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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Lots of stuff on line about this, but not too many specs.  There are some stats here:  https://sailuniverse.com/2017/05/discovering-the-ic37-the-new-one-design-keelboat-chosen-by-the-new-york-yacht-club/, but 37', with a 12' beam and 8' draft weighing 8,000lbs sounds like a lot of fun to sail.   

Looks to be very low freeboard, so going below deck on an offshore race could be same / worse than the Soto 40 i sailed on---- hobbit farm for sure

Hope it works, looks to be super cool boat !    Cant tell from the pics, did they line up the keelbox with the companionway so you can retract the keel for trailer ability like the Melges 32 and Farr 400  ?

Very curious about the Melges involvement here, as I'd think they're busy trying to get their Melges 40 (and other classes) up to full growth.  Never seen them manage someone else's creation...

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2 minutes ago, Swabbie said:

I understand many will be owned and paid for by the  club, and then chartered to members and also available for members to use on short term basis. Daysails. Etc. 

While true for the first 20 boats, the closing sentence suggests the consortium has broader ambitions: "Westerly Marine is anticipating a production capacity of two boats per month, which should ensure a steady supply of boats available for purchase by private owners and other clubs starting in late 2018."

 

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1 minute ago, TomTraubert said:

While true for the first 20 boats, the closing sentence suggests the consortium has broader ambitions: "Westerly Marine is anticipating a production capacity of two boats per month, which should ensure a steady supply of boats available for purchase by private owners and other clubs starting in late 2018.

" Daysails. Etc " sayes alle that?

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2 minutes ago, 1sailor said:

Very curious about the Melges involvement here, as I'd think they're busy trying to get their Melges 40 (and other classes) up to full growth.  Never seen them manage someone else's creation...

That's an interesting point.  Will this compete with the Melges 40 or one of their other projects?  And, exactly what is their role as marketing partner?  Will they be a sales channel? Marketing/PR agency?  It seems like an odd use of the Melges brand.

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Just now, Snaggletooth said:

" Daysails. Etc " sayes alle that?

The lack of a closing quote is apparently very confusing.  To me, "ensure a steady supply of boats available for purchase by private owners and other clubs starting in late 2018" means they want to sell you the SS Snazzy Snaggie.  

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2 minutes ago, TomTraubert said:

That's an interesting point.  Will this compete with the Melges 40 or one of their other projects?  And, exactly what is their role as marketing partner?  Will they be a sales channel? Marketing/PR agency?  It seems like an odd use of the Melges brand.

It's really a much different beast than the Melges 40, both in terms of cost and complexity BUT since they didn't commission the design, aren't building it, and don't use sales channels other than themselves to sell boats I was simply asking out of curiosity.   We'll know soon enough-- this thing looks cool.

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At 8000lbs it's a overbuilt club boat. Will be slower than a melges 32 around the cans.  Probably will be offshore capable but better options under 200k

I would expect some private owners to use the design but build it custom in carbon. 

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Here's the deal as I understand it:
NYYC owns the first 20 boats produced, those will be used for the Invitational Cup in 2019 and onward.

The 20 boats can be chartered for a season, with that you get: brand new sails for the season (you own them), use of the boat for the season (regatta and practice days), concierge boat management performed by the club and professionals in Newport.  You may not get the same boat for every event, but you also won't have to deal with any maintenance of the boat during the season or in the off season.  Cost for a season charter including sails is speculated to be around 50k, which certainly sounds like a lot to some of us, but may be a bargain for some owners who are tired of the hassle, or others who want to race their own boat without owning the asset (liability).  It's not affordable for everyone, but it's not supposed to be, there are other programs in Newport that service that market.

The club spent a lot of time finding a design that made sense for close one design racing around the buoys and shorter distance races, not long offshore races or passages.  They selected a builder after careful review of every possible option, not simply lowest cost.

After the first 20 are built, any boats ordered for individual ownership will be built at the pace previously described in this thread.  If no other boats are sold beyond the initial 20, then the OD class will remain the 20 original hulls unless the club purchases more in the future.  This ensures that the Invitational Cup will have a future.

