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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
P_Wop

Hurricane Harvey - watch out, Texas

296 posts in this topic

25 inches of rain in 24 hours. Friends have seen the national guard roll into town. We're wishing we more properly understood this, and picked up sand/mulch bags as we have water seepage under one door, and damaged floorboards, but if that's all we get we'll take it. So far wife and pups are ok, and that's all that matter.

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Some Bayous are 8-10' over their banks. Massive flooding. NWS says to expect 15-25" more rain. Storm is expected to drift  back over Gulf in a couple days, then go north and hit Houston directly. 

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Hobby Airport flooded, expected to be closed through Wednesday. Bush Airport also closed. Nearly all interstates have flooding. 

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prayers and fingers crossed for all.....life is hard enough....

 

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So far so good at our place on west side - part of ceiling fell down -  2x3 - same spot that has been leaking for 40 years - most of downtown is under water - terrible - first responders hand carry a man over head cause of infected foot - no doubt to diet, diabetes, and alcohol. Sitl a life is a life. Most displaced are not high tax contributors to society for services. Yet the state and the government want to cut pension contributions to first responders. Its all fucked up...

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Houston, Sunday. Several more days of rain expected.

 

image.jpg

image.jpg

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My sister reports 2 feet of water in their home in Clear Lake Shores this morning. 

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It's quite sobering to think that there's two or three days more heavy rain to come yet.  

And if he dips a toe back into the Gulf (predicted in several models) re-strengthens, and turns North again (predicted in several more) he'll be re-loaded and will hit Houston again  I'd think this may go on till near the end of the week.

Damage (at least financial, if not physical and personal) could be Katrina-scale.

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Nursing home residents trapped in waist deep water in Dickenson, Galveston County. They were later airlifted out.

 

image.jpg

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24 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Nursing home residents trapped in waist deep water in Dickenson, Galveston County. They were later airlifted out.

 

image.jpg

That is very sad to see.  Wondering why they weren't evacuated before the storm hit.  Frail/elderly are hard enough to transport even on a good day.  Likely they have also lost their medications/prescriptions etc.

Figuring many of these buildings will have to be gutted since mold will follow the flood.

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So much flooding and destruction.  I can't imagine what labor and resources are going to be required to gut all of the flood damaged residences and buildings and rebuild them correctly.  

I cannot believe all of the vehicles sitting in the streets on CNN (Dickinson, TX) that are now total write-offs, too.  These poor folks.  I hope that they have flood insurance.

Any word on how Houston YC is making out?  

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41 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

That is very sad to see.  Wondering why they weren't evacuated before the storm hit.  Frail/elderly are hard enough to transport even on a good day.  Likely they have also lost their medications/prescriptions etc.

Figuring many of these buildings will have to be gutted since mold will follow the flood.

Per CNN - Apparently owner had consulted with “authorities” in advance and they advised “sheltering in place”.

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Was in NOLA a lot in the years immediately after Katrina. Down near Venice we saw high water scum lines way high up in the trees. Heat and humidity + flood = lots of mold. 

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On 8/24/2017 at 4:35 PM, TwoLegged said:

Oh, please please please please please please please please please please :D

There we go, prima facie proof of Irish interference in 'Merican politics.

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As to why no evac given? Over 100 people died from the evac for Rita including 24 from a nursing home when their bus caught fire. Trying to get several million people out of town at one time? Nuts. When you say evac people that shouldn't leave will thus those who need to can't.  Damned if you do, damned it you don't.  We found some guys with a boat and gave them the address of the woman trapped in the attic - they were already on their way to that area (couple of miles from the church where we found them).  Lots of people trying to help, we dropped off food and clothes at the local shelter. 

Two stupid things - Trump said the relief effort is going great. uh, no, the relief people aren't even here yet. Gov. Abbott stated this was the worst storm in the history of Texas. uh, no - that would be the 1900 hurricane that killed between 6 and 18,000 people. ok, rant over. 

