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17mika

Bora gulari nacra 17 incident

24 posts in this topic

Very serious incident for bora

Edit: best source from the front page. http://sailinganarchy.com/

EDIT. I'm trying to get some more info from some moth friends.. it seems like He got cut 3 fingers (hopefully only the top part) from hitting the trailing edge of the daggerboard ina capsize

 

Hope the best for a quick recovery

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I'm so sorry to hear that! Best of luck getting past this, Bora......

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Mika,

  thank you for correcting the inaccuracy of the article: "sailboat rigging" doesn't quite equal "sharp carbon foil". I assumed it was the latter. Speedy recovery Bora.

-Sam

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My thoughts go out for Bora. I hope he can recover his fingers. 

So far I detect 2 inconsistencies from the different sources:

Did he wear full gloves and have the cut extremities remained in them so he may be lucky in the doctors can restate the fingers?

Did he impact the rigging or the trailing edge of the foil?

 

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.. and it shows the seriousness of foiling. Someone WILL be sliced in two. Mark my words.

 

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5 hours ago, pa_ubach said:

My thoughts go out for Bora. I hope he can recover his fingers. 

So far I detect 2 inconsistencies from the different sources:

Did he wear full gloves and have the cut extremities remained in them so he may be lucky in the doctors can restate the fingers?

Did he impact the rigging or the trailing edge of the foil?

 

I don't really know, few friends told me foils; source should be reliable but I'd trust more the USST on the front page.

Still it seems hard to me that rigging (I guess it cannot be less than 3mm?) is able to cut fingers at 20 knots. I can easily believe the trailing edge of a foil can, especially if Bora finishes his nacra foils the same way he does with his moth foils (blooody blades) . We'll know as some more info come; I could easily be wrong.

Most important thing seems that he is not that bad if he expect to sail again in a month :)

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I have the scars from hitting catamaran rigging in capsized. While they can bruise and even cut, slicing fingers off? I find that very very hard to believe. Sharp trailing edges? Absolutely. Years ago in an epic local distance race on Nacra I20's (think 20' floating mode N17), a team member on the lead boat got flung into the back of the daggerboard trailing edge with the board raised at speeds in excess of 20 kts. He was airlifted off the boat to the local hospital and received over 30 stitches in his leg. That is why I'm thinking this was a foil based injury and the PR spin has been applied to keep the N17 Mk. 2 class from facing more public humiliation, most of which I will say is not deserved.

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 It was not the foil. It was traveller rope wrapped around hand. 

 

Big slow down when they came off the foils and stuck the nose in. 

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20 minutes ago, macca said:

 It was not the foil. It was traveller rope wrapped around hand. 

 

Big slow down when they came off the foils and stuck the nose in. 

That mode of injury can be more damaging than a clean slice!

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1 hour ago, macca said:

 It was not the foil. It was traveller rope wrapped around hand. 

 

Big slow down when they came off the foils and stuck the nose in. 

Not good. Time to rethink how you wrap rope around the hand, which I am sure we all do. 

I have heard that the N17's crash off the foils in a very unpredictable way. Story is that you sail along foiling nicely and then the foils ventilate for now apparent reason. Don't know if this is what happened here but it doesn't sound a ideal.

The injury sounds like one of those freak things that you couldn't do again if you tried (which i don't think anybody will be doing). Tough break for Bora at a time when he should be shining. He had given up a fair bit for training in the N17. I hope he is back in action soon.

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6 hours ago, macca said:

 It was not the foil. It was traveller rope wrapped around hand. 

 

Big slow down when they came off the foils and stuck the nose in. 

Thank you Macca for the correction. That is a real problem we should all learn from.

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Truth is I was wearing gloves and they got chopped off too and I don't know what exactly happened

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I send you blessings Bora. I wish you a fast and full recovery.