 

You can hate the concept, the cost, or the design...but it doesn't really matter, because it's happening.  Just another OD class start for many events.

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49 minutes ago, RumLine said:

Here's the deal as I understand it:
NYYC owns the first 20 boats produced, those will be used for the Invitational Cup in 2019 and onward.

The 20 boats can be chartered for a season, with that you get: brand new sails for the season (you own them), use of the boat for the season (regatta and practice days), concierge boat management performed by the club and professionals in Newport.  You may not get the same boat for every event, but you also won't have to deal with any maintenance of the boat during the season or in the off season.  Cost for a season charter including sails is speculated to be around 50k, which certainly sounds like a lot to some of us, but may be a bargain for some owners who are tired of the hassle, or others who want to race their own boat without owning the asset (liability).  It's not affordable for everyone, but it's not supposed to be, there are other programs in Newport that service that market.

The club spent a lot of time finding a design that made sense for close one design racing around the buoys and shorter distance races, not long offshore races or passages.  They selected a builder after careful review of every possible option, not simply lowest cost.

After the first 20 are built, any boats ordered for individual ownership will be built at the pace previously described in this thread.  If no other boats are sold beyond the initial 20, then the OD class will remain the 20 original hulls unless the club purchases more in the future.  This ensures that the Invitational Cup will have a future.

 

You can hate the concept, the cost, or the design...but it doesn't really matter, because it's happening.  Just another OD class start for many events.

Given the NYYC's goals, its membership, its experience with the Club 42 and general trends in the sport, this program seems to be well targeted at the jaded and exhausted boat owner who has the $$ to compete in a boat of this size but not the time for the hassles of boat ownership.  The only thing missing from your description is a crew development program focused on how to help BOs insure they can have a full competent crew every race weekend in Newport.

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18 minutes ago, TomTraubert said:

Given the NYYC's goals, its membership, its experience with the Club 42 and general trends in the sport, this program seems to be well targeted at the jaded and exhausted boat owner who has the $$ to compete in a boat of this size but not the time for the hassles of boat ownership.  The only thing missing from your description is a crew development program focused on how to help BOs insure they can have a full competent crew every race weekend in Newport.

there will be quite a few good sailors who want to sail at NYYC on these boats

i don't think there is going to be a problem

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Plus the Club buying the first 20 gives it a leg up on any similarly sized wannabe OD boats.  Nothing like being able to start with fleet already formed.

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Was talking to a former TP52 owner last month whose been out of racing for almost a decade. This class is bringing him back to racing. Much less cost and time suck for the owners but still a high level of competition.

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7 minutes ago, us7070 said:

there will be quite a few good sailors who want to sail at NYYC on these boats

i don't think there is going to be a problem

The Swan 42 class did a great job of hosting a one day mini regatta for NYYC members and members of other local clubs to come out and sail the boats, add their names to the crew list.  It was targeted towards young members, which can be defined any way you want, and I know it got a few people into permanent crew positions.  If they can mimic and improve upon this format it will be a guaranteed win.

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NYYC / Harbor Court runs a lot of regattas and other events, but I am unaware of any regular fleet racing 

do they have it in their sonar's?

anyway, with these boats, there might be more interest in it

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Speaking about NYYC (Hijack) is anyone going to be in Newport this week for the J Class World Championship? I'm headed up Thursday night or early Friday. Was fortunate to score a ride on a luxury powerboat. Looking to take some photos. Where's the best place for drinks or social event with other sailors after racing?

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47 minutes ago, us7070 said:

 

NYYC / Harbor Court runs a lot of regattas and other events, but I am unaware of any regular fleet racing 

do they have it in their sonar's?

anyway, with these boats, there might be more interest in it

There's regular member fleet racing and team racing in Sonars, but that is the only series right now.

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15 hours ago, crashtestdummy said:

I would expect some private owners to use the design but build it custom in carbon. 

Why would anybody spend that much money to build a boat with a displacement different from the designed number?

16 hours ago, 1sailor said:

Cant tell from the pics, did they line up the keelbox with the companionway so you can retract the keel for trailer ability like the Melges 32 and Farr 400  ?

No. But will the boats ever get trailed anywhere? Presumably they'll race at Newport, and where else? Block Island? 

