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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Shortforbob

Kim tells trump to go fuck himself

257 posts in this topic

OK let me get this straight

North Korea, like Israel, India, Pakistan and others is NOT a signatory to the NPT.

There do seem to be some courtesy agreements around the testing of missiles.

(humph, it never occurred to me that to range test these things they have to often be flown over our heads)

So..NK has just given advise of testing to be carried out, flying a missile or 4 over Japan and landing 40 K off Guam.

Isn't that what they are supposed to do?

North Korea has defied threats of “fire and fury” from Donald Trump, deriding his warning as a “load of nonsense” and announcing a detailed plan to launch missiles aimed at the waters off the coast of the US Pacific territory of Guam.

 

 A statement attributed to General Kim Rak Gyom, the head of the country’s strategic forces, declared: “Sound dialogue is not possible with such a guy bereft of reason and only absolute force can work on him”. The general outlined a plan to carry out a demonstration launch of four intermediate-range missiles that would fly over Japan and then land in the sea around Guam, “enveloping” the island.

“The Hwasong-12 rockets to be launched by the KPA [Korean People’s Army] will cross the sky above Shimani, Hiroshima and Koichi prefectures of Japan,” the statement said. “They will fly for 3,356.7 km for 1,065 seconds and hit the waters 30 to 40km away from Guam.”

The statement said the plan for this show of force would be ready by the middle of this month and then await orders from the commander-in-chief, Kim Jong-un.

Now if India for example, were to test a missile flying it over Madagascar and landing 40k from the coast of Mozambique, or over Thailand and Vietnam landing 40k off the philipines, would anyone here give a toss? 

Or Israel testing over Cyprus?

Just trying to put this into some sort of perspective.

 

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This would be about THE stupidest thing the norkies could do after saying they were going to nuke Guam.  To do so would essentially be an overt act of war.  

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

This would be about THE stupidest thing the norkies could do after saying they were going to nuke Guam.  To do so would essentially be an overt act of war.  

Um Jeffie, they didn't say they were going to Nuke Guam..just testing missiles.

Yep..with Trump in charge, upping the anti and refusing to be intimidated probably is a stupid thing to do.

I thought you'd be the first one to say.."Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

But If one looked at this whole situation from a Hainish or Mother Thing or intergalactic tribunal POV, what would you see?

This thing has been brewing for years, A military solution is as impossible now as it was back in the 50's.

Diplomacy can sort this but it would mean the USA withdrawing all military from SK. Kimmy being assured that no one is going to attack, China agreeing to keep a benign eye on NK, the USA keep a benign eye on SK. Allow NK to keep what weaponary they have. Allow SK THAD. and give SK the same defence,

Engage in trade with NK in return for human rights improvements.

Fixed :D

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About Guam, reminds me of that old Western movie: "the only safe place in the valley was behind the target"

 

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

Um Jeffie, they didn't say they were going to Nuke Guam..just testing missiles.

Yep..with Trump in charge, upping the anti and refusing to be intimidated probably is a stupid thing to do.

I thought you'd be the first one to say.."Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

But If one looked at this whole situation from a Hainish or Mother Thing or intergalactic tribunal POV, what would you see?

This thing has been brewing for years, A military solution is as impossible now as it was back in the 50's.

Diplomacy can sort this but it would mean the USA withdrawing all military from SK. Kimmy being assured that no one is going to attack, China agreeing to keep a benign eye on NK, the USA keep a benign eye on SK. Allow NK to keep what weaponary they have. Allow SK THAD. and give SK the same defence,

Engage in trade with NK in return for human rights improvements.

Fixed :D

You can't be this naive?   If the US pulled out of SK NK would invade in a heartbeat.  If NK launches missles over Japan it would be an act of war AGAINST Japan.   If they land around Guam that to would be an act of War. AGAINST the US.  A military option may not be acceptable,  but it is possible.  

I get the fact the your TDS is blinding you to reality, but the countries in the region including China know who the problem leader is and it's not Trump. 

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-08-05/un-imposes-tough-new-sanctions-on-north-korea?src=usn_li

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Meli,

Imagine I am your insane neighbor and I am drunk and on meth. I like to sit on my front porch and shoot my 12 gauge at you. So far I have loaded it with blanks, but I have been bragging in the bar about how I cast some slugs that will fit my gun. One day I won't be shooting blanks and if you wait for me to pull the trigger to find out........ :o

Take another view - If the USA launched "test' missiles OVER Russia to land in the Black Sea just outside the 12 mile limit off the beach, no sane Russian leader would wait to see if they were really test shots, the nukes would be headed our way before they were halfway there and vice versa.

Add yet another view - NK stilll exists because previous presidents took a slow and steady approach to dealing with them. They are now poking a well armed impulsive 3 year old in desperately in need of a distraction with a sharp stick over and over.

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The whole idea of having nukes, is to gain the ability to tell the POTUS to go fuck himself.

Seems to be working so far.  I'm thinking that NK has seen what happened to Iraq when they did not have them.

