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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Chgodave

OSR 2.04 (General Requirements)

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Is anyone aware of boats being penalized using OSR 2.04 or some variant?  I can find nothing in the case books that address any equipment that is rendered non-functional due to consumption, e.g., flare, pfd deployment, etc, or conditions encountered during the race beyond the control of the participant, e.g., lightning strikes, contact with another vessel or foreign object, etc. I don't believe the intent of the rules are to penalize boats for issues such as these.

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There's nothing more disparaging than correcting out a few seconds out of winning and learning that your competitors didn't follow the rules.

If you don't like the rules, participate in the process to change them. But when you're racing, you have to comply.

If you find yourself believing that because your intent wasn't to "cheat", that you shouldn't be penalized, take some time to think about how that mind set works when someone claims they didn't intend to t-bone you in a port-starboard collision. The rules are not and should not be about intent.

If you discover that required safety equipment and/or reserves are compromised as a result of racing, simply document that clearly in your log, dated and signed. Ideally, notify the Race Committee by email as soon as possible and again at the finish. But don't be surprised if you get penalized or disqualified.

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Moonduster, Maybe I didn't state my question clearly or you didn't read it.  I specifically asked about OSR 2.04 and whether anyone was aware of any cases involving that particular rule.  To compare a rule from OSR and RRS is comparing apples and oranges.  And all rules (and laws) have an intent.  The case book is full of examples where the grey area of rules are turned to black and white. That is why they are amended, replaced or deleted.  Because the intent of the promulgator was not being realized.  Its called unintended consequences.  See the language on the attached page.  No one was accusing anyone of cheating or complaining.  This is an academic exercise. 

CaseBook-Frontpage.pdf

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Not entirely sure where you're coming from - protest of a vessel at the end of the race because she used some equipment, rendering it non-compliant?

Getting thrown out because you used a flare?  Lost a PFD? John-buoy inflated and fell overboard?

 

As moonduster says -- log it in your race declaration.  I can't see any sane Race Committee throwing you out.

 

 

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Perhaps you should restate your question, it rambles on a bit.

All the writers have an intent, the rules do not. The rule of the case book is not to clarify intent, it's to remove ambiguity and establish precedent. The RRS and OSR are both enforced by the same bodies, comparisons are completely valid.

I am aware of use of 2.04, and also of many instances where it should have been used far more.

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what race?

not all races use the OSR rules. The last newport-bermuda race published their own safety requirement as a separate race document.., and everything in it had the status of a "rule".., just as the SI's do.

that document used some of the same language as the OSR, but wasn't entirely the same - i think it was generally simpler.

anyway - the only "consumable" that they explicitly required to be on board at the finish was the emergency drinking water. this was obviously to stop boats from planning on using their emergency water, and only bringing enough additional water so that they could save weight by planning on finishing with no water left.

in the case of emergency drinking water, certainly if you used some of it, you would need to report that to the organizers at the end of the race. If you used it because you ran out of your  "regular" water, you would probably get a penalty. if you used it because somehow your other water got contaminated.., maybe you wouldn't get penalized.

The whole idea of safety and emergency supplies is that you have them if you need them - this applies to flares, emergency water.., and everything.

the last thing the organizers want is for someone to not use a flare when it's appropriate.., because they are afraid they are going to get penalized an hour when they finish...

same with water - if a boat's water gets contaminated a day and a half from bermuda.., is it really a good idea to penalize the boat if they have a few sips of their emergency water? No, it isn't - because for sure some captain would say "no water til we get in.., i'm not taking a penalty"

anyway, with respect to the bermuda race - certianly if you use a flare, it should be logged.., but given that they do explicitly require the water to be on board at the finish.., but don't mention the flares being unused at the finish.., i think you might not have to actually report it. obviously if you are getting a trophy, and are  getting inspected, you will probably have to mention it.

 

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us7070, I'd rather not mention the race at this point.  I will share that later.  However, water is not the only "consumable".  Fuel is a consumable, as are flares, inflatable PFD components. Years ago I did have a BAD inspector try to penalize the boat for an inflatable PFD that deployed during the race.  Fortunately, we had an extra to bring the total to one per crew.  Same IDIOT tried to penalize for non compliant flares.  Said Paine Wessex were NOT SOLAS flares, despite the printing that said they met the requirements for SOLAS.  Idiot thought SOLAS was a company rather than a standard.  Was thrown out, but I still had to deal with that crap after being on the water for several days in trying conditions.  For example, OSR 3.28.3 states that, "At the start a boat shall carry sufficient fuel..."  IOW, the rules are geared for how the boat is prepped out, rather than trying to tell a crew how to utilize their resources in the conditions that they actually encounter.  I agree that organizers should want racers to make safety decisions based on seamanship and conditions present, rather than to protect their finish position.  Unfortunately, I'm afraid sometimes race officials try to "become the game" rather than run the game.  However, I digress.

I really am more concerned with penalties assessed to boats due to mechanical failure or damage caused by conditions or other vessels.  I have not been able to find such cases from 2009 to date.  I believe this supports my position.  Thanks

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Came into this discussion late and too tired right now to even check what 2.04 is about but...I have a question, peobably a stupid one, but in regards to flares what would be the odds of having to use flares during a race and then going on to finish a race? Can't really think of any scenarios for that situation  

As for other consumables like water, co2 on life jackets, extinguishers, cooking gas etc are people really gonna use up or throw away those to reduce weight. Nahhhh. 

And someone protesting if those consumables are used rendering the boat's supplies non compliant.? That's just being ridiculous-shirely. 

Mind you, we lost a large portion of water with a shower mixer tap being flicked open by falling jacket in boisterous conditions on the first night of a race. We had enough other water but we had to be a bit miserly. And I think we used some of the emergency water when the race dragged on at the finish. Would've rather lost the water through having a nice hot shower. 

And what of boats with water makers?

 

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Flares get used for collision avoidance.

Mind you, you're really missing the whole problem. No shortage of competitors leave the dock with out required safety level of consumables. That's the real problem. You're racing against yachts that have "saved" dozens of kilos for perhaps 2000 miles. It makes a difference.

 

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Not stupid at all.  Real life situation this weekend.  Just a 50 mile port to port so no special safety regulations in play.  However, a boat lost a crew member overboard for about 4 minutes.  Apparently they set off a flare.  Coast guard hailed, radio chatter and all that good stuff.  Guess I saw part of the burn through the sail.  I was helming so really wasn't looking around.  Wasn't a solas flare cuz didn't burn for long.  Me and most of the fleet had no clue until the night of the regatta party.  Don't even know what boat, but I'm assuming they continued on since they were in the middle of Lake Michigan and probably the finish was as close as any other port. 

Maybe water is in the safety regs for you salt water guys, but I guess we take it for granted in the Great Lakes.  I do know a boat that usually does well in the Mac with just a water maker.  Most boats are not that crazy.  We have one in case its a 4 day drifter and its 90 degrees, but its still in the box.  Our cheat for the Mac is to use dry ice and freeze most of our water.  So no ice is ever on board.  Anyway, I digress.  Most of the special safety regulations I reviewed stated that the requirements were in force at the beginning of the race.  As some have said here, its a good idea to log deployment of consumable gear (never was considering food and water).  I have had RCs go after me for CO2 cartridges and bobbins.  Of course it could just be me.  But I will keep you guys apprised of how this turns out.  Awaiting a decision from the appeals committee. 

 

 

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