32056b1c-a56f-4bb6-80a0-11bae6a66fdd.jpg.125ad08f3df770158e89305fc506650e.jpg

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i think some people here don't understand the program...

they aren't going to be owned by individual owners.., so they will be maintained as a fleet. an "owner" will get one boat one week, and another boat the next week.., and so on...

that means they need to be easy to maintain, and easy to keep even

they also need to be pretty robust.

that argues against a very light or very high-tech construction

the boats will be used a lot for inter-club competition.., in fact that is one of the main goals of the program. many (most?) of the other clubs will not have these boats. for the regattas to be fun and competitive events.., events that people want to attend, the boats need to be relatively easy to sail by amateur skippers, and mostly amateur crew. It won't be much fun for anyone, if NYYC wins every race, because the boats are hard to figure out, and nobody else has the time in the boat that they have.

that argues against any kind of super "cutting edge" high - performance design.

so.., if you are so good that the boat is just not fast enough for you.., i guess you'll just have to stay home.

i'm sure you'll be missed though...

 

 

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19 hours ago, swangtang said:

YAWN

Why don't they just buy more of those TF10 tris that are already being built for NYYC owners? 

You seem to be missing the intention here.  NYYC has plenty of members going out and building high tech fast mono and multi hulls, probably more than any other club, that's not the market they're trying to serve.  The plan is to serve the people who don't want to or can't afford to own and maintain a racing boat.  For the 50k charter fee you're getting a professionally maintained boat, new sails, and the ability to get on the launch at the end of the day or event without any worries (how many owners can say that?).

This is a pretty nice offering for people in their 30s and 40s who may have the means to pay for this service, but lack the time to maintain their own boat.  It's a great opportunity to partner up with one or many people and see how that goes.  If executed properly it keeps people engaged and likely leads to bigger fleets in the future.

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The concept is kind of similar to the nantucket yacht club  IOD fleet - which i think has worked pretty well. those boats are not new anymore, and the challenge is to maintain them so that they are evenly matched. The great thing about IOD's for this application is that small differences in boat prep, or whatever, don't translate to significant speed differences.

the faster the boat gets.., the more likely it is that a small difference in the boats, that arises because of a maintenance issue, or whatever, will translate to a significant speed difference.

if that happens, there will be a problem.

the boats have to be perceived as absolutely equal - and the faster they are, the harder this will be to achieve initially, and the harder it will be to maintain through out the season, and the life of the boats.

people just won't show up if the boats aren't perceived as equal.

it's worth noting that in regattas that use borrowed boats, or where the boats are provided by the organizers.., RRS 62 Redress is often changed so that equipment problems are redressable.., without the necessity that the problem arise because another competitor has broken a rule of part 2.

 

 

 

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Sounds a bit like collegiate one design where competitors change boats each race. That tends to equalize the boats.

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23 hours ago, RumLine said:

Here's the deal as I understand it:
NYYC owns the first 20 boats produced, those will be used for the Invitational Cup in 2019 and onward.

The 20 boats can be chartered for a season, with that you get: brand new sails for the season (you own them), use of the boat for the season (regatta and practice days), concierge boat management performed by the club and professionals in Newport.  You may not get the same boat for every event, but you also won't have to deal with any maintenance of the boat during the season or in the off season.  Cost for a season charter including sails is speculated to be around 50k, which certainly sounds like a lot to some of us, but may be a bargain for some owners who are tired of the hassle, or others who want to race their own boat without owning the asset (liability).  It's not affordable for everyone, but it's not supposed to be, there are other programs in Newport that service that market.

The club spent a lot of time finding a design that made sense for close one design racing around the buoys and shorter distance races, not long offshore races or passages.  They selected a builder after careful review of every possible option, not simply lowest cost.

After the first 20 are built, any boats ordered for individual ownership will be built at the pace previously described in this thread.  If no other boats are sold beyond the initial 20, then the OD class will remain the 20 original hulls unless the club purchases more in the future.  This ensures that the Invitational Cup will have a future.

