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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
A-NU-START

Irma

1,427 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The eye passed just east of my home. Which is better than if it passed by on the west side. But still darn close.

2017-09-10-9p.jpg

Water is gonna start pouring back in now.

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Transformers still blowing up. Little bit of a lull ATM. Direction seems to have some north in it. Gonna try and get some sleep. 

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Transformers still blowing up. Little bit of a lull ATM. Direction seems to have some north in it. Gonna try and get some sleep. 

Rest up for the clean up.  Good luck!

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35 minutes ago, RKoch said:

It wouldn't have occurred to me when tying up for a storm to allow for a huge water drop. 

Saw it happen before on the South Shore of L.I. in the 80's.

I tie up stern - to.  I adjusted the lin s to move the boat forward in the slip and slightly into the fairway.  This way the flood tide and north wind would (hopefully) not drive her into the dock.  Checked boat around noon and there looked like enough slack to let her hit bottom (and go further into fairway).

Patiently waiting for a break in the weather tomorrow to see if I got it right, or if I have a claim.

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Radio reporting a third crane came down...in Ft Lauderdale.

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10 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Radio reporting a third crane came down...in Ft Lauderdale.

ARG... and I thought you were going to get some sleep...

Hoping for a good outcome for you...   Rest up...

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11 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Radio reporting a third crane came down...in Ft Lauderdale.

I thought you were going to sleep!!

Darn kids, it's bad enough with the weather raising a ruckus all night, go to your room and do homework or something!!

FB- Doug

 

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Prayers and Godspeed to all in the path. Don't know what it feels like on the the ground, but looks like the Apocolypse from this armchair...

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3 minutes ago, Peanut Butter said:

Prayers and Godspeed to all in the path. Don't know what it feels like on the the ground, but looks like the Apocolypse from this armchair...

ditto. Have been through a number of but nothing over 120 or so. After Ike I met several people who rode it out on their boats in protected marinas they all said would never do it again.  It's really loud and for a long time. 

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Went through lots of typhoons living in Southeast Asia, but those seem like riding on training wheels compared to these shitstorms.

Best to all. Hope you have scotch and cigarettes to see you through...

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2 hours ago, Fiji said:

Oh, that is very rude to say "Fuck off", still angry at Fiji boy ? He just came home for lunch and says Hi to you !

And god bless you, or something like that...

I didn't sneeze

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For such a monster this thing seems to be dying or at least dramatically weakening very quickly - I've had stronger winds at my place than Kocher is reporting.

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50 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

For such a monster this thing seems to be dying or at least dramatically weakening very quickly - I've had stronger winds at my place than Kocher is reporting.

eye over land... they'll do that. can't feed on warm water anymore. been over land for a while now.

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5 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

For such a monster this thing seems to be dying or at least dramatically weakening very quickly - I've had stronger winds at my place than Kocher is reporting.

What I reported earlier was as strong as it got. The storm passed over Lakeland, about 60 miles east. By the time it got there it had weakened a lot.  Never lost power, though many did. No house damage. Fence leaning precariously in back patio. Tarp the neighbor nailed over his leaky roof is draped over my leaning fence. Couple of Palm fronds atop. Minimal mess. Have to check on a friends business as soon as curfew lifted, which I expect in morning.

from a Tampa Bay bouy:

 

image.jpg

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Still gusty outside. Just had a puff of about 40+. Another transformer blew. My street still has power...Id guess maybe 30% of St Pete has no power, maybe 1/2 of Tampa. Storm went right over sister, north of Lakeland. Haven't heard from her yet, nor from brother who's going to check on parents house in Venice.

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As of 5am, the eye is about 75 miles N of Tampa, heading NW towards Tallahassee. Wind is 75 mph...a minimum Cat1. I think by 8 am update it will be downgraded to a tropical storm.

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My guess is 3x more fatalities post Hurricane than during courtesy of electrocution via portable generators that can't support residual current/earth leakage safety devises unbeknown to the users.

The elephant in the room that never ever shows itself in official catastrophe statistics.

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7 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

My guess is 3x more fatalities post Hurricane than during courtesy of electrocution via portable generators that can't support residual current/earth leakage safety devises unbeknown to the users. The elephant in the room.

Please explain.

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18 minutes ago, elorimer said:

Please explain.

People killing themselves with generators, or accidents during cleanup. There will be some, but idk about 3x.

What I think is final band is going over St Pete now...wind gusting into the 30s. Steady rain. Overall, I doubt we got even 5"...probably 3" or so. Never had a real deluge. Just got word the curfew in St Pete will be lifted at 8am. 

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Duke Energy reports 298K without power in Pinellas Co. TECO reports 295K without in Hillsborough Co. FPL reports 109K without in Manatee Co, and 175K without in Sarasta Co.

Overall, about a million customers without power in Tampa Bay Area.  Statewide, about 6 million.

Heavy damages appear to be the Keys and Polk County east of Tampa. 

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I follow CO poisoning, and the accidents--what the ERs refer to as Sunday warriors- with chain saws, falling off ladders, and other products of what I think of as Frenchie's theory of boat maintenance (the application of excessive force through inappropriate tools by people who don't know what they are doing).