 

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52 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

As to why no evac given? Over 100 people died from the evac for Rita including 24 from a nursing home when their bus caught fire. Trying to get several million people out of town at one time? Nuts. When you say evac people that shouldn't leave will thus those who need to can't.  Damned if you do, damned it you don't.  We found some guys with a boat and gave them the address of the woman trapped in the attic - they were already on their way to that area (couple of miles from the church where we found them).  Lots of people trying to help, we dropped off food and clothes at the local shelter. 

Two stupid things - Trump said the relief effort is going great. uh, no, the relief people aren't even here yet. Gov. Abbott stated this was the worst storm in the history of Texas. uh, no - that would be the 1900 hurricane that killed between 6 and 18,000 people. ok, rant over. 

 

I have a couple of close friends that live in The Woodlands and Spring (North of Houston).  I advised them both to leave at 2PM on Thursday. One is sitting happy well to the north on her Dad's farm  The other is trying to figure out when they will be able to drive to the store again.  My guess is 7-10 days for the guy that stayed to get to the market.

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8 minutes ago, DryArmour said:

I have a couple of close friends that live in The Woodlands and Spring (North of Houston).  I advised them both to leave at 2PM on Thursday. One is sitting happy well to the north on her Dad's farm  The other is trying to figure out when they will be able to drive to the store again.  My guess is 7-10 days.

 

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This is the amount of water Houston is dealing with:

 

image.jpg

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Houston is getting all the attention, but for 50 miles in every direction 1,000's are suffering....massive long term flooding damage....impact on livestock ,natural animals will be horrific....

 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

This is the amount of water Houston is dealing with:

 

image.jpg

That is just severely awful.  Must be 25 feet?  More to come. Ugh.

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Just heard that Harvey has deposited roughly 11,000,000,000 gallons of water on Texas. That's almost 92 trillion pound of liquid. Amazing one weather system can keep that much weight aloft. 

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4 minutes ago, Sean said:

Just heard that Harvey has deposited roughly 11,000,000,000 gallons of water on Texas. That's almost 92 trillion pound of liquid. Amazing one weather system can keep that much weight aloft. 

It hoovers it up out of the Gulf, rotates 180° and drops it again.  Rinse and repeat.

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Odd, but we didn't get any surf from Harvey here in Orange Beach. Winds have been out of NW and must have pushed any energy headed this way back. Harvey turned up the volume to Cat 3 and 4 so late that a storm swell for us never had the chance to develope. Oh well, they took a hard licking by Harvey, I've been there myself courtesy of Hurricane Hugo in Culebra. 

   I hate to imagine what Harvey could of done to new Orleans had it gone there. Or Orange Beach for that matter. I just hope Harvey doesn't find a new lease on life once it gets back over the Gulf. And has the decency to just die a slow death well west of us. I have heard of Harvey referenced as the 'Zombie Hurricane'. 

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3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

 I hate to imagine what Harvey could of done to new Orleans had it gone there.

Wait until tomorrow. Looks like we'll see what kind of condition their pumps are in these days.

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Yes, those ageing pumps are on their last leg. Couldn't handle a simple summer system a few weeks ago. Those things have done the job for what, 150 years or something silly? And why didn't they get replaced after Katrina with all the money that supposedly went to that purpose. The remnants of Harvey could veer a bit to the east and still give NO some giref. 

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There was surf in Fl today. About waist high, glassy.

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There might have been waves like that here today on the outer bar, but it is hard to tell without anyone in the lineup to judge the size. That is a pretty clean looking wave, I'd tap it.

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As someone mentioned a few posts up Harvey is impacting people in the entire Houston region. We got a respite this afternoon with a few hours of no rain. Made several trips to deliver clothing and pet food to the local HS serving as a shelter. Hallways lined with people sitting and sleeping on the floor. It's one of the shelters that will accept people and pets. Fukin depressing. If the rain continues this will be a tragedy on a scale never before seen in the USA (ok, the 1900 Galveston storm was worse but the civic leaders did their best to keep out reporters and photographers).  I have been here for every storm since Carla in 61 as well as spending several months working in LA post Katrina - I still vividly remember going to the Astrodome to get some vaccinations required and seeing endless lines of people standing in the blazing sun for what I don't know - food? water? They were patiently waiting in humid heat for help. Help us all if this continues.  So far I am very fortunate, no flooding, still have power and just waiting to see what happens.  It's raining again..