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Oh, I forgot to ask ... how far is Guam the USA?

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9 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Meli,

Imagine I am your insane neighbor and I am drunk and on meth. I like to sit on my front porch and shoot my 12 gauge at you. So far I have loaded it with blanks, but I have been bragging in the bar about how I cast some slugs that will fit my gun. One day I won't be shooting blanks and if you wait for me to pull the trigger to find out........ :o

Take another view - If the USA launched "test' missiles OVER Russia to land in the Black Sea just outside the 12 mile limit off the beach, no sane Russian leader would wait to see if they were really test shots, the nukes would be headed our way before they were halfway there and vice versa.

Add yet another view - NK stilll exists because previous presidents took a slow and steady approach to dealing with them. They are now poking a well armed impulsive 3 year old in desperate need of a distraction with a sharp stick over and over.

Think Hainish..what you've said can apply equally to the USA.

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

Think Hainish..what you've said can apply equally to the USA.

No shit - that is what makes this so dangerous. Little Kimmy may think he is dealing with a new Bush who ignored him or a new Obama that would try and round up a new sanction or two. Little Kimmy is about to learn not to fuck with crazy people.

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14 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

No shit - that is what makes this so dangerous. Little Kimmy may think he is dealing with a new Bush who ignored him or a new Obama that would try and round up a new sanction or two. Little Kimmy is about to learn not to fuck with crazy people.

Yes,

But when I say think Hainish..I'm meaning something broader than the situation with NK.

All countries have a right to exist..we may not like the way some countries chose..(or in some countries the people do not chose) how that country is governed.but political or military interference from outside rarely has good outcomes.

I'll cite Cuba..strangled by outside political and economic interference from achieving economic potential.

Numerous south american countries ditto.

Ireland..north and south.

Iraq.

North K could possibly have found it's way, like Vietnam, without the constant threats and fear nurturing it's paranoia .

 

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It's, ah, on. There is no way trump or kim is going to back down. Rex ain't got enough hours in the day to sort this shit out.

 

Let's hope you yanks don't have any overs.

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Kim knows he can bait trump, as others have said elsewhere his time is ticking down. Kim may feel that by getting trump to start first, the US will be in the history bad books, of what is left/ rebuilt, much in the same way onlookers chastise a parent hitting a kid in the supermarket.

After all everyone will be saying America stuffed up, not Republicans or trump. When diplomacy goes out the window and the ebald eagle elect swoops lawfully, in it`s own bird brain.

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And people make the mistake that "the Kims" or Trump or any senior politician actually care about their own people.

Economic sanctions hurt who? the generals and their 1% or the peasant farmer or lowly worker?

It's always the same..the big boys play with their toys and brinkmanship games while the lower 50% die of starvation or war.

You lot play armchair generals without a moments thought to the ordinary cit.

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It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

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7 minutes ago, bgytr said:

It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

You mean the US will actually attack a country that can strike back?  Not sure about that, not since Vietnam.

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1 minute ago, random said:

You mean the US will actually attack a country that can strike back?  Not sure about that, not since Vietnam.

 

10 minutes ago, bgytr said:

It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

Is that what I said?  

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9 minutes ago, bgytr said:

It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

This is my fear. Kimmy thinks he'll get a grain shipment or a load of bunker fuel oil out of all of this. He may well get a shipment, but it might arrive by air and he likely will want to send it back once he sees what it is. Kind of like how Saddam and Clinton had a pretend war for 8 years and he thought he could do 8 more with Bush :o

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Putin will be controlling all this.

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4 minutes ago, random said:

Putin will be controlling all this.

This is where Putin & Tillerson get NK to "mind" the South china Sea thing, as a way forwards :)

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Reverse speak.  Those who are not making a noise are making the calls.  The public are fed the scraps.

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5 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

OK let me get this straight

North Korea, like Israel, India, Pakistan and others is NOT a signatory to the NPT.

1

MUS-FAFP1114_black_850.jpg?v=15023711939

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Kim is, as usual engaged in hyperbole and wishful thinking.  At present the best they can do is aim their missiles toward Guam and hope they get somewhere near it.  The biggest danger is one will accidentally land on Guam, even though it is unlikely the missiles will be armed.  The US is playing games as well, the threat is real but Kim is a ways yet from being able to deliver a nuclear payload on target with one of his missiles.  All of this talk of a massive intelligence failure and the huge present danger is being hyped by the US for its own purposes.  Having Trump at the helm, at this time is probably the worst possible situation and both sides could blunder into a war out of sheer stupidity.  THAT is the real danger at present.  Whatever happens, if it comes to war, Kim will by far be the biggest loser.

If Putin's aim was to create instability in the US, it is working perfectly.

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1 hour ago, bgytr said:

It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

Agreed. The problem is that the Norks can really fuck up a lot of shit in the act getting blown up.

It would be better to avoid a war, in the opinion of almost all rational human beings.

-DSK

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 I feel for South Korea. They have crazy people in other countries deciding if they live or die :o

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Leaders of nuclear powers should not be narcissistic ignorant children. 

