• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
barfy

AC 36 Protocol

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

So you put TJ and AR at the same level at AC 35 ? that is not what said a few post ago.

And you put TNZ at the same level as LR in AC 34 ? both losers.

Stop having two standards depending of the context.

Yes, ETNZ and LR had the same result in AC34, they both lost. AR and TJ both lost, so yes, same result. Thats all that matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, sclarke said:

OR is a cheat and ETNZ are winners. Cemented in AC history forever. 

OR are cheats, but they are also winners.  Same with ETNZ.  They are winners, no doubt, but they also gave us, arguably, the biggest choke in sports history.  

So which is worse, being a cheat or a choker?  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

 

excluding the lead pellets in the AC45's which proved to have similar performance gain as a crew member sitting forward 10cm,

when did they cheat?

Well the lead pellet fiasco made them cheats.  Whether the lead pellets proved worth it or not OR still got a -2 penalty for the Cup match because of it.  No erasing that blight from OR's legacy.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, WetHog said:

OR are cheats, but they are also winners.  Same with ETNZ.  They are winners, no doubt, but they also gave us, arguably, the biggest choke in sports history.  

So which is worse, being a cheat or a choker?  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Do you really need to ask that? You can redeem yourself from being a choker. But you can not redeem yourself from being a cheat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sclarke said:

Do you really need to ask that? You can redeem yourself from being a choker. But you can not redeem yourself from being a cheat.

Sure you can.  One example being when the cheating offense is arguably dubious, the penalty for cheating a bit to harsh and the convicted cheater over comes the harsh penalty for the dubious offense by winning a major championship while overcoming not only the harsh penalty for the dubious offense but an 8-1 deficit with its challenger on championship point.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Sure you can.  One example being when the cheating offense is arguably dubious, the penalty for cheating a bit to harsh and the convicted cheater over comes the harsh penalty for the dubious offense by winning a major championship while overcoming not only the harsh penalty for the dubious offense but an 8-1 deficit with its challenger on championship point.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Ah...the old cheating offense is arguably dubious defense haha, wouldn't be the first time a cheat would try that defense! But wait, there's more! the penalty for cheating was also a bit to harsh lol. I guess those in the Sydney Hobart thread would know all about that by now. And its funny how its just the one 8-1 deficit you people like to go on about, while conveniently leaving out the most recent 8-1 scoreline. Yes, they may have executed a dubious (I guess we can both use that word now) comeback from an 8-1 deficit, but they also lost by a not so dubious 8-1 demolition. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, MR PLOW 270 said:

thought not mate hahaha:D

Not my fault if you're too lazy to use the search function maaaate:blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Ah...the old cheating offense is arguably dubious defense haha, wouldn't be the first time a cheat would try that defense! But wait, there's more! the penalty for cheating was also a bit to harsh lol. I guess those in the Sydney Hobart thread would know all about that by now. And its funny how its just the one 8-1 deficit you people like to go on about, while conveniently leaving out the most recent 8-1 scoreline. Yes, they may have executed a dubious (I guess we can both use that word now) comeback from an 8-1 deficit, but they also lost by a not so dubious 8-1 demolition. 

It's the Trumpanzee monkey-see/monkey-do defence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WetHog said:

One example being when the cheating offense is arguably dubious, the penalty for cheating a bit to harsh

There is no non-cheating excuse for what Orifice did.

The delicious irony of the whole thing is that Orifice broke with the historic practice by having ACWS, CSS & AC all under the same Jury -> the Jury were obliged to treat cheating in ACWS with exactly the same seriousness as if it was in the AC match itself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, WetHog said:

OR are cheats, but they are also winners.  Same with ETNZ.  They are winners, no doubt, but they also gave us, arguably, the biggest choke in sports history.  

So which is worse, being a cheat or a choker?  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

The Falcons arguably relieved them of that tag last February.  28-3 will forever be difficult to top

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hoom said:

There is no non-cheating excuse for what Orifice did.

The delicious irony of the whole thing is that Orifice broke with the historic practice by having ACWS, CSS & AC all under the same Jury -> the Jury were obliged to treat cheating in ACWS with exactly the same seriousness as if it was in the AC match itself.

Which would anyone rather be known for - being accused of "choking" after being cheated out of the AC, or going through life a convicted cheat? No contest really...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, animeproblem said:

Now I remember why I stopped visiting this part of the forum, back to VOR for this one.