The wet are getting wetter.

edit: I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.

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He d-range, we're still getting a lot of wind and rain here in Austin (200 miles inland) - and I have family there in Houston near Buffalo Bayou. They said they're about to let Addicks go, which they expect to flood their area. This thing is crazy, and it's expected to keep dumping until late next week. Also have friends with family in Rockport. Lots of damage but their house is still standing. Just insane.

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Smack - at the moment areas north and nw of Houston are getting hammered with at least one subdivision being evac'ed - doesn't help they are opening the floodgates either.  Buffalo Bayou is where all that Addicks water is going.  oops, see you know that. Often floods mainly affect the older poorer areas but this is shaping up to be an equal opportunity punisher. Best hopes to you and your family, and insane nails it. This is just crazy and the uncertainty is something I have never had to deal with.  The bright spot is so many people helping each other, just showing up and doing it. 

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19 hours ago, Sean said:

Sobering collection of photos, mostly Rockport. Man they got hammered. It's going to be years of recovery from this disaster.

https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2017/08/photos-the-aftermath-of-hurricane-harvey/538143/?utm_source=atlfb

 

 

IMG_4569.JPG

I feel for the people, but every time i see those woodframe houses in regions where storms happen quite frequently i think "Build cheap, build often".

The amount rain coming from this perfect storm is unbelievable. Really a worst case with the high pressure system to the North which holds Harvey in place along the coastline.

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main_900.jpg?1503846218

 

Things had to be really awful for something like this to get sunk.  Prayers heading south west for everyone impacted by this tragic storm. 

 

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18 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

That is very sad to see.  Wondering why they weren't evacuated before the storm hit.  Frail/elderly are hard enough to transport even on a good day.  Likely they have also lost their medications/prescriptions etc.

Figuring many of these buildings will have to be gutted since mold will follow the flood.

Working in Katrina shelters I met some old people and the nurse that stuffed them in her car and took them to the shelter. She could only fit so many and the rest drowned AFAIK :(

btw - the lady sitting in chest deep water and calmly doing her knitting rocks! Tough old lady no doubt :D

EDIT - not even CLOSE to being over

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at4+shtml/151943.shtml?rainqpf#contents

 

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3 hours ago, Marty6 said:

I feel for the people, but every time i see those woodframe houses in regions where storms happen quite frequently i think "Build cheap, build often".

The amount rain coming from this perfect storm is unbelievable. Really a worst case with the high pressure system to the North which holds Harvey in place along the coastline.

I did a quick search for "Houston floods history"

Building boats instead of houses would seem to make sense there.

The Japanese have earthquakes, they build to withstand (most of) them.  Seems cheaper in the long run with less loss of humans lives.

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It would also be a good idea not to build cities in low-lying coastal plains in tropical storm zones

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57 minutes ago, TwoLegged said:

It would also be a good idea not to build cities in low-lying coastal plains in tropical storm zones

And certainly not rebuild there.

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There goes Amsterdam.

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11 minutes ago, Grey Dawn said:

There goes Amsterdam.

Except that the Dutch are implementing a good 200-year plan to manage for rising sea levels, as indeed they have for the last 400 years.  Schipol airport is 15 feet below the level of the North Sea.  When did it flood last?

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53 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:
1 hour ago, TwoLegged said:

It would also be a good idea not to build cities in low-lying coastal plains in tropical storm zones

And certainly not rebuild there.

But we like it here!

And if we all left, all those dreaded stories with headlines that begin, "Florida Man..." could happen in your back yards.