I just didn't follow the residual current/earth leakage comment.

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Me neither. GFCI outlets trip if more current is one side of the circuit than the other. It should work as well on generator power as anything else.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Still gusty outside. Just had a puff of about 40+. Another transformer blew. My street still has power...Id guess maybe 30% of St Pete has no power, maybe 1/2 of Tampa. Storm went right over sister, north of Lakeland. Haven't heard from her yet, nor from brother who's going to check on parents house in Venice.

amazing, must be because so much is underground now? In Houston or most coastal the trees wipe out the grid.  Worst part is 1+ weeks no power, no ice and stifling heat and humidity.  Generator deaths? from shock? uh, sure.  If you decided to wire into your panel and are a "hey watch this " kind of guy maybe.  If you run cords and overload it's just going to burn up your appliances.  Note - I am not an expert on anything but play one on SA.  Glad to know you are ok.  btw - flooding sucks - I didn't but am dealing with people who have, some houses water 10 days, will eventually see much worse.  The misery is worse than wind/tree damage as the entire house is fuked.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Duke Energy reports 298K without power in Pinellas Co. TECO reports 295K without in Hillsborough Co. FPL reports 109K without in Manatee Co, and 175K without in Sarasta Co.

Overall, about a million customers without power in Tampa Bay Area.  Statewide, about 6 million.

Heavy damages appear to be the Keys and Polk County east of Tampa. 

Glad to see you're up & running, and all OK

FB- Doug

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Sure was dark with no electricity and full metal shutters. There are enough avocados and carombola fruit on the ground to feed the whole neighborhood. A few fruit-laden limbs gave out and lots of small oak debris. No other damage. Doing Race committee work nowadays, so no boat to worry about. Now to eat up the ice cream before it melts.

Dave Ellis, St. Pete

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Hurricane IRMA is no more. Winds have dropped below 74mph sustained.  Hell of a ten day run for her though. Condolences to all of those affected both directly and indirectly by the storm.

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1 hour ago, elorimer said:

Please explain.

He did. Bad negative earth grounds, saltwater damaged appliances being used, tools not properly grounded or damaged used in the cleanup effort, work lights contacting water source due to being dropped or knocked over and no circuit interrupters being used. It happens frequently...

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33 minutes ago, DryArmour said:

Hurricane IRMA is no more. Winds have dropped below 74mph sustained.  Hell of a ten day run for her though. Condolences to all of those affected both directly and indirectly by the storm.

Now all we have to do, is worry about Jose, which is meandering around out there, with no clear path.

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Just now, Ajax said:

Now all we have to do, is worry about Jose, which is meandering around out there, with no clear path.

It ain't over until it is over.  Jose is indeed looking like the Loop De Loop hurricane over the next five days.

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1 hour ago, Sail4beer said:

He did. Bad negative earth grounds, saltwater damaged appliances being used, tools not properly grounded or damaged used in the cleanup effort, work lights contacting water source due to being dropped or knocked over and no circuit interrupters being used. It happens frequently...

Nope.
He said: My guess is 3x more fatalities post Hurricane than during courtesy of electrocution via portable generators that can't support residual current/earth leakage safety devises unbeknown to the users.

>>>>>>>>

I still don't get this. Can someone explain? Sure I get running a bunch of cords to things from a generator and not having any GFCI outlets involved at all. Depending on how the generator frame is grounded, that could be a mild to deadly shock hazard right there*. If you do have GFCI outlets involved, they should work.

*backwards from what you might think, the better grounded the generator is the more the shock hazard unless it has a floating output with neutral ungrounded. In that case you have other issues, but you would need to be across hot and neutral to be shocked unless at some point in your wiring path neutral is grounded somehow somewhere.

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Your last sentence is one way. GFCI outlets don't always work-I've replaced most of them on my boat and both on my homes exterior due to failure in the past 5 years.

People also try to hard wire to the main panel of their home after a flood incident and can burn their homes down...

Plus all the other dumb things people due to bypass the safety features of electrical devices like pulling ground leads out of extension cords and tools...

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3 hours ago, elorimer said:

I follow CO poisoning, and the accidents--what the ERs refer to as Sunday warriors- with chain saws, falling off ladders, and other products of what I think of as Frenchie's theory of boat maintenance (the application of excessive force through inappropriate tools by people who don't know what they are doing).

I just didn't follow the residual current/earth leakage comment.

not sure either. but when I had an electrician install a circuit to plug my genset into the house... he said be sure to shut off the main breaker so that current doesn't flow back into the grid and kill somebody repairing a line they thought was dead from this direction

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Not being an electrician, I'm just a little curious about this.  Of the 102 deaths attributed to Sandy, 49 were drownings, 19 people falling down stairs in the dark, 9 from CO poisoning, several electrocuted by stepping on downed power wires, but none by generators (so far as I could tell).

