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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Shortforbob

Kim tells trump to go fuck himself

257 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

I think a surgical strategic strike into the heart of NK would be appropriate if (and big IF) NK fires a missile at Guam.  No nukes.  We need to save those for real fire and fury like the world has never seen before.

Wow almost on the same page.   The only reason I would go full weight (short of Nukes) is to try and prevent the wholesale slauter of SK civilians. 

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8 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The missiles promised to be aimed at Guam aren't ICBMs. They're intermediate range missiles, right? As far as I know, NK doesn't yet have any ICBMs yet.

I understood Lefty, but I don't feel compelled to shitfight with him because I share his ideology. I understand that when we disagree with people in general, it makes the shitfights easier.

As far as I can tell, we all think that Kim Jong-Un is a screeching putzmeister.

Correct on the intermediate missiles.  They still follow a ballistic missile flight profile.   I do believe he just tested a Missile with an ICBM range.  Still artillery is the threat to SK Not missiles 

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10 Moabs directed to every place the fat bastard has ever laid his head

10 more to every military command center

Sink every ship

Blow every plane

Done in an hour

The end

Should have happened 40 years ago 

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Image result for Turd Sandwich pics

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11 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Wow almost on the same page.   The only reason I would go full weight (short of Nukes) is to try and prevent the wholesale slauter of SK civilians. 

So kill every single NK, man woman and child?

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2 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

10 Moabs directed to every place the fat bastard has ever laid his head

10 more to every military command center

Sink every ship

Blow every plane

Done in an hour

The end

Should have happened 40 years ago 

And start a GoFundMe account to rebuild Seoul.

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2 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

So kill every single NK, man woman and child?

Naw - even you know that we engage in military conflicts in a manner designed to minimize harm to innocents.  The current generations of NK have a tough path forward no matter what, many are starving, largely insulated from access to external awareness, and via "juche", kinda brainwashed so that they'd treat any external attempts to help them as a threat.  Whoever breaks this, owns it for 3 generations. 

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4 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

Image result for Turd Sandwich pics

It only took you 14,341 posts to catch on. Sharp as a tack you are.

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4 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

It only took you 14,341 posts to catch on. Sharp as a tack you are.

Tacks are sharp You being sharp as a hammer would be appropriate. Hammers aren't very sharp.Guess you've never stepped on a tack barefoot!

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30 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Correct on the intermediate missiles.  They still follow a ballistic missile flight profile.   I do believe he just tested a Missile with an ICBM range.  Still artillery is the threat to SK Not missiles 

Yes, regular old shells and terrified North Koreans with guns. The South supposedly has a lot of artillery radar, and presumably a good bit of counterfire stuff, but yeah, it would be a mess. They've lived with that artillery threat for a couple generations. Kind of supply that it's the missiles that are writing the headlines, but that's the threat of eventual nuclear ICBMs, something needs to change.

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39 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

So kill every single NK, man woman and child?

Right when I thought we could have a rational discussion you come back with this crap.  The goal of the US MILITARY is to destroy the opposing military threat.   Not target Civilians. 

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4 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

Right when I thought we could have a rational discussion you come back with this crap.  The goal of the US MILITARY is to destroy the opposing military threat.   Not target Civilians. 

Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

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25 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Naw - even you know that we engage in military conflicts in a manner designed to minimize harm to innocents.  The current generations of NK have a tough path forward no matter what, many are starving, largely insulated from access to external awareness, and via "juche", kinda brainwashed so that they'd treat any external attempts to help them as a threat.  Whoever breaks this, owns it for 3 generations. 

North Korea is very likely the poorest country on Earth. Everyone who isn't in the gov't or the military... and up a few steps from the bottom, even there... is on the brink of starving. Literally the country's only asset is it's weaponry aimed at South Korea, Japan, and of course the US. I've read a little about what's going on inside, hard to get the real story (and they do lure tourists in, take their money, and occasionally arrest and torture a few). It seems like the kind of place where your neighbor might stab you in your sleep for the sake of the half potato hidden under your bed, to feed his kids.

They were getting subsidies from Russia for a long time, like Cuba, but that all stopped as the USSR spent itself into becoming a post-bankruptcy oligarchy.

