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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Turd Sandwich

CVille WTF

106 posts in this topic

Where do these people come from?

First where are all these supremacist fucks from anyway out of town? They sure as shit dont call CVille home

Second where do you get a bunch of anti protesters armed for battle just like the Nazi fucks out of town as well? No way are these people CVille residents in their entirety 

Seems to me that Cville was just the meeting place because of the statue dust up but who knew these people traveled and communicated so well. It like the whole street fight was planned months ago this just didnt spring up over night in some grass roots fashion this shit is financed on both sides

I have spent a shit ton of time in that town and there aint no way in hell that shit popped up over night on either side. That place for one is a very liberal college town laid back as they come you just are not going to be able to pull this together out of a bunch of UVA students. No way in hell.

So who buses these fuck sticks around? Fuck me what a mess. I am still completely shocked that crap went down in that town

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Trump is a racist, white supremacist and member of the KKK! 

 

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Facts from what I have heard .  Could be bullshit.  

Charlottesville (town or UVA) decided to remove a statue or Robert E. Lee. Alt Right assholes planned a protest and got a permit (so I have heard). Judge put a 6 month hold on removing the statue while a lawsuit to stop the removal proceeds. Others decided to counter protest. No permit. 

After Friday night, which got feisty, Alt right permit cancelled, making Saturday's planned and previously permitted protest (and the counter protest) unlawful assemblies.  Surprise .  Both groups showed up anyway, ready to fight.

They got their fight.

Charlottesville put in a tough position.  alt right 1st Amendment right to assemble and all that.  Counter protest pretty much guaranteed violence would break out.  

The rest is all on the news. Both sides showed up armed to some extent.  Alt right asshole ran his car into a crowd, killing one and injuring several. Arrested and going to be charged. 

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1 hour ago, Turd Sandwich said:

Where do these people come from?

First where are all these supremacist fucks from anyway out of town? They sure as shit dont call CVille home

Second where do you get a bunch of anti protesters armed for battle just like the Nazi fucks out of town as well? No way are these people CVille residents in their entirety 

Seems to me that Cville was just the meeting place because of the statue dust up but who knew these people traveled and communicated so well. It like the whole street fight was planned months ago this just didnt spring up over night in some grass roots fashion this shit is financed on both sides

I have spent a shit ton of time in that town and there aint no way in hell that shit popped up over night on either side. That place for one is a very liberal college town laid back as they come you just are not going to be able to pull this together out of a bunch of UVA students. No way in hell.

So who buses these fuck sticks around? Fuck me what a mess. I am still completely shocked that crap went down in that town

The Chump brings out the worst in people.

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In the thread about this thing, there's a Twitter link to the law enforcement affidavit which spells out the more complete version of the background of this stuff and this incident. 

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10 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

The Chump brings out the worst in people.

This puts it perfectly.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politics/trump-charlottesville-statement/index.html

Donald Trump's incredibly unpresidential statement on Charlottesville

What Trump is doing -- wittingly or unwittingly -- is giving cover to the sort of beliefs (and I use that word lightly) on display in Charlottesville today.
Chalking it all up to a violent political rhetoric that occurs on both sides and has been around for a very long time contextualizes and normalizes the behavior of people who should not be normalized. It is not everyday political rhetoric to scream epithets at people who don't look like you or worship like you. Trump's right that this sort of behavior has existed on American society's fringes for a long time -- but what we as a nation, led by our presidents, have always done is call it out for what it is: radical racism that has no place in our world.
So, that's the big one. But there are other things in Trump's statement that are also worth calling out -- most notably "not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama."
What Trump is doing here is pre-emptively absolving himself of blame for creating a political climate in the country in which people like these "Unite the Right" demonstrators feel emboldened enough to rally in public. Not my fault, Trump is saying. There were hate groups and hate speech under Obama too!
With someone dead and more than two dozen people injured, this is, of course, not the time for assigning blame. Or for making political calculations. This is a time to say: We stand together against what we saw in Charlottesville today. Trump didn't do that. Not even close.
Then, last but not least, is what Trump said a few paragraphs after his "on many sides" comment. Here it is:
"Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad."
Bipartisan condemnation for 'Unite the Right' rally
Really? A pivot to an I-am-not-getting-enough-credit-for-all-the-good-I-am-doing-in-the-country line? With scenes of hatred splashed across TV screens? With someone dead?

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This is the Wiemar Republic 2017 version. Left and Right mobs fighting street battles. 

Reichstag fire coming in .............5...........4.........3..................2

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7 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This is the Wiemar Republic 2017 version. Left and Right mobs fighting street battles. 

Reichstag fire coming in .............5...........4.........3..................2

Pretty damn ugly, isn't it?

To me the burning question is what are the limitations of "free speech" and assembly?  Are hate groups free spout hate?  What defines domestic terror?  At what point can reasonable people say "no. You don't have the right to speak those views."  

 

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1 minute ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Pretty damn ugly, isn't it?

To me the burning question is what are the limitations of "free speech" and assembly?  Are hate groups free spout hate?  What defines domestic terror?  At what point can reasonable people say "no. You don't have the right to speak those views."  

 

The police canceled the permit.  They had to know they would show up anyway.  Governor could have called out the national guard and prevented the two groups from getting together.   

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If only citronella repelled racists as well as it does mosquitos. 