So take your typical Honda 2000, which is ungrounded by design.  If you connect it via a transfer switch, the house ground applies.  If you also ground the generator, then you have a problem with two grounds, and the GFIs will malfunction.  If you connect it by extension cords, then the ground and neutral are floating, and could be more or less than the ground.  But so long as you don't ground the generator, there isn't a complete circuit and there shouldn't be a shock hazard, yes?  If you do ground the generator, then you need a GFI at the generator because of the residual ground current from a faulty appliance.  Not talking about backfeeding the house. 

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6 minutes ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

not sure either. but when I had an electrician install a circuit to plug my genset into the house... he said be sure to shut off the main breaker so that current doesn't flow back into the grid and kill somebody repairing a line they thought was dead from this direction

I couldn't get a licensed electrician to even talk about a circuit like that, even with an interlock;  nothing but a transfer switch.

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I've heard of people taking a clothers dryer plug and hard wiring it to a generator and then plugging it into the dryer socket in a lame attempt to get juice to the whole house. Not recommended. 

Back on Tortola, here is an example of the mythical 182 degrees of positive stability.

Image may contain: tree, sky, outdoor and nature

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My home gen set is wired so I can't get it on line without turning power from the street off first.

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43 minutes ago, elorimer said:

Not being an electrician, I'm just a little curious about this.  Of the 102 deaths attributed to Sandy, 49 were drownings, 19 people falling down stairs in the dark, 9 from CO poisoning, several electrocuted by stepping on downed power wires, but none by generators (so far as I could tell).

So take your typical Honda 2000, which is ungrounded by design.  If you connect it via a transfer switch, the house ground applies.  If you also ground the generator, then you have a problem with two grounds, and the GFIs will malfunction.  If you connect it by extension cords, then the ground and neutral are floating, and could be more or less than the ground.  But so long as you don't ground the generator, there isn't a complete circuit and there shouldn't be a shock hazard, yes?  If you do ground the generator, then you need a GFI at the generator because of the residual ground current from a faulty appliance.  Not talking about backfeeding the house. 

I freaking LOVE this place. No matter what the subject there seems to be a wealth of technical knowledge. Well done people.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Perry said:

My home gen set is wired so I can't get it on line without turning power from the street off first.

That is the way it is supposed to be Bob, but unfortunately people get desperate and will try anything after a disaster. 

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8 minutes ago, Blue Crab said:

I thought Bob lived in a shack on the beach?

Hah! There are shacks, and then there are .... shacks!

FB- Doug

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5 hours ago, RKoch said:

Duke Energy reports 298K without power in Pinellas Co. TECO reports 295K without in Hillsborough Co. FPL reports 109K without in Manatee Co, and 175K without in Sarasta Co.

Overall, about a million customers without power in Tampa Bay Area.  Statewide, about 6 million.

Heavy damages appear to be the Keys and Polk County east of Tampa. 

Kocher, glad you and other Gulf Coast CA-ers are OK. We're expecting 30 knot gusts overnight. I'll probably have a tree fall on my house and loose power.

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A shack with an indoor solar heated lap pool is still a shack in the eyes of the beholder, in this case Bob! Not too shabby a place, now my fishshack on the other hand is authentic.

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41 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've heard of people taking a clothers dryer plug and hard wiring it to a generator and then plugging it into the dryer socket in a lame attempt to get juice to the whole house. Not recommended. 

Back on Tortola, here is an example of the mythical 182 degrees of positive stability.

Image may contain: tree, sky, outdoor and nature

That pic offends me. For no.reason other than  "minneapolis mn" home port. There are no ports in minneapolis, just pond sailing here. Frankly, the whole city offends me, I'm just jaded really...

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A quick word on generators:

There are a lot of wrong ways to hook them up that are dangerous to YOU. The famous redneck double-male extension cord is not called a "suicide cord" for nothing.

The WORST thing is connecting the genset without opening the master breaker. You feed power back to the pole pig transformer that works just fine both ways and people now can get killed by 4800 volts or 12,000 volts or whatever when they thought they were dealing with dead lines. Don't be a dick and kill OTHER people, if you absolutely have to screw around turn off the main breaker and lock it that way!

* around here if the linemen find your genset feeding back into the grid, I have heard they just remove the wiring to your house and leave it that way

** if the power comes back on with your genset still on the line, unless you just happen to be lucky and be almost or exactly in-phase, you will see a rather spectacular display of 10 HP fighting 10,000,000 HP and losing :o

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5 minutes ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

That pic offends me. For no.reason other than  "minneapolis mn" home port. There are no ports in minneapolis, just pond sailing here. Frankly, the whole city offends me, I'm just jaded really...

The tang offends me...

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Brane, Just read those M's as W's in that orientation and you can rest easier. I would say that the owner of this boat is way smarter than the other sailors in Minneapolis in having a well found cruising yacht in the tropics. The boat was probably hauled out for the hurricane season but he would have been smarted to have hauled in Grenada but even that is not a sure thing anymore. One of the best sailors I've ever know was from Minneapolis and is probably reading this so settle down or you will have to deal with her!