As IB and others have said, Kim is trying to parlay his threats into some kind of bail out. The UN and the US and China have all played along, largely because there aren't any good options. We may be assuming China has more influence than they really do. Dropping a MOAB on Kim's nuclear facility could easily trigger a massive conventional attack on South Korea, eliminating a couple hundred thousand citizens of one of our best allies. The best possible military outcome is very risky. If I were Kim I'd hide something big in the US first, maybe triggered by cell phone, and -then- start blustering and trying to start a hand of nuclear poker. He's fuckin' looney all right, but even though he's not too bright he has some clever people working for him. Although holding yourself hostage (any military action is likely to be catastrophic for Norks) is not something most of the world thinks of as smart.

-DSK

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Send in Dennis Rodman! 

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

North Korea is very likely the poorest country on Earth. Everyone who isn't in the gov't or the military... and up a few steps from the bottom, even there... is on the brink of starving. Literally the country's only asset is it's weaponry aimed at South Korea, Japan, and of course the US. I've read a little about what's going on inside, hard to get the real story (and they do lure tourists in, take their money, and occasionally arrest and torture a few). It seems like the kind of place where your neighbor might stab you in your sleep for the sake of the half potato hidden under your bed, to feed his kids.

They were getting subsidies from Russia for a long time, like Cuba, but that all stopped as the USSR spent itself into becoming a post-bankruptcy oligarchy.

As IB and others have said, Kim is trying to parlay his threats into some kind of bail out. The UN and the US and China have all played along, largely because there aren't any good options. We may be assuming China has more influence than they really do. Dropping a MOAB on Kim's nuclear facility could easily trigger a massive conventional attack on South Korea, eliminating a couple hundred thousand citizens of one of our best allies. The best possible military outcome is very risky. If I were Kim I'd hide something big in the US first, maybe triggered by cell phone, and -then- start blustering and trying to start a hand of nuclear poker. He's fuckin' looney all right, but even though he's not too bright he has some clever people working for him. Although holding yourself hostage (any military action is likely to be catastrophic for Norks) is not something most of the world thinks of as smart.

-DSK

By and large, I agree.  The preferable approach to the NK situation has been tried before - and while I'd like to see that approach dusted off, modernized and tried again?   I don't know that Kim Jong Un is of a mindset to appreciate that diplomacy is preferable to annihilation. 

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24 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Hiroshima, Nagasaki.

Then there are: externalities, spillover effects, unintended consequences, and the always dependable collateral damage.

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18 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

By and large, I agree.  The preferable approach to the NK situation has been tried before - and while I'd like to see that approach dusted off, modernized and tried again?   I don't know that Kim Jong Un is of a mindset to appreciate that diplomacy is preferable to annihilation. 

Well, he isn't interested in playing any game that doesn't result in him staying in charge. Should he care if Norklandia is destroyed, if he's not the leader and best-fed person in the country? To that extent he's rational (defining "rational" as persuing one's own self-interest).

I think we should fly over Norkistan with food packages. Drop a couple million MREs randomly around the countryside, Kim and his army will be too busy keeping a grip on their own country and he'll have a really hard time convincing their peasantry to hate the USA.

-DSK

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9 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, he isn't interested in playing any game that doesn't result in him staying in charge. Should he care if Norklandia is destroyed, if he's not the leader and best-fed person in the country? To that extent he's rational (defining "rational" as persuing one's own self-interest).

I think we should fly over Norkistan with food packages. Drop a couple million MREs randomly around the countryside, Kim and his army will be too busy keeping a grip on their own country and he'll have a really hard time convincing their peasantry to hate the USA.

-DSK

Gift certificates and Frederick's of Hollywood catalogs?  ;-)   Your thought is exactly where I was going w/the earlier idea of helping the people, and letting Kim say what he wants about how/why that came to be, while the rest of the world smiles, and says "That's nice". 

 

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10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Gift certificates and Frederick's of Hollywood catalogs?  ;-)   Your thought is exactly where I was going w/the earlier idea of helping the people, and letting Kim say what he wants about how/why that came to be, while the rest of the world smiles, and says "That's nice". 

 

I like it.

The problem we have now is that any aid coming in goes thru Kim and his little helpers. Sort of like the problems we've had in other 3rd World countries where warlords choke off aid and turn it to their own use. What we've got to do is figure out how to get help into the peoples' hands without Kim and his elk getting their paws on it.

-DSK

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2 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Would you consider a military response to missiles launched at Guam a war of aggression?