In my back yard today, the creek is flowing over the powerline road that leads (usually) down to the creek.

21150196_10212109354403147_2275925514793

 

So we're getting the unfun kind of tropical weather, just not as bad as TX.

But tropical weather can be a blast. One year ago today:

 

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4 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

But tropical weather can be a blast. One year ago today

But alligators!

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5 hours ago, Marty6 said:

I feel for the people, but every time i see those woodframe houses in regions where storms happen quite frequently i think "Build cheap, build often".

My wood frame house was built in the 1930's, moved here in the 1980's and put on stilts.

Like hurricane T-Ball.

Damage from Charlie:

1. Gutter torn off one side.

2. Screen removed from enclosure on porch (but frame intact).

3. A little water blew in a defective window, landing on a towel that had been carelessly left on the floor.

That's it.

So you don't have to feel all that sorry for frame house owners. If they're built properly and don't get hit by anything large, they're fine.

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Don't forget Ted Cruz and other Texas Congress-critters voted against Sandy relief. 

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10 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

My wood frame house was built in the 1930's, moved here in the 1980's and put on stilts.

Like hurricane T-Ball.

Damage from Charlie:

1. Gutter torn off one side.

2. Screen removed from enclosure on porch (but frame intact).

3. A little water blew in a defective window, landing on a towel that had been carelessly left on the floor.

That's it.

So you don't have to feel all that sorry for frame house owners. If they're built properly and don't get hit by anything large, they're fine.

I had an Indiana home built in 1890.  Despite 125 years it retained its original slate roof.   Its basement shows no evidence of ever having more then an inch of water in it, though statistically it should have survived at least one 100 year flood.   It never required FEMA or church aid to rebuild.  Its location was chosen wisely.   Yet I sold it for a loss because people want to live where a house cannot survive, and then need charity to bail them out.   I don't feel very kindly disposed to subsidize their poor choices willingly made.   You made the smart choice to build on stilts, so you took action to protect yourself from your location.   Not enough people have done that.   The rust belt feels left behind, yet we keep being called upon to subsidize those that tell us we should abandon our homes and relocate.   

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36 minutes ago, AJ Oliver said:

Don't forget Ted Cruz and other Texas Congress-critters voted against Sandy relief. 

Although there was a reason they did that - would you care to elaborate why? 

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42 minutes ago, dfw_sailor_wannabe said:

Although there was a reason they did that - would you care to elaborate why? 

Cuz Freedom?

Or to stick it to them damn east coast liberals? Or perhaps a fear that the money would help the "other than white Americans" they so dispise??

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48 minutes ago, dfw_sailor_wannabe said:

Although there was a reason they did that - would you care to elaborate why? 

Because the republicans in Congress had a blanket policy that nothing could be funded that would increase any kind of non-military spending without reducing discretionary spending elsewhere.  And none of the congressmen from unaffected states gave enough of a shit about the east coast to go against their hard line.  

After all, government should never be seen as a functioning system of mutual support.

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41 minutes ago, Go Left said:

Because the republicans in Congress had a blanket policy that nothing could be funded that would increase any kind of non-military spending without reducing discretionary spending elsewhere.  And none of the congressmen from unaffected states gave enough of a shit about the east coast to go against their hard line.  

After all, government should never be seen as a functioning system of mutual support.

Ah ! The heresy !!

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1 hour ago, dfw_sailor_wannabe said:

Although there was a reason they did that - would you care to elaborate why? 

Why?  Do you think Comrade Skippy has the intellectual horsepower to make it beyond a headline or talking point to go into details? 

 

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Posted (edited)

"... Of the nation's 50 largest cities, 17 have areas at or below sea level. Of those, only Houston does not lie on a sea coast."

http://misunderstoodmariner.blogspot.com/2011/09/cities-beneath-sea-or-not-new-orleans.html

I wouldn't call this Nat'l Geo, D'R but it does back up what I mentioned earlier. Maybe you don't know ever lil' thang.

That goes triple fer you, Sandy.