We're so much more enlightened reading that !! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Indio said:

Not my fault if you're too lazy to use the search function maaaate:blink:

I've had a good look hey, haven't found any explanations, if you could link one that would be cool

if not, i'm sure you've memorised the speech by now

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, sclarke said:

Ah...the old cheating offense is arguably dubious defense haha, wouldn't be the first time a cheat would try that defense! But wait, there's more! the penalty for cheating was also a bit to harsh lol. I guess those in the Sydney Hobart thread would know all about that by now. And its funny how its just the one 8-1 deficit you people like to go on about, while conveniently leaving out the most recent 8-1 scoreline. Yes, they may have executed a dubious (I guess we can both use that word now) comeback from an 8-1 deficit, but they also lost by a not so dubious 8-1 demolition. 

Are you calling me a cheat?  If so go fuck yourself.

Having said that, OR are cheats.  I've said it.  Does the punishment fit the crime?  That is debatable.  And I haven't forgotten about the most recent win by ETNZ and the margin of victory.  So what?  It was a well earned win by ETNZ.  It also illustrates how hard it is to defend the Cup a 2nd time.  ETNZ knows that 1st hand as well.  At least OR didn't get swept, their  wing snap in half or their boat almost sink.  ;) 

Ultimately, I haven't been an OR fan going on 4, maybe 5, years.  They got shady with rules and they took the Cup defense outside the US and I couldn't support a team that did that shit.  Depending on how things shake out for AC36 I wonder if ETNZ fan boys like you will have the stones to do the same.  I doubt it.

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ezyb said:

The Falcons arguably relieved them of that tag last February.  28-3 will forever be difficult to top

I said arguably and it can still be argued.  Combacks like that have happened in football before.  Not in the super bowl but in playoffs and regular season.  A comeback like OR's in sailing with the boats they were using, a gnarly venue and the level of competition in ETNZ?  Maybe if it was NE that was ahead 28-3 and Atlanta came back to win...  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WetHog said:

Are you calling me a cheat?  If so go fuck yourself.

Having said that, OR are cheats.  I've said it.  Does the punishment fit the crime?  That is debatable.  And I haven't forgotten about the most recent win by ETNZ and the margin of victory.  So what?  It was a well earned win by ETNZ.  It also illustrates how hard it is to defend the Cup a 2nd time.  ETNZ knows that 1st hand as well.  At least OR didn't get swept, their  wing snap in half or their boat almost sink.  ;) 

Ultimately, I haven't been an OR fan going on 4, maybe 5, years.  They got shady with rules and they took the Cup defense outside the US and I couldn't support a team that did that shit.  Depending on how things shake out for AC36 I wonder if ETNZ fan boys like you will have the stones to do the same.  I doubt it.

WetHog  :ph34r:

This ETNZ fan girl is already highly irritated...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Try this

I feel for you guys and gals over there; but be ensured, we're kind of affected too - like the rest of the world.

I wouldn't compare me with that gorilla lover in the WH, but of course we fans have an idea about how the AC should look like. This is mostly based on the vision "our" team had communicated before, while it was a challenger. If that team becomes the defender and does not act like it had stated, it's normal that the fans become irritated or even frustrated . I hope this won't happen to me again

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Rennmaus said:

I wouldn't compare me with that gorilla lover in the WH, but of course we fans have an idea about how the AC should look like. This is mostly based on the vision "our" team had communicated before, while it was a challenger. If that team becomes the defender and does not act like it had stated, it's normal that the fans become irritated or even frustrated . I hope this won't happen to me again

While the ETNZ/LR relationship looks a little incestuous, I'm good with pretty much all of the Protocol, the ACWS, and the JC75 including the coming OD parts of it.

ps: that excerpt went viral but is fake, of course.. and thank God..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Rennmaus said:

This ETNZ fan girl is already highly irritated...

Renny, I wouldn't consider you a fanboy, or girl, you are a rational/open minded person.  :)

WetHog  :ph34r:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

If you are feeling irritated then try what is in this book excerpt.

ugh you know that is a joke right? {edit - just saw your note above}

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/4/2018 at 12:27 PM, WetHog said:

Sure you can.  One example being when the cheating offense is arguably dubious, the penalty for cheating a bit to harsh and the convicted cheater over comes the harsh penalty for the dubious offense by winning a major championship while overcoming not only the harsh penalty for the dubious offense but an 8-1 deficit with its challenger on championship point.  ;)

WetHog  :ph34r:

That was so Jack Sparrowish that I actually read it in Johnny Depps voice! 

Now I will have that stuck in my head when I read your posts!

 

Gaaa!