 

20 hours ago, Swabbie said:

 

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On 8/31/2017 at 2:15 AM, samc99us said:

Mika,

  thank you for correcting the inaccuracy of the article: "sailboat rigging" doesn't quite equal "sharp carbon foil". I assumed it was the latter. Speedy recovery Bora.

-Sam

 

 

Bora told me it was the traveler line, but he is still a little foggy and groggy and jacked up on pain pills.  

I'll be going to visit him when I get home from the 49er worlds, and we'll talk about the whole thing so I can share it with you guys and his many fans around the world. 

Short update is: He is good mentally, in some pain physically, and still has "most of four fingers".  Bora expects to be back on the water as soon as possible, and is confident he'll be able to cope with the loss of those bits.

Italian coach said it was the foil that cut his hand, but that was also an assumption.  The nature of the wounds was not really consistent with that type of cut, but as I said Bora is still quite fuzzy about it all and we're all hoping to find out if there's any coach video showing exactly what happened.  Bora doesn't want to watch it if there is, but he sure does want to know exactly what happened so he can prevent it in the future.  My suggestion was something I used to use when I was diving for sea urchin and lobster, but if it was indeed line than this wouldn't really be relevant.  Regardless, kevlar is going to be everyone's friend on these boats.

https://dipndive.com/akona-bug-hunter-gloves.html

 

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Traveller car trapping glove?  The only thing I could think of on the boat that could do that.

Get well Bora.

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The problem with accidents like this is that they are freak accidents and it wouldn't surprise me if you could go another 50 years with N17's and never see the same thing happen again. I also don't think it is just N17's that are potentially dangerous. Any foiling boat that is travelling in excess of 22-25 knots has the potential to bite. the question is just how many precautions do you take, and even if you take all you can think of, it's always something nobody has though of that will get you. Short of full armour, there is always a risk of injury. It seems to me that a full wetsuit, a good helmet, eye protection and gloves are the minimum. After that i would go for a body armour PFD such as the Forward sailing one and maybe Foreward WIP padding, there gets to be a point of diminishing returns.

All the best to Bora for a speedy recovery. I know from personal experience how unsettling freak accidents can be and he is doing well not to want to dwell on it. I hope he is back on the water quickly. 

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good luck on the rehab, tough break.

Knew a girl who had her finger tip nipped off by her bodyboard leash in a big wipeout.

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Clean, thanks for following up on this.  Bora may have had the skin pulled off his fingers by the wrap of traveller sheet.  This could just as well happen with the mainsheet wrapped around your hand, in a violent capsize. I think they call it after "debridement" with burned skin. Following from a skin graft article... "Any skin graft must be protected from further trauma, such as being hit, or heavy stretching for at least 2 to 3 weeks".  Nobody needs this traumatic damage.

Owie.  This is not just a blister.  This is a serious injury, probaby much worse than when Randy Smyth got a nasty antibiotic-resistant skin infection from a rope burn on his leg halfway thru the 1998(?) Worrell 1000, winning the race and going straight to the hospital for IV drug treatment.  Kevlar gloves here we come!   My $3 Harbor Freight black rubber gloves are good for ??? 

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A very well known coach had the same injury this spring. Had a thin dyneema bowline wrapped around his fingers, bow of the coach boat went one way, bow of the sailboat went the other. Pretty violent force in opposite directions.   

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Best wishes for your speedy recovery Bora, and thanks for posting here where you and Helena have many fans and supporters.

Regarding Nacra 17 foil trailing edges, I cut my wetsuit boot pretty badly on one of the previous generation ones. I could see cutting your skin pretty badly in the right crash but it's hard to imagine how the forces would work to get you to what happened to Bora. Having said that, I think this is yet another reason it's great the new foils stay down as the helm can't hit the boards from the trailing side in big deceleration.

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On 9/1/2017 at 2:54 AM, bgulari said:

Truth is I was wearing gloves and they got chopped off too and I don't know what exactly happened

Jeez! Back up and typing already!

 

Kick butt, man

 

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Thanks bora and clean for the clarifications. Get well soon :)

Michele

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