First off, let me take a step back and say that Trumps response in Syria after the chemical weapons use WAS carefully calibrated, and we haven't seen a repeat use of those weapons. So I should be more measured in my comments on thus issue as far as Trumps ability to send a message. 

I also appreciate that he is not backing off just because Lil Kim is ranting. His chaotic TWEETs and fire breathing statements are dangerous, tho.

Missles launched in Guam's direction, but landing more than a couple hundred miles away do not justify a military response. More diplomacy.

Closer than that deserves a calibrated response involving flybys or flyovers, shifting battle groups, tank division readiness, etc. 

And fat boy's 40KM target? They don't have the kind of accuracy, as far as I understand, to guarantee that close a miss. That's overtly threatening to US forces, and I'd expect a limited conventional weapons attack on Bureau 121 or Unit 180. Something sneaky and impressive, highlighting our capabilities. 

Missiles hitting Guam would be an act of war. The Chiefs and our CIC can handle that ok without my input. 

Im not totally sure of the 24mile accuracy of their missles, so I guess I'm not too certain where my response goes loud. 

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2 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

So kill every single NK, man woman and child?

The herd need needs thinning. N'est pas?

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16 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

First off, let me take a step back and say that Trumps response in Syria after the chemical weapons use WAS carefully calibrated, and we haven't seen a repeat use of those weapons. So I should be more measured in my comments on thus issue as far as Trumps ability to send a message. 

I also appreciate that he is not backing off just because Lil Kim is ranting. His chaotic TWEETs and fire breathing statements are dangerous, tho.

Missles launched in Guam's direction, but landing more than a couple hundred miles away do not justify a military response. More diplomacy.

Closer than that deserves a calibrated response involving flybys or flyovers, shifting battle groups, tank division readiness, etc. 

And fat boy's 40KM target? They don't have the kind of accuracy, as far as I understand, to guarantee that close a miss. That's overtly threatening to US forces, and I'd expect a limited conventional weapons attack on Bureau 121 or Unit 180. Something sneaky and impressive, highlighting our capabilities. 

Missiles hitting Guam would be an act of war. The Chiefs and our CIC can handle that ok without my input. 

Im not totally sure of the 24mile accuracy of their missles, so I guess I'm not too certain where my response goes loud. 

That was the scenario I was referring to.

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2 hours ago, SV Airlie said:

Tacks are sharp You being sharp as a hammer would be appropriate. Hammers aren't very sharp.Guess you've never stepped on a tack barefoot!

He's so poetic.

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16 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

He's so poetic.

And your such an idiot! I'm NOT thinly one to post that on PA either! As Trump says, I've heard it from many sources. ( Would have said "read" but, Trump doesn't read!

 

PS, my poetry has been published! Has yours? No, didn't think so.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

North Korea is very likely the poorest country on Earth. Everyone who isn't in the gov't or the military... and up a few steps from the bottom, even there... is on the brink of starving. Literally the country's only asset is it's weaponry aimed at South Korea, Japan, and of course the US. I've read a little about what's going on inside, hard to get the real story (and they do lure tourists in, take their money, and occasionally arrest and torture a few). It seems like the kind of place where your neighbor might stab you in your sleep for the sake of the half potato hidden under your bed, to feed his kids.

 

Looks like any collateral damage would be considered  an act of kindness.  

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3 hours ago, Turd Sandwich said:

10 Moabs directed to every place the fat bastard has ever laid his head

10 more to every military command center

Sink every ship

Blow every plane

Done in an hour

The end

Should have happened 40 years ago 

Yeah, because every time the Air Force promised they could win the war singlehandedly, they didn't.  All the way back to the Revolutionary War!

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17 minutes ago, soak_ed said:

Yeah, because every time the Air Force promised they could win the war singlehandedly, they didn't.  All the way back to the Revolutionary War!

First Colonial airborne division: Army Air Corps

 

Image result for attempts at flight pics

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On 8/10/2017 at 6:22 PM, Mrleft8 said:

1 minute 42 seconds from launch to landing(Impact)..... You think you can shoot a sparrow out of the sky, not knowing exactly where it's coming from, or where exactly it's going, in that time? How about 4 of them? Good luck with that.

I'm still curious about this claim.  What it's supposed to be in reference to, and where you got it from?

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12 minutes ago, frenchie said:

I'm still curious about this claim.  What it's supposed to be in reference to, and where you got it from?

