, but rather a miscounting of the number of laps he had sailed. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good fun here in Sopot. 3-9 m/s yesterday, mostly in the upper part. Rather shifty, but nothing drastic.

I was on bravo and it looked pretty cool with boats flying upwind. Only a few seems to make it work (Aus, Sui, Pol), but that really stretched their lead (I couldn't see what was going on). The rest of the front is rather close, changing position a lot. I was on the outside, struggling upwind with a sail that only works periodically and downwind with consistency. Good fun anyway, I like to have more racedays like this:- )

And the c- or straights-boarders are totally gone, nowhere near the front. Really two different disciplines in a breeze.

A lot of post-measuring (10 boats), some not complying, to large sail-area and other infringements.

Forecast for today predicts 3-4 m/s, while changing from west to north. Hopefully we can get some good racing anyway.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SC65 said:

Seemingly it wasn't the capsize which did cost Hemskerk a good finish position, but rather a miscounting of the number of laps he had sailed. :rolleyes:

As discussed above by 2 of us many hours ago ;)

 

7 minutes ago, SC65 said:

Not sure where you guys find the best info?

There are at least 2 facebook pages

https://www.facebook.com/aclassworlds2017/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/644102839122404/

There is a website

http://aclassworlds2017.pl/test/

There is also a WhatsAp group that I think you can get a link from one of the 3 above.

It is also worth checking out
http://www.catsailingnews.com/

Some of us are in direct contact with wives and friends on support boats and try to post updates if we can.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SimonN said:

Anybody who selects a boat because of Glenn's performance on that boat is being very naive.

 

Wow, I wonder what Dalton would say about that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sonofabitch said:

Wow, I wonder what Dalton would say about that!

Hahahaha! Although if the rumours are true, they are going with a monohull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest news is that they are about to be hit by a storm. Official announcement to batten down the hatches. Unlikely to get any racing today but it's not been canned yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SimonN said:

Latest news is that they are about to be hit by a storm. Official announcement to batten down the hatches. Unlikely to get any racing today but it's not been canned yet.

Bullshit. I'm looking at blue sky. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, juniordave nz said:

From the NZ nationals. We had a good range of boats and I'm modifying my ASG3, so I wanted to get an idea of where all the platforms are at.

Measurements for a good selection of platforms below.

Untitled.jpg

Good data points

2015 DNA:

A: 2575mm

B: 1950mm

D: 625mm

I don't have the rear beam numbers.

I wonder which Exploder AD3 you have numbers for. The new boats are at 400mm for measurement D. That is where I put the boards in my Flyers and my front beam is in the same location so I'm in pretty tall cotton once I bond my beams in. The newer boats are a bit stiffer than mine and have well refined aero packages plus newer rigs, the latter being where the development has really been despite the new Exploder foils showing their might.

Recall that last Worlds there were more Exploders in the top 10 than DNA F1's. I agree the DNA is a very nice package but I don't think the boat is worth the premium over the Exploder. To me the Scheurer might be worth the premium over the Exploder as they really went all out for a boat that can foil upwind and with a sailor that is skilled but not at the level of Bundy/Brewin/Mischa they showed great performance in breeze. The only way I would buy a Scheurer though is if my local training partner did, and/or more were sailed in the U.S. Right now the U.S is becoming fairly Exploder dominant with a U.S based dealer and good support from Poland, plus the pricing making the DNA a hard sell. I also think the fit and finish on the newest Exploders is very high, they just require a fair bit of rigging work but all boats do to some extent.

All in all having 3 competitive manufacturers is very good for the class and I expect numbers to keep growing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WetnWild said:

Bullshit. I'm looking at blue sky. 

You should have read the official website which said batten down the hatches. It was on their WhatsAp feed warning all competitors. I also got the following text from Mel Brewin just before I posted

Quote

Water is like a pond. I don't think they will sail today at all. We just about to be hit again by a massive storm. They've told everyone to batten down

Do you want me to also post the picture she sent me of the building thunderstorm which I believe has now hit leading to sailing being canned for the day. After receiving that text I spoke to 3 people who are there and they all said the same thing.

so why are you being an arse trying to undermine me? Strange you are there and I know more than you. Did you look out the window and see blue sky in one direction and not look the other way? Or are you just being a dick?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to be abusive Simon. My picture and opinion were posted live while we were sitting around waiting for a race committee decision to be made. The boats were sent in because there was little wind and a possibility of a storm from out the back. The warnings were precautionary and quite rightly so. Racing now called off for the day as its getting late and not enough breeze to get out to the course in time. There have been a couple of rain squalls but only enough to make the rain jacket useful and build a few puddles. 

We all realise you'd love to be here but you're not. However keep going as you're great entertainment for the boys when we have nothing else to do. A little information is often dangerous but certainly good fun. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sonofabitch said:

I'm still waiting to hear how the lesbian sandals are performing...

