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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
A-NU-START

Irma

1,427 posts in this topic

When the storm clears I imagine you will be able to walk from one side of that cove to the other without getting your feet wet.

AA-Moorings.jpg

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Boat bailouts in Miami are completely screwing people over, saying they'll take the boat for one price, shaking hands and then hiking price and on the back of they refusing to haulout.

 

Helping a friend cope with the bs and prep his sailboat.

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NHC has it back east and possibly headed my way.

145453_5day_cone_with_line_and_wind.png

 

The models seem to be having a hard time with the east/west thing.

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 I just read that flights out of Florida the fares have doubled in the past two days     God bless American capitalism-_-

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And I thought Branson was a smart dude! I used to camp on that beach before he built the place and then toured the house and facilities shortly before it was finished. Good high location above surge but will take the brunt of the wind. Idiot not to have proper storm shelters. That tape is criminal. 

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What a difference a day makes!

    Here is your new breed of Patreon cute sailing couple showing their complete ignorance about hurricanes opting to stay on their boat in St Martin. Nice camera work and head shots of the girls while they shop in the boat boutique for chain with the storm impending. Great sunset video with calming music in the background. Stateside friend flies in hours before the shit hits the fan and proclaims that they are ready to 'rock and roll'. 

    Next morning they are holed up 15 stories up in a high rise looking in near shock and barely get off 20 seconds of the reality of their situation. Hope they make it out OK and get a grip.

 

     Really how she manages to lose the look of fear and confusion on her face the moment the camera starts filming!  The dudes, not so much...

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2 minutes ago, dacapo said:

 I just read that flights out of Florida the fares have doubled in the past two days     God bless American capitalism-_-

Miami Herald reports that the price went up 10 times...

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10 minutes ago, dacapo said:

 I just read that flights out of Florida the fares have doubled in the past two days     God bless American capitalism-_-

A friend went to order a case of bottled water from Amazon. Not only did they want $20, but 'shipping' was $1300.  Looks like they're figuring on a loophole in the price-gouging law.

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9 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

What a difference a day makes!

    Here is your new breed of Patreon cute sailing couple showing their complete ignorance about hurricanes opting to stay on their boat in St Martin. Nice camera work and head shots of the girls while they shop in the boat boutique for chain with the storm impending. Great sunset video with calming music in the background. Stateside friend flies in hours before the shit hits the fan and proclaims that they are ready to 'rock and roll'. 

    Next morning they are holed up 15 stories up in a high rise looking in near shock and barely get off 20 seconds of the reality of their situation. Hope they make it out OK and get a grip.

 

     Really how she manages to lose the look of fear and confusion on her face the moment the camera starts filming!  The dudes, not so much...

The naivete and sheer stupidity of America's youth is unbelievable.

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1 minute ago, Lono said:

The naivete and sheer stupidity of America's youth is unbelievable.

notte if you live hearre.....

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23 hours ago, RKoch said:

Neighbors across the street at the time went nuts nailing up plywood. With the storms threatening every 10-14 days, they just left the plywood up for two months straight. It was dark as a cave inside their house. 

Funny thing...we were on separate electric grids. I was on same grid as the police maintainence depot...never lost power. They were on a different grid...lost power twice, once for 4 days and second time for 10. They were running a damn generator 24/7.

It's a hard thing to do, trying to sleep while sweating with the windows open and the roar of the generators around the neighborhood, especially when you do not have one.

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6 minutes ago, Lono said:

The naivete and sheer stupidity of America's youth is unbelievable.

I think Patreon is a synonym for naive and dumb.

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4 minutes ago, Snaggletooth said:

notte if you live hearre.....

Snags you have three misspelled words in that post how did that happen?

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18 minutes ago, h20man said:

Miami Herald reports that the price went up 10 times...

No doubt, and heaven knows I am not defending the airlines but its not really 10 times...

Probably only 1st class left and a 1st class ticket short notice to NY is probably 2 grand or so at the best of times. So with all flights likely overbooked who knows. Its pretty unlikely you are going to find the deep discounted fares you are used to in this type of situation. Load em all in a car and go.

Now 1300 for shipping water thats a little extreme ! of course Prime looks pretty good right now;-)

 

 

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3 minutes ago, vibroman said:

No doubt, and heaven knows I am not defending the airlines but its not really 10 times...

Probably only 1st class left and a 1st class ticket short notice to NY is probably 2 grand or so at the best of times. So with all flights likely overbooked who knows. Its pretty unlikely you are going to find the deep discounted fares you are used to in this type of situation. Load em all in a car and go.

