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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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PBYC in Ventura ran an around Anacapa race recently, that included 2 beach cat classes, 14 boats in all.  34 miles.  It included a shorten course option and chase boats.

It looks like NOSA is adding a N2DP (14 nm) and a N2SD (70 nm) courses to the classic N2E course.  I pinged the 14 beach cats mentioned above and got some interest in one or both of these courses. Anyone else interested in this?  We are discussing adding a beach cat class.  

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Why not?, a P cat sailing as an unofficial entry was 1st to finish the n2e in 1960.

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On 8/26/2017 at 1:10 PM, Bill Gibbs said:

PBYC in Ventura ran an around Anacapa race recently, that included 2 beach cat classes, 14 boats in all.  34 miles.  It included a shorten course option and chase boats.

It looks like NOSA is adding a N2DP (14 nm) and a N2SD (70 nm) courses to the classic N2E course.  I pinged the 14 beach cats mentioned above and got some interest in one or both of these courses. Anyone else interested in this?  We are discussing adding a beach cat class.  

YES - Definitely interested. I think many F18's would like something like this. Looking for more long distance races in addition to the Ditch Run. Keep us posted.

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Glad to see growing interest in this kind of thing.

I didn't know about the N2E in a Pcat.  F18 would be similar but faster, with way better clothing and gear these days, so easier and more comfortable.

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Steve and more +1. Not a biggie. Just do not form impossible, oppressive rules as there are in the "former" Everglades Challenge.

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Sounds good to me. Then again, I'm strongly in favor of bringing back the Worrell 1000 ;)

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Organizing Authorities like NOSA, prefer classes that have Class rules, SERs (If US Sailing doesn't have one), and rating system.

Is there a Class/Organization for offshore beach cats?

Is there an SER from US Sailing for beach cats?

What rating system should offshore beach cats use?

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Class/Organization for offshore beach cats? You must be joking. We can hardly organize a trip to the bar! As best I can tell, the classes that are organized in the U.S are the Hobie 16, maybe some other Hobie racing out West, the F18 class, the A-Cats (not offshore rated, personally I wouldn't accept a request to sail from an A-cat in the open ocean on a distance course, the boats aren't fragile but they are fast, prone to flipping and singlehanded distance racing is risky), and to some extent the F16 class. The F20c's are also organized in Florida and are making inroads to the distance racing scene.

U.S Sailing does very little outside of Olympic Multihull sailing and generally isn't involved in anything offshore. A far as a SER, I would look at the requirements for the Florida 300 and the Great Texas 300 races.

Your best bet is to use SCHRS for the rating system (Portsmouth hasn't been updated in forever), personally I prefer the 2016 ratings as there is some funniness in how the F16's are rated in 2017 but that is another discussion.

Hope that helps.

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We used to sail the "Round the Coronado Island" race in the '70s (about 30-35 nm) in a P-Cat then switched to Tornado for the same race. We thought we were hot shit on the Tornado and then had D class Beowulf  pass us returning to San Diego when we were still 6 miles from the N. Island on the outbound leg, Wow, that was a fast boat.

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What is long distance for a non-foiling cat or outrigger, 60 NM? How about Keys to Havana or similar? Or, would that not be the same. not prodding, just do not know and asking.

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We did 100+ mile legs in the Tybee 500 days and they were common in the Worrell 1000. These are reaching courses generally so go fast when average speeds are in the high teens low 20's with no tacks or gybes.

Plenty of Hobie 16's etc. have done Key West to Havana. 

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I entered the Worrell 1000 a year after having raced the TwoStar transatlantic from Plymouth to Newport RI on a 35' trimaran. I think I would rate the Worrell as a tougher race that upwind across the Atlantic even on the the tiny trimaran. At least you didn't have to go to the bar or jacuzzi and tell seastories and drink with Russian Spetnaz psychos or amped up sailmakers after a long day on the trapeze like you did on the Worrell! On the TransAt it was 3 hours on and 3 hours off for three weeks and you hardly had to even talk with your mate because you wanted to get in the bunk he just got out of before it cooled off. Not that there was much to say out there...

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A thought only. I go to the bars to swill and gaze at curves. Dig the info...looks a bit too tidy for me. Might be in for Texas run, I get that far along. Just an outrigger. But fun to think of doing.

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Definitely interested in long-distance beach cat racing on west coast -- though I don't currently have a boat.  Especially something that can be done over a weekend unlike the Texas/Tybee races.  

I did 750mi for R2AK 2017 on a Nacra Inter 20, it was plenty of fun, we only stopped ashore 4 times over 7.5 days (and only once to sleep, the other stops were <3-4hr stops for weather, tide gates or water), otherwise taking shifts (mostly light airs so no need to sail two-up).  I'd be mostly worried about not enough wind in SoCal, since it's no fun dragging along in light airs...

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What you guys did on the Inter 20 this year was more than impressive, but I'm so glad that I wasn't aboard. I would have been scared shitless. I'm more inclined to self-preservation and I don't have big brass balls.

Taking off into a forecast of 50 knot winds in a log strewn area at night on a beach cat takes a "win at any cost" mentality and big brass balls. I don't have either, but I'm okay with that. I'd rather go sailing than win.  

 

 

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I sounded preachy. Sorry. 

I'm pretty sure that one fatality will kill the R2AK. The race is so much more about the experience than winning. I hope it keeps happening long into the future, but I think that seamanship should be encouraged more than winning. 