Thank you for asking. I'm told they are more than adequate. Do you want a pair?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, WetnWild said:

No need to be abusive Simon. My picture and opinion were posted live while we were sitting around waiting for a race committee decision to be made. The boats were sent in because there was little wind and a possibility of a storm from out the back. The warnings were precautionary and quite rightly so. Racing now called off for the day as its getting late and not enough breeze to get out to the course in time. There have been a couple of rain squalls but only enough to make the rain jacket useful and build a few puddles. 

We all realise you'd love to be here but you're not. However keep going as you're great entertainment for the boys when we have nothing else to do. A little information is often dangerous but certainly good fun. 

It's funny you don't think writing "bullshit" about one of my posts was abusive? Seriously? And it's not as if what i posted was wrong. With the message I posted above from Mel i also got a picture of dark clouds coming. The race office had just told everybody to tie their boats down. Maybe your perspective of things is a bit different from other people's, but when a good friend sends me a message I trust her and when the race office also posts the same thing, I share it. What do you do? Nothing. If you are on site and are posting, why not post something useful?

Woke up this morning to a new message from Mel 

Quote

POL31 got hit by lightning... black DNA. Thankfully he is OK and so are all the sailors... they shouldn't have sent them out. Too dangerous.

Also went onto Facebook for news and the first thing I find is a message from the worlds f/b page that says "Racing cancelled due to expected thunderstorms". So WnW, I think I will continue to trust my sources over your "bullshit";)

Latest news is that tomorrow, the racing begins at 10.00am with 2 races to complete the qualifying series. then back to shore and the fleets will be split into gold and silver. Then there will be 1 race of the finals.

Forecast, for what it's worth, says there will be 13-18 knots tomorrow, Thursday is looking like 12-15 knotsin the morning dying to light and shite in the afternoon while Friday will 16-20 knots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Polish boat Lars mentioned smells of smoke in one hull.  The sailor is OK but shaken and is in surpassingly good spirits.  The mast apparently has some waves at the top but is still OK for now too.  Scary and very thankful nothing worse happened.  The event is wonderful and the mgmt in all aspects excellent overall, but this was not good and should not happen unless some kind of extreme un-predictable weather event.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lost in Translation said:

The Polish boat Lars mentioned smells of smoke in one hull.  The sailor is OK but shaken and is in surpassingly good spirits.  The mast apparently has some waves at the top but is still OK for now too.  Scary and very thankful nothing worse happened.  The event is wonderful and the mgmt in all aspects excellent overall, but this was not good and should not happen unless some kind of extreme un-predictable weather event.

I have only seen 1 boat that was hit by lightning, a 49er, looked perfect from the outside, but every single internal frame was toast and the boat was as floppy as hell. In that case, the helm spent a few days in hospital. I am pleased nobody was hurt on this occasion. I am not sure I could ever trust that mast again as the laminate has to have been damaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, SimonN said:

It's funny you don't think writing "bullshit" about one of my posts was abusive? Seriously? And it's not as if what i posted was wrong. With the message I posted above from Mel i also got a picture of dark clouds coming. The race office had just told everybody to tie their boats down. Maybe your perspective of things is a bit different from other people's, but when a good friend sends me a message I trust her and when the race office also posts the same thing, I share it. What do you do? Nothing. If you are on site and are posting, why not post something useful?

Woke up this morning to a new message from Mel 

Also went onto Facebook for news and the first thing I find is a message from the worlds f/b page that says "Racing cancelled due to expected thunderstorms". So WnW, I think I will continue to trust my sources over your "bullshit";)

Latest news is that tomorrow, the racing begins at 10.00am with 2 races to complete the qualifying series. then back to shore and the fleets will be split into gold and silver. Then there will be 1 race of the finals.

Forecast, for what it's worth, says there will be 13-18 knots tomorrow, Thursday is looking like 12-15 knotsin the morning dying to light and shite in the afternoon while Friday will 16-20 knots.

Haha it is quite entertaining checking in occasionally with the sporadically informed posts from the other side of the world. Shame you are suffering reeler ended deprivation. The people you mention find it quite entertaining. 

I can only report what I see on site. The photo I post here is from two hours ago. All sailors on site are fine except those who have imbibed perhaps too much at the social reception tonight. There was a report of a lightning strike but nothing near the scale of the 09 Worlds or 14 Worlds powerlines hit.

Racing from 10 tomorrow to complete the qualification series and an unprescribed number of finals races after that depending on circumstances. 

More broadly we are seeing pretty standard A Cat sailing. No jibs or extra big masts. People are really happy to be here and the town us really supportive. $ and Euros convert to plenty of Zlotty. 

image.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Sonofabitch said:

I doubt anyone would buy a DNA if they thought it slower. We buy because we think any package is potentially fastest and look to the results of nationals and worlds to confirm  

DNA wasn't slower last worlds with Gashby and Mischa is not done yet.  