The GOP has saddled America with dangerously incompetent leadership which has a statistically relevant chance of fucking up on a global scale. Not just in NK, but as regards Iran, India/China, the climate and our economy. 

We will evermore have reduced moral stature to scold other nuclear powers for threatening language and destabilizing diplomatic posturing.

We have weakened alliances and emboldened our enemies. Our leaders do not have a coherent foreign policy; experts both foreign and domestic have called this administration's approach haphazard,  uncertain, and frequently  contradictory. 

 Trump is a loose cannon, with command of the largest nuclear arsenal and most powerful conventional forces in the world. He is feeling embattled at home, ridiculed overseas and is easily enraged by foreign intransigence. His emotional state determines TWEETs, policy and military responses. This may well become relevant, and may cause the US to be regarded as a destabilizing force in the world. 

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16 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Agreed. The problem is that the Norks can really fuck up a lot of shit in the act getting blown up.

It would be better to avoid a war, in the opinion of almost all rational human beings.

-DSK

OK, lets focus on Kim's goals for a minute. I think that we get off to a bad start if we just say he is crazy or irrational. He is no more crazy or irrational than Trump, admittedly a low bar. He does 'issues' but these do not mean that he lacks strategic and tactical goals. Strategically he wants NK to survive with him in charge for decades to come. He looks at his father and especially his grandfather and sees that they are revered as almost god-like. He want to complete the unholy trinity. He would not mind reunification but with him in charge, but he is smart enough to realize that that is not a realistic option any time soon. Tactically he wants his nuclear program to be accepted, grudgingly but accepted, as is the case in India, Pakistan, and Israel. He also wants the sanctions reduced so that he and his necessary inner circle of sycophants (and potential rivals) can live a happy life with a new Mercedes and iPhone. He cares little for the average NKorean other than as a worshipper. How does he achieve this? By getting to the negotiating table with the strongest cards he can muster. All of this is happening now.  

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2 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Leaders of nuclear powers should not be narcissistic ignorant children. 

The GOP has saddled America with dangerously incompetent leadership which has a statistically relevant chance of fucking up on a global scale. Not just in NK, but as regards Iran, India/China, the climate and our economy. 

We will evermore have reduced moral stature to scold other nuclear powers for threatening language and destabilizing diplomatic posturing.

We have weakened alliances and emboldened our enemies. Our leaders do not have a coherent foreign policy; experts both foreign and domestic have called this administration's approach haphazard,  uncertain, and frequently  contradictory. 

 Trump is a loose cannon, with command of the largest nuclear arsenal and most powerful conventional forces in the world. He is feeling embattled at home, ridiculed overseas and is easily enraged by foreign intransigence. His emotional state determines TWEETs, policy and military responses. This may well become relevant, and may cause the US to be regarded as a destabilizing force in the world. 

I think we are beyond the 'may cause' stage already. A remarkable, and scary, recent poll shows that Canadians have more respect for the government of China than the government of the United States - and China certainly can be destabilizing.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/09/canadians-have-worse-impression-of-u-s-government-than-china-a_a_23072345/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepagehttp://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/08/09/canadians-have-worse-impression-of-u-s-government-than-china-a_a_23072345/?utm_hp_ref=ca-homepage

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Meli, I thought EVEN YOU cannot be this dumb.  I see I've been proven wrong......

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The reaction to Trumps Comments, from the left remind me so much of those same reactions when Reagan was going head to head with Russia.  Personally I'm tired of the hand wringing.  It was a simple message "Fuck with us and we will destroy you."  Using Kent's analogy of the crazy neighbor with the shotgun, What is wrong with reminding that Neighbor that you have a fleet of B1 Bombers that will level his house if he is stupid enough to fire his shotgun ( regardless if it has blanks) at your house.

Here is the governor of Guam  

 

Quote

 

Guam’s Republican governor, Eddie Calvo, on Thursday praised President Trump’s “fire and fury” warning to North Korea, saying he wants a president who speaks sternly to America’s enemies.

North Korea issued a statement Wednesday saying it would develop a plan by mid-August to launch four missiles near the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam. The threat came one day after Mr. Trump warned North Korea that it would be met with “fire and fury” unlike the world had ever seen.

Appearing on Fox News’ “Tucker Carlson Tonight,” Mr. Calvo said he appreciates the tough rhetoric by Mr. Trump, but warned against threatening a nuclear war.

“As far as I’m concerned, as an American citizen, I want a president that says that if any nation such as North Korea attack Guam, attack Honolulu, attack the west coast, they will be met with hell and fury,” the governor said.


 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/10/eddie-calvo-guam-governor-praises-trumps-fire-and-/

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I dont know why the west isn't simply shooting down Kim's so called test missiles, as soon as they are air born.... problem solved.

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11 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Meli, I thought EVEN YOU cannot be this dumb.  I see I've been proven wrong......

It's the same Progressive Mindset of the 80's  "Better Red than Dead"

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1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

Leaders of nuclear powers should not be narcissistic ignorant children. 