 

You can hate the concept, the cost, or the design...but it doesn't really matter, because it's happening.  Just another OD class start for many events.

this. The swann 42 was really kind of a CF by the end of it. And, i think cost way more than 50k for the boat/year when you factor the boat captain and general maintenance/marina fees/yard fees. Of course the cost for these boats will be in excess of 50k once you factor sails, crew, and paid crew, but i think the baseline will be lower. 

20 hours ago, Presuming Ed said:

Why would anybody spend that much money to build a boat with a displacement different from the designed number?

No. But will the boats ever get trailed anywhere? Presumably they'll race at Newport, and where else? Block Island? 

 

will possibly be availabe for sail for spring/fall events on LIS. That's a relatively easy over water delivery though. When i first heard about the design KWRW was still a possibility and that would be nice to have an easy keel option for trailer... but thats sort of mute now. 

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1 hour ago, RumLine said:

You seem to be missing the intention here.  NYYC has plenty of members going out and building high tech fast mono and multi hulls, probably more than any other club, that's not the market they're trying to serve.  The plan is to serve the people who don't want to or can't afford to own and maintain a racing boat.  For the 50k charter fee you're getting a professionally maintained boat, new sails, and the ability to get on the launch at the end of the day or event without any worries (how many owners can say that?).

This is a pretty nice offering for people in their 30s and 40s who may have the means to pay for this service, but lack the time to maintain their own boat.  It's a great opportunity to partner up with one or many people and see how that goes.  If executed properly it keeps people engaged and likely leads to bigger fleets in the future.

NYYC ought to be applauded (loudly) for its innovation.

This initiative may not work but it is calculated to address many of the issues that have caused boat owners to bow out of racing. And it seems to be better than anything being tried by other clubs/organizations.

It will be interesting to see if the interests of NYYC and its partners (mills, North, Melges, Westerly Marine. etc.) diverge and how the conflict is managed.  The partners will want to see a lot more than 20 hulls, including privately owned boats.  That could lead to variations (e.g., hull fairing, rigging)  that will test notions of absolute equality, not necessarily for the NYYC Invitational, but for other regattas.    But that's both down the road and, ultimately, a high-class problem.

  

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I like this concept.  How does this idea fit for smaller clubs?  What other clubs out there have decided that "THIS" is our club boat that we  are going to sail? 

 

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17 minutes ago, grasshopper said:

I like this concept.  How does this idea fit for smaller clubs?  What other clubs out there have decided that "THIS" is our club boat that we  are going to sail? 

 

at least a dozen clubs on long island sound have club-owned fleets of Ideal 18's

the boats get used a lot for inter-club team racing, for adult lean-to-sail, some fleet racing, and general day sailing

the boats are not really anybody's idea of an exciting boat to race, but they are more or less one-design and i have had fun racing them.

typically club members pay a small additional fee ( a few hundred $ per year)  to be a part of the program.

these clubs have money, and many of the members are also members of NYYC

nevertheless, i don't see the clubs stepping up to club-owned boats like the NYYC boat - they would need to have 5 or 10 of them just to make decent racing possible.

the Nantucket IOD fleet that i mentioned above is a bit different - if i understand correctly - the boats are not owned by the club.., but by a syndicate of members who are privately responsible for all the expenses. 

maybe something like the J/70 would make a good club-owned boat - much less money to get a fleet of them

 

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1 hour ago, us7070 said:

at least a dozen clubs on long island sound have club-owned fleets of Ideal 18's

the boats get used a lot for inter-club team racing, for adult lean-to-sail, some fleet racing, and general day sailing

the boats are not really anybody's idea of an exciting boat to race, but they are more or less one-design and i have had fun racing them.

typically club members pay a small additional fee ( a few hundred $ per year)  to be a part of the program.

these clubs have money, and many of the members are also members of NYYC

nevertheless, i don't see the clubs stepping up to club-owned boats like the NYYC boat - they would need to have 5 or 10 of them just to make decent racing possible.

the Nantucket IOD fleet that i mentioned above is a bit different - if i understand correctly - the boats are not owned by the club.., but by a syndicate of members who are privately responsible for all the expenses. 

maybe something like the J/70 would make a good club-owned boat - much less money to get a fleet of them