 

;)

 

WL

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.sail-world.com/news/201692/Five-Olympic-classes-recommended-for-Review

Turning then to cries for females to be crewing in the America's Cup with the VOR Quota system being pushed as the way forward, isn't the real issue that until a female skipper wins an Olympic Gold Medal in open competition, female sailors will not feature on an America's Cup crew shopping list.

Looking at the situation through a different lens, what if Gemma Jones had won the Gold Medal in the Nacra 17 in 2016, in a part foiler? Or does so in 2020 in a full foiler - would she be looked at seriously as a potential America's Cup helm? Definitely. And the same for other helms of her ilk who win Olympic medals in the foiling classes.

The article is mainly not about AC but makes an interesting point about introducing female sailors. I still think that sailors on board America cup's boats should be selected based on their performance and abilities but it would be nice to have mixed crews and it would probably inspire girls to join sailing as well at lower levels. It might be a bit more accessible for the next cycles if they are progressively getting rid of grinders/cyclors where raw muscular capabilities are more important than sailings. not sure it would happen though.

I also have mixed feelings about VOR quota system and teams being allowed to have an extra feminine crew. It is like allowing a guest on board to help with the ballast, not sure they would have critical jobs on the boat. Would still help them to acquire valuable experience...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

No rule, no team, nothing is moving, what's going on ?

Plenty is going on. Negotiations are going on to decide where the bases are going on the Auckland Waterfront, ETNZ has crew members competing in the Volvo Race who are on their way to Auckland as we speak. Ashby has signed back with the team, and won the first Super foiler regatta, and their first boat design should be completed by August, Luna Rossa are locating to their AC Base in Italy and are training in their TP52, LR BAR have hired key staff in critical positions and are training on their TP52 with the help of Tony Langley and his Gladiator team, NYYC have had a keynote presentation and announced their intentions going into the next couple of years to train US based sailors as well as announcing Dean Barker as their helmsman for the 2018 season, Apparently the Aussie team has come to a screeching halt,  apparently due to Slingsby's inability to raise enough money (or convince those Supermaxi bosses to work together) and the Americas Cup will be held in 2021. The protocol is out and the class rule is due in about a months time. Penty going on if you look around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Plenty is going on. Negotiations are going on to decide where the bases are going on the Auckland Waterfront, ETNZ has crew members competing in the Volvo Race who are on their way to Auckland as we speak. Ashby has signed back with the team, and won the first Super foiler regatta, and their first boat design should be completed by August, Luna Rossa are locating to their AC Base in Italy and are training in their TP52, LR BAR have hired key staff in critical positions and are training on their TP52 with the help of Tony Langley and his Gladiator team, NYYC have had a keynote presentation and announced their intentions going into the next couple of years to train US based sailors as well as announcing Dean Barker as their helmsman for the 2018 season, Apparently the Aussie team has come to a screeching halt,  apparently due to Slingsby's inability to raise enough money (or convince those Supermaxi bosses to work together) and the Americas Cup will be held in 2021. The protocol is out and the class rule is due in about a months time. Penty going on if you look around.

Very remotely AC related. Have we already seen such a uninteresting AC at this point yet ? Even for you it seems that you only care about last ACs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Very remotely AC related. Have we already seen such a uninteresting AC at this point yet ? Even for you it seems that you only care about last ACs.

Its all AC related, and Americas Cup 36 related. Americas Cup AC team members in the Volvo (Burling, Tuke, Langford)as well as the Superfoiler series (Ashby, Outteridge and Jensen) AC teams in the 52 Super series (Luna Rossa and Land Rover BAR). Negotiations for an AC village in Auckland an AC 36 Protocol announcement and imminent class rule release. Its all very interesting. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Very remotely AC related. Have we already seen such a uninteresting AC at this point yet ? Even for you it seems that you only care about last ACs.

Yes, the last two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Tornado-Cat said:

No rule, no team, nothing is moving, what's going on ?

Name one cup where the first year between cycles was bustling with action? Name one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Name one cup where the first year between cycles was bustling with action? Name one.

Just to name one, AC 34.

Oct 15, 2010 Class Rule for New AC72 Yachts Published (was Sep 30)
Nov 1, 2010 Challenge acceptance period begins  
Dec 31, 2010 Deadline for Venue Selection and announcing dates of 2013 America's Cup Defense & Challenger and Defender Selection Series  
2011
Mar 31, 2011 Early Challenge acceptance period ends - Late entries possible  
Aug 6-14, 2011 America's Cup World Series Regatta - Cascais, Portug

So, aside from the Volvo, what is interesting ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now