The GOP has saddled America with dangerously incompetent leadership which has a statistically relevant chance of fucking up on a global scale. Not just in NK, but as regards Iran, India/China, the climate and our economy. 

We will evermore have reduced moral stature to scold other nuclear powers for threatening language and destabilizing diplomatic posturing.

We have weakened alliances and emboldened our enemies. Our leaders do not have a coherent foreign policy; experts both foreign and domestic have called this administration's approach haphazard,  uncertain, and frequently  contradictory. 

 Trump is a loose cannon, with command of the largest nuclear arsenal and most powerful conventional forces in the world. He is feeling embattled at home, ridiculed overseas and is easily enraged by foreign intransigence. His emotional state determines TWEETs, policy and military responses. This may well become relevant, and may cause the US to be regarded as a destabilizing force in the world. 

I'd tend to agree, but, would suggest that many are.  Trump's behavior exemplifies everything that a world leader should avoid.  Looking for the good - I hope that his petulance gets Congress off its collective ass to start exercising the limits that the separation of powers are supposed to provide. 

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This would be fun if they weren't both so crazy.  A young fat dictator fighting with an old fat dictator. 

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54 minutes ago, Keith said:

I dont know why the west isn't simply shooting down Kim's so called test missiles, as soon as they are air born.... problem solved.

Lol as mentioned elswhere it is not eazy. Regan & or GWB star wars thing was all about finding and negating them, when vunerable, making an arc. Ever see the mythbusters ep about bullets shooting other bullets? :) 

Missile & ICBM are different animals.

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4 hours ago, bgytr said:

It's just more blackmail from dprk.  That's how they've lived for decades.  Rattle a sabre until the rich countries buy them off with money or products they want.  Trump is a different disposition though and might not go with the same ol shit.

It's not really Trump that has made the change, but China. The USA isn't economically meaningful to NK.

NK is now reforming fast because China stopped buying blind shiploads from them, and now the NKers are involved in small trade, out of necessity.

And Meli, NK is no longer signatory to the NPT, but unlike Israel, Pakistan and India, they left the treaty in noncompliance, their sanctions thus still apply.

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4 hours ago, random said:

Putin will be controlling all this.

There's a theory going around on twitter, among the "Trump is Putin's patsy" conspiracy theory crowd... that Putin gave Kim that small nuke, specifically so Trump could raise a stink about it, and make himself look good.  There's another theory that Kim's not an unwitting patsy, but is in on it, too, and the whole thing is Kabuki theory aimed at their respective followers.

Of course... the same folks claim that Putin was behind the BLM movement / Ferguson protests / Boston Marathon bombing / etc.

Fill yer boots.

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1 hour ago, TMSAIL said:

The reaction to Trumps Comments, from the left remind me so much of those same reactions when Reagan was going head to head with Russia.  Personally I'm tired of the hand wringing.  It was a simple message "Fuck with us and we will destroy you."  Using Kent's analogy of the crazy neighbor with the shotgun, What is wrong with reminding that Neighbor that you have a fleet of B1 Bombers that will level his house if he is stupid enough to fire his shotgun ( regardless if it has blanks) at your house.

Here is the governor of Guam  

 

 

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/aug/10/eddie-calvo-guam-governor-praises-trumps-fire-and-/

If Trump said that, I'd agree. Unfortunately he said if you say nasty things, we will bring fire and fury...

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5 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If Trump said that, I'd agree. Unfortunately he said if you say nasty things, we will bring fire and fury...

President Donald Trump issued an extraordinary ultimatum to North Korea on Tuesday warning Pyongyang not to make any more threats against the United States or they will "face fire and fury like the world has never seen," during a photo op at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before," he said.
 

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Just now, TMSAIL said:

President Donald Trump issued an extraordinary ultimatum to North Korea on Tuesday warning Pyongyang not to make any more threats against the United States or they will "face fire and fury like the world has never seen," during a photo op at the Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey.

"North Korea best not make any more threats to the United States. They will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen... he has been very threatening beyond a normal state. They will be met with fire, fury and frankly power the likes of which this world has never seen before," he said.

exactly, he threatened the full power of the US Military if Lil Fat Boy throws a tantrum.  That's pretty stupid on Trump's part.

Now - if he had said "do something stupid, kill an american or an ally and you won't live to see the morning" that would be a bit more reasoned.

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8 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

exactly, he threatened the full power of the US Military if Lil Fat Boy throws a tantrum.  That's pretty stupid on Trump's part.

Now - if he had said "do something stupid, kill an american or an ally and you won't live to see the morning" that would be a bit more reasoned.

You see it that way  I see it as Fuck with Us and i will unleash Hell on you.  Semantics   Question if Kim launches 4 missiles on a trajectory to straddle Guam would that be considered a reason to unleash " Fire and Fury" or should we wait to see if they detonate before responding?

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51 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

You see it that way  I see it as Fuck with Us and i will unleash Hell on you.  Semantics   Question if Kim launches 4 missiles on a trajectory to straddle Guam would that be considered a reason to unleash " Fire and Fury" or should we wait to see if they detonate before responding?