Edited by Blue Crab

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3 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

"... Of the nation's 50 largest cities, 17 have areas at or below sea level. Of those, only Houston does not lie on a sea coast."

http://misunderstoodmariner.blogspot.com/2011/09/cities-beneath-sea-or-not-new-orleans.html

I wouldn't call this Nat'l Geo, D'R but it does back up what I mentioned earlier. Maybe you don't know ever lil' thang.

 

I wouldn't call it Natl'l Geo either.  I don't know everything but I know you are a petty and pedantic moron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Houston

Of course I have spent over 6 decades here and you are the expert.  Why is it you guys find any reference and that becomes a fukin fact?

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11 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

I wouldn't call it Natl'l Geo either.  I don't know everything but I know you are a petty and pedantic moron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Houston

Of course I have spent over 6 decades here and you are the expert.  Why is it you guys find any reference and that becomes a fukin fact?

Just telling you what I saw back in the mid-seventies. Perhaps the spot I mentioned was caused by both subsidence and the the opening of one of those many fractures. Good Texas Monthly read, That Sinking Feeling. That you can't fathom being in error says muchly about you. That you can't have a conversation without resorting to moronic references says more. I'm sure you're under a lot of stress. Good luck.

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38 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Just telling you what I saw back in the mid-seventies. Perhaps the spot I mentioned was caused by both subsidence and the the opening of one of those many fractures. Good Texas Monthly read, That Sinking Feeling. That you can't fathom being in error says muchly about you. That you can't have a conversation without resorting to moronic references says more. I'm sure you're under a lot of stress. Good luck.

You are probably thinking of the Brownwood subdivision in Baytown which was swallowed from subsidence. This was due to the refineries pumping massive amounts of groundwater.  Baytown is not Houston, most areas have since switched to water from rivers and reservoirs.  I can't help that you are stubbornly misinformed and refuse to learn anything.  When this is over I will be glad to lecture about your area since I was there once. You get insulted because that what you deserve. deal with it.

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Nope, not Baytown. I drove a cab for awhile in Houston, built a boat in Galveston, fished commercially, grad school in Austin. Both my exes live in Texas. It was more than a weekend visit. But I guess you know best.

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Well, my mother-in-law (who lives here in Austin) was visiting her brother in Houston - got there Friday just before it hit Rockport. They've been trapped in his house since then and now water's coming in from Buffalo Bayou. They just waded out through knee-deep water to find higher ground. 10"-15" more rain coming and reservoirs are over capacity. His house will probably go under in the next 24 hours. This is insane.

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21 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

Nope, not Baytown. I drove a cab for awhile in Houston, built a boat in Galveston, fished commercially, grad school in Austin. Both my exes live in Texas. It was more than a weekend visit. But I guess you know best.

geez louise. None of Houston is below sea level. I can't help that you know things that aren't true. Good night.

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Friend of mine was talking with his cousin north of Corpus. Had 2800 head of cattle. Only has two left. I think this is just the tip of that sad story. Human suffering is tremendous, but there is also going to be a lot more to it with lose of livestock. 

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15 hours ago, P_Wop said:

Except that the Dutch are implementing a good 200-year plan to manage for rising sea levels, as indeed they have for the last 400 years.  Schipol airport is 15 feet below the level of the North Sea.  When did it flood last?

Not very tropical either...

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While all the ancillary discussions may provide an interesting distraction - there are people in danger, and people who are going to lose a lot with the passing of this storm.  Mebbe we could spend a little time talking about what little bit can be done from afar to help some of these folks?   After all - most of the places affected in Houston aren't exactly beachfront mansions owned by rich fuggers that know better, but, expect someone else to cover their losses anyway. Lots of ordinary folks are going to have a tough time trying to restore their lives to some sense of normalcy over the next couple years, and I'd like to think that we're thoughtful and generous enough to expend more energy thinking about how to help than we do complaining about the governmental decisions we don't like. 

There's a place called PA that's perfect for those talks. 

