• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just go sailing. Try to forget which side its canted to or it'll drive you nuts. 

 

 

You you are some type of engineer, right?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

Keel offset, or keel not plumb? 

Mast in line with keel? 

Rudder and keel in the same alignment? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like your talking out of plumb.

 have you considered that the chainplates are assymetric?

  It's only important that the keel lines up w the rudder and mast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't worry, the Coriolis effect will take care of that  ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the moore, that were built 2" wider on the port side. We line the mast up with the keel. We can find any notable difference tack to tack. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

Unless you are a champion level competitor this will not make a damn bit of difference.  Are you in the top 5 in regattas regularly? If so modify the boat. If you are not a stud then worry about other things on your boat like sail trim, tactics, and understanding current and weather patterns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And here's me wondering what discussion of your new gun in a weird caliber was doing over here rather than in GA...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is a very difficult measurement.  I would be surprised if the measurement error was smaller than 5mm.  The biggest problem is deciding what the reference is and knowing that whatever you pick as the reference is in fact worthy of being the reference.  Perhaps your keel in perfect and your reference is off 5mm.  It will drive you crazy.  I went through this because my wood mast was not straight as the opening in the cabin top was an inch off to one side.  The general advice was so align the mast with the keel.  In the end I said no more measurements.  Put the mast over the center of the mast step and center the top between the chainplates and forget about anything else. The mast guy said some Santa Cruz boats have the mast step off to the side 2 inches.  What you really need to do is decide what you are trying to accomplish and then do that without worrying about 1/4 inch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do mean the entire keel is moved 5mm over, it is twisted 5mm out of line, it doesn't go straight down, or ????
I remember measuring a Hunter 54 and finding out the cabin was 1/2" off center for some reason :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Just go sailing. Try to forget which side its canted to or it'll drive you nuts. 

 

 

You you are some type of engineer, right?

 

ditto...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My boat was 1 inch higher on the port side than the starboard side.  To put that in perspective, that is like moving 50 pounds from one side of the boat to the other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boat builder are lucky to get it to the nearest mark on a tape measure with a number, That is if they use one.

The guy that built your boat is still talking about the boat that he built that was only 5 mm off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good thing these bloody boats aren't designed to fly.  Sometimes I'm shocked they even float.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

I'm amazed an American knows what metric is..... well done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 Which chain plates?

2 How do you know your chain plates are installed evenly?

3 How big is your boat?

 

Sounds like too small of a discrepancy to be considered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Thet smackes of arrogence...... you weeney!

Well the next time you go to Home Depot, ask for metric Robertson screw driver........   :o

ok maybe not....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Keith said:
30 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

Thet smackes of arrogence...... you weeney!

Well the next time you go to Home Depot, ask for metric Robertson screw driver........   :o

ok maybe not....

Hoser.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

:lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Keith said:

Well the next time you go to Home Depot, ask for metric Robertson screw driver........   :o

ok maybe not....

I dointe go to teh Depot, do realle hardware storres carrey them to?  I'lle checke them outte.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

I dointe go to teh Depot, do realle hardware storres carrey them to?  I'lle checke them outte.

Canadian Tire will ship them to you. Make sure you order them before NAFTA is summarily cancelled by Royal Proclamation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

Canadian Tire will ship them to you. Make sure you order them before NAFTA is summarily cancelled by Royal Proclamation.

Damn, where am I going to get my metric Crescent Wrench?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

That's how much my keel is offset from true center.  I've measured it several different ways but from the chainplate to the bottom of the keel to the exact same spot, its about 5mm (< 1/4 inch) offset to starboard.  Two questions:

1.  Is that enough to matter or notice from tack to tack?

2.  Assuming Yes to #1, which side should the boat do better on?  Starboard or port?  

By placing the beer cooler to the starboard side equalibrium will be achieved.

Counterintuitive inn'it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Tempest said:

It's a good thing these bloody boats aren't designed to fly.  Sometimes I'm shocked they even float.

You can find airplanes out of rig too and by more than 5mm. We had one that would NOT fly straight and it drove me nuts. I bent the rudder trim tab until it didn't turn, but it flew slightly sideways which sucked in IMC.

(a good rigger that gets the wings lined up exactly and the control surfaces set exactly with no slack in the cables can gain you a few knots)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, silent bob said:

Damn, where am I going to get my metric Crescent Wrench?!

You can modify a standard wrench, but it takes some time to adjust. A little more complicated than recalibrating a metric hammer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of answers to the op .

1. As stated above there are generally many ways a production sailboat is asymmetric.  ( your boat could be an inch more "round" on one side than the other in any of a number of measuring stations. One side could easily be 5mm taller. ) 

 2. Assembly of molded decks to molded hulls at production plants is amazingly inconsistent. ( The deck bedding material could have been hardening on one side before the fasteners were drawn down. The deck could be off to one side. The deck could be crooked. The hull side could have sagged out or be drawn in too much. )

i could on but it would  be silly.  You took one measurement and it may or may not even hVe any significance. Are they precision Laser measurements made with an accurate machine or are Trey measurements made with a hunk of nylon twine you stretched around the hull and ten measured by pacing off the two lengths? 

Summary?? I don't give a flying fuck about this question and only answered it so I could stay awake while my dogs, who insisted on going outside at 3 am, relieved themselves. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have I missed it or do we still not know what kind of boat this whole thread is about. Are we talking about a racing dinghy or a 40 ft cruiser here? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

What is Jeff?

Your deity to worship and give praise* to.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Send praise in the form of cash or money orders only. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/30/2017 at 2:03 AM, Keith said:

I'm amazed an American knows what metric is..... well done.

Hey, I've gone fully metric.  And prefer the shit out of it to fractions and other stupid measurements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Hey, I've gone fully metric.  And prefer the shit out of it to fractions and other stupid measurements.

I figured, you would know exactly what 9 mm is for........:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/30/2017 at 6:35 AM, Overbored said:

Boat builder are lucky to get it to the nearest mark on a tape measure with a number, That is if they use one.

The guy that built your boat is still talking about the boat that he built that was only 5 mm off.

:lol:

Bloody spot on!

Try taking a few diagonal check measurements, port & Stbd in the same areas, note them down, study......and then drink!

You may feel better after that.

Cheers,

Jim B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many ten thousandths is it out of line? Have you checked it with an electron microscope? Done the quantum entanglement calculations to determine how many molecules it is off?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now