I see it the way it was written. You see it the way you wish it was written. 

I know, I'm taking him literally, you're taking him seriously.


Well, Trump's literally and seriously a fucktard.  He can't even get a threat right.

 

As to Kim launching missiles - he's launched, what, 5+ missiles recently?  How are these any different if they land in international waters?  I could see us trying to shoot them down if we "think" they are on a trajectory to hit US or Ally territory, so we could try to shoot them down, but that would likely show how poor the THAAD really are. No, I don't think we have to be on a hair trigger and if missiles fly, we launch fire and fury.

 

Besides, Russian, French, Chinese and Indian + other missiles/satellites fly over the US every day. We don't attack THOSE countries for every missile launch.

 

I'm including to see Lil Kim for what he is, a clone of Trump. Just a blowhard.  Rattling a sabre. Woohoo. I'm scared.

 

Le

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I see it the way it was written. You see it the way you wish it was written. 

I know, I'm taking him literally, you're taking him seriously.


Well, Trump's literally and seriously a fucktard.  He can't even get a threat right.

 

As to Kim launching missiles - he's launched, what, 5+ missiles recently?  How are these any different if they land in international waters?  I could see us trying to shoot them down if we "think" they are on a trajectory to hit US or Ally territory, so we could try to shoot them down, but that would likely show how poor the THAAD really are. No, I don't think we have to be on a hair trigger and if missiles fly, we launch fire and fury.

 

Besides, Russian, French, Chinese and Indian + other missiles/satellites fly over the US every day. We don't attack THOSE countries for every missile launch.

 

I'm including to see Lil Kim for what he is, a clone of Trump. Just a blowhard.  Rattling a sabre. Woohoo. I'm scared.

 

Le

Satellites vs ballistic Missiles now that one takes the cake.  In the history of ballistic Missile tests no nation has launched missiles with a trajectory to straddle the sovereign territory of another nation.  Why? Because that is clearly a Hostile act. 

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1 minute ago, TMSAIL said:

Satellites vs ballistic Missiles now that one takes the cake.  In the history of ballistic Missile tests no nation has launched missiles with a trajectory to straddle the sovereign territory of another nation.  Why? Because that is clearly a Hostile act. 

you do realize that the US has used repurposed military missiles to carry satellites, right? An ICBM is just a label away from a satellite launch device.

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4 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

you do realize that the US has used repurposed military missiles to carry satellites, right? An ICBM is just a label away from a satellite launch device.

Satellite launch rockets do not have the same trajectory as an ICBM.    You claimed satellites Orbiting over a country are the same as ICBM's aimed at a country - Complete BS

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Satellite launch rockets do not have the same trajectory as an ICBM.    You claimed satellites Orbiting over a country are the same as ICBM's aimed at a country - Complete BS

what if satellites were just waiting for an ICBM to come in range, then deploy the Q 36 Immodium Space Modulator ray.

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2 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Satellite launch rockets do not have the same trajectory as an ICBM.    You claimed satellites Orbiting over a country are the same as ICBM's aimed at a country - Complete BS

YOU said that "in the history of ballistic Missile tests no nation has launched missiles with a trajectory to straddle the sovereign territory of another nation"

Care to walk that one back - since there really is no difference between the launch vehicles?

Now - if Japan says to us, you're our shield, take those missiles off the launch pad, I'd say we do what they ask as part of our mutual defense pact. The Norks aren't threatening to launch OVER Guam, so it wouldn't be OVER our territory.

The Sorks see these missiles launch over them all the time, so I don't think they'll ask us to take them out.

 

So - I would likely engage the THAAD defense system in defense of Japan. that's a reasonable escalation.  Assuming that THAAD works.

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For the math and Keplerian challenged:

There is a big and obvious difference a launch to orbit and aiming at another country. The USA and USSR long ago developed protocols to make sure we know which is which.

North Korea is promising to aim 40 klicks, or 24 miles, away from US bases. Any Soviet rocket back in the day aimed 24 miles from our bases would have been an act of war and I doubt we would have waited for it to land before launching our own.

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4 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

For the math and Keplerian challenged:

There is a big and obvious difference a launch to orbit and aiming at another country. The USA and USSR long ago developed protocols to make sure we know which is which.

North Korea is promising to aim 40 klicks, or 24 miles, away from US bases. Any Soviet rocket back in the day aimed 24 miles from our bases would have been an act of war and I doubt we would have waited for it to land before launching our own.

 

33 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

YOU said that "in the history of ballistic Missile tests no nation has launched missiles with a trajectory to straddle the sovereign territory of another nation"

Care to walk that one back - since there really is no difference between the launch vehicles?

Now - if Japan says to us, you're our shield, take those missiles off the launch pad, I'd say we do what they ask as part of our mutual defense pact. The Norks aren't threatening to launch OVER Guam, so it wouldn't be OVER our territory.

The Sorks see these missiles launch over them all the time, so I don't think they'll ask us to take them out.