 

It's really just about finding a club boat that meets your interest and level of resources.  The Ideal 18 worked in Long Island Sound as a club tub, but I think you could have a club owned fleet available for member charter that copies the IC37 set up.  J/70s would work for clubs with a larger budget, but older One Design fleets might be the best opportunity for clubs with a more modest budget.  Harbor 20s, J/80s, Lightnings, J/22s, Catalinas, etc. all would make for prime targets.  Figure out how to buy a fleet, make sure you rig them all evenly, figure out how the sail program should work and go sailing.  You need staff or volunteers to maintain the boats, space to store the boats in all seasons, and extra parts and what not.  It may not be palatable for members to take on this capital expense if it only serves a portion of the club, on the other hand it's also a fantastic marketing tool to grow you club.

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55 minutes ago, Swabbie said:

The NYYC one design fleet build cost is being absorbed by the club without any member assessment. Im not sure many cubs could pull that off even with J 70s 

J80s would be a nice step up from I18s 

Absorbed or financed?  One would assume that a portion of the $50K per year is to pay for the boat even though NYYC will front the cost.  That doesn't diminish your point -- few other clubs have the capital to put up ~$4-5 million to build 20 boats but I wouldn't assume NYYC doesn't expect to recoup that cost over time.

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I don't think a smaller club could afford to foot the bill for a fleet of boats.  But as a membership, deciding we are going to make "choice of boat" our boat and everyone is going to buy it.

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do we know the cost of these?

$450K ready to race, with sails, electronics, and so on?

so, unless money has been donated in one way or another, a charterer would have to cover the finance/opportunity cost for the boats, as well as the annual operating and maintenance costs.

at 5% that's $22,500 for the money.., and using the 10% "rule" (which i think isn't enough for a race boat with expensive "consumables" like sails) it's another $45K making $67.5K

now, that doesn't include the depreciation on the boat itself.., which is usually a lot in the beginning, decreasing over time. but in this case you might argue that the "value" of the boat over time is dependent on how much members are willing to pay to be a part of the chartering group, which will in turn depend on how successful the racing program is, so it's hard to know...

anyway, assuming the membership at large is not paying anything, and unless there is some sort of "angel".., i don't see a a whole-boat charter being under$50K/year

that's still a very good deal though

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46 minutes ago, us7070 said:

do we know the cost of these?

$450K ready to race, with sails, electronics, and so on?

so, unless money has been donated in one way or another, a charterer would have to cover the finance/opportunity cost for the boats, as well as the annual operating and maintenance costs.

at 5% that's $22,500 for the money.., and using the 10% "rule" (which i think isn't enough for a race boat with expensive "consumables" like sails) it's another $45K making $67.5K

now, that doesn't include the depreciation on the boat itself.., which is usually a lot in the beginning, decreasing over time. but in this case you might argue that the "value" of the boat over time is dependent on how much members are willing to pay to be a part of the chartering group, which will in turn depend on how successful the racing program is, so it's hard to know...

anyway, assuming the membership at large is not paying anything, and unless there is some sort of "angel".., i don't see a a whole-boat charter being under$50K/year

that's still a very good deal though

Build was to be under 200k.  Sail inventory is very limited ie 1 main, 1 jib and 1 kite.  B&G triton package and your sailing these boats under 250k?   

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17 minutes ago, A-NU-START said:

Secret official word is - closer to 100K a year. Bring your own sails. 

i have a hard time imagining that the membership at large are interested in subsidizing the cost of toys for the few members that join the charter pool - as was suggested above...

 

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Just now, crashtestdummy said:

Build was to be under 200k.  Sail inventory is very limited ie 1 main, 1 jib and 1 kite.  B&G triton package and your sailing these boats under 250k?   

if they can get a 37ft boat racing for $250K that's pretty good

if true, it would cut my number above nearly in half.., but you would still need to add something for depreciation

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does anyone know if they are going to keep them on moorings in front of harbor court - that would be nice.

they would look great out there, and would be really convenient

dry-sailing them would be a pretty big hassle

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1 hour ago, us7070 said:

does anyone know if they are going to keep them on moorings in front of harbor court - that would be nice.

they would look great out there, and would be really convenient

dry-sailing them would be a pretty big hassle

Pretty sure they're going to be dry sailed and possibly stored at the Shipyard. I thought I'd heard a rumor that they were getting involved at some level.