Now 1300 for shipping water thats a little extreme ! of course Prime looks pretty good right now;-)

 

 

Price gouging is a natural reaction to a sudden and extreme spike in demand.

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20 minutes ago, Lono said:

The naivete and sheer stupidity of America's youth is unbelievable.

Jesus fucking christ, they're a bunch of fools.

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15 minutes ago, RKoch said:

I think Patreon is a synonym for naive and dumb.

Though Patreon-supported Tropical Tidbits is an excellent exception to this rule.

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1 minute ago, jewingiv said:

Though Patreon-supported Tropical Tidbits is an excellent exception to this rule.

Big difference between an informational website and a bunch of trustafarians supplementing their monthly checks with dumb viewers donations in hopes of seeing some nipple.

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17 minutes ago, Blitz said:

Snags you have three misspelled words in that post how did that happen?

Can you imagine how hard he has to work against AutoCorrect?

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1 minute ago, smackdaddy said:

Can you imagine how hard he has to work against AutoCorrect?

I think it must take Snags 15 minutes to type out his 6-word posts.

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3 minutes ago, TPG said:

Big difference between an informational website and a bunch of trustafarians supplementing their monthly checks with dumb viewers donations in hopes of seeing some nipple.

^This.  Most of the cruising vlogs are really bad. 

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2 minutes ago, RKoch said:

^This.  Most of the cruising vlogs are really bad. 

Most of these sailing vlogs:

 

 

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1 hour ago, Morgan Crewed said:

Hope that tape on the windows is reinforced with string.

Irma Necker Is.JPG

Fake window in Bunker ??

why don't people make concreate submarines as shelters good for 3-7 days underwater

with multiple snorkel exists should one be blocked by whatever ???

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The eye just passed directly over the BVI's.

 

Heaven help them all.

 

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41 minutes ago, RKoch said:

A friend went to order a case of bottled water from Amazon. Not only did they want $20, but 'shipping' was $1300.  Looks like they're figuring on a loophole in the price-gouging law.

...hmmm,, and what will yer friends use as an address?  :mellow:

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Wife was supposed to leave for Florida tonight with a return on Saturday night. No problem with cancelling plane tickets. Rental car company wanted to charge a cancellation fee. Guess they don't mind having their cars out and in the line of danger. 

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Cruz Bay USVI, as of 1230. A couple boats anchored out reported dismasted, but really can't see much.

 

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15 minutes ago, TPG said:

Big difference between an informational website and a bunch of trustafarians supplementing their monthly checks with dumb viewers donations in hopes of seeing some nipple.

Absolutely.  And a very good informational website at that.

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3 minutes ago, couchsurfer said:

...hmmm,, and what will yer friends use as an address?  :mellow:

He's in Tampa. Delivery on the 8th, so it wouldn't have been a problem. He was just trying to avoid going from store to store, thought this might be easier.  He passed, of course. I guess Amazon is just hoping a couple of desperate people overlook the 'shipping' price when they order.

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first group of vids I've seen.  Impressive.

 

also....  a palm tree is a tough bitch

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

St Maartin

 

image.jpg

Damn.

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25 minutes ago, Gangbusters said:

Wife was supposed to leave for Florida tonight with a return on Saturday night. No problem with cancelling plane tickets. Rental car company wanted to charge a cancellation fee. Guess they don't mind having their cars out and in the line of danger. 

Tell your wife to call her credit card company and claim a chargeback against the car rental company. I'm in the industry and we get special bulletins from the credit card schemes during all major happenings that makes it difficult for the card holders - typically natural disasters like this, when things just don't work for a while. Of course they can't charge anything, but obviously they try....

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1 hour ago, RKoch said:

Cruz Bay USVI, as of 1230. A couple boats anchored out reported dismasted, but really can't see much.

 

Here what looked like....

Betcha' Mr. roller furling ain't no more......

Beat me to it but I see we still can't delete mis-vids. 

:mellow:

 

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east of road town tortola

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Been watching this live stream.

 

 

 

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Just now, TPG said:

east of road town tortola

Yep. I think that's the hurricane hole the charter companies use. 

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I think thats the moorings fleet from road town.

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Just now, TPG said:

I think that  thats was the moorings fleet from road town.

corrected that minor error.. :( 

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9 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Paraquita Bay. I think that's BVI.

 

image.jpg

Anyone see a Nautitech Open 40 in that pile of fiberglass?  If so, thats my deposit toast.

 

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13 minutes ago, TPG said:

I think thats the moorings fleet from road town.

Pretty glad my uncle sold it, and he's not around to see this.