 

So - I would likely engage the THAAD defense system in defense of Japan. that's a reasonable escalation.  Assuming that THAAD works.

I think Kent explained it pretty well.  Look up trajectory and then consider walking back your BS.  

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Also note the Norks Ebay Special $9.95 Rocket GPS and MP3 player might just be 24 miles off. Say the rocket lands on the mess hall and kills 50 people. Then what?

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40 minutes ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

what if satellites were just waiting for an ICBM to come in range, then deploy the Q 36 Immodium Space Modulator ray.

Uhhhhhhhh Yeaaaaaaaaa that's what I was thinking Spock.

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2 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

 

I think Kent explained it pretty well.  Look up trajectory and then consider walking back your BS.  

Why?


You asked what I'd do. I told you. Ask Japan if they want THAAD engaged if something is flying over their territory.  Engage it if that happens.

Slam bam thank you 'mam if their aim is off and they hit US waters.

 

You?

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

Also note the Norks Ebay Special $9.95 Rocket GPS and MP3 player might just be 24 miles off. Say the rocket lands on the mess hall and kills 50 people. Then what?

slam bam thank you 'mam.  Sorry South, Norks crossed a line.

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Why?


You asked what I'd do. I told you. Ask Japan if they want THAAD engaged if something is flying over their territory.  Engage it if that happens.

Slam bam thank you 'mam if their aim is off and they hit US waters.

 

You?

Because you Fucking claimed a satellite launch was the same as a ballistic missile launch simply because they both use rockets.  

If they launch multiple missiles on a ICBM trajectory towards Guam, it will start the second Korean war.  That will be solely on Lil Kim. I doubt he would live out the next 24 hours after such a launch.

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Thread creep - FYI most GPSs will shut down if they detect they are being used in a rocket. Amateur rocket and high altitude balloon builders have to hunt around for ones that don't.

They do something like if I am going faster than X and/or higher than Y, I am in an ICBM and will shut down now.

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2 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Thread creep - FYI most GPSs will shut down if they detect they are being used in a rocket. Amateur rocket and high altitude balloon builders have to hunt around for ones that don't.

They do something like if I am going faster than X and/or higher than Y, I am in an ICBM and will shut down now.

Cool  I guess there were some strings when the military opened up GPS to civilians 

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33 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Because you Fucking claimed a satellite launch was the same as a ballistic missile launch simply because they both use rockets.  

If they launch multiple missiles on a ICBM trajectory towards Guam, it will start the second Korean war.  That will be solely on Lil Kim. I doubt he would live out the next 24 hours after such a launch.

well, i'm glad you don't have the nuke football, but I bet your messiah thinks similarly.

 

too bad for the couple hundred thousand south korean civilians who will die, and the shock to the world economy that will result.

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We have many brilliant minds in our government and can come up with some sort of solution to the threat to Guam. According to this guy we should be able to just tow Guam out of range of any NK attack! I just how the Airforce spreads those bew B1 bombers that are arriving from Anderson Air base so Guam doesn't tip over and sink first...

 

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12 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

well, i'm glad you don't have the nuke football, but I bet your messiah thinks similarly.

 

too bad for the couple hundred thousand south korean civilians who will die, and the shock to the world economy that will result.

To bad for the 160,000 or so Americans on Guam  Or the millions of Americans on the West coast if you gamble on Lil Kims good graces not to have a Nuke capable ICBM

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Just now, TMSAIL said:

To bad for the 160,000 or so Americans on Guam  Or the millions of Americans on the West coast if you gamble on Lil Kims good graces not to have a Nuke capable ICBM

imagine if I said or implied that.

Imagine!

 

Here I thought we were talking about 4 unarmed (we don't know if they are armed) missiles with a pre-announced flight plan.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

imagine if I said or implied that.

Imagine!

 

Here I thought we were talking about 4 unarmed (we don't know if they are armed) missiles with a pre-announced flight plan.

Why are you OK with this Flash? 

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Just now, Raz'r said:

imagine if I said or implied that.

Imagine!

 

Here I thought we were talking about 4 unarmed (we don't know if they are armed) missiles with a pre-announced flight plan.

That is exactly what you said.  You would be willing to look the other way on the hope that they are not armed.  Just because it is announced doesn't eliminate the threat.  

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Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Why are you OK with this Flash? 

Did I write that I was ok with it? What's wrong with defending our allies if requested, and defending ourselves if hit?

I don't see the upside to starting a major conflagration over something that might not happen at all.

Kim and his family have been threatening the destruction of the US since the 50s.  

 

Reality is the little tyrant has nukes. Unless we want a million dead south koreans, and possibly a war with China, we'll figure out a way to live another day, and another, and another.

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2 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

That is exactly what you said.  You would be willing to look the other way on the hope that they are not armed.  Just because it is announced doesn't eliminate the threat.  

You may want to get checked. I've read that reading comprehension is one of the first things to go when you've had an overdose of RWNM.

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Just now, Raz'r said:

You may want to get checked. I've read that reading comprehension is one of the first things to go when you've had an overdose of RWNM.