The minuteman programme? :)

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21 minutes ago, frenchie said:

I'm still curious about this claim.  What it's supposed to be in reference to, and where you got it from?

I think it's bad math. From Post #1...

“The Hwasong-12 rockets to be launched by the KPA [Korean People’s Army] will cross the sky above Shimani, Hiroshima and Koichi prefectures of Japan,” the statement said. “They will fly for 3,356.7 km for 1,065 seconds and hit the waters 30 to 40km away from Guam.”

I get 17.75 minutes from that.

 

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22 hours ago, SV Airlie said:

First Colonial airborne division: Army Air Corps

 

Image result for attempts at flight pics

Nek minute computer modeling shows this shape perfect for the war against terror stealth planes!

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Just now, Shortforbob said:

Well it wouldn't exactly be the first time US has started a war with flawed intelligence.

Sadly, a very accurate statement  :(

 

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well it wouldn't exactly be the first time US has started a war with flawed intelligence.

It could well be the last if the crazier crazies take over.

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I wonder if this little tidbit will make Fox news or get buried. Embarrassing. 

Mine you, it's only the tabloids running the story ATM.

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War with Norkistan?  Meh

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We are far more likely to be harmed by Radical Republican Terrorists. 

We need a travel ban from Red counties to blue counties.

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9 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Well it wouldn't exactly be the first time US has started a war with flawed intelligence.

The wars in the ME were started for control of the oil.  The "flawed intelligence" was the excuse.  As with all wars, public opinion is the greatest asset or liability.

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21 minutes ago, kmacdonald said:

The wars in the ME were started for control of the oil.  The "flawed intelligence" was the excuse.  As with all wars, public opinion is the greatest asset or liability.

Yes, I should have used inverted commas.

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So, how long before the world community starts to talk about crazies with nukes and points at the US

trade embargoes?

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20 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

So, how long before the world community starts to talk about crazies with nukes and points at the US

trade embargoes?

Why do you hate this country?  

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On 8/11/2017 at 11:28 AM, Steam Flyer said:

Well, he isn't interested in playing any game that doesn't result in him staying in charge. Should he care if Norklandia is destroyed, if he's not the leader and best-fed person in the country? To that extent he's rational (defining "rational" as persuing one's own self-interest).

I think we should fly over Norkistan with food packages. Drop a couple million MREs randomly around the countryside, Kim and his army will be too busy keeping a grip on their own country and he'll have a really hard time convincing their peasantry to hate the USA.

-DSK

It seems that their economy has changed a lot over the last few years, now that China isn't buying their isolationist market. North Koreans now do a good bit of trade in basic foods and items. Their quality of life has increased since the depths of the famine years, and working with Chinese traders more closely has made them more aware. There is even a building boom there.

Kim may not be losing his grip on power, but his family is losing their grip on the economy, and that's the first step. Things will probably change there inthefuture, probably the near future. As long as we can stay out of it and let China break them open over a decade, we'll be okay. Geography works in our favor, they can't economically develop intermediate and longer range missiles without having an immediate justification and way to test them, and they can't do that without flying them over other countries.

Here's the thing that concerns me ... I wonder if NK might in fact be beating President Trump at chess. They announce a plan for missiles off the coast of Guam, after flying over Japan. Trump threatens.

What if their intention was never Guam in the first place? What if their intention was in establishing a precedence for flying those things over Japan? They would need to do that to develop immediate and longer range missiles for export to Pakistan, UAE, and terrorists. So a chess move might be to threaten Guam, then back down and "just" launch over Japan and splash somewhere in the North Pacific. Trump claims victory, but they got what they wanted, which is a trailblazed to their with over-Japan launches.

I think we need to get straight with China and Russia over this, they both share borders with NK and China trades heavily with them. We don't want those missiles going over Japan, regardless the final destination. If they can't make sure that happens, then we develop rare earth element mining and conductor mining with Brazil.

China sees the USA as the instigator with NK (and we are, in many ways) but a missile launch over Japan would compete with China's military hardware industry, as well as their mining relationships with the USA.

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16 hours ago, cmilliken said:

Their ICBM aspirations aren't the immediate concern anyway. The immediate concern is that they are able to start demonstrating the efficacy of those immediate-range missiles, and then start selling them to people whom we don't want to have them.

I think the intelligence is not flawed in this case, but the reporting is.