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1 hour ago, Gangbusters said:

Wife was supposed to leave for Florida tonight with a return on Saturday night. No problem with cancelling plane tickets. Rental car company wanted to charge a cancellation fee. Guess they don't mind having their cars out and in the line of danger. 

I wish my girlfriend was as smart as your wife. She left for Myrtle Beach with a friend this morning. Didn't want to cancel their vacation. 

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14 minutes ago, MauganTornado said:

Anyone see a Nautitech Open 40 in that pile of fiberglass?  If so, thats my deposit toast.

 

many bottom up cats

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Any reason the non-charter boats couldn't have sailed for Barbados, Grenada, Curacao 3 days ago?

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32 minutes ago, RKoch said:

Paraquita Bay. I think that's BVI.

 

image.jpg

This is Paraquita Bay before. I guess those battleship chains laid out in a grid for moorings didn't work so well this time?

Image result for paraquita bay tortola

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I don't know how to post images, but try WindAlert to check out the one surviving wind meter on Buck Island, south of St. Thomas in the USVI. Sustained wind over 100 and gusts to 130, and it is far from the eye.

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Just now, Rasputin22 said:

That will buff right out...

Too soon?

What are the insurance companies going to do with all these things?  I mean most of them are f'ed but some of them might be salvageable right?

 

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The Moorings base in Road Town is apparently wiped out. Couldn't grab the pics.

 

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Might be two or three keepers in the pile of boats, ugh.  

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7 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

Any reason the non-charter boats couldn't have sailed for Barbados, Grenada, Curacao 3 days ago?

 

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Wow. Not even close to a good idea. The deck cleats are the weak point in that equation. First boat breaks away and suddenly the whole lot goes at once. 

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19 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I wish my girlfriend was as smart as your wife. She left for Myrtle Beach with a friend this morning. Didn't want to cancel their vacation. 

She was going down because the roof top AC unit needs repair. It might be an insurance job when this is over.

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2 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

That will buff right out...

Too soon?

 

The used charter cat market is going to be flooded...

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Private boats should have cleared out, if there were crew aboard. I think all these wrecked boats are from The Moorings. 

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6 minutes ago, MauganTornado said:

Found it :(

 

destroyedCatsNO40.jpg

I'd like to take the one in the middle please. Its not as scratched as the end ones

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2 hours ago, Snaggletooth said:

notte if you live hearre.....

+100

 

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Most of Anegada is about 10 ft elevation, max is by the airport at 24 ft. but not many structures above 12 ft or so.  Sure hope the surge didn't reach those who stayed.  Seems likely the village is gone.

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Just now, A-NU-START said:

Wow. Not even close to a good idea. The deck cleats are the weak point in that equation. First boat breaks away and suddenly the whole lot goes at once. 

Would they just tie to cleats? Most production boats only back them with washers.

I'd tie to the mast as well, and the winches and anything else that was heavily mounted.

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"Heavily Mounted" 

Clearly you haven't seen how these boats are built - or how cheaply. They'll be able to get a new fleet for the cost of a ham sandwich. 

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Paraquita was considered one of the best hurricane holes in the VI due to the extremely narrow dredged channel for access. A lot of effort had been made by the charter companies and the BVI gov't to put in the mooring system and organize the access and getting all the 'ducks in a row' as my Mama used to say. Doesn't really matter when it blows this hard, much like Ensenada Honda lost its reputation as the best hole in the Caribbean back during Hugo. Ask me how I know...

Image result for paraquita bay tortola 

Paraquita Bay aerial

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2 minutes ago, Kenny Dumas said:

Most of Anegada is about 10 ft elevation, max is by the airport at 24 ft. but not many structures above 12 ft or so.  Sure hope the surge didn't reach those who stayed.  Seems likely the village is gone.

Anegada was most likely completely underwater.

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19 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

many bottom up cats

[

 

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17 minutes ago, MauganTornado said:

Found it :(

 

destroyedCatsNO40.jpg

Deposit meaning you were buying it? or chartering?

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

And I thought Branson was a smart dude! I used to camp on that beach before he built the place and then toured the house and facilities shortly before it was finished. Good high location above surge but will take the brunt of the wind. Idiot not to have proper storm shelters. That tape is criminal. 

The tape made me laugh. I put some up before Andrew. It gave me a little extra cleaning job on the windows that survived.

Planning for the best and worst for our side of FL right now.

Went out this morning to meet contractors who were blowing insulation into a possibly-doomed house we own. I'll be glad to have it done if the house still exists next week.

Left there and went to get my dad's old generator from my brother. It hasn't run since probably 2011 or 2012. Going to go test it now.