The Port of Minneapolis is the northernmost port on the Mississippi River System. Located near the convergence of the Mississippi and the Minnesota Rivers, the Port of Minneapolis is about 17 nautical miles upriver (20 kilometers or 12 miles northwest by air) of its sister city, St. Paul. Seat of Hennepin County, Minnesota, the Port of Minneapolis and St. Paul form the "Twin Cities" conurbation. The 2010 US Census reported a population of almost 382.6 thousand, and the Minneapolis-St. Paul-Bloomington metropolitan area was home to over 3.2 million.

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58 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've heard of people taking a clothers dryer plug and hard wiring it to a generator and then plugging it into the dryer socket in a lame attempt to get juice to the whole house. Not recommended. 

Back on Tortola, here is an example of the mythical 182 degrees of positive stability.

lsUvrHB.jpg

FTFY

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The eye passed by here in Gainesville just before dawn. Some trees down and power is out.

Meanwhile, back in Punta Gorda, neighbors report no damage to my homes, no trees down, and power is on.

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2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Your last sentence is one way. GFCI outlets don't always work-I've replaced most of them on my boat and both on my homes exterior due to failure in the past 5 years.

People also try to hard wire to the main panel of their home after a flood incident and can burn their homes down...

Plus all the other dumb things people due to bypass the safety features of electrical devices like pulling ground leads out of extension cords and tools...

The failure rate of GFCIs these days is staggering. Was talking to a client the other day who was moaning about how many have failed in their spanking new home. Probably because most are $8 from China rather than $30 from US or Canada, and they do seem to fail 'safe'. But still. I have noticed they don't always like the little spikes and dips that come from generator or MSW inverter power; I've lost a number of Pass-LeGrand GFCIs within a week of install due to our home's MSW inverters. Kicked repeatedly, then the 'end of service life' LED comes on and the outlet will not reset. I shipped two of them bask to PLG for testing; their tech was really interested to know what was going on, but never did hear back from them. His theory was the transient voltage/current spikes and 'ringing' that are inherent to square wave power register as current imbalance in the legs. Never could get an ArcFault breaker to work in this house, nuh uh.

The electricians who wire my kitchens have started insisting on doing all GFCI circuits as breakers at the panel, because they seem to last much longer than outlets & GFCI/AFCI callbacks were bankrupting them. Even on utility power, they are hair trigger & failure prone.

Automatic transfer switches for gensets run around $500 for a typical install.  A manual switch that prevents grid backfeeding works for most people (if your generator does not fire up automatically, you do not need an auto switch) & you can do that for a bit over $100. Most utility professionals I know treat all wires as live anyway, and they work from insulated lifts with thick rubber gloves & boots.  Backfeeding gensets are more likely to zap other homeowners or a deputy who tries to drag a wire off the wet road, believing it to be unpowered.

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Woohoo! Just heard from the yard that all boats stayed upright - including DawnTreader. I'll visit soon to asses minor damage. Whew!

(Note: For anyone who sustained damage or loss you have my true sympathy. I was convinced we were going to lose our beloved boat and have been sick about it all week. And though it might be bad taste to celebrate in the face of that, I just can't help it. And I wanted my friends here to know. I'm happy. So throw me a bone here. Now to find a way to help those in the Carib and Cuba.)

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46 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

A shack with an indoor solar heated lap pool is still a shack in the eyes of the beholder, in this case Bob! Not too shabby a place, now my fishshack on the other hand is authentic.

The Brits call it self-deprecation. It's popular with the UC's.

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10 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Woohoo! Just heard from the yard that all boats stayed upright - including DawnTreader. I'll visit soon to asses minor damage. Whew!

(Note: For anyone who sustained damage or loss you have my true sympathy. I was convinced we were going to lose our beloved boat and have been sick about it all week. And though it might be bad taste to celebrate in the face of that, I just can't help it. And I wanted my friends here to know. I'm happy. So throw me a bone here. Now to find a way to help those in the Carib and Cuba.)

That's good news Smackers. As much as I've heard, boats hauled out in the Salt Creek boatyard district in St Pete did fine, boats in wet slips and dryslips at Davis Island YC did fine. Haven't heard about others. Oh, except the Starlite Princess dinner boat broke its moorings and crashed into the Bayway Bridge.

image.jpg

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Amazing but it appears that Google Earth already has updated imagery since the storm for the VI and BVI. I just loaded it and it seems to be so since there are few boats in the anchorages and you can clearly see damage that matches photos already on the web. Here is the link for the updated stuff as a DMZ file

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmw1.google.com%2Fcrisisresponse%2F2017%2Fhurricane-irma%2F2017-hurricane-irma-updated-imagery-nl.kml&h=ATNfD_lc9Y8gSIFY-VWCXa-wHmwkiT_2jsWlj4tQsbRoFKBSQhSNPwORGgnkGQ_53RQ-XgYaiUG2JFuxyb_sC-E5uUkM-LYIA4wHNVtwnuqNBCU3Z5VdRuVNV6bwoDmRXXe--nGXj79dBLNlYakb_DARhcIwWMvEcZpFwa397VSVHa-f6DIDwKZ3zZvmdF7peva_4O5POL-05nI2-IfjlrTNDrGENHaQWdax2ZX8AlyyCKfLAMsanJp0ZuMs2hrJb_F54zSQFR-eQT71w3U_oCSM9And

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1 hour ago, Dex Sawash said:
  2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

I've heard of people taking a clothers dryer plug and hard wiring it to a generator and then plugging it into the dryer socket in a lame attempt to get juice to the whole house. Not recommended. 