 

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Good point Russ. No need for fatalities. The big challenge is to set up qualifying races to help with that. How do you get such experience unless you are close to events such as the Florida WaterTribe thing. I'm not sure that having done the Worrell would have much bearing on the R2AK. I have messaged Pete Goss to come get involved with the R2AK and hope to hear back from him. He would be a great addition to the event. I met him on the TwoStar race and he is as tough and experienced at this sort of event as there is. He and a buddy kayaked around Tasmania recently just for laughs and grins! 

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Russ Brown, +1. Sailing, is it! (Hi-jacking thread posts aside.)

Races may formalize "mines-bigger-..." mindsets, but for some of us, racing is indeed incidental to the movement under sail alone...and I think more that most admit. Racing is and should be secondary to sailing and common sense.

The in-your-seat=pants hum of a rig under wind...I have run with OD, SORC, MORC and in all cases, once we got the rig as we wanted, the race was not a direct goal for anything, aside from the one time down-wind water balloon attacks.

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12 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

Good point Russ. No need for fatalities. The big challenge is to set up qualifying races to help with that. How do you get such experience unless you are close to events such as the Florida WaterTribe thing. I'm not sure that having done the Worrell would have much bearing on the R2AK. I have messaged Pete Goss to come get involved with the R2AK and hope to hear back from him. He would be a great addition to the event. I met him on the TwoStar race and he is as tough and experienced at this sort of event as there is. He and a buddy kayaked around Tasmania recently just for laughs and grins! 

Actually, I think that the warm water races would great practice for the R2AK because you can push as hard as you like without so much fear of dying if something goes wrong. The water here is so cold that getting your ankles wet launching a dinghy is a dreaded experience. I'd love to meet Pete Goss and you too, Rasputin. 

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Goss is always up to something and I'll try again to get in touch with him and see if he could lend some of his survival instinct and training to the R2AK. He is sort of like the Bear Gryllis of sailing. Just after he did the Single Handed Trans At on a 26' Firefly trimaran, I raced with him in  the Newport Unlimited regatta. We talked about his 20+ day race passage out of which he only slept below for a few hours which nearly led to a capsize. He took 'cat naps' on deck the rest of the trip and sitting on the boat with John Shuttleworth he pointed to each item of deck gear and told up how long you could lay down on it and sleep before it became so uncomfortable it would wake you up. That was how he rationed his sleep time!

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Sorry, to me at least, sailing is much more than racing and way much more than survival bullroar!

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Definitely Yes...I jumped on a Inter 20 with Alan Thompson for the N2E and we "rogue" raced down...had a blast...remember beating Geoff on TigerTiger...had a blast of a night out...

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"Plenty of Hobie 16's etc. have done Key West to Havana"...that was my dream after sailing my H18 from San Felipe to La Paz....this year I hope to make it on a Edel 35...

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On 9/24/2017 at 9:21 AM, Rasputin22 said:

Goss is always up to something and I'll try again to get in touch with him and see if he could lend some of his survival instinct and training to the R2AK. He is sort of like the Bear Gryllis of sailing. Just after he did the Single Handed Trans At on a 26' Firefly trimaran, I raced with him in  the Newport Unlimited regatta. We talked about his 20+ day race passage out of which he only slept below for a few hours which nearly led to a capsize. He took 'cat naps' on deck the rest of the trip and sitting on the boat with John Shuttleworth he pointed to each item of deck gear and told up how long you could lay down on it and sleep before it became so uncomfortable it would wake you up. That was how he rationed his sleep time!

Amazing guy.  This speaks to me, though, of the dangers of singlehanding vs. the increased safety of having at least one extra person for effective watch-keeping relief and "all hands on deck" action.  On "large" boats, a crew of six is a pleasure for 24/7 sailing, with two on watch for three hours, off for six.

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5 hours ago, ProaSailor said:

Amazing guy.  This speaks to me, though, of the dangers of singlehanding vs. the increased safety of having at least one extra person for effective watch-keeping relief and "all hands on deck" action.  On "large" boats, a crew of six is a pleasure for 24/7 sailing, with two on watch for three hours, off for six.

Pete Goss is also a brilliant inspirational/motivational speaker. Early in his "career" he gave an after dinner speech at a charity regatta I was involved with. Even the kitchen staff came out to listen and you could hear a pin drop in the middle of a hall full of  hundreds of well oiled sailors and their guests.

As for watch systems, I have done a fair amount of single handing and offshore racing and I have no doubt that the safest and most relaxing way to go is with a 3 hour 3 watch system, on, standby and off. Which guarantees 3 hours off in a bunk and usually meant 6 hours off.

Fatalities on R2AK, sadly, will eventually happen one day.... They nearly had 3 in the inaugural race. One guy could have died twice. R2AK is as tough as it gets. Until/if Randy Miller gets around to organising the 1000 mile version in Patagonia.......

Not in the R2AK league, but the Texel race has been around for a long time:

https://roundtexel.com/

 

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I agree that single handing is dangerous, but the R2AK is only tough if one chooses to push hard, ignore gale warnings, and sail fast through the very short nights. I think that the really scary part is the very likely possibility of hitting a log.

The Race to Alaska is a walk in the park compared to the OSTAR. The R2AK is 750 miles and there's places to park all along the way. The OSTAR is 3000 miles with nowhere to park.  Pete Goss did the OSTAR in a tiny catamaran and finished in crazy fast time.

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While some venues end up being billed as races, aren't they really races or endurance and finish sort of things?

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