Coming from someone who maintained an ICBM Launch is the same as a satellite Launch because they both use rockets  and satellites flying in ORBIT should be treated the same as incoming Missiles i wouldn't talk about comprehension.

To summarize you would be OK with missiles landing around Guam, but would take action if one actually hit the island?    

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3 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Coming from someone who maintained an ICBM Launch is the same as a satellite Launch because they both use rockets  and satellites flying in ORBIT should be treated the same as incoming Missiles i wouldn't talk about comprehension.

To summarize you would be OK with missiles landing around Guam, but would take action if one actually hit the island?    

why do you have to summarize? I answered in post #51. What would YOU do?

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9 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Did I write that I was ok with it? What's wrong with defending our allies if requested, and defending ourselves if hit?

I don't see the upside to starting a major conflagration over something that might not happen at all.

Kim and his family have been threatening the destruction of the US since the 50s.  

When you suggested that what Kim had threatened was "the same as a satellite launch" - it certainly seemed as though you were trying to minimize the perceived severity of such action.  If you weren't, then I honestly don't know what point you were trying to make. 

Reality is the little tyrant has nukes. Unless we want a million dead south koreans, and possibly a war with China, we'll figure out a way to live another day, and another, and another.

On this - we agree. 

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I think Trump is crazier than 20 weasels in a bag and MUCH dumber than a box of rocks. I am no fan of anything team R does except when they piss Trump off. That said, NFW should ANY president of any party or any IQ treat ICMBs launched at American territory as anything but an act of war, no matter how many times they tell you they are not armed and that they won't land RIGHT on your head, just nearby.

Raz'r, you cool with me shooting at your head? I promise to use blanks and aim at a spot 1/4" from your left ear.

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1 minute ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I think Trump is crazier than 20 weasels in a bag and MUCH dumber than a box of rocks. I am no fan of anything team R does except when they piss Trump off. That said, NFW should ANY president of any party or any IQ treat ICMBs launched at American territory as anything but an act of war, no matter how many times they tell you they are not armed and that they won't land RIGHT on your head, just nearby.

ok, say it's an act of war. What's the response?

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Just now, Raz'r said:

ok, say it's an act of war. What's the response?

Step A is to make sure Trump doesn't get confused and nuke North Carolina or North Dakota. Step B, not sure..........no good choices.

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

Step A is to make sure Trump doesn't get confused and nuke North Carolina or North Dakota. Step B, not sure..........no good choices.

No, he'd nuke a Blue state!

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Here is an opinion from a poster at the Atlantic. It offers yet another view of what is happening and while I would not normally post an opinion from a magazine article, it is prescient. The author is Taran Wanderer:

"Everything about this escalation was unnecessary and could have been avoided. The primary purpose of the TPP was to give America a massive lever to use on China when they needed it. Trump stupidly pulled out of the TPP, he showed China early on that he was a clown not worth taking seriously, and he's so completely helpless and weak inside the beltway that all the bad actors in the Eastern Hemisphere smell blood in the water. 

This escalation isn't about North Korea. It's about China. Kim JU has seen that China is effectively nudging and winking him along, so he's taking it farther and farther, and the reason China is nudging and winking in the background is that NK is another tool they can use to become the dominant geopolitical force on earth. 

Make no mistake, China will shut down the last dregs of their trade with NK before this all escalates into war, and when they do, this particular escalation will cease. But China will allow things to continue to heat up to the point that the whole world is terrified. China gets to play the hero when the time comes. They want to make a show that they are the only ones who can stop this sh*tshow in the face of American impotence. Everything that's happening in that region right now is about China becoming the dominant player in the world as America bumbles and stumbles under the most incompetent leadership in its history."

 

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Spot on perspicacity!!

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1 hour ago, badlatitude said:

Here is an opinion from a poster at the Atlantic. It offers yet another view of what is happening and while I would not normally post an opinion from a magazine article, it is prescient. The author is Taran Wanderer:

"Everything about this escalation was unnecessary and could have been avoided. The primary purpose of the TPP was to give America a massive lever to use on China when they needed it. Trump stupidly pulled out of the TPP, he showed China early on that he was a clown not worth taking seriously, and he's so completely helpless and weak inside the beltway that all the bad actors in the Eastern Hemisphere smell blood in the water. 

This escalation isn't about North Korea. It's about China. Kim JU has seen that China is effectively nudging and winking him along, so he's taking it farther and farther, and the reason China is nudging and winking in the background is that NK is another tool they can use to become the dominant geopolitical force on earth. 

Make no mistake, China will shut down the last dregs of their trade with NK before this all escalates into war, and when they do, this particular escalation will cease. But China will allow things to continue to heat up to the point that the whole world is terrified. China gets to play the hero when the time comes. They want to make a show that they are the only ones who can stop this sh*tshow in the face of American impotence. Everything that's happening in that region right now is about China becoming the dominant player in the world as America bumbles and stumbles under the most incompetent leadership in its history."