Those are referred to as Suicide Cables.  Backfeeding works but having a 220V live male plug is an easy way to die. 

Code here (Yeah, I know) requires either a lock out breaker or a UL approved transfer switch to prevent backfeeding.  I really like my autostart generator and ATS for simple and safe.  Run the house off the generator for a couple of hours seasonally to load test the system and exercise the transfer switch. 

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45 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Woohoo! Just heard from the yard that all boats stayed upright - including DawnTreader. I'll visit soon to asses minor damage. Whew!

(Note: For anyone who sustained damage or loss you have my true sympathy. I was convinced we were going to lose our beloved boat and have been sick about it all week. And though it might be bad taste to celebrate in the face of that, I just can't help it. And I wanted my friends here to know. I'm happy. So throw me a bone here. Now to find a way to help those in the Carib and Cuba.)

I was happy for all the boats that I tied up for others before Sandy that made it. Only mine sank due to a bad line I used to tie the bow out to a piling. I ran out of lines at the end of the last minute before we all evacuated so don't feel bad; be glad! I saw your YouTube to the panhandle videos and it'll be an excuse to clean her with new appreciation.

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Absolutely! Thanks beer.

Still a few more vids to come from that trip. Just about to post our arrival to St. Pete. Then a couple more for the final run down to Punta Gorda and we'll be caught up.

Bahamas next.

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17 minutes ago, smackdaddy said:

Absolutely! Thanks beer.

Still a few more vids to come from that trip. Just about to post our arrival to St. Pete. Then a couple more for the final run down to Punta Gorda and we'll be caught up.

Bahamas next.

Top up your gas tank whenever possible. We're still short of gas here and it's going to be 2-3 days before most stations have gas.

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

Amazing but it appears that Google Earth already has updated imagery since the storm for the VI and BVI. I just loaded it and it seems to be so since there are few boats in the anchorages and you can clearly see damage that matches photos already on the web. Here is the link for the updated stuff as a DMZ file

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmw1.google.com%2Fcrisisresponse%2F2017%2Fhurricane-irma%2F2017-hurricane-irma-updated-imagery-nl.kml&h=ATNfD_lc9Y8gSIFY-VWCXa-wHmwkiT_2jsWlj4tQsbRoFKBSQhSNPwORGgnkGQ_53RQ-XgYaiUG2JFuxyb_sC-E5uUkM-LYIA4wHNVtwnuqNBCU3Z5VdRuVNV6bwoDmRXXe--nGXj79dBLNlYakb_DARhcIwWMvEcZpFwa397VSVHa-f6DIDwKZ3zZvmdF7peva_4O5POL-05nI2-IfjlrTNDrGENHaQWdax2ZX8AlyyCKfLAMsanJp0ZuMs2hrJb_F54zSQFR-eQT71w3U_oCSM9And

Direct url without going through FB: https://mw1.google.com/crisisresponse/2017/hurricane-irma/2017-hurricane-irma-updated-imagery-nl.kml

Not sure if it's my own limited bandwidth at the moment but haven't had much luck so far zooming in to see any detail.

You'd think there would be a link from here but I don't see one: https://www.google.org/our-work/crisis-response/

Found this: http://googlemapsmania.blogspot.com/2017/09/mapping-pictures-of-hurricane-irma.html

And this, but again, my bandwidth is too limited to evaluate:
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/StoryMapCrowdsource/index.html?appid=65f0dde429504c3cb07f0cae0f2c4be6&adbsc=social1789981&adbid=905897082417930240&adbpl=tw&adbpr=2314451911

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Still blowing 20, gusting 30. Once or twice the sun pops out...feels like a bloody spotlight after several days of heavy clouds.

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Just now, ProaSailor said:

Direct url without going through FB: https://mw1.google.com/crisisresponse/2017/hurricane-irma/2017-hurricane-irma-updated-imagery-nl.kml

Not sure if it's my own limited bandwidth at the moment but haven't had much luck so far zooming in to see any detail.

Thanks for the direct link Proa, I'm getting pretty good imagery. Have been able to find friends houses in St John still with roofs. I was skeptical at first that it was up to date since the storm but looking at Bitter End reassures me that it is. Cloud cover over much of St John makes it blurry but I bet they update again soon. I remember getting access to the aerials on St John after a previous hurricane and it tooks weeks and was publically available then. Only way I ever saw that was having Park Service friends. 

    See if this works with a direct copy from the Google Earth page zoomed into the mega yacht dockage in North Sound Virgin Gorda, what is left of it!

    No joy, I have to paste it into Imgur first to post here,

91qo5Fl.png

 

Looks just like the helo images from a couple of days ago so good for Google for getting this updates on GE so fast. Hoping St Martin will be available shortly.