This is a huge step up from the Swan 42 Class and for the generous owners who have seen their boats depreciate very rapidly over the last 4-5 years. A 20 boat fleet of evenly matched 37' OD boats is going to be a fucking blast! Knowing you don't have to deal with paying a captain and throwing money down the toilet on a slow heavy boat anymore has got to be appealing. Hell, it'd be fun to even split the fee with 10 8 buddies and give it a go...

Hopefully it takes off beyond NYYC. OD seems to be making a pretty huge resurgence which IMO is fantastic. 

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24 minutes ago, quezal said:

Dry sailed and will be done at NEB 

You sure NEB? Who's going to motor 20 boats for an hour each way every week to get to Newport? Makes a lot of sense to store them there in the winter. Logistical nightmare to pay 20 people to get them to Newport and back for regular racing though...

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20 minutes ago, Murphness said:

You sure NEB? Who's going to motor 20 boats for an hour each way every week to get to Newport? Makes a lot of sense to store them there in the winter. Logistical nightmare to pay 20 people to get them to Newport and back for regular racing though...

Maybe based at NEB and in the water at Harbor Court for regattas.  Space in NPT harbor is at a premium.

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15 minutes ago, sailman said:

Maybe based at NEB and in the water at Harbor Court for regattas.  Space in NPT harbor is at a premium.

Still sounds like a logistical nightmare...

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56 minutes ago, Murphness said:

Still sounds like a logistical nightmare...

i agree.., and anyway, they should not only be thinking about regattas.., but also racing them on a regular schedule - every weekend or something.

 

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35 minutes ago, Swabbie said:

Yeah, sounds like they haven't thought this through at all.  Maybe a couple of you  active poster guys should join NYYC and you can join a committee  and help them fix it!  You've already nailed down the build cost,  amortization schedule, usage. and dockage all in one thread! 

 

there's nothing wrong with a little speculation - nobody is forcing you to read it

if it keeps us entertained - what is it to you?

sure - we coud be completely wrong.., we probably are.., so what?

 

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On 8/22/2017 at 11:36 AM, TomTraubert said:

 The only thing missing from your description is a crew development program focused on how to help BOs insure they can have a full competent crew every race weekend in Newport.

It's newport, there are lots of good sailors group 1 and 3 out there who can race these boats.  

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On 23.8.2017 at 9:26 PM, grasshopper said:

I like this concept.  How does this idea fit for smaller clubs?  What other clubs out there have decided that "THIS" is our club boat that we  are going to sail? 

 

Our club owns 4 J/70's with new sails. They are raced a lot. But we're not a small club, at least for European standards. 

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so for $50,000 you get to charter a boat for a year (or is it one "season"?) But while you are not using it for a regatta other people get to sail the boat? Whose sails are these interim users going to use? Is the rig locked so they can't mess with it? What if a charterer wants to practice, can they reserve the use of a boat? I would rather imagine that a charterer cannot take the boat to and away regatta but can they buy more than one suit of sails? fascinating concept, I guess sort of like a timeshare, and I'd be interested to hear the details.

it seems that if you don't get to reserve the same hull for all of the regattas as then you really aren't chartering a boat, but rather chartering the sails.

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On 8/25/2017 at 1:10 PM, Parma said:

so for $50,000 you get to charter a boat for a year (or is it one "season"?) But while you are not using it for a regatta other people get to sail the boat? Whose sails are these interim users going to use? Is the rig locked so they can't mess with it? What if a charterer wants to practice, can they reserve the use of a boat? I would rather imagine that a charterer cannot take the boat to and away regatta but can they buy more than one suit of sails? fascinating concept, I guess sort of like a timeshare, and I'd be interested to hear the details.

it seems that if you don't get to reserve the same hull for all of the regattas as then you really aren't chartering a boat, but rather chartering the sails.