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14 minutes ago, TMSAIL said:

The police canceled the permit.  They had to know they would show up anyway.  Governor could have called out the national guard and prevented the two groups from getting together.   

Yup, time to blame someone else! Trump does that all the time! The cops are at fault!. NO, the white supremacists are at fault, they organized the rally but, were waiting for a RUMBLE which is what they wanted.

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This is how the police should respond to these Trump Supporters.

ferguson-police-call-for-end-to-night-pr

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5 minutes ago, Spatial Ed said:

This is how the police should respond to these Trump Supporters.

ferguson-police-call-for-end-to-night-pr

That's all wrong, not the dress White Supremacists use and it's a woman. Must be, the cops are picking on the wrong group here.

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Build a Shitheadpalooza, and they will come. 

Everybody loves a train wreck. Hey look, we're on TV

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2 hours ago, TMSAIL said:
2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Pretty damn ugly, isn't it?

To me the burning question is what are the limitations of "free speech" and assembly?  Are hate groups free spout hate?  What defines domestic terror?  At what point can reasonable people say "no. You don't have the right to speak those views."  

 

The police canceled the permit.  They had to know they would show up anyway.  Governor could have called out the national guard and prevented the two groups from getting together.   

Yep. Difficult situation entirely. In a free country, the citizens have a right to assemble and protest.

At what point do alt-right and hate groups lose their right to free speech? When they advocate violence and armed rebellion IMHO. Marching around giving Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags is pretty much announcing that you are an enemy of the USA even if you live here, again IMHO.

-DSK

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51 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Yep. Difficult situation entirely. In a free country, the citizens have a right to assemble and protest.

At what point do alt-right and hate groups lose their right to free speech? When they advocate violence and armed rebellion IMHO. Marching around giving Hitler salutes and waving Nazi flags is pretty much announcing that you are an enemy of the USA even if you live here, again IMHO.

-DSK

I would argue then that you must agree that those who showed up on Inauguration Day with helmets, gas masks, hammers and steel bars and then proceeded to break out shop windows, burn a limo, etc. have forfeited their right to free speech as well. Are churches where the pastor preaches "God Damn the USA!" enemies of the country that should be banned?

Point being is one man's free speech is another's hate speech, illegal assembly and riot. To Tom's cites, is it free speech only when you approve of the message?  I'm pretty conflicted.  I find the skinhead/KKK message and actions abhorrent but should they be denied their voice?  At some point, I think we have to say enough but don't know where the line lies  

In Charlottesville, are the counter protestors, who apparently didn't have a permit and came specifically to confront and object to the exercise of free speech just as guilty as the skinheads for the violence that ensued?

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I would argue then that you must agree that those who showed up on Inauguration Day with helmets, gas masks, hammers and steel bars and then proceeded to break out shop windows, burn a limo, etc. have forfeited their right to free speech as well. Are churches where the pastor preaches "God Damn the USA!" enemies of the country that should be banned?    ...   ...   ...

I would say that the people who showed up on Inauguration Day and broke windows etc etc were criminals and should be treated as such. Once a mob of people begins group violence, then people who dressed as members of that mob should expect to be treated as members of that mob... all to get their day in court, sure.

If an organized group of people started a public campaign, on facebook or whatever, stating that their aims were to beat and injure Trump supporters, to smash windows of Trump supporters' homes, etc etc, then those people should be prevented from using "free speech" to organize their activities.

As far as I know, shouting "God Damn the United States" is not a crime nor a threat. Maybe if you shout it in a church, it falls under freedom of religion. I am not a church goer but if I were, I would not attend such a church. OTOH I would urge that a rally to burn down that church would not be a protected form of assembly, either.

There's a gray area, sure. But when the intent is to cause great harm and injury, then it's just criminal no matter what the political cover story.

-DSK

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Gropenfuhrer is a Radical Republican Terrorist sympathizer. He hates America. 

We need a red state travel ban... in fact.. around here we should restrict travel from red counties to blue counties 

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If most folks who show up for a rally wearing steel toed boots and helmets on a hot day are all given shields they are probably not bikers or construction workers doing medieval cosplay. At what point can the intent of the assembly be inferred to be in violation of their permit? I'm guessing local ordinances would cover the issue, but that doesn't lend much clarity. 

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The First Amendment contains the word "Peaceably."  The protected right is the right "peaceably to assemble."  

More and more often, we seem to be posting it with just the "assemble" part. The right to get together for a race riot is not protected. 

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2 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Point being is one man's free speech is another's hate speech, illegal assembly and riot. To Tom's cites, is it free speech only when you approve of the message?  I'm pretty conflicted.  I find the skinhead/KKK message and actions abhorrent but should they be denied their voice?  At some point, I think we have to say enough but don't know where the line lies  

Charlottsville denied them their permit for the Saturday rally because 1) they substantially underestimated the number of participants 2) the presence of armed "guard" being a part of the rally https://mobile.twitter.com/MattTalhelm/status/8960658546803466246624

As the murderer participated in the white pride asshole fest of a rally on Friday, no, I see no fucking reason why the counter-protesters are guilty for his action. You've got to stretch the moral equivalency a bit to fucking far to get there.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Charlottsville denied them their permit for the Saturday rally because 1) they substantially underestimated the number of participants 2) the presence of armed "guard" being a part of the rally https://mobile.twitter.com/MattTalhelm/status/8960658546803466246624

As the murderer particpated in the rally on Friday, no, I see no fucking reason why the counter-protesters are guilty for his action. You've got to stretch the moral equivalency a bit to fucking far to get thre

They probably jumped in front of the car!:wub:

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Do Republicans blame the victims of Radical Islamic Terrorism??

Why are Republicans refusing to label this as it is:

Radical Republican Terrorism 

IMG_3263.PNG

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Believe it or not, one of the presidential candidates in 2016 actually talked about these alt right shitlords and warned about them, but due to a variety of factors including her own shortcomings as a candidate, failed to get elected, and well, here we are.

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Just to stir the pot for kicks; Huffington! Guess there really is nothing new!

 

Donald Trump’s father was arrested at a Klan riot.

Most of the national media studiously avoided printing that simple declarative sentence since Donald Trump decided to run for president. Most of the country’s politicians have remained strangely silent on the topic.

Public commentators did not connect the dots even as President-elect Trump attacked the civil rights hero, John Lewis, when having a Klan sympathizer for a father would seem to be highly pertinent in explaining his behavior.

Yet the factual evidence seems strong. Trump’s father Fred was arrested in New York City in 1927, when a group of Klansmen got into a brawl with police officers during a Memorial Day parade in Queens. There is a document trail, and the names, dates, and addresses match up. The New York Times published a story about the riot and the seven men who were arrested; Fred Trump is mentioned by name. His address is given at 175-24 Devonshire Road, Jamaica, New York City, and the federal census of 1930 shows that Fred Trump resided at that address. The newspaper does not identify him as a Klan member, or clarify whether he was wearing a Klan robe—as were many of the demonstrators―but he did get arrested, and all seven men were represented by the same attorneys. Two days after the brawl, Fred Trump was discharged from custody, with no explanation that can be discovered from public records. The Times further reported that a police commissioner planned to investigate the Klan riot. 

After the website Boing Boing reported the story in 2015, Donald Trump denied it, and he has not publicly discussed it since then.

The New York Daily News, the Washington Post, the New York Times and a few other news outlets mentioned the connection briefly in 2016, and then they dropped it. Throughout the campaign, most of the media maintained a deafening silence, as did most of the nation’s politicians in both parties. If Fred Trump was a full-fledged Klansman, no one seemed interested in pursuing the story. A diligent researcher might have at least tried to find the commissioner report in the city archives. Journalists and politicians displayed the most determined zeal in investigating every aspect of Hillary Clinton’s email in 2016, and 20 years ago they showed the same zeal in investigating the Clintons’ investment in Whitewater.

Yet the family history of the Republican Party’s nominee merited nothing close to that scrutiny. And this is the immediate family, the man’s own father, not some distant ancestor from another century, a father with the power to shape the boy’s most profound assumptions about the world. Moreover, Donald Trump has often expressed his admiration for his father. Thoughtful adults can hear the echoes of one hundred years ago in the president’s encouragement of violence at campaign rallies, his prejudices against minorities, and his use of violent language.

 
 

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40 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Charlottsville denied them their permit for the Saturday rally because 1) they substantially underestimated the number of participants 2) the presence of armed "guard" being a part of the rally https://mobile.twitter.com/MattTalhelm/status/8960658546803466246624

As the murderer participated in the white pride asshole fest of a rally on Friday, no, I see no fucking reason why the counter-protesters are guilty for his action. You've got to stretch the moral equivalency a bit to fucking far to get there.

Please feel free to point out where I have excused the murderer. 

My purpose in this thread, now lost in the shouting is to ask what the limits to freedom of speech might be. Some rational discussion started but is now lost in the shouting.  

You and SV are welcome to continue your discussion alone. 

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8 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Please feel free to point out where I have excused the murderer. 

My purpose in this thread, now lost in the shouting is to ask what the limits to freedom of speech might be. Some rational discussion started but is now lost in the shouting.  

You and SV are welcome to continue your discussion alone. 

You asked, should the White Supremacists be denied their voice? Nuff said. Your suggesting they shouldn't which is fine if no one s physically injured and DOES HARM. These folks have demonstrated that they shouldn't. So, my answer to you is FUCKING NO!The rules apply to everyone, you can't pick and choose which ones you follow.

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3 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

In Charlottesville, are the counter protestors, who apparently didn't have a permit and came specifically to confront and object to the exercise of free speech just as guilty as the skinheads for the violence that ensued?

 

11 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Please feel free to point out where I have excused the murderer. 

What does "just as guilty as the skinheads for the violence that ensued?" mean in "rational independent" land? Who the fuck would ever think them just a guilty when the guy pictured front and center

]5000.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&f

 murdered people the next day?

If you want to drop crap like that and run, feel free. It's the way you roll. You have no intention of responding to fact (I posted it) and no interest other than spewing your own ill-informed opinion - just like me, SV, Shit Burrito, and all of the other idiots who infest this dump. So don't act all smug. You are part of the problem too.

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7 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

Pretty damn ugly, isn't it?

To me the burning question is what are the limitations of "free speech" and assembly?  Are hate groups free spout hate?  What defines domestic terror?  At what point can reasonable people say "no. You don't have the right to speak those views."  

 

I'd rather they speak so we know who the fucktards are. Like Moderate.

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3 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I'd rather they speak so we know who the fucktards are. Like Moderate.

preferably without guns!

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

This puts it perfectly.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/08/12/politics/trump-charlottesville-statement/index.html

Donald Trump's incredibly unpresidential statement on Charlottesville

What Trump is doing -- wittingly or unwittingly -- is giving cover to the sort of beliefs (and I use that word lightly) on display in Charlottesville today.
Chalking it all up to a violent political rhetoric that occurs on both sides and has been around for a very long time contextualizes and normalizes the behavior of people who should not be normalized. It is not everyday political rhetoric to scream epithets at people who don't look like you or worship like you. Trump's right that this sort of behavior has existed on American society's fringes for a long time -- but what we as a nation, led by our presidents, have always done is call it out for what it is: radical racism that has no place in our world.
So, that's the big one. But there are other things in Trump's statement that are also worth calling out -- most notably "not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama."
What Trump is doing here is pre-emptively absolving himself of blame for creating a political climate in the country in which people like these "Unite the Right" demonstrators feel emboldened enough to rally in public. Not my fault, Trump is saying. There were hate groups and hate speech under Obama too!
With someone dead and more than two dozen people injured, this is, of course, not the time for assigning blame. Or for making political calculations. This is a time to say: We stand together against what we saw in Charlottesville today. Trump didn't do that. Not even close.
Then, last but not least, is what Trump said a few paragraphs after his "on many sides" comment. Here it is:
"Our country is doing very well in so many ways. We have record -- just absolute record employment. We have unemployment, the lowest it's been in almost 17 years. We have companies pouring into our country. Foxconn and car companies, and so many others, they're coming back to our country. We're renegotiating trade deals to make them great for our country and great for the American worker. We have so many incredible things happening in our country. So when I watch Charlottesville, to me it's very, very sad."
Bipartisan condemnation for 'Unite the Right' rally
Really? A pivot to an I-am-not-getting-enough-credit-for-all-the-good-I-am-doing-in-the-country line? With scenes of hatred splashed across TV screens? With someone dead?

How are those reffos doing that youre holding offshore

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6 hours ago, Spatial Ed said:

This is how the police should respond to these Trump Supporters.

ferguson-police-call-for-end-to-night-pr

I think thats how they should deal with the Commies

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If the skinheads, neo-nazis, or any other hate group decide to rally in my town, I'll be out there trying to drown out the alt-right bullshit.  The alt-right can not be permitted to gain too big of a foothold in my country. Unfortunately america elected one, why, because Hilary. America is not Great and it will never achieve greatness with this bullshit lying just under the surface. 

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more divide in the GOP,  senator from florida

 

Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists

It took his wife and daughter to call out these people as the cowards  they are, cause, the POTUS doesn't have the Balls TOO! 
sure the rest of the world see what a pussy he is!

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4 minutes ago, garuda03 said:

more divide in the GOP,  senator from florida

 

Very important for the nation to hear @potus describe events in #Charlottesville for what they are, a terror attack by #whitesupremacists

It took his wife and daughter to call out these people as the cowards  they are, cause, the POTUS doesn't have the Balls TOO! 
sure the rest of the world see what a pussy he is!

Rubio wants to be president in 2020

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28 minutes ago, SV Airlie said:

Rubio wants to be president in 2020

Rubio wants to be Ivanka's VP...

 

can you blame him?

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Charlottsville denied them their permit for the Saturday rally because 1) they substantially underestimated the number of participants 2) the presence of armed "guard" being a part of the rally https://mobile.twitter.com/MattTalhelm/status/8960658546803466246624

As the murderer participated in the white pride asshole fest of a rally on Friday, no, I see no fucking reason why the counter-protesters are guilty for his action. You've got to stretch the moral equivalency a bit to fucking far to get there.

The irony of point 2), is that  -  according to one of the local anti-fascist counterprotest organizers  -  the militia guys were helpful in keeping things nonviolent. 

https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/896729296944975872

I've seen a few actual examples on twitter videos, two incidents where a fight almost breaks out, but wiser heads prevail  -  and it's the guys in camo who're keeping their side under control (grabging their side's hothead, dragging him back, calming him down). (as some antifas are doing the same with their side's hothead).

Three percenters = voice of reason.  Who'da thunk it?

 

10 hours ago, Turd Sandwich said:

Where do these people come from?

First where are all these supremacist fucks from anyway out of town? They sure as shit dont call CVille home

Second where do you get a bunch of anti protesters armed for battle just like the Nazi fucks out of town as well? No way are these people CVille residents in their entirety 

Seems to me that Cville was just the meeting place because of the statue dust up but who knew these people traveled and communicated so well. It like the whole street fight was planned months ago this just didnt spring up over night in some grass roots fashion this shit is financed on both sides

I have spent a shit ton of time in that town and there aint no way in hell that shit popped up over night on either side. That place for one is a very liberal college town laid back as they come you just are not going to be able to pull this together out of a bunch of UVA students. No way in hell.

So who buses these fuck sticks around? Fuck me what a mess. I am still completely shocked that crap went down in that town

Partisanship aside, locals seem pretty well-represented on the left side (the girl who was killed is a local; the girl whose twitter I just linked, above, is a local; the guy who got 8 staples & a broken wrist after the fascists beat him with bats, is a local). 

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25 minutes ago, frenchie said:

The irony of point 2), is that  -  according to one of the local anti-fascist counterprotest organizers  -  the militia guys were helpful in keeping things nonviolent. 

https://twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/896729296944975872

I've seen a few actual examples on twitter videos, two incidents where a fight almost breaks out, but wiser heads prevail  -  and it's the guys in camo who're keeping their side under control (grabging their side's hothead, dragging him back, calming him down). (as some antifas are doing the same with their side's hothead).

Three percenters = voice of reason.  Who'da thunk it?

that's the Cville affadavit, not my logic, but the irony is noted.

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

 

What does "just as guilty as the skinheads for the violence that ensued?" mean in "rational independent" land? Who the fuck would ever think them just a guilty when the guy pictured front and center

]5000.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&f

 murdered people the next day?

If you want to drop crap like that and run, feel free. It's the way you roll. You have no intention of responding to fact (I posted it) and no interest other than spewing your own ill-informed opinion - just like me, SV, Shit Burrito, and all of the other idiots who infest this dump. So don't act all smug. You are part of the problem too.

What's "fact" are you speaking of?  The fact that the counter protest folks were significantly represented by Antifa, a radical left wing group out to violently oppose the alt.right?

My point on shared blame for the violence is those on both sides of an issue looking for violence often find it.  

Back to the point.  Where is the line where we deny free speech?  Is it, as Sol seems to have suggested, when the organization has demonstrated that their speech is generally not "peaceable"?  Who gets to decide?  

 

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16 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

My point on shared blame for the violence is those on both sides of an issue looking for violence often find it.  

 

One group found it much more than another. That's my point. Because there are dead and injured on one side, and it's the fault of those that committed the crime. Nobody else. If you don't realize this you might be part of the problem.

If you continually don't call a spade a spade, you might not be the "independent" you claim to be. It's ok, there are many others like you.

 

- I posted why CVille decided to revoke the rally. Their reasonings, which are more interesting than bullshit that never goes anywhere.

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18 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

...    ...    ...

My point on shared blame for the violence is those on both sides of an issue looking for violence often find it. 

 

??? So the girl who got run over shares equal blame with the murderous nazi shit-stain who ran over her?

-DSK

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3 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

??? So the girl who got run over shares equal blame with the murderous nazi shit-stain who ran over her?

-DSK

She came looking for a fight,

She got one.

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17 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

??? So the girl who got run over shares equal blame with the murderous nazi shit-stain who ran over her?

-DSK

Jesus. Overstate much?  No. That was a clearly a criminal and probably terrorist act. 

As to the scuffles and violence during the "rally", Antifa was part of the problem. https://thinkprogress.org/white-supremacist-rally-charlottesville-9dc4fa92f40c/

That group in DC you called criminal?  Antifa. 

 

Moderate. STFU. 

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12 minutes ago, Moderate said:

She came looking for a fight,

She got one.

Was she armed?

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Just now, SV Airlie said:

Was she armed?

I havent seen any reports one way or the other

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Rights are not absolute. Whether it be free speech or gun ownership. When an action undermines civil society, it should no longer be protected.

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2 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

 

Moderate. STFU. 

Go blow a dog

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Just now, ease the sheet said:

Rights are not absolute. Whether it be free speech or gun ownership. When an action undermines civil society, it should no longer be protected.

Rights by definition are absolute

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1 minute ago, Moderate said:

Rights by definition are absolute

Rights are a man made construct and, as such, can be varied indefinitely.

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1 minute ago, ease the sheet said:

Rights are a man made construct and, as such, can be varied indefinitely.

By the victor

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22 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Rights by definition are absolute

SCOTUS has never agreed with that position.

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

did you quit raping your wife real man?

I sent that cunt packing 15 years ago

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28 minutes ago, Moderate said:

Rights by definition are absolute

On what planet?  My right to swing my fist ends at the tip of your nose.  Cliche for a reason.

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34 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:
51 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

??? So the girl who got run over shares equal blame with the murderous nazi shit-stain who ran over her?

-DSK

Jesus. Overstate much?  No. That was a clearly a criminal and probably terrorist act. 

As to the scuffles and violence during the "rally", Antifa was part of the problem. https://thinkprogress.org/white-supremacist-rally-charlottesville-9dc4fa92f40c/

That group in DC you called criminal?  Antifa. 

 

Moderate. STFU. 

You -seem- to be trying to draw an equivalence between the groups. The article you cite blames both, except that it was the white supremacists who were pushing forward into an area they had been told not to enter, and one of whom fired a 'smoking canister' at the other group. That and the fact that it was one of them who committed murder by motor vehicle, seem to place by far the greater blame on them IMHO.

Are you fascist, that you think anti-fascists are bad? I am against mob violence, but I am also against fascists. It's better to be pro-something than anti, but being against fascism is a good thing to be against.

Moderate seems to be having some kind of breakdown lately, I am a little surprised he has declaring himself to be a racist hemorrhoid. But I suspect he will not like laying down in the bed he's made. I was very surprised by your statements and hope I have mis-read them. It is in NO way 'conservative' to be allied with white supremacists and Nazis.

-DSK

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If you against fascism, why are antifa so bad? If you support the 2nd, why are their methods abhorrent?

 

Personally, I'm not in favour of violence. But, and it's a big but, a war was fought against fascism, why be squeamish now?

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18 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Moderate seems to be having some kind of breakdown lately, I am a little surprised he has declaring himself to be a racist hemorrhoid. But I suspect he will not like laying down in the bed he's made. I was very surprised by your statements and hope I have mis-read them. It is in NO way 'conservative' to be allied with white supremacists and Nazis.

-DSK

Were you standing in West Germany against the Communists?

I was. Ill stand against that flag till my dying day

Fuck you pussy

commie-antifa-maroons.jpg.28e6fd6d05ed5b84c030581f31692d51.jpg

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Just now, Moderate said:

Were you standing in West Germany against the Communists?

I was.

Fuck you pussy

Ah yes, the old "I was fighting Communism" thing. I was in the Navy and rode around on tin cans. A dangerous job even if nobody is shooting at you, although you do get 3 squares a day and dry place to sleep. You don't got a durn thing over me in the "I fought for America" category. Certainly not sailing chops either.

And serving in the US military should give you a sense of what principles the USA was built on. Got a clue?

Calling people names over the internet makes you a real bad ass. You can lick the sweat out of the crack of my ass, tough guy.

-DSK

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25 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

You -seem- to be trying to draw an equivalence between the groups. The article you cite blames both, except that it was the white supremacists who were pushing forward into an area they had been told not to enter, and one of whom fired a 'smoking canister' at the other group. That and the fact that it was one of them who committed murder by motor vehicle, seem to place by far the greater blame on them IMHO.

Are you fascist, that you think anti-fascists are bad? I am against mob violence, but I am also against fascists. It's better to be pro-something than anti, but being against fascism is a good thing to be against.

Moderate seems to be having some kind of breakdown lately, I am a little surprised he has declaring himself to be a racist hemorrhoid. But I suspect he will not like laying down in the bed he's made. I was very surprised by your statements and hope I have mis-read them. It is in NO way 'conservative' to be allied with white supremacists and Nazis.

-DSK

I suspect you have misread them. I'm on record as finding the alt.right, and all they stand for, abhorrent. If they have a right to free speech, and I admit to having emotional objection to but free speech support for their right, then I also object to an organization that chooses to confront them violently when they are expressing that right. Antifa is based on violent protest. I object to that. 

Again, the question originally in this thread was limits of free speech and can/shoud we restrict organizations such as alt.right?  Further, if we do restrict their speech, who draws the line and where?  Others seem to want to argue that if you don't want them silenced, you must be one of them.  I find it interesting that so many self  declared "leftists" are so quick to restrict free speech

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Just now, Innocent Bystander said:

I suspect you have misread them. I'm on record as finding the alt.right, and all they stand for, abhorrent. If they have a right to free speech, and I admit to having emotional objection to but free speech support for their right, then I also object to an organization that chooses to confront them violently when they are expressing that right. Antifa is based on violent protest. I object to that. 

If that's true, they're in the wrong, I agree

Again, the question originally in this thread was limits of free speech and can/shoud we restrict organizations such as alt.right?  Further, if we do restrict their speech, who draws the line and where?  

That's a good question. I don't have a better answer than the one I gave before. Free speech stops short of yelling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. Protest is fine, destruction and violence is criminal. Free speech is fine, inciting to violence is not, planning and ordering violence is not.

I've seen the "Black Lives Matter" protestors blamed for urging the killing of police, by righties. I have never heard any of them say any such thing.... for that matter, I have heard the urging of killing police attributed to Obama, too. The Antifa protestors are no friends of mine, anything you have to wear a mask to do is probably not good.

Who draws the line? Apparently state governors are among those who can draw -a- line. At least they are elected and presumably responsible to voting citizens. The Supreme Court is another. That said, I don't agree with all they've done, either

-DSK

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

You -seem- to be trying to draw an equivalence between the groups.

There is at least one: any way we try to censor one will censor the other, along with everyone else. And much like RICO or asset forfeiture, the real targets will turn out not to be the ones who made the headlines that justified the expansion of government power.

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The cats that were in this dust up dont represent democrats or republicans. To quote Gaytor "Reasonable people would see this immediately"

The people financing this shit should face charges. Its pretty obvious that the movement to remove these statues is the dog whistle for the skinheads and it seems to be the point. Right or wrong someone is throwing a bunch of money at the movement with the goal of starting riots and engaging the Alt Right. Someones big game of Risk at our expense.

Back in the day when groups like the skinheads would gather no one paid any attention and they went away. Everyone knew they were some fringe stupid shit. Not today now its "Lets Get It On" with a well financed planned response.

I read somewhere that this protest was advertised for months and about a 100 players is all that showed up for the Alt right. Well that makes me feel a lot better knowing that the movement is so tiny but i wonder if they realize they are being played and played big time. This is a big fucking game to a few.

I choose not to play

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18 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

The cats that were in this dust up dont represent democrats or republicans. To quote Gaytor "Reasonable people would see this immediately"

The people financing this shit should face charges. Its pretty obvious that the movement to remove these statues is the dog whistle for the skinheads and it seems to be the point. Right or wrong someone is throwing a bunch of money at the movement with the goal of starting riots and engaging the Alt Right. Someones big game of Risk at our expense.

Back in the day when groups like the skinheads would gather no one paid any attention and they went away. Everyone knew they were some fringe stupid shit. Not today now its "Lets Get It On" with a well financed planned response.

I read somewhere that this protest was advertised for months and about a 100 players is all that showed up for the Alt right. Well that makes me feel a lot better knowing that the movement is sou tiny but i wonder if they realize they are being played and played big time. This is a big fucking game to a few.

I choose not to play

You might want to check your source re the "100 players". This pic is from the warmup the night before the main event -

26FB867E-6D6C-4F61-AF0C-B8AB48C873E3-6625-00000701454AEED0.jpeg

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11 hours ago, Moderate said:

Were you standing in West Germany against the Communists?

I was. Ill stand against that flag till my dying day

Fuck you pussy

commie-antifa-maroons.jpg.28e6fd6d05ed5b84c030581f31692d51.jpg

But what were you standing for

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4 minutes ago, Sean said:

You might want to check your source re the "100 players". This pic is from the warmup the night before the main event -

26FB867E-6D6C-4F61-AF0C-B8AB48C873E3-6625-00000701454AEED0.jpeg

Well that sucks. Where do these people come from? Who pays them, feeds them? Where do they stay. On either side Honey i hear there is a fight planned in Cville grab the bats and helmets lets get going dont want to be late for this one. Oh and dont forget the TIKI torches 

Seriously do you know anyone that would participate in shit like this I dont. Not one not even close. 

Obviously a lot of planning went into the alt right crap and the obvious planned response they even applied for permits.

We are being played and i call bullshit on the bullshit. Some people are fucking sheep i get that but where do you find the sheep that go to protests in face masks wearing helmets and carrying big sticks and other weapons. Me thinks you got to pay for that to happen.

PT Barnum would be proud of this circus act but i refuse to play someone else's game of divide the nation. 

They can all get fucked as far as i'm concerned

 

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29 minutes ago, Sean said:

You might want to check your source re the "100 players". This pic is from the warmup the night before the main event -

26FB867E-6D6C-4F61-AF0C-B8AB48C873E3-6625-00000701454AEED0.jpeg

You do realize that it was probably 85 degrees in CVille that night. Care to look at what the folks are wearing. Are you just fucking with me? If so thats pretty lame

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4 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

Ahh the Ukraine yeah thats on point

To Sean's point, I heard there were something like 2,000.

To your point, that does seem to be more than can be explained by locals.

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19 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

You do realize that it was probably 85 degrees in CVille that night. Care to look at what the folks are wearing. Are you just fucking with me? If so thats pretty lame

My bad, sorry bout that. Google image search on an iPhone. 

 

IMG_3176.JPG

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10 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

To Sean's point, I heard there were something like 2,000.

To your point, that does seem to be more than can be explained by locals.

They were definitely not locals.  They have publically called out Charlottesville as a place of protest due to the local decision top remove Lee's statue.  AIUI, their permit was initially denied and they sued in federal court under 1st amendment grounds.  Federal Judge ordered a permit Friday night for Saturday.  According to the press, the national alt.right movement is made up of some 1,600 total people. 

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1 minute ago, Innocent Bystander said:

They were definitely not locals.  They have publically called out Charlottesville as a place of protest due to the local decision top remove Lee's statue.  AIUI, their permit was initially denied and they sued in federal court under 1st amendment grounds.  Federal Judge ordered a permit Friday night for Saturday.  According to the press, the national alt.right movement is made up of some 1,600 total people. 

Thanks for that it puts it all in perspective.

We are being played in a big game of pin the neo nazi's all 1600 of them on the entire Republican party divide the nation winner take all game. Think for just a miniute the lives lost in CVille were at the end of the day lost because of some folks need for political gain. Thats some sick shit 

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12 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

They were definitely not locals.  They have publically called out Charlottesville as a place of protest due to the local decision top remove Lee's statue.  AIUI, their permit was initially denied and they sued in federal court under 1st amendment grounds.  Federal Judge ordered a permit Friday night for Saturday.  According to the press, the national alt.right movement is made up of some 1,600 total people. 

Permit app was for something like 400 people on Saturday, according to the law enforcement affidavit on that twitter feed.  

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13 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

They were definitely not locals.  They have publically called out Charlottesville as a place of protest due to the local decision top remove Lee's statue.  AIUI, their permit was initially denied and they sued in federal court under 1st amendment grounds.  Federal Judge ordered a permit Friday night for Saturday.  According to the press, the national alt.right movement is made up of some 1,600 total people. 

Alt.right ain't the only forum -

From Wikipedia 

Stormfront is a white nationalist,[3] white supremacist[4] and neo-Nazi[5] Internet forumthat was the Web's first major racial hate site.[6]

The total of registered users is just shy of 300,000, a fairly astounding number for a site run by an ex-felon and former Alabama Klan leader. And that doesn't include thousands of visitors who never register as users. At press time, Stormfront ranked as the Internet's 13,648th most popular site, while the NAACP site, by comparison, ranked 32,640th. – The Year in Hate and Extremism, 2015[28]

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Permit app was for something like 400 people on Saturday, according to the law enforcement affidavit on that twitter feed.  

With out the media there is no way in hell 400 or even 1600 people would be in control of the narrative of an entire country. Sad on so many levels

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Richmond Va. is next. They have an entire stretch of road called Monument Avenue. Perfect for the race baiter's and social justice warriors to poke another stick in the eye of the Alt right.

CVille was just practice for the main event only an hour away. 

Giving the neo fucks all this press sure isnt how you stomp out this kinda shit in my book. 

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6 minutes ago, Turd Sandwich said:

With out the media there is no way in hell 400 or even 1600 people would be in control of the narrative of an entire country. Sad on so many levels

Without the media, we wouldn't know! I guess your philosophy is what they don't know won't hurt.Ignorance IS bliss isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Turd Sandwich said:

Well that sucks. Where do these people come from? Who pays them, feeds them? Where do they stay. On either side Honey i hear there is a fight planned in Cville grab the bats and helmets lets get going dont want to be late for this one. Oh and dont forget the TIKI torches 

Seriously do you know anyone that would participate in shit like this I dont. Not one not even close. 