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2 hours ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

That pic offends me. For no.reason other than  "minneapolis mn" home port. There are no ports in minneapolis, just pond sailing here. Frankly, the whole city offends me, I'm just jaded really...

And it's one of those friggin' Bayfield's too!

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Last I heard Brane was in Cleveland. Kinda hard to look down yer nose from there.

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This hurricane was quite a nail biter from here on the sidelines in Michigan.  In the end great news that my family evacuated Naples and Bonita Springs.  Even better that their homes had little damage.  Of course it's great news that casualties have been very light in Florida and didn't continue like they did in the Caribbean islands.

It's good that people today are talking about damage in material terms and not in terms of loss of life.  I'm bummed to share that one of my favorite watering holes in the state suffered severe damage.  Let hope that Stans gets up and running soon, but as far as I can tell all that will take is some new refrigerators, fryers, picnic tables and porta potties:

 

http://www.naplesnews.com/story/weather/hurricanes/2017/09/11/hurricane-irma-stans-goodland-has-extensive-flooding-and-wind-damage/654420001/

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2 hours ago, the_abandoned_brane said:

That pic offends me. For no.reason other than  "minneapolis mn" home port. There are no ports in minneapolis, just pond sailing here. Frankly, the whole city offends me, I'm just jaded really...

ummm.  Why is Mpls even there? Cause the St Anthony Falls were as far as ships from the gulf could go. So yes, there's a port in Mpls...

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Proa,

     Looks like the Irma imagery is already up on Google Earth but even more cloudy than St John. However I think I found a certain trimaran still of a friends upright with no other boats sitting on top of it and hope this is true. I played around with some of the editing tools in GE and tweaked contrast to get a better look. I know that there is a clouds layer in GE and have it turned off but this latest 9/11 imagery seems to have the cloud cover at the time right in the image. I can scroll back the timeline of the image but doesn't show the tri in that position. Checking that previous date is last February so the boat wasn't even hauled at that time. When I scroll or pan I see a brief unclouded image for a fraction of a second but I think it is before the latest KML data gets overlaid. You are better at that 'behind the scenes' programming stuff but at least I think there is hope for the tri. She had her mast out and hope it is OK. Got to tell the owner but give me your opinion of what I'm getting out of GE so as to not raise false hopes. 

This is a zoomed in actual location link if you want to see for yourself.    18°02'33.94" N  63°06'12.44" W

Trimaran?

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I'm worried about the deer in the keys. 

And I live now I  wisssconsun, work in minniapolis. For a couple more years anyhow. Then it's time to head south to floriduh.

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50 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Thanks for the direct link Proa, I'm getting pretty good imagery. Have been able to find friends houses in St John still with roofs. I was skeptical at first that it was up to date since the storm but looking at Bitter End reassures me that it is. Cloud cover over much of St John makes it blurry but I bet they update again soon. I remember getting access to the aerials on St John after a previous hurricane and it tooks weeks and was publically available then. Only way I ever saw that was having Park Service friends. 

    See if this works with a direct copy from the Google Earth page zoomed into the mega yacht dockage in North Sound Virgin Gorda, what is left of it!

    No joy, I have to paste it into Imgur first to post here,

91qo5Fl.png

 

Looks just like the helo images from a couple of days ago so good for Google for getting this updates on GE so fast. Hoping St Martin will be available shortly.

 

Wow-  how'd you get Google Earth to display the updated images ?  Mine still shows life down there during happier times, before IRMAGeddon

tried to update it .   Humm.

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6 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Nope.
He said: My guess is 3x more fatalities post Hurricane than during courtesy of electrocution via portable generators that can't support residual current/earth leakage safety devises unbeknown to the users.

>>>>>>>>

I still don't get this. Can someone explain? Sure I get running a bunch of cords to things from a generator and not having any GFCI outlets involved at all. Depending on how the generator frame is grounded, that could be a mild to deadly shock hazard right there*. If you do have GFCI outlets involved, they should work.

*backwards from what you might think, the better grounded the generator is the more the shock hazard unless it has a floating output with neutral ungrounded. In that case you have other issues, but you would need to be across hot and neutral to be shocked unless at some point in your wiring path neutral is grounded somehow somewhere.

 

5 hours ago, elorimer said:

Not being an electrician, I'm just a little curious about this.  Of the 102 deaths attributed to Sandy, 49 were drownings, 19 people falling down stairs in the dark, 9 from CO poisoning, several electrocuted by stepping on downed power wires, but none by generators (so far as I could tell).

So take your typical Honda 2000, which is ungrounded by design.  If you connect it via a transfer switch, the house ground applies.  If you also ground the generator, then you have a problem with two grounds, and the GFIs will malfunction.  If you connect it by extension cords, then the ground and neutral are floating, and could be more or less than the ground.  But so long as you don't ground the generator, there isn't a complete circuit and there shouldn't be a shock hazard, yes?  If you do ground the generator, then you need a GFI at the generator because of the residual ground current from a faulty appliance.  Not talking about backfeeding the house. 