Some hot Auzen sailors are taking delivery of F1 soon

Erwanker?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't answer that Phat Buoy. Plenty of erwankers in the fleet...

simon, what is the physical difference between z10 and what the new Aus exploder packages are using... z15?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WnW and SimonN

For heavens sake you 2. Grow up. Truly pathetic from both of you.

WnW - if you want to keep attacking people for posting what they are being told, why don't you do something useful and post news yourself?

SimonN - Stop biting at everything WnW posts. We all know he is a cantankerous old git.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

WnW and SimonN

For heavens sake you 2. Grow up. Truly pathetic from both of you.

WnW - if you want to keep attacking people for posting what they are being told, why don't you do something useful and post news yourself?

SimonN - Stop biting at everything WnW posts. We all know he is a cantankerous old git.

Seriously? People keep asking me why i don't post on this forum any more. Above is one of the reasons. i don't need this shit. If somebody at the regatta site sends me a message and photo, I take their word for it and because nobody else is updating us, i post it. All WnW needed to do was to say it was sunny where he was, but no, he takes my comments and posts the word "bullshit". 

Fuck it. Why bother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lightning yesterday weren't forecasted beforehand, so that's why we went out. Pretty scary being out there and a pity that a boat got hit. Luckily no one was hurt.

And z22 to z10, heavier and some are white.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And weather forecast looks good for the rest of the week (for now). Might get a little chilly, but that's also part of racing.

Little less wind today than Monday so interesting to see whether upwind flying still pays off.

A lot of talking on the technical stuff here, but main reason for being fast seems to be a lot practice with other fast sailors (as always).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 22/08/2017 at 1:59 PM, juniordave nz said:

From the NZ nationals. We had a good range of boats and I'm modifying my ASG3, so I wanted to get an idea of where all the platforms are at.

Measurements for a good selection of platforms below.

Untitled.jpg

Thanks for this. It's really useful. I think the AD3 numbers must be for an early boat. I believe that since then on their production boats (Australian spec??) they have left the main beam where it is and gone to 500mm for measurement D and now to 400mm. 

All we need now is somebody who has the measurements for a DNA F1. It would be a fascinating comparison with the latest AD3. It would also be interesting to know what the differences are with the AD3 that WetnWild suggested.

I suspect that these are the most crucial measurements. Understanding the interplays between position of the front beam, distance to the main foiils and ndistance between main foils and rudders would be helpful but needs a smarter man than me.:unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

WnW and SimonN

For heavens sake you 2. Grow up. Truly pathetic from both of you.

WnW - if you want to keep attacking people for posting what they are being told, why don't you do something useful and post news yourself?

SimonN - Stop biting at everything WnW posts. We all know he is a cantankerous old git.

Yes miss I'll try and do better. 

I've  been posting what I can between other things. This isn't my job of course and things get a little busy at times. 

Incidentally the reporting from on site including video and photos is magnificent. The organisers are doing a great job all round. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SimonN said:

Seriously? People keep asking me why i don't post on this forum any more. Above is one of the reasons. i don't need this shit. If somebody at the regatta site sends me a message and photo, I take their word for it and because nobody else is updating us, i post it. All WnW needed to do was to say it was sunny where he was, but no, he takes my comments and posts the word "bullshit". 

Fuck it. Why bother.

Sorry you were offended by my light hearted comment Simon. It was meant in fun and to convey that it actually was sunny outside the regatta office and in the middle of a large group of the sailors waiting the possibility of further sailing. I'll try and stick to my more serious Russian demeanour in future. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A Class Sailor said:

Thanks for this. It's really useful. I think the AD3 numbers must be for an early boat. I believe that since then on their production boats (Australian spec??) they have left the main beam where it is and gone to 500mm for measurement D and now to 400mm. 

All we need now is somebody who has the measurements for a DNA F1. It would be a fascinating comparison with the latest AD3. It would also be interesting to know what the differences are with the AD3 that WetnWild suggested.

I suspect that these are the most crucial measurements. Understanding the interplays between position of the front beam, distance to the main foiils and ndistance between main foils and rudders would be helpful but needs a smarter man than me.:unsure:

I was told the beam and CB case numbers for the 4 different current iterations of the AD3 but too much information to retain at the time while doing other stuff on the beach. 

I'll see what I can do with a tape. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lars Schrøder d 13 said:

 

And z22 to z10, heavier and some are white.

 

Good, mine are both heavy and white so no need to update

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, WetnWild said:

 

image.jpeg

Oh oh look out two UFOs above the regatta.  Why didn't you report this WnW

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites