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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Hands down the best double handed Pac Cup boat is a Moore 24.   You want to look for a boat that you can sail close to 100% all the time.   We found that we could double hand the Moore 24 to about 95% of its potential all the time.   Some of the bigger doublehanded boats like the Olsen 30 crews had to down shift earlier and were not sailing near the boats potential.   If you go with a Moore 24 and want to talk more about it in detail I have a few tips for boat set up and what worked well offshore.     

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A buddy of mine has a cherry Moore 24- with the low rise cabin house and transom cut-out- that's been in shrink-wrapped and in storage for about four years now.  If someone's interested, PM me and I will make the connection.  I believe he'd like to sail.  Not buying an AD as I don't have any stake in this other than helping a friend out

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4 hours ago, sailronin said:

Moore 24, Express 27, Olson 29, Olson 30, Santa Cruz 27

That's the right list. You could add the Hobie 33 to it as well but you said under 30 feet.

The Olson 29 and 30 may prove tough to sail to their ratings with just 2. The Moore, as Ian mentioned, is probably the easiest to sail to its rating shorthanded. The Express is a great boat for this and the SC 27 is a good choice with the lowest initial acquisition cost. The prep cost for the race will be similar for all of the listed boats with the cost for sails obviously a bit higher for the two Olsons (bigger sails). All prep costs will be dependent on the condition of whatever you end up getting. If you are planning on doing this in 2018 you need to find your boat soon.

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Seeing as this thread is full of experienced short handed folks from the proper coast, what's your opinion on the Olson 25 as a short handed boat?

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Some odd ducks to add to the list:

B-25, Un/Wilderness 30, Laser 28

In a windy year, I think the Moore is untouchable.  Most other years, I'd opt for the Express or Hobie 33.  

 

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The Olson 25 is a nice boat but as Ian said, a bit "sticky." They've had successful crossings in the SHTP. I don't know if any have entered Pac Cup but I would not be surprised at all. Other than having seen one or two I know squat about the B-25. The Wilderness is a nice vessel as is the Laser 28. I never really liked the looks of the Laser but they go well enough. Another candidate might be the Antrim 27.

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Looks like an Olson 25 just entered. Last one raced in 2008 about time for a another one to make the trip. Not one moore 24 signed up yet, double handed fleet is looking small this year. Who's still going to sign up for the adventure of a life time?

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Too many get caught up on the ideal ride. Who cares what you race on - just pick a safe ride that brings in on good order, have fun with your crew, to make it easy try to run a bowsprit/asymmetrical spin despite the small rating hit you may take. You'll make it up in mental awareness and less physical fatigue.

I have one more year till my son goes to college. I am itching to make a go of it on mine. My boat at 30 feet - i would be the sleeper. I am sure we would smoke a Moore 24 which shares the same rating and arrive in fine better condition.

 

 

 

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On 8/16/2017 at 7:06 AM, nwrig said:

Looking for the best boat under 30'

Didn't you already do it on a SC27 with Ward ;)

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Here is a thread from the wayback machine about the boats. Some comments by Jim Donovan who worked on the design whilst working in Gary Mull's office.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Black Jack said:

Too many get caught up on the ideal ride. Who cares what you race on - just pick a safe ride that brings in on good order, have fun with your crew, to make it easy try to run a bowsprit/asymmetrical spin despite the small rating hit you may take. You'll make it up in mental awareness and less physical fatigue.

I have one more year till my son goes to college. I am itching to make a go of it on mine. My boat at 30 feet - i would be the sleeper. I am sure we would smoke a Moore 24 which shares the same rating and arrive in fine better condition.

 

 

 

I agree completely, run the boat you have or have access to.   We went on a Moore in 2016 because we had it, but any boat will have fun if they have practiced some out the gate.   I also agree that asymmetric kites are great additions to this race, I don't think you need bowsprit as this well have an impact on your rating.  We had 2 ayso kites on the Moore and 2 symmetric all had their day in the sun.          

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I am currently prepping my boat for short handed racing. New keel bolts, finished galley, standing rigging, running lines as well as trick carbon fiber boom and hatches which I did myself. A collection of decent sails (none really new). I  plan on the last SSS race this year, TBF plus maybe Newport Encendas. In truth - It kinda a relief not having a current class boat. My expectation are my own. By the time The Pacific Cup comes... I should/could be ready.

Not including dock fees and my own time, I am into the boat for less than 6k 7.5k with outopilot/steering vane.  YMMV. I hope to see you and  others like me out there contemplating this way too. Now she is waiting for the second set of winches I redid to be mounted, hull paint and bit of varnish ... then she will have the look and finish ready to dance.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4386/36778554371_a4775022f2_b.jpg

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On 8/28/2017 at 2:27 PM, casc27 said:

I think there were only 6 or so Humbolt 30's produced. Good luck finding one...

Every boat has its price. You begin by finding one.36109994034_a78e5c388d_b.jpg

36773022172_289061b821_b.jpg

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  1. For me, hands down Hobie 33. Yes over 30 but sails like a 30 footer. Fastest boat in that size range for the money. Maybe 10,000_12.000. Downwind in a breeze, a dream.
  2. Olson 30 or 29,  no way. The 30 digs the bow in in 25K no matter how good you are, where the h33 just jumps up and goes 20K. A sails on existing oversize pole down low.for the first half, then decide
  3. Homebuilt 30, not fast enough-if you make it there. 
  4. Moore and SC 27, good downwind flyers, but I still like the H33 for its ability to climb over the wave in front, and you will. This is where the olsons fall out.
  5. Bring the existing 3/4 oz for when it;s windy, square back the same pole, if the sail is in decent  condition.
  6. I have a very nice simple deck layout for H33 as I almost did the race on one. "Crime du jour" pick up two female swimmers off Waddell beach!!