Residual Current Devices/Earth Leakage Detectors/GFI's (different countrIes different names) rely on mother earth taking current through the body back to the point of supply and with that current difference they will trip. Typical portable Generators and Inverters are not grounded so these safety devices will not work however your risk is only that of the human body bridging the active and neutral. However there is no device that will protect you against that.

There are things called Residual Voltage Detectors that will trip if they detect a voltage difference >50 V AC (the human heart in trouble after 50v). These are ideal safety devices for portable generators and inverters however they are difficult to source.

Fixed Generator/Inverters such as on a boats will have the ground and neutral bonded together so residual current safety devices can work.

Here is a demonstration of residual voltage devise with a portable generator.

  

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Google Earth keeps adding islands to the Irma imagery seemingly hourly! I am back looking at St John and the BVI and just found that you can zoom in on an area of interest and then toggle off the Irma images and you see shockingly contrasting 'before and after' images. Here is Paraquita Bay which is about as crazy as it gets!

AyVduvj.png

xNntPbd.png

   I'm going to see if I can combine these in a GIF editor which should be even more effective. 

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Richard Branson is blogging and has some photos...  He is in Puerto Rico.. saying the place needs lots of help... 

No gofundme for him.. He is soliciting donations for victims in all the islands...  

 

Stand up guy.....

 

unlike the mischief clowns.

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One can imagine all those boats in Paraquita blown to the southern shore at first, followed by a migration to the north shore after the eye goes by.  Even if you survived the initial blast, dodging a fleet of cats coming back at you is impossible.

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2 hours ago, RKoch said:

Still blowing 20, gusting 30. Once or twice the sun pops out...feels like a bloody spotlight after several days of heavy clouds.

RKoch:  Any updated news on the current storm surge height warning for St. Pete?  It looks like the wind will be dying as the sun goes down and the storm keeps moving north, but the tide is coming in.  

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

Proa,

     Looks like the Irma imagery is already up on Google Earth but even more cloudy than St John. However I think I found a certain trimaran still of a friends upright with no other boats sitting on top of it and hope this is true. I played around with some of the editing tools in GE and tweaked contrast to get a better look. I know that there is a clouds layer in GE and have it turned off but this latest 9/11 imagery seems to have the cloud cover at the time right in the image. I can scroll back the timeline of the image but doesn't show the tri in that position. Checking that previous date is last February so the boat wasn't even hauled at that time. When I scroll or pan I see a brief unclouded image for a fraction of a second but I think it is before the latest KML data gets overlaid. You are better at that 'behind the scenes' programming stuff but at least I think there is hope for the tri. She had her mast out and hope it is OK. Got to tell the owner but give me your opinion of what I'm getting out of GE so as to not raise false hopes. 

This is a zoomed in actual location link if you want to see for yourself.    18°02'33.94" N  63°06'12.44" W

Trimaran?

I haven't spent much time with it but don't think I'm seeing any Irma images in Google Earth until I open that .kml file.  Here are the before and after (enhanced contrast) images for that location; the area looks devastated with missing roofs and one of the docks missing?  (to the right of the launch ramp)

st_john_before.thumb.jpg.0c66184d056ba4a56e0ecf2b6aad4997.jpgst_john_after.thumb.jpg.05e31d4b47e3c9140c637404a691197e.jpg

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2 hours ago, Blue Crab said:

Last I heard Brane was in Cleveland. Kinda hard to look down yer nose from there.

 

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11 minutes ago, ProaSailor said:

I haven't spent much time with it but don't think I'm seeing any Irma images in Google Earth until I open that .kml file.  Here are the before and after (enhanced contrast) images for that location; the area looks devastated with missing roofs and one of the docks missing?  (to the right of the launch ramp)

st_john_before.thumb.jpg.0c66184d056ba4a56e0ecf2b6aad4997.jpgst_john_after.thumb.jpg.05e31d4b47e3c9140c637404a691197e.jpg

Yes, you have to open the .kml file. I just clicked on it and it opened GE. 

Looks like a 56' trimaran though, agree? Hope it is the right one... Your second image sure looks clear, how did you filter out the cloud?

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I found a gap in the Tortola post Irma imagery on GE but look at the stark contrast in the before and after of Sopers Hole at West End! 

j7PFUSR.png

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One daughter in Charleston SC has lost power, one still has it. Heard on NPR that Jacksonville or St. Augustine had worst flooding in 150 years.

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41 minutes ago, Jah said:

RKoch:  Any updated news on the current storm surge height warning for St. Pete?  It looks like the wind will be dying as the sun goes down and the storm keeps moving north, but the tide is coming in.  

Have not checked the tide height since this morning.

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Seems Jacksonville FL is the surprise victim right now. I guess the St. John's River was a conduit right to them.

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28 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Yes, you have to open the .kml file. I just clicked on it and it opened GE. 

Looks like a 56' trimaran though, agree? Hope it is the right one... Your second image sure looks clear, how did you filter out the cloud?

Right, you can click the .kml file to open it or open it explicitly ('File | Open') after starting Google Earth.  Just remember to "Discard" the unsaved items in your "Temporary Places" folder when you close GE or the .kml data will be retained, which can get confusing.