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27 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Mebbe we could spend a little time talking about what little bit can be done from afar to help some of these folks?

Don't vote politicians who ignore/renounce climate change or this is going to happen more often. Oh sorry, too late, already happened..

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28 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

While all the ancillary discussions may provide an interesting distraction - there are people in danger, and people who are going to lose a lot with the passing of this storm.  Mebbe we could spend a little time talking about what little bit can be done from afar to help some of these folks?   After all - most of the places affected in Houston aren't exactly beachfront mansions owned by rich fuggers that know better, but, expect someone else to cover their losses anyway. Lots of ordinary folks are going to have a tough time trying to restore their lives to some sense of normalcy over the next couple years, and I'd like to think that we're thoughtful and generous enough to expend more energy thinking about how to help than we do complaining about the governmental decisions we don't like. 

There's a place called PA that's perfect for those talks. 

I agree, but how does one separate the charities where your dollars go mostly to the needy rather than lining the pockets of the organizations themselves?  Some of the larger well known ones give very little of each dollar where they are needed.

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A few practical lessons from the recent big storms

  • If you put the hospital power machinery etc in the basement, the hospital will lose power in a flood.  But putting it all on the roof is a pain.
  • Any public safety strategy will cost a few lives.  They will die in a flood (shelter in place) or a traffic accident (evacuate).
  • People tend to live near their jobs.  Some jobs are in the boonies and people will move back there.
  • The north helps the south in the summer; the south helps the north in winter (power company repairs).  Restores some faith in human generosity.

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23 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I agree, but how does one separate the charities where your dollars go mostly to the needy rather than lining the pockets of the organizations themselves?  Some of the larger well known ones give very little of each dollar where they are needed.

Excellent point. I seem to recall that after Katrina, there was a published analysis of the efficacy of major charities in terms of how much of their donations received went to the charitable cause, and how much was consumed by overhead.  Gimme a few, I'll see if I can find it. 

here's a couple links that may be helpful in addressing your question, Billy. 
https://www.charities.org/what-percentage-donations-go-charity

https://www.charities.org/charities  - In this one, you can query by "charity type" - disaster relief is one category. 

https://www.charitywatch.org/charitywatch-criteria-methodology  - They give the Red Cross a "B+" 

"Worst" charities - https://www.marketplace.org/2013/06/14/your-money/worst-charities-get-information-you-make-donation 

 

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Thanks Chessie!!

 

EDIT.  B+ still only give 72-74%

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Give local to Houston, Corpus, Victoria, etc., charities rather than national if you can.  

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Addicks and the other dam reported to be spilling over.

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I learned quite a while ago not to trust long range models. The effective range for larger scale systems is about 96 hours with a high level of dependability. The ECMWF model  while not totally nailing the eventual track of Harvey, did put a serious hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico way back on August 14 and refined the path as time went on. If you like to look at longer range prognostications then the ECMWF bring a peppy tropical system into Puerto Rico next Wednesday night.  The GFS is less robust and well to the north as it sees the steering currents giving the yet to be named system a door to the right on the forecast track. Bermuda perhaps. More as the tea leaves arrange.

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On 8/27/2017 at 4:51 PM, NaptimeAgain said:

That is very sad to see.  Wondering why they weren't evacuated before the storm hit.  Frail/elderly are hard enough to transport even on a good day.  Likely they have also lost their medications/prescriptions etc.

Figuring many of these buildings will have to be gutted since mold will follow the flood.

Did anyone notice the electric light on in the background?

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A levee south of Houston has failed. Also, at least one bridge has collapsed. Several reports of roads washed out. 

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I can't help but think “Don’t mess with Texas” as I watch the news. The civilian/volunteer rescue effort may very well be the largest/fastest seen. One report I’m seeing is saying that for every one professional rescue there have been 5 civilian. Boats from as far west as California and as far east as Pennsylvania, though I’m sure there are others from further. The government is saying “grab your chainsaw and help your neighbor” and PEOPLE ACTUALLY ARE. No bitching, no moaning, no crying…just getting it done. The government is doing as best they can but can’t compete with volume of compassionate people willing to risk it all to save or help someone they don’t know. It gives me some hope for this country.