Evac tip: when I left the house, I closed all interior doors. Just because the hurricane is in one room doesn't mean it has to blow leaf bits all over every wall and ceiling of the house. But enough from my list of things I know, but should not.

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My partial ownership at Moorings ended several years ago, and we took the cat to Grenada, but I'm wondering about the fine print and deductible on the insurance policy.  Anybody know the details?  I'm betting there is some shared pain all around.

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10 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Paraquita was considered one of the best hurricane holes in the VI due to the extremely narrow dredged channel for access. A lot of effort had been made by the charter companies and the BVI gov't to put in the mooring system and organize the access and getting all the 'ducks in a row' as my Mama used to say. Doesn't really matter when it blows this hard, much like Ensenada Honda lost its reputation as the best hole in the Caribbean back during Hugo. Ask me how I know...

Image result for paraquita bay tortola 

Paraquita Bay aerial

OK I can't resist. How do you know?

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Oh well, that last wind meter in the USVI just quit. Now on to Puerto Rico and its eastern islands.

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1 hour ago, Student_Driver said:

Been watching this live stream.

 

 

 

She said "overlooking Magens Bay."   That's the north side of St. Thomas, USVI.  The bay is long and opens to the northwest.

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36 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Paraquita was considered one of the best hurricane holes in the VI due to the extremely narrow dredged channel for access. A lot of effort had been made by the charter companies and the BVI gov't to put in the mooring system and organize the access and getting all the 'ducks in a row' as my Mama used to say. Doesn't really matter when it blows this hard, much like Ensenada Honda lost its reputation as the best hole in the Caribbean back during Hugo. Ask me how I know...

Image result for paraquita bay tortola 

Paraquita Bay aerial

A few years ago I got a good tour from a well-connected local. Couple things. The entrance was dynamited...it is very narrow. The moorings are anchored to massive chains...from a battleship or something...the chains are secured to massive blocks. The seaward side was only protected by a reef and mangroves. I was told they don't get any surge, because of the deep water all around. I suspect they get some. Most of the time it should have been ok. I have no idea what happened this time...Failure of the mooring system?...Overwhelmed by surge and waves? IDK.

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4 minutes ago, RKoch said:

 Most of the time it should have been ok. I have no idea what happened this time..IDK.

Sure you do. BIG FUCKING STORM

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That bay is protected from the north but not so much from a south wind. There is a huge amount of windage if they are rafted together. It looks like the eyewall passed over. Wind came from the north first. May have been OK. But not when the return flow from the south hit. Does insurance cover an "act of god"?

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8 minutes ago, RKoch said:

A few years ago I got a good tour from a well-connected local. Couple things. The entrance was dynamited...it is very narrow. The moorings are anchored to massive chains...from a battleship or something...the chains are secured to massive blocks. The seaward side was only protected by a reef and mangroves. I was told they don't get any surge, because of the deep water all around. I suspect they get some. Most of the time it should have been ok. I have no idea what happened this time...Failure of the mooring system?...Overwhelmed by surge and waves? IDK.

Cats have a LOT of windage and some is from UNDER the boat. I kind of got turned off to big cats for sailing in hurricanes after reading about someone in one having the experience of having the cat pretty much picked up and flipped over :o

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The trouble of chains is that you introduce failure points which failure translates into several boats in a daisy chain trashing everything around. 

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Just now, Panoramix said:

The trouble of chains is that you introduce failure points which failure translates into several boats in a daisy chain trashing everything around. 

That, and chains don't like "shockloading", You can explain that much better then me...

An anchorchain without catenary breaks too.

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Big enough chains love shockloading. They don't move. Therefore the force gets translated into the next weakest part of the equation. Which, in this case, obviously seems to be the mooring lines or mooring attachment points on the boats. 

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     The surge likely put that low mangrove spit well underwater leaving no protection. Same thing happened to me in Ensenada Honda in Culebra during Hugo. I went on deck at dawn during the passage of the eye. I was tidying up some lines that had pulled out mangrove branches during the winds from the north during the night. The windshift to the south came so suddenly and violently that I was afraid to even try to get back in the cabin. I had a mask and snorkle on and the top to my foul weather gear with a harness over. I was already sitting with my back against the inner forestay with my feet braced against the aft end of the bow pulpit hauling in the now useless lines. The big tri swung with the first wind shift and the piles of line that I had piled up on either side of me started paying back out and it was all I could do to keep my feet, hands and head out of the bights that were speeding towards chocks and the bow rollers. Once that threat was over and the lines all took up from the new direction, the wind was back up to well over hurricane strength. I had slipped a couple of times earlier int the diminished winds of the eye on glass smooth epoxy repairs in my foredeck that didn't have non-skid yet and would slide on my bare ass two or three feet until I got to the old non-skid and it was like my butt was on a cheese grater. No way I was going to chance getting back to the cockpit and into the cabin so I cleated my harness pennant to the bow cleats between my knees and rode it out like a bronco busting cowboy!