 

"Taran Wanderer"? Is he going to be "King Taran" in next month's episode?

While I don't disagree with his thought process, I have a hard time taking anyone who uses a name from "The Narnia Chronicles" seriously.

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Not bad BL, I like it.  Those damn inscrutable Chinese. They play the long game over there.

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1 hour ago, SV Airlie said:

No, he'd nuke a Blue state!

What's wrong with that?

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3 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

Not bad BL, I like it.  Those damn inscrutable Chinese. They play the long game over there.

They make use of those ancient board games on the art of warfare. Those North Viet Kong used or played them to great advantage well as well. They can be inscrutable as well. 

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3 hours ago, kmacdonald said:
3 hours ago, Legion of Modernrate Jack said:

what if satellites were just waiting for an ICBM to come in range, then deploy the Q 36 Immodium Space Modulator ray.

Uhhhhhhhh Yeaaaaaaaaa that's what I was thinking Spock.

More Marvin than Spock...

1441471c5d214be2a272cd88a3d4206a--marvin

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So - TMSail wants to know what others would do if Lil Kim lobs some aluminum at Guam, and will throw shit if that response isn't "strong" enough.

 

But won't say what HE would do. Typical.

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2 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

What's wrong with that?

From your perspective nothing. Gerrymandering and not allowing democrats to vote isn't enough for you. Bomb a blue state and wipe out thousands of them. The only way, or one of the major ways you win elections is by throwing any principles, if you had any to begin with, into the wind. 

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Just now, Raz'r said:

So - TMSail wants to know what others would do if Lil Kim lobs some aluminum at Guam, and will throw shit if that response isn't "strong" enough.

 

But won't say what HE would do. Typical.

Your dipping into Steam Flyer territory  POST 58

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Your dipping into Steam Flyer territory  POST 58

POST 58 does not say what YOU would do. Just what you think would happen.

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I think it's safe to say that if Kim starts wizzing rockets past our head, test or no test, someone's going to get hurt.

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I am far more concerned about the other shit the politicians are doing than I am concerned about the two blowhards' idiotic empty threats. 

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1 minute ago, kmacdonald said:

I think it's safe to say that if Kim starts wizzing rockets past our head, test or no test, someone's going to get hurt.

You have fantastic insight in the obvious! We're talking about a bully, he doesn't care who is killed as long as it's not Americans and better yet, his supporters. He can't afford to lose too many more!

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5 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

I think it's safe to say that if Kim starts wizzing rockets past our head, test or no test, someone's going to get hurt.

Well he's been wizzing them past other peoples heads for a while..Is your head special?

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well he's been wizzing them past other peoples heads for a while..Is your head special?

Just big! Easy target!

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well he's been wizzing them past other peoples heads for a while..Is your head special?

As a matter of fact, YES.  American lives matter, others are expendable.

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13 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

You have fantastic insight in the obvious! We're talking about a bully, he doesn't care who is killed as long as it's not Americans and better yet, his supporters. He can't afford to lose too many more!

Didn't I tell you to quit licking your dick in public?

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Over the last decade or two, the usa has kind of used up most of it's cred when in comes to military intelligence.

This latest started with this

North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment.

Then Trumpy uses it to distract from his mess.

The expression "wouldn't it be lovely if someone held a war and nobody came" may just become reality.

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Spanish American war, 

 Hearst responded "Please remain. You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war.

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8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Over the last decade or two, the usa has kind of used up most of it's cred when in comes to military intelligence.

This latest started with this

North Korea has successfully produced a miniaturized nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles, crossing a key threshold on the path to becoming a full-fledged nuclear power, U.S. intelligence officials have concluded in a confidential assessment.

Then Trumpy uses it to distract from his mess.

The expression "wouldn't it be lovely if someone held a war and nobody came" may just become reality.

Wag the Dog....

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7 hours ago, Keith said:

I dont know why the west isn't simply shooting down Kim's so called test missiles, as soon as they are air born.... problem solved.

1 minute 42 seconds from launch to landing(Impact)..... You think you can shoot a sparrow out of the sky, not knowing exactly where it's coming from, or where exactly it's going, in that time? How about 4 of them? Good luck with that.

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12 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

Didn't I tell you to quit licking your dick in public?

At least I have one. Apparently, your wife has the only one in your family.

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7 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

1 minute 42 seconds from launch to landing(Impact)..... You think you can shoot a sparrow out of the sky, not knowing exactly where it's coming from, or where exactly it's going, in that time? How about 4 of them? Good luck with that.

The US Pacific Command said it tracked the missile for 37 minutes and described it as a "land-based, intermediate range ballistic missile." Japan reported that its flight time was 40 minutes.

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8 minutes ago, Mrleft8 said:

1 minute 42 seconds from launch to landing(Impact)..... You think you can shoot a sparrow out of the sky, not knowing exactly where it's coming from, or where exactly it's going, in that time? How about 4 of them? Good luck with that.

you should tell the generals to stop spending money on this, then

http://www.businessinsider.com/thaad-missile-defense-system-2016

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