 

What’s scary is this is only the beginning; the rain may be slowing but the water is still rising. For those who pray, keep praying. The numbers of flooded homes, destroyed homes, flooded cars, lost animals, lost boats, sunken ships, and lost lives that are being floated in my industry are horrific.  

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20 minutes ago, BigBlueSailor said:

I can't help but think “Don’t mess with Texas” as I watch the news. The civilian/volunteer rescue effort may very well be the largest/fastest seen. One report I’m seeing is saying that for every one professional rescue there have been 5 civilian. Boats from as far west as California and as far east as Pennsylvania, though I’m sure there are others from further. The government is saying “grab your chainsaw and help your neighbor” and PEOPLE ACTUALLY ARE. No bitching, no moaning, no crying…just getting it done. The government is doing as best they can but can’t compete with volume of compassionate people willing to risk it all to save or help someone they don’t know. It gives me some hope for this country.

 

What’s scary is this is only the beginning; the rain may be slowing but the water is still rising. For those who pray, keep praying. The numbers of flooded homes, destroyed homes, flooded cars, lost animals, lost boats, sunken ships, and lost lives that are being floated in my industry are horrific.  

“Don’t mess with Texas”:  A slogan from an old anti-littering campaign takes on another new meaning.

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Special report...

They're still concentrating on rescuing the living, not recovering bodies. But from anecdotal accounts in the report, it sounds like the death toll is going to go way up. IMO, possibly in the hundreds.

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On 8/28/2017 at 1:43 PM, P_Wop said:

Except that the Dutch are implementing a good 200-year plan to manage for rising sea levels, as indeed they have for the last 400 years.  Schipol airport is 15 feet below the level of the North Sea.  When did it flood last?

imagine that... preparing

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9 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

While all the ancillary discussions may provide an interesting distraction - there are people in danger, and people who are going to lose a lot with the passing of this storm.  Mebbe we could spend a little time talking about what little bit can be done from afar to help some of these folks?   After all - most of the places affected in Houston aren't exactly beachfront mansions owned by rich fuggers that know better, but, expect someone else to cover their losses anyway. Lots of ordinary folks are going to have a tough time trying to restore their lives to some sense of normalcy over the next couple years, and I'd like to think that we're thoughtful and generous enough to expend more energy thinking about how to help than we do complaining about the governmental decisions we don't like. 

There's a place called PA that's perfect for those talks. 

I'm a little proud of the company I work for. Brunswick (holding company for Mercury, Sea Ray, Bayliner, Protector, etc.)  bought back any available inventory from near by dealers, as well as started diverting boats straight from the factory that are of a useful size, and handing them over to the National Guard to use on rescue detail. 

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Okay, I still have family and friends in harm's way, and this is serious and scary stuff, but I can't help but laugh at this one...

The Utter Devastation Of Hurricane Harvey!

59a603ed45604_ScreenShot2017-08-29at7_08_56PM.thumb.jpg.b2d4d9091d49bf149db581f233e5a36d.jpg

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10 hours ago, smackdaddy said:

The Cajun Navy is just about the coolest thing on the planet...

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/29/us/harvey-cajun-navy/index.html

Good guys.

I saw on the TV that the government is giving them fuel for their boats so they can spend more time rescuing and less time hunting around for fuel.

Hunting around for fuel becomes a major project after a hurricane, and the ones I've been in didn't take out any refineries. We'd send every gas can in the neighborhood up to Venice every few days to keep generators running.

I'm sure it's already hard to find where the Cajun Navy needs it most. Glad to see TX officials helping the helpers.

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Dude. This thread is in SA. Take the political crap to PA. I have family and friends there in the middle of this. I could care less what you or anyone else thinks about politics.

Tom was talking about federal personnel there providing fuel. That's not politics.