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Is a Synergy 1000 competitive for a double?  I have never sailed one, but the look slippery with a simple sailplan.

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54 minutes ago, poncho said:
  1. ....
  2. Olson 30 or 29,  no way. The 30 digs the bow in in 25K no matter how good you are, where the h33 just jumps up and goes 20K. A sails on existing oversize pole down low.for the first half, then decide

I have to disagree with point #2. An asym on a sprit fixes that problem pretty easily.

A4 in 25-30 to A3 in 20-25 with 1-2m swells up the inside passage of Vancouver Island

A2 in 20 knts and 2-3m swells on the outside of Vancouver island

 

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I respect your opinion. but I must disagree.I brought my Olson 30 from Seattle to SF each summer for 8 years for some breeze. AT one leeward mark we had the regretta in hand when that fuckin boat decided it needed a bath and stuck the bow thru (wind against tide-25 K) a wave/chop for a bath. Tore the spin out of the hands of the mast guys and it took us 5 min to recover. We sailed in for the coveted first out spot.

The pics you show are in the passage with no swell, easy peasy. Try it in the ocean when you take off on a wave and plow into the next one at speed. It;ll bury. Don;t get me wrong, I loved our Olson 30, but I'll take a Hobie 33 any day for a race to HIYI

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18 minutes ago, poncho said:

I respect your opinion. but I must disagree.I brought my Olson 30 from Seattle to SF each summer for 8 years for some breeze. AT one leeward mark we had the regretta in hand when that fuckin boat decided it needed a bath and stuck the bow thru (wind against tide-25 K) a wave/chop for a bath. Tore the spin out of the hands of the mast guys and it took us 5 min to recover. We sailed in for the coveted first out spot.

The pics you show are in the passage with no swell, easy peasy. Try it in the ocean when you take off on a wave and plow into the next one at speed. It;ll bury. Don;t get me wrong, I loved our Olson 30, but I'll take a Hobie 33 any day for a race to HIYI

 

second vid was in the ocean, first vid was on queen charlotte where we had big air running against a huge tide. Those waves were the largest I have ever seen on an "inland" body of water.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, poncho said:

I respect your opinion. but I must disagree.I brought my Olson 30 from Seattle to SF each summer for 8 years for some breeze. AT one leeward mark we had the regretta in hand when that fuckin boat decided it needed a bath and stuck the bow thru (wind against tide-25 K) a wave/chop for a bath. Tore the spin out of the hands of the mast guys and it took us 5 min to recover. We sailed in for the coveted first out spot.

The pics you show are in the passage with no swell, easy peasy. Try it in the ocean when you take off on a wave and plow into the next one at speed. It;ll bury. Don;t get me wrong, I loved our Olson 30, but I'll take a Hobie 33 any day for a race to HIYI

I'm not disagreeing that the Olson 30 with a symmetrical kite is a submarine. The asym makes it a whole different animal. I've had the sym up before in 25-30 knts burying the bow quasi out of control then switched to the asym and been able to crack beers. It lifts the bow up and makes it alot easier to balance the boat under the rig. You've got to experience it, its like night and day. 

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Any opinions on the Ross 930? (who am I kidding asking that?)

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1 hour ago, timber said:

Any opinions on the Ross 930? (who am I kidding asking that?)

Pretty much any Ross design!

I've always had a thing for the 780.  

Competed in three Transpacs on a Ross 40, (not short handed though!).

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There is an article in 48north magazine September 2016 issue about DHed PAC cup in Moore 24.

they are from PNW, too.

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On September 2, 2017 at 0:50 PM, Bruno said:

Has anyone ever added ring frames to a hobie?

This years transpac class winner has. They have a Facebook page. Search "Dark star racing"

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Impressive fit out, 2 rings, at shrouds and keel also? Stock rig? Nice rudder. Bottom v shiny. Like all the electrical detailing and nav station.

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Someone buy "Starbuck" on the classifieds. Black soo design and a ton of success shorthanded. I wish I was in the place to buy right now...

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2 hours ago, Sarcoma said:

Someone buy "Starbuck" on the classifieds. Black soo design and a ton of success shorthanded. I wish I was in the place to buy right now...

That boat is a rocket. Fun to watch and nearly impossible to catch.

 

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On 8/31/2017 at 2:02 PM, poncho said:
  1. Moore and SC 27, good downwind flyers, but I still like the H33 for its ability to climb over the wave in front, and you will. This is where the olsons fall out.

nothing will out-climb the wave in front like a moore, all that reserve buoyancy up high is like a bow plane. '07 coastal cup we spent all day friday from pt sur to pt conception bombing (almost a 14 kt avg for 8 hours) straight down 20-25' faces with short periods and put maybe a pint full over the bow a couple of times.

 

On 9/1/2017 at 11:26 AM, Bruno said:

Didn't the Erkelens do a turbo'ed H33? did it have a sprit?

yes, b&m had a heavily turbo'ed hobie but ran a penalty pole, not a sprit

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Jeanneau Sunfast 3200.  OK, a couple of feet over your 30' max, but an excellent shorthanded boat, winning lots in Europe.  I raced one here on SF Bay for the last 3 years.  Good boat.

Sun-Fast-3200-R2-3-2.jpg

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I know that under PHRF you have to elect either pole or sprit, is that true otherwise? Can you elect to switch during a race?

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So when you lack the height to go high aspect is the round mound the way? Pole higher than sprit could be of use in swell. I thought they were trying to keep it class legal?

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