Obviously a lot of planning went into the alt right crap and the obvious planned response they even applied for permits.

We are being played and i call bullshit on the bullshit. Some people are fucking sheep i get that but where do you find the sheep that go to protests in face masks wearing helmets and carrying big sticks and other weapons. Me thinks you got to pay for that to happen.

PT Barnum would be proud of this circus act but i refuse to play someone else's game of divide the nation. 

They can all get fucked as far as i'm concerned

 

It's a big country. Lots of people, and yeah, I know a couple guys from college who think this is all a leebrul conspiracy

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42 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

They were definitely not locals.  They have publically called out Charlottesville as a place of protest due to the local decision top remove Lee's statue.  AIUI, their permit was initially denied and they sued in federal court under 1st amendment grounds.  Federal Judge ordered a permit Friday night for Saturday.  According to the press, the national alt.right movement is made up of some 1,600 total people. 

If that 1600 were true Alex Jones wouldn't have a radio program.  Turd, you seem to think someone, maybe Soros, is getting towns to remove old shit representing failed ideal systems, causing the  protests, so that counter protests can be staged. Do I have that right?

 

I'm sorry that republicans are getting a black eye here, maybe you could pressure the standard bearer to stop the dog whistling.

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33 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Permit app was for something like 400 people on Saturday, according to the law enforcement affidavit on that twitter feed.  

If the person who issued the permit had taken a moment to exclude weapons we might have a different story today. 

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Just now, badlatitude said:

If the person who issued the permit had taken a moment to exclude weapons we might have a different story today. 

Maybe, put, except for intimidation purposes, no one was shot! A car was effective though.

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7 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

If that 1600 were true Alex Jones wouldn't have a radio program.  Turd, you seem to think someone, maybe Soros, is getting towns to remove old shit representing failed ideal systems, causing the  protests, so that counter protests can be staged. Do I have that right?

 

I'm sorry that republicans are getting a black eye here, maybe you could pressure the standard bearer to stop the dog whistling.

I dont know what it is. All i know is that it isnt right and smells fishy as fuck to me. I dont know people that go to protests with face masks, helmets, gloves, weapons, pepper spray and what ever else they can carry. Someone is financing the protests without a doubt. Been like this for a while regardless of the adversary here comes the buses. this may be the one time i'm good with it because of who it is but at the end of the day its a big fucking game to someone

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10 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

If the person who issued the permit had taken a moment to exclude weapons we might have a different story today. 

That wasn't the only permit issued. 

http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right

Charlottesville Grants 2 Permits for Counterprotests of Unite the Right Rally

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2 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That wasn't the only permit issued. 

http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right

Charlottesville Grants 2 Permits for Counterprotests of Unite the Right Rally

Funny, better call Dabs. As usual, he didn't think these groups received permits. It fit his agenda at the time of his posting.

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5 minutes ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

That wasn't the only permit issued. 

http://www.nbc29.com/story/36099395/city-of-charlottesville-grants-two-permits-for-counterprotests-of-unite-the-right

Charlottesville Grants 2 Permits for Counterprotests of Unite the Right Rally

Lets Get It On

 

Honey dont forget the baseball bat and cattle prod on the way out the door

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2 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Wel,l that was stupid. Did they actually want a fight?

While it looks like a really shitty decision i doubt it would have made any difference whether or not the bus loads of out of town counter protesters had a permit or not

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1 minute ago, badlatitude said:

Wel,l that was stupid. Did they actually want a fight?

You have to give them EQUAL time in theory but, I have a problem with the necessity for having some Trump supporters protest at the same time..

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This could not have made Donnie happy and I wonder if Sessions is poking his finger in Trump's eye.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said on Monday that the “evil attack” in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend meets the legal definition of an act of domestic terrorism, an early declaration in an investigation after a car plowed into a crowd of protesters.

“It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute,” Mr. Sessions said on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” referring to a fatal attack on Saturday when a vehicle drove into a crowd protesting white nationalists, killing one woman and injuring others. A 20-year-old man has been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death.

“You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation toward the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack,” Mr. Sessions said, adding that terrorism and civil rights investigators were working on the case."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/domestic-terrorism-sessions.html?_r=0

 

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6 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

This could not have made Donnie happy and I wonder if Sessions is poking his finger in Trump's eye.

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said on Monday that the “evil attack” in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend meets the legal definition of an act of domestic terrorism, an early declaration in an investigation after a car plowed into a crowd of protesters.

“It does meet the definition of domestic terrorism in our statute,” Mr. Sessions said on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” referring to a fatal attack on Saturday when a vehicle drove into a crowd protesting white nationalists, killing one woman and injuring others. A 20-year-old man has been arrested and charged with second-degree murder, three counts of malicious wounding and failing to stop at the scene of a crash that resulted in a death.

“You can be sure we will charge and advance the investigation toward the most serious charges that can be brought because this is unequivocally an unacceptable evil attack,” Mr. Sessions said, adding that terrorism and civil rights investigators were working on the case."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/us/politics/domestic-terrorism-sessions.html?_r=0

 

The way it should be

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