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12 hours ago, hasher said:

imagine that... preparing

I think the problem here is the insane amount of precipitation, above 40 inches in some places. Not easy to prepare for that. 

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1 hour ago, jonas a said:

I think the problem here is the insane amount of precipitation, above 40 inches in some places. Not easy to prepare for that. 

They've had previous rain events. I think the problem is many decades of lightly regulated development and storm water infrastructure that dates back to the Depression. Texans don't want Gubmint telling them they can't build there, nor do they want to raise taxes to pay for unglamorous things like storm drainage. 

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

They've had previous rain events. I think the problem is many decades of lightly regulated development and storm water infrastructure that dates back to the Depression. Texans don't want Gubmint telling them they can't build there, nor do they want to raise taxes to pay for unglamorous things like storm drainage. 

Very true. When I lived in San Antonio more than 20 years ago, the rules regarding run of and drainage was the run off water was to be directed to the nearest authorized drainage system which was the city streets.  I doubt the rules have changed much if at all.  

One day I was sitting in a restaurant with some coworkers and we were watching whitewater where two streets intersected.  On our way back to our Army post, we stopped to push a car with a woman and her infant out of some high water.  The car was already floating and on it's way to a flooded ditch about 30 yards away.

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23 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Thanks Chessie!!

 

EDIT.  B+ still only give 72-74%

Being international in scope, I suspect that their overhead costs are probably rational and reasonable. Not arguing, just thinking "online" - what's the average margin for most businesses?  I'd be happy to invest in anything that was making 70% over operating costs. 

 

14 hours ago, Monkey said:

I'm a little proud of the company I work for. Brunswick (holding company for Mercury, Sea Ray, Bayliner, Protector, etc.)  bought back any available inventory from near by dealers, as well as started diverting boats straight from the factory that are of a useful size, and handing them over to the National Guard to use on rescue detail. 

That's exactly the kinda good news story I like hearing. Bro Sol and Gouv shared the story of Anheiser Busch preparing canned water for such contingencies, and then giving it away.   It's nice to be reminded of the optimism of humanity - good on your folks, Monkey! 

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When the "Kent Island Tornado" had us trapped in the neighborhood with no power, some people brewed up coffee on their propane stoves and set up free coffee and snack stands to give us all a boost. People really are mostly good and mostly willing to help :) The "Cajun Navy" has so many willing boat owners the police have called for no more to show up, they have as many as they can use!

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2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Being international in scope, I suspect that their overhead costs are probably rational and reasonable. Not arguing, just thinking "online" - what's the average margin for most businesses?  I'd be happy to invest in anything that was making 70% over operating costs. 

 

That's exactly the kinda good news story I like hearing. Bro Sol and Gouv shared the story of Anheiser Busch preparing canned water for such contingencies, and then giving it away.   It's nice to be reminded of the optimism of humanity - good on your folks, Monkey! 

Makes good business sense. Otherwise they wouldn't do it. 

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Finally got internet back - cell service is marginal and probably overloaded.  I and family in Houston and Beaumont areas all survived with no flooding. Mixed on friends, some ok and lot are flooded.  Amazed by the number of volunteers showing up everywhere, as devastating as this is (areas still getting flooded from runoff that weren't previously flooded) we will be fine.  I don't even know how many millions are affected, the Beaumont Pt Arthur area is still getting pummeled and now western LA.  Recovery will be a long time in coming and just hoping that we don't get another big storm this season - the next month is the high risk time frame and we have had big storms in October.  It looks like there will at least a couple of dry days.  I have helped my area as much as I can, would absolutely volunteer but am scheduled to leave Friday to start doing disaster relief work, won't know until then where am going.  Going to ask to come back here as other than the small island of my immediate neighborhood lots of severely flood areas. Looks like today I can actually get out of my neighborhood for the first time since Saturday. 

Hey Blue Crab - the water is draining even in those areas you think are below sea level.  Give to the Red Cross - at least here there are matching donations. 

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