    I looked over my shoulder and there was my GF with her face pressed up against the deckhouse window pleading for me to get back inside and all I could do was shrug. I could breath pretty well through the aft angled snorkle and watched with horror as the protective reef to the SE was overrun by the rising surge. After maybe a 10 storm surge rise in 15 minutes the swell and waves just continued into the once perfect shelter of the bay. That bay was pretty deep but the rising bottom as it approached the mangrove shore to the North that I was just clear of was making the swells build like they were going to break well over my bow.  I was expecting to get crushed by a closeout wave but as the tops of the breaking waves got about even with the top of my pulpit, the wind just shattered the peaks like a big invisible weedeater. Never really took any solid water over the bow but the spume felt like gravel at 100+ knots. 

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Culebra,+Puerto+Rico/@18.2681703,-65.2807758,2333a,35y,358.69h,43.51t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8c04e8a4c12d31c1:0x4651ada69968e08c!8m2!3d18.310394!4d-65.3030705

    I was right where you see the label Seabreeze Suites in the Google Maps image linked above.

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Reports finally coming in from Barbuda. 90% of structures destroyed. 

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1 reported fatality on the island of Barbuda so far. Which, if true, would be miraculous despite the loss. 

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Surprised the folks running SA haven't blasted Trump for causing Irma.... 

That's how liberal logic works right?

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2 minutes ago, A-NU-START said:

Big enough chains love shockloading. They don't move. Therefore the force gets translated into the next weakest part of the equation. Which, in this case, obviously seems to be the mooring lines or mooring attachment points on the boats. 

Big enough = big enough, but you are probably right, it was the weakest link in the "chain" that broke, or rather the many weak links...

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1 minute ago, EddyAllTime said:

Surprised the folks running SA haven't blasted Trump for causing Irma.... 

That's how liberal logic works right?

Please fuck off to PA with that.

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

That will buff right out...

Too soon?

Was thinking the same thing.  jesus, Florida is gonna be fucked...  :mellow:

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17 minutes ago, Panoramix said:

The trouble of chains is that you introduce failure points which failure translates into several boats in a daisy chain trashing everything around. 

I doubt the chains failed....they're massive, and anchored by huge blocks.. I think Rasper is probably correct, the surge and waves topped over the protective reef and mangroves. Once the waves got to the boats, the cleats likely pulled out. That would be the weakest part of the system.

 

image.jpg

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3 minutes ago, EddyAllTime said:

Surprised the folks running SA haven't blasted Trump for causing Irma.... 

That's how liberal logic works right?

MSNBC is already reporting: it's his fault.   (just a joke KIS)

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1 hour ago, Uncooperative Tom said:

The tape made me laugh. I put some up before Andrew. It gave me a little extra cleaning job on the windows that survived.

Planning for the best and worst for our side of FL right now.

Went out this morning to meet contractors who were blowing insulation into a possibly-doomed house we own. I'll be glad to have it done if the house still exists next week.

Left there and went to get my dad's old generator from my brother. It hasn't run since probably 2011 or 2012. Going to go test it now.

Evac tip: when I left the house, I closed all interior doors. Just because the hurricane is in one room doesn't mean it has to blow leaf bits all over every wall and ceiling of the house. But enough from my list of things I know, but should not.

drive a screw through the door into jam....

 

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Just now, SailBlueH2O said:

drive a screw through the door into jam....

 

Tom's idea is a good one. Every little bit helps.

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

drive a screw through the door into jam....

 

Thought you were supposed to keep shit open as pressure will blow the whole damn thing apart instead of a couple of windows...  Maybe that's just tornadoes.  

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

Please fuck off to PA with that.

Sorry, nothing to do with PA, all with climate change, perhaps...

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41 minutes ago, RKoch said:

A few years ago I got a good tour from a well-connected local. Couple things. The entrance was dynamited...it is very narrow. The moorings are anchored to massive chains...from a battleship or something...the chains are secured to massive blocks. The seaward side was only protected by a reef and mangroves. I was told they don't get any surge, because of the deep water all around. I suspect they get some. Most of the time it should have been ok. I have no idea what happened this time...Failure of the mooring system?...Overwhelmed by surge and waves? IDK.

combined windage and collective buoyancy~~~~ chain gets lifted a tiny bit....moves a tiny bit.....repeat every wave and gust

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