You own the sails (and keep them after the season is over), you charter the rights to a boat in the fleet for the season, and I would imagine there will be some protocol for practice days and reservations.  Not sure how many other people will be using these boats on a regular basis, but I hope the club figures out a way to get these things on the water sailing all the time.

A lot has yet to be fully disclosed by the club, but it's going to be a cool experiment.

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On 8/25/2017 at 10:56 AM, Merit 25 said:

It's newport, there are lots of good sailors group 1 and 3 out there who can race these boats.  

Crew development and Newport don't belong in the same sentence...

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the NYYC web page about this boat mentions "corinthian" sailing a few times

so i guess one question is: what limits will be placed on group 3 sailors?

these boats won't have boat captains like the 42's did

i assume they will allow some group 3, but the owners will probably need some "regular" guys too

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Same concept has been working at Long Beach YC for 25 years with the Catalina 37s.  Without a doubt, the closest OD racing on the west coast in 30+ keel boats......and it all happens on Wednesday nights in the summer time.

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6 hours ago, us7070 said:

the NYYC web page about this boat mentions "corinthian" sailing a few times

so i guess one question is: what limits will be placed on group 3 sailors?

these boats won't have boat captains like the 42's did

i assume they will allow some group 3, but the owners will probably need some "regular" guys too

My assumption is no more than two, the rest are Cat 1

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On 2017-08-22 at 0:05 PM, Student_Driver said:

Was talking to a former TP52 owner last month whose been out of racing for almost a decade. This class is bringing him back to racing. Much less cost and time suck for the owners but still a high level of competition.

You could say the same things about 505s: only more so.

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On 2017-08-22 at 2:43 PM, us7070 said:

i think some people here don't understand the program... It won't be much fun for anyone, if NYYC wins every race, because the boats are hard to figure out, and nobody else has the time in the boat that they have.

And I think some people here don't understand NYYC's "win at any cost" attitude: witness its longstanding (pre-1987) rule-bending approach to the America's Cup. 

On 2017-08-24 at 4:23 PM, us7070 said:

[T]hey should not only be thinking about regattas, but also racing them on a regular schedule - every weekend or something.

But "the jaded and exhausted boat owners who have the $$ to compete in a boat of this size but not the time for the hassles of boat ownership" (Tom Traubert) ... people in their 30s and 40s who may have the means to pay for this service, but lack the time to maintain their own boat" (RumLine) also lack the time for regular racing. They just want to show up at a few semi-prestigious regattas: perhaps three or four times a year, tops.

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On 10/7/2017 at 0:46 PM, Svanen said:

And I think some people here don't understand NYYC's "win at any cost" attitude: witness its longstanding (pre-1987) rule-bending approach to the America's Cup. 

But "the jaded and exhausted boat owners who have the $$ to compete in a boat of this size but not the time for the hassles of boat ownership" (Tom Traubert) ... people in their 30s and 40s who may have the means to pay for this service, but lack the time to maintain their own boat" (RumLine) also lack the time for regular racing. They just want to show up at a few semi-prestigious regattas: perhaps three or four times a year, tops.

You sound a little jealous...

I don't think it's true that they lack the time to sail, I know plenty of people who find the time to sail but simply can't or won't dedicate the time it requires to properly maintain a boat of that size.  Money doesn't buy you happiness, it buys you free time.

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9 hours ago, RumLine said:

You sound a little jealous...

I don't think it's true that they lack the time to sail, I know plenty of people who find the time to sail but simply can't or won't dedicate the time it requires to properly maintain a boat of that size.  Money doesn't buy you happiness, it buys you free time.

The only point I was trying to make is that most people in their 30s or 40s who can afford to spend $50,000+ to charter a boat for a season's racing likely have high-paying, high pressure jobs that eat up most of their attention. I.e., few Wall Street types can really afford to take time off for regular weeknight or weekend racing.

While money can indeed buy free time, many find that their lifestyle expands to meet their income; and in that sense, money can easily become a trap. Doesn't have to be that way, I agree, but it is all too common in Western society.

Jealous? Maybe. Certainly not on a conscious level ... but we all lack a certain amount of insight into our own motivations etc., so who knows. It is true that I could not have afforded that sort of expense when I was in my 30s.

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