And yes, it looks like a ~56' trimaran.  I tried a few other filters (Levels, Curves) but in the end, used only increased contrast to enhance that image and peer through the clouds.

st_john_after2.jpg.1a316b093b884576b274646ffad622fb.jpg

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Thanks Proa, I'm looking for other boats of friends now. You did good with the measuring tool and I'm happy to see the boat is not just a memory. 

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Quote

The winds have picked up significantly in the course of the last hour, we are still about five hours until we get the brunt of the storm.

Lots of footage showing up now on YouTube.

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Wind finally calming down a bit. There's still a storm surge warning 1-3' through tomorrow,  but I think they're just being cautious. Could be some River flooding. Huge number of people without power....it could take weeks. People who evacuated out of state having difficulty finding gas to get back home. 

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Glad things worked out well (considering) for you Kocher.

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Not sure we were close enough to be relevant, but generally all good in Savannah, had a wet and windy 24hrs, gusting 70 on the barrier islands. A quick ride around town shows limited tree damage, saw 5-6 big ones down. Matthew was way worse in that respect. Quite a lot of power outages, again not as bad as Matthew. The surge however coincided with a high spring tide, a few roads were inundated, and probably some but not many houses. The vibe around town was that we all very lucky to dodge a bullet, the forecast 3-4 days ago was terrifying. A number of people evacuated into areas that had it a lot worse.

 

Big thanks to all posting here, been a good source on info. My heart and donations will go out the BVI/SXM/Barbuda etc. I feel like they may get forgotten with the USA damage.

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Real disaster is unfolding in the Keys. There was apparently about 10,000 people that didn't heed the evacuation order, or didn't have transportation out. There is one highway in and out, with 42 bridges. There is a huge amount of debris on the road, and each bridge has to be checked for soundness. As of late today, first responders had only gotten past 6 bridges. National guard were choppered in to clear the runways at Marathon and Key West for C130s to land bringing medical help, supplies, and to evacuate survivors. That hasn't been completed yet. Situation is compounded by lack of access and communication with the lower keys hardest hit...Big Pine Key, Cudjoe Key, and Summerland Key. USS Abraham Lincoln is reported to be on the scene flying choppers for SAR. There appears to be survivors on Key West (it has some reasonably substantial buildings), but unknown number of survivors or deaths on the other keys. All landline ph, cell towers, power, and water is out. 

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Real disaster is unfolding in the Keys. There was apparently about 10,000 people that didn't heed the evacuation order, or didn't have transportation out. There is one highway in and out, with 42 bridges. There is a huge amount of debris on the road, and each bridge has to be checked for soundness. As of late today, first responders had only gotten past 6 bridges. National guard were choppered in to clear the runways at Marathon and Key West for C130s to land bringing medical help, supplies, and to evacuate survivors. That hasn't been completed yet. Situation is compounded by lack of access and communication with the lower keys hardest hit...Big Pine Key, Cudjoe Key, and Summerland Key. USS Abraham Lincoln is reported to be on the scene flying choppers for SAR. There appears to be survivors on Key West (it has some reasonably substantial buildings), but unknown number of survivors or deaths on the other keys. All landline ph, cell towers, power, and water is out. 

Need some ham radio ops down there.

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Real disaster is unfolding in the Keys. There was apparently about 10,000 people that didn't heed the evacuation order, or didn't have transportation out. There is one highway in and out, with 42 bridges. There is a huge amount of debris on the road, and each bridge has to be checked for soundness. As of late today, first responders had only gotten past 6 bridges. National guard were choppered in to clear the runways at Marathon and Key West for C130s to land bringing medical help, supplies, and to evacuate survivors. That hasn't been completed yet. Situation is compounded by lack of access and communication with the lower keys hardest hit...Big Pine Key, Cudjoe Key, and Summerland Key. USS Abraham Lincoln is reported to be on the scene flying choppers for SAR. There appears to be survivors on Key West (it has some reasonably substantial buildings), but unknown number of survivors or deaths on the other keys. All landline ph, cell towers, power, and water is out. 

Damn.

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3 hours ago, RKoch said:

Real disaster is unfolding in the Keys. There was apparently about 10,000 people that didn't heed the evacuation order, or didn't have transportation out. There is one highway in and out, with 42 bridges. There is a huge amount of debris on the road, and each bridge has to be checked for soundness. As of late today, first responders had only gotten past 6 bridges. National guard were choppered in to clear the runways at Marathon and Key West for C130s to land bringing medical help, supplies, and to evacuate survivors. That hasn't been completed yet. Situation is compounded by lack of access and communication with the lower keys hardest hit...Big Pine Key, Cudjoe Key, and Summerland Key. USS Abraham Lincoln is reported to be on the scene flying choppers for SAR. There appears to be survivors on Key West (it has some reasonably substantial buildings), but unknown number of survivors or deaths on the other keys. All landline ph, cell towers, power, and water is out. 

Care to quote the source ?     "There appears to be survivors on Key West", really ?

 

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