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25 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Their ICBM aspirations aren't the immediate concern anyway. The immediate concern is that they are able to start demonstrating the efficacy of those immediate-range missiles, and then start selling them to people whom we don't want to have them.

I think the intelligence is not flawed in this case, but the reporting is.

I agree completely :) including the reporting.

The North Koreans major export for hard currency is coal and weapons.  I believe there is a lot of 'dual purpose' going on, for most of these tests.  A lot of this is 'field demonstrations' for the appropriate customers.

The MIT guys are usually pretty accurate but just like the 'WMD' stories in Syria, do the math and if it doesn't agree with the narrative, so squash the math.

It's interesting that Newsweek will site the authors THIS time and Yahoo will pick it up whereas last time, he was mocked by the Times and Washington Post as a 'conspiracy theorist' for not agreeing with the 'official narrative'.

https://www.thenation.com/article/the-chemical-weapons-attack-in-syria-is-there-a-place-for-skepticism/

 

 

 

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Chomsky Bombshell: US Rejected N. Korean Peace Offer

 

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

So, how long before the world community starts to talk about crazies with nukes and points at the US

trade embargoes?

I dare em!

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2 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Why do you hate this country?  

"Hate the sin, love the sinner."

 

did I get the quote right?

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2 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

"Hate the sin, love the sinner."

 

did I get the quote right?

Don't know, but I don't see it a sin for the US to have Nukes nor do I see bringing up  an embargo against this country as anything but un- American.  Leave it to the foreigners like Meli and Bent

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What if one of Kim's missiles happens to hit a boat or ship when it crashes in the sea?    I realize it's only slightly more likely then a meteorite, but Kim lacks the precision to hit a designated empty spot or the navy to cordon off an area and make sure there are no fishermen.   Is that sufficient for Trump to start an undeclared war if the Orange man was watching Patton and decides it would be fun to be a wartime president leading heros? 

 

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1 hour ago, Lark said:

What if one of Kim's missiles happens to hit a boat or ship when it crashes in the sea?    I realize it's only slightly more likely then a meteorite, but Kim lacks the precision to hit a designated empty spot or the navy to cordon off an area and make sure there are no fishermen.   Is that sufficient for Trump to start an undeclared war if the Orange man was watching Patton and decides it would be fun to be a wartime president leading heros? 

 

You mean like a sub surfacing under a pleasure boat? Or a destroyer hitting a freighter in a shipping lane? Never happen

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7 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

You mean like a sub surfacing under a pleasure boat? Or a destroyer hitting a freighter in a shipping lane? Never happen

Fortunately the Japanese fishing industry didn't declare war on the us.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_merchant_ships

for what it's worth, the North Koreans have 122 slow moving merchant ships and almost as many navy ships and subs, some of which work.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_North_Korean_ships

Note the 1936 minesweepers.

 

http://www.cpf.navy.mil/about/

the US pacific fleet only has 200 ships and subs to ram them with.

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On 8/10/2017 at 8:30 PM, kent_island_sailor said:

Meli,

Imagine I am your insane neighbor and I am drunk and on meth. I like to sit on my front porch and shoot my 12 gauge at you. So far I have loaded it with blanks, but I have been bragging in the bar about how I cast some slugs that will fit my gun. One day I won't be shooting blanks and if you wait for me to pull the trigger to find out........ :o

If we're imagining things, how about this:

Family Services tears you apart from your wife/husband because they were seen reading a red book they found lying in the street. they build a brick wall through the middle of your house. They put snipers on all the roofs of nearby houses to shoot delivery men, and 50 riot police set up a permenant camp on your lawn. A few times per year they conduct dress-rehearsals for smashing your door in.

 

I think everyone agrees that the North Korean government is pretty extreme. The only difficulty seems to be american politicians and talking heads accepting that the situation is entirely their own fault.

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On 8/12/2017 at 4:05 AM, phillysailor said:

First off, let me take a step back and say that Trumps response in Syria after the chemical weapons use WAS carefully calibrated, and we haven't seen a repeat use of those weapons. So I should be more measured in my comments on thus issue as far as Trumps ability to send a message. 

Actually, we did. The next week a whole bunch of people died in almost exactly the same circumstances.

But they were american bombs, so no story.

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12 hours ago, TMSAIL said:

Don't know, but I don't see it a sin for the US to have Nukes nor do I see bringing up  an embargo against this country as anything but un- American.  Leave it to the foreigners like Meli and Bent

